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44. Light Sleeper (1992)


Pulls up your none of switching uh-huh. Oh i gave a little more background and traitor yeah okay. We're recording e think so okay so i'll do the podcast intro great hey welcome to full cast and crew which is a podcast that chooses a film goes down the rabbit hole of its i._m._d._b. Full cast and crew page mining for surprising appearances unlikely connections weird trivia strange quotes fractured takes and quirky off kilter digression <music> full stop full stop. You're going to add all this seamless absolutely lately or you or you could leave this part people like that apprise me that behind the scenes story breath well brechin or behind the scenes. It depends on your level of intellectual model. Wanna say pretension but i'm sophistication sophistication. That's right. That's more accurate no anyway. Go ahead <hes> <hes> this week. We're talking about <hes> this week. We're talking about a light sleeper. Paul schrader brilliant study of alienated urban denizens skirting the borderline of madness madness starring willem dafoe as john latour a rich upscale drug dealer for manhattan professionals when his boss and susan sarandon tells john on that she is planning to abandon the drug business for herbal cosmetics sort of a lateral move john's life is thrown into disarray coincidentally he runs into marianne dana delany an old girlfriend and former addict who has returned to new york to be with her dying mother when the murder of an upper west side woman involved in a drug transaction has the police scouring the town for suspects john thinks they are following him and the strain upon his life and his hopes for the future become harder and harder to bear schrader raider of course is the writer and director of such films as taxi driver blue-collar raging bull the last temptation of christ affliction bringing out the dead and the recent. I performed starring ethan. Hawke light sleeper has been rated eighty nine percent fresh on rotten tomatoes through that in just to encourage people to watch them which they have some. Should i just thought it was <hes> reacting to your note. You have underneath that maybe and there are those are my personal notes into those. It'll come although actually that note. I came to disagree disagree with my own note somewhat. We'll get there okay so anyway jason. Yes crafts you think well. I mean you're. This is the first if you've ever seen this movie. This is the first time between <hes> well. We should probably start with you because i've seen this movie many many times i remember when it came out because <hes> i think willem dafoe was still relatively young actor. I'd seen him in something else so when i saw like oh he's going to be leading this thing. I was like all the intriguing then just sort of missed. It never an i i loved it. I've seen a lot of posters working since then. He's such a strange. Filmmaker is and this is such a weird time. I'm in new york capturing and willem dafoe as a as a leading man is always so he's such a character ernie brings that to his lead roles. I totally agree about him. As a lead actor performer it's almost weird off-putting which i guess is the point schrader has said that this is his third man in a room movie with taxi driver travis bickel and <hes> american gigolo <hes> so the three of them are sort of of a piece for schrader in which i can see ya. These disaffected alienated men who hate their jobs interestingly. They all have that in common in their own way <hes> <hes> it's it's. It's such a strange movie like you said it captures this part of new york and also to me. It captures nothing. I'm an expert expert on the drug culture or drug dealing but it's so specific in capturing this character and defo's character for people who i haven't seen the movie is a drug dealer. One of the descriptions i saw online that i thought was so apt was <hes> defoe said he played a drug dealer who sold white drugs for white. People well jeff. I was so apt yet because it's all the bullshit of oh yeah. We're selling in using drugs but not really we're having fun. We're the fancy antsy. People were the beautiful people but really you're just drug addicts and users in drug dealers one of the things that i love about trader and also can be maddening maddening. I guess the specificity of of these these moments. There's so many moments where latour defo's character is is doing a drug deal in an supposedly supposedly fancy nightclub thinking the one where he goes and meets two girls in a nightclub and he's just making small talk after he does the transaction and he says so. Where's the so what's on for tonight kind kinda. He's so desperate for connection. He's kind of a little bit trying to invite himself along to this evening with these two girls and the way the actor doesn't show well she kind of just goes oh oh just party and it's like awkward silence and he takes his cue and he gets up and leaves like they don't want you around to deliver the product and go and there's so many times that's where that happens whether it's t's victor garber character kind of putting his arm and i just shoving them out the door and his whole the whole movie he's looking looking for this acceptance in connection which of course he never gets in trouble ironically the very you're absolutely right that it is such a strange specific kind of thing and here he is so disaffected but there is part. It also seems to be right for the job. Yeah in the center of you know the one of the first things you seem actual deal in the hand camaraderie so that they can find exempts to shake hands and and push the stuff that layer of it just makes it more interesting that he's probably unsure of how much how much of it is the put on that the job nerve versus his own real feelings and he seems to be so disconnected for yes his real taste like when the cop confronts him at the laundromat and sort it makes fun of his scarf and his silly glasses and his jacket downtown interested how a nineteen year old bonnard honor student fancy parents got a quarter uncut kolkata which is found murdered the temperature would find crews in alphabet city looking at school. You know what i'm saying. Somebody sold her. Somebody upscale. Somebody classy y'all classy so here. Maybe somebody knows something. We need to know understand boy. It's such a great scene because you're doing your laundry in a dingy rundown laundromat yet he's wearing the scarf and his bullshit tinted glasses and his leather jacket and the cop is just so dismissive of him in a way that show true to this approach to i i think nightlife in general and eighties early nineties nightlife like this is what ninety two so you say like when you say the seventies or the eighties of the nineties. It doesn't really mean in that. It's like the agents weren't really over yet by ninety two. It's still kind of looks and feels like the eighties yeah yeah. This is sort of the twilight. Twilight is the end of it. The party's over you're for everybody's over yeah. There's a lot of similarities between this and saturday night fever work and it was sort of interesting that the you know it's fifteen years difference but it does feel like ones the end end of one decade ones the end of a different decade end in in this. It's at a strange point. There's so many representations of new york during the battle as sort of taking a pelham