Hoffa, Chapter 5 - The Finale


Shattered listeners. I WanNa tell you about a podcast from slate. I think you might like it's called man up. The host is Ayman is my own and in each episode. Oh this season he's helping someone who's stuck on some idea or another about what a man should be for virgin in his mid twenties. WHO's starting to get worried? He talks to an empathetic dating expert for a daughter who finds it impossible to buy her dad gifts. He brings in a woman who runs a men's clothing company. Sometimes the person trying to figure things out is aiming himself. You'll be surprised how much you can learn from. People in the middle of doing the work. Subscribe to man Dan up in tune in every week. Wherever you get your podcasts? Today's episode of shattered is brought to you by tubbies Detroit's original taken cheese since one thousand nine hundred sixty eight route in the parking garage garage here at WD in Detroit and for this final episode. We thought we do something a little different so come on get in the car. We're going to take a little ride first. Question is is a word we WANNA start. Guess it matters Komo for the sake of horry. Let's go. Let's start at the Red Fox and then go to the house. Okay so we can kind of get a sense. The how close. They are to each other hats on West on West Lafayette Boulevard for Third Avenue. In today's episode. We're going to visit some of the locations that are key to the hoffer story. Our first stop is about twenty miles north of Detroit so why were riding. Let's get caught up on the events that led to Hoffa's his final meeting in the summer of nineteen seventy five Hoffa was running out of options. He wanted the power back in his hands Presidency Agency of the teamsters union and he believed he could get it but the union offered no support. His longtime organized crime associates told him he should take his pension inching and retire but he had no interest in that Hossam knew that the only way back to power was if he could convince east coast. Crime and Labor boss Tony Only Provenzano to back him. What Hoffa didn't know was that a decision had already been made? My bosses believed Hoffa was going to share their secrets with the the FBI. So Jimmy Hoffa had to go journalist. Dan Modiin says he spoke to an informant. Who claimed it was Tony? Provenzano who put a contract out on Hoffa's life and late nineteen seventy-three early nineteen. Seventy four was was involved in your issues the first thing you have to understand former assistant. US Attorney Keith. Corbett every city was controlled by the boss of that city New York City being somewhat exceptional in that they had five families. But basically what happens is if you were the provenzano say coming in from New Jersey and your intention was to do something to Jimmy. Jimmy Hoffa Mob Etiquette for out of a better word would have required that you seek the permission and authorisation of the the family here in Detroit so if people from outside Detroit Cain to Detroit for the purpose of Say Kidnapping Killing Jimmy Hoffa. It would have been necessary to meet meet with the boss of the Detroit family and indicate what you were going to do Scott Bernstein thinks it was Detroit's crime in boss. Joseph Rally who ordered the hit not provenzano. He says Tony Pro wasn't a powerful enough. Figured I've made that call. Whether it originated genetic was a rally or Tony Provenzano or another powerful member of the Mafia but most experts agree the Detroit mafia was heavily involved in making. It happen two brothers in particular the Jack alone. He's both Tony Jack. Aloni and his brother Billy liked the sort of the gun. Jaren guy the approach. They liked to be known as organized crime figures and they would the public face of Detroit organized crime in the Seventies. Eighties Nineties indies. Because they liked to spotlight the Jack Loney said known Hoffa since the nineteen forties also trusted them so when they told told him they could help him make peace Tony Provenzano. He'd likely believed them. They don't come at your guns blazing they come at you like. They're your best friend and they want to help you out and they they rocky asleep at the they singing lullaby and then right when you're about to close your eyes and you know go off to Dreamland they stick shift in your back or put two in the back of your head with a with five millimeter the nine millimeter from wd IV and Graham media. My name is Steve Garagiola. You're listening to shattered season. Four Hafa episode five the finale. They knew that the the best way to get Hoffa out into the open been was to tell him that. Tony Provenzano was open to making a peace agreement and that they would let bygones be bygones. John's in they would meet put everything aside and they could. Provenzano was