EP166: How to Turn Your Knowledge Into a Profitable Digital Course with Amy Porterfield


Welcome to the wellness business podcast simple strategies to cut through the online noise to fast track the growth of the wellness business with fear and panic and Kathleen Legris. Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the wellness business. PODCAST. My name is Karen padlocking. I'm here with my co host Kathleen Legris. Hey Kathleen. Here. And guess what it is a super special days today and you guys are going to find out why in just a minute Yeah, we're really excited. So let's just talk shop for a second guys since March of this year we've seen the world as well as our online businesses change in ways that we never imagined before the pandemic, having an online program as part of your wellness business was optional. But now as you all know, it's truly a necessity for consistent revenue and a successful coaching business. In recent weeks on the PODCASTS WE'VE Kathleen and I have scratched the surface of what it takes to take your coaching expertise online by incorporating a digital course into your offerings. But this week we're excited to dig in deeper by exploring how to turn your knowledge into a profitable digital course to explore this topic further were joined today by my digital course mentor Amy Porterfield. Amy Has Been My go-to person for course creation. Since the very first program, I created many many years ago and there have been lots of them along the way I know most of you already know her but I'd love to give her a formal introduction. Amy Porterfield is an online marketing expert and the host of the top ranked podcast online marketing made easy before building a multimillion dollar digital business. Amy worked with mega brands like Harley, Davidson and peak performance coach Tony Robbins. Oversaw the content team and collaborated on groundbreaking online marketing campaigns through her best selling courses and popular podcast. Amy's action by action approach proves that even the newest online entrepreneurs can bypass the overwhelm and instead generate exciting momentum as they build a business, they love welcome to the podcast. Amy, thanks so much for having me ladies and so delighted to be here. This is so great before we hit record like, oh my gosh, it's been almost a year since we had you on. So we're just so grateful now you're so busy. So we're just honored to have you back. We have all lot to talk about so. I KINDA WANNA kick it off with this like overall themes we can address some of the mindset things around building a digital course, and you probably find this with your students to most coaches that you know that that we know they fall into one of two camps they either they have lots of ideas and content for a course but they just. Aren't sure what they should include in the program right too much too little. They don't want to overwhelm their clients, Susta I one or they don't consider themselves enough of an expert so they can't imagine what they could possibly put into a course that their clients would pay for. So can you address each of the League? What advice would you give them? They're such good topics to discuss because if you're feeling that, believe me friend you are not alone. So let's talk about I the expert and the flip side of that is imposter syndrome thinking who am I to be creating this course? What are People GonNa think when I put myself out there as the expert I, don't have ten years of training in this or I didn't go to five years of schooling or I'm not the expert of all experts. There's other people that know more than me and all these things go in your head and you think I can't create a course based on my expertise and. Knowledge how and the answer is? Yes, you can my friend. So here's how you know if you have the knowledge, know how to create a digital course number one if you've gotten results for yourself and you can tell other people how you got those results then you my friend are able to create a digital course that can be profitable or you've gotten results for somebody else you worked one on one with clients. You are consultant you were a coach of some kind and you got somebody else results. You can create a digital course and teach others how you got those results now when you are thinking about. How much to teach or how little to teach her how much you put into a digital course. I want you to think of this if you're going to teach somebody how you did something you WanNa, go from Point A. where they're struggling they have a challenge. They're not sure what to do all the way to point B. which is they've gotten results they solve that challenge and your goal in digital courses to go from point a to point B as fast as possible with the straightest line you can think of so people aren't hunting impacting all over the web to get the answers. So let. ME. Give you a quick example, one of my students she's been my student for many many years and her name is Katrina and she was a busy female physician and Katrina was working nights crazy hours grabbing snacks on the go not working out and not getting enough sleep and she gained fifty pounds and so she was miserable and not happy and she wanted to change that and so on her own, she put together her own meal plan her own workout plan based on being a busy female physician, and over the next few months, she lost fifty pounds and then other busy female physicians said, tell. Me How you did it, how did you get that weight loss or weight off? We were crazy hours we never have time to eat. We never get enough sleep. How did you get this fifty pounds off? So she started to coach people one on one, but she started to realize holy cow. I've got a fulltime job. I can't do this one on one coaching as well. So she decided to create a digital course. Now Katrina will tell you she had zero experience with online marketing. She didn't know how to create a course or launch it, but she figured out step by step how to do. It and