Big Black Hole Announcement
Love this podcast. Support this show through the ACOSS supportively Joe. It's up to you. How much you give and there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Fifteen seconds guy internal. Ni- ignition sequence. Space Nuts. To! Radio. report it feels good. Hello once again for joining us on the space, nuts podcast episode, two hundred one, and thank you to all those people who sent his good wishes about achieving two hundred episodes. The three of you must have listened intently to know that it was as two hundred episode. We we appreciate the feedback air few people on various platforms. Says some NAS notes joining me as always. is Professor Fred. Watson Astronomer Lodge Hello Fred Andrew how you going? Your strident voice again. Thank you sir. Yes, good he yours too, and I hope you well still still in relation assume yeah, that's right, but all going well, we're. Just working from home. Carrying on carrying on you do. Yes absolutely and I was starting to say the the rules being relaxed in New South while so people are starting to venture out I think is. Is People being very cautious? But a lot of people taking advantage of the opportunity to visit, family and friends on a very very limited basis and maintain social distancing cetera down. It looks like whatever we've done to tile. Spread of the disease has worked very well in Australia, which is You know you gotta tip you to the authorities I now it was a hard sell, but tap pipe must have taken notice, and we've good cells down to less than a thousand active cases in the country now, which is just fantastic. Indeed and fingers crossed. That will keep going in that direction and thoughts are always with people in other parts of the world where things aren't going anywhere near as well. Yeah I I was looking at the statistics in the United. States today and I'm I'm gobsmacked to be honest I. Don't want to dwell on that, but g some of those states in America really in a bad way at the moment. But it's different for every country different rules different systems. Different capabilities seem to really be a factor as well but. He. We are not doing what we can to try and stem the todd now. Fred! We're going to talk about a quite a few exciting. Situations that have arisen one of which we've only been able to talk about now because it's been the subject of an embargo, and that's the European Southern Observatory's major announcement about a black hull. Can talk this because it's post embargo, but this is this has been sort of top secret right up to Wednesday, not which is bay, rather extraordinary and Another fascinating Yan has to do with the ice moon of Europa, which orbits Jupiter and we had spice private. They told me years ago taking selfies. on the of your riper and Jupiter and everything else that sort of flights around at the it's twenty year old data, but now we've been able to use up-to-date technology to take another. Look at it, and I'm guessing that found some interesting things. Speaking of your right, we've had a question from Adrian Crawford who has asked a specific question about Europa, so that'll tile well, and monique wants to talk about mining on the Moon the moon spinning the news this week. Seventy different countries certainly want to go back there. trouble with the moon is nobody owns it, and so this is going to turn into a scrum. Reckon so will. We'll look at all those issues today on the spice nuts podcast, but I this very exciting announcement by the. European, Southern Observatory about a blackhall which as I understand, it turns out to be the nearest one to earth, and it's not Sagittarius I. Exactly, that's right Terri say the supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy. That's twenty five ish. Thousand Light Years Away. You know we seat in the direction of the Constellation. Secretaries but he's behind all the Dustin. Count that, but can be detected by ready West. Which is why it's called sanitary style. That's the name of the radio sauce. So this is a different story altogether and it kind of. Has Echoes Andrew something. We were talking about probably about three or four weeks ago. The idea that might be many black holes out there which don't reveal themselves by anything other than the way they disturb the orbits of stars nearby. They don't WanNa Chretien disc of swelling. materialists plumbing plummeting into them. And causing x rays and radio waves to be admitted. Just quiet. Quiescent props, the technical word, black holes, sitting there doing nothing, but minding their own business, but actually having a gravitational effect on nearby stars and exactly. Excuse me. That's exactly what this story is about. It comes from the European Southern Observatory. And actually this discovery was not made with one of the giant ape point to me to tell us scopes of the the Lt the very large telescope. It's actually one of the smaller ones. A two point, two two telescope