I'm shy. Today provide you with indepth news and expert analysis ten the who story hunt, the bigger picture for you, the news you want to know only on today. You're listening to today. I'm we Premier Li challenge as China's determined to keep its major economic indicators in the proper range he made her remarks at the great hall of the people following the annual session of the national legislature, the premier emits. China's economy is facing new dour pressure against a larger backdrop of slower economic global economic growth is China continue continuous Tex reductions and fee cuts foster new economic drivers expand market access and boost of Tallahassee of the country's vast number of market entities. The world's largest developing economy said the twenty nineteen GDP growth ranch between six and six and a half percent. So now for more in depth analysis of the Chinese premier's press conference were joined institute by our current affairs commentator, Victor gal and Michael powers Zurich insurance group professor of risk and finance at seeing university. And also, you can watch a live webcam broadcast of this discussion on Facebook, just search for China, plus news, you may wanna post the questions you want to ask there, and I will pass the questions to our guests. And also you can download our podcast simply searchable world. News analysis, apple podcast or any other place. You get your podcast for previous episodes and more topics. And now that's began our discussion, I think we can begin with the first question Premier Li answer this morning about China's macro economic development, so Victor, what can we tell about the major approach of the Chinese government to deal with this downward pressure from this morning's press conference. I think as prime minister Likud mentioned in the press conference. The Chinese cover is fully aware of the risks and challenges in the current economic situation in China, and the Donna would pressure is real on the other hand, I think. Premier Li could also demonstrated a high sense of confidence in not only being fully aware of the risks. But also being able to stay on top of the difficult situation. Indeed, it is true that the slowing down of the Chinese economy is generating another pressure. All many other parts of the world, mainly because there is a concern that that demand in China will shrink leading to less demand for products and commodities and raw materials in other parts of the world of therefore, I think primarily cajones remarks, a should serve as a vote of confidence for investors here in China and also equally importantly for investors outs out of China that the Chinese economic growth will be maintained at a higher or brisk rate at about six. Percent to six point five percent in two thousand and nineteen. And this compares very positively with a girl threats of almost all the other major economies in the world is specially on the basis of an ever increasing size of Chinese economy. So I think more or less I'm very confident about the economic growth prospect despite of the gradual slowing down of the growth rate eight itself. So Michael, what's your reading of the press conference? And how is the Chinese government planning to do to put the growth target of between six and six and a half? While I I would I agree with Victor. I think that the the government is indicated that it's a wear the the issue the cooling of the economy, but it's not interested in taking a dramatic actions or desperate actions. But rather actions that are are well tar. To the issues at hand, and that will address well will address the most effectively I think that in particular Premier Li made it clear that the emphasis will be on the fiscal side fiscal policy rather than monetary policy that they the government will be look intending to provide some tax relief for companies in particular through the VA VAT that tax system, and that it also is very focused on maintaining employment and providing new employment for the millions of people that will be entering the workforce. In the coming year. I believe that the estimates are somewhere between ten and fifteen million new employees will be joining the workforce. And I think that Premier Li indicated that although the initial prediction was the China would create about eleven million new jobs. More recently government has come to believe that it would be somewhat in excess of that preps closer to thirteen million on available. And I think that it's through the consumption that will be driven by by full employment or fuller employment and by the ability of companies to invest and expand prizes because of some tax relief. There is really expectation that the economy will cool somewhat. But it certainly will not fall below the range that the government is predicted we'd touch upon several points made by maiko in the later part up the show, but I talked about a bigger picture. We know it's a consensus among Chinese policy makers for in the longer term which fry to a market driven economy, which will make the market play very Akiro as Victor what kind of reforms are still needed to realize that like long term goal. Well, I think one theme very positive about the. Situation here in China is that Noah here is complacent. And I think all of us firmly believe that continue the reform and opening to the outside world is absolutely necessary for the continued growth of China. Now, it's very encouraging that in this overall context of this session of the National People's Congress adopted into law, the foreign investment law, and this is absolutely very necessary at this particular moment because it brought in several major changes in the way, how the foreign investment into China will be regulated I of introduced the negative list mechanism. So that foreign investors will no longer a worry about getting approval, for example, if they will investing areas, not restricted by the legacy of list, Secondly is very encouraging Navarre investments of all kind will get equal treatment as other. Forms of investments, including the stick state on enterprises, for example, private at the private prizes in China, and this will truly level the playground for foreign investors into China. It's very encouraging to see that there is a lot of ackknowledgement of the importance of