John Ourand and Aqib Talib
What up. I'm howard beck. Senior writer for sports illustrated the little breaking news. The crossover pot is expanding. But it's like a minor expansion like adding a game room or a breakfast nook. I always wanted to breakfast nook. What's that mean for the pod more episodes and more guests and not just traditional nba voices. Of course we'll talk to players and coaches and others around the league but also actors comedians musicians. Basically anyone with a connection to the game or who's just a big fan but it will always come back to the nba in this game. We love it's gonna be a blast. You'll still here. Chris mannix than me. Every tuesday on the crossover with the discussion of all the latest. Nba news then on fridays. It's me and a guest. I think it's a great idea. You'll hear it and a lot more so stick around. Walk run to the sports illustrated media. Podcast i'm your host jimmy trained and thank you for listening. Good show today. We've got two guests first. Upjohn ran from sports business. Journal breaking down all the latest sports media business news. Nhl to deals with espn and turner. What that means. What's going on with streaming. I thought it was interesting as john. If he thinks is a good time or a bad time to be a sports fan based on consumption of games at that answer and conversation was interesting and then after john owen. We have a keep to leave. Who did two games for fox former. Nfl player and he's doing some stuff for with bleacher report for their draft and he was phenomenal. In the little time we had with him Had some interesting thoughts on mock drafts. Peyton manning going into the booth talked about his time as a patriot and shed some light on brady and belichick. He was great Keep philippe so check that out after. John ram Before we get to those two spots last week if you did not listen to the media podcast we had adnan virk on. Who is now the play by play van for monday night. Raw and he talked about Being fired from espn picking up the pieces getting a ton of jobs including raw and Life after espn so check that out. Two weeks ago Todd furman on. What's going on with gaming legalized sports gambling and Other recent podcast w. w edge. Scott van pelt. Check all those out in the archives. I let's get to john. I and then following him to keep toledo right here on the media. Podcast all right joining me. Now from sports business journal time us on was january. So it's good to catch up with mr john ron john. How's it going great man. Thanks for having me. My pleasure like i said last time you're on was in january some. There's a lot of news going on then and it's been a pretty busy time for sports media news now obviously They is news coming down. This week was the nhl and turner Announcing their deal. Which i believe you broke a couple of things before we get into. I think when. I had you on in january and i know i've talked about this with other people in the sports media rob. I was always surprised that turner did not get involved in the nfl negotiations. This time around. And then here they come spending all this money on nhl and now they have nhl mba mlb. They do a little bit of golf tournament. Why any do we know why turner in bother getting involved with nfl negotiations. The price has got too high. I think that For for turner for the nfl. The nfl really wants broadcasts To be a part of it. I think that's why you're seeing the espn piece of it adding a lot more abc than it had And they say that you know that one small package thursday night package for streaming for amazon. But the the prioritizes broadcast the attorney new. That you know it In previous years when david levy was turner they they tried to get into the mix with the nfl and you know the broadcast networks were or are there are prepared to pay an alternate was going to do was sort of bit it up and and it was unlikely that they wind up with anything. So excuse me. Sorry so. I i think that the nfl deal is a great deal for I don't know if they're paying too much. Every every story. I've ever written about rights. You know the the network is paying too much and by the end of the contract. It doesn't look like that much. But for turner thing about this they have the nba. They have mlb and now they have the nhl and they go deep into the playoffs with the nfl. They they have actually stanley cup finals. They have the ncaa tournament. they're gonna have the final four in the championship game on You know. I think it's neck next season. They have like those are the big four. They have the they've really have stepped up to where they're a big part of the sports landscape. And i know this isn't your world but they also have a e w rustling which is a pretty amazing success story where they were going head to head with the wwe's then exte- on wednesday nights and wwe just moved off. Wednesday's to tuesday's. Because w was doing better in the ratings. And you know w wanted to get away from it. Which is pretty amazing considering. Aws a startup company but they You know they're gonna take one night a week on. Tnt as well you know and unlike nba nhl in wrestling. There's no offseason. Make all year long. So not only that but i i don't know a ton about it but i i. I have seen the numbers. Numbers are right around. A million viewers it over a million that first week that The first week. I think it was two weeks ago could be three weeks. It might have been two weeks ago the first week that. Wwe moved off of wednesday nights going head to head with awa. W did over a million. Which i mean and how many how many networks especially cable networks would love to get a million viewers. I in prime time. So that's i mean that that is something that is really proving it's value for for turner they only did eight million less than the oscars on cable. No less the the big events. I tell you the the Within the sports landscape everybody's looking at the oscars. The grammys a golden globes. All of them setting record lows this year. I mean the one thing about tv is at. It's been live sports events and all of sudden you have these really big live events. That aren't doing well and people are People are a little bit nervous in this arena about some of those numbers. But don't you think