1233 Dental Ergonomics by Dr. Anik Ball, Founder at Optimum Dental Posture : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
Did you know more than sixty million. People are candidates for teeth today. Don't miss your opportunity to take the most complete all on four course available from surgery to marketing learn from the best at four a._m. Institute dot com. That's the number four capital and institute dot com. It's just a huge honor for me to be podcast interviewing dr and nico ball beaty s._c. Diplomat clinical hypnosis advanced diplomat in alexander studies. She's the founder at optimum dental posture in melbourne australia practicing general dynamics general dentistry periodontics and dental sleep medicine and it goes suffered frequent neck back and and shoulder pain for decades doctors and physical therapists offered short-term symptom relief without identifying her condition. <hes> as work related eleven years ago. Oh aniko was declared a hopeless case. She was told anti-inflammatory medication. Surgery were her only options. Fortunately she found out about the alexander technique and received the right help to recognize harmful work posture habits learned about bio mechanical design and how to apply inner or or erg onomic the principles and she got well three years later aniko undertook a sixteen hundred our part time course over four years at the melbourne alexander school gaining being in advanced diploma and founded optimum dental posture to save her dental colleagues from suffering occupational chronic pain trained in mind body calming techniques center aniko teaches dentists and their teams around australia and new zealand how to reduce occupational chronic pain and stress. Her vision is the integration of inner ergonomics and wellness and dentistry trained in the undergraduate curriculum of dental schools. Thank you so much for coming on the the show. I'm will be fifty seven next month and a lot of us. Older guys are paying a huge price. My neck is trashed because i oh you know my big ten pound ball bowling bowl head. I just leaned over and was looking direct and you're right now podcasters or or young so a quarter of the people listening right now are still in dental school. The rest are all under thirty. What could you say to them so they don't end up like me at eh fifty seven and you were. We trashed our bodies trying to do dentistry well first of all i am. I'm delighted to be talking with you and thank you for the invitation what i need to say and i have a lot to say that he will help young end middle and older than this but something that you may not be aware of how is that the young star in more trouble than our generation when i started teaching optimal donald posture training programs i expect that my generation to be flocking to my courses and what i'm finding is that young dentists who are barely out of dental school mostly the participants in my workshops and they are in more pain than you and i have ever been and i have i will talk about. I thought wow this is happening. Does that surprise you. Will you know i never thought about it until you said that because i guess you think of your own personal framework but yeah i see with kids a lot of times we we were all playing in the park and on the farm and exploring and they're basically just sitting there looking at their phone so i would imagine agean with the cell phone revolution that they get a lot less physical movement that is one big part but also the way they look at their cell phones and mobile devices they take that had to the device and spine wasn't designed for that so that's one of the reasons i believe and they're just not so active these days they often leave in virtual reality instead of being out there kicking a ball or doing something something but also and this has been a very big surprise and disappointment to me is that most dentists these days where magnification loops and and the young donald students begin to use them already and first second and third year dental school. I'm finding that the declaration angola angle of these loops is insufficient which forces young students and dentist to bandera neck in ways that the neck wasn't designed for are. Are you aware of this problem. This is something i only relies in the last two years. <hes> this is huge. Yeah the angle. I i know that when you get loops you should to have someone come out and custom. Take the measurements and try to avoid all that stuff but i know a friend of mine right here in phoenix he he had to go to a microscope because he could no longer bend his head. He has to look at it. Almost as submarine perria scope he can set up straight look straight ahead and the microscope which you can adjust from one x two x looking down and then i have another buddy in town who set up a video equipment and just like my podcast studio we as a screen on the wall so the video looks so he's operating looking at the big screen because he has back back problems and all that stuff so so what do you think of all the old guys that are in their fifties and sixties and seventies who went and had surgeries injuries. They had their many there. <hes> spinal server goal vertebrae fused together because of dentistry well this is this shouldn't have been happening. <hes> first of all we should be learning in dental school has to get our payroll defies enhance over to the patient without twisting our bodies into a pretzel and something again that most people don't know and i solely work that way. That's why in pain for decades already asset dental student are suffering because most right-handed dentists will twist over to the right and ben their spine and especially especially their survival spine and of course we do terrible things with the shoulders and we can talk about that later so <hes> my my recommendation is that as early as possible which should be learning what not to do and what is required is very simple knowledge of biomechanical economical design principles and i call this in order gonna mix one. Oh one it's not rocket science which should know where are very important joint sod and which joints are designed for bending and which are not so coming back to your question about older than this already had spinal surgery for them. It's more important than ever to look after their restored spine and do all the right things both in dentistry and away from dentistry because what i see see how this debt than doing damage in the clinic and also outside the clinic with various habits whatever we do we tend to do it without thinking pat ourselves and my most important message. Is you audio most precious instrument. I see this taking better care of their cars and eh hen pieces than themselves. Yeah <hes> yeah i mean i don't even get me start on that. When you don't spend your own money on it you don't and have been in the game. I mean when you look at dentists when their employees and they go to seminars they just sit there on their iphone all day when they