one-two-three onto three taxi driver era of as hell scape and then you have this sort of sex and the city of new york as metropolis and cool and this seems to be somewhere in schick very finite window of time just between those two things at the drug dealer he has. He has a beeper. No cell phone cell phone. It uses still uses the payphones phones. Yep you know people are taking. Here's another weird thing about this drug dealer. He takes a towncar classy classy. Yeah here's another thing i liked about that speaking of the towncar a research into it but at the very end of the movie after he witnesses witnesses the suicide slash murder of his ex yeah life quote unquote because they weren't really married he gets into the back of the town car and the driver is referring to him really formally even though he's the only person we've ever seen driving john latour around and you get the impression early on the movie that this guy i i sort of thought until that that the limo driver was like an employee susan sarandon's character and he was the guy who always drove. This guy knew exactly what was going on but he he speaks so formally tiller tour. Where would you like me to go sir. Would you know like wait right here for mitt here. Sir you wanna wait here sir. They don't even know each other and it's just a little thing which i think given the specificity of schrader like all of these little collective things add up to this kind of overwhelming sense it's of disconnection that exists throughout the entire movie pertaining to this character who even though he's in and among people he's totally and utterly alone yes and it's he's unable unable to make connections with people that are trying to make connections with him so the susan's character and the other guy who's great. I can't remember his name name clemen or david clinton they. They have a togetherness like. I don't feel that they're alone in this world. Even though there's a loneliness kind of attached to both of them they have each other and they're going into the the cosmetics narcotics business going to the cosmetics business together and he's not a part of it. He hasn't been asked yet and then when she does ask. It's a little she doesn't really want him to come along into the cosmetics business though it's it's a question to me like how much of this is nobody wants him or how much of this he's putting out sort of a vibe that that pushes people away he is an odd and real specific character besides the specificity of this kind kind of drug dealing and and just to backtrack a little bit <hes> you know not only do they sell these sort of white drugs to white people. He's not rich you you know he. He's complaining. Money's nothing exactly so he has to put on these airs so he can blend into this world enough to do his business right but never enough to to actually make a change in his life and in the same way i think there's a similar dynamic between the way he deals with the two other people in drug dealing business we and and i i'm robert robert between annan robert though they are really nice to him and <hes> they do seem to be sincere and he he reacts oddly in places like all of that that struggle for connection. This isn't about gosh. The the world is so horrible able in disconnected. This guy is a specific character who has who has his own problems which are leading him to have trouble connecting with people but at the same time <hes> makes him able to move between those things so that's one thing that i really appreciate about this movie that it doesn't allow the character any sort of like every man kind of out to make him sympathetic boxes him in. I mean boxes himself. I was struck watching you this time how little he shares with annan robert about what's what's actually going on. I mean he's traumatic. Things are happening to him yeah. He his ex wife's mother died who who you feel there was a real closeness there at one point although ironically -ironically the closeness is represented as having existed both kind of only in latour's mind but then also kind of in reality like there is something something about when the sister says when jane addams who's amazing <hes> when jane addams says you know she always loved you john like you feel that it's real absolutely yeah but at the same time in the scenes with dana delany you also get the idea that this kind of was a destructive eruptive mutually destructive relationship which wasn't really grounded in anything real says her you know he's still feel it but i mean he's crazy. He pulled up up with a boombox re records her her name a hotel answer all service like you haven't. It's not presented the most balanced relationship. That's a little too seriously. She is hardly a <hes> a reliable narrator she interest amid suicide and or <hes> well absolutely and i think the drug problem that he had might also have times ad and or has he still still in recovery <hes>. He's got his problems but sort of so is she is all that i'm saying that i that. I don't think that he is delusional. She might be at times as well and might be more more. You know they have that great scene in the hospital whereas it wasn't all bad and she saying it was anything you married. You got kids a dog house plant which nothing details just open the door. Open the door to what i mean. It's not ethnic. Were strangers. After we married we were not serramonte. It wasn't even a minister he was he was he was also a minister of the church of universal harmony. Europae was not legally jeanne dixon. Mary was on the cusp. We're happy we are miserable. We were either scoring coming down mostly coming now. We had good times area. I don the street dancing with friends. We were magical for three months of that telling me and called once. That's how magical we where. I'm not saying that she is. I really don't mean to say that she star. I'm just saying that there well is flawed but he is not terrible either because again jane adams's character seemed like hi kim. Everybody seems to enjoy getting along with him to to a degree but at that scene in the hospital and i talk about that president because it's got that amazing framing yeah where in the scene is there. He's finally persuaded her with great reluctance on her part to come down and sit with them and have a conversation. They're having a conversation and trader frames at brilliantly brilliantly with a pillar literally between them and they're sitting in chairs with this barrier between the two of them. Schreyer's light touch is always appreciated and all it's it's also when they have the love scene and there's the the angel photo over the bed. I don't know what that painting is. It's probably some significance. Maybe you know that's more either. I think it's also paul schrader just his head's always in but that scene okay the dialogue is so good and i actually rewound this movie in a couple of places. I'm using the term rewind for you. Millennials is listening. That's what you used to do when you have moving on v._h._s. I actually i don't know what you call. It on. A stream is it. Rewinding is going back. What do they say ah go back. You don't say do back so i went back and this is one of the scenes because that scene latour is holding her hand. She's kind of melted a little bit. She's she's she's she's. She's a little bit with him. In this reminiscence and he goes we were in love and she goes yeah then. He says we were happy. She doesn't answer