you know. I didn't watch one second of the oscars did you watch any of it. I'm not a dockers oscars. yeah. I didn't watch one second of it normally. I would check it out. I just don't know how you expect that show to do well. When we went to the movies for year next year their ratings will be. I'm not saying they'll be up significantly and people have clearly you know. Don't go out of their way to watch award shows anymore. But i would be surprised if the numbers weren't up next year with people going back to the movies i mean i think that's true but i i mean my pushback on that is that people were stuck in quarantine at home binge-watching everything that came out and the golden globes suffered their worst ever. I i mean. I just you know there. There has been even before the pandemic there was a definite trend. Line that that showed viewership for those for those dachau's no doubt but there's a big difference between like the golden globes. Having the worst ratings ever isn't surprising the oscar thing i mean they the oscars went from twenty four million two to ten million. That drop excuse me. I think you know i think next year it goes up only because again you can binge things and watch things at home but the oscars of based on movies where you go to the movies and there's buzz and opening friday night and word of mouth and go see this movie. They had none of that this year. So i don't know how they're expected to have the show was terrible to from everything you read but going into it before you knew what the show was. I mean i don't know why you would watch it if you didn't go to the movies all year. Yeah and one other thing is that you know the the pre the pre show the pre-game show i guess either red carpet right it. Just it does build a certain excitement you get to see. You know people's what what people are wearing different stars and all that stuff and at and that does help bring that casualty to to watch it and there was much less about the sinus here so that was good oscar standard back to the nhl in So it's seventy turner. Nhl deal seven years. One point five seven five billion. Were you surprised the was able to get the money they got from turner and espn. Yeah i was. I was surprised But by that. I i thought that the nfl's one hundred ten billion dollars worth of deals was going to take enough money out of the market. I took a look at the. Nhl regular season. Viewership numbers on nbc and nbc sports network. And we were just talking about wrestling and the amount of viewers they brought in the nfl nfl games. Were you know none of them. Got close to a a a million viewers in the regular season. And i thought that you know that they might see a little bit of an increase. But i didn't think that they would be able to double which i did and i think that that shows the power of for sports leagues. I think that shows the premium that they're get to have their stuff strained. It's interesting because we said at the top us at the top when we talk about the nfl that they wanna stay on broadcast. Meanwhile everything in this world is is going to streaming. And obviously i know the nhl part of the the espn part of the nhl deal was obviously huge because from st standpoint cause they're gonna put seventy five exclusive games on espn plaza with this time. Deal hbo. Max component. that. I guess won't kick in right away is. Is that correct. Yeah that's going to kick in and a little bit. But you know what i think about. This deal is a it confirms that. It's a big bet on linear tv. There's so many streaming components to so th they're acknowledging the unmistakable trend in the business right now but in seven years from now we're going to be watching all. Nfl games on a linear television except for the amazon package. Seven years from now. We're going to watch the entire. Nhl playoffs and that's all. That really makes the money out of this. That's all going to be available on linear television and to me i've been writing about big tech coming in and how we're going to be streaming all these games for a decade now. And every every time i write about it's like well it must. It's going to be the next time. The rights come up. Well this is the next time the rights have come up and it's still about linear television. I mean they're they're again they're unmistakable streaming components but it's all about linear tv so but the the tnt has stanley cup. It's going to be unstable. It's going to be on. Tnt correct correct. Yeah so he says do you think the from from a consumption of game standpoint. Do you think this is a good time to be a sports fan or a bad time to be a sports fan. I think it's a bad time. That's a good question. I think that it's a bad time to be a sports fan because right now i think that if you're if you're a big soccer fan you have to subscribe to how many different streaming services to get what you want to see and you can see whatever you want compared to. When when i grew up in half the game were you. You could only listen to on the radio. Sound like an old guy now but it's you know it's a lot better than that but i have. I have a feeling. I'm pretty certain that there's gonna be a big shake-out within the string of the streaming space mass to where we're gonna be able to figure out a lot better about how you can as a as a really hard for fan of a certain sport or a certain team or certainly you can figure out how to how to get that relatively affordably bomb very glad you said that because i think it's a bad time to be a sports fan as well from that standpoint but you're way smarter than may. I'm happy because i just think. I think if you're if you're a again john mentioned it. I'm talking about the big time sports fan. Who pays attention to almost every sport. I'm not talking about the casual or woman who's in and out. I'm talking about the person whose life is sports and watches every sport. You still need to have network television. You need to have cable and then you need to subscribe to about eight billion streaming services. So you know. I don't know if you like every sport you're showing out a lotta money every month. That's really what the bottom line is in two thousand ten and before all you had to do is get a cable subscription and you had one or