Local Hour: The Deadspin Leaks
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And I'm so excited Inter Miami came away with a point on the Road David Samson I know you were glued to Inter Miami United on F S One, a nil nil affair a regional rival big time point for Inter Miami. is a huge moment. I couldn't decide whether I was more excited to get the one away point for Inter Miami or when Jimmy Butler second free throw with no time left went in. That was just for good measure. I mean insane game I I I know this is going to sound like a knee jerk reaction in hyperbolic but I can't remember in my lifetime in which more people were sent to the free throw line because they were filed on the shot it was insanity great game. Exciting time zone here because. You have the marlins inexplicably in the playoff chase well, not inexplicably the the explanation is that the record is good enough to be in this case. Because the playoff expansion and sixty games is just such a mutation of the sport that you have a handful of teams over the course of a full regular season might prove to be bad in the thick of this San Diego might have actually been legitimately good this year but San Francisco's hanging around Philadelphia's probably a team that I don't think he would have had in thick of the playoff chase as they are right now you look at I, mean even the Tigers. Are Pretty Good David what is your take on this season? Should I just enjoy it for what it is? Should a part of me be like wow, this is such a mutation of the sport I can take this seriously. Let depends. What kind of person are you in general when you look at your glass in the morning because you are acting pretty half empty right now and that's disappointing because South Fan we gotta take it the way we can get it when we can get it how we can be if it's a phantom foul by Jaanus you take. The fact is I just would take umbrage with one thing you said to start this show. The bucks are not the best team in basketball. They may have the best record in basketball, but they are not playing like the best team in basketball by any stretch since this bubble started, the heat's are a better team. It does remind me of the Marlins when when we WANNA know three hit to go back to it but people said Oh we're we shouldn't be favored against the cubs or the giants and I really don't. I really don't think you hate to go back to it now. Well, listen it's just that people that realize we are better than they were the heat are a great team. They've got shooters they've got defenders they've got playmakers. I just thought that the referees played a role that that the NBA going to have to look at this and say, is this the game we want to? We want the referees thinking about calls every time jump shooter jumps up to we want the sort of touch fouls too. We want the inconsistency when you watch game seven of the Rockets Finder last night the referees let's go. There was so much frenetic I don't know if you stayed up late and. I'm sure you did too. I did insanity actually a problem. I actually had a problem with got foster teeing up Chris Paul at the Chris. Paul was talking to him in a way that absolutely deserved a technical I. Know You said Phantom Fouled by Janas and I, think if INA vacuum I show you that play and say, Hey, this is going to be a call that's made with zero time on the clock without the context of the rest of the game you're probably saying who makes that call it in that spot I think immediately on the heels of that inexplicable call that Steve Jabbie Johnny I've had a problem west since he was officiating Knicks Games. In twenty years ago Steve Jabbed back that call up new do not make that call in that spot. You make that call in any spot that was great defense by Gordon. Credit the doors burke for calling him out because he's he's supposed to be the end all and be all there when you have Steve Jabbie rules expert you sort of defer to him. Doris Burke was not having it David. Because it was outrageous. First of all the fact that Middleton hit the free the three free throws that is not as relevant to me because that that's do just fyi to hit three in a row. But. That's not a foul at that point in the game of a conference semifinals, even a game to forget a game seven game one or whatever game you just don't call it and the Jaanus foul if anyone Hussein right now that that wasn't a makeup call doesn't understand how games go. That was a makeup call on Janas and it was the right thing to do because the right team won that game the heat should have won that game, but they should have won it not on Butler's free throws with no time left on the clock I think I agree with every single one of your takes was a makeup call I. Don't think that without the context. The context of the rest of the game I. think that's a bad call. But when you hold it in direct comparison to what immediately happened before it with that drug foul call, the honest thing looks like a flagrant foul compared to what happened with going drag it. So better team one Miami he made us nervous at the end Jimmy Butler for the love of God call timeout, but we will get to extreme. Heat reaction in the big Sui. Let's give some attention to the Miami. Marlins, and you're rooting for the MARLINS. Right? You're rooting for this season even though I, mean, I think a large chunk of you doesn't want Derek jeter to have any success professionally I don't know if you consider yourself a professional rival how you must be conflicted watching the seem you've spoken about it here with me on the on the local hour. But are you getting sort of sucked in by this playoff chases mutated as it is. I'm rooting for Michael and I'm rooting for other people in the organization I think they're seven of them. Left jeeter hasn't fired I'm not rooting for Jeeter on the business side at all because I want obviously by comparison I want people and him to realize that hey, maybe enisa selfish of me to say and I'm honest with you I don't want him to all of a sudden be selling