agreeable to giving him the support that often needed for the seventy six election. They just had to come together in a sit down. That meeting was set for the afternoon of July thirtieth office. Former driver Marvin Elkins says. He had a bad feeling the day before. I told Mr Hoffa there are people that are upset with you. His words to me were Marvin. My people will never army Bill Buffa Lino the longtime in house counsel attorney for both teamsters and the Detroit mob. Someone that was believed by a number of members of law enforcement to be both a made member of the Mafia as well as a attorney. His daughter daughter was being married on the first weekend of August hoffa disappeared on Wednesday July thirtieth nineteen seventy five and it was that following Friday and Saturday at this wedding was to take place. So when the Jack Aloni's came and told Jimmy Hoffa Zano is willing to sit down with you. Do and and put your differences aside and give you his support and oh by the way. He's actually coming in for the Buffalo Lino wedding this week so this will be a perfect time for us to all meet. It was very believable to Jimmy Hoffa. Because he knew that Tony Provenzano would be coming in for the Buffalo and already an awful wanted to believe it he. He shouldn't have believed it. Because it's crazy to think that after all these years and all these threats and all of this acrimony that all of a sudden twenty provenzano is going to be open and to giving him what he's been looking for this whole time and provide him the voting delegation to get reelected but Hoffa was so desperate to take back the teamsters. He started convinced himself of stuff. That wasn't true. And the Jacqueline's convinced him that They could arrange the sit down for July thirtieth at the Red Fox on telegraph and Maple for lunch all right. We are in Bloomfield Township Telegraph road and maple which is fifteen mile. That's the way we do. Our Roads Woods in Detroit by miles. We're at the Andaman restaurant which is now an upscale Italian restaurant that In nineteen seventy five was the marcus. Red Fox were standing in the parking lot. The restaurant has changed a lot. It's been remodeled and refurbished in the course Horsa forty-five years new ownership new new name. But this was the place Jimmy Hoffa spent his last afternoon. And it's a little eerie to stand here and think about that afternoon and what happened right here in this parking lot. From this point forward word. We don't know for sure what happened. Jimmy HOFFA HIS PONTIAC. Granville was found in the restaurant parking lot and he was seen by witnesses climbing into Maroon. Mercury Marquee the three men Hoffa was expecting Tony. Jack Aloni Tony Provenzano. And mob Associate Lenny Schultz. Never ever showed so. WHO DID HOFFA get in the car? With where was he killed. How was he killed? What happened to the body? What about a five hard minute? Drive north of the Marcus Red Fox restaurant or in front of a home along Lake Road were also in Bloomfield township. In one thousand nine hundred seventy five. This House was owned by a guy named Carlo Licata. He was a soldier in the Detroit. Mafia investigator journal Scott Bernstein. Believes this is the place where Jimmy offer was killed. I believe that I'm the afternoon July. Thirtieth Nineteen Seventy Five Billy Jack Loney Tony's brother Anthony Tony Pal Pelizzola. Oh who was a upcoming Detroit. Mobster that represented the vitality crew don in Greek town. As well as Salvator Sally Bugs Giulio who who is representing twenty Provenzano's Jennifer as crew picked Hoffa up. At the parking lot. The Red Fox enjoy Jacqueline's mercury marquee and enticed enticed him into the Car Lord Him to this meeting under the pretense that the meeting that they were supposed to have at the Red Fox had been moved down the street to the Lukasz again. This is a house that Hoffa had met Jack Colonia before he was familiar with the residency. had been to sit down here so it wouldn't have been odd to him to be told that and I believe he was taking here and probably killed pretty quickly upon setting foot on the property Possibly in the garage or right while he was walking into the house from the garage but recently Bernstein heard from a former mob associate of Lenny Schultz with a new story. He says Schultz told the mob. Associate back in the ninety S. That Hoffa was killed at Schultz's home in Franklin Michigan. Also a short drive from the Marcus Red Fox restaurant superiors according to Bernstein. This unnamed mob associate said quote. I they choked him out in the living room and gave the body to row in McMaster to get rid of suspicious. End Quote Bernstein. Says he has reason to question the reliability of this account and is still backing his Licata house theory as as the scene of