multiple. Rsn's to where you could see all your local teams. You had all these national networks. You had an nba tv nfl. Now we're gonna nhl network and you had distributors. That were too scared to drop any of them. Because they they realized way back when they're subscribing their their core subscribers were big sports fans that were sort of keeping everything afloat bra. That's not the case anymore. And i find all the streaming very confusing. I don't i always let hulu was nbc deal but now they have peacock which won an and the espn deal. I think puts games on hulu but you need espn plus and then you're gonna need some sort of bleacher report apple. Guess for the nhl. If you're a hardcore nhl fan you have access now to every single game and that that should be great but you need a cable subscription you need an espn plus subscription and you can bundled subscription and you need an hbo mexican subscription and all of a sudden that cable bundle that everybody complained about. Why am i spending this much money. When i never watched lifetime you know all of a sudden that's looking a lot more affordable than than it used to and you're always going to need to be able to fox and cbs if you're an nfl fan because that's where those games are and and So funny because those are over the air broadcast. I defy you to figure out how to put up rabbit ears just to get those those channels to come in. It's not an easy process. You almost need to pay a distributor in order to get those or figure out how to stream them. And i feel like anytime. I tried to watch something. That's not on traditional television. I always run into some issue anyway. It's you got subscribe to this or upgrade to this. I mean it's it's not a simple i. I'll tell you a story from over the weekend on a total side note. I decided you know less year in the pandemic hit. I wasn't mentally prepared. Like i'm going to be home for the whole summer. Like i sort of knew it but he was you navigating the pandemic this year. It's a lot different. If you're vaccinated like i am sorta looking forward to this summer so i said i'm going to be home all summer. Still there's no word on going back to the as i also might get a very small cheap. Tv for the backyard. So back there and watch yankee games. It's all i wanna do. Zabel get like a twenty eight inch. Tv for one hundred nineteen dollars. So even if i leave it out and it rains and ruins a tv it's fights set. It gets delivered friday. I set it up. I figured i'll put a amazon fire. Stick in it. Download the yes network app and there i go. I'm good to go ready to watching enke's so comes friday. I'm all pumped up. I set it up. I got the fires thick load. Yes i brought a brand new chair for the backyard. I get comfortable seven o'clock. Let's watch the yankees. And they're on channel eleven w pix at night. And now i can't watch them at all so even when you think you have it all figured out. There's always a curve ball. It seems like when you're trying to watch all these things it's on it's on over the air for the cord cutters your that out to watch it. So goes the whole of jimmy in the backyard deal. I would have thought you weren't watching the yankees this season. I the way they're playing. What do we got here. They play in your oriole's right now battle for last place matt. Harvey turned back to the dark knight. Beat the yankees. Yeah i don't know the streaming thing. I don't i feel like it has to get narrowed down a little bit in the next few years. Yes or no. Yeah absolutely. I think that what what we've seen is really an unbundling of of the cable system. And you're going to see a bundling again because bundle bundled services are more consumer friendly. And they they they. They're going to cost less right now. You have Paramount plus peacock. Hbo max all of these services hulu is stuck with disney plus in. They're actually doing. Why hulu and netflix. I think our disney plus a netflix are up there. And like but i do and you still need your like. If you're new york you want be able to have yasser. I said why depending on if you're a yankee fan but my point is like there was like there's a whole group of like mid level streaming services that are doing whatever they can to step out so like. Did you watch wrestlemainia this year on peacock. I did not. I watched what it was two nights. I watched one night but even that was an issue. Because you can't get peacock yet if you have an amazon fire stick. Are they not download. It's quick serena right. Yeah so you had a that was an issue So that's what that's what. Nbc's doing it's like okay. We have all the wwe fans. So that's that's the way for them to get. I mean i think that this Red zone At the Nfl sunday ticket deal. That's coming down. The pike one of these streaming services is gonna unload a ton of money. Because they're going to use this as a way for it to really sort of step and step away from the others and become something like a netflix disney. Plus and that is by far and away. If i'm just going on the people in my life my friends who follow me on twitter my circle more than anything else that all anyone wants to know is what's happening with sunday ticket but we still have to get through this season and next season if i'm not mistaken with direct tv exclusively and then it'll get opened up so he's still got two more nfl seasons to get through before the change can come off the Sunday ticket lock that direct. Tv has yet how many people are dying to get rid of direct tv. The might my friends that are direct. Tv subscribers solely for sunday ticket can't wait for it to go somewhere else. It does seem like espn plus is going to end up with that. Just based on nothing. That i now. Yeah my my Out of the off the wall predicted. Is i think peacock kit. What will use this to really ramp up and try to get you know jeff. Shell runs universal. He's a guy that did the pj toward deal back in two thousand six you know. That was a such a seismic deal for golf channel. And like he. He's he comes from fox and he knows the value of live sports. That's where i'm going to put my money. Yeah let's switch gears to the nfl draft. Which is thursday nights. Some of you listening to probably taking place already. Some of you coming up. I understand