owned on the dental practice that they take notes and it's sad that humans own your own house own your own car and get totally involved in it but then they turn their healthcare over were to other people and they don't actively get involved in own it <hes> yeah the the incentives are messed up in medicine but yeah yeah and then you you go you go to these people with all the twenty richest countries like your country of australia new zealand and canada and in the united states and their healthcare cost or exploiting you say will if you just had a five percent co payment. They get less surgery. I mean you you walk into an eighty year old man and say well. Your knees got arthritis. You need a fifty thousand dollar knee replacement then go well. You're the doctor but if you said but you have to have a ten percent copayment you gotta pay five thousand of that fifty thousand well. How many men have forget that. I'm not paying five thousand dollars then walk out of there and then and then other people think well. That's abusive. He should have free. Will there's no pushback. There's no him saying well. Maybe if i lost weight or maybe if i quit smoking or maybe i should join a gym. I mean i gotta pay ten percent of this fifty thousand dollar hip replacement knee replacement. May you know what i mean so they don't or have any economic incentive but but so now you think these younger dentists are going to have it worse than than we did they already they do whenever i i run workshops or i often present to hundreds of <hes> dentists and often percentages young guy or was a show of hands who is having pain discomforting lang whatever symptoms in various body parts and you would be shocked to see what happens almost. They're almost almost as a single dentists who stand hands stow-n-go up many times. I've also being in melbourne dental schoolteaching or health therapy students who are not only in dental student clinic and all of them one hundred percent out of fifty five four who the hand up for four different in pain locations so this typically what i'm finding among young dentist sit and not just mild pain severe pain and i'd like to just come back briefly to your question about about loops is not enough to be measured that first of all people should dante should never buy loops online or eh dental expos because you should be measured up in your practice. However what i'm finding to my great disappointment is that the people who come out have to measure you have no idea about bio mechanical design and they set up even though they'll measure you're inter pupil ery distance. They seem i'm to set up the declaration angle fuel working in front of you and north down where the patient's mouth is so there is so what most most people don't understand and manufacturer certainly don't is that are less you using a periscope type arrangement for example microscope or there is now type of loop calls pantex made by heuer which is like an upside down periscope buddy salute alessio using one of those you cannot sit upright and hope to look into your patients math without damaging your neck and anyone who is using regla loops should be people think for with their hip joint without twisting and bending the spine and then look down from the top of the spine which she's just at the height of the ear so if you imagined that there was an imaginary rod between your ears that's where the has can actually look down from the top often spine and there's only at ten degrees freedom to look down beyond that you're damaging yourself i call spine and the declaration angled that's required ed is is about forty five degrees and most loops do not have that i have not yet seen fixed loops death understand and that varies the amount they need to provide and of course dentists that would have to rise the amount of declaration angle if they're sitting uprise. They can't possibly look after themselves. We'll get this. I notice a lot of times. If you say the word ergonomic to dentist i say oh yeah i already got the chair like like y- if they buy they buy something a chair they they can check that category off so would try try to <hes> explained this dentist listening to you. Thanks oh. I don't have a posture problem. <hes> this year. You're talking about somebody else and they do it right now. It's above their comprehension. How how could you paint a picture so this young dennis listening to you knows if that's them mm-hmm or not well yes. That's a very good question and i'll start with my own story. After having decades of pain i i asked my locals analysts sociation to send out somebody who could advise me about it. We're gonna mix and someone came out from work health and safety and looked at the bench height and my dental chair didn't actually look at what i was doing and i was twisting myself into a pretzel and years later when i started training in the alexander technique and looking at what i was doing inside myself i realized that all the research and development walkman in dental organics has been about the outer about the dental chair the stool the instruments which are very important. I'm by the way and we can talk about the separately a lot of what is supposedly organically designed outdoor. I call all this outer. Gonna alex is not economically designed not respecting bio mechanical design and then i separate that what's what we're doing inside ourself awesome daddy stage dentists efficiency imposture amusement is the inner gonna mix and that is just as important as the outdoor gonna comics so the way you sit how you hold certain instruments the way you bend over the patient what you're doing inside yourself is very important than being completely overlooked and what i spend all my time in his teaching dances had to organize themselves from the inside side out so that they're not damaging themselves and of course there are times where there's an outer and inner comic interface such as the ed magnification loops or dental stool that i investigated because no matter how well you've learned to sit at the hip joint look into the the patient's mouth if the declaration angle is north right off your magnification loops or the dental stool is truly hopeless many are than you. You can't look after yourself but my focus is on the comics and so on your website. What could my dentist homeys find if they went to optimum dental posture dot com. I assume it's just a picture of me sitting and my dental chair perfectly at this point or my website people will find and <hes> some information about often posture and the various programs that are available at this point. I haven't put all my postings <hes> <hes> on my website which i will do the best way that this can educate themselves on water will make a difference is if they look me up on on facebook and both on there my name and also on their optimum dental posture facebook page i have a lot of postings postings with tips and advice and techniques i do post links in however link is now limiting the word