Covert Narcissism Revisited


Everyone welcome welcome to Dr Judy. W. T. F. And tonight we are revisiting the topic of covert narcissism. I'm going to be doing a little bit of comparing and contrasting the overt narcissist with the covert narcissist so that you could understand the difference and I want to start by saying first of all on the founder of the healing center and the creator of the mind map system for. Healing human disconnect. And if you don't know anything about it pick up a copy of my free. Pdf book which you can download off my website and you can also purchase the soft copy on Amazon Dot Com. The book will give you a very insightful and thorough explanation of all the nine panels that I will be referring to a lot today because narcissism narcissistic injury is predicated on childhood wounds. So I want to start first by saying that. This is a call in show so please do call in and that number is three two three five two four two four nine nine to five nine nine. Sorry three two three five to four twenty five ninety nine and if you do call in keep the subject relevant and keep it rather short because I know that Many people will have questions about this Unfortunately it is a very popular topic because there's a lot of narcissistic injury going on and It starts with being injured by your primary caregivers. Mother father and then it just gets worse into choosing people who pick Choosing people who replicate the wounds of childhood and then it just keeps on devolving into chaos panel for panel five and panel six. I WANNA start by Reading a little bit from an article by Doesn't even say but it's it's it's Freud's interpretation of narcissism according to fraud. We are not born with a Nego. Our sense of having a soft evolves during infancy. And what happens? During this time as we are D- allies are love objects and then he continues to say that we have deficits in our egos. We have lost particular fine quality and we WANNA substituted out by Looking for it in those we love. So let's start with with Auto Heintz Co hoot and who is a self psychologist in electric for to the analyst the analyst for explanation? 'cause they go pretty deep the only issue that I have. Is that a so long to get to the childhood wounds and work them through so according to cohoots self psychology model an article by Jamie Maclean. Md Dr Cystic Psycho. Pathology is the result of parental lack of empathy during development. So far he and I are on the same page because my My definition of narcissism is the lack of empathy which leaves one with apathy which leaves the person to not care about other people and all kinds of things will go wrong. If you just simply don't care According to Co whose concept. There's a vacillation between an irrational over estimation of the south and feelings of of inferiority which is the idealization of the sell off and then the devaluation of the self which makes for a pretty Rocky road an internal rocky road and we have a caller so hello. Who is on the couch with me? What is your name please? My name is Brian Hi Brian. Welcome to the show and Where you from? I'm from Michigan. Okay thank you so much for calling in and so what the Freud is going on with your life With regards to narcissism particularly covert narcissism covert narcissism. The timing couldn't be better. I left my job at the end at the end of December My my boss. Who I knew for eight years Basically I encountered a bully situation. It wasn't me who is being bullied. It was a CO worker. Who who was very ill actually. And the people who are doing the bullying where people who had bullied me previously many years earlier However my boss when I went to her it was the strangest situation First of all when I I told her about it She she kind of gave me many many reasons why it happening. And all this and then when when the person who was being bullied later ended up in the hospital. I Call I You know called my boss again and said you know you haven't done anything about this. This is this is ridiculous and she she basically said will you never told me that and then we were on the phone for two and a half hours and I couldn't even really get the Get her to acknowledge. Any of it. IT. It was so strange and so bizarre the way she was Reacting and the next time the bully situ I was involved in witnessing more of the bullying gave my notice for the job by the. I'm sorry I said good for you. You'RE NOT GONNA want to be part of that system correct. But I ended up googling her Googling the the kinds of things she was doing and that's how the covert narcissism you know it was it was pointed out to me And it all made sense from from Things that had happened previously The the martyr or sort of complex where the idea that something you know. She was victimized. But then you know Is so many things. And I'm kind of getting jumbled here because I I didn't know that I would expect actually to get on but I did so well I'm Gonna. I'm GONNA do this. I'm going to read off the Features of narcissism. Okay and then. We'll make the distinction between the overt and covert but you can already see the denial right `they excusing the The inability to own her own stuff. She's not able to say yeah. I missed that one. I feel horrible. The the the lack of empathy. So here it is. Grandiose sense of self importance preoccupation with fantasies of success power brilliance and beauty believe