the. Nfl rules the country. And it's not even close with whatever second. The coverage of the draft is completely out of control. And it is. I mean it's amazing. I mean listen you have your espn and your nfl network and abc which will wear it but you know then. Every other side company tries to do their own show. It's amazing to see how big this thing has become. I mean how many mock drafts can people go through. But they all get clicks. I mean they do it if they didn't get viewership on a on all of this it's under percent it's a the the draft has become such a big event I'm still amazed. I don't think we're gonna see in cleveland yet. But no two years ago when it was in nashville the amount of people that came for just what was basically a street party still amazes me like i. I'm a big sports fan. I grew up as a big sports fan. i like. I can't fathom who would go for one hundred thousand people crowding into a street to hear like a names get announced over a loudspeaker to. I mean it's how this has been built into such a big event. And i think that you can see that with all the shoulder program that end companies that don't have the draft of doing their own draft shows and i don't get it but that's just me i. I predict the rating will be down from last year because last year there was nothing going on on the draft. Took place people yearning for anything now yet. There's more competition. What do you think about the ratings addressed. I think the ratings for the draft. They're going to be great. I think that there will be great. I'm saying lower higher lower than higher than lower than is here. i think they'll be lower than last year. Last year. was like a high wire. Act right and remember. Everything was remote. And i watched it just because i was waiting to see it all like mess. Up like Somebody's video freezing or having a go black. I mean it was it was a. I thought last year's draft was a technical marvel. I mean look. We're trying to do alive of or a taped show here and my my internet's freezing in the dogs barking. They were able to do something that was broadcast. Quality that That was that just nominal. And i think that I don't think it will touch last year's rating. But i you know th they have five big quarterbacks that are going in the first round they have a lot of a. There's a lot of interest in in some of the players. That are coming out. A lot of good storylines i think. be down from astier. But it's going to be a really big number. I agree with all of that definitely Another big item that came out this week The dan le batard star up metal lark got a huge huge investment from draft kings. What can you share. Anything with a i know a lot of The libertad audience out there is huge and the stugotz army. Is there anything you can share that. We might not know yet about metal metalworker where we can. I mean right now. It's just a podcast. But i'm sure they'll be tv or some sort of streaming component. Do we know anything yet. The ebony expectations what can you tell us about. Metal arc Not yet i think it's john skipper x. Espn x. zone is is running it He is a of course. Very tight with that lebatardshow. And he John skipper is as responsible as anybody in my opinion for building up. Espn's a editorial outfit. I mean he was at. Espn roll well. Before he is espn's president and was overseeing the magazine overseeing all the editorial going in the dot com. I think that he wants to build something along those lines And i think that he sees a place for that it gets especially if you have people like letard who are who are big names that that can get away from that but what i think so so interesting about that deal is actually had broke the story the draft kings really looking to get in get content and right now. They're starting with podcasts. And they're starting with certain shoulder programming. And i think you know they're they're looking by different publications. That are out there and i think that you can really like if you take this to. Its logical conclusion. You know everybody's waiting for amazon apple and google to bid on sports rights. What's gonna stop draft kings from going in telling. Mls will buy your sports. rachel stream them off. Whatever we will and will be you your users or your viewers will be able to bet on. It went whenever they want. I think that that's that appears to be where this is going. But we're sort of at the early steps in the first steps and when i saw that Meadow lark deal that. That's that's the first thing that i thought about. It's an interesting wrinkle. If dr king's ends up getting into the streaming rights business with sports and you know and and again don't think about the big sports like they're not going to get the nfl would never do at the nba would never do that. But you know at least not for a primary package but you have you know small to mid level conferences and leagues that now all of sudden. Nbc sports network is no more. I mean they're they're less places to go and they're less than you have networks that again have spent hundred ten billion dollars on the nfl. They have less money to spend on some of these smaller networks. That could be a really interesting place for them to to make some money. Just thinking of how you said you think peacock could be a player for sunday ticket on. If they're applying for the lebatardshow. I know they have is in and dan. Patrick could have i. I know that skipper is out there actively shopping at any shopping all the regular people a regular companies these new companies as well. I thought it was interesting to laboratories said draftkings is giving them more support than anyone ever thought. That was that you could read between the lines of that one pretty easily so easily that i don't think there was anything to read between the. Oh that's i was to say so you know it's draft kings and and so much of the. Nfl deals revolve. Re much of the money revolves around this increase in gambling. That's going on throughout the country at being legalized gediminas. Finally acknowledging it. I thought though. Did you see the quote. On tuesday from rob manfred where he said that I guess adam silver told him to stop complaining about the pace of play in major league baseball because the