and i i actually on all the scenes with the two of them. I was on her side. I was like get away from this guy. You're you made the right choice. You however tenuously got to the other side. You have your life together. This guy is going nowhere and he's going to drag you back in and which is exactly what happens if you let him into your life again and she's right about that and and and so i'm just curious because it sounds like we have two different takes on this which is interesting. I think when i was always rooting for her to stay the hell away from this guy yeah. That sounds like you weren't. I wasn't i guess it's because we're seeing it from from his point of view and he seems to have it together like i. I never bought busy lives in an apartment with no furniture. So what does he have together. Tell me where you see him together -gether. That's what i'm curious about like together in this guy's life he keeps a journal. That's very okay right out the window but okay all thank you paul sater's light touch the very idea that they have a garbage strike going on the whole time so good good you see people like digging trash back to throw things away you just have to throw it out the window and it's in the isle of garbage with everything else when she fall yeah well how 'bout when she when she falls or is pushed. She's just another piece of garbage are behind the street. I mean he has the heaviest of touches but it's somehow works for me until the end of the movie but but it but it works the couple of other things if i just question of why i think i'm a little bit we mostly because you're seeing it from his point of view. No he obviously has his problems but he he but that's like saying you're seeing taxi driver from travis bickel's point of view on your sympathetic to his his experience mania when he when he it does bad things you shouldn't have done that. I was on your side now working. Yeah okay so you with here with john latour then you're all your team latour. I absolutely for him to succeed. I want him to ask anybody who so desperately goes to a psychic and like that also was i look at you and i give you my impressions. I feel your vibrations. I hate that word sounds so phony. Doesn't i can't think of anything better. You're anxious more than usual here. Livelihood is endangered. He worried about the future. You don't have much money saved. I see a woman who has betrayed you my mother well. She was paul schrader wife. I know yeah mary beth author and every about her. She was so good in to throw away scenes almost anybody else she really imbued them with something really really deep and cool i thought but he is so i see him desperate and struggling the whole time and i want somebody who's desperate and struggling to succeed over their own demon totally agree however for i want someone who's desperate and struggling to take active steps to succeed over there demons and he's not doing that. That's that he's not using but he's drinking and i guess bits. He's he's honest about well. I don't know if he's honest in a dishonest moment. She says he says to her clean. She goes. Let me see your eyes so he looks at is she goes something like is can be deceiving or something and she and then his beeper goes off and she's like oh okay. I'm dealing a little. I'm but i'm not using he's he's. He's actually lying until he's called hauled out ever tells the truth when he has to rain so hey who doesn't right full cast and crew is brought to you by the award winning comedy series philly court. It's like a fake judge judy but if way more of the cases involved percocet and illegal fireworks philly court season season two premiering now on facebook just like in follow chuckle or comedy on facebook for the latest episodes philly did not actually win any awards my dude but the guys in phoenix also except for brian right well. She's fucking bump heads anyways and i'm gonna beat his ass deeds all those things because we're seeing it from his point of view and we do see him they do i. I'm under no impression that he's an angel or anything anything. She'll get up in his bed the boombox playing her her saying her name over and over again. Are you moved by that or are you horrified by that. I sort of move. I feel bad for the guy hi 'cause we. We've spoken before. Here's somebody who's desperate for connection. Yes and i'm ashamed to say that i simply of known enough of these people huila when they're desperate for connection the more desperate you get the more difficult it becomes jamaica connection because every opportunity feels almost like it's your last one and so therefore in order to try to make it you make that connection in a way that sort of so harsh so strange that it's more off putting than anything else putting you further down where you were so that's the thing that i saw happening with him and with dana delaney's character on shoes phantom. I've china beach earning. I knew her name. I've only heard her in late lois lane and a lot of super mayor cartoons toons cartoons yeah she does so she's i can totally see that yes oh my god. Her distrust is not unwarranted. Yes but i still feel bad because again we're seeing it from his point of view so i'm rooting for him and wanting him and also understanding why he is doing things that have the opposite effect of what he wants to that. She has her own set of problems. Your sister even admits like she's been on drugs. She was lying to this. It's not like her mother is so therefore she yeah roker straps. I take cain adams in that scene a little bit enabling of john latour. She's a little bit kinda like obviously whatever happened in this these two sisters family. They had some poor choices that were made. I'm not sure in terms of their choice of of of men given what dana delany dan since nineteen ninety two different air however i'm reminded of my good friend chris campion had had a statement that john latour reminded me. Chris used to always say i always wanted to be judged on my intentions not my actions so our john look in. This movie is someone who always wants to be judged on his intentions. Which of course he never overtly states because he can't he can't communicate in a fundamental way. I mean when he shows up at the mother's funeral like like the funeral parlor like he shouldn't go there and i thought the scene with jane addams was so so well done. We're she's like john. You shouldn't have come and the way she is with him and that pause. There's a incredible pause in the scene. I'm trying to see if i made a note about it because i wanted to to really really kinda hammered here. It's like when when she is out on the street in front of the funeral home with him after dana delany has freaked out and like get out of my life you know when he says to her. I saw your mother and she surprised because remember remember. He came into housewarming. Jane addams was sleeping the chair so she has no idea that he came in. There is such a weird expression on her face. Which at first i thought was its structure is really creepy that he came into the room and saw their mother without waking her of course we know that's when dana delany saw him and sees him reaching for the toe of the the mother and the hospital bed and she's moved and she lets him back in and they go and they sleep together. She wakes up and she's like that was. I'm glad it happened but i don't call me. You don't see me. She cuts it off right. Jane addams