that he or she is special and unique and can only be understood or associate with those that are also high status or special and unique requires excessive admiration has a sense of entitlement is inter personally exploitive. Lock sympathy often envious of others and beliefs that others are envious of him or her and displays arrogant and haughty behavior. So what do you think this This weird where does your your ex fall on this list. I would say many of those with the. With the exception of the expe- I never felt the exploitive nece Until this this She she would always. She always She she would kind of do things. It was a strange situation. She would do things for you but she would. She was always pointing them out. You know so so she did something for you than it was. You know it was pointing out pointing it appointing. Those things always so never like tape. Pay Pay Back. Time was coming payback time or unit to acknowledge that. I'm always doing these things now for the sake of kindness or whatever for the sake of You need to recognize that I am always doing. Good for you Almost like almost like it wasn't intentional kind of like the. She was only doing it so she could later. Hold IT UP. Okay and look and look good or use it as a reason to block Let's say she did something that wasn't so good. Then she could say well. No I done all of these things for you. You know Almost like a An insurance policy against when she she could she could keep it in her back. Okay I call it the psychological accounting. So she's doing some pretty good psychological accounting and that she will put some positive deeds into the good basket and then if she slips up and it falls in the bad basket she can always pull out the good basket and say look. Look what I've done for you so stay stay with me. I'm just GonNa read a little bit about Co who'd Heinz Co who's Self psychology model an article by Jamie Maclean MD and I'm reading it 'cause I want you guys to understand the root cause of all of this according to Co hoot narcissistic psycho pathology is the result of parental lack of empathy during development and this lack of empathy can take all kinds of forms from my perspective. I've seen take the form of control and manipulation I've seen it takes the form of out and out child abuse Physical sexual emotional and I've also seen it take the form of of abusive abandonment and so in essence the person is not being mirrored so it seems like your boss is looking for the mirroring. So she'll do this this this this and then she'll hold it up and say don't you see what I've done? So can you see how that relates to lack of mirroring in her childhood and now she's just kind of trying to get it from her her work from from the picture people at work. Okay and then. What happens is a an irrational over of the self and a irrational feelings of inferior quality and they rely on others to regulate their mood which is where she becomes the do-gooder so Going further into this narcissistic traits are president. A large number of patients according to This article and they swing back and forth between depression and anxiety because they do not ultimately know how to self regulate because they don't have a strong sense of self like Freud said there's no strong core I don't know about these statistics. But here's what this one says. Approximately eighteen percent of males and six percent of females have narcissistic traits and the prevalence of full blown. Npd is Anywhere from two to sixteen percent and at the Distorted tends to be more predominant in males fifty to seventy five percent males and Over females and I don't I don't know how they prove such a thing. But this is what the article says so here again. Grandiosity need for Admiration lack of empathy. So does this all make sense to you in light of your boss. I think so I think so. Absolutely some of the some of the things to Sh- she kind of came from a culture. That was more male You know males were more appreciated and she was the only daughter and to me even before I kind of you know. Did the googling of the behaviors or whatever and kind of pointed in that direction. I always had the impression that Probably as a child she w- you know he almost kind of display these behaviors of like I worked at a an industry and we had Our boss was kind of somewhat well known internationally so if she was with our boss and she was on stage or something. You would almost see this like little girl. Come Out What was what was she like. she would Tilt her head back. So we're harewood kind of rest on her shoulders and become very shy and Mike Gurley and if if if our boss was talking saying Nice things she would I I would be embarrassed for her. To to be honest. It was almost as if she was Y- Like a little kid and she was. She was being called out for doing something good. And and then you know this. This behavior of like Very shy and kind of giggly. In you know just Like like she was like like it was an elementary school sort of reward. She was getting one thing that I'll get into more is about arrested development because when when we recognize in people that they're stuck at a certain stage that's simply means to me that they did not develop and that's something cast a shadow over them and in the mind map system. I talk about the five childhood wounds which are Physical Abuse Sexual Abuse Verbal Abuse Neglect and smothering and