the murder another popular theory about where Hoffa was killed was offered by. Franks Sharon in the book. I heard you paint houses. The New Scorsese Film. The Irishman is based on that book infractions. Telling of that day HOFFA was driven to a house in northwest Detroit where Sharon shot and killed him around the intersection of Seven Evergreen. which really doesn't make any sense to me? I can't source the house. You can't tell me whose house that was. Wherever they took him was going to be very controlled secured environment? Were the mobsters. That were perpetrating. The murder would be able to control every we factor every Every variable would have been secured and completely controlled the idea that they would take Jimmy Hoffa on a twenty minute drive from the Red Fox to that That house just doesn't make sense to me. HOFFA would not feel comfortable egg point to a house you never been to before be driving a a long distance journalist. Dan Monday doesn't believe Sharon either French. I'm sure Frankie Sharon did. That's pretty nasty word. I just don't think he's committed the murders these big murders. He's confessed on. Do not think he killed Jimmy Hoffa. The day. After Hoffa disappeared his family. We begin to believe the worst. This is James Hoffa junior when my mother called me on that morning and she told me that he had not come home all night and not called. I knew I could only draw the worst conclusions because that was not my father. It wasn't like Hoffa not to come home at night or at least call. There had been no word from him since the previous afternoon. We would also like to make ace. Special appeal to the two million brother and sister. teamster remembers for them to aid us. In solving this heartbreaking mystery our mother has courageously survive many doodles and our thirty eight years of marriage. We have faith that someone somehow somewhere can help us locate our father. Shortly after his disappearance Hoffa's family gave the F. B. I.. Calendar which hung on Jimmy Hoffa's refrigerator in the square for Wednesday July thirtieth it read red t j two PM presumably. I'm meeting with Tony Jack. Aloni who was also known as Tony Jack Jack Aloni later questioned by the FBI said there was no plan meeting. And that he was with Lenny Schultz at the Southfield. Athletic Club that afternoon. We're in front of travelers tower. Or this is on Evergreen at ten mile now back in the seventies the lower levels of this building where the Southfield Athletic Club. The Club is long gone. Closed up about twenty years or so but it was a hop in place in the summer of nineteen seventy five the unofficial headquarters for Detroit. My boss Tony Colonie. So I spent the entire day in Southfield Athletic Club former assistant. US Attorney Keith. Corbett and he was not a particularly approachable person in normal events but it seems like every fifteen minutes he was asking somebody in Southfield Athletic Club. What time is it now so that you could basically bring being in a parade of witnesses? Tony on asked me what time it was twelve fifteen pm. Twelve thirty PM somebody else. He asked me what time it was at. One o'clock talk in order to establish that he was present in the Southfield Athletic Club during the high period of time when Mr Hoffa disappeared so those are the kinds kinds of things that sort of Boston by any investigators head but nevertheless it was excellent alibi for healthy Jacqueline as to where he was in the days that followed Hoffa's disappearance the FBI. Question Tony Provenzano. He had people who swore he was in Union City New Jersey on July thirtieth. You've all day playing cards. The FBI was never able to verify that story. They began to focus on two men as Hoffa's suspected assassins Asan's Thomas Andromeda and Salvator Braga Leo both soldiers in the Genovese crime family. Who worked for Tony Provenzano Bre Guglielmo told the FBI that he was among those playing cards with Tony Pro in New Jersey? That day. Dan Day was a young reporter investigating the teamsters teamster pension fund around the time Hoffa disappeared after morning. Gulia was suspected of the murder. He says he called him up. At Brasilia's New Jersey teamster hall. SALGA comes on the phone and I said Mr Gulia. He's a WHO's this I said my name's sampled a reporter and He would you want to talk to me about. I said the Hoffa case talk about us. What makes you think I've got anything to say about that? I said because Mr Julia you've been arrested or divided and yet everybody is blaming you for this murder. Moldavia talked his way into a meeting with Braga Leo at Local Five Sixty Sixty in Union city New Jersey and I was in the waiting room and Rilya comes into the room. Little Guy tough off wiry and bill buffaloes with and I knew bill buffa Lena from the