foreign investment into China over the past forty years and continuously going forward, including investment as privileged. How mentioned from China's Hong Kong Macao and Taiwan promise. This is one of the examples to show that the Chinese system the Chinese government need to continue to work through arduously and relentlessly to make sure that the foreign investments into China will be well received and will continue to provide a pillar for the continued economic growth in China. So Victor mentioned this opening up side of the story. Michael. What's your? What kind of a long-term reform measures taken? I think that with regard to certainly with regard foreign investment, China is has been moving in this area. Year-by-year month-by-month really in a consistent manner over time people that you know, commentators might attempt to connect connect to recent policy change recent policy development to trade tensions. But really if one looks back at the past few years and sees the developments that have been occurring. Even prior to the advent of the Trump administration in the United States, one sees that there is this this continued opening it's very natural progression. And it comes about because China is a developing nation. It happens to be the world's second largest economy, but it's a developing nation, and as a developing nation, and it has to take or it had had to and has still has to take certain steps to protect its domes-. Attic manufacturers and industries, but over time they can relax and this has been done in a very conscientious methodical way over time. So I think that with regard to foreign investment and leveling the playing field. We are. We are just realizing the the the fruits of a long term plan in terms of persisting with reform of the domestic economy and the promotion of private industry development of private industry. I think they're also on some very good signs coming out of this meeting. And that what we will what we see is that it certainly is is high on the government's agenda to to provide tax relief perhaps to stimulate to stimulate investment by providing some on relief through through the lending of money in banks on route. Changing reserve requirements targeted changes targeted interest rate changes and so forth to encourage private businesses, especially small businesses to develop to invest in develop in the next year. So when we talk about this, a general picture of at least short term economic development, one popular question asked by our listeners that what about investment, especially basic infrastructure investment? If now we're talking about the increasing importance of consumption and also a Detroit and certainty surrounding China's export so Victor, how about the importance of investment how to stabilize at least. I think. Of the pasta ten years. Also, the three pillars for the growth of Chinese economy is investment, foreign trade and consumption. So I think investment, especially investment in infrastructure has always been very important pillar of the China's economic growth together with consumption and foreign trade now in terms of foreign trade China's experiencing some ahead wing, especially because of the pressure raised by the United States in the tire tariff war trade war against China. And this trait was still going on, and we hope Chinese government and the US government who will work together to put some of the pressures behind us. So that we can restore some kind of normalcy to sign oh, US trait. Nine terms of consumption. Absolutely. The Chinese consumer market is already becoming the largest consumer market in the world. And. I think the depth and the width and the sophistication of the consumption marketing China need to be further readjusted because I personally believe there will be increasing demand in the Chinese consumption market for more and more safer better and more sophisticated goods and services in terms of investment, especially in terms of the infrastructure investment. I'm firm believer that beauty up the infrastructure. The connective is for example, in all parts of China is really a recipe for more and more sustainable future growth in the country. These very large item investments will probably provide a growth potential for the Chinese economy for the coming fifty to one hundred years this will really make China small in terms of distance foster in terms of the shrinking. Of time in moving goods and services, and ideas and capital of from one place in China to another place in China. And I think this truly accelerates the growth potential in China, and we'll make sure that the economic efficiency in the country is much more enhanced with better connective. So I'm a firm believer and a great supporter of these very large item infrastructure investment projects. So Michael, what's your take on this like to what extent are we readjusting the relations between among the three pillars? I think that we're we're I would like to pick up from from victims comments is as to episode is that the government continues policy of heavy investment and infrastructure in the rural areas of the country and the rural areas of the country still hold a huge population and population offers potential, demand and. Demand for products that will will help to boost on the economy in the years to come. So I think that what what we what we heard from from the meeting is that the government plans to to stimulate demand for for goods and services in in the rural area to continue to invest in infrastructure to stimulate demand of in particular to provide more access to online services. So that purchases can can be made online and the same types of opportunities. That are currently available to us living in Beijing are available to people living in the countryside. I so I think that those those areas are very or that airing particular the rural areas, very important terms of stimulating demand and overall the pillar of consumer demand is extremely important and very prominent at the at the moment, and I think that what we will see is in addition to to the. Things. I already mentioned the government is going to be providing. Will be providing various types of subsidies and trying to prioritize the development of certain injury in industries such as a new technology vehicles, energy