all of these costs injury and obviously all of them are signs of a lack of empathy. And so sometimes people do. Is they regressed to those points and then they play them out on other people hoping to heal. And that's what I call the. What the Freud. Because we're going back into the pattern and we want to forward the program but the people that we picked two four four with usually Knock US down and set us back so I don't know what she was doing up there if she was getting some narcissistic supply. Or maybe not But you could see you could see with your own eyes that childish arrested development any other questions or comments that you have about your boss or These these these features that come out of childhood injury so this is not like You're born with it. This is the shadows cast over you. That create these childhood wounds in these horrible Defense mechanisms. Any other crush. Oh my I guess my question would be Especially with a covert narcissists. Are they aware that they are using these tactics? the especially the gas lighting and the denying of reality when I was you know coming to her with these. You know eyewitness accounts of things that were happening and she was denying it. Flat my face. I mean that's a great day aware that they're doing it or are they Look let's say. They're at their thoroughness survivor mode. They have to look a certain way. And so they're GONNA do whatever takes to have that look that way. Okay so there there strategizing so in the sense. They know that they've got to strategize all of this. I don't think they're right. They're not retarded. They can't forget that you told them. back in the day that this person may be in trouble and then for her to come back and say. Why didn't you tell me that's up and up and up a gaslight? Isn't it so It was a it was so it was so strange. Because I've known this person for so long it was such A. It was such a strange bizarre situation to hear that You know I didn't get that from our conversation and then you know to go on with the two and a half hour conversation engines again did Ni- as it's coming out of my mouth or or You know denied that it happened. When I was an eyewitness I think a good way to answer the question which is difficult to answer which is do they really planned this out is. Is it a reaction or is it a calculated action? I think with sociopath easy. It's more of a calculated action that they are going to Ponzi scheme you're GONNA somehow Take full advantage of you in some some way or psychopathy where they're planning on this murder. Okay it's really planned out but don't forget. These people have a very fragile ego and underneath this grandiose self which fluctuates between idealization of the self and devalue the self devaluation of the self and then idealization of other people which she watched your boss Stew with regard to the the the main person at the company. And so they're in a they're in a really really painful world and so they're just trying to regulate and and survive and they'll do it at other people's expense and that's the problem. Okay so I'M GONNA go on with with some information here in mind maps some of it and Bryant thank you very much for calling in for Michigan and of course reach out any time to to the psychological healing center okay. I'm halfway through your book and I love it. I think for everything you do. It's been tremendously helpful to me. For other reasons. Other than this. This was like a bonus I could go on and on about other things I learned through you so I really appreciate it all. Oh my pleasure and for those of you who are needing more help from recovering from narcissistic abuse I'm a busily working on a project with my passionate life coach who is passionate about we. helping people to recover from narcissistic abuse it's Epstein. He's part of the team We're doing a full-on video. That will be available. Hopefully as soon as it's edited and put together nicely and it will be the mind map journey to recovery from narcissistic abuse. It's based on My my book my Mind Map and it's Epstein will be hosting that video and So yeah so so look for that or ask about it and we'll tell you approximately when and how to get it. So moving along yeah. I'm excited it's really quite profound. It's really a lot of information compacted in a video. Okay thank you and I think we have another caller. Hello you are on the couch with Dr Judy. Hi Hi what's your name. Hello what's your name Larry? Hi My name is Martin my my Yeah Okay. Nice to meet you. Where are you calling from California California Okay Northern Southern Wood? Okay okay so what the Freud is going on with you and narcissism particularly Kobe. Yes yes My mother Turn OUT TO BE COVERT narcissist. I have had traveled with her pretty much. My entire realized maybe I should say maybe around nine ten something like that started to get really worse and then I I have been trying to please her. You know for for like fifty years and then here's lobue cited her no. Yeah well no into my friend. Who is a psychologist said that you know what I think about? Covert narcissist so. I'm curious how you think of the covert versus the over. What makes you think that your mother is a narcissist and specifically a covert one so basically all the abuse acceptable physical and then sexual abuse was going on for my entire life especially controlling smothering and then old that She