she put it together now fast forward to that story she made two hundred, fifty thousand dollars with one webinar launching this course online. But the real reason I tell you the story is she wasn't a registered Dietitian she hadn't studied exercise physiology for many many many years. She had a plan that worked for her she taught what she knew and that's people are looking for in a digital course teach what you know to get people results so that knowing how much to put into a course just put enough in there to get them from point eight to point B. as fast as possible. I love that and you brought up such a good point amy that I hear people say this all the time you probably do sure to Karen. That will what can I offer? That's not already out there people can just google disinformation while yeah, you they can. But like you said, it's to be hunting and pecking with bits and pieces but people want a system to follow they wanNA be led by. The hand step by step because who who has time to go and try and find every little piece of information they need yes. People pay for convenience and they choose who they want to learn from. If you build a relationship with them, they're going to gravitate toward you because they trust you you get them you understand them and they're paying for that connection as well as that convenience. Yes. Perfect. So good. gave me we surveyed our audience and ask them what it is. Exactly. That's holding them back from creating their own digital course and they have shared their stumbling blocks with us. So since you are our digital course creation mentor and I, can't think of a person out there that's better to answer these questions than you. I was hoping it would be all right. If we just ask them direct questions right from our listeners. Yes. Let's do it. Okay. So. The first question is from Kristen and she says, how can I avoid information overload for my client? When creating the program content I still need clarity of how many topics to have in the program so that I don't overload them and I know you Kinda just talked about that. But when they're thinking about how many topics, how many modules do you have some advice there? Yeah. So there's actually different. Okay. So When you're thinking about modules, how many lessons? How many videos the way you want to think about that is what kind of results do you want to get them and I know we're going to talk a little bit later about the different types of courses you can create. So we'll get into this in even more detail, but I'll give you a hint right now that basically if you want to get them a transformation. Total. Transformation not like full makeover transformation in their life or their business or their relationship or whatever. But you just want to get them momentum. Then you need to think about the fact that that's likely going to be a smaller course maybe it's two three modules and each module. You might have two to three videos just enough to get them the results that they need. Now, when we're talking about courses that are way bigger like the whole Shebang and huge transformations, that's when you're typically going to see five to eight. Different modules with three to eight, nine, ten different videos in each module. So they tend to be a bit heavier as the transformation gets bigger not always, but on the average. So a lot of people that are just starting now I encourage them to create a simpler course just to get people momentum and from there they'll tell you what they really want what they really want you to create an down the road. If you WANNA create another course that you charge more for your audience will tell you what they want. Yeah that's perfect. And we and we talk a lot about the on the podcast just about Beta launching to like start with just a small group of people and start with a scaled-down no bells and whistles coerce. That is really your test scores to get your feet wet and get the feedback because it's that feedback always that you could never anticipate what those clients are going to tell you like they give you so much insight to what they want and what should be in your course more than you ever could imagine on your own. Yes. Exactly that your audience will let you know what they want and when they do. That's where you have full validation that they're going to pay for it. Yeah that's the thing is did this test it? I think that's what people are. So afraid of it has to be perfect So kind of along those lines. So Karen asking I can't paddock a different Karen asked I'm slowly. My program. Now, how do I know if it is enough content is having too little content and actual concern. It's not a concern. As long as you know what you're giving them, they're going to get results. So the first thing you want to do is ask yourself what results M I Promise inside of my course now, I wanted to be clear that when you promise something inside your course that doesn't mean everybody's going to take your course. How you want them to take it and get to the finish line but those who dive in, do the work and don't give up what kind of results can they get from your course? So I you get clear on that we call the promise. So what are you promising from there? Then you back it up and say, exactly what do they need to know in order to get these results typically, you probably never have to worry about giving too little most first time course creators give way too much. So let me tell you if you ever really strip down course, but if they do this. They're going to get results I, promise you. They're going to get in your course and say, Hallelujah, thank you so much. I got time for a twenty hour course right now I need this. So the less content the better if you're getting results, people love that and that makes sense to would you rather get a result watching a fifteen minute video or would you rather get the same result of his through even a video so true I've been creating courses and teaching how to create courses for over eleven