efficiency, and so forth. Thanks, and that's actual right here. In the next segment. We'll address some specific issues we mentioned in the first second about China's macro economic development, your Ning to tonight, stay with us. China. Plus dot cri dot CNN is your home for everything you want to know about China. The latest news in China and everything China-related from around the world. Everything can focus all in one place bringing you vital information feel business and travel Chinese culture language, learning and mall, shine, plus dot, CO dot C, N, China, plus dot cri dot C, N your portal in today's middle kingdom. You're listening to today were discussing China's domestic issues and also it's foreign policy. Now, let's talk about this text cod and fee reduction. We mentioned in the first segment so Victor Premier Li talk about this this morning that it will be implemented in coming month. So how effective do you expect those policy their impact on the private sector award small businesses while I do hope the policies bounced by primerica channel this money will be in. Implemented very faithfully. And the results will be very well felt in the business communities on the other hand allow me to emphasize that the burdens on the Chinese companies, especially for the smaller ambience is the privately owned enterprises are very onerous. It's not only the income tax. They are faced with, but also, including all the tariffs and charges, and is that the varies government entities tend to Levy on these enterprises, and I think combined together the tax and the levies and charges of fees. For example, actually, add up to very large button on these enterprises, especially for smaller, medium sized the privately owned enterprises. And I think it is time for the government to take very affirmative measures to make sure that the burden on the 'co-. This will be lessened and the companies will really be immense. Painted for example, at least their overall Burton should be comparible to for example, the US companies after the massive federal corporate income tax reduction because otherwise a we are really putting up so much burden on the Chinese companies or eventually, their efficiency and productivity will be severely handicapped. Not only for production here in China. But also, especially in terms of competition with their counterparties in other developed countries so victory mentioned implementation. Do you foresee any particular difficulty what challenges when it comes through the implementation? I of course, there will be difficulties for example in China because the countries so bake, and we have a structure of the central. At the top provincial government in the middle. And then city and local government on the third tier? Don't forget. Each of these provinces the size of a country in Europe, for example, in many other parts of the world, and sometimes the central government makes the right decision. But there is a kind of attempt at the regional level or the local level tried to succumb spent the central government's decision and tried to really wiggle their some rooms into the experiment implementation of these policies. But eventually the end result is that the culprits actually find themselves very helpless in dealing with these very excessive burdens on the companies, and eventually, for example, some of the companies have to close down all reduced staff. They have for the employment or. Even for example, sometimes state into relocate to some other countries. So I hope the policies and decisions announced by Premier Li Chang. First of all be very much faithfully implemented and the government should not stop here. The government should really size up the situation ongoing basis and really come up with more tax incentives. So that the Chinese companies of all kinds, we'll have a much less Burton im- going forward in doing that business and also in terms of competing with that counterparties in other parts of the world. Right. So my other challenge, I can think of is when we talk about this tax cut. We can imagine. There will be less fewer fiscal revenues for government. Not just the central government Republic, probably different governments from different levels. So how is the Chinese government trying to go with this? A situation or just to step back moment provide a little background minder standing is that actually last year. There was also a an intent to to lower taxes and to to grant relief and the the the tax relief was provided. But at the same time the collection mechanism was performed. And so that tax companies that hadn't been paying what they should have been paying in the past. We're being brought up to date, and we're we're paying the appropriate mounts. The government had made some improvements in the system that the victim was just talking about on the several several level system with cities and provinces and so forth. So the collection mechanisms should be improved. And there should be a now with with the indiv- indicated VAT reductions, which are which are well targeted. They're they're different reductions for manufacturing construction financial services. With with these reductions, I think that what you'll see is that the government does have the ability. To collect the taxes that that are in effect. And if there are lost revenues, they will they have very clearly indicated that the will be becalmed sitted for a couple of different ways one is by reducing spending in other parts of government, and that that's also difficult to implement, of course in any country. But my my my sense is that the government is comfortable that can achieve some some reduction in cost in those expenditures. And in addition, and what I think is very important favorable is indication that there will be transfers a fund from large so ease which which perhaps have received some favorable treatment in the past and have excess capital that will be traff transferred into the government revenue to to make up for lost. Tax dollar touch Renan be the come out of the new system. So victor. What's your take particularly Michael mation this methods to ask some SOS to transfer some money to to make up the loss at what you raise? The just now is actually philosophical question. One line of argument, always says that the governor need to collect