downtime is perfect for in game betting the fact that commissioner even talking about that we have come a long way. I gotta because. I can't figure this out i'm not a. I'm not a big gambler. As i think you know not. I know that you gamble a bit. Like what's is there an attraction for you in a baseball game because you're also baseball fan of saying like this next pitches of striker ball or something like that. Is that really an attraction for me personally. No i love to bet baseball. But i wouldn't bet. Is the next pitch going to be a baller strike but there are enough people out there where that is an attraction in game in game out of everything that's gone on in the gambling world over the past couple of years with the becoming legalized and the rise of the draft kings and the and the fan dole's and whatever is daily fantasy. The in game is where the biggest Opportunity is for these companies to make money. Because you know again you mentioned before they. You felt all doll fuel now. It used to be when i started betting back in college. Echina- day back in the day. You called in your bed at six thirty and it seven or seven thirty when the game started it was done for the night like that was it. It was over then online came in you. Were able to bet like you had a bed at ten thirty at ten o'clock west coast game at seven o'clock on the east coast now online. Gambling came so you can bet the ten thirty game at ten thirty. Now you can bet. Throughout any game you could not watch the first seven innings of a game put it on and then bet the last three innings in bed whose i mean you have unlimited opportunity to place those wagers which means all these companies are just gonna make more and more money. So are you finding that you personally. Are betting more in game. I don't like in game. I'm not. I let me just say this about the gambling thing in in in all seriousness. I only bet. Nfl and college football. And i usually have a ton going on those days with wages. So i don't get involved in the in game we're in game is good as let's say it's a sunday night game monday night game. I don't like the game. i don't like the line. I don't feel like betting it. I'm tired from watching football all day. And then i watch it and then i decided i wanna make a bet then i can. I won't end game a game. I already have a bet on. If i don't bet a game and then watching it and i see something. Oh then maybe. I'll jump in on it but i know a lot of people who love everything about in game. That's another area where you know we're talking about the streaming services in the shakeout boy the gambling right. Now it's like go like a a land rush and you see so many companies doing so many things to do to try to get involved with that night. There has to be a shakeout at some point. Where the you know. The the business term further consolidation. But you're going to see some a lot of consolidation. And i think pretty soon in that was speaking of consolidating that ended on. Because i'm curious. Because i think you had mentioned this we just so the nhl sign a huge deal. We just want the nfl sign. A monster deal. I think baseball signed new deals with turner and espn last year. Nba's coming up. Where does this leave all the sports that are not part of the traditional for majors even though lives in college football as much bigger sport than the nhl but what are traditionally known as the four major sports in the united states. Where does that leave everything else in terms of network deals money. Prophets what they can do in the future you know they're going to have to. My personal viewpoint is that I've said this already but the the nfl deals were so big and they took so much money. Out of the market and these media companies are for profit companies. They they're not just going to. It's sorta they're not cases where they're just gonna give money just to you know something that doesn't rate to these. These leagues and these conferences need to demonstrate that they they have a substantial fan base. And that's a substantial fan base that has great demos young male demos that are willing to spend And it's going to be tough. I think it's going to be really tough for them. Because you have you have cable Service cable services are the subscribers are dropping like a stone. You have nbc sports network. Going going dark. You have other other networks that are just like you know kind of they're not in growth mode right now so that the the big question is It's going to be very easy to get streaming deals as we talked about. And you'll be able to go do that but like if you're going to if you're going to go on a streaming service you're only going to appeal to your hardcore fans and most people like linear tv because it's it's a way to get people to a sample their product and it's just it's going to be a real tough road moving forward for a lot of those Smaller smaller leagues definitely a bummer Went went to the nba deals up with the espn and turner. Off the top of my head. I think is Twenty four but we've got a little a little bit away and that's going to be really substantial. I mean i. That's everybody's been talking about when as big tech on a come in. That's last cancer. The that we have for this cycle for big tech to really swoop in and do something and nba could have the type of fan base or somebody like apple. Just kinda says like dog it to us. That's that would be interesting for sure. I'm not predicting that that that that would be something to look at all right so you got a little break till twenty twenty four with the nba. Then that'll be the be fun to see what happens with that. I mean i feel like they've been with the spn and turner for of definitely forever. They had nbc before us. Peon how that shakes out. Well again like what we saw from the nhl what we saw from the nfl. They prioritize broad linear television and broadcast television. Right all right. I appreciate you coming on and giving us some info very very enlightening stuff. Always good to hear from you on this kind of news. So i appreciate it love on his jimmy. Thanks for having me now. All right take care of they save look. No one's perfect. Even the best baseball players strike out with the bases loaded. The best golfers sometimes three-putt with the tournament on the line. So if you feel like you've come up short in the bedroom sometimes it's perfectly okay but it's bothering you. 