This is back backbackers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are you happy holidays. Happy almost new year. It's almost twenty twenty one new year on the horizon. I think a lot of us are going to be happy to say goodbye to the current year. And you know twenty twenty one It's going to have its own set of challenges. It's going to be something different. It's always something different but I'm looking forward to facing something new. I'm looking forward to seeing what our world is going to look like post pandemic. I'm looking forward to seeing the music. Industry get back on its feet at some point in the future. I'm not saying it's going to happen right away but it is going to happen and as always you know. I'm i'm working to put myself in place of gratitude. There's a lot of things about twenty twenty that That i am grateful for. We had to close out the year with a really special conversation. I think this is an appropriate one for the last episode of twenty twenty. I've got drew on the show. This week drew up until this point had been a duo vince and high and now drew lewis continuing on as the solo project of vince. But i got both of them on the line to talk about their whole career up until this point you know. They just released their matter of perspective anthology album. That's kind of this period on the end of the sentence that has been there joint project for the last five six years and it's a collection not only of their work up until this point but there's also new songs there's new versions of old songs Kind of interesting updates in new takes on some classics. There's and if you know drew. Lou you know one thing that makes the group special is that it is an audio visual collaboration. Vince was always the audio. Hind was the visual component. And in that spirit the matter of perspective anthology they've also created an online interactive art gallery through their discord. And i believe it's also available on youtube right now and it's it's so cool. I've never really seen anything like this. We talk about it in the conversation but it really is a deep dive into the art behind the project as well as narration from vince. About how the songs were made It's just really cool. You gotta go check it out. So there's going to be a link in the description of this episode where you can go grab the matter of perspective anthology. Go visit the virtual museum. They've created and follow drool-o because This is kind of the end of chapter one of drew and chapter two is just about to start next year and you don't want to mess it so go follow them. You can follow me as well. Add willie joy or add back to back pod on all social media. You can email me back to back. Potty gmail.com the email address but Speaking of discord. If you really want to connect the best way to get in touch with me is to come join the back to back discord and not only. Because i'm in there hanging out all the time and you can just come up and make fun of my haircut or you know whatever you're gonna do. I don't know why i'm jumping to the idea that you're just gonna come in and bully me but You know you could if you want. Because that's where i'm at but if you're not a bully if you're just a nice person we'd love to have you in there. It's an amazing community of people. If you're an artist if you're a musician come share what you're working on. Get some feedback. Connect with other like-minded people. Whatever it is it is all good The community's growing every day and we'd love to have you be a part of it so the link for that also in the description but today is all about drew closing out twenty twenty as they are closing out a chapter of their story as artists. It was really really interesting to get to talk to a duo that is in the process of separating You know when a group does part ways. It's pretty rare that they will sit down and still talk about their project talk about their history their future all that and do it together and yeah it was just beautiful conversation. It was unique. I don't think i've ever had an episode like this. Before hein was in vancouver. I believe somewhere in canada. I'm pretty sure it was vancouver Vince was home in the netherlands. And this is what i'm talking about. We would not have been able to do this episode In two thousand nineteen. Because i would not have wanted to do it not in person and i would have missed out on this awesome conversation and i wouldn't have been able to share with you guys so i'm grateful for all of that but even more so i'm grateful for all of you. The listeners out there the amazing community. That's been supporting the show. Not only through this year but all the years that i've been doing this podcast so anytime you tell a friend to check out the show anytime you put a tweet tags your stories. All of that It really does help us grow. It helps new listeners. find the show All of it. That's not only how we stay afloat. But that is how we grow. And we thrive. It's off of the strain of you the listener and look anytime i see us getting tagged anytime. I see people talking about us. Always going to be replying reposting and just generally saying what do you guys. Because i love to meet the listeners of this show and in that spirit. I hope you love this episode. I think you're going to I really did. I really enjoyed this. So let's get into it right now. This is me and drew back to back. Let's lesko have you guys been doing a bunch of a bunch of press and promo jointly sort of four for the matter of perspective fan theology. It has this been sort of a like one last campaign together pretty much. Well how is that been. I mean that's that's just such an interesting time to you. Know to to sort of say you put the the flag in the ground and say okay. This is our last joint project together Collecting all this work that we've done together over the years and then you sort of get this this little victory lap. I mean stuff like this where you know. You've already said it's done like we put it out. This is what it is and you can experience it. How does it feel sort of then. Go on and talk about it and still be connected in that way knowing that eventually you'll end up going on to your your respective networks steps had to me. It's it's exactly what you say is it feels kind of like a victory lab and one where where i think we both Y'all seek back a lot about how it all started and where What happened along the way. And it's it's it's almost some cases in some cases almost therapeutical but like other word. We've also had some interviews where they just pretty much asks about like. Hey algae's means what is the name. Basically basically asking us to oversight are bio but hey the game game so this is a very very Welcomes fresh breeze. It's also nice to just be able to finally talk about it in its entirety. And there's no secrets anymore. Or like he didn't things are stop. We have yet to announce or anything like that sets. Yes somebody's like. I don't wanna call it a post mortem but it's kind of like yeah. It's it's nice to look back on it and it's not like not asking ourselves. Can we talk about that yet. Right exactly yeah. Can we talk about it. And i've talked to other people about this where it's this funny thing a lot of times in in what we do you work for so long on a project whether it's an album or song or video. Whatever it is you put it out. And it's the culmination of all this work. And you know within twenty four hours is all anyone is interested in is also what you doing next. What's after this you know. And it's there's never time to sort of process the accomplishments to process the experiences that you have right and in some ways it must be interesting. It must be an interesting feeling yet is sort of be able to to step off the the hamster wheel for a second and just sort of take stock of everything. Yeah definitely it's We've we've been pushing ourselves Also like as soon as as something was done we were already thinking about the next thing most of the time. And yeah i i personally feel like little weird neither things. I have all this free time. And i don't really know fully wants to do with it yet right. I mean it's it's not like gogo go for like the last five years pretty much. I guess the question is do you guys like it that way. Does that fit with your personalities. Are you the kind of people where the segment something is don you. You're kinda like okay. What's next let's keep this moving or or it does that pace gang zaidi and you would rather you know. Be able to have sort of more of a measured pace of things. I think for me at least a little bit of both Definitely like the grind of it Most of the time. But yet there's there's been moments when his Aiming towards that we were both just released hired of those older traveling and ben That was the deadline angles of a new team was coming out or something and yet those moments were were little software that you can say. I regret you the same question to you. Man you know in those last five years this project. How does your brain process this kind of a an experience a career. Are you the kind of person who always needs a project to be working on. You need to know the next thing or is it. Nice to to have a little downtime now and then i. i don't know. I feel like i'm super schizophrenic. When it comes to that. Like i some. Whenever i'm in the middle of a project i always think like men after dissension some some time off and then when it gets the point where i could take time off. My mind is like no. You need to keep working