out and all of a sudden. Get a huge deal and all of a sudden getting naming rights deal because even though it's three years later it it just makes me look less competent and the more that he can't do what he says he could do better than I did the better I feel that that's off the field is so honest. I appreciate. I appreciate the transparency because many people might accuse you of that and you're like just wearing it. Yup, absolutely. True. Who would accuse me of that? I mean that's if you don't have some bit of Schadenfreude in you then you're just not looking deep enough and so do do I have happiness at his misfortunes every single time do I gloat about it every single time however? In a contract year for Michael who is someone who I care about I want and for the fans of south. Florida. Listen I wanted to win every year that I was there and they haven't won in so long it's been seventeen years that means the way I've always looked at is generational And take my son who was born in o-3. In June vote three so he never got to. Obviously didn't remember three I never was able to have him at an October game I never was able to show him playoff games and everybody born his year there now, seniors in high school. And I can't stand the fact that there could be children who get born and then go to school and become adults and never saw their team make the playoffs. So I, want the Marlins to make the playoffs this year, not just for him but for everybody in south Florida whether it's sixty game season or not you. If you're in it, you're in it and no one remembers how many people in Los Angeles who were seniors in high school in one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, one, say to themselves man that was strike shortened season that was not fun at all. That was split season. It wasn't real. Forget it. You're the world champion. Want to hear something pathetic and sad. In, my lifetime I have a memory of one Cleveland browns. Playoff game. One in your whole life forget your school life. You're telling your whole, my whole life, my whole life because remember they went away and became the Ravens and it was a couple years before they came back in the ravens immediately became good and went on to win two super bowls You can tell that stayed with me a little bit during that transitional time I actually supported the. Miami Dolphins and they made the playoffs. But in terms of like my absolute passion, my Cleveland Browns made the playoffs in believe it was two thousand and one and it was a heartbreaking game, a loss comeback victory by the Pittsburgh steelers the hated rival, and that is my one playoff memory of the team alongside Chelsea that I support the most. So yeah, I feel terrible for your son. Is Art Modell the most hated owner or is it Jeffrey? In your career Oh boy it is art. It is quite. Quite, easily, and I do not like Jeffrey all respect to you but. I don't like Jeffrey at all but art art was way worse. Art was when you remember for the listeners who don't now art modell under cover of night in theory although of course, it's not true but there were moving trucks that were brought to Cleveland and you and there was video as I recall of those moving trucks in the dark moving stuff out of Cleveland into. Baltimore. Do you have an any owlry when that happened? I was I wanna say I was probably nine years old I remember having the sports I hung up the sports illustrated cover that was made a character a caricature of art modell. I hated Art Modell I would throw Dr said I legitimate I had a dartboard in my room I put it on the Dartboard Yeah I. Mean He ripped away the football team that I loved that I loved I, didn't really grab the scope of it and I do remember sort of. Instantaneously, there was already talk about the NFL is going back to Cleveland. This will not stand because everybody agreed in the way that it went down and leveraging the stadium situation and the city of Cleveland was willing to give stadium I it seemed as though he balked at the entire negotiation and wasn't that all serious about keeping that team in Cleveland much like you were a cowboy. Hat to recruit other cities he got swept up in it and his heart was set on Baltimore and look. It's worked out for that franchise art modell plenty of people say that he should be a hall of Famer because of the contributions to the game, and if you look at it, it's hard to argue but I think that that sin for me is too much to. I always forever hold a grudge. Even though he's long gone now that one's top Jeffrey I didn't like because I felt like Jeffrey was just openly lying to me I just I. I know deadspin had the whole thing. Well, let's talk about the deadspin. Article that sort of they got their hands on some of your financials nightmare with one of my worst days of my career and we talk about it and for the uninitiated can you explain exactly what happened there with deadspin story? So we're we're a private company while like you and fans think that it's a public company and you should know Everythi macos on the reality is that you don't because we have our own financials and is completely private. How much money is spent on various things who how much money is one how much money lost? The every company has financial statements. Baseball's interesting in that. We've got several auditors every year who audit the financial statements. The union gets a look at the financial statements. The League gets a look at the financial statements, and of course, we as as a company get your financial statements. I had to sign every year the financial statements to say as President of the team that I've read them because come not just with numbers but there's also pros and financial statements were you explain different categories explain different numbers and you have to represent it as a legal document where you are representing that certain things are happening and here's why the numbers are the numbers. But those financial statements are absolutely private in a public company where