count on any posting stink and the time so i give up because nathan cat out too much when did when did they do that in the last two years that microsoft bottom and as as an american i'm <hes> you know when when i see bill gates out there and he's gone around the world trying to get rid of these and everybody's like oh. He's a new gandhi yeah. This is the guy that during my entire business career for thirty years every time they release software just filled with bugs filled with errors filled everything usually you'd give microsoft two or three hundred dollars for software to pay someone three thousand dollars just to patches stuff together are so you know when america when microsoft buys accompany the world gets another chrysler. They're not gonna get a mercedes benz or not. Gonna get alexis. They're gonna just so when they bought linked. The first thing i thought was oh god now. They're just gonna and now you're saying. They limited the word count. Absolutely i used to post ah lots on on linked in now a lot of the time. I don't bother because it's not even worth count. It's it's character count so it's it's ridiculous so so wait. Do some countries like germany japan just want to build an excellent product and america's just known for man of show bite at that price just sell it toured after work right. I mean where does that. Come from and talking about dentistry. Yeah i mean i know <hes> <hes> you were talking about microsoft buying lincoln. It's just just embarrassing. We we'll we'll go back to <hes> i think if you want here's my thoughts on lincoln that <hes> the dentist are on dental town facebook. Whatever but if you're in the president if you're the manufacturers if you're the whole rest of the value you chain the dental manufacturers dental insurance. You know anybody who's not in clinical dentistry. The hands are on lincoln and i appreciate the forty thousand dentists who follow me on lincoln. It's a very unique crowd. <hes> then the <hes> the dennis we have on dental town <hes> but but back but let's go back to these <hes> these young kids <hes>. Do you think the <hes> or the winner the first in pain i mean is is paying the first time they realize that something's wrong. Does it take pain well a lot of students right to me so i receive emails and and facebook messenger contact from dentists and dental students all over the world especially from australia of course and many of them already in second and third year as soon as they start using loops and he said there's a company selling loops at ridiculous discount forty percent discount discount and of course the students by the irresistible and the declaration ankle is completely wrong. It's fixed through the land so it can't be adjusted and they're in pain. Unfortunately by the time people feel pain. Trauma has been happening for some time. This is called cumulative trauma. Every time we are doc twisting our bodies repeatedly or holding postures that we're not designed to hold than damage is happening at the cellular level and it accumulates so by the time you feel it. It's been accumulating for some time and so pain and stiffness are warning signs but it's already been happening sure so my name is gone. No so you basically what you're saying is that the loop has to be adjustable from the glass. It cannot be fixed glass. Well it could be a thief manufacturers and reps who fit them understood what is required otherwise <hes> i'd recommend these days to buy adjustable provided the loops have got enough enough to adjust ability because some adjustable loops don't have enough adjustability some have no space that sits right above your nose and if you don't have a small nose or some irregularity on your knows it will be limiting the adjustment and i've seen this and unfortunately how defendants dan dentists who have adjustable loops don't actually know how to adjust it so when dentists come into my programs the first thing i do is i adjusted for them and would you believe and this is absolutely crazy that the companies who make adjustable loops provide a dentist we such shallow kissed that even once it suggests us that in order to feed back into the case they take it out of adjustment so i'm talking to all the different dental companies or companies that make loops and explain <hes> into them that they need to improve their products improved their case. I'm calling all the companies that i get a chance to communicate with accountable table they they haven't been looking after this as well as they should have <hes> so. What's the list of those companies there's <hes> who would you say the big the big loop czar or skeptic or copy copy and trying to educate in australia korea day have no idea what is required. It's fine. If you ought to ask certain operates on an operating table or your jeweler or a dental condition and your work is in front of you at your desk highs but it's not suitable for dentists orosco optic has been making fixed loops at the insufficient declaration angle settings and i've had a number of conversations with australian orosco optics. I and i'm hoping i make change us at the moment they can provide sufficient angle. I've finding hi. Ni understands <hes> biomechanical mechanical design principles. Does hi ni h- h e and hey g. I n e heine said ed. German company distributes through iva clark in australia. Okay so heine in your dental loops through yes these aught adjustable and they have a good amount of adjustability. I have tested it and you can definitely get the correct declaration angle now the first one you said or skeptic do they sell adjustable or is it all fixed as far as i know of only seen fixed and at this point i don't recommend their fixed loops okay and and the cds heine hind dental adjustable loops there they are and who i guess a superior career made product was from germany. I just really really surprised <hes> so <hes> i'm talk very and by the way how about just like to say that on not associated or involved with any dental company i- i fiercely protect my independence so that i can critique everything from perspective of in a row what's truly for dentists will good. That's <hes> that is <hes>. It's amini. I the one thing i've noticed the most in my <hes> short time on earth is the how much trust is gone. I mean it's just it's amazing. How many people i mean you you tell them anything and they don't trust sources. I mean they so it's great to see people people that are still focused on the need for trust another one. You didn't mention was on surgical asserted tallies the company company that has got this no space. I thought initially that surgical an hi ni had the same amount of adjustability but the design of search cell is such. That's no space which sits right above your nose. Any spot of the adjustability design is won't to work for certain people who have got unusual shaped noses or larger noah's so that that was that was was surgery. Tell yes yeah yeah now or sculpting that got bought by kerr and that