years, and one thing that I've changed along the way is back in the day when I started. Forty fifty hour long training video, multiple training videos, and of course, were totally acceptable and expected nowadays, and this is what I teach my students. When you create a digital course, make your videos seven to ten minutes maybe fifteen minutes Max and cut those down. If it needs to be thirty, make two videos, people feel more accomplished they can get to your training quicker. Oh my gosh I'm the same exact way I. It's funny too because you can either sit here and watch the sixty minute video. nope. I'd rather go through and watch five or six one. So there's this even if it ends up being the same time, it is still like you're accomplishing something watching the ones so true. Yeah. All right here's our next question, and this is a very common question I'm sure you hear it all the time and this one actually from amy. So it's funny that we have a Karen and we have a name. So, she says I have started so many courses but em so bad at completing them. What is your best advice for getting to the finish line? Okay. So this is a great question as to look through the Lens as a course creator. So if you yourself have purchased courses in haven't finished them for saw pretty sure. Every single one of us is guilty of that. But think about the courses that you have finished the courses that you have finished typically have what I call a new student onboard and sequence something. I teach in my program where from the minute people join your. Program you are corresponding with them. Either be text message email, slack a boxer in a facebook group. There's a way that you are reaching out to them on irregular basis and pulling them back into the program encouraging them to get back in and pointing out areas where they might get stuck. So when people go through my programs when they get to a certain module that I know is tougher than the rest, I pop into their inbox and. Say, I, know what? You're thinking this week you're GonNa dive into the module and you're gonNA think holy cow this is intense. You're right it is. Here's why you need to get through it. So I am their cheerleader I am the person that says, I know how you're feeling they hear from me often and other way to get people to the finish line is with like I mentioned a facebook group so we always have facebook groups For our digital courses so we can do facebook live QNA's we can answer questions we can be there for them I think what makes you stand out in today's world with the digital course is if for a period of time you go on the journey with them and it's really worth it because they tell you every area where they're getting stuck. So when you revamp the program, you know exactly how to make it better is really valuable. That's so good and I remember when you started. Incorporating on boarding and all that additional support and really mindset approach to digital course. Academy, which is the program that taught me how to create courses and so I remember when you started incorporating that and it was almost like you were reading my mind because there were moments when it felt overwhelming and you were you gave that encouragement and you just said think of it this way and that helped so much to get to the. Finish line and that's exactly what we need to incorporate in any courses that we create as well. So think about it from the customer's standpoint it's so true and there's also something to be said about really taking the time to understand your audience because one of my students her name is Melissa and her course is the P. C. O. S. root cause roadmap. So basically she helps women with polycystic ovary, syndrome, and she helps them change. Their Diet so that they can improve their health infertility. So she actually changed career she was a corporate girl and then got into this new career and if I fast forward to the punchline, she launched her course may twenty six thousand dollars with the really small email list. So her course was really successful but the reason her course was successful is because she understood her audience and to help understand her audience she put out a few. freebies she put out some content and the first time she did this she wasn't really getting many bites not many people were that interested in the content she was putting out there. So she started to understand her audience more and she realized the people that really gravitated toward her were genuinely interested in the root cause of Eos they weren't just interested in doing a meal plan. So when she offered a meal plan, they're like, yeah but. There's something deeper here. She's like those are my people. So she created a freebie where she got deeper into the root causes. It was a quiz to help them understand what the root cause was, and those were her people. So I tell you this story to say the more you understand your audience, the more successful, your digital course will be, and sometimes you gotta play with a little bit of content in the beginning to see what they gravitate toward. Yeah. Absolutely, that could take some time. So that means breathe. Take a little patience. You're not going to know everything from the start and I. think that's one big thing that holds people back, right? Well, what if it's not perfect? Well, that's guess what it's it's not going to be an it's not supposed to be not supposed to be. That's such a great point. Give yourself permission. Biggest stumbling block that we see, Terry asked creating integrating the sales page on a Webinar right all things tech that dreaded four letter word to act what do you say to someone that's allowing the tech to hold them back okay. I say two things Number One an entrepreneur. One of my mottos is I can do hard things. So I am not a techie kind of girl I can get deep down and entrepreneurial tech rabbit hole like the best of them but what I remind myself is I know I can do hard things and when this fills difficult I'm just