you buy shares of stock, you can see a company's financial statements and audited financial statements. So one day I am. Doing, whatever it is I do and when you get a call from PJ loyal, who is the head of communications? Generally, the 'cause are because something's going on, it's not hey how you doing. It's all right. We had a player arrested or we have to deal with something that happened or did you hear what the owner said or did you hear what's going on in baseball? You'RE GONNA have to respond or you have an interview request there's something going on. In my wildest dreams it never occurred to me that I would get a phone call from PJ sane. We have a serious problem what was going on as we were trying to get a ballpark and we had made statements and I had made statements that the Marlins were losing money. And I had been very consistent about that. And I would never get into details about how much. I would never get into details about my definition of losing money. I would say that I worked for an individual owner and when the owner has to write a check at the end of the year that to me is losing money. When an owner gets money given to him at the end of the year that's making money. That's the definition to me of making money or losing money because that's how our owner defined it, and that is what I have to do at the end of the year say, Hey, could you wire in seventeen million dollars or hey, we need your wire. were sending you seventeen million dollars. So the call comes in and says David. It looks as though deadspin is about to print. Our financial statements and I said that can't be true. Obviously they're not real because there's no way that they would have them. It's impossible. We had never given them to the public and the public had asked for our financial statements during the negotiation for the stadium and we were a hard now and we had a lot of criticism from people like you and Dan and everyone in the media and all the fans because because there's a voyeuristic quality to seen someone else's financial statements it's like. When someone buys you dinner and you want to look at the check to see how much it is you can see how much the person's tipping everybody sort of does that look even though they claim they don't, but they do so now multiply that by thousand that is how badly people wanted to see financials, how much to Samson get paid or how much money are they making her losing? deadspin. Somehow. Got The financial statements of the Florida Marlins and they chose to write an article and go public. And only show. Three years where the Marlins were making money. And they didn't show the entire financial statement they only chose and Cherry pick certain parts of it. To write an article that the Marlins were liars. And it was a firestorm I I had never been a part of anything like that. Truthfully to this day, what were the consequences I imagine you heard from a lot of Politicians because you were going to go sheeting stadium deal in your crying poor. So at that point, you're probably thinking, oh no, this deal. Is On life support. I. Might Not be able to get a stadium. So, let me tell you what I did. I think I can see. We had to decide how we were going to handle this. And I made the decision over the objection of. Jeffries? Pr Advisor of PJ and of Jeffrey. I went behind everyone's back. And I sat down with a writer for the Miami Herald with our actual financial statements. Year by year by year. Because I wanted that writer who had been incredibly negative towards us his name he still writes for the Herald his name is Doug. Hanks. We chose the Herald and we chose him as the business writer because we thought he had the best opportunity to look at financial statements listen to me talk and then writing an article disputing what deadspin had written. We couldn't let it go normally when something bad happens you put it away and you don't make it worse by bringing it up again but this story became so big and it got in the way of getting a ballpark because the public and the commissioners and the mayor everyone lost their mind because they had cover which was yeah they're not showing us our statement. So what can we say we believe him but now they saw these statements and said, wait a minute you don't eat public money. It was bad. Could you threaten to sue deadspin? Now, we only threatened to sue deadspin over that over my racial comments that went public when I was taped incorrectly that then we had lawyered up and threatened to sue for the me. Yeah. Yeah Yeah. To a different story. We sat with the Herald we went through the financials and Doug Hanks wrote a front page article because deadspin missed. A did not properly explain our financial statements because in them it explained exactly where the money went that where the prophet went the years the Marlins were profitable it went to pay down debt debt that we needed to re borrow in order to put money into the stadium. You didn't show these financial politicians you just mentioned that. So obviously, my mind goes to the place. Well, one of these big teams I was paying the Marlins, all that rev share money leak this. You know I didn't spend until this second one minute considering who leaked it because I've never I've always been a consequentialist. So why would I spend a second worrying about who did something when I had to deal with the fact that it was done? When the genie's out of the bottle am I going to spend time figuring out why someone rubbed the lamp now I gotTa deal with the fact that I gotTa do my three wishes now. I actually am jealous of that trait because you just deal with the task at hand all your band with his devoted to. All right how do we fix this because a large part of me would be so pissed and I, would not trust anybody major league baseball because that's the obvious place. So now that you're thinking about it for the first time. Does that make sense that theory. It could have been from. It could have been from the Union. It could have been from an owner