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All right joining me now. He was a big head in a limited run in the fox booth last year. And he's going to be part of bleacher reports draft show on thursday friday and saturday former. Nfl player keep ta- leib gabe going all good. I'll good how you doing doing well. Thanks for coming on. I I know you get ready for big draft show with bleacher report. The nfl draft. I feel is just blown up in a way that it's hard to even imagine the coverage and i'm curious because you've gone now from player now you're doing the media thing Can you even believe how big the draft has become in terms of fan's thirst and appetite for. Yeah i mean it just disputes. On our game we a fans every year. And i'm is not like is a small deal it was. It was a big deal in as an eight when i got drafted man. So is a huge event. Man is a is a is a celebration for them. Young guy right. Did they make a big right. You're going to be doing The studio stuff. Bleacher report gridiron thursday friday saturday for the draft. Are you expecting What are you looking at. Bring yourself to this show. I'm just curious because we saw you on fox you very loose people liked it where your philosophy going into the gridiron draft. Show the same man. Just know sherman knowledge man. I'm i'm the i'm the. Nfl perspective in nfl. Out of this day. So i just missed teams mass studying rosters depth chart stuff like that so coal in emceeing connor is some fun guy so much to be a good time so tell me about a little bit last year like i said You're a big hit with a lot of people. did you. Two games for fox week. Ten week fifteen right. You did the washington team vs detroit and then did eagles cardinals which i saw a lot of. I wrote a column Saying we need more of you in the booth just ca. Why only two games last. You're all come about for you. Take me through your your last year with fox. They're doing the games. Well when when. I got the call from fights while my agent karma He said that they wanted to sign me to three game deals. It was like a max of three games and you know is a chance that you would do no games. 'cause you not on a team where to beat team so you just kind of filling for god's with all its covid stuff going on Like an audition really man. I probably like ten k. For the game right. Really get no kasim Game but It would just opportunity opportunity to go out there. Not see if you can do it or not. I honestly it was a. It was an opportunity for me to see if i enjoyed it. 'cause it's not like i'm hurting for cash right. I'm right on his good right so it was opportunity to see if i was going to enjoy it or not for myself and i loved it man. I loved it. It was a real rush. It was it was about as close as you can get to plan in the game so besides coaching. But i loved him man. I loved every minute of it. And i'm looking forward to doing it more to season ten k. For three hours isn't bad. Em's and can't can't complain about that. It's a tell me what did you tell me what you liked the most about it but let me ask you this. Let me start with this when you were in your playing days. Buccaneers broncos etc. Did you ever think you'd go in the booth. Never okay never. I never i never. That's why so crazy. I came up. I never say like when. I'm done playing. I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get in the booth on play-by-play commentate like i. It just came about man. I kinda start paying for the rams next thing you know. I'm in nfl network box office just meeting with the guys next thing you know. J. b. is calling me saying that. I wanna do a three game deal next thing you know. I'm against them tips and reminders from jerry. Madeline and a mini booth. Who's j just for the listeners. Out there s a my agent united agency was this something that you pursued or was it the networks pursuing you way would they kind of pursue me. I mean i don't know to what extent my agent them you know. Pursue them out white. When i was done. I'm like art uneven job. Somebody gimme on fox like you know kind of asked me did i wanna do it. I'm like yeah. I tried out. It's cool. i'm sure i like it. I love football. So i feel like it kind of found me man kinda just fell right in my lap. And what kind of feedback did he get from the fox higher ups because you were. Obviously you were different then. Most of the cookie cutter analysts were used to. And that's why. I thought you were great and a lot of people did and fear someone who covers. This is that you know executives. When someone's different they try to change them a little bit and make them more cookie cutter. Which i hope doesn't happen with you. But what was the feedback you got from fox. Executives was good good feedback man. I made me smile. 'cause i got it puts miles on my face from the higher ups wa wa talk to and They had no problem with me being myself. They actually like. I remember like jake man. The producer was like like he be key like we had our production and he liked. Don't try to be nobody else. Be regular key like they reminded me to be regularized. Loose is keep man. That's even want to hear. So they want me to be myself up there. I i i. I haven't watched the game. Like octa i could have been. I'm talking kinda proper right there. I could be myself a little bit more and so they was just super encouraging for me to be myself. That's what i really enjoyed about it. Well that's an interesting point do you. Would you prefer like you know. Go back to fox next year. We did it. You had a good time but you are a little bit limited in what you can say you just said about. You know you see a crazy play like oh my god that was fucked up. You can't say that on fox but if you do maybe like a streaming dealer. Maybe a little looser does one appeal. But obviously you're gonna get more money from fox than what what is going through the keep mindset for like next year year after a deadly definitely the money comforts healing work without seeing that money. Like you know what i'm saying. What if if it was something else in the works man. I hear a amazon. Prime is getting to football. Some of the game's going to say you know i think. Jd mentioned them. One time and so i'm open. Any man is football. I'm a football fan. So i love the stay around the game in almonte studying. I kind of retired. 