got bought by <hes> dinner her and they're spinning off their dental donald division this month and so it's always not a really great sign when the parent company wants to spend you off because they want to focus on on someone else but surgery tell that that's still ran by the founding father her. Have you talked to him. I've only talk to the australian manager and i very honestly give feedback. My interest is to improve companies abilities. I offered for example. Laura scope dick free training to all their reps just so they understand what they need to do. I i am happy to feedback to any company and did they take you up on that. Well or sculpted didn't for about two years australia. Manager has had a conversation with me. I'm not sure what it will take to make changes. Okay well. I just i just sent you an email to the owner of surgical i i can't. I'm that guy he. He's more obsessed with the. I mean he's so into this. I can't imagine him not wanting <hes> to learn all about it from you so i'll send you an email him. Thank you yeah and but i'm so so we talked about out or sculpted serge l. Hainan optic upped its neck in <hes> in germany in any other ones so so i i have yet to investigate zeiss adjustable loops however recently i was in tasmania training then all team i go out to practice practice and train teams and several of the dentists had the adjustable loops and i was quite impressed with the adjustability. I i have some <hes>. <hes> dennis friends like craig steichen in albuquerque who is is a just an amazing a hunter and i didn't know what to get him for his birthday one time so i bought him the zeiss binoculars benach killers and it just blew away i mean he can't believe <hes> that <hes> they were that good. I mean it just it just amazing but <hes> so you so so what <hes> what has the company zeiss had they been accessible and available to well they they approached me last year and wants to meet with me and they had big plans and then nothing happened. This has this. This is something that's happened. Many times aligns death companies are break into guests. My input and i'm so happy to do that so i don't charge for my time. It's my pleasure to make a difference to any product. That helps helps dentists and quite often. Nothing happens <hes> and is that does that. Does that. Make you ville bad or or how do you how do you deal with that. I have very good at that howard. I just think that sooner or later something will come mafia. I think of sewing seats and i keep spreading my messages companies. Get in touch with me and eventually they'll call me back again yeah so carl zeiss have a lot i've had the best luck is just seeing them in their in their own environment i mean i mean that's why when you when you go see those companies you get a c. <hes> like when you walk in there is a clean is. Is it available do they do they. <hes> you know. Just what does it look like and i've <hes> i've just done that like my dad did with us but <hes> i've taken my boys ways to at probably every major dental like when we went to melbourne where you live <hes> you know you had the largest biggest international dental company sti and so i went over sti who who's sti and the guy didn't know me from adam and his name was cheetham. He invited me and he showed me the whole facility with. I think i had two or three of my boys and at the time his daughter was about my age and she was <hes> <hes> in the workings now samantha is the is the ceo of that company. She's podcast levin eighty-one but when you walk into the facility lately here's what i learned learned about american companies when you walk into a german or a japanese company had ten guys in lab coats and they were p._h._d.'s but they didn't have a marketing department aren't they didn't have a telemarketing no outbound cells. No graphics just not just aren be that with the belief that if you make good it'll sell then you go to american companies that do a hundred million dollars a year not one p._h._d. And then you walk in a room and there's like thirty people telemarketing dialing for dollars and they have a goal own a thermostat and they're trying to do this and there's raw raw. You know it's like an americans can sell anything and then you go to china and their home. The deal is we will make this so cheap. You'll just buy it because it's so cheap and a and a lotta times it's cheap. I just think the world needs look at what china's doing and try to make things lower price they need to look at what germany japan do and make them higher quality and the need to look at america just on marketing and advertising and if you blended the three three of those strategies together you'd really have something but americans are but like zeiss in germany. I mean some of these german dental factories. I've i've seen it. Just i mean you see anything like that in the united states <hes> but have you gone down to s._d._s. In your own backyard there and met with samantha cheat them no. I haven't what i tend to do is i. I'm usually presented at dental congress and i have outside my presentation and teaching time i i walk around and made all the older displays of companies and boots and talk to all the people who are making anything that's relevant to dental or agronomic so i don't look at materials as such but i look at the way instruments saudi signed. I look at the all the loops i look at donal stools. I investigate everything quite often. These companies send me products to test out and i'll send it back and i give them feedback so i don't have the ability to travel everywhere at the moment although i am invited to end travel quite a lot in state and overseas so so we talked a lot about loops talking about worst coptic surge tells zeiss hainan. Ah is the chair would what do you think the bigger factor that chair your sitting in on or the the loops and what what would be next after loops loops well but before we leave loops. I just want to specify that are less using an operating microscope or a context light blue. You cannot sit upright and this is a huge myth that dentists don't understand is that you have have to be pivoting your torso slightly forward and then look down and we can come back to that later now what you see it on a very big difference and on sorting partly the question about american german and japan and wades out dental products or any a product designed. I'm finding that american and australian companies design according to what they think will sell and plush soft. They think will sell l. which is really bad for you. Whereas in germany and japan the companies are more willing to make a firm stool which is much better for you. So what and what you need to look for in a dental stool is that it should be firm because unless you're sitting on a seat and you should be sitting on your sit bones it unless you get this firm feedback against your seat bones which activates your deep butcher all anti gravity muscular support system <hes> you adjust sinking into it