SIA which is one of the two main. Sites at the European Southern Observatory runs in Chile. So astronomers using that telescope have been analyzing the motions of a star system, which is only a thousand light years away. It's basically you know galactic neighborhood, and You know easy easy to see in fact this. System can be seen with the naked eye. It's in the Southern Hemisphere constellation of telescopes. Telescope, which is. So I think it's In the Czech Republic and at the European Southern Observatory Self. Who've done this this work? And the really nice part of the story is the came as a surprise to the. To the investigators, one of the scientists says we were totally surprised when we realized that this is the first stellar system with a black hole that can be seen with the unaided eye. That's yeah. That's big news so what we got here. We've got a star. whose name is hr six, eight, one, nine, very elegant name, really for it, but these it's a double style. Okay, so that means a binary system once DA orbiting another. And on this program that they scientists working on was a study of double star systems, but what they were. Amazed to find was that the observations demonstrated that this was just a double style, not just a binary pag going around their common center of gravity that that is something else in the system. And basically one of the two visible style us. object that is not saying every forty days. Naturally the second stop kind of a little bit of the much greater distance from from this. So what what you've got is a mystery it. We've got this. Two Stars one of which as orbiting the PGA, but the one of the actually orbiting something else as well That's the visible date so. Another of the Cole Has A. Actually Dietrich Bader who's at. Ayso, He says the observations needed to determine the period of forty days had to be spread over several months. This was only possible. Thanks to those pioneering service, observing escape to which absorb observation may be easily style on behalf of scientists needing. That's a mode of operation that actually many as Strong. Out-country Austrailia have used since three years ago, a strategic partner of the European Southern Observatory, so not service mode observing means that if you need observations over a long period of time, you can't go and spend to his sitting in Lhasa in northern Chile, so you get the local stuff that to do the observations for you, and that's how this is being brought to the out so the. The the bottom line Andrew is once again. Here's a quote from one of the co-authors invisible object with a massive at least four times that of the Sun. which is what this had to be it can only be a black hole. Become anything else and soon so that is the smoking gun the orbit of this this the near the style to the black hole of this past. Spinning round every forty days. Around something four times as much as the sun has to be a black hole, an is the nearest, and the conclusion is a really interesting one. Because I'm let me read the from the. Press release if I can Andrew Stronger have spotted only a couple of dozen black holes in our galaxy today, nearly all of which strongly interact with their environment, and make their presence known by releasing powerful X rays, but scientists estimate the Dover the Milky Wise Lifetime, many more stars collapsed into black holes, the ended their lives, the discovery of a silent, invisible black hole in HR, six eight, one nine provides clues about where the many hidden black holes in the Milky Way might be. The must be hundreds of millions black holes out there, but we know about only very few knowing what to look for should put this in a better position to find them this. This isn't. Sorry go. Just to say might be the tip of a very exciting iceberg. This coupe be the first of many that found by this technique. So this is not only the discovery of the nearest black hole to earth. It's also the discovery of a way of finding them. Because of the way we found this one. Is that what the side? That's exactly right? That's. Facts. Going to say that's a giant leap forward. Really is a giant leap forward I. Mean we actually talked about something similar to this? Probably four or five months ago. another similar discovery, but I think this one is the one that really clinches it We've got this way of discovering black holes by looking closely. At the Way Stars Excuse me stars in Binary. Systems actually orbit. It's a very powerful technique, and I think you and will be talking about to allow more over the years. Yes, I surprised. They've only found. You know a dozen or so in our. Immediate vicinity over the years, but as we have discussed, these things are very elusive, but it Naseem said I've I've revealed to us away of of now finding them, and we might be finding them in their hundreds or thousands in into the future We also talked in the past about the size of Blackhall's I think you did allude to