'cause i was todd studying but not be so bored now for the draft and stuff and our my studying on my putting the working man. So is you gotta do a lot of work in studying for the draft to come to that definitely i. I studied the players. Maybe like top five top seven each positions top. The top guys top guys but for the most part man. I'm the nfl perspective. So i really. I really locked in on these teams and You know depth charge and things like that what these teams could use. So i can know how valuable these pigs won't be as a guy who was playing recently and now you're transitioning into media of these eight billion mock draft cycle on and all these quote unquote draft experts. Do you look at it and smiles. Like oh this is a bunch of bullshit or do you take it seriously as 'cause now you're on both sides of the fence. So what do you think about the way. All these mock drafts come about well. When i was when i was playing and when i was coming out myself i kind of thought like a bunch of bullshit and you know i kind of think anything right now. It's still it's still a bunch of bullshit you know is entertainment man. It is as a football fan when there's nothing else going on man. I can look at the draft in cedar guys anticipate the guys coming nancy. How good they issued a top. Db's is it and things like that so it's still a bunch of boys shake because you never really know who's gonna be good. Who's going go. where what gm's thinking but is an attainment to say. The least makes me happy to hear you say that. Because i think that's what i know is i know me and i think other sports fans gets lost in the shuffle that sports. It's supposed to be entertainment. That's why you were so refreshing. Doing those two games for fox. And i'm sure it's one of the reasons. I'm looking forward to watching it a little bit during the draft. Because i know there'll be some entertainment there. People sometimes forget sports. It's supposed to be about entertainment associated television. That's the that's the most point man we entertainers at the at the end of the day. That's what they're paying us. Millions for because we entertain. This has got to be a little careful these days. 'cause you know one slip up and you're gone. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah i mean that's that's entertainment right. Yes eh. who is who are some broadcasters. You you enjoy listening to well. When i really getting ready for a look at it like this when i was trying to be the best corner. I'm watching sanders charles. Woodson right so trying to be the best commentator. I'm watching who get paid the best. They probably the best from watching troy aikman in rome. Oh you know what. I'm saying so. Nobody gets paid like romo as actually so i. I think i think able to do a good job. Man and get their point across at the same time and teaching entertaining at the same time so no one of the things. That's always tough for player. When they transitioned to the booth is being critical of other players. Because you know most of the guys you just played with these guys. Are you ever feel hesitant about you. Know if you've got to knock a guy and montauk about going over the top of socks pumped about someone makes a bad play. You gotta call him out on it and you may know these guys that difficult for you or that. Is that easy for you. As i'm getting there i'm getting there. I think it's easy. They make a bad play and they make a bad place. I've been calling guys out from making bad place whole career right. But i think when you really gotta like you know maybe like pre game or post game you really got to talk about the guy That's what i'm getting used to. I gotta put them aside with them. Friendships aside and i just the truth. Is there an example. Where there's a guy you're friends with who you may have had to critique and it was uncomfortable for you. I don't think not yet not yet. Maybe i had to think about a little bit. But i think the game when you call in that game in the booth is going so fast. You'll have time to really comes. Whereabout in is not like that. It's it's a it's a it's a real real pace. And i feel like if i if i said i mean listen you only two games so it's not like you got a ton of experience doing so obviously there's room for appropriate if i said to you what's the number one thing you want to improve on. If you do games next year what would you say. Say take just my speech taken out the arms and demands for show. Definitely gotta get the Man every other word. I got got a big guy so i feel you on that. I do a lot. I could work on that i can. I can get better at it though. I know it so i think just taking those out man and and just replays i. I was kinda slow on the replays and marshall but i see like troy and tony them sometimes they replay it immediately after the play phone down until what they want to watch what they want to know what i'm saying. Lock in on editor rape replay. Quick so i think if i can if i can get on replays and get to my explaining a little bit faster. That'd be good so couple more here before we wrap nano. Obviously you pressure on you when you start doing this draft show biard gridiron because you gotta know what you're talking about and no these draft prospects but i know for me personally to an end. See what you're gonna wear after that second game with fox when you had that on now you've got to maintain the standard. Do we have a special outfit for thursday night. Got a fit. Man i got. I got a fitter too casual though so we in like suits and stuff. So you know be. It's going to be a little disappointing because the soup game there because a lot of stir there on twitter. I won't disappoint though man. I i won't is. I went to the store. So we'll get something something notable it'd be a see that was something else when you did the philly arizona game. Yeah it was christmas time. And i think the game a couple of days before christmas so little festive had had a chandra. Give me a little festive. And that's what she came whitman. She always come