grand jury the previous year so I share a Guinea. How you doing nice to see you know how are you sir? Nice to meet you. R- often Lino and Bruguera. Leo then invited day at lunch. And so the three of them get into Purdue Leo's car and drive to a nearby restaurant and sitting at a table sales brother Gabe and their associate Steve Andromeda and I ago I'm going to get the interview with office killers and so we eat. You know they. They're checking me out and stuff off. They weren't they won't let me turn the tape recorder on at that point. And that would finally a record Vincent I was okay. We went back to the union hall. So it's is BE SALGA Leo. Steve Intra Bill Buffalo. You know and also we were joined by Sammy. Provenzano who's Tony Provenzano's brother and so then stevie during the interview introduces be to Tommy. So I interviewed these guys three and a half hours on tape shape on tape and and what became clear was what happened. Was Steve Andromeda. Who I don't believe was involved in the actual murder? I I think he was Tony. Provenzano's ally in New Jersey. I think Tom you're in. China was right there I think. Tommy dress-up was a participant surly surly Salads Salads. The killer recently. Anthony Provenzano Thomas. Sandra and the portfolio brothers were indicted by grand juries in New York and New Jersey on matters not directly related to the HOFFA case. This is part of the government strategy to try to crack the mystery through continuous pressure. Gulia was brought twice ice before a federal grand jury in Detroit Investigating Hoffa's disappearance. He refused to testify and the FBI never had enough evidence to charge him. He was murdered on the streets of little Italy in New York in nineteen seventy eight less than two weeks after HOFFA's disappearance appearance the FBI reported. They had found blood in the back seat of what they believed to be. The car that drove off to his execution a Maroon Mercury Mercury Marquee belonging to Tony. Jack Aloni Son Joey. The FBI also knew that on July thirtieth that car had been driven by HOFFA's surrogate August son Chuckie. O'Brien chucky was from the very beginning portrayed by the FBI in its public discussions of the case as is the person who picked up Hoffa and drove him to his death. And if you think about it. This is completely despicable thing. If Jackie did it Hoffa was the closest thing jockey ever had to a father. chucky revered Hoffa half I love Chuckie referred to him as the second son. This is Chuckie. O'Brien Stepson Jack Goldsmith. He's a law professor at Harvard and spent the last several years working on a book. About Hoffa and O'Brien chucky was a man who was basically. His adult life was defined by. Why his closeness to Jimmy Hoffa he met Hoffa when he was nine years old? He was by half aside from the early fifties until late. Nineteen seventy four. Through all of his sales he took Josephine Hoffa to see Jim Half in prison so he was. He was very very close to Hoffa. He was also close to Anthony Jack Loney whom he also met as a young man and He knew lots of the senior Detroit. Crime Figures Jackie. O'Brien is the son of Sylvia Pagano the Mafia paramore. We talked about back in episode. One Kagawa was the original contact between Hoffa and the Detroit. Mafia back in the forties. And eventually O'Brien became the bridge between Hoffa and Mobsters Tony Jack Aloni and Tony Provenzano. But in late. Nineteen seventy four. O'Brien and Hoffa had a falling out when chucky learned for the first time time Hoffa has always said that he supported jockeys efforts to have a position local to ninety nine but he really never supported chunkys efforts to have serious labor responsibilities in the Union. Chucky finally confronted him about that in at Thanksgiving and that basically led to them him parting. Ways here's O'Brien speaking to WD IV back in nineteen ninety three. He describes why he was driving. The Maroon Marquee on the they hoffa disappeared. July thirtieth is was the worst thing in my life. Chucky says he was in the process of moving to Florida and didn't have a car that day so we borrowed borrowed one from his friend joy. Jack Loney the son of chunkys Uncle Tony. He delivered to large frozen salmon. A gift from Seattle teamster to bobby homes in his wife in suburban Farmington hills. The fish was melting water and blood on the seat of the car. I'm carrying it in the House and she's a particular housekeeper and she's telling me you're ruining in Florida you're getting that water and blood overs later. Chunky says he had the car clean. Did a car wash. Not far from the Red Fox then returned the car and got a ride back to the home home where he was staying just a few minutes from the Red Fox bobby homes and his wife Violet. The recipients of the fish corroborated O'Brien