where needs to be done but then the question because i have that too and i if i sit for too long i just get jumpy and anxious and and it's not great for me but then i i just i always wonder like. Is that something. That's just been programmed into me because that's you know everyone in the music world. Everyone whether they are not just from social media looking at what everyone's doing it seems like everybody's busy all the time right. Everybody's killing it one hundred percent of the time. Everybody's working their hardest and i think that builds in this expectation of pressure and i don't know i don't know where i fall on. Sometimes i think that's probably healthy healthy competition but then other times i think you know. Why are we all forcing ourselves to be miserable. A lot of the time. Yeah yeah definitely. I fully agree data. Actually it's also interesting to to see how The whole music industry has has grown into something that is so much about like showing signs of life constantly like every of posting. As much as you can also stuff outside of what you actually make in the more better. And i personally sometimes wonder if that is even beneficial to do what it is that the person maze. Yeah it's it's inter-. I remember like when we first started doing the project and kind of like. We're conditions to this thing where we had to just released one song every month I often kinda like look back on that and said cost you know what what changing the in the lake. Music industry has has caused for disting- where artists link. Especially if you're new release one song a month and the is crazy crunch on all the stuff that you need to do and yeah often also questioned. Does that take away from actually making something good in being so active on twitter or instagram. Or whatever like we didn't sign up social media we didn't sign up to be social media influencers. We're here to make stuff and shields accent diamonds. Super country do it. Yes i completely agree with that and especially for a project like what you guys do. Where there is you know. It's it's beyond music right. There's this strong visual component. There's sort of an all encompassing project that you can interact with on multiple levels and and even with all of that. They're still this expectation that no also we need to know about you. Know what you're eating for breakfast and and it is it. I don't know it's just such an odd thing. I don't know why i've been thinking about that lately. Got a more about it. The more on imagine if like isn't the time that frizzes jimi hendrix was alive than disagreements I really wonder what the were linked to the music world would look like in one. It's much harder. To have those towering figures like jimi hendrix in the social media edge right. Because there's something using him in his example you know. He's this sort of mysterious unknowable figure. And you cannot translate into a social media persona. I think that yeah. Yeah because he's the larger than life. And if you're just putting your day to day life out there. I think that's an impossible thing to achieve. I mean there's there's examples like You know someone like rl. grime. I mean he. He doesn't post anything the only time he posed is when he puts out something new basically and he's able to make that work she's be one of the rare i think that's also maybe like Not necessarily like a generational thing but like he. He was already big before the whole edm artists slash influence. Her game started. You know. I think the same would like justice for example are just awful time like those guys are completely off the grid when it comes to social media but such larger than life projects seemed like our grind. But i think that's just like they got to that point or instagram became so important. And i think if you get to that point if yes you got the That point in time dentist. It's not really needed to you. Know i post what you're eating breakfast. Yeah i think it would even be counter effective because that's not how you got known day got known and they would always take away from from what they've built up. I think yeah. I think that's true and i. It makes me wonder about about you guys when you first started off. You know you are in the wake of the edm. And i think because people like to try to categorize things you know a lot of people initially you know group do you in with With trap music or with bass music but then it sort of over. The years became apparent that you know you had aspirations. Well beyond that. And i'm curious you know for you guys. What was the experience like of of really trying to define your own sound define your own identity and carve that path especially at the start when people kinda just wanna put you into one group or another interesting. Yeah definitely. I think one thing that's always kind of from even apparent just with the whole akiem and especially like on the idiom inveighs. Music is that. I felt like we've always been much wrist into that environment because we've never actually like lifted ourselves. I think are like. Edm boom was more like old school. Depth step german-based in in in the badlands We didn't even live like that. That big no no. We didn't go through. That many clubs shows we didn't We were part of any social Environment where a lot of other people were also listening to that kind of music was just where where does the thought to even start the project. Come from then. If you're not sort of you know if you're not going out to the clubs every night or you're not sort of really immersed in that scene from the start you know. How do you come to that music. How do you. How do you land on that idea. Mr karma mr promise was the biggest reason that we decided like. Hey this this thing this weird eight away. A bob kind of beans stuff is actually pretty cool and stupid in a good way to destroy. Yeah yeah we just decided like. Hey let's see if we can get close to that sound released trial. Would what our version with light or sound like and just see happens when it was the big joke in the beginning. Which was i think. It was taken out by mr carmen. Gives you. Yeah check it up. Kick you such. I mean to us. It's such a classic. Oh yeah no. That's that's an amazing. I mean karnak. I think not that. He's under appreciated by. I think he is. He's more influential than a lot of people know especially in the artist community and he has carved out this real unique patented himself from what he's doing. These days is very inspiring disease. Well we so brass band and all that stuff is rate Man did you see. Did you get to catch any of those shows. He was doing with the full band. Mostly they were wild. May i got one of them and yeah it was. It was really interesting. I mean it was. It really just felt light. You are watching a a funk band. I it was like it was very it. Felt very separate from what he is known for which was really interesting. Because it's still the same crowd coming to see him. Does we an interesting experience seeing it like the same trap crowd come to a show like that must be an interesting juxtaposition. What was it. Yeah put the track. Private salve also evolving sensitive. These these kids who may be saw it as a joke Five years ago grew up with his wealth but still love the sound and and and so. I think that there is so much like like a like someone like jd. Back this drummer It's not really travel or anything that related. But i do think that a lot of Jazz influences get back into Trap and you. Bob and stuff and i love it. I don't really know where was go this. No that's all right. I mean. I can connect it back because the car show he. He was basically doing two shows a night so he do this show with the band and then he do a dj set after that so one two in a row. He was opening for himself. Basically and and it was really interesting because the same crowd the whole time everybody stays in the building and It to me. It sort of made the dj more meaningful. Because then you sort of see what's influencing it you know and it's And the crowd was cool. I don't think everyone knew what to make of the live band show but i think everybody enjoyed it. I mean even for you guys. You're live show has certainly evolved over the years. I mean talk a little bit about that. And and wanting to the idea of you know wanting to expand what you do give people different experiences you push your own boundaries while still connecting to whatever it was that people found about you appealed about you in the first place. Yeah it was. It was definitely the the reason for that was a combination of that. We wanted to show something. That was more interesting than Yeah just wishing some on a cbj and jumping around a little bit which is cool. You can make great party by doing that but also yeah we ourselves. Were got a little bored by that Also because For a long time the the sets were were pretty much the same because of the visual aspect of the new. There was on supposed to together ride so you can't deviate too much because you've set up this whole exactly. Yeah this whole choreographs thing none. If you do that like thirty times in a month that it just becomes kind of boring right right. Yeah no matter how much thought you put into it at the start yeah and it was also before we started using semsi technologies have a little bit more flexible so as well for the people who don't know talk a little bit about that. What is that technology. What did that allow you to do. So it's basically and i might actually be very wrong nation. Bear with me It's kind