faces kind of amazing in the scene where she's confronting him and saying you were and he's like yeah you were asleep. She looked freaked out and she gets in as quickly as possible and gets away from him and i wasn't sure she's putting together that that's why dana delany wasn't present at the moment. The mother passed away more whether she's just it's an additional layer of john latour creeping people out because of his intentions but he's completely. He's completely blundering into one bad thing after another that he has no business being a part of yeah yeah so. I didn't know what what jane addams was meant to a. B. i. cassandra representing struck you in that moment i thought it was interesting at the time <hes> it just seemed like more that she was sort of freaked out or sort of as with like you said if she enables her sister and enables john. I would think when you're enabling somebody like that. You have to edit your own memory in the same way that <hes> that <hes> dana delaney's character accuses john of anything. Jane probably did winks at certain. Things pretends she doesn't certain things and then when she is confronted with something that happened without her knowing it might have shown to her like oh. I've been kind of <hes> lying to myself about yeah. You are and maybe what about who says yeah. It hadn't struck me that moment yes that she missed it because they were having having sex maybe yeah and that she felt i felt it was it was it was the younger sister who probably always had a crush on her older sister's boyfriend slash husband and thinking he was cool and and then realizing in this moment he not only is he sort of not cool but because it comes on the heels of her seeing him being so startled and sort so like johnny shouldn't have come like the way she says the line to me he obviously shouldn't have just shown up at the funeral home like based on <unk> how it ended between him and dana delany. He knows he's he should know. He's not welcome there this. This is why i think dana's laney's mother his. I don't know schrader raiders history with this stuff. I don't know enough about him to know but the movie to me is really really smart about addiction and it's really really smart about drug culture and it's really really smart about the ways that people who are addicts and or recovered people manage and process their emotions. It's really smart in a way that i think he must either have some personal experience within or in his research for this which i read a little bit about how he would send. I think he sent defoe out on some drug drug deals with a a sit well with a drug dealer who who handled a similar clientele but he got all those details so right and the emotional journey is all right again up until until the end i just it's like the movie falls off a cliff in the last ten minutes a everything up till him and serandon knocking on hotel door after after that it it just gets so silly to me the shootout where like you know now we're all shooting each other and then the prison scene is well done like it's active really well between the two of them. It's just so weird like his. The final moment of connection he's been waiting for the whole movie is when he's incarcerated unlike a triple homicide that then he can connect to her then he's like he's burt he so loose free in a way we haven't seen him. He looks at he's at ease. He's he's comfortable in jail now. There's a part of that. That's really true. I think to addiction or recovery in a way and i think that the character is being really truthful to where the characters coming from in that like he's relieved. I think even says it was a relief actually <hes> because he's in a place now where where he's in prison that's where he wants to be. It's the same thing he was in prison in his apartment. He was just free to come and go from the prison now. He's in the prison and it's even more confined and the rules or even more clear-cut and he actually think he likes exit. One hundred percent this is not a unique kicking the frustrate now for emphasis yeah but this is not a unique ending like i was reading that particularly one of schroeder's favorite movies brisson pickpocket also ends it ends with the guy in prison guy in prison similar similar happy to be there. I'd have to know what the yeah pretty much. I don't remember well enough. The amount of detail whether there's the <hes> hope of a future that this kind of lays out certainly <hes> certainly he is there and he feels once he has had this this some identifying characteristic visiting he can no longer be a pickpocket once. He's this thing that had defined him but also hemmed him in was once it was taken away his he's going to be himself right to sort of grow grow again and i get the impression named that's that's the vibe we're getting here and i think that's also if you've ever seen american gigolo. That's that's very much the the same thing gigolo he's incarcerated and but free he's out of the life one of the things that i disliked though about the i mean it's well like yeah well written there or something. Maybe this is just twenty some odd years later looking at the gender dynamics the idea that he and susan sarandon would have some kind of romantic connection action connection seem really shoehorned in they made a connection. I just wish it was it's a- and well because she has a certain kind of growth and the fact that they talk about <hes> robert robert robert thought he could take the business over returns to the drug dealer returns to drug dealing the fact that they years another theme in the movie that i liked so much and that was also i think similar to saturday night fever in the sense of like getting old and move moulder and moving from one stage of life to another and hear them talk about like ten fifteen years ago when we were all doing drugs and having this sort of nostalgic element but then to find themselves. There's still in this life kind of wanted to get out and realizing they've stayed a little bit too long. I really i thought this i mean that's not like a totally new theme theme but to put put it in this context and the way that they dealt with it was and having it so just sort of more of their their life constant thing i i. I really liked it. I found it. I totally agree. I removing the scene where he's leafing through the photo album and it's kind of underscore again. This is where i think it's so brilliant about that thing that you're just talking about is he's looking through this photo album mournfully as if this is the representative photographic evidence of the closeness and the and the great time that was had had not only by by him dana delany but by all of them but the photos are just people at parties drunk and doing drugs. It's not a collection selection of heartwarming photos of togetherness. It's just party photos but he's leafing through it. As if it's the most photo of his newborn child while do you better specifically specifically the one he lands onto more and her into thing about her is a picture of just her on the beach but he's not he's not in it. It's a picture of her so yeah. That's what i'm saying to me. The relationship is not real. It's in his mind. It's played that way. It like both was and wasn't real which is is true to the to the to the subject matter. I think whatever disagreement we have about which of the two is more or less unreliable. It's just that i think they sort