who didn't like US or who didn't want us to succeed. It could have been from owners who were trying to get ballparks and couldn't and were upset it could have been from cities I could have been from any myriad places. Do I think that someone would directly try to hurt our bid to get a stadium? You're damn right idea because we did things that baseball was not necessarily comfortable with throughout the years we did things that people were not comfortable with. We were involved in that transaction or no to that upset a lot of people within baseball There were a lot of people who didn't want John Henry to get the Red Sox within baseball I mean there's there's a lot that went on over the years. So could someone of purposely tried to make it so we would either wouldn't get a ballpark or would have to put more money in yeah. But again, why spend a second on that Mike because it's such a waste of energy when there's such a premium on hours in the day I, want to stay here for a little bit because there obviously political ramifications. Ramifications internally. I'm sure there were people a high ranking officials within your own organization that were sort of caught off guard by exactly what was in some of these financials but it seemed as though you guys were Kinda punished by Major League baseball because you mentioned the players association guys were forced to inject a little bit more money into that. Was that a residual effect of this scandal or is that something different David that was yet another scandal? I got called by. Rob Manfred. In this was before he was commissioner. And there was an issue and. Unfortunately, here Miami you're very Miami centered. But in baseball Miami's one of thirty teams, the Union and. The owners were fighting about revenue sharing proceeds. What what the rule say is all these teams who get revenue sharing of which the marlins are one the Tampa. Bay Rays are one teams get a lot of money tens of millions of dollars in revenue sharing, which is money coming from big market teams like the Yankees and going to small revenue teams like the Marlins but the rule is in the collective bargaining agreement that revenue sharing dollars must be used to improve your on the field product. And what the Union believed is that there were teams taking money and pocketing that money and not using it for on the field product because using revenue for on the field product means. Money to players in the union. Yes. So that's sort of the backdrop of the dispute between owners and the Union right and it wasn't just a union that believe this it was fans. Drew. got. This wasn't this. Wasn't just some Kooky theory that the agents and the players said, Hey, wait a second Jeffrey Loria pocketing this money. No we had is we saw was on the field. We understood a little bit about revenue sharing and we felt like Holy Hell Jeffrey Loria is lining his pockets with the Yankees and Red Sox, money. So. Of course you did. But it never actually ended up that way because what we had to do every year when you're a revenue sharing recipient. This is not talked about either mikey teams who get revenue sharing have to certify a letter to Major League. Baseball and the Union how those proceeds are being used. So I would write the letter and the letter would be dear bud and Tony or whoever was running the Union you know don fear or Gr's whoever was. The MARLINS got forty, two million dollars in revenue sharing and we used it to one. Pay Our number one draft pick three million dollars to to improve our minor league system because that counted as improving your onfield product three, we did not non tender player X. so you go through a laundry list it gets approved by the Union approved by the commissioner and then you move on to the next year. It was just one of my annual jobs I had to write this letter saying what were using revenue sharing for at the time in a city that you're not talking about because it's not Cleveland and not Miami Pittsburgh was the team that was in trouble because Bob. The owner was actually taking distribution. This is real name Bob nutting. That's his name actual. Still owns the team. Actually acknowledging distributions being. Taken. Jeffrey. Never got distributions. We never gave him money never acknowledged getting it. Bob Nothing's mistake. No there's one time one year when Jeffrey got a distribution. Now he got a management fee like every general partner of every partnership, which is totally different right but owned ninety five percent of the team. Can I see on that because I just always thought you guys were doing creative bookkeeping and look he had to write a check at the end of the year. You're very careful with the words that you're choosing, but we saw some of the red. Shared dollars and I just had to think like this management fee that's public record. We have no idea what Jeffrey Loria gets paid this he can get paid anything can't you just sort of shift some funds around and take from this budget and at the end of the year you say, well, Jeffrey Loria in terms of an owner capacity he had a write a check but in terms of managing partner Oh, my God, he's paying himself quite the salary. Yes that would be great because that would be like the mets saying they lose two hundred, million dollars a year as the Matt's but they get three hundred, million a year as owners of the Sports Net New York so therefore as a group assuming you own the same percentage of each, you're actually net positive I. agree that would be amazing but in Jeffries cases management fee was a tenth of the losses all it would do if he brought his manager Feta Zeros reduce of losses. Let me tell you that where that management fee came from when he bought into the Expos he owned only Eight. Twelve percent of the team. But as the general partner of the team of a huge partnership with a lot of partners, which is very normal. The general partner gets a management fee. It's what club Brochu. The general partner of the Expos God before Jeffrey. So Jeffrey did a partnership agreement he got paid a management when he moved to. Florida. It was the partnership that moved not Jeffrey. So Jeffrey had partners in Florida and was running the partnership but that management fee is you know several million dollars three million dollars two and a half million dollars nothing compared to what the annual losses were. Safety is at the heart of every Volvo. The Volvo XC SIXTY SUV is designed for safer trips and for the road, the available pilot assist helps keep you centered on long stretches and active bending lights. 