of an audio signal that is only like readable for computer and is linked to attract or to an idea or a track and then track down the is the bridge between track and the visual software for right. It's it's kind of like dj ing with a but the videos pretty. Yeah exactly yeah and before that. Yeah we just build it all out Everything and the visuals said was was more like a movie that just played alongside and at the start. Hi newer for years. You are touring as well or an handling all the visual aspects. Yeah i was handling all the vigil visual aspects like vincent. You didn't have stamped anything. Fancy back then so at my laptop in a little launch pat on to kind of correct the temple of the of the video if we count the leg of the last well that was prime point of our soundcheck doing the lag at the input lag. Compensation really funny. Which would yet it super jerry rig but it was. It was fun and i did a little bit of dj to Yeah we fun. But i think maybe going into like maybe your next question. Why why did i stop doing that. I think we kind of from that ledge. Vince wanted to do more exciting stuff on stage. I wanted to kind of take a step back in and have more macro image of what the show was going to be like united states. That just really works well together with me. Not being onstage sir. Yeah i mean for you. It's an interesting question. Right of like who. What what roles we end up wanting to fill and being comfortable in for you. Did you like being on stage or did it did not really make a difference to you. It was it was definitely fun. I mean like a there's some sort of adrenaline rush. Of course that comes being on stage and it was. That was cool. But if i like to look into baron thought about like hey where do want to still be on stage in five than iraq but yeah it was. It was a cool like teenage dream. You know to be a touring dj or a bit. But i think. I checked that box and it was kind of time to move on what sure that makes total sense. I mean it's. I've always liked the way you guys presented the project right because it was always presented as this this mesh of audio and visual experience everything sort of on the same level presented in the same way to make this sort of bigger world. Which i'm curious. I guess how you came to that at the start and how you decided to present it that way because there's plenty of Visual artists who have interesting sounds behind what they do. And there's plenty of of deejays and producers who have interesting visuals behind what they do. But i think it's very rarely presented as this sort of fifty fifty collaboration. You know put all of this together and it becomes bigger than just. It's parts kind of idea to that. I don't really know it's a good question. I mean like we. We started the project together even with three people back in the day. Get yours and this was at school when it started yet an art school and i yours like very early on figured out like hey this is not my latch calling i. I better stick to directing. He's phenomenal actor. And is that what he was doing for the project at the star. Yeah yeah and yet as also yeah like we were. We didn't have enough money to make actual big budget video clip so his role in that time as well was more on the sidelines than more hypothetical one for two futures while so that's also why he wanted to actually focus on doing the stuff that he was. Yeah because yours live together in vince over their house quite a bit and i think we started june like my final year of college. Same reorientation. I dropped right. I was already drugged out. Yes you dropped out that year or something like that of that. That probably that year i can make and i think as well to the point where we weren't like i graduated than yours graduated. I think it was kind of like a turning point for us. It's like well damn we now go to like find a job like will this surprise as a job for now and i think it was kind of hard for yours to justify for himself this hypothetic- in a couple of years might be something that could actually functions of job but maybe not directly Did it function as that for you. Guys how how is that at the start. Because i mean you know everybody starts somewhere. You gotta build it up if you're just getting out of school typically traditionally. That's a time when people don't have a ton of money you know. How did you make it work for those first couple of years. I had a job in aside side. i think you also it's a yeah i mean i. I used to just freelance for a bunch of his high studios. And that's what i. That's what i kinda dated in beginning work for we somewhere else in the network on the project for two weeks in work for weekend someplace else. You know we yeah. We basically just against verbally decided like. Hey we're gonna do this no matter. What if you have to do something else aside. Then that's fine for now What was your side job vince. I pushed We believe wheelchairs around from one location in a building so the other in a rehabilitation center as zone. I help them from there Living enslaving orders to places where they did their armies and they're all that kind of stuff and it was actually great because i got a lot of Interesting conversations out of as well and both low about life And they opened up to me interesting way. Because i wasn't a nurse. I wasn't a therapist. And i wasn't wasn't anything so There was no reason for them to hold the bag or be anxious about my response or anything so it was actually a great inspiring times. Well the and i got super superglued physique president because i was walking the whole day best is this man was getting steps in how did you. How did you land on that job. That seems such a random job center. Yes sure sure like a center. Yeah yeah. I guess that's interesting. I mean and you know. I think to tie it back into your guys project. I mean it is a very conceptual project. The you're talking about getting inspiration from talking to older people about life and that sort of thing and it makes me curious you know in the like audio visual collaboration. That is your guys project. Where does where does this song start. How does how does it new creation star does it start from an idea some inspiration from a conversation you had. Does it start from july idea that that you have high new is. Is there a typical way. Assam takes form. Most of inside is I work on a On on the idea musically that stems more from feeling and there's no concept attached to it whatsoever and most of the time halfway through when we decide yet. This could be intrigued that we want to finish and release that we start thinking about. What could the concept around this ceiling me so We'll start brainstorming and thinking Amplify those elements that are more storytelling within the music. But also also forcing the individual representation of it and that were like a same angle. Trans elvin stories as well as possible. It makes me wonder because. I think that's something you guys achieve very well and i think that's one of the reasons people are so drawn to what you do. But there's always this this weird thing. I talked about this a lot on this show. Where i i like to over. think things. And i like to analyze philosophize and apply that to what we do to music into art but then the best music and art is always the simplest in the purest right. And is that something you've struggled with or something you've sort of figured out any hacks for of how to only as well over thinking it who yeah. That's that is a paradox. in itself it has been a struggle from time to time. Definitely there. was this one period more than beginning. Bolger i think around the time that created a fumble josh. I made a lot of songs. Surrounded signed words way too complex. In wade's fool. And then i. I tried to the remind myself holocene. All trek legs easy was which i don't even remember making. Actually it was like done so quickly but that that was also for me. Where like a little bit of that. Magic was always tried to Find vats of making something so simple but still so Do tend to work quickly once you get started. Really reading the pens I work a lot in game phases so In the sense that i have. I'm brought now in a face that i don't make any music old since i've finished the of using her and before that i worked in a way that i use my notebook olds my my. I wrote down every single. Little thing. Anna phase before that by just created as many work in progress as good I always loved to try and find different ways to start music because it keeps me keeps fresh. Keeps me on my toes But there isn't. I haven't found a way of making news against that. He's actually is my way his sure. I mean it's interesting. You say you don't even remember making z. Which you know. I think a lot of people would look at his sort of your breakout track right. The track was the first thing people heard from you a lot of cases and may i mean maybe that's the secret is just some being able to put yourself so in the moment that when you're finished you sort of don't realize what just happened right. I think so. I think so. It is yeah never been able to do that since though maybe with one point again hissar about you on the visual side of things do you approach it. Do you think about the same way. Gag. kinda i think maybe into the comeback eliminating interesting where it's like then says like seized genius. Something that doesn't even remember making any more and i think that's maybe like the best form of creation where it just goes you so in a moment and it goes so fast but acting kind of