the the size of this one but just. Give us a reminder. How how big is this one? Did you say yeah? Four Times the mass of The Sun? And that sort of sit in the black hole sizing chart. It, is Andrew under member way. You heard this I. It is a standard black. Oh. that. We haven't really had a definition for them. Have we No. Trade in the world of astronomy, we referred to stella mass black holes because. About out the same as a style, and you know you know again, if talked about this before we find black holes in basically two different castle, stellar mass, black holes, kind of like this may be up to ten or twenty times the mass of the sun, a the supermassive black holes which. Up to ten or twenty billion times the mass of the Sun So. Very little in between and finding new objects in between his another of the challenges. What you might call intermediate must black holes because they must be out there. And we think that they look principle in the census of globular clusters. Those things that are probably the remnants have galaxy have been gobbled up by bigger galaxies like the Milky Way so. There is a picture building up about giving astronomers, a method of finding stallion mass black holes the not active that the not emitting xrays because of the accretion disks. That's a really powerful step forward, and it comes about have to say once again because of the signs of spectroscopy. You're looking for that doppler. Wobble the thing that reveals planets around stars, the idea that a planet pools star slightly backwards and forwards. Reveals the presence of the planet the deplorable technique, if a new since nineteen ninety-five but the. This is an extension of that in a way, succumb of doppler technique, but for things much bigger than planets for black hole, so it's a very powerful why finding them. Ought to submit a paper or a an application whatever it is, we do. To. Whoever is in charge of? Naming objects, and suggests that these because standard mass black holes we ought to do. What do we know an astronomer? WHO's got context mobility do that for? Me, yeah I was going to suggest that. This would be the. International Astronomical Union, wouldn't it? We'd have to. And they would say well bots very nice, but. For Them! Wickham Stellenbosch black girls. Italian, much thing. I think as far as spice Nazis concerned. Standard Black Holes Andrew. Call them a standard blackhall from here on if we were. This! But that varies from country to country to. This is fabulous news. Yeah, that'd be a heck of a lot more to learn and This is propaganda, some chains dragging for a little while finding a a standard blackhall, so close to Earth, and did you say it was observable with the naked eye? Was that what I heard? Yeah, that's right a visible to the naked eye I. Don't have a to magnitude, which is a technical term use for the brightness of Stars It's certainly you know. It's probably about fifty zero six, which is Roundabout the you know the limits of visibility with the naked eye, maybe fifth magnitude. So. Would this be a good candidate for? A photograph. They'll be many of those. But, of course, all it shows up as in a photograph is a single point of light. Because You don't see any of these structure the binary structure of it because that's only revealed by the fact that you can watch the way the stars move around with a spectograph that checking de la cities as we call it. So, you know the this a stop. It will be any image taken of that part of the sky with with modern digital cameras. And it'll be. It'll be quite bright because he's a naked eye star, but he won't show anything different about it to to. You know to the casual. Luca, it's only when he saw analyzing the motion of the component styles that you realize that there is something very very special to open this. Yeah, we're on eighties. Six, eight, one nine. Remember that Rotterdam the number. It's A. Wonderful Discovery, and I'm sure we'll get to talk about it again real soon. You're listening to space nuts with your host Andrew Dunkley and the good Professor Fred Watson. All space nuts once again. Shouting at to patrons who support the spice nuts podcast with a few dollars a month into the kitty. We appreciate your support, and we greatly encourage it to bet it's not mandatory, but if you would like to investigate the possibility of being patron, you can do so on the Patriot website on dot com slash spice nuts, and if you think that's something, you'd like to do great if not, that's fine, too. We are not going to hold a gun to your head or a Stella Black Blackhall or anything like that I try on. Standard like. Patriot dot com slash space nuts, and and we would like to thank those of you who are chipping in to to this podcast alive and well. We greatly appreciate your support. Now Fred, let's move onto the next topic of interest in this one is very interesting, too. Because this Deitz back twenty odd years when Galileo was hanging