story. I don't think Chuckie O'Brien would have would ever. I've heard Jimmy Hoffa under any circumstances. I think he would have died for Jack. Goldsmith can't say for sure sure that his step-dad is innocent of involvement in Hoffa's murder but says he is poured over grand jury testimony and FBI witness statements and piece together together. The time line of the afternoon of July Thirtieth Goldsmith believes O'Brien would not have had time to deliver the fish. Get the car washed Hiccup Taufa drive him to his death. Return the car to Joey Giacolone and get back to teamsters local two ninety nine by four thirty when witnesses say they saw him there for forty four years. The conventional wisdom really unquestioned in the public mind and repeated in book after Book and movie after movie movie and an article. After article is that Chucky did the suspect thing now. Of course chucky has for forty four years trying to deny it he alone among suspects talk. Talk to the FBI twice. He's trying to clear his name through going on television and denying it. He's tried everything he could and he wasn't able to and as I think I show in the book He he wasn't involved in the office parents and more important than the FBI doesn't believe that he is. They have reasons to think good reason to think he didn't do it. And that someone else was involved. But this great misconception persists unfortunately for him. No charges have been brought against anyone in Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance But one question has continued to prompt. FBI searches and conspiracy theories for over forty years. Where is the body? And that's the sound of Detroit's original steak steak and cheese being prepared freshly grilled for you warm. Your cell phone with a fresh grilled tubby steak and cheese sub today tasting is believing leaving tubbies Detroit original steak and cheese since nineteen sixty toppy says everything you need to make your party. Amazing Tubby sub shops offers catering packages for your office parties. Birthday parties special events. Enjoy Monster. Party subs party platters salads wings. Thanks just bake gourmet cupcakes. A whole lot more let tubbies cater your next party so you can have more fun. Visit TUBBIES DOT com for all the details in May of two thousand four. Police pulled up floorboards in northwest Detroit. Freud home but we did not uncover any evidence relevant to the investigation on James Hoffa in twenty twelve lease dug up backyard in Roseville. Say it has no credibility at all in twenty thirteen acting on a tip from our boss. Tony's really the FBI Doug on a forum on you'll road in Oakland Township all day long. The HOOPLA grew and grew once word spread. The date for Hoffa's remains had begun this again coming up empty. Why have there been so many seemingly credible tips? Scott Bernstein says it's because the Jack Aloni pros there's launched a campaign of misinformation to cover up the perfect crime so I believe the Jack Loney brothers were incredibly proud and they really war the fact that they pull this crime of the century off so successfully they really ward as a badge of honor and they really got their kicks out of tweaking people about it and you know my research tells me that. They launched a disinformation Asian campaign. From nine hundred seventy five and into the two thousands when they both passed away where they would you know intentionally tell thirty people thirty thirty different things and both billion. Tony knew that they were. They were tweaking they were they were gas lighting eighteen. Let's focus on three possibilities number one Scott Bernstein and Keith Corbett former assistant. US Attorney have come to the same conclusion. Okay rhenium Traumat- Hamtramck is widely known for police bakeries. But that's not why we're here. Today does not not much to see here now but this used to be eight. Two one five Moran in Nineteen Seventy Five. It was a model trash company. It was called central sanitation. It was owned by two Detroit mob lieutenants Peter Fatality and Jimmy Clause Rhino and they had these gigantic compresses for cardboard where they compress impress. Three four five tons of parboil at one time in shredded down to little pieces of paper and people were not thinking in one thousand nine hundred seventy five of DNA EH so full body in there. Just get crushed up in into pricing. A couple of months after half disappeared the place burning down. What a coincidence coincidence and you know the people in the insurance policy paid off you know and Everybody was happy then will dare has done his own research and says there's no way. The body was disposed of its central sanitation. Essential Sanitation was dismissed by the FBI in a Nineteen seventy eight in a very open statement. Where the FBI said