like maybe kind bagging to the beginning of our conversation. Dot dot rare moment is something. That's so hard to fabricate that but you still have to do a release every month that i think that exactly exactly. Yeah that that. I think at some point you kind of start learning how to maybe forced that massaged at inspiration in the into something. You know And i think that's kind of like what i've trying to figure out there trying to figure out for myself. There's he survived. That i've made in thirty minutes of consumer you for example. I was doing minutes super simplistic at work. That's great you know the one of my favorites. Yeah it's just a it was being bombed bouma done on. But there's other pieces like i think for on like i can't wait. I've worked on like every day. And still when i look at it and say cats but i think i i think i could do more but the question is like do i have to do more argued Last making make it better. That data does. That's something that. I've been like struggling with in my head that duality between like do i. I think would in art. It's like you either rely on presentation or rely on fundamental. it's sometimes hard to rely on both the presentation and defensive end fundamentals and kind of finding that balance is tricky. But that's something that. I'm trying to work towards. I mean that's interesting right because especially at this point you know you're you're professionals quote unquote and you. You can rely on a certain skill level that you know you have in your back pocket. But that doesn't necessarily mean every time you sit down you're gonna be really inspired and know exactly what you wanna do and so the. Yeah it's it's such an interesting thing. Is i think everybody at every level still hits this where you can. You can know that you are an excellent artist and you can still sit down and make something terrible. Yes yes which has happened area often. If only people heard the stuff that we make not release the amount of the amount of i dunno files have on. My computer is insane. Well that's the thing write is there's this myth of these i mean even take it back to jimi hendrix i'm sure jimi hendrix had some terrible recordings that he would never want people to hear. There's this myth of this sort of you know the the Genius artist this Know whatever you wanna call it. The i don't really think exists. I mean there's definitely people who i've seen work and i say wow. I don't know how they did that. Or wow that's really impressive but at the end of the day i don't know i i still think it's just hard work instead of putting the time in at the end of the day i i do think there's definitely people that like train themselves very much to be as consistent as possible. Yeah insistent is a great way to put it. 'cause like i was watching a bunch of fingers and definitely gonna Mark i think. Oh yeah oh yeah. Yeah i may yet but that ridiculous literally you walk into the room. Grabs grabs a piano treads. Yeah every time. Yeah but. I think he's very i mean i. I found out that he does all these shows. Pretty much free which i think. He's just trying himself very much to be consistent as possible through also the. It's a similar like of freestyle rappers. Right away at some point have such a big for cab. Ury in bruel said that they can big from in their own mind. They just instantly of all these bits of of of a couple of bars right annexing for for guy like mark You come train themselves in a way that he has oldies like tricks and small things to keep the crowd invested in. Because he like. I've i've watched a whole jovian vegetating. Amsterdam yes yeah. Yeah yeah it's it's so good. It's it's amazing because he's not making music mold time he is. He is engaging with people like out of a conversation. A new thing strauss and it flows so organically that it has allowed from some sort of preconceived rules said that he has created by just an awful lot. That's amazing and also in the sense from the genius. I think no there might not be something like a genius but i do think that what we're talking about earlier how if you're like super in omen interesting tune with choices and and why you want to make the choices in our sensory of sense that that might be a genius inside of us because if if like that here now feeling maybe yeah. Yeah i mean maybe that. Maybe you're right. Maybe the genius part of it is being able to kind of like what hind said Being able to just more quickly put yourself in that open pure space and being open to whatever comes. It's not necessarily that. Your brain is working so hard you have such a giant brand that you can just create these things. no one else could think of. But it's that you're able to. It's almost the opposite. It's almost like you're able to turn your brain off faster than other people true. Oh yoda was his great quote from This book the the war of rs. Yeah someone got asked the question. when does do you like were inspired. Yes windows inspiration. Mostly maju every morning at nine nine. Am like that. That sense of just couldn't yourself doing additioning yourself. I mean yeah. Yeah and i mean you guys have both referenced you know that sort of one track a month mentality that you know you have to be on a you have to creativity on a schedule to a certain extent especially at the start to just sort of get out there and get your name none. Would you know in those early years like you put out. Z z and people. Start paying more attention to what you're doing over time you start You know playing some shows you put out some more music's more people see it. What what did that early time feel like. Did it feel like it was sort of an explosion and all the sudden. You're doing all these things you never imagined or was it. Did it feel more of kind of a slow burn that it was just another brick on top of another brick. Absolutely more leanings. Awards an explosion. At least one definitely. I think like wednesdays feed came out it was a relief for bid for the first one being make my day than ever even landed on on black. Dsp's or anything like that because it had a sample in cooled enough to release back in the day and yes easy came out odyssey. We didn't really know what to expect. And all of a sudden we got a text message from a mutual friend of us. Hey guys are viral. Top fifty at number five nuts. We were guesting. Viral top tasty is. What does that what happened now. Yeah yeah what does it. What does that mean like next. We know we got like all of these calls bunch of major labels in the netherlands. Bike name sign you guys for whatever the truck and that was a whole interesting. He'll i guess 'cause we took a bunch of meetings didn't have manage. I can like back then. So we didn't renew jackson about the music industry dealing with with a major label. I won't say big where dealing with a lot of interest for multiple major labels when you have no management that is a that is a crazy thing to think of that. Yeah and it's like back then it just constantly Wanted to sign us. Release easy with on it. That's kind of where every conversation anchor back back in the day where it's such a wanted. This thing that you guys did. That was organically successful than in jackson. Major label juice at that. Yeah yeah but it was. It was in the ad not bad While it was the weird of course but we weren't overwhelmed account right. Yeah yeah because we very much cabinet in mind that these like there were so many parties that like showed interest at once We fought again. That's just snippy. How was most wing. We don't have nothing to lose. We have all the time in the world. And i'm very glad that we didn't jump on anything sales in too much about it. I think that's also mainly because this whole project. Yeah what have we done. Type thing wasn't likely both had like the inspiration at like five years on. Wanna be a to entrap artists ever Yeah it was just something that happened in despair about ranting had the luck of being able to kind of see it from a mixed view and yeah interesting right that you may be because of sort of your the way you came together in the way you've founded the project the what you wanted out of it that you are maybe a little more immune to some of the things people could dangle in front of your face red because i think the major label deal there dangling that of you know being famous whatever artists they can turn you into x. person but if that was never your goal from the start that's that is kind of a lucky thing i guess i i don't wanna put words in your guy's house either. I mean when when you started it if that wasn't your goal. What was the goal. Great stuff that we thought ourselves. That was cool. I guess yeah if other people will go on to it that would be an added benefit. And that's actually still the mentality that we do everything with. That's that's great. And it's i think extremely lucky and just awesome that you are able to have that from the start because i think again you know no management major labels after that for a lot of artists. I think a dangerous position. Because you know you just wanna be for a lot of people you just want to be out of the struggle know all of us struggled at the start and the appeal of just not having to struggle for a little while seems great. Read at the start. Yes and you don't necessarily care how you get there at least or you don't even know you should care about that at the start of the struggling itself got more. It was later down the line actually than It will something bad. We were introduced with right away because before