more money and the government need to have a larger budget, for example, the need to spend the money for of righty of reasons, and if they collected less than they have less to spend and the people eventually will suffer, but the other hand there is another line of argument, which always says that the government actually does not need to collect so much money. They actually should spend less, and they should be more efficient. They should avoid the white elephant projects all the white elephant events, which cost so much money. Which are so ravage lavish, for example. And they should really practice frugality, and they should really avoid spending too much of tax payers money all these big item events now. And this line of argument always says that eventually the government reduces the burden on the companies or the individuals. Actually, you have the effect of creating a lodger pie. So eventually in do calls, at least the government eventually actually get more revenue coming in from the culprits off from the individuals. Now, I would say the immediate concern right now. The Chinese communities are faced with is that we need to really make sure that the people have enough money to dispose of by themselves, and the companies should have much less burden for example. So that they can increase their productivity. And then I. Donnelly would appeal to the cover nature's that they should avoid spending so much on some of the very much big show events, for example. So that we will achieve more or less the same results without over spending the money for the show of these events think of much that's rep up the first staff of oh program in the next half will continue our discussion about China's domestic issues and its foreign policies at our panel. Today's our current affairs commentator, Victor gal and Michael powers Zurich insurance group professor of risk and finance at the university. And also, you can watch a live webcam broadcast of this discussion. Facebook can just search for China. Plus news on Facebook. You may want to post your questions online and will pass to questions to our guests to to answer. And you can also download our podcast simply search for world. News analysis. On apple podcast, where any other places you get your podcast for previous episodes and more topics. You're listening to today. Stay with us. I am on Koch idea. I teach at the university in today has organized its programs, and it says on bringing in a lot of views from all over. It is an extremely good platform for information and analysis than I should all success in the future. China. Plus dot cri dot CNN is your home for everything you want to know about China. The latest news in China and everything China-related from around the world. Everything can focus all in one place bringing you vital information feel business and travel Chinese culture language landing and mall shine, plus dot CO, ri- dot C, N, China, plus dot cri dot C, N your portal in today's middle kingdom. Online on air and on your phone. Take today wherever you go. And stay ahead of what's changing our world from politics and the economy to business and technology today covers regional and international issues that affect China and the world Jeep up-to-date with today. You're listening to today. I'm su- each Premier Li could challenge the press on Friday at the great hall of the people after the conclusion of the annual session of the National People's Congress the national legislature here in China. So this absolute where discussing China's domestic issues and is foreign policy. Our panel is our current affairs commentator, Victor gal and Michael powers Zurich insurance group professor of risk and finance at Saint wa university. You can watch a live webcam broadcast of this discussion Facebook and also on Twitter just search for China. Plus news, you can also post your questions there and will try to answer those questions and don't forget you can also download our podcast simply search for world. News analysis, apple podcast, where any other places you get to our podcast for previous episodes and other topics you may find interested, and that's continue our discussion about China's. Economic issue and other topic. We mentioned in the first half is this foreign investment law. They entire law was released actually earlier today. And I need doesn't take many long for anyone to finish the whole thing. So Victor, how big of a change does this law would make I mean to replace the previous separate laws in this room. Yes, I think the preparation for this new law has taken several decades actually of there have been preliminary proposals to all kinds of amendments or changes to the previous regulations Coveney foreign investment in China for years and this. NBC session. Finally, all the good work over the years combinations. In a good debate. Among the data gates of NBC and eventually passing this law as we just mentioned, I think there are two key provisions. One is the negative list provisions and the other one is the leveling of the playground for all kinds of enterprises, including foreign investments into China. Now. I personally believe this will really create a lot of predictability and transparency and freedom of all the enterprises coming from all parts of the world into China because they will no longer go through the so called approval process. They just need to make sure that the investments they will make in China. I'm not the prohibited on the negative list. Dow, let me just be very briefing, Driesen example, previously, for example. There was a rule saying any provincial government in China can only approve for investments up to thirty million US dollars for one single investment. And keep you mind we talking about these provinces which are imitators Najah than a country in Europe. For example. There are so many provinces like the tram province, her name province Cuando province Shandong province, for example, which have each population of more than one hundred million and to have these kind of revelatory approches on the pods on the Chinese provincial governments in their proving for investments now is very clear, it's a kind of unnecessary hindrance. And I think using the negative list will really free up not only for investors come into China. But also the government's at