of both are and who knows maybe that's also where they they found their girlfriend here to find out really where your allegiance with theon latour sort of begins and ends. I mean if you get a little stalker. I i don't know i don't know reflection on his side when you're watching a paul schrader movie and you're thinking like i really i'm rooting for this guy. I hope the chris cassini. They'll turn it around. Come on jaws better than this snitch is out. You know his supposed- friends on the phone call today is not a very lake i his name also isn't john. Doe is john to her actual. The name is we don't know what is he has. A sister brought up like in the eleventh like the name is so good though like oh. Let's just again another layer of the bullshit to the supposed- class elegance of what they're doing. It's just it's so good and if he wasn't so desperate to try to create a real life that might just seem cynical this now it does seem tragic because here you have. This person who wants to feel trying to feel wants to connect needs to connect surrounded by so much bullshit and can't think of anything to do besides more. Both you know another another thing on the defoe part. I don't know if you watch this. I watched an interview that he did with charlie rose right before before the movie came out <hes> and it's worth looking at i we may have mentioned this before just in our interpersonal conversations but you know i always think that actors broadly can be classed into two groups. One group are capable and really good at discussing what they're doing as actors and the other group are almost almost unable to speak at all to their process or what they're doing like deniro for example isn't a guy who's going to go on and on what about you know what he was thinking or approaching in a given scene and kinda surprising to me because i mean of course we'll have watched willem dafoe for thirty years just do everything but he's surprisingly inarticulate about what he was thinking and what his process was kind of interesting to watch. He's so good. He's just one of those guys his look his his visage when you put that face on screen it's so i just think of all his movie movie roles. Now i think of him in all these other movies where his complexity it he's so compelling complex even if he's not doing anything <hes> and and he's so good at dialogue in this movie's dialogue is so good and tight and there's really not a wasted thing again until the end when it gets a little silly but really up until then man it's it's just it's so well done and he so interesting to watch and so perfectly cast. I can't imagine if anyone else was ever considered to be in this movie other than him but i can't imagine anyone else doing that and serandon was so good to she doesn't get a lot of credit for this role that i hear about man. I can't think of anything where she's really as as good as she is here again up until the end but she's so good and specific and the scene between the two of them in the restaurant so that's the plan the plan for the future my future at two conceptual. We have this conversation kind of session two years ago. We're going to have it again this time. It is for real well. I'm thinking about taking some music courses sound editing editing mixing. No that was acting that was modeling. Guess should try this bears. They're flown in from someplace. I mean everything's bonded from someplace. This is something you want to say and what's up. I guess i'm a little worried. Everybody thinks i'm so tough and you gotta be tough. I mean mean especially in this business. It's one thing to look tough. It's another thing that christie's instance the big producer nominee for kademi word best picture. I used to know every girl fact who how i mean. He couldn't take a shut me when we were like this so i told him to get straight concede cut him off old money. Remember the last thing you said to me. We'll keep in touch right now. Five years sokaia is so sad and fraught and yet taking place in this temple of were all rich and successful and everything thing is good but she gets snubbed by the former giant. Who doesn't you know she's just a drug dealer to him yeah and to herself to which because i think the the thing i feel like they're so desperate to pretend they're not what they are and their only choice has been to buy into that idea of themselves selves. I guess for so long that you know he's supposed to be thirty eight in the movie right. That's a long time to be in the low in life right. Yeah i moved to new york in nineteen. Ninety-five five i lived in the east village. My first apartment costs three hundred and eighty dollars a month when twelve street and avenue way and my first job paid two hundred and fifty dollars a week as a production russian assistant so you could live in the east village yeah as late as one thousand nine hundred five and get started in a career in the entertainment business and you could do that. Obviously you can't do that now. Now there is no such thing unless you are so far away in our bureau and living probably still with seven or ten rates in some kind of a situation where you can afford ford that right. It's another thing that i think lends the movie some retro active kind of ennui or angst. If you will in the sense that that you could still live that way when this movie was taking place <hes> like latour could try music career or an acting career or any of the careers that he talks about wanting wanting to try and discarding could try and do it and make a living because it wasn't quite so expensive at the time. The movie is set. It was possible to to live in so the east village the west village and house kitchen kitchens and rockwell were jealous jealous lives and and you could you you could eat out an existence yeah. That's part of what makes latorre even more desperate and sad really is. He's like i think of taking some production in music classes. She goes didn't you do that. He said no no she's like what was that acting painting modeling modeling. You know the sad lunch sad lunch yeah were. They didn't eat their fruit. It was that the only thing they were having or was that the resume and dessert okay. Maybe that's like famous dessert. Whatever that restaurant was <hes>. I think it was lakota bosc anyway we can jump into the forecast so directed by paul schrader of course i mean you. I've seen seen a lot of paul schrader movies. I don't think i've seen any in a while as you mentioned. People are talking a lot about. I reformed. I think the last one i saw would have been bringing out the dead which underrate yeah. I think i've seen more of his is that he has written then then. He's actually directed. I wonder if i watched bringing out. The dead. Again is nick cage sort of another man in a room character who hates his job in his on this same kind of paul schrader as journey i saw bringing out the dennis out in the theaters in ninety nine and it <hes> i found it incredibly moving because nicholas cage also is he and willem dafoe both have a i think partially it's because they're unconventional leading men yup and they have a character actor sensibility so there's so much going on but before you even get to this is the protagonist story doing a recognizable thing yep. They bring all that energy with them with bringing out the dead. It's <hes> <hes> because he's an ambulance driver and wanting to help people like that. Metaphor is sort