we started drew to struggle was mainly like how we finishing our schools. And how How do we live by ourselves in a house that has been. That's more barriers teaser. Day you'd have to be random oldest. Yeah so it wasn't even that these were problems. That were on our radar yet. I i think today much like why when everything was going to shows a ticket tours and stuff like that and shin crew. All of that. We couldn't really the number bruegel mentality just yet. You know paying rent paint groceries nasty. Now there are other people that need to get paid and production of you to get paid for and everything like that and i think that's kind of when the whole business thing hit us like a ton of bricks like. Hey this is running a business wise. Yeah we're running business now and cut the whole bunch of taxes and stuff like that in nike the insurance and all that all of those things I think that yeah. That was. That was kind of like when the win. Two guys that were just making music and art form or fund kind of transformed into a case shit running business that yeah and i have to imagine to. You also have to let people in on on the gang right like you have to let people into your circle which probably i have to assume. Felt weird if you know you. The collaboration what's special about is sort of what you guys are creating together these shared ideals and then all of a sudden. It's almost like you're being forced to include more people in that circle just because of how big it's gotten with. Was that sort of difficult to to let more people in to let other ideas then was definitely a difficult Delegate anything that was more creative which we all. Yeah we didn't do that often as well actually But we down the line. We got more interested in how we can be creative around the whole marketing conveyance That we do like the aren't works in the music And that was sometimes a little bit of a well. No not one not even actually did. The the team has been like really supportive in everything creatively. But it was it. We had more to communicate and therefore there had more. It was more that needed to be translated from our minds to other people and that the only thing that it was a little tired exhausting is not even is too much of a word of it but the ants definitely. It's definitely a skill man by now. Just delegating stuff especially creative or just communicating to multiple people who are gonna take care of some execution things on on that creative idea is it's a skill. It's a skill to communicate. Yeah i think that's absolutely right. And i mean maybe that's a good way to talk about The a matter of perspective and the project sort of culmination of all this. The i don't know what you guys you know. It's an anthology of work that you've done. There's also new material there's These re imaginings of old songs and there's this whole Museum this visual museum. That people can experience. I mean i for the people who don't know what i'm talking about it. Maybe just briefly if you wanna talk about what that is what the project is what. The museum is all about how people can check it out. We should probably we should probably mention that true true. Do you want me to talk a little bit about the museum or do you want to you. Can you can start cool. yes so we. We decided to do this. Virtual machine gun. Think like three to four physical or galleries surrounding. Ap's before of course twenty. Twenty sox can't do person anymore so that kind of a kind of the idea of like. Hey can we. Maybe this experience and applied and put it in a digital medium And we ended up going with gun with discord in creating this like audiovisual exchange. Where you're walking through this museum with the lovely narration. Vince telling you what the with the ideas behind the songs wherein and and of giving you a new perspective on on the bricks. I'm now on our discord. Most likely future will be as well numb because unfortunately just like our previous show. Our old shows this diver. Everything is super jerry rig. We we pretty much every morning after restart all of the all of the streams and and do everything and running off a computer. That's in the office at bitburg. We're not physically there. I mean. I'm in vancouver. Insulate call people at six in the morning. Joe are you at the office. You go to street now. The video in walk walk through it. That's actually makes me happy because that's sort of that. Sounds like where it all started right like. That's some art. School shit is true is just taking on an idea. That's maybe just a little bit too big and figuring out how to make it work. I mean that's very charming. But i think that's maybe a perfect way to to present the project right. Yeah def definitely like we had talks with discord woodley conceived the idea. They were super now no question. Unfortunately the technology that we were asking really in the pipeline yet There were we call the like. How can we just jerry rigged kind of person out of work. But i mean it's working for king man. I checked it out. Yeah can still run experiments. You gotta call somebody. Real quick can't is still alive. Nice it's it's it's a really interesting idea and something. I had never seen before which i think is that just being able to say that is so rare in what we do because i feel like most most ideas that we see even if somebody does something really cool or an interesting way it stephen evolution of of an idea. You've seen before and this. I didn't really have a of references for this. It was i think also We were pretty Say that taken aback by this idea as well a little bit at some point but it was it was really fun suits who come up with ideas like this with the concept of mattering speckles in mind because that opens so many different doors that It's something we just gave. Why don't we try. This is weird weird thing and and also in that perspective. We thought that it would be great to see if we can add another like fully different perspectives to the work Here in informed these little stories that are not even not even the concepts of the music in the art or sells more derived astronomy. And it's a different versions of translations of the same story in the end. Yeah that's that's useful to read. I mean that makes me think about sort of know. It's like liner notes. Or something where. It's it's not you know when i say the word museum. It's not like you're going there and it's just you reciting this song and this is what it means but it's made and right exactly. Yeah but it's it's context and it's it's a bigger world right and and just more a deeper experience for people. And i think that's really interesting. You mentioned You know bit birds and obviously you guys have have worked closely with them throughout the years and my understanding is that son hollow Was an early Influence early important person in your career. How did you guys meet up originally how did you. How'd you all link up and become aware of each other. So really funny. Star is a religious story. Yeah i think. I think it started with Vince did by somebody for a that person thought that he had a studio but yeah instill a run the okay i got hit up by an ex classmate of mine who said like hey i got asked to do this Studio session with his rapper. From switzerland and he wasn't going to make it. This was actually giro's vandal. Now yeah yeah that's crazy. He's amazing. he is amazing. He's really though. But yeah if me that opportunity Solely because he wasn't able make it. So then i win and i made an instagram video. That studio and then another guy on facebook days later. Hit me up was like yo. You have a studio. And this was a andy from moscow. I said i told him no. That wasn't my studio. But i do Study at the school where can rent studios. So maybe we can go there and and do your session. And i can just sit in the back so we did and in that studio session. It was lost code. Together with damian and damian show my music music what we had to that point. I think it was our zoo could be. I could be a stake. So yeah and then. I showed them. And then damian reposted our zoo on his soundcloud For while the kohner big bird found that showed it on hollow and zone. Low reached out on us to us on twitter. It was really funny. Is a song followed us and like this was told this story to a couple of people in like that. That's crazy or whatever 'cause we on followed as we didn't know who he was at. The related is doing dutch as fifty k. Follows sick people are always. That's crazy but it's like it's five years ago stuff son has grown multitudes would in five years Who back then. It wasn't really wasn't like diplomat reached out to us so the the it makes sense but yeah he did he. You follow us on twitter. And then he. He does Or southbound or something on the we met up with sawn or in budi who was san's manager at the time and later became our manager too. I think during amsterdam dance event at a yellow claw show. I think we're saw for yellow claw like amsterdam z. To really tiny loved like no green room or whatever so the only dipoto kind of blake secluded area slash quieter area. We get was slow the smoking area of the clock. And that's where we met sonnen tore and budi for the first time so we're still like screaming at each other because it was still hard to hear and Yeah it was. It was a great experience. I just love the idea of you know because from that point where everyone still like you said. San wasn't who he is now in his music. Didn't sound like what it sounds like now and the same could be said about your under