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We asked local Librarian Steve Sage about this, and here's what he said honestly I don't buy coming the Harry captivating radio also obvious news Geico makes it easy to save money and easy to manage your policy with the GEICO. APP. So switching is a really smart decision. How to Steve Feel about this I love the Kyko, use it all the time. That's all these news from guy calm. So you've always maintained Jeffrey was losing money every year and in reality, the only actual money he was gaining wasn't even real because it was just the franchise appreciating in value the millionaires don't say millionaires and become billionaires by losing tens of millions of dollars every year I just never believed that it's possible like the Miami Heat say they don't make money that they broke even when the big three. Were here I just don't believe it I. Just this is business people don't get into business to lose tens of millions of dollars I understand sports franchises are for the most part vanity investments. anyways but it just doesn't make any sense to me. I feel like I'm getting got feel like there's some big secret that all these owners no, and they just say, yeah, man I'm losing money it's not the. In every form of life millionaires use creative bookkeeping to game the system why wouldn't they game with professional sports franchises? They do so there's several factors if you really want to get technical and the one, the first one is not at all, it's called the ego premium. That is what people will do when they own a franchise. It's sort of the price. Of joining country. Club, and so you you have to pay money to be a part of that club and whether it's the cost of the team or the annual operation of the team. But there's several things you get when you lose money as a professional franchise when you're the partner of a partnership that loses money, those losses flowed down to you personally. So owners of teams get law who lose money get to take those losses and apply them to the gains they have in their other lives whether it's selling arts. If you own a piece of art that you bought for a million and you sold it for two million, you have a million dollar tax to pay. But if you lost a million dollars on your baseball team, you can take. That million dollar loss apply it to the million dollar gain in art, and therefore you pay no tax on the gain in art if you sell four hundred, million dollars worth of Yahoo Stock and you have a gain of two hundred million dollars but you've got losses in the Mavericks. Of Two hundred million dollars than you do not have to pay the capital gain on your increase in Yahoo Stock. there. are absolute bent benefits to losses that you can use where these owners have huge tax liabilities and those tax liabilities get reduced by getting these losses on top of that, and now we're getting terrible. But at at early in the morning, there's something called depreciation. When you buy a franchise, you get to you get something called depreciation and Amortization, and that is a tax concept where you look like you don't have losses but you get losses and you can then use those losses. Yeah. I mean my knowledge of this. You're I'm punching well above my way class right now I'm trying to keep up I have an LLC. So I do have a basic understanding well, well, if I can see where you can sort of manipulate the system and we're losses are actually good. For you then I got to imagine in certain respects when you say good, let me just make sure you do the math not dollar for dollar right? Right. When you lose a dollar, the tax benefit you get from that dollar is not a full dollar, right? It's just the the loss is not actually before right to say. So if me who was never good at math I, went to Miami Dade College, Remedial Courses, I, hate him at. So if I could figure out that the system could be manipulated. I got to imagine Jeffrey Loria is manipulating the system far better than I am. So I just on the surface I. Understand you say, well, he had to write a check at the end of the year, but just commonsense tells me. Jeffrey Loria is making money every year whether it's a he he's gotta be. He can't be news on year over year. So that's that's not true well as possible. So what happened was his investment in the team with such the reason why kept working? Is that his initial investment in the team was low enough that with the money that he was losing each year, we would treat it like acquisition debt. We would say all right basis. It's like you just bought the Marlins for eighty million. Now it's ninety, million, one, hundred and twenty degrees job of trying to explain this one acquisition ads mentality of it. But at some point, if you don't have enough cash or wire the mets selling right now. Well, I always thought because Bernie madoff took the wilpon and then was a divorce and they just don't have the opposite in cash flow. But their team is worth more and more money every year. In the pandemic, why would you sell when your team is not as worth as much as you want it to be because you no longer have the cash to actually fund the OP, the annual losses that you have been funding every year because you know you're making more in asset appreciation but even though you would be making more this year, if you're the mets, the will peiser like we don't have any more cash to wait for that asset appreciation. That's when a team sells. But look at Jeeter's group their