this is not what we believe? We check this out and we have completely rejected. The central sanitation theory possibility number two a new character enters the story. A small time on criminal named Donovan Wells who died this past year in two thousand six and FBI search focused on a farm in Milford Michigan once owned by Union Leader and Hoffa enemy rolling McMaster Donovan Wells and his wife lived on that farm. Back in nineteen seventy five on the day of the murder Don Wells wife Ana. She's at the farmhouse. She's in the kitchen and she's washing dishes looking out towards Pontiac Jack Trail and she sees two cars come streaming out pontiac trail make a hard right into this dirt road into through this dirt road which goes all the way into the back of the farm and don well sold the FBI at the back of the farmer. These guys was a pre dug hole redouble so Monica Wells sees McMaster and she tells him a story talk about cheese. It was a strange thing. These cars came roaring up at McMaster. He said he basically threatened her. You know blondes. Who talked to you? Brush don't get old. You know so. He made some crack of it at one time. Donovan Wells was represented by a lawyer named named Jim Ellesmere. He says wells told him a similar story on July thirtieth nineteen seventy five in that farmhouse kitchen with his wife. Donovan Wells was convinced he saw Jimmy Hoffa's body getting buried. He observes out the kitchen window of mcmasters farmhouse. A Eh Beckel digging and then awaits sheet and Abbadi dropped into the whole. I believe that Hoffa was murdered on that. I think the cars roaring up. I think that was those were the death was those were the death. Awful is one of those cars and he was murdered the F. B. I.. Dug Up that farm and found nothing but Dan Mold Daya throws an interesting wrinkle into that episode. He says Donovan in Welsh showed him a diagram of the farm with the exact location of that whole worry claim to have seen someone dump a body a diagram the FBI used to pick their spot for the two thousand six excavation. And I'm looking at. I'm looking at Dan's diagram. The Got South in North Mixed up the barn was over here. They dug the averted the they adverted the NAP. The diagram that dod had dropped for them didn't bring him up from lexicon and they dug in the wrong place. Does that mean HOFFA's body might be buried on that farm and Milford Modena's says he now believes the body was is there originally but that it was then taken to a landfill in New Jersey operated by a guy named film of Scotto Mascot was a soldier in the East Coast Genovese crime family and he told Dan Moday about a day in nineteen seventy five when his friend Hitman. SALGA LEO holed up in a truck doc. And I'm sitting with till on his front porch. Got The tape recorder on. And so he tells me on tape that the gateway truck pulls up at his thumb and he and sal ago the fifty five gallon. Drums and Burien tells me that I was ready to what he says is ready to shut the to Australia to take taper her like like a football and put it under my arm my car and get out of there before this guy realized what it said to me and so I got to know Phil I got to know film Escada now. He gave me information with the frequency of a kosher butcher handing out pork sausages. But he gave me some stuff he told me he don't Jackal Oni basic as. He was driving the car. He told me Tony Provenzano. Yeah was a Detroit that day and he was close to Tony Pro now. There's a new twist follow along with me. Dan says he has been working with Frank Kapulua. He's the son of Paul Kepala. who was a business partner of film of Scotto? He's also working with film. Scotto son Phil Junior both frank and Phil Junior say their fathers others before they died told the sons the exact location where Jimmy Hoffa is buried. It's not clear why they've waited years to announce this but they've convinced lintz Daniel Day on his remains will be in at the bottom of that drum. And I've told all my sources whether it's feel junior or frank I I said no one gets any money until this is proven to be that there's a body there and that the testing the the biased by federal law enforcement authorities says that this is the one and only Jimmy Hoffa at that point you guys deserve the moon and the stars you guys deserve all the money you get all the reward money and I don't want any of it I just WanNa be the guy who has that that story. That's all I want. I want to be there at the dente Ma of this case and I wanted to be able to take a bow on this. I am unabashed about this. I deserve at this moment. There is no justice in this world. If I don't get this moment the FBI and a lot of other people remain sceptical. As of now there are no digs plan at that site and yes there are other theories. Okay we're on Jefferson