the does the idea of all of you guys meeting over the blaring like soundtrack of yellow claw like going on this whole wholesome interaction as the yeah initiated from a landing over yellow motherfucking. That's so good. Shit what was i. Oh i know what i was gonna say. That's a much more interesting story than you know. Sort of what. I how my brain works because in my brand is just like oh. They're dutch all the dutch artist. They all know each other. You know must have just been that kind of thing. Because i think from an american perspective of especially a nerdy american like myself. Who really thinks about this sort of thing. There's i don't know if if this is true you tell me what you think but it seems like dutch people and electronic music. There's this weird you. i'm not saying you guys are necessarily just across the board better added but it's like it comes more naturally. There's this weird intuitive thing this spin that dutch people to just be able to put on it but And it's not you know from from anything from what you do to what saen does to you know super emmy people you know. Tesol whoever it's it's all across the map like i. I asked laidback luke. The same question and he was like i don't know but it is it. Is it something you've thought about or something you would have experienced yourself now. I actually thought about this. very recently. Yeah mean that's like we had an interview like last week or something like that. We kind of talked about it. My perspective on it is kind of like. I think the netherlands and electronic music. It's been very much embedded in in in the culture I think when both me and vince criminal chester was in his prime time in the netherlands. At least like to do like a national icon. If the netherlands went like night people for cultural achievements they definitely united chest. Okay back then and made it yet. I think it really simple for kids. Like uh uh-huh to be interested in music and floor gets to be like. Yeah i wanna be a dj handout would be like oh six. Wanna be like cesco. That's yeah yeah exactly. I i thought about this later to derive from that conversation that we had back then. I was wondering what is like like traditional dutch like music culture and there is not that much of a there is. There is some definitely but it's mostly like a carnival music which is very very heavy on accounts exit going on. I know what. I mean. Like how i do i do yes. Yeah and when you look into like the early stuff from just oh translator used to me. It's kind of. There are similarities there and i think that in the sense the dutch using Bischel dutch using styles didn't get that much attention. Because of how divided in culture like the above the river's and below two rivers are where below overstating they celebrate carnival every year like goldman hardcore hardcore and above above the rivers. They kind of push that all away. And as the beds trouble cuddly because of the different religions is gonzalez's and The the new store sober reformed versions of christianity. Bed were more as being above the river's. That's maybe dad gave this urge of trying them for like bush away. Everything did was traditional and really embracing the the the more progressive stuff and also look at the technology with Yeah dr seuss will soon be very beat. Cigna logical country. Of course so. I don't know it was thought it's maybe it's not even true but not that's interesting. I mean where you it makes me wonder were are either. You guys. Religious spirituality play a role in creativity for either of you in any way i personally. I have been baptized. But i've never. I've not really been Year really raised religiously. But i've always i think i'm more of a agnostics nas are there must be something and i actually a lot of comfort and also Or at least motivation from from the idea that there might be something bigger than myself but in more than that and not so much. It's not an active active thing. That i go braiding their creative person. How are you hiring me. Neither i mean i i in the netherlands. You have the staying with Like a baptized name. Basically like your parents have have a normal name for you which hainan mike but then they give you your official church names or whatever because you're almost While it's like yeah. They just grabbed lunch. Saints tro together into one day. And so i do have that but i think that's because my dad's side of the family was very religious Where my mom definitely has. Religious farwell thinks she didn't get baptized that that's kind of delaying goes benevolence everybody prior to our generation's. Just you get baptized. You hear commu community against union. Yeah yeah communion communion and everything. But i personally am not really that religion site mark with the idea that there might be something but some days. I'm like candy some days ago. But you know like the there is a recent But i don't necessarily really involves spirituality creativity that much but i do have to say i can't get very inspired religious pieces of art but maybe that's all such as beacons religions on such dominion on culture and but but yet i mean you know there is something really cool about a big giant crossing a beautiful catholic church which is really cool Visual signifier of that are are really cool. And the don answers the question absolutely. Yeah i mean the same thing for for music too. Right i mean. The religion had a stranglehold on art and on music for so so big of a part of human history right like the church had like all the bangers for hundred took all the second copy strike everyone did eighteen hundreds version of a dmca thing. Just a beheading. I asked inquisition. I guess down right now instead of ghosts producers. You're a heretic. Oh man but yeah mean. I'm the same as you guys. More or less i replace replaced. Baptism with circumcision. And that's about where i'm with. It is like after that blast. Yeah you know. i'm. I'm jewish but not really particularly and And it's an interesting thing. Because i take kind of like you said i take inspiration from the history of it. I mean certainly the people who came before me and the absolutely the art and the music and all that they created but to me. As i get older i think i flipped it in two. Instead of taking inspiration from spirituality. I think for me. i'd figured out. Creating is sort of my spirituality. And it's the only time where i really feel connected to whatever is bigger than me yet ever that is and you know i don't. I'll probably never know what that actually is. But it's something. I've become more comfortable with over the years. Because when i was younger i would. I was just more sceptical and less open. And just be like. That's all bullshit. Now i fully agree. I think it's maybe even the that they've never had been made something that you really. Whoa how did. I even make this. Oh yeah like that wonder of would the actual hell right or or like seeing something else that that surfaced stories so coherently religion is is the has the best visual storytelling out there. I think At least When looking like yesterday yeah. It's amazing. So i definitely can see what be that was another part of it too. I don't know why. I'm just like hayden old religion but it's like they. They also had all the money right so they could just hire the best artists and they you know they were the major label. Baker collect remarkable. Now you have capital atlantic back. Then you had christianity. Judaism islam islam. Islam controlled the whole middle east. Buddhism was a little bit more indie. And how was dislike southeast asian underground. They weren't concerned about making money. That were just. That's so funny. Imagined no way. What were you gonna say. Imagine having ticked off. But you know talking about about cultural differences. What was it like for you guys when you first started. Getting out of the netherlands and touring you. Know particularly the us Did that change your worldview. Did it change anything about the way you wrote music or thought about the presentation of your art for me. Definitely for me was Quite the culture shock to to be in america first because it was. I used to watch a lotta movies when i was younger. And most of these movies were american movies so to see these places and the sexually beating these phrases and see how experienced how different they feel than when you when i was looking at the movies that or trade them brought this whole new context to how flexible reality is If that makes sense. Because i'm sitting here in the netherlands in dark now over here and and go through lane and you end up in a different time zone and see like interact with people. Who have we realized. Seven total different background than where where you came from. It felt like a whole new reality. That definitely was inspired me to create Or come up with different concepts or stories as well. What was your idea of the us before you got there you like. What movies are we talking about. Who wants so many different movies. I think it was pretty idolized. Because of the movie was a definitely address. This big beautiful world merica where everything is happening and not not. That much seems to be wrong. Although you there also he's louise that. Were portraying less I i know what you mean though. It's the idea of the american dream riot. Is the you know you might be hard but you can make it and it's you know it's bigger and brighter than anything you've seen before Definitely definitely is bigger and brighter than than a lot of things. Just