level of investment to start with so significant. That for them to keep adding annual losses year after year, it's it's a math equation that doesn't work because they don't think they'll get that out of the team if and when they sell and whatever number of years. That's why as teams trade. Now, for these huge numbers, the appetite to lose money annually is going to decrease. The old owners who have smaller entry numbers have a higher appetite to lose money annually. All right. Let's talk about. We've talked about the business of baseball. I'm a little cross eyed right now trying to follow. I. Wasn't very good at math. Let's talk about the actual team the Miami Marlins. Five hundred now I think they they have more home wins on the road than they do at home i. think they only have two home wins. At home, they lose to Jay's last night six Oh Sanchez is an exciting prospect lots of comparisons to Jose Fernandez. What do you make of that comp? Do. Not, view Jose Fernandez, I've been told he has three pitches were Jose to. You know Sanchez has a chance to be atop the rotation guy. He has a different type of body than Jose. He has a different personality. When you see him on the field, he smiles a bit but Jose just had this love of baseball and love of life that I have not compared any pitcher I've seen to Jose when he was alive so I mean I just I wouldn't make that he looks to me to be more like Josh Johnson hopefully without the injuries where he is a workhorse where he can have a a sub three era we don't take give enough credits Johnson. What a great pitcher he was. Dot Hurt. Yeah. You're absolutely right in terms of he had I want to say about maybe two and a half seasons there were if he injured, he would come back after a couple of weeks and and it it wouldn't take too much from them. But. You don't have this epic lists of Great Marlins, pitchers because they're not here long enough Jose Fernandez in terms of stuff. And, performance in what could have been I think most people say well, that's the greatest pitcher in marlins franchise history but Josh Johnson there's there's a real argument to be made I'm curious to who you would pick because right now and I'm probably missing somebody. Say Josh Lawrence Josh Johnson is a pretty good argument when you're trying to discover who the best pitcher marlins franchise history is as a career or as Marlin as a Marlon dempster's in there to Brad Penny actually. Brad. Penny might be the Guy Grad Penny was great. BECCA was great. Kevin Brown was great but short allied. All these guys have short careers. So the MARLINS are difficult franchise to yeah. This has the Marlins have difficult franchises sort of name. Who's the best pitcher? I'm curious as to. WHO Had A great career with the marlins regularly it ricky Nolasco broke bread pennies record write for most wins or career for Marlins, wins Johnson was the best. He was so good and he was sexiest cerebral guy. He opened the new ballpark and he was the losing pitcher against the cardinals in the first game in April twelve but he's ball was so heavy had such great lower body Tom. seaver just died last night and people ask who's your comp to Tom Seaver in terms of pitching Josh Johnson for me? would be the comp because of the power stuff because of the great lower body and strength that Josh Johnson had. That's what Tom Seaver was known for. If you've never watched Tom seaver pitch because you're too young, he was incredible. Yeah. Roy. Halladay has one of the more memorable perfect games. Now, we live in an era where someone will throw a no hitter and it won't even make sportscenter Roy Halladay has one of those perfect games that people remember I. Think it was because you guys sold the tickets but. That game there was a feeling in the air that this was a legitimate possibility and it might be holiday or might be Josh Johnson both pitchers were at the top of their game. We thought about the possibility of having double no hitters when we had Jose Pitch Josh John Stan would pitch. There were certain pitchers who we had and when you're facing them when Dontrelle Willis faced. Randy Johnson. I remember talking to the clubhouse staff. Were you that that was exciting? WAS ON ESPN that was really the national sort of signal to everybody Dontrelle had arrived. That was when he became a national Sewri it was a local story and he started seeing a bump in the crowds but when Randy Johnson and the diamondbacks came into town man, I could I remember that game so vividly and you started believing in the team because you guys won that game. I think. Alex. cintron. Put them ahead. Early on and it was a comeback victory I think, I'm not exactly sure on the details but I know I was at Game I. Remember I was sitting in the fish tank I was so excited about Dontrelle Willis I'm hoping that you guys have some good Dontrelle Willis stories from your time over there as this is happening because that was super exciting actually made the All Star game. So he moved the needle more than Jose did financially. And Jose would draw more people. But. It was at a lower average ticket price. So financially, when Dontrelle started more people bought higher price tickets that went Jose started. That's a that's a bit of a revelation right there because I always thought Jose was probably the guy it was either. It was a two man race in that respect but dontrelle higher priced tickets. Now that I think about Dontrelle probably although he wasn't consistent and Don would go through these even an oath three. Even in three, you guys weren't even playing them come the postseason because you couldn't really trust him. He was not in the rotation. He was put into the bullpen in the in the O. Three postseason. Yeah and he couldn't really be trusted. He would go through these peaks and valleys, and then he had put together that great season where loss out the carpenter where I'm sure you guys felt like he should have won cy young. He definitely should that bothered us that that's when we felt that the