does like a smear campaign. JIM my Sibling I mean my sister my cousins and then my aunts and uncles and then See I couldn't well and then when I was younger I never thinks she was like into my room and they read my diary and then she's like so shameless and then she was playing to me about what I wrote in the diary. Because you know I I was basically you know calling her words she and she read it and she yelled at me. I mean she basically ways and then I was like why are you reading my jaw? And then she was like what's wrong with that. I mean like mother should be concerned about the well-being of the daughter. Because I care about you and Yeah that's like Ali the Red Flag and then it was getting worse and worse. I mean like when I get a phone call from boys. She would go on and on about like what they do at their parents do. And then she tried to control me all of that and then also like you know which schools to go to right. This is everything the is under the category of Control Manipulation Invading. Your privacy so the covert. Narcissus is not your typical flashy Goal lots of gold chains and driving a I don't know for a kind of narcissists that that the nicest person and somebody doesn't think that you give us a sense because she's a nice person and I'm very generous to other people but then I were the golden child out to be a scapegoat because She wanted to see really see me as extension over and then she just does not accept any you know see and I are very different or cut. Then she just cannot accept outside including you know what I wear and then hairstyle and then how I think so. Because I couldn't stand it I basically. I was born and raised in Japan and then I left Japan. One day As a twenty seven year old basically run away from home okay came to the US. Because I you know try to live by myself and then every time I tried to live by my cell phone go to other city for college and everything independent region and does not allow me to do that. Okay we'll out of control and also you know one thing that I take a lot into consideration our cultural wounds and the way the culture of worms is is is It's it's very hard for people to think they're doing something wrong. Because oftentimes they're just following the rules in roles of their culture so they're not they they're controlling thinking. Okay so I wanna stay on the phone and I'm going to read you The the covert narcissist okay overt versus covert narcissists. Both stuck and what I see is that they are stuck in some kind of an arrested development. And this is an article by Julie Hall and she talks about the difference so okay so the the covert narcissist lacks the brash confidence in public attention. So they're more like a shine narcissist. They prefer to stay on the sidelines. So if if they're the center stage that they're probably more overt and if they're behind the scenes They're probably more the of the covert and they are harder to SPA. Which is why so many people show up at the psychological healing center and say. I had no idea. I mean I was fooled by this and this really caught me off guard and now I could see that my anxiety and my depression and my trauma bond complex PTSD which we describe a lot about in the the the narcissistic abuse of video. All of that is due to this. Lack of mirroring this manipulation control and this styling of wants identity which she did. She tried to tell you who today what to wear how to be Violated your diary and on and on and on okay so so here area it is so It's very in line with with my thinking so harder to spot just as selfish entitled and manipulated as the overt variety whether bold bullies like we're shrinking violets. The shy type they have well honed. Survival skills so you know smear you and It's going to be you. They'RE GONNA project on U They depend in troy. Got That I am selfish right lots projection. I mean look. The best defense is less accuse you of what you're thinking about me and You know let's project it on the other person so that you can start questioning yourself. Am I sell fish right? Yeah so because another power that apparent has is we idealize them? There are are role models so they say that we're selfish. We will often times buy into that. So it's a trick you know she. She couldn't one yup she didn't succeed. Yeah and the thing is because I basically run away and then came to the. Us just situation got EBA worked because now she's guilt tripping me big time. Oh It's been like thirty years and then Basically she's you know I'm really afraid of calling her because she's eighty eight and then just like the Chinese lady who you had the you know The colour of you weeks ago. I feel like I'm going local tests. But then she constantly complaining about it but then because she guilt trips and then you know call me all about names and then what a horrible person I am like you know the worst person in the whole world and then also thing. I'm referring back. You know basically vicious cycle of not being able to call then. I tell them even more guilty and then doesn't end and you know the surfing is even if you feel tenderhearted and think. Oh she's eighty eight years old. I think I'll call her. You're opening up this this whole can of worms and then boom. She's going to be after you. So what do you do? It's a delicate thing. But I wanted to advice I do. They really need to go visit because my aunt died yesterday. Well