just cheer amplitude. That is definitely true. Yeah we know how to crank the volume here. Yeah that's i think. I think i think maybe that was one of my realizations america. In america things can go to eleven point. Was that you know talking about that. Idea was the people is it. The culture did it i mean. Do you notice a strong difference talking to you. Know somebody in the netherlands versus talking to somebody in the us. Yeah definitely Dutch people are way way way way more reserved than way more at least in some parts with a mentality. Like if i don't know you then. I don't really care and you have to do something really. Cool it from my perspective for your doing center. You just terrible but then again When we were in la for the first time for instance we noticed that like the total opposite of that coin. Wear it almost fall like to socially agnes. Yeah the air bust at up. Yeah and and ended turtles steer anymore. Sincerety got lost because of bad And that was a very interesting to feel for the first time to. Yeah i mean l. a famously insincere town now maybe more than anywhere else. I think. I think that's also something that's just very present in like playing show in la for him. feels in the netherlands in most of europe. Like you rich. It doesn't matter that you're up on that stage. You still approve. Yeah to all the people in the crowd that you're worth worth being there but what exactly once you get it then you really you know Which i think is something that we've noticed. I mean being dutch play a year every year. Like that's that's the comes with the territory and Yeah which eighty time. It's a big survival week but Yeah i think that's similar to for anyone who doesn't adm it's like you know Miami music weaker or south by south is something like that and yet i think every year we played it we won over the crowd a little bit more and then when we did our first number hampshire that was most energetic Shows that we've ever ever done because it felt like we really you know burnt as he shares earned it and we want these people over to to really really connect with us where sometimes shields in america. I don't care as long as you play a cor- yeah that's really funny. Well i mean in in america to. It's just it's so big and especially in the major cities. There's so many things all happening on top of each other and so i think it can. It can go both ways. It could either be. There's less pressure to sort of feel like this has to be the perfect thing the perfect presentation because you know the la keeps moving right so you know you go to la you put on a good show you keep moving but then also it can feel overwhelming in the sense of well. There's so much noise to cut through this noise. How do i stand out. Did you feel like was it hard to break into the. Us was that it or did that. Come with the territory. Once you started touring. I didn't really experienced as hard to be honest. No i think it's also because our music back in the day was just a lot more lives in america. Just johner was a lot more alive in america versus year. I think europe is now in the last year or two kind of get slowly getting it up where america was five years basically Which is acceptance of that type of music elektronik op and of you know like just electronic. I guess some design. I still felt in the netherlands that baghdad. You like take note for like hardcore out and trance like those three accepted signings. I'm a bit of drone base in. Yeah and yeah and north like thanks to bosnia and the noisy there was like this tiny shining beacon of light grabbed on sir like yeah life depended on it that you'd have to them early on. Yes oh yes. That's how we initially really do. I Yeah you knew about my music because you were looking for someone to project abandoned. Now we go. We go back again true but ovation that we had though we instantly bond because we were like what comes in the us two and both sick yet. it was. Yeah did you wanna make music like them. Was that ever a thought at the start. I thought i wasn't able to hide. It was their level was so high out that Longtime i mean why. Why even try. Yeah the no. I mean they. Are you know if we were talking about those genius. Artists they are. The ones are frequently still to this day. I'm like yeah. I don't have any idea how they did that. You know we've talked about a lot. But i guess i'm curious i'm sure you guys are getting asked a lot of you know what's the future look like. What are your next plans all of that and you know the how does it come to a close. How do you decide to separate and sort of leave. Your your flag planted all of that. I feel like that's out there. And i feel like unless you guys really have something. Burn you on to say it's like you know. People people grow as a project You grow as separate individuals and sometimes you. He ended up. You know go in different directions. But i am curious going from a duo partnership a collaboration to now going into whatever the next step is going to be it is theoretically a solo project for both of you and does that seem exciting. Does that seem scary. Does that seem a really anything you know. What are your thoughts on that Exciting in the sense that it leaves. It gives a lot of Opportunity because it is a Zhao was which there anything can happen. but at the same time yeah It's it's hard Because obviously the fact that we've been in the process of getting to this point for such a long time now doesn't mean that fans for his Signing as easy to think about it's getting into that direction Instabilities wells. I'm sometimes a little scared of in. In what way will fans still. Willie miss Mind when i am releasing new stuff. Funder for new hampshire drew Which is fully understandable as well. Of course the thing that i'm slightly scared of navy is that I really hope that doesn't take away from what we are. Both trying to do and that like hind doesn't get hit up with By people like hey really miss you worked for drew lou or with. Hey really missed. The artwork that high made or really is War of an slightly anxious thing. But i can also at the same time. Indiana doesn't matter because worst were still going to do. Whatever we fleeing is is the coolest do so with that knowledge we just have to keep going and if people like new and if they don't they don't yeah. I think that's maybe a great note for for anybody who appreciates what you do. Is that to you know if they like drew and they like this project than they like your ideas and your philosophy and if what you're saying is that this is the same thing we've always been doing is just doing what we thought was the coolest thing to do at the time that you can't really argue with that true. I think that's something that we're just gonna keep doing. Maybe not together anymore. You know but we're still just gonna make stuff that we like. Making we think is cool. And i think it's also Something that's hard for us. To maybe realized. Sometimes i this whole separation has been like a nine month long process from when we decided to do it too. We are now but for fans it's like a sudden think you Bradley kind of the changes everything and for us. It's not really a big jump but for fans of probably i mean i totally get that people would be slightly shocked by on taking back or whatever but i think there's just two things we're still going to keep doing what we like doing. And that's probably not really gonna change plus stuff that we did together is still there. It's gonna to go away. It's like rating the big old delete button still there. You know you can still enjoy it. I think i mean honestly from my personal perspective. There's only a few projects that i've been a very big fan enough for very extended periods time because stuff changes. That's naturally that's needed as well. Yeah i think they'll be yet. Even if i like. Iron can't really took an exclusive Radiohead or whatever. Even if i hate the radiohead new radiohead album. I still love the old radiohead album because it's still bear. You can still listen if you can still enjoy. I mean i. I've been doing lately. I've been making a spot of for myself every month which is new music. That comes out that one most of dejoy again. It's glistening to you what. I like this time. But you asking that galas Which i think gets it still. I can still exist. You know at something isn't not cool anymore because it's not right. Yeah and i mean and it's all tied to memories red and tied to nostalgia. You said you know the same way. The music is still going to be there. The arts still gonna be there. Were still going to have whatever memory people associate with your guys. Work up to this point. They're always going to have that to an end to take your radio had example. I mean even. If you don't like the new radiohead album you sort of trust them to be like well. This one isn't really my thing. I'm still gonna check out the next one. Because i like what they do. You know i appreciate that. Ms artis and i. I certainly think you guys have have earned that status over these years. I mean talking about as we kind of wrap it up talking about memory and nostalgia just just for fun. Do you guys have any any memories from the project. The just sort the you just think about a lot. Maybe like run on a loop in your head sometimes in the background. It doesn't have to be like you know a crazy tour story or anything like that but just just some some shared memory some experience that you just end up thinking about a lot. Yeah i i haven't. It's not like something that i keep