Marlins we had won a world series. Yes. Lost a few players but then we signed a bunch of players and we felt as though that writers were just so upset with the marlins. So upset that we had won the world series so upset that we were successful low payrolls that they took it out on Dontrelle that was. A season where we were furious, not made the playoffs but the fact that Dontrelle didn't get a CY young was a joke he was unhittable. This is after three. This is after the title and we couldn't make the playoffs in he was the best pitcher in baseball that year and the marlins unfortunately for more and Marlins fans know this. They have a lot of great players that have come through those. Players, that were great for a very long time for that franchise I'm curious who you think that that you were part of these marlins teams who will among that group of players. Under the the Loria regime might actually get their Jersey retired by the Miami marlins because you look out there there aren't a lot. Well. There's zero is I. It's is sixteen honored. What's what's the deal was number sixteen? Don't even get me started. I do want to get you started this angers doesn't it? I'm not going to get started on hose I'm not gonNA talk about it. Okay. I'm really not it's a joke. For and I'm not talking about the statue I'm talking about. that. The absolute two things happened that should not have happened. Period. One Jeffrey did and one jeeter did and they're both equally wrong. Number One. Karl Barth was the first president of the Florida marlins franchise he passed away before the Marlins could even play a game. The MARLINS had retired number five in honor of Carl Bar. That was the first retired number. Logan Morrison who I love I traveled with him to visit the troops. We thought he could be great for us and it just didn't work out. He wanted to wear number five and Jeffrey unretired called Burgers number to give to Logan Morrison, and it never got retired again. That's just wrong. You do not give a player retired number I don't care what the player begs you to do how much she wants to honor his own father who had passed away whatever the reason is you don't unretire number two. When you've got someone like Jose. Who, pass away and you are honoring him in the way that we were trying to honor him whether it's with a statue. That would be put in the East Plaza which he's deserving of or wet weather. It is a retired number whether it is some sort of plaque whatever the case is you don't screw around with that when you the team because you're so angry that you paid one point two, billion, you don't do it. It's petty it's wrong and it's joke. So and so this is not anti jeter there to situations with the marlins that can never be undone because they were wrong and they can't be fixed. So there are no retired numbers. Sorry Mike. No it's it's hadn't thought about no, it's all right and I I saw you get a little heated and I know Jose's that emotional topic for you and you sort of nudged me away from pushing on it and I know you said you didn't WanNa get started in you kind of got. Yeah really. Didn't know call barter but I was I I ran a franchise as the team President for sixteen. Years. It is sickening for me to think that a future president owner would do something to undo what I had done. And I'm watching it happened when I'm alive. I would not undo what highs Inga did or what Karl Barter did or honor that is bestowed upon people through an organization that would like if someone buys the Yankees. From steinbrenner eventually and it's no longer in their family and they say, you know what? There's twenty Dan retired numbers if you WANNA wear number one. Just taken number one it's a joke. I can see why it's also a personal thing for you not just because of the Jose connection that you had. But also when you put it in those terms, most people don't get to see themselves written away from history that usually happens after they pass and it's happened in sort of instantly to. So I can't even imagine how how difficult that must be for you to process I. Think we. Should end the podcast on your review this week because we had some really good stuff I had all sorts of questions about the mets sale. As now they're moving into an exclusive negotiation with Cohen and wanted to get your thoughts there. But we'll say that for next week as well as this very interesting proposition about an MLB cup, you know with my soccer routes that made me perk up. When I was preparing for today, because the audience may not know this your listeners, we don't talk about the show before it happens I don't have the questions I don't know which direction it's going to go and you prod me to remember certain things that I don't think about and that sort of your genius and what you do, and then we have these funny conversations back and forth. Is I was thinking about things. I would have guaranteed that you were going to bring up the Baseball Cup. So it's only that you didn't because as a soccer guy how could you not? I. Love It, and that's a good way to sort of make good with a lot of these minor league. It's very sad story. What happened to Minor League, baseball obviously a lot of enterprises have been affected by the global pandemic. These small towns and for the most part, I know there's some larger markets affected by this too. But Minor League. Baseball I just WANNA get with you probably next week on Minor League baseball as a whole. This is a good idea to help. Maybe recoup some of the loss money the lost revenue for these markets I see you hold it up a little teeny tiny space you don't think. This is first of all. Let's give a preview for next week. The chances of the Baseball Cup happening are about as likely as me donkey on a regulation. Hope no get get biometrics going because I wanNA see. I WANNA see that so bad because there's money to be made, this is an additional TV contract. You could sell it as a separate entity and there's revenue sharing for smaller towns, I? Think it's a great idea