and you tend to roll off your seat bones and then of course your spine is is being damaged so the first thing is it should be the next part it should be. You should be able to create a slight forward tilt many many dental stools don't have that the the reason is that your hip joint should be a little bit higher than your knees and it's much easier to devote forward and and look into a patient's mouth when you're sitting sitting on a slightly forward sloping surface and there shouldn't be more than about eighty degrees and trump elite few dental stools off see and that can't tip forward are slippery so you feel like you're sleeping off so it should be and non-slip a groupie service so these are the three points plus. The backrest should be upright. You shouldn't be leaning back against a back rest when you're working or less you're able to sit up. Rise is with the microscope or a special type of flu but when you're talking to the patient you should be supported in the upright because what happens is most steinbeck reservoir backward sloping and then of course you come off your seat bones and then you're reversing a lumbar curve so and of scores the the guest list the height of the chair should be fully adjustable to your highs so these are the criteria that i look for and in the dental chair itself the patients that are some very important criteria should be very thin the back should have should you should be able to slide your knees on eight and also the headrest should not have any mechanism that gets in the way of you being able to slide your knees on dennis so that's also important so would you so the the most important things would be the loops the chair you're sitting on the the stool and the chair of the patients in very much now these are gonna mix so i and also the he's won control it should this is what i call the outer comics molitor out mix into outer which is everything in your surgery but you and they have to be well-designed surgery lay out has to be right and by the way why what what it the space behind the dental chair when the dental chair is fully supine horizontal the space between the back beck wall or the cabinet trie and the edge of the headrest is a critical measurement that usually overlook it should be a minimum seventy centimeters ideally an eighty because if the dentist up to ninety because if the dentist con slide the stool enough backwoods enough when the patient is lying in a horizontal position then the only way the dentist can look into the patient's math. He's bending the spine so these are critical outdoor. You're gonna make aspect what i teach is inner agronomics what you're doing inside it yourself how you bend what to do not to do with your spine with your shoulder with your lex with your hands and i have a lot to say about that if if you if we have time we do have time so so so the out so you don't teach the outer ergonomics that would be out yeah they outer economics was was mainly <hes> loops <hes> what you you call the the dentist sits on a stool that we call it the common word loop stool the dental stool the patient share de <hes> delivery system whether it's a side delivery or continental the the search layoff cabinets treat the space around the dental chair also the foot control. It's better to have a foot control. That's an up and down activation bachchan because the knee and ankle are a hindrance although the ankle can twist it's better not to not to sit and activate the drill with a twisted ankle and the prophet shouldn't be too high now. I do teach in my programs because i want to educate educate dentists on what to buy and what not to buy unless what about the light i noticed the biggest irritating thing to me. Is the the light the overhead. I gotta track on a pole. A lot of my friends. Now are going to <hes> headlight on the head any thoughts on lights absolutely absolutely a headline is a must. It's like i'm no by one goal. I'm finally going to go do it. Which one do you i would you recommend <hes> i haven't looked at the latest range because i've been so busy looking at <hes> ask magnification loops but my recommendation is that it shouldn't be too happy be go for the natural color rather than the blue there are some that have got a bluish coloration a blue lies the it's better for your eyes and also you can see jinja vol coloring much better and focused medic dentistry so i look for a warm colored but i couldn't i. I don't have ethical a recommendation. However the lies makes such a difference because what i realized i got headlight years ago and what i realized was that i spent about a quarter is not more of my time in my appointments dealing with delight trying to get it to where i needed needed. The second is attached to your glasses or loops wherever your eyes are. That's where the line is. It's amazing. It's it's a game changer. Say that last part again the it's the last thing ahead lies is a game changer. Now you used used an expression in america deemed ginger <hes> so okay so that was all the outer but you you like to focus on the inner organic so so talking about eater ornaments well. What does that mean <hes> so what that means is that it's sir. Let let me take a step back because this will make sense to you. When you learned to drive your car you learn tabatha asteroid rules and you learned about gears. You would be right. Yes and you learn if you're driving a one hundred kilometers or miles an hour your in high gear and if you're going up a steep hill you're in a low gear that is cooperating with the cars mechanical design and you don't have to be a mechanical engineer to know this and also you learn dakota. Give way certain road rules. The body has got bio royal mechanical design principles which we don't know within that we can do anything without a body that are flexibility allows on fortunately that is correct. If you're movement he found dancing can twist and do anything. The problem is that when we hold particular position russian as a posture in st we do that for lengthy periods. That's when knowing what your body was in wasn't designed for is essential so for example knowing that be below the high of your ears. All your spinal joints are gliding joints. What that means is that they're not designed for twisting and bending even though you can twist them banned because you've got this between your your org vertebra that will allow you to squash and stored them but if you don't come back to neutral very quickly and in dentistry we hold a particular twist opposition for really long periods like half an hour or longer and we barely knew a lot of the time the this bit win the vertebra don't get a chance to recover and rebound and that's when we do damage so that's one aspect so knowing that you can't hold twisted posture and all this do that as well as their dental assistance is one part so i teach people how to look into the patients math using the joints. That's like driving in the ride gear. The reason why i was in pain for so