different levels in China. To be more focused on what the good at in doing rather than all the paperwork all the red tape, for example. And I think foreign investors will be much more Emagel when they do these investments into China soul. I believe this foreign investment law will become a new landmark in any challenge will really become a new enabler for investments, and this also demonstrates that this at this particular moment of China's growth, we fully acknowledged the importance of the foreign investments into China over the past forty years, and we want to make sure that the foreign investments are continuously welcomed and will become increasingly important because nowadays while we talk about for events. It's not only the money they bring in. It's also the technologies the technical know-how the brand's distribution network and the new way of. Of doing things are locking things. I think all these are absolutely what China will need in many years to come into the future. So Michael, how do you expect this will be received by other countries, particularly the business world, I think that will be very well received. And I think victims, right? This is a landmark and going to going back to something. I said earlier this is an indication that China believes that it no longer needs to protections for various domestic industries, even though it is still a developing Connie, but they're now creating this level playing field and apart from the negative list, which is really items that have more of perhaps national security strategic of concern, and aren't aren't there primarily for protectionist types of reasons the country is ready for for competition for a level playing full. Field and full competition. So I think that foreign foreign investors potential foreign investors, foreign governments will see this as a very positive step. But I think in addition to this the indication the statement by Premier Li regarding the technology transfer issue, and the fact that was not part of China's law was not part of the Chinese policy that that companies foreign companies would be forced to transfer technology as part of the joint ventures, and China, I think that that will also be seen very favourably abroad. And the fact that the the central government has as indicated an intent mechanism for dealing with infractions of that that that sort of forcing technology, transferring if a curse is is particularly important, and is something that that investors will look at very closely. As well as foreign governments. So at another side of the story. I can't think of like Mike just mentioned less protection and ready for competition. What about domestic players like Victor, how quick do expect? This will put more pressure on Chinese domestic players in. That's. There is a level of concern among domestic players because that has always been level of apprehension that once the country opens up the door wide of foreign participation. They'll be negative pressure on the domestic players probably will be faced up with more pressure. More competition, for example. However, I think we need to look at the situation in a different way that is philosophically speaking more competition there is the better it is for China as a whole and also it is better for the Chinese players why because no one in China shoot build itself into big room of protection of our example, set behi- wall of protectionism try to seek the level of safety all comfort in protected environment. Was we have more level playground? Once the country is more and more open to all kinds of competition, for example, including foreing competition, the environment of the business who will actually become healthier a more positive. So I hope our domestic companies will learn this not only from philosophical perspective. But also truly know that this is the time to live up to the expansion live up to the pressure from everywhere or any corner in the business community and the key to a better survival going forward is always a relentless endeavor and innovation and entrepreneurship and don't be afraid of competition from foreign parties coming to China. A welcome such competition as an opportunity and eventually a more competitive world will. Will generate a result of better qualities banter products, better safety records for any and all the players in doing business here in China facts. A little reminder for our listeners, you can also watch a live webcam broadcast of this penalty on Facebook. And also on Twitter just search for China, plus news, and also you can post your questions online, and we'll try to answer those questions, and that's move onto innovation. Victor just mentioned innovation and the first question is about the sharing economy earlier today, a Premier Li set when he comes to the several quite high profile like sometimes safety incidents regarding the sharing economy in China last year. He's he said when it comes to regulation of those new companies he said, not to let it be abut war. But instead of also not down once there is a problem. So Vetere, how'd you? See this approach of the Chinese government to regulate that the new economy. I think you probably are referring to some of the new phenomenon into business in China involving new business models, for example, in China from the government's perspective there is an eagerness to promote more innovations, and they actually tend to approve for new types of the businesses Neil concepts, for example, new business models, which emeny other countries of the government's all the regulators actually have a higher level of scrutiny against these businesses as primarily correctly Pontius out where you do allow these new business models to take place all even to flourish. There are both pros and cons. There are rewards as well as risks. And because many of these new business models. Completely new and the country all the consumers of the society at large enough for prepared or sometimes they don't even know what will be the downside of negative or damaging consequences. They will bring in. Sometimes we end up with some huge losses. Autism Astor's all business scams. For example. However, I think primarily giants also very correctly pointy out that the government should really be more balancing dealing with this on the one hand, I think