of so much open. It's like a sweeter movie in that. It's not sweep but yeah but it's sweeter that's attend because the the desire that that he has yeah and he also has problems in the sort of ghosted this this thing that defines him that he hates and loves at the same time but it was great. I want to one of my favorite paul. Schrader movies blue-collar nineteen seventy-eight obscure. Have you seen it. I haven't seen it. It's richard pryor harvey keitel and you off that koto. It's it's a great movie and richard. Pryor is probably different in this than in any other richard pryor movie. You're going to see so. I recommend that movie because i can't think got any other non comedic roles that richard pryor on but it's right but it's joe dancer his own life his own life story. Yes so schrader obviously defoe serandon. We've spoken about dana delany david clinton. I mean david glenn is one of those guys like. I think. This is going to be recurring the thing for me because i'm as we do these. That's an actor to me. Yeah you look at his page. He's one of those guys who has credits going back to to like what feels like the sixties yup well nineteen sixty nine to today yeah. That's an actor man t._v. Ed movies everything and it's on gray ones in the thing and he was in the thing and being there so but not a leading man is that is that is it. Maybe it's better to be the david clinton then to be the tom cruise. I don't know i mean i mean tom. Cruise is out but one percent of the one percent but i mean i don't know there's so many guys like victor. Garber is great in this to you might also think of willem defoe also has <hes> has more of a character actor who has done some performances but you think most of his performances are character sort of supporting things but this clinton guy you're absolutely right like you have so so so it makes it feel so lived in an so earring the bell yeah lows like you feel like you're in good hands with him and that's something you can't really like. The script is whatever it is his lines or whatever the our wardrobe. I don't know but his avuncular presence he just has that. I thought victor garber was so good <unk>. I've never seen victor garber without white hair. I mean before he sees this to me is such a great character of god. It just reminds me of my misspent. Youth is the the effortlessly cruel wealthy person who who can indulge his own wims perversions addictions at no cost to himself. You meet the character tease. He's in a hospital hospital. Because some girl he picked up in a bar he doesn't even know had an overdose and he called his drug dealer to bring him a valium he. There's like a not a conflict but the two of them he's like hey showcase like who is that some valence and loot <hes>. Just let him attend what is it. You won't believe it a nightmare. I brought in this chick. She oh deed man. I didn't even know her. I didn't have to bring her and the cops are coming back to talk to me. I'm gonna come down. This would never happen in zurich. Take two thanks. She okay who the girl girl with was not the in fact she called me and she wants to go out again so funny. Jane addams amazing now one of my favorite full cast and crew thing paul jabara who plays the guy who is addicted to the drugs eddie okay. This also seems to be very conscious that even with the selling drugs to why people not just a party drug. The character of eddie is sort of a reminder of. I actually actually if you could tell you whatever lies. This guy is dying in front of you so that guy paul jabara is as a disco legend. I don't know if you knew this. No he wrote last dance why and he actually is more of a musician than he is really an actor although we had some sort of seminal acting roles here and there but yeah he he's a he's a guy record for casablanca records so he's got a lot of rape extended disco tunes and man. He's so good is eddie. I mean he's yes to your point. He's the person in the movie who strips away the veneer of the teas and the nightclubs all the shit and just shows you what you're really doing wing here. He apparently is the composer of it's raining men. I always he really. I didn't know that this was his last guy. He died. I think two years right. I forgot same rockwall was in this movie until he until he showed up because it's so jarring to me. I guess i guess what it is. Christmas and i'm old that nineteen ninety-two feels like a long time away a. and it feels like how could sam rockwell even be alive in one thousand nine hundred two and then winning an academy award in two thousand eighteen yeah come to find out he does. She had been in a bunch of movies before this exactly this. I'm sure you're looking at one thousand nine. Hundred i'm old tombs which has its positive experience numerate them some other somewhere podcast. He was great again. Maybe it's schreyer's i i or something like that but he's both with him as with clinton clement clinton linen that all of the actors that he cast in this hasn't again whether it's he has a good i for likes that style or something about his direction there there was nothing showy fussy say i'm not a sam rockwell fan. There's something there's something about him. As an actor that i can never get too. I find him really remote all the time in what he's doing wing and i don't find him accessible in a way that i i like. I like to feel like i can connect to the character in a certain way and there's just something about him and i don't know what it is. I just never he's never someone who's i can appreciate that he's that he's being good yeah like often watching him in movies and going wow he's. He's really good really good in this movie but i don't know you know it's funny taste just because i don't have a strong feeling about sam rockwell one way or the other and i guess it it also depends on what you're sort of looking for anything because this is more of a conflict i have not even a conflict but <hes> sometimes when with my own writing writing and and i have to admit that i am usually less interested in watching something or listening to something in relating directly to the person as being sort of interested in in in watching them and understanding them not from afar not that i wanted to be connected but there is something about like i appreciate so much some somebody that feels like there's sort of living in it that i don't i feel like i need to connect to them as much as like understand or feel like i've been given an honest portrayal that i share lean something from totally yeah well. I think it's interesting because i think you as an actor or have this quality that i'm talking about liking like when you're in something. You're there like there's a heart to it that i can connect to yeah. I think you're right. I think think with with him. I have this also with jessica chastain <hes> like i see her in movies that i'm supposed to like or that. I'm supposed to think she's she's amazing in this ad. Maybe she is but i just can't plug into. I can't there's some there's some there's i guess there's a remoteness and a coldness that may may well be indicative of you know like having appropriate boundaries or or being a well adjusted person. I don't know what i i like that. You're just like emotionally haywire and so when i see you in something i liked it. It's all there and i'm like yeah. Give me some truth. I don't no no but <hes> yeah. I don't know but he's good in this. He's really good