around Jupiter during the fat, taking a few peaks and they did take photographs of Europa the ice, Moon. but here we are twenty years later or thereabouts. and. Ivory analyzed some of the data because you know the photographic technology we have. Today's much more advanced. And I'm guessing while La. They've come up with a little bit more detail about this amazing little world. Indeed, that Sarah, and so this is not accidental. Know it's not just people saying we'll have another look at those data from. From from Galileo. This is all about preparing for the next mission to Jupiter Jupiter Moons There is one called the Europa Clipper. is now approved the to check that? Within the next few years, there's another mission juice that you could try see moons. Probe which I think he's also on the I love the name of that one. Your? Moods. Does, so these are. That will give us much more detail about the icy moons in of course. As as as well known in the relax the question that we're going to talk about in a few minutes. Europa is one of the moons of the outer. Solar system that has the structure with a rocky Cole a liquid water ocean over the top of it, and then over the top of that a solid ice crossed. Europa. Especial in the ice crossed is probably one of the youngest surfaces in the entire solar system. A estimated to be between forty ninety million years old now, let sounds like a long time, but that for a for planet of a World Light Europa is very very young. The cratered surface of the of the moon, for example, the Southern Hemisphere at the move, which is heavily crowded is more like. Three to four. While more like three point eight to four point. Four, point two billion years old dates from a time when. Objects were hurling through this other system shing into everything. What is called the late heavy bombardment? The. Surface of Europa is not like that at all. In fact, there is, there are no discernible crisis on it, but what there are is are the markings and the the classic. Galileo spacecraft images from nineteen ninety-eight. Show these basically the show, the surface that is criss crossed by Brownish Markings, many of them very linear. And those mocking. The original images. It's not really possible to distinguish what you're saying. They just look like Brown markings now that Brown color a thought to be what happens when you've got a briny liquid likely. Almost like seawater. Filtering through the ocean beneath and then being irradiated by the Sun's radiation. Experiments were done a few years ago. That showed if if you've got a water that's rich in salts and minerals, a new irradiated with ultraviolet light and the kind of. Particle bombardment we get from the cellmate tons. Brown just like these the streets, so but those original images didn't really show much detail, and that's why this is such a great story because these at what we're talking about. Today is a re a reanalysis of those images by a team at Shaw. Actually at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory led by Think Planetary Geologists Cynthia Phillips. And that as you know a a fantastic project to bring modern computer. Algorithms to on images that we looked at and said yet great, fantastic stuff and then put away for twenty two years. What they've done is they've shown that. The terrain on Europa is not just an ice covering with a few black Brown streaks Scott, all or variations in it. So. the resolutions quite. Revealing things as small as. Four hundred and sixty meters across thereabouts. And they are. The detail is now I. think quite staggering. There is on the Jet Propulsion Laboratory website. There are some of the reprocessed images, and there are three different kinds of terrain that have been identified which was really recognized before. and I guess the first is what's called the chaos terrain, and that sort of tells it like it is It's like just lumps of solid material. Cut Often Colored Brown. With which looks just like you've taken a liquid filled a Pug, a glass bowl, fill it with ice. Crystals which Kinda than an input in the fridge, so they all partly freeze over, and then so the stereo stereotype so these these sorry ice cubes around the Nice Crystals, the all tumble all around. We've seen something similar Andrew on the Dwarf Planet. Pluto yeah. Put Planet does this exactly the same terrain and the mission scientists for the new euro projects think that this this chaos terrain on Europa comes about because of exactly that that the surface is being fractured. Remembering title forces from the planet itself that pushing and pulling this service, and you get the stuff breaking up into relatively small chunks, which then tipped around just like these ice cubes and giving this essentially. What's called chaos terrain? To more different features have been recognized a both really interesting and similar in that both long linear features, maybe a few kilometers wide few tens of meters high. The