going to stick with it because I can figure it out. So I have to believe in my ability to do it and I see other people online and I think if he can do it so can I or if she can do it so can I like I start to get a little bit competitive? I'M NOT GONNA. Let this stop me in my tracks but the other thing I'll say is that you've got to simplify your technology and this is one thing. I teach my students we're not GONNA use a lot of bells and whistles for. Our first. Launch we'RE NOT GONNA use sophisticated technology. We don't need a fancy Mike. We don't need a fancy camera and we sure as heck don't need fancy webinar equipment to make it work. WE'RE GONNA Strip it down and do it in the simplest way possible and the reason for that is once you figure that out, you're willing to add a few bells and whistles that might be really cool to do but the first time out start you in your tracks because you're new at it. So the advice I give to my students is let's keep this. As simple as we can. Now, in my programs, I have a resident tech guy his name is Dave and he's got the smoothest voice that you could ever find and he's patient and he walks people through it. Click by click by click because I know this is a stumbling block. So also when you want to do something find a teacher who's GonNa be patient with you if this is your hangup find someone who gets it that will walk you through every step of the way and not just gloss over the tech that she's GonNa frustrate you even more Yeah and the Nice thing is pretty much any platform. You could even think to us, they have video tutorials, I. Know It's easy thing. Oh my gosh I need all these things that. I found myself doing this to over the years and ask yourself. Okay wait let's take it back. What is the easiest way for me to get started because otherwise you you delay delay things for weeks for months and think about all those people you could have helped during that time. So true and I love that you just said that every technology these days will have how to videos and how. To videos are good I back eleven years ago they were terrible but now they know that so many newbies. So many beginners are getting into this world because this is such a great time to get into the online world and create courses and create your your offers online. So they're slowing down in their the how to's are better than ever. So Bank on that as well. Yeah, for sure. Perfect. So our K. she says I want to do a program, but it feels too heavy right now, what are my options now amy before you answer this last question I thought this might be a good time to discuss the different program or course types that are available to us. I think a lot of coaches think every program needs to be a huge all the bells and whistles signature program with a lot of modules long videos, and that's a total misconception and I had that same misconception in the very beginning and it wasn't until I started going through digital course academy that I learned that that isn't the case and what A relief because now I've created all different types of programs but I was wondering if you could share a little bit more about that in the different types of programs to try to give our listeners and our k some ease of mind as far as what it takes to create a course. Yes I love this question. Okay. So I teased it a little bit earlier, but now get down into the details. So there are essentially four different types of courses to create, and then when little extra to get your feet wet if you like that idea. So first of all, there's a starter course in a starter course is really What I did with my very first successful course, I had a few crash and burns, in the beginning but the first time, I, had a successful course. It was a facebook marketing one zero one course. So just enough to get people started with facebook marketing but I wasn't building out their marketing plan I wasn't getting him huge transformations I wasn't diving into all the details just enough to get them started and it was priced at ninety seven. So a starter courses really usually between a hundred dollars to two hundred dollars it's a no brainer price for most and you do not need to throw everything in the kitchen sink in. there. So this is a really great way to get people into your world to start exploring who you are, what you're about how you teach and where you can offer value. So this is my favorite way to start your first digital course is with a starter course. The second type of course is spotlight course. This is taking one idea and going deep into it. So this is an example of the second thing I did when I was creating courses. Once I had a facebook one. Oh. One course my students started to say we like this but really what we want to know is facebook ads like specifically can you teach? US facebook advertising, and so I created a spotlight course where I just focused on that one main topic and the proud of this if we look at pros and cons, the pro of this is you just can focus on one thing and go deep. So you don't have to cover everything in feel overwhelmed in. So that's a huge pro on that one. Typically, spotlight courses are anywhere between two hundred and five hundred dollars, and then from there, you've got the signature course I, call this the Mac Daddy course, and with the signature course it is the whole Shebang, you are promising a total transformation so if we're looking in the Health and wellness world it might be how to lose fifty pounds or how to fully overhaul your diet or how to become a vegetarian or it might be the whole holistic like mind body spirit type. Of course, we're going to tap into all of that and you're promising transformation the end typically, this is from five hundred dollars all the way up to three thousand dollars and even more sometimes, and then the fourth type of course is a certification course. This is where people are going to go through your program and be certified to become something or something that you promise them