a little bit younger than my mother. My sister told me about it and then I was like sorry. I have to call my mother and they say okay. Okay so you you keep the contact short you limit. It often recommend Low contact. I guess they call it. Wait Gray Rock and you don't show your feelings to somebody with these narcissistic qualities. Because trust me they will use your feelings against all the manipulate them. Okay so I would say the alive. Oh she will and also being Japanese. I'm imagining that in your culture. You Owe your parents loyalty and you owe respect so so this is from her. Is your horrible daughter. Okay so you will never. You will never win the worst. And she'll never own her own stuff which is a quality that narcissists Lack they just don't know how to self reflect self-correct so look lay low if you can't stand it then I guess e mail her somebody else deliver the news and I always tell people put yourself I put yourself i. You deserve it. Because they didn't put them. I try to use my sister to convey to You know my message to her liver thing she really wages and then a movie okay. Plan B. OR C. Whatever you WANNA call it. How about a a sympathy card or some kind of a a letter even if it's an email letter Mom really sorry doing part of me. I haven't called it so to my mother like you know. I have a cold her. Sorry but I hope that you would do well. Kind of thing about my fasting. Yes I contacted Pres. Don't worry that I haven't done there. We go okay so So that's the deal you you lay low. You don't give her feelings. You try to show as much Empathy as you can But Number One. So you okay. I don't feel the empathy. I showed the influence you you're why you're episodic 'cause you're a good person and you are it because your heart and you know you don't want your mother to turn you into colts stone which doesn't mean that you have. Jeff Poor on the love is just that if we really peel back the curtain than these people have been very very injured and they struggle with self esteem. They struggle deep way with shame and they have a horrible defense mechanisms of control insulation gas lighting and demeaning devaluing and destroying others. And they never he l. and there. I don't think they're going to be showing up any time soon. at the psychological healing center and. I don't think they're GONNA BE EXPLORING. Covert and overt narcissism. This is a topic they will keep away from because they don't want to unpack their baggage because it's too painful so they'll just stay this way. They'll stay defend it. Got It okay so you do the bare minimum. Keep yourself safe and you don't have to allow you. Open the door for her to vomit all over you. Okay okay all right. Thank you so much okay. You're very welcome. Good night okay. There's just so much epidemic out there. I think this world is. That's why I wrote a book called. Be The cause healing human disconnect because this is all about mother infant disconnect father infant disconnect family disconnect and we're disconnected from than we fall into reactions and low self esteem core beliefs. Like we're not worthy. Were not good enough. And in order to defend against all this not good enough stuff then we will either Aggrandize ourselves and look good and create a beautiful spouse self or will kind of get shy and passive aggressive and manipulative and act as if The the personal act as if they're the sweetest in the world and I've mentioned this on another video but I got I got Suckered that's the best way to put it by covert narcissist and I have a PhD right so this is not supposed to happen to me. But it's just so subtle and why it's so horrible getting healed from this because you don't see it coming. You just think that this is the nicest most honest person until you find out that they're cheating and they have a double life and they're using you and they're draining your finances. And but they don't necessarily come on all that strong with their ferraris and their gold chains or in woman's case they may not come out on all that strongly with with a with a beautiful Wardrobe and and flashy look and and so on and so forth so this is a very insidious and that's where we get stabbed most is when you just don't see it coming so here. Here's the article about the case. So we know the general narcissistic traits lack of empathy. Delusions of grandeur reacting bitterly Manipulation intolerance of criticism never genuine apology or taking responsibility. Lying to themselves like Bryant was talking about the the the boss was lying to herself Lying to others rationalizing their words and actions. How does matter how inappropriate foster rude? That's the cover up so there's a lot of lying going on and you know you buy into it and I can say that I bought into it. Why 'cause I wouldn't dream that people would do that to me? I have this naievety so now. I'm a little wiser and less vulnerable to this So they so those are the over over traits are attract attention. Demand Admiration charm and flatter. Study the room for the most vulnerable person. There Eric in haughty they're given to rages. 