ridges any way few tens of meters. But but thousands of kilometres long, so the two different things ridges, which is where as I've just. Explained you've got a long. Ridge of material just a few tens of mates, they about hundred meters or so high. which are probably brought about when to Kinda plight device compressed together, and so you get a pushing up of the materials they collide at remembering. The surface is kind of emotional time dotcom bust with what they banned, not rock bands or anything like that far. Different Kulla. These are the opposite. These look as though there were two of ice stretched apart. An Isis grown in between them. Because what you've got is a abroad region. Probably ten tens of kilometers wide which. Is Very very smooth with the kind of Ridge on either side of it so hard to explain these two described these in words, but it's worth having a look at the pictures. The the reprocessed images of Europa which is the buzzwords. Put into the jet propulsion the bar trees. Website JPL DOT NASA Dot Gov. Okay. How big is you riper? It is bigger than our moon if I remember rightly, it's not the biggest of the Galileo to don't have the number numbers kilometers. Off the top of my head, it's very easy to find the biggest of Galileo's of the moons of Jupiter. The biggest moon in the solar system is made. But the but Galileo himself not the space craft astronomer discovered. These full allows moons. Ganymede Euro Callisto Eeo. You always the smallest county may the biggest so that you are. You're Oprah's between Ganymede. The beauty of them is that if you've got? Half decent. Pair of binoculars or a half day sent telescope you can, you can actually say these from your backyard. I, think our member. years and years ago being able to do that because I account, remember the circumstances, but Jupiter must've been. In a good position for us to observe and got some amazing photos off of the moons. Opening Jupiter with the naked eye, and that's just such an amazing thing to be able to say from such vast distance. The so stupid is coming up to be very favorable now for observing with small telescopes It's rising light in the evening on the old southern earlier until eventually. It's what we call a position where it's in the sky all night and it's. Kind of closest. But yet binoculars just about show. Jupiter is a disk. You really need higher power, and which is ten, Pyla. Ten magnification thereabouts The problem was those is holding them steady. The fixable something. Which? Potentially show you. The moons of Jupiter a small telescope is much better on especially, if it's fixed on Ella standoff something, then you can see, you can really see the from not tonight. The way these moons changing position. Which of course is what Galileo not? Stellian sixteen ten and Technical among the pigeons, because it was clear that not everything rotated around the earth and so. And, didn't he get into trouble that one? You're going into trouble. Okay so we? We've reanalysed the daughter and we've might always discoveries and we've got much more data Alabama you ripe. I think it would probably be a good idea to just dovetail straight into the question we have about your for. Adrian Crawford Adrian Rights Hello Space Nuts I had question I did now. If you wanted to answer now, we don't want to answer anyone. Is An ocean planet possible? We actually tackled that Wakotola Guy, so we've. We've answered the question. And I think I remember you saying Fred that the earth was in fact, the notion planet, one stage but then he goes on to ask. Is it possible that there is ocean life on Europa? Jupiter's Moon I was just curious if you. Knew the answer to my questions just want to say that I really enjoy listening to your podcast. You continue on. On with your awesome work, thank you I dream. That's. To say so Yeah Fred, do you? Do you think you right by I? Think has been identified as a a very potential candidate for containing life as has enceladus, I think. So yeah, I think the answer. The question is yes, but I think we OUGHTA were elaborate a bit more on that yet. It's a great question and you're absolutely right on during this perhaps One Euro per is certainly out there among the top two three candidates for. Finding living organisms elsewhere in the solar system. The problem is out defined them. Because if you've got a global ocean with a global ice layer on top, which might be twenty to thirty kilometers. Sake, you do have to worry about how you might probe down to find out what's going off first thing you do. Is You rent a space trawler? Selling need that. Maybe a space icebreaker. Probably. The ethical questions. You don't really want to show up the Oxygen Europa. The. European, pretty remembering correctly. has shown evidence of plumes of ice coming from the surface. Exactly as we've seen with Enceladus, the moon of Jupiter and of course the Cassini spacecraft flew through the plugs allies. Under