many decades of my practicing life as a dentist i was because i was driving my body in the wrong gear so i teach people road rules and the riot gears meaning which joints to use news for the right job is part of what i teach. The author is that you have got different types of muscles and the the muscles desk moved the armed folk sample our movement muscles and they're not designed to hold up. The average is about four kilos. They're not designed to hold up your shoulder and your elbow in the air for lengthy periods so for example arise handed dentist with the mouth mirror in the last pan had a tendency density twist over to the rise damaging spine and then they have their left shoulder elbow and hand up in the air and movement muscles muscle cells are not designed to be contracting for lengthy periods so most this has got an hygienists have chronic pain in their left shoulder asia. Would that be right that to be my next question. I'm would she's driving to work. She's you know they're they're all alone in there. In the car wooder wooder them most likely dental occupation injuries. Would you see them a cluster so the cluster resend neck back and shoulder they are the highest <hes> incidents of chronic pain and and how <hes> dan neck back and shoulder and how many of them <hes> you think eventually become disabled because of this have you talked with any disability people as i saw you know what percent of dentists eventually become disabled and collect disability because their injuries are so high <hes> no. I haven't looked into what i do. Ask all all dentists who attend my program so i ask if they've had to cut back or ready their their sessions and at their practices are day considering early retirement and you wouldn't believe how many young dentists are already thinking of retraining winning in another field not because they don't love their work but because they are in too much pain many have already cut back. Wow that's <hes>. That's sad saturday sad but i wanted to ask you to the older. People like me who twenty thirty years ago you know you never know how much is fad and how much much is gonna stick. I'm like it was corporal. Tunnel and everybody was having carpal tunnel surgery and you know that that's the american deal they find the problem they find a surgery and they say start doing and a lot of my friends would always say well. You know if jim would've just done like maybe five push-ups. Everyone being put his hands hands flat against the floor and did some push-ups. Maybe he shouldn't have had that surgery done that. That was a long time ago but looking back now that we've known about carpal tunnel forever ever. Do you think <hes> do you think dentists could've avoided a lot of that with more exercise or what your thoughts on corporate all so what i teach and even in my short presentation so i talk about the fact that hands out our livelihood and what i i see is that dentists are this is for everyone but i'll talk specifically about dentists even when we're not doing dentistry does a tendency to have the fingers fingers contract that for example and most dentists when they're sitting and listening to a lecture they are either holding something in their hand or they've got the hands curved and i trained dentist to extend their hand meaning. I'll just hold my hand up so doing that whenever they can so for example if they are working in the practice and they're waiting for a material to sat or the nurses preparing something which to put their instruments down and do full extension with the gloves so and not touching anything so that they are not contracting their fingers if you're not doing any street korea and you're not grasping and doing something with your hands then extent so when you're driving and you get through a red light or railway crossing do full extension on the steering wheel when you are walking around that the party don't keep holding your mobile phone keys and empty glass in your hand things down so i trained people to watch their gripping habits and extending the hands because they tendencies of the at the what people don't realize is death the carpal tunnel it's very narrow tunnel and when our hand is in contraction sean this often people think this is relaxed position for the hand in their lap and that's the contract sean so you want to extend as much as possible. I believe that that it can be a carpal tunnel. Surgery can be avoided and the other one is mobile phone use. I just wanted to say this. Do you know that a lot of young people are scrolling with death tom when they are texting gone and scrolling. They're using death tom. I've already seen a number of off young dentists who have some injuries and chronic pain and i tell people don't use your thumbs for strolling and texting. The thumb is not a finger finger. Use your fingers. Wow i have not heard of that one <hes> but it's funny because when you go to <hes> government websites websites and say occupational hazards dentistry they say <hes> infectious hazards number one infectious hazards needles and other sharp objects are psychological hazards from dealing with stations allergic reactions from the gloves continually tax and physical hazards include muscular scalpels gavel congress complications which have direct relation to dental procedures like pasta situations that may increase the risk of twisting and contorted the body and that's less mercury health health hazard ionizing radiation non ionizing radiation and anaesthetic gases <hes> so would you say dentist the the occupation of dentistry relative to all the other occupations. You think we're in the middle more hazardous less hazardous. Actually you probably don't even know what has it is because you live in the continent that has seven of the ten deadliest snakes so you guys probably your whole life of just expecting to get bit by a snake idi second but do you think dentistry is a hazardous job of very much so i i knew already forty a dental all student that was about to graduate into a very stressful profession and that's why i trained in in hypnosis and mind body relaxation techniques and i the fantasy my in my courses how to look after themselves and deal with time pressure relaxed themselves and patience because that's a a big problem and of course occupational chronic pain twisting and bending is a huge hazard so both of them need to be addressed and i've seen a lot of studies done on dentists and i believe that were among the highest risk and high suicide rate burn out rate. It's stress rate yeah <hes> all of which can be held all of which can be held yeah and you know and you you you see that like i'm unlike when you're working on someone and you you also you feel your chest tightening so i'm totally relaxed yes but i know that i'm reacting to is this person this person and <hes> so i'm in tune of that so i was taking a deal and say kay relax relax your back you know try to get him relaxed but it's funny anyhow ice. I feel it on me as it's happening