that they can have a certificate and actually tell. People I've gone through this program this training here's my certificate. This is Mary advanced. Most people will never ever start here. You typically have many years of experience under your belt before you'd ever venture out into something like that, and then I promise you and idea to get your feet wet. One thing you can do is a workshop course in a workshop course is just a one hour or two hour training that you might charge one hundred, maybe two hundred dollars for and you typically deliver a workshop live. So you can think of it as like a paid Webinar people pay for it in advance they get a link to. Your Life Experience and they show up in, you teach them live, and then from there you do a QNA. So they ask questions and typically this is one very specific area. Let's use an example how to meal prep for the entire week how to shop had shoes the food had a planet all in advance how to stay on a budget how to get the food cooked into mill prepped in in your fridge like you could do a whole two hour workshop on that and people would pay for that because it's very specific and specialized. This is one good way. Had IT Kinda get get your feet wet with the digital course? ooh, that sounds like a kid that was so good at killing me I want to recast. So number one was a starter caught course that's like your entry level kind of one one type program number two is the spotlight course where you go deep on one topic three is your signature courses a total transformation and number four is a certification course which is more advanced and then number five, which I really love the workshop course I paid Webinar, and that's another great way to test your course idea. Yes for sure and don't get so hung up on. Well, am I, created a starter course or spotlight. Does it matter but it just for a course creator, it's a good place to start but let me give you an idea of what may be a spotlight course would look like. So one of my students her name is Maria and she actually had a brick and mortar workout studio. So she had this workout studio and she was very specific about who she served and I think this is something else we should talk in terms of. Getting, clear on who you want to serve, she wanted to help moms to be so pregnant women and postpartum women about a year. After they've given birth, she wanted to help women that were in that period of their life work out in Phil healthy and move their body, and so she had this brick and mortar people would come into our studio and actually even before. Cova. Did she realized a lot of pregnant women want to work. Out at home, they don't WanNa Waddell into the studio and kind of get all especially if they have kids at home, that's an added stress. So she served the MOMS and she realized this this is what they want. So she actually took her business online she started creating fitness programs for again, MOMS to be postpartum women and she said, you know, amy, this is a very unique group I needed to understand them and I being A. Mom of three could understand what they're going through. I knew their challenges I've gotten results for myself. 'cause there were certain areas that they were maybe struggling with or concerned about and she had lived it. She had gotten results in her own life. So she started to teach this online and she did multiple launches the first time she launched it thirteen thousand dollars and she's like I think I can do better. So she launched the same. Program again, fifty six, thousand dollars should not no I can do better than that and now I'm getting better at what they want in terms of the Webinar in the marketing in how to talk to them third time she launched it three, hundred, thirty, two, thousand dollars. Wow. This is a fitness program for pregnant women. Now I tell you this story because one you can always take a concept to understand your audience and turn it if it is something physical. Turn it into an online experience, but more importantly I stand by the fact that you only need one digital course to be profitable. We talk about all these different types of courses like Maria with their spotlight course it's spotlight course because it certain exercises just for pregnant women she's going deep in that one area, but she launched it over and over again, I'm a huge fan of encouraging students to take a course when you've got a little little success that. She had thirteen thousand dollars, which is great for a first time, a course creator, and then she thought, okay, I'm not going to chase the next shiny thing. I'm not going to change direction. I'm going to stay in his lane and do it over and over again that is literally how I have seen my success and how she did to one more thing John Wayne launch, of course over and over again if you use webinars to launch your course you. Will See your email list skyrocket because every time you do webinars people opt in for your webinar whether they buy or not on that. Webinar. If they're still on your list are more likely to buy the next time you launch. So I have such a engaged big email list because I launch over and over again the same thing and I attract people into my world with each of my launches. So it's a list builder as well as a money maker. Yeah, just exactly what you described as another example of how to simplify things not just simplifying your course but how much more does that simplify your entire business and we hear coaches say this all the time well. GOSH PEOPLE GONNA. Get tired of me running the same program over and over again well, no because not everybody is ready right now actually you yeah, going to continue to build your analysis and bring New People in. But when you have one program that works really really well and you rinse and repeat, it's like Hallelujah. Yes it's so true and it makes like you said it makes everything so much simpler. Oh Gosh don't we all need that? Hey Man. I know you designed a two minute quiz that based on our listeners