in this jacket is amazing and the other one is the probably the greatest credit will ever have feel logical. Coquette is a pretty good acting credit to have what was that show. If there is no god then how can we conceive of you know i mean the idea of god presupposes the existence of god seattle logical argument that's anselm. It's twelve hundred fourteen hundred shekel. Check out this tourist. This is a good part so if the idea of god is implanted by god the census advertisers the sense of the divine you know then what is the role of human thought david speed ninety two. I don't know what years was david david spain on saturday night live. I was later. I think it was like ninety. Five been that much later because i see on his page tommy boy yeah. It was ninety five ninety five. We'll tell me boy was. I think at the height of his let me see david spade. I think he had to have been on s. and l. a. season s._n._l. Already when we saw this when when this movie came i think he was already only judging by. I'm sure they didn't give him. Tommy boy cast members for one thousand nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred nineteen ninety-six so he'd been on for two years. That's crazy me because this also seems like such a again not knowing too much about david spade when somebody who's a comic star like that and who probably walk through and get as many joe dirt as he wants to these like this summer. I think i'd like to work with this. Oh tour yes. I have never done something like that again. Full cast and crew is brought to you by behemoth from monkey brain comics behemoth is the dirty dozen meets the fly with little spiderman thrown thrown in kids are turning into monsters and the government steps in to keep things quiet summer never heard from again but others are forced on suicide missions on behalf of a world that hates them as part of project behemoth find it on monkey brain comics dot com or comics allergy today the sense sometimes paul schrader movies and we can talk about the music as a jump off of this sometimes it feels like somebody he met at a party ends up having a really important thing to do with the movie <hes> <hes> when i first started watching the opening credits i'm like what is this music show overwrought and dated and crazy then of course. I remember remember that it's from the guy who was in the call. Ban walls came down. You know great band great song and this was like his solo effort and i think he's a much beloved guy in the music business. He died very young yup. I think he died when he was sixty. Yes so when i was reading about it i read that schrader originally wanted to use dylan's empire burlesque which is as a dylan allah gist is is probably the worst bob dylan album of all time and that sayings on embedding and actually so last night he went back and i said well let me just listen to the let me just give twenty seconds teacher these empire burlesque songs because my first thought was oh my god that would have been amazing. 'cause i'm thinking more of like the land wa aw dylan albums that would have been moving and kind of had that seem ethereal lost new york soul sense. No i mean once. I listened to the dylan songs i was thankful. Michael did the music for light sleeper tamed the shoes and as soon as the first shot came on and that music came in they fell. You know we were talking last week. You mentioned i'm alright kenny loggins at the end of caddyshack eddie shack. There was something about this i was like should i know this. I like this music is displayed so prominent confident that you're like. I must no one could non zone took jewish credit. I mean man. He's laying talk about talk about laying it all out there and being emotionally available. I kind of want to give this guy huggins. Eh michael. Let's go. Let's go down to six or seven here. You're in about thirty seven hundred on the emoting scale. I don't think paul schrader prostrate. It has got like like he recognizes zero three and then overreact ninety nine and above he doesn't have middle tones but the music does work it is evacuated of the time also his his scarf and his members only c._b._s. Wade jacket all of the things at the time probably didn't look and probably in ten years. They'll age you know there's sort of age again into awaited fuels yeah but right now it doesn't so to those very present vogels and the very fact that you have one writer of the of the songs doing multiple like rock songs in the soundtrack yeah. Usually there's like one or you have a few different artists but yeah in fact that that that the composer again not composing a score composing songs that yeah making that a sort of equal collaborator. It always seems to me risky risky yeah. I'm very because a lot of eggs in that basket. If it's a soundtrack it's like on a really like that that song but this other song but with this if you don't plug into michael biehn from the beginning well for me i always reference is turrets. A fire which is a great great movie which for me is ruined by the completely dated eighties soundtrack evangelist analysts that plays over it and there's some vangelis freaks out there. I know who are gonna have appropriate but that icon on conic theme right that you know <hes> <hes> but yeah the music it's funny. You're watching that i seen and it's just like a long shot over a huddled new york. Cobblestone street with garbage piled on either side and the song is so over the top and it's like the sound of a guy just ripping his heart out ironic because then we meet john mature who who his his heart is not really accessible to him. Yes until the very last shot of the movie. The movie does have that level of emotion going on but not demonstrably from any of the main characters which is i think kind of fascinating like the vibe of the movie is sad in heavy right and it's not sat in heavy in the way that saturday night fever is that movie is set in heavy in places because of things that are happening on the screen. This movie is freighted all over the place with this sad heavy. The party is over. We've stayed too long at the party. The garbage people are on strike strike like like everything about it. Has that tatty i'm in a nightclub and the lights came on and it's not glamorous anymore feel but not overtly which i think is great about and in that way the music which can seem kind of jarring to contemporary ears does fit and i i think actually the atmospheric music that he composed fits much better than those two epic themes where he's shouting emoting in lyrics yeah another shout out. I wanted to give in these full cast and credits. The cinematographer is kind of a fascinating guy and i would encourage people to look at ed lachman career on his i._m._d._b. Page this is a guy who has a cinematographer shot everything from the lords of flatbush to desperately seeking susan too. I mean still we're gonna documentaries. Carol lesson zero drunk minute gun which is a great great movie. If you've ever seen that my new gun i recommend arm and electra's aerobic striptease. That's what i saw a guy. I think he won an award for that up up to recently carol <hes> wiener dog wonder struck still working and i read it was interesting how this schrader raider has given some interviews recently talking about being kind of just like priced out of the the film market nowadays and the way that this ended up being produced bizarrely by i mario khazar and i think