something. I kind kinda came back to me years ago. Released binding was different this time. But we were on tour with sean in america. And both me vince. Kinda got a little a little under the weather a couple days. Anxiety janssen yego. Then we flew to san francisco and the body was a lot like pressure acknowledged. Human everything remember that she went to go grocery shopping. Really quick They called a dutch tiger crunch. Which kinda accurate. but we. I remember that we got that brand and it was just so good to finally have like some late dutch style bread again for some reason that i think i was thinking about that too because i saw it in dutch tiger crunched how bread into grocery store the other day. That buddy i remember i remember that woman. We were like joe sick. finally she. American wonder bread little touch of home or comfort that can be in so much definitely cheese everywhere. What we've found cheese Was slightly more like a dutch gouda or something else. Yeah it was a beacon beacon flight. I think we got this whole period of the second. Whenever had downtime in some city of finding a place they sold attended dutch soon. I think we got to manager at some point. Yeah it was really really nothing quite like it. I i love that. That's that's exactly what. I was hoping for out of that question anything. Come up for you. Bids yeah i think a lot of them. The times that was staying in like airbnb easing places that i have never been before but then for weeks and just by myself and those have been really I've learned a lot about myself because it it's it's so much spike throwing myself in the deep end of an environment that i'm totally unfamiliar with ends of make it work consensus ain't about. Hey how do. I want to be productive out. Y great regina the actually. It helps me to think back off on those moments. When i'm trying to read when in my Current life in jail burns and create a space. That i can call home because it was very much fighting with that. Guns of what is home for me. So that's that's something that i think about the live but probably also because i'm just Place in the netherlands beds. That's probably also why. I'm thinking a lot. Those moments tour. Of course i mean. That's you know that's another thing. We didn't really touch on that. The touring lifestyle. When it's really going strong your no mad right and it's hard. It's hard to feel rooted. It's hard to feel like you know anywhere is really euro and yeah definitely definitely. That's a very much thing that i've noticed and also for for a long time thrived on because i just had my yellow bag and i doubt my life wasn't there literally. My life was in there and the yellow back of definitely definitely. I've i never wanted to get a suitcase because I was always scared. The leave it somewhere. When i was on an airport with you when actively rabbits than i just wanted to have something. That was a part of me so i walked around like the juggernaut now. I think it's funny. I think we both never we. Never we add the the real back from the beginning. I my backpack in later suitcase. And that's never changed. We haven't gone one or whatever. It's that the yellow north face backpack. The what brandon is backpacking chiba suitcase. That's been that's been the setup. We added a couple of cases to for production later on. But that's always been the decor thing that hasn't changed. I live there. I think that's the in. This conversation is that you guys have managed to hold on to wear. It started in a way to sorta hold onto your your intentions about it from the beginning and to me. I think that that has to be one of the reasons why drilling has been successful as it has up to this point right. Is that sort of that certainty Of of a decision a commitment. I think that's an important thing man even down to something as little as a a yellow backpack i think those little those little reminders Subconsciously help a lot. Yes for sure. Yeah it's funny what you said about About feeling like thinking about the concept of home and enjoying not having a home for a while only. Because i had i had gone on the show months back. He said almost exactly the same thing and that he he like really revelled in sort of being a wanderer and not really having anywhere to hang his hat so to speak and then only this year of course because this changed a lot for a lot of people that he's sort of trying to see the appeal of of having a more permanent place. Yeah definitely definitely. I think that is also there was also a slightly different in in While i wouldn't call it mentality but more so future aspirations of exotic between me in hind where i was more. Yeah i didn't really care And and you didn't either of course but You maybe you wanted to get in touch with that idea of home earlier than i did. Our or because i'd like you said it. Also because of the cove is stuff more and more about why living situation as well as the on leaving in different ways right now. Which i love. So it's it's really interesting. Absolute man as has this conversation. It's been really fun. I hope you you guys had a good time before we definitely good good well before we get out of here. We covered a lot. But is there anything else you want to get out there anything else. That's on your mind anything else. We didn't talk about anything you want to get out there. Please feel free. We covered a lot. I mean we have no pitted marketing. Agendas saying yeah we. We dropped the march collection. Which we're really proud of. Go ahead if you don't. The net is fine. Louis sponsor money. That's yeah we we money. Yeah i'd rather pay rent than have kosher vinyl coming out which were really excited about That's the first time that doing any physical release. We obviously designing package ourselves and everything by love lada labor yet to hold it in in our hands ourselves assemble We're not nice. But i'm glad that we get the share that moment. But if you would would a bunch of fans who already bought the vinyl because the album's out coalition to it. If you wanted to again for people you know it's there's new stuff on it too right. I mean it's like that's what i liked about. The album is that it is a look back also new and it's an update of old things. It's it's what we were talking earlier with with vince. His narration in the digital museum. It's it's more context. It's a broader world right now. Great sweet we did it. Thank you guys man. I really appreciate this. This was super fun. Say this Best interviewed that we've had in a long time. Glad glad to hear that you didn't even do reliable Buncha people probably ask you guys about like. Why did you decide to split up. And everything. But i mean people change and people grow side the fact that you are not even going for that question with great or it's like we have that same fucking question for a million times. I figure people want to know the answer to that they can you. It's out there. You know you said that enough. Let just check the statement if you want like rate the full detail but yeah we grew apart be felt like it was really unhealthy situation anymore for both of us creatively so we decided to not do it anymore. Easy no but honestly this. This interview Even felt more like a great conversation so again thank you guys have a good rest of your day. Great talking to you you do all right. Take care guys all right. That's the show. Shut up drew. Thanks for coming on guys. That was great for everybody out there listening. I hope you enjoy that as much as i did. Don't forget a matter of perspective. The new anthology album from drew is our right now collecting. Not only their best works today but also new versions of old songs as well as some brand new material as well and if that's not enough if you can't get enough drew they've also got an online art gallery. That goes along with the end theology. It's on their discord. It's on their youtube It's a really interesting experience. You gotta go check it out. You can also follow me if you are so inclined. I'm at willie joy or at back to back pot on all social media or you can email me directly back to back odd at g mail dot com if you liked what you heard today if you'd like to hear some more of it if you would like to get more involved If you just wanna come say what up to me and hang out. We can do all of that over at the back to back. Discord the link for that is also in the description of this episode. coming out. it's a great group of people. Come share your arch. Share your music. Share your thoughts. Share your memes. All of that is at the back to back discord. That's it for this week. I hope you're doing well out there once again. Happy holidays happy almost new year by the time. You're listening to this. I it might be twenty twenty one. I don't know when you listen to these episodes. And if it is twenty twenty one and i'm sending you a message from the past right now man. I hope you're doing well. I hope you're happy and healthy. I hope the year is bringing you everything that you deserve and that you want. I'm very grateful all the listeners out there all the support you've given this show this year and i'm really looking forward to creating some memories with all of you out there in twenty twenty one so on that note Take care of yourself take care of the people around you be safe. I'm sending you lots of love and encouragement. I hope you accomplish whatever goals you're trying to work on right now. That's it for this week. I love you guys. i'll talk to you in the new year for back to back. This is willie joy peace.