Avenue in downtown tone Detroit. We're in front of the Renaissance Center of the Ranson. deathly looks a lot different than it did. Back in the summer of nineteen seventy five. The towers of this enormous complex now includes hotel and General Motors World Headquarters but in nineteen seventy five. It was brand new. It was under construction. And that's very important. There are people who will insist that Jimmy Hoffa was buried that summer underneath the rinsing the guy who sells the story the hardest that Jimmy Hoffa's office buried here is Marvin. The Weasel Elkin. Marvin was Jimmy. HOFFA's driver for five years Marvin says in the summer of nineteen seventy six. There was a convention downtown of teamsters. He was in the entourage of Tony. Jack Aloni he was there at this convention to light cigars and get drinks for all the big bosses. He says they're walking down here along Jefferson Avenue and Tony Jack Aloni stops and turns to the entourage voice. Say Good morning to Mr Hoffa. There's no question in my mind. Never has been exactly where he is. Will we ever know the answers or does the FBI already know the answers but won't share. We reached out to them. But we're told the bureau doesn't come on open. Cases is there anybody still around who could have pertinent information maverick. Many people bought the colonial gone. tacos Guy the people in New Jersey. A gun now. There may be some peripheral figures. All the main players have passed since So it's time time for the FBI to release all the funds well One of the problems with that and I understand the public's desire to know what's going on the Detroit right free press fought a ten year legal battle over. FBI files soft through the freedom of information. ACT The free press sued the government twice and finally finally the FBI was forced to release thousands of pages of Hoffa documents but many were so heavily redacted as to render them useless should should the FBI released the remaining hoffa files. The answer is yes. Or No depending upon who you talk to if you can't indict somebody and convict them you really shouldn't throw names out of the press and despite what we may see in politics today The US Attorney's office in the government should only speak when the hasn't indictment to bring against somebody and then let the jury resolve it. We'd never been in a position to indict. Anybody can actually hoffa disappearance so if the sealed files protect some group or individuals. I asked Dan will. Dr Who are we protecting your answer is i. Don't know which brings us to the final page of the Hoffer Story. This is the place in a novel. where a good Ryder ties up loose ends answers unresolved questions that have nagged at the reader for three hundred pages? But this isn't a crime novel and the Real World Rarely fits into a nice neat package for over one hundred years. Mafia crime has been shrouded in mystery and conspiracy. We get threads of information and that leads us down intriguing tunnel. Stephen Moore on answered questions Hoffa cases. No different which is why forty five years later and maybe for the next forty five years. Investigators will keep digging. Thanks for joining us us through this season of shattered. If you WANNA support our show please tell your friends. You can also leave us a review on apple podcasts. And if you want even more I shattered. You should consider joining shattered plus for just twenty five dollars a year. You get a bonus episode with each regular episode and also access access to the show without ads. Your support helps us. Keep making more seasons of shattered on episode five. Plus we interview a legendary teamster dissident. Ken PAFF has been working to reform. The teamsters since nineteen seventy six. He's the national organizer of teamsters for a the Democratic Union. The par of organized crime in this country is down when you're in New York City you don't have Italian mobsters running the show you got Wall Street. You got the banking industry. You got the oil corporations. They're running the show to hear that interview and a lot of other great material sign up for shattered. Plus today the go-to shattered podcast. Dot Com for more information. I'm Steve Garage. Sola shattered is produced an edited by. Zach Rosen and Jeremy Allen we want to thank all of the experts journalists and scholars. Who helped us tell the half the story Dan Monday? Scott Bernstein Heath Corbin Jack Jack Goldsmith Robert Blakey gymnasts merrick masters Elizabeth Foul Nelson Lichtenstein. David Whitmore and Marvin even the Weasel Elkin Marvin mostly because I just like saying Marvin the weasel. Oh and by the way if you should solve the Hoffa case can you let us know Auden. I sure love to know how this story ends

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