'cause they get easily triggered in their core belief of unworthy shameful they view others as competitors to be defeated they ridicule mocking demeaned evaluate destroys. I like to put it and they project entitlements special treatment and they will turn on and off at will with their charms so when they're on. It's very believable. But when they turn off it's quite shocking. Covert narcissistic traits passive aggressive. I think that's the number one thing to watch out for is they will pay you back in ways that you don't see it coming there smug they're insensitive and withholding oftentimes. They'll withhold love. They will withhold money. They'll make you pay for their things. And in general use you seek out caretaker personality types sure because they're they're arrested development and properly being cared for properly being mirrored and so they're going to pick on the kindest sweetest generous emotionally generous financial Lee Generous Person. They can find why 'cause they're going to get all those goodies from them. They exaggerate suffering and sickness so they play the victim. They might even stage a crisis so that you feel sorry for them because they're pulling on your heart strings. They drained their partner monetarily. They train them emotionally They blame their failures. On other people and circumstances never really owning up and of course they do not know how to self reflect and self crux. So this is the danger of apathy when you have apathy you just don't care and when you don't care you could do whatever you want to anybody because if they're bleeding and you're not oh well they're bleeding and and and they cover up see underneath. All of this is a real fear of being engulfed of losing control of fearing abandonment. But what they will do is they would rather abandon than be abandoned. So they're quick. They're good soldiers. They'll go to you. Know to the front of the line to to to enact their destructiveness before they can be destroyed. So they're they're excellent Psychological warriors if you will so this is a call in show and please. I don't have time for maybe one or two calls. Three two three five two four to five nine nine and I WanNa talk a little bit about Oh we have a call in so hello you are on the couch in your name please. Good evening Dr Beauty. It's Allie. How unveil good how you doing a thank you for all your amazing remarks on facebook and wherever you post really really swirling k? Oh you're welcome. Thank you so much for all that you do and for just shedding light on the subject and the narcissistic the covert narcissist. Revisited is is beckoned me from the shadows I was listening and thought I have to call in because there is a lot to be gleaned in the way of seeking support especially for complex family dynamics with therapists than what have you win. They seem to not even really understand this. And this is especially the case. When someone's not a flagrant narcissist or covert narcissist but have really compelling narcissistic traits. Yes so I just you know it's crazy making and it's one of those things. I just talked to my mom and sister. Today's on feeling kind of like I'm the bad todd. The daughter the bet sister the bat child because yes so much happened that kind of runs counter to my claims and my concern than the very. I guess rich historical narrative of off the things that have happened. I mean the list is so long of accidents. Have you just curious from your point of view? What is your experience with with the covert narcissistic injury That's distinct distinguished from the over which has just plain you know they're just GonNa put you down publicly privately. They're gonNA make you feel less than the conversation will be all about And so we're where do you see the distinction from your experience between the overt and the Kover it very insidious and it's hard to pinpoint hard to put your finger on and it's crazy making the triangulation rush -ment the Kyw knows triangulation for sure on on the sorry said that and The campaigning and how you just can't get in front of it and I feel like my whole family has been turned against me. It's it's really sad however there are no witnesses because he's so wonderful and so nice and her legacy is so rich and so many people think. Oh my God. Your mom is amazing. Thought of the earth and everyone sees it that way and I'm just sitting back looking and shaking my head like you guys have no clue attempt to out her and and probably one. What do you mean? They won't believe you because the bread is buttered probably on her side But we asked what makes it so horrible as what you find your indignantly against an over you could just say how dare you talked to me like that. How dare you okay? But with the covert you know. They've got their stories. All honey you know a needs some money Will why don't you get your money elsewhere? Oh you know that would be difficult if only you can just lend me some money and you know the heart strings are being pulled on and there's a crisis and so the next thing you know is your lending this money or building them up or doing favors for them and paying for their meals and so on and guess what happens you get trained out remember my panel seven which represents paradigm shift instead of synergy in a relationship. You think you have synergy. Because they're so nice but then they will just suck you dry and then they'll leave and not a thought about you of how that made you feel. It's literally they will drop and run and just leave. You go like it's a shocking. That's why people have hard time recovering from this thing because it's just so shocking. How they don't truly bond and if you want to understand