China still need to really adopt a very on day shis way in encouraging these new businesses taking shaping China. But all the other hand, I think consumer protection and fraud prevention and info sment of all kinds and also a mechanism which can really spot some of the foul play mechanisms in these new business models should take. So that eventually while way, give them enough incentive to try and experiment with new ideas and new concepts. There will also be very speedy and effective mechanism to pick up the signals of foul play and eventually come to quick solution of these major problems to avoid major disasters all very bad consequences of for the Chinese consumers. Right. So Mike like Victor mention it's not just an issue in China. We know there is a debate in other parts of the world about regulation on those like internet giants were companies. So what's your observation of the approach of the Chinese government? I think that the the controversies that exist on the maybe the calls for regulation differ by country and differ by continent on in the United States. Their concerns about. Some of the the very big high tech companies and often they have to do with privacy issues privacy issues. But then also there their issues of monopoly and control of information and control of the use of information. And of course, then in those play with that in privacy. So that people actually calling to break up some some of the big players at the moment. I'm not sure how that's going to play out Europe has expressed. Concerns in the privacy area privacy has for the past. Couple of decades has been a bigger concern. I would say in Europe than it was in the United States. And and so they're probably that will be more of the focus than issues of monopoly concentration and so forth in China. I think that with innovation as Victor said there, and I it really depends on what particular industry are looking at and who the possible winners and losers are we have in the sharing economy the shared bike market, where investors lost a lot of money. I think many of those investors were actually quite well to do investors. And so perhaps if they are informed investors, and they lose money that's less of a concern that if they are small small retail investors in the area of online lending shadow. Banking peer to peer lending and particular on there is concern. And and there there have been a concern with with people lending investing. That are not such that is not such well to do wealthy individuals and in that area, it it's more important that the government play a strong regulatory role to protect the smaller investors. And indeed, that's what happened in that industry. And the government has taken some great strides to reduce the reduce the dangers just influence and the dangers of the shadow banking industry as part of its overall de leveraging effort, in fact, I would say that perhaps that area is the most successful in terms of reducing inefficiency of through through excessive lending. So I think that innovation. Yes. I think China is maybe because of of the maybe the civil Justice system. Item the nature of the regulatory system the stratification of government, but the the principal control from the central government of certain types of regulatory issues. I think that it can allow the development or experimentation of of certain types of products that other countries might be reluctant to do. And but at the same time, it it has the the ability to intervene much more quickly than some other countries such as the United States where the system requires often requires the use of the court system to accomplish a regulatory end, which can be accomplished in China much more quickly through the regulatory authority directly. Thank you very much before we enter our last segment. Take a short break. Here. Your distinct today stay with us. Breaking news and stories that matter to you twice on Twitter by searching for China plus news, where we'll share with you are up to the minute use in-depth analysis and livestream videos. Visit China plus news for your window on China and the. Hi, this is either Chang. The today's show brings experts local and international perspectives on China's economic and business issues having been in law governments and finance in the United States. I find China's economic and political evolution fascinates. And hope you do. Also, thank you for listening. You're listening to today. I'm sweet Chinese Premier Li Coachella meta press on Friday at the great hall of the people after the conclusion of this year's session of the Nash annual session of the National People's Congress. So this absolute where discussing China's domestic issues and also some of foreign policy. Our panel is current affairs commentator, Victor gal and mica powers Zurich insurance group professor of risk and finance at a team university. A reminder for our listeners can also watch a life webcam broadcast of this penalty scotch in on Facebook. And also on Twitter just search for China plus news, and now, let's continue our discussion since we're talking about innovation. I wanna bring up a topic five G a personal formation is that probably these days, we focus too much on the competitive side of the story of the five technology instead of the real benefits where maybe real business models five G cambering to the world to China. So Victor, what's your division? Of the case in China. Well, first of all five G, Israel, five G is coming and five G will completely reshape the whole world in terms of all walks of life, ending terms of how things are down by companies by society by the government or by individuals. So let's face up with this great megatrend and the realities. Secondly, there are Chinese companies in cruelty away, for example, which are indeed in the cutting edge of the five G technologies. Third point that me and allow me to make a five G as far as I understand will involve at least two aspects. And these two aspects are very much combined together like the two sides of the same coin that is one side is the infrastructure. The other side will be the applications which will be build our top of the applications now both are equally important. Let me give a point of my own personal observation too many countries in the world. Now, if you do not build