carolco right alco caracazo. I think it's caro- already asli where did a little bit of reading about the is the history of carolco which can pronounce huge musters and then within ten years was bankrupt. Yeah well is and low. That's the eighties chris. I mean yeah first blood rambo total recall eight or two and then l._a. Story jacob's health rhode island cutthroat island is like a movie that you think oh that would be fun to watch but really not really several hours of my life i'm not going to it's actually a real small list of that kind of like so bad. It's not even worth it karaka carolco like what do i find that hard to say. I don't know why do you think it's carolco. I've heard other people say. I think there was also a a documentary. No maybe no that was annan. No that was cannon film that had <hes> that's that's golan globus bright you right. You know what i don't. I don't know why orca roco accept because i know it sounds like a video game. What would you sounds like mario. Kosar's wife was named caroline so they named it carolco. Though that is not why they named how do you know because on wikipedia martin guitar said like yeah we sort of bought the name doesn't really mean it doesn't mean anything he was bought in a company. That was going out of business this the name still working apparently who mario marks are. Oh wait. No sorry not still working well. It doesn't say that he's dead. Let's see there's a section on wikipedia expedia caracazo carolco relaunch carolco carolco and that's cassara had returned as chairman of the board. Maybe he's just tired when i blood money any recall money or the terminator money or in <hes> november two thousand seventeen. The new carolco was renamed recall studios <hes> or i guess it could be any credits since two thousand nine. I'm sure it's just midnight living living the dream. I guess during the one thing undeniable chris let's live for the day when i am dp is actually paying us to do this podcast instead of us pirating off their intellectual property win win instead instead of only in kissing. There is a little bit more than you're doing. Well i think that is our attempted to produce the now shove bartholomew versus neff a john hughes film which would've started stallone and john candy wow. I'm interested to see like that's why. I want a time machine. Oh you had mentioned the young woman in the <hes> club. We're tour is with those. Yes that tatiana von first diane von furstenberg daughter now. Would you like to know a personal anecdote related to tatyana donovan furstenberg now. You should see the look chris i couldn't. I couldn't imagine looking happier writing blouse. Yes of all the things to make you happy well. In the say early. Nineties actually probably right around when this movie was filmed. I had a friend who went to brown university and and i believe that tatiana von furstenberg brother alex also both went to brown university at the time it was known as having for lack of a better term in no offense implied to the individuals in question it was known for having tier of students who are often referred to as eurotrash which was sort of extremely grimly wealthy people of european descent. I was surprised that didn't come up when talking about teas that term teases pieces like the embodiment of this type of person who lived extremely dreamily well at what was a pretty liberal and kind of touchy feely university brown university right talking like princeton yale harvard here but anyway i went to a party at brown tatyana and her brother alex were at this party and i remember my friend pointing them out and he was sort of poor firmly in this eurotrash scene and i sort of was like a tourist here both to the ivy league itself and to this eurotrash seeing that my friends seem kinda wanna be a part of which sort of reflexively and intuitively felt was kind of silly and ridiculous and they were like these stars these tanned beautiful default twins. I i don't know i keep thinking they're twins. I'm not sure this is one of those stories when you're deep into the story and too far <hes> to really get out you realize there really is no story or end to this story other than the thing i can edit. There was a party and i think that alex when i got into a fight and choke the guy a little bit and then we left the party and that was the last time i ever in casinos. Eurotrash is being violent well. That's great can't include that. I don't know that might be a slant. That might be slander. I mean if you're willing to testify well under oath. I just remember in my very impressionable. We'll teenage year being just one. There was only one and then i i grew up very quickly from there. I don't know if you have moments like this. Every member like with great specificity this random moment not because these people meant anything to me or because they were stars or celebrities which certainly they weren't i mean i can't imagine that i knew who diane remember. When i was then or even real i mean now i know who she is but i certainly didn't know who she was. Then i think these were just pointed out to me as like a those are two princelings slings of royalty and fame or something and of course just sort of staring and being like woo hoo and what are these these creatures and then remembering during that he got into this kind of brawl at the party and it was a very weird weekend at brown university. Let me just say that. So that's my great great story stories you will cut out of entirely of the are you on that on the left on the ground changing from full cast and crew to brown's only because you brought her up. Did i tell this because i thought i was like tell the anecdote about how i was at a party with her and then rise alantic me to tell that as a story i was at a party ones with allison and taty suddenly informal close friends caller taty anyway. I'm just saying i lived the eric chris. It was ninety-two. Probably i mean probably was around the time they were in this movie because i'm sure paul schrader is like a bit of a society -iety new york guy and i'm sure he encountered them and she's perfectly cast in her friend are perfectly cast as as the euro girls in the club that they we are in the scene in the movie that you're talking about. Yes so anyway just be- kind chris when to you to outsource talk to me mostly. I think i'm not saying not to include it but i'm just saying if you do included please include some of the self deprecating comments the rally it will not it will not live on. It's not letting me in the eyes. He told me that he has his fingers crossed. Okay well. I think that zunes episode of full asoka chris. I think this was our best episode after the mine now okay well. You know what we don't know what you're going to release these so it doesn't even do any good to discuss what we're going to. You may not put out the first one first or the second one second yeah who knows who knows people might not ever hear what we thought about saturday's pretty you sure no one will ever hear any of them. We're talking about right now. Thanks for listening into full cast and crew. <hes> just want to remind everyone to subscribe. If you haven't already see you'll get a new episode every thursday and we'd love to hear from you so so email us at full cast and crew pod at or you can follow us on twitter and instagram at at full cast and crew or find us on facebook.

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