level of expertise in all goals tell them the exact type. Of course they should create an it's called. Your personal path to creating a profitable digital course. Can you tell us a little bit about the quiz and how it helps coaches overcome that feeling of a digital course just feeling so heavy and overwhelming? Yes. Okay. So if you are a coach a consultant of any kind and you're thinking about creating digital course, this two minute quiz is g is going. To genuinely give you a personal assessment of how to get started with the digital course. Now, let me just warn you not everybody is perfect for a digital course, and if you're not quiz, we'll tell you so so just know they're you're GonNa get an honest assessment of where you're at in terms of your journey, your audience and your business and from. The results let's say you are ready for a digital course the best part of the quiz, you will get your marching orders are the three things you can do right now to get that ball rolling because one of the questions I get asked a lot is amy I'm thinking about creating a digital course, but this is four and to me I have. No idea how to get started and so the quiz if you are ready for a digital course, the quiz, we'll tell you how to get started in what exactly you should do to take your next steps. Yeah. I love. That is so good and I love it that this is like a fake quiz isn't like Oh and you need a course and So true it's so true and so guys listen. We're going to hook up the link for the quiz on the show notes page at WBZ podcast com forward slash one, six six and I really encourage you to take the quiz. I just took it today as a matter of fact, and I know Kathleen Planning on taking it here in the next couple. Of Days and it's really interesting because I have a course in my mind that I wanna be creating between now and the end of the year, and that's my goal and so I thought well I'm just GonNa Start at the very beginning I'm going to approach this quiz and I'm going to see what it tells me that I need to do so. Go to the quiz take the quiz and there are a couple of things that we want you to think about when you start taking the quiz and when you start thinking about to turn your knowledge into a profitable digital course. So number one again and amy mentioned this earlier who is your ideal client? Who's person that you want to serve with your course and what problem are you solving and The quiz may actually even help you narrow that down as far as what problem are you solving, and how can you go about solving it and actually getting that information into a course and then next what type of courses best suited for you and your client based on Amy's quiz and the results are amy I have to say this quizzes amazing i. mean it just went everything I needed to. Know it was in that document that I was taken to that page when I finished the quiz and it was so interesting. I. Really Love this quiz. It's so good. You did a great job on. Well, thank you. We poured our blood sweat and tears into that because I want people to feel really confident if they're going to move forward with the quiz, how do they do this and if? They're not right for his, what should they be doing instead? So I I'm really excited for your your listeners to take this quiz for sure and it's the perfect place to start to start narrow narrow things down. So if you feel like you have a bunch of Mumbo jumbo in your head and you feel like you're scattered all over the place when it comes to course creation start with the. The quiz because once you are clear on the and the path that you need to be taking the rest of it really does fall into place pretty easily that doesn't mean that it's not work. But when you have a clear vision of what your course actually is, then the work becomes spun it. Feels like it's a challenge or that it is work it becomes enjoyable and something you want to spend time on every day yes. So true. Right Amy. So is there is there anything else you can think of that you think is important for audience to know for them to turn their knowledge into a profitable digital course. I'll tell you this. I believe that everybody has a profitable digital course in them, and with that I think the only barrier between you completing a profitable digital course getting out into the world versus you not doing that is believing in yourself. So the topic is not the most important thing you've got to believe that you are capable of teaching y you know and my friend hint you are. So you've got a really believe in that and when that imposter. Syndrome and we all have those moments starts creeping in and you hear that voice who do you think you are to create a course like this all you need to do is say watch me just watch me I'm getting get this done I'm going to get it out into the world. So you gotTa believe in your capability to do so which already believe in all of you so make it happen Oh, I, love it I. Love the Competitive Spirit Let. Let's go. All right. So once again, you can find the link for amy's quiz on our show notes page by going to WB, podcast dot com forward slash one, sixty six it's called the what's your personal path to creating a profitable digital horse and and I promise you if you're not right for course at this time, Amy's going to let you now but she's still going to give you a path he's going to let you know what you should be working on if you're brand new and you're not ready for core shat she's going to give you a path for that as well. So it's very exciting. Amy Thank you so much. It's been so wonderful having you back on the podcast a second time you know I always love chatting with you and hanging out whenever we can so much fun. Thank you ladies for having me. I. Always Love to be here. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate it. Take care. Thank you for listening to the wellness business podcast for show notes and three resources visit WB PODCAST DOT com.

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