why they don't bond is that I'll I'll repeat what one person set to me. It helped me understand when I get close to you. I feel like I lose myself in you. Okay so they never really. Yeah were their idea of intimacy is loss of control loss of power. So they'll be able to objectify and use you and drained from you but they'll never really really put their heart on the line so they always have one foot out so they may be in a relationship and guess what they're doing their online shopping for their next one or they're going back to other relationships to try to keep all of the strings in control and to make sure that they're the center of attention and that everybody is just dying to have him back and that that's the sadness of who get caught in this this web and then they have to extricate themselves said this is a pure repetition principle from childhood because it comes from the blueprint of the unavailable abandoning mother father or the controlling the manipulative. And so this is familiar familiar at familial and but when when you play it out with somebody else it reopens all childhood wounds and it is difficult to recover from this if not more so than recovering from a serious drug addiction because you go from high dopamine level. I Love You. I want you forever and I'm going to be there forever for you to they devalue and drop you and move on and then they stick the the the knife in your heart by telling you how invalid non valuable. You were to them anyway. It's it's it's really something that's why I'm creating this narcissistic abuse Recovery video or putting a lot of attention to and just remember. It's very difficult. Even for people to mitigate their feelings because on the one hand as a as an empathic person you can understand that. They're injured on the other hand. You have the right to be infuriated with this kind of behavior. Well again to that point. It's very difficult to even assert oneself because unlike with my situation with my mom. My mom is the one who always has her credit card out or her checkbook. Yes she wounds and to help. Save the day and so many people have been direct beneficiary Of Her generosity including myself. Yes however what I'm noticing. Is this hallmark signature of under helping? So the help comes in the form of writing a check but it's sticky giving you know the right to write again and but she under helping because it's not really meeting the need. It's almost like if you need boots on the ground and someone in the trenches helping you to figure things out when I talk. I don't know if I wanNA share fully What's going on but I live with a hidden disability and so if being is there's a lot that goes on in making my life work and the thing is I need someone advocate than people in the trenches helping me to figure out like The methodology like okay. The game plan in that kind of thing on my own very difficult to do. Because you won't be there for that but she'll be there to write the check but it's almost like throwing a check to someone who has stage four cancer and they need a really good oncologist and there's a little tease of while. You can't really blame me. I'm doing something Nice but then again not hitting the mark what you really need. Is this this? And that? And sometimes these people will substitute deeds or gifts or promises. Fake promises in exchange for They'll they'll they'll just throw that at you but they can't throw love because they they they don't have a bonding. I know I have one more call in. Take One more call in an alley. I know we will be in touch and thank you this really quickly and I think it was really because family members know about financial help and support. They mistake that for a while. She's helping. What are you complaining about? I know she's done these things and then I'll always say yeah but she didn't do and then they see me as. Oh my God how ungrateful your mother does everything and I mean my deal. So I'd never buy right. There's a driving force of people like yourself to expose the issue. So yes thank you for that and everybody listening. Let's expose the issue and Throw truth light on it. And that's our path that's part of the pathway out of this so thank you. I'll take the next call law to okay. You are on the couch with Dr Judy. And what is your name? Please Dr Judy. Hi. How are you good? Is Doreen Brower? Actually I hope you from Long Island. New York yes. Okay Nice to nice to talk to you again. Yes Hi I'm just calling regarding the topic of couvert narcissism and I was just curious the connection I have a like a hypothesis if you will about a midlife crisis actually the failure of the covert Garces being able to continue their compensation's of their hidden covert narcissism and then all of a sudden it looks like a a midlife crisis but it really was covert narcissism the whole time interesting. I think I can understand what you mean by that. So so the crisis is something that that they enter into as a way to A start looking for more supply because now they're aging you know there's nothing worse than somebody with narcissistic injury who was aging because aging is a drop in supply. And it's not a plus right unless you have right right okay. So what will they do is when they feel the that creeping feeling of of their own lack their own? Shame their own Fierce coming up. Well then they'll act out and then they'll Have Affairs or they all