to them. So it has been extremely psychological. I believe were some type of social herd word animals like bees and ants and you know many of these animals and i think a thousand years from now. They'll understand a lot more. They do now but i definitely think more social fact that if someone is comes in your office afraid then you're going to feel the fear endings -iety oh absolutely and something that i teach to all the dentists that i i actually taught myself essay young than this is is not to take it personally because what happens is that often patients come in very scared and they cover up a theater with some sort of prickly somewhat hostile out exterior and if we don't understand that on is very frightened person who is almost regressing to a child we take personally and then we go on the the defensive and and it's not a great thing so i the way i look at it this tax when you go out into the rain you get wet but the rain doesn't come at you personally it just you just get wet and so not to take it personally when a patient is difficult or prickly and to see past that outer and call on your compassion and understand that this is just a frightened human being and then apply relaxation techniques evancho's dropping voice stone talking very slowly taking an audible breath next patient and <hes> these are very subtle techniques that are very powerful or ready makes a difference. Excuse me i have no excuses because my dad told me this <hes> years ago he owned do they have song have sonning drive ins in australia australia's they sonic drive-in pull up in a car and you don't have those do they tried in these. Yes no no drive in bless these days but he might get owned a restaurant and when i told him i wanted to be a dentist. I'm like my next door neighbor. He said but you know when you're in a restaurant you get to see the best side of people when they go out to go to mcdonald's. That's the best they're ever going to be but if you become a policeman or a dentist are in those jobs where you see people at their worst and i it's just tough because you're right. I mean we see people at their worst. I and i remember when i took my kids at disneyland. One time the kid from the actually was so excited. He actually messed up his pants and i thought man dan this is a different world than dentistry. I mean no one's ever jumped up and down in soiled their pants <hes> waiting for me to open my door's at seven a._m. <hes> so <hes> <hes> <hes> it's tough but so so what would the message be now. What would you what my homes take away since. Go to your your website. Would that be the first start if they go to optimum dental posture dot com well bill of your audience who who are not in australia or new zealand and con get to australia easily. My website site is not not the most informative place at the moment if they get on my facebook page optum that'll posture facebook facebook page or on the my name on cobol profile page and they throw back up to last year they will find a lot of useful useful information where i post about a particular aspect of the way with practice dentistry and give very important advice and recommendations conditions that would be the first step of course i am willing to come to america and europe and trained dentist isg and present at dental congress. That's a very good way to meet me and interact with me. Come to australia and then my two day organic sam wellness in that district workshop. That's the best way to learn because i teach the inner agronomic principles and then we apply all around dental chairs over a mannequin in simulated dentistry and get lots and lots of individuals training and practice so i'm open to get another question when when i graduated high school in one thousand nine hundred eighty so from seventy let me six to eighty any kid in bishop. Carroll is at a dad that was dennis. I mean doctor dr pelzer dr knutson. I was always like kin. Will your dad let me and john lewis go spend the danger because john lisa's my friend that we went from seventh grade to the other and we go these offices and john and i would always talk dr drew prepared. He was a standup dentist and the other ones were sitting down now. The oral surgeons vaile said i'm talking about general so the oral surgeons all stood. Everybody else sat down except for dr per parred and our dr pelzer. I'm sorry and so looking back was standing up up healthier. Was that a better strategy than sitting in a chair. And how do you compare what's happening with oral surgeons who all the all surgeons i know are or stabbing when they do surgery so so what's the difference between stand up and sit down very good question so there are many ways of standing there just as bad a sitting. The only good thing is that the news whereas dentists tend to be more stationary when they see it however it's essential to learn how to stand sandwell so on day two of my today program. I teach people how to stand them bend over the dental chair. Whether you're a surgeon or general dentists doing extraction i teach dentist had to bend from the hip and and balance the way that's in front and behind them because because greg theakston you're vertically i guess people to bring in forceps and i teach half to stand and do extractions using your whole body wisely and not loading oram yes so there is a know how in comics come into standing as well but in the old days when dennis were standing at least steph off had ear nose shorts specialist attending my programs and i've gone out to operating theatres and train them have have to bend over the patient in the operating theatre and there are just as many bad harmful posture habits as there are in sitting and and how you know is dental ergonomics is <hes> include stress management and stretching or is it is separate separate or y y which is the eve of erg is economics base to strikes exercising. Our were they related so losing stretching is really good whether you call it economics or not it's it's it was designed to move. I don't know if you've heard there was research done in australia melbourne actually and and they said sitting is the new smoking king is not designed to sit for more than thirty five forty five minutes so it's great to move and stretch on fortunately a lot of people do rush harmful excises said the gym and and <hes> some personal trainers don't know what people should be doing with themselves ossoff seen i've met dentists who did a lot of damage working out in gyms with the ride no how knowing which joints are designed to ban them which are not and how to pick up a heavyweight and work out working out in jim candies very good. Yoga can be very good provided. The yoga teacher understands danstett. You're not meant to bend down with straight black lockneys and middle of spine bending so again you want to know about biomechanical design principles walking his fantastic music is very good and while we're talking about health i just wanna bring in hell's we'd with the use of let's