up a very high-quality five, gene at work, the applications eventually you will add on top of the five G network will be gob age in garbage out. So those countries will eventually lose out on two fronts. First of all, you have less of a high quality and affordable and reliable and safe network to start with Secondly, all the applications you build on top of that will be sub quality now in five G because the more advanced than excel A-Rated speed and the seamless applications, you cannot really fault to be amiss by any chance in terms of. Let's say pilots, Dr pilotless driving, for example, if you're. Network is not really up to standard. If the applications are up to standard, you will be talking about loss of human lives. So I would say for all those governments which are really tried to use either protectionism to screen outset and company in favor of others, for example, or for example, out of desperation or ever seeing for example, instinct, they are really going to cause a lot of harm to their own country and to their own consumer. So I would say when mankind is all the threshold of with this going through the five G revolution. Let's be very objective. Let's be very much focused on the real thing. That matters that is a high quality network of five G and on top of that. All. All the relevant applications on top of the network to Mike. Oh, how'd you evaluate the potential of gene China? I think it's it's going to be dramatic. If I had any concern. My concern would be that. Perhaps as says, the technology is fantastic. It's a great step forward. If there's a concern, it might be that perhaps we don't yet have the applications for some for for some of the potential that's being offered. The biggest area where hear people talk about applications is in the so called internet things. Any kind of mechanisms that require not just rapid connect connective, but a constant dual back and forth collectively multiple connections to the same note. And so forth will be enhanced. So the for example, the the driverless vehicle or the driverless or the pilotless drone all of these things are now an experimental stages. China's doing it the United States is doing it Europe to doing it. But it will be the ability will be greatly enhanced in terms of the amount of information and the speed that the information of can be transmitted which will greatly reduce the potential for accidents and other types of of damage or inefficiencies that could result from the system. So I really think that we will begin to see a more use of of these interactive things these mechanisms that we can perhaps ourselves, but certainly as government or companies will be able to provide a through internet connections. We probably will be able to to access more and have control over more things through our smartphones much as somebody today might be able to control a drone through a smartphone. And that seems pretty remarkable. I'm we'll be able to do many things we'll be able to perhaps have much. Much better interaction with delivery service. We will perhaps be able to follow our package. A not just once it gets to the delivery person at the final stage, but everywhere through the process and not just by seeing something presented on a computer screen, but by interacting and asking questions moment by moment. I think that there there really are tremendous potentials of that will come about. And I think that re- referring to to something that we covered earlier in terms of the regulation that is is likely and that is needed. This is something I mean, one difference is of course, in terms of the technology choices that the different countries. Make and the competitiveness and other things that are involved with that. But in terms of the regulation, this is an area in which I think that there could be very dramatic differences between China and the United States because of the the nature of the civil. Justice system and the types of regulations that come into play when one is flying drone around or one is driving a vehicle around and they're human beings at risk. I think that the the ability to to introduce pilot programs and speedily improve this market is something that China may be able and our vantage the China may have over the United States. Thanks was have time to address a foreign policy question. This morning premier Likud shell made it clear he said, it's basically impossible to couple China and the United States, Victor, we understand that this general attitude. Well, I think primerica channels very confident of very balanced and very much composed in describing China's foreign policies as well. As for example, very important relations between China and the United States it also instructs level of confidence Premier Li. John himself as well as as represented by him, the Chinese leadership as a whole in terms of understanding the real crux of the better in China US relations. I think is very courage in that the Chinese leadership is very fully convinced that a nothing fundamentally wrong will happen between China the United States causing resulting in that decoupling of China US rations after all China US relations are very much intertwined with each other and the two economies are very much interconnected with each other and trying to achieve completed de-coupling will first of all not be possible for Secondly, it will be hugely damaging to the fundamental interest of the American people to start with but also of those will be damaging to the Chinese people. And therefore, I hope they'll be no one, really. Out of their decency or out of their mind in trying to pursue such a fraud the policy of trying to decouple the economy's all the society at large in China with that of the United States. It's a mission impossible. I think the better way as the Chinese leaders have described again, again is that whether you like it on China and the United States will need to learn how to get along with each other. Thank you very much. Unfortunately, that's all the time. We have for this edition of our panel. And I wanna thank our guests current affairs commentator, Victor gal and Mike appears Zurich insurance group professor of risk and finance at its university. And don't forget you can't download our podcast by searching for world news analysis. I'm so we have nice weekend.