and your major league owner you're going to want your best pitchers pitching in a meaningless game against minor league teams I will to the tune of maybe fifty million dollars in my pocket. Okay. I. Remind is that the number that you think could come to each team? This is not Europe. Okay. What about twenty? Million Dollars yes? Yes. I be twenty million dollars fifteen million dollars. Fifteen. Million Dollars on the ground you're not gonNA, pick it up. Can I pitch like my number five starter? Will be really funny when when teams are having to play their own minor league affiliate and call up the Minor League affiliates Best Player to Pitch Against that minor league affiliate, you're GonNa have a bunch of upsets because baseball is random. You get a Lotta upsets in soccer hell. Even some of the top flight players are playing some lower division players I think it's a great idea. It's an additional television contract to sell three million dollars. You don't see you see three million dollars on the floor. You'RE NOT GONNA, pick it up. Yeah. But Not for the Baseball Cup now. It's going to be more than three million per team. All right. We didn't get your review last week. There wasn't one host of nothing personal David Samson go out and check out that podcast is great. What is your review for the week? I want to do a documentary and it's called Madman the Steve Madden story it's on Netflix so Steve Madden is the person who I knew from that he was the shoe guy because my kids liked Steve Madden, shoes and I didn't know that Steve Madden this whole time before I watched this I didn't know he was a person. Wolf of Wall Street though, right. Like I. Thought it was I did not know that was real. You thought that they just yields like a real person. To play Serum Addin, they used an actor to play Steve Madden Wolf of Wall Street, and I assume that it was sort of part of the dramatic story that they took this kid and made him and he was a little kid because he was played by a really young actor who I'd seen in some other shows. I thought it was Jason. Reitman. But I think it's his last name is Google that could be or something he's not Jason Reitman. But in any case I, it did not occur to me that person Steve Madden, I knew the company had gone public but I thought they made up that it was Steve Madden. So this documentary. taught me a that Steve Madden's guy. I had no idea that it was real that the real guy went to prison I'd no idea. He had become a prison of a convicted felon advocate and that he hired people he met in prison it reminded me of what Albert Brooks would have done if he could have to Don Cheeto in out of sight in a different. World. Albert Brooks would have hired Don cheadle outside of prison and had him working with him if you haven't watched out of sight and you`re Listening to this, watch it immediately with George Clooney Jennifer Lopez Albert Brooks Inbound Geel and then rams but Steve Madden in real life hired these men and it is such an interesting story about a driven man who's obsessed with shoes and now has a convicted felon operating a huge part of his huge shoe business and it was phenomenal. I enjoyed it. It's not very long. It was very informative and it made me WANNA buy Steve, madden shoes other than the fact that I realized that I can't by Steve Madden shoes. They don't make mail seaman and shoes anymore because they did back in over three I remember when a lot of getty is where rocking my see madden uncomfortable shoes look like clogs. They're very. He's into platforms right but now he's doing sort of. Shoes he walks around looks staring down at women's feet. I was not aware that I don't think again maybe this is part two that I actually I don't think Steve Madden makes men's shoes at least it was not one pair of men's shoes in the entire show I. I definitely had to Parisi's seaman shoes that I saw some more Orlands, playoff games and going over to friends house watching the road he was a real guy. Yeah. I, knew man was. A real guy I I knew she was a real guy I. I know there are some companies that have like a a real name that you just assume Oh, that's named after somebody and is just totally fabricated but after wolf of Wall Street because I knew that was sort of based on a true story I didn't assume they made the C man part up. So my take away from wall. Street had nothing to do with the Steve Madden part by. Focus I'm Margot Robbie and trying to figure out how that would work because I was on Wall Street and I never saw Margot Robbie I never had any sort of midget tossing I never had any of that. So that was disappointing. But in any case, I can only tell you that it's worth it to learn about his story and especially now with what's going on in Florida with voting rights for convicted felons and how how the impact that has an how you can actually get a second chance and it's really is worth watching. All right and next week after your compliance video and what to call little people we will circle back. But it was called in Wilford. Wall Street I. Know I know you. You're helped by the context but I, I just have to call Ya much Mike. David Samson. Nothing personal. We'll talk next week about this MLB Cup any any chance that I mean if you listen to the local hours outside of the ones that you have always been arguing for the NBA to do this. So I got super excited because MLB, you're absolutely going to have a situation where the Fort Wayne ten caps can win the whole thing a David Samson nothing personal. Thank you so much for the time. He talk and heat reaction coming up next on the big with the whole cast characters. We'll see you did you know Geico's now offering an extra fifteen percent credit on car and motorcycle policies? That's fifteen percent on top of what Geico could already save you. So what are you waiting for your dentist actually believe you and your flashing every day absolutely great time and you're cutting down on your sweet. So of course wonderful. 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