leave the marriage or they'll Start doing liaison relationship off. They take off right and so it's really more about their survival from their point of view. I need to survive. I need to feel good I need to. I love what I'm not in love with you. Feel yeah exactly. So there's no concept of love as an action verb. You don't just say I love you. I love you hit all that battle. Draw some people in like well. He loves me. But where's the actions of somebody loves you? They leave you unless you're a flat-out disaster live with in which case they'll try to help you drop the problem and retain the person and if you end up being a disaster then okay. I get it. People have to move on But short of that The the the UN undefined rule is that we're GONNA be together and if they're issues we're GonNa talk about it and if they're issues through it and we're not going to start looking for somebody else to replace that bond because it's it's really indicative of of how guarded their heart. They have a wall around their heart. That's why we call it the narcissistic defense. It's a hard shell around their heart so they get to use people as objects they don't really bond to the person maybe for a few few minutes they will. They'll feel the love within they'll withdraw themselves because they want to stay on top of the situation and they never go. They don't go full it. They're not you find a connection with some can relate. You know everything you're talking about with a borderline overlap with the covert nurse possibly PTSD. I think that borderline could fluctuate between the the idealize ation there the the structure of the be. Pg core is looser so their defense mechanism SAR all over the place. Very emotionally de dysregulates. The narcissist is a tighter so you would not really know that they're emotionally regulated use. You think that they're you know they're pretty powerful. And in control truth be known by underneath the fear. Abandonment which is why they abandoned. They have shame which is why they demean value and destroy you and they can't commit because they're scared of engulf meant and they're scared of being enmeshed in losing power control has different okay with the border. It's a fear. Fear of abandonment. It's a real fear of abandonment with the border line. And then they'll they'll they'll they'll just regulate when that is triggered and with the with the narcissists on the cover of it is a fear of of being smothered and manipulated and engulfed but underneath all of that. See it's layers. It's it's it's layer so you could peel the onion back for low. It looks like this and now let's peel back. It looks like that and now let's peel back. Ooh Look what it really looks like I on. The bottom line is toxic as toxic young myself. What the label is and no matter right a no matter how much empathy have for people who will demean and devalue and destroy you. You can have empathy or not. It's okay not to because who wants to feel so much for somebody that doesn't feel for you. Bottom line is clean up your own childhood emotions so that you don't get what the Freud did back into horrible patterns. That's the message. So thank you for calling in. I'M GONNA do one shrink that tune. My my usual shouldn't and and Appreciate your question in your call. Thank you. You're very welcome okay. This is a song by and let me see if I can get it here. It is called sick boy by the chain smokers. It's funny. I used to have a stop smoking clinic. Maybe I was drawn by the word chain smokers. I'm from the east side of America where we choose pride over character and we pick sides but this is this is us. I live on the west side of America where they spin lies into fairy dust and we pick sides but this is us. This is us so I guess this is referring to the two sides and the splitting. Don't I don't believe the narcissism whenever when everyone projects it expects you to listen to them meaning that the narcissist is putting the paint on the other. Make no mistake. I live in a prison that I built myself. That's that doubled dungeon of darkness that I refer to. Can't turn to anyone easy to say when you don't take the risk boy welcome to the narcissism. Where were you night? I love this line where we're united in our in different so join the apathy club and I'm from the east side and and then there's the west side. I won't repeat it. I am the I am the sick boy. I am sick boy. They say that I'm sick. Boy they call me sick boy. Well apparently feels pretty sick inside whenever any projects. It expects you to listen to them. Make no mistake. I live in prison and it's my religion. I'm the sick boy. Feed yourself with my life's work. How many likes is my life worth so all these likes and facebook So on you know they just. The dopamine keeps coming and they keep boosting the The the poor self image under neath of it so in summary It's not what it looks like. These people are not filled with self confidence. So they're not wise. They're not filled with knowledge and underneath. All of this is a is sick boy or girl who is Hurting and has walled themselves off from Inter connecting and sharing of themselves and so that's why they're apathetic and they could do what they want because they don't really feel it so thank you. Everyone for listening really really appreciate the calls and the questions. Good night everyone

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