end and microscopes and and high magnification loops. It's very important to look after our i health so it's important to take off glasses loops and look look out into natural lot. Look this tent at look into the distance. Send and also use your peripheral vision wise. We'll have eye problems swelling future eye problems. Yes <hes> that's one. I wasn't going to be thinking about problems from from what dissect the i just like. We weren't designed to sit for lengthy periods would sign to me is the is were designed to look into the distance. Look around what's around you. You know a venture in primitive days. We were forever scanning guests to what's around now in dentistry. We're looking down along a very narrow focus and is a tendency to not use all the relevant muscles and and it's just not great for the is to be so narrowly focused for lengthy periods. I've seen dentists who don't take off their magnification loops and go out to the way ingram greeting their patients with loops on take them off look around look near and far off spend some time with people who are trained in natural vision improvement. Do you think any countries or regions and you're out there next to new zealand australia japan and the whole <hes>. Do you think any countries are better at organics than others or do you think they all have the same problem. <hes> are some people more focused stone. It will a lot of it is hearsay but what i have heard is that and in the past i <hes> japanese designers of ten equipment were more aware of ghana mix and and dentists in japan were more willing to buy well-designed equipment and that was something that was in the past. I'm not sure if there is still the case. I don't have figures to compare us to where people are more more aware of economics what i've found how this dead bad the inner agronomics what you're doing inside yourself is foreign to just about every dan distaff come across and so i would say that that's probably better outer. Ghana makes better design equipment in perhaps the some of the european countries certainly the german scandinavian designs very good and some of the japanese designs than perhaps <hes> america where and australia where we're more focused focused on the plush comfy kind of look in that off. What's actually good for you and while we're talking about all these something i wanted to mention is is that i am frequently asked what position should advantis thin. Should i get lots of questions like should i be in eleven o'clock twelve o'clock in america. Do you have that position where you're behind the patient order to decide and you call it an o'clock position right absolutely right now looking at what position to sit in is what i call an outside the organization because that doesn't take into account count your structure and patient and of course every head and patient is different than what quadrant you're working on so what i teach is it to go from the inside so it's an inside out perspective i say to and people the dentist i train is once you know that you're not supposed forced to be twisting yourself to decide. Organize your self to sit wherever you can be so that you look after yourself. Thank you bend at the ride. Joins news then the patient share news patient as the patient turn their head a lot of dentists donosti patients attend the had dade roger twist themselves into a pretzel and ask the patient to to decide so go from the inside out and say this is the way i can look after myself so i'm not twisting and bending myself and all say the kids is on and you know the psalm the reason the big problem image just make bad habits and habits are so hard to change and you think i'm fine. I can get away with this <hes> but <hes> you know you start looking taking direct and it's cheating. I get it man. I just want to lean over and look straight air and and it's it's faster and it's faster so it's immediate gratification and then you're going to have <hes> you're gonna pay for it later and my gosh you only you only are born with one body and and why are you trashing it for your patient. Well people don't actually get there. I call it a short you know twisting around to quickly look at the computer twisting to pick up the hand pieces on our side delivery or twisting ground to get the activation these are shortcuts for which they are very heavy prize and of course happy changes a is a big issue and i teach i spend a lot of time. Training dentists had to become aware and develop posture all awareness and change happy. It's and in fact this is where i find that training get donald team where i trained dentists and dental assistant together so that they observe each other and remind the charter to break cabinets. You'd have to break over and over and over again happy. It's for about thirty day period before you develop a new default an an improved default and what happens. Is that whatever you've been doing feels comfy and right even though it's doing damage and you don't even know this that you're back to the all twist now you're doing helpful. Your name is a aniko ball zayd aniko ball. Yes kyle wants to know if you're related to anikin skywalker now. Are you familiar with anniston skywalker but anyway annacone aniko anikin was <hes>. Did you go to school with any skywalker. Okay well. Hey aniko seriously thank you so much. <hes> my my brother moved to sydney australia. I go down there all the time and i i love. It's the only country that every time i go back there i always say why am i going back home and it's only because i got four kids in five grandkids but if if if i never had children if i had no kids no grandchildren whatever i australia's the only country i would never come back to. I think sydney melbourne alborn perth. I mean it's just i actually love perth the most. I'm probably gold coast next sydney. Just just love it all down there. I i love the people of australia they're just so they're just at a different level of just fon laid back and cool. Every time i go visit my brother paul. I'm just like why am i come back home but i just wanted to thank you. It's it's five eighteen p._m. Here on a monday night. What time is it there and australia seventeen hours ahead what as so as mohan inga quarter past ten okay and thank you so much for waking up this morning and escaping me all the way you too <hes> ten thousand miles away and talking to all these young kids about how they need to think long term about their posture or they're going to pay for it so it's aniko ball her websites optimum dental posture and you're going to remember her name aniko because i said anikin skywalker walker so i would start doing that. Just <hes> dr aniko skywalker ball diplomat clinical hypnosis advanced diploma oma and the alexander studies save your posture. Do what's right. Don't don't waste your body aniko. Thank you so much for coming on. Today was an honor tape. I am privileged to podcast you. It's been a pleasure talking with your thank. You all right have a great day.