with the people who became. I keep to lead fans during that game the tune into bleacher report. There's and they don't wanna see something you know something. Stand out on you. So it'd be nice neat man. Tell me do you have any sort of deal for the twenty twenty one season. Are you back with fox. You still working out. What's what's your status for twenty the twenty one season. Even i mean it doesn't get started for another five months but where we got so i hear i hear they kinda kinda hone in on that situation after the draft so as right now i'm still free agent but hopefully i'll be freezing too long. I'm sure if these networks want someone who's original you won't be a free agent too long 'cause you you you were. You were a fun listen. I enjoyed those games the second game. I heard clips to the first one the second game i watch all thing and i enjoyed it so appreciate it. Hope you back and then Like i said you can see a keep on the bleacher. Report gridiron draft. Show thursday friday and saturday Yet any like wild prediction for the draft. You got any thoughts on the draft. Before i let you go. Wow perdition for the drafts Let's say really. Wild me fox quarterbacks top ten any while right everybody's that right. Well forget the driven. Ask you this. You played with brady. 'cause you played with the patriots. We surprised at all. He was able to win the super bowl at his age last year. Na na and surprise at all man you you surround him with talent like that in bed. Defense called fire right at the right at the perfect time i did. I did a podcast. So i kind of follow defense. Follow secondary's all year. They was kind of high on my list at the beginning of the year. Then they kinda you know fizzled out towards the middle middle slash end of the year but they kinda caught fire right right again at the end of the year man so you you surround brady with that in a defense like that. Maj doubt he can win again. This year i was gonna say they're bringing everyone back so i guess you won't be surprised for a repeat. I definitely want. Were you when you play that year for the patriots. What did you learn about tom. Will you surprised by this accessories. Yeah party working to. What did you learn about tom that. Yeah you definitely see a factor man guys you want in the building. I wanted to impress excuse. I wanted to impress bill but should at practice. I'm prague's against time i wanted to. I want him to notice me. I'm going to stand out and impress him just as much man. And that's what you notice. Alight respect is due to roof man in you. Can philip guys guys showing up on time. Not just for bill showing up on time. 'cause tom show up on time every day and and and it's just that competitive nature Even in practice meetings anything we doing time super competitive a if you around them. You really could fill it. So i'll say to him to things and a year and a half. I play with the patriots season and a half. that's that's probably the two things i learned. I noticed about him. and what. what was it. Like playing for belichick. Tom tom thomas he does. He does have a good personality. He's all about work and focus but we see the personality come out and he's got something there ballot check a little more reserve. What tell me about the ballot check personality. I think it's a different than than guys. Think from the outside looking in man he he witty man. He joke all day. He get on god's butman so he really showed it to the media. I guess just the little spy. Gate kind of The media so he really mess with the media man but in a building. You could really see his personality. Man is second to none interesting. Yeah i build not really a big fan of the media. Seems like and now you're part of the media. Is that weird to hear that. You're part of the media. I am the bill told me you need some for me manual. Hesitate to call new anything meal. Show so man. I got the you know i got the i got the past. Can you tax them. You have his number if you had a text them. Say it again. Do you have his number if you had a text them. Oh yeah are calling me answer the phone. All right there you go. That's a good thing. Is we this this week this weekend. A little busy but definitely. I definitely got a bill like then. That's a good contact to have if you're in the what about tom can you take tom. Elliott definitely both got. Tom pay the other day. Ad me for my email. Ma i feel special man when i when i. When is this a random tuesday wednesday. One o'clock your phone beeping in his manny on actually email. So maybe you could shed some light on some rapid on this for the last three or four years. There's all these rumors that know. Espn wants payton for monday night. Football and people want payton in the booth and peyton never does it. Why do you think that you think putin will ever become a broadcaster. Man i'll i don't. They got enough money to pay. They got a. They got a double what they pay romance. They got forty million a year to get paid booth me he expensive. He's going to be the best one ever. Did it so expense that i mean. That's a ball. He hasn't done it so we got to see. Yeah i know pay is nobody. Don't think faster smarter. No football better than paying so it'd be the best ever do it. Well romo's getting seventeen and a half million a year so we'll see if they are you five minutes thirty five million pain yet especially monday night football to all. Yeah he definitely need thirty. Five million disney can afford it. They can afford it. I keep appreciate it. Good luck on the draft show. They had gridiron thursday friday saturday looking forward to seeing what we got what you're going to have on their that wraps up. This week's episode of the media podcasts. Keep toledo was a blast. Really enjoyed talking to him. John and great information on what's going on there with streaming and sports consumption very interesting time if you're a sports fan who likes all the sports there. Your your walls getting killed If you missed any reason episodes of the media podcast gonna the archives check those out. I'm on virk last week. todd furman. Wwe star edge of impact. All reason guests so subscribe rate and review. That wraps it up. We'll see you next week right here. On the media. Podcast stay safe and take.