told US Watson it. revealed all kinds of very intriguing things, molecular hydrogen, which suggests that. The The water has been in contact with geothermal vents at the bottom of this ocean The you know the. In all kinds of organic materials, all of which suggests that certainly for enceladus. That may be processes in place that would give rise to living organisms in the bottom of the ocean, a bit like the hydrothermal vents. We find here. Knowing that Europe has a very similar structure to intelligence. He's actually near to the. A little bit warmer. Although the surface is still in the minus hundred fifty. Hundred, sixties. The at the does suggest that maybe. That there is potential finding living organisms. In the oceans of Europa and one way of doing that will be to do kind of what Cassini has done on. Saturdays A to send a spacecraft I think the The Europa Clipper I think is designed to do. They still orbit the. Moon Europa and actually fly through plumes of material being released from Europa's polls. And analyze that because what you've got there is. Excuse me free sample of the ocean frozen. It's just ice crystals, but if you cannot allies those ice crystals, you can find out all kinds of things about the environment that they came from and say a lot of money on on an icebreaker weren't. Exactly although I'm remembering my conversation with. Linda, Spilka, who's WHO's the Cassini mission? Scientist told to her last year. Because, she was over to give some talks towards the end of the year she's working on, something called a ills, which is an enceladus I'm not sure what it stands for, but basically a thing shape like a snake, which is robotic, and you drop it on the surface of Enceladus, and he finds its way down the cracks. In enceladus is is and has a look in the ocean of enceladus to see what's down that maybe you could do something. With. Similar. Yeah so I think one of the reasons why people are concentrating on Europe. The moment is is much nearer. ENCELADUS It's a much quicker journey to get from Earth to Jupiter is to get from us to Saturn so we'll. We might find results coming soon. A- Although of course there are plans to to revisit to enceladus matters as to what's going on to. Ikea is interesting. you confident that they could be life in the waters of of Europa. Excuse me. I. Think I've. This to you two weeks running. Okay look how yeah I think is a really good chance that we'll find stuff that. The. Quite different from what we what we have here on Earth would still be classified as living organisms, I think he's unlikely that we will find Fisher. Creams Shrimp Brine. Nothing Irwin's. Dental! And On the But the idea of microbial life. My guess is that we're gonNA find within the next decade that yes, microbial life does exist elsewhere in the universe. Simply because all the all the signs point to that, but we haven't found it yet. Yeah, so the drake equation will. Change if we find life on another world beyond their own so. Just. In case, someone brings that back up again. Win Wins, Europa, clipper due to get. I don't know and I don't know whether they can go to launch date yet. The. Anita check up on that. Let me see if I can do that now. Andrew just to give you an answer to your question. I would Scott look into it as well and NAM. Let's. Let's take on. Notice and took. For a future date. all right but yes yeah, the potential does exist philosophy on Europa. the moon of Jupiter, and potentially enceladus as well and just as a final of statement on this Fred other any other. Life candidates in `Sola System. While the other one apart from the two week mentioned the other. Really strong candidate is Titan, told Time. The. Key knew what was going to say. The the biggest moon of Saturn. The only moon in the whole solar system with a thick atmosphere and this curious you know landscape of of lakes, and say's made of liquid natural gas with rocks that it water ice, but once again there is a notion underneath that motorized so. That the all bets are off without the could find anything titan. You could find microbial life that lives at minus ninety Celsius Lake of of liquid natural gas. The breathes hydrogen. Essentially that's one of the things that's been proposed that that will be extraordinary, just extraordinary. Nice life form yeah and again we. Want to do potentially some sort of test to see if it. Exists in the same plane as Lav on earth, or if it's a totally independent and self evolving entity that's. Let's? Go to, leaps ahead. We've already discovered life beyond earth. Is it the same as lawfulness has he goes. Genetic is exactly. That's the next big question before. But let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, but thank you. Thank you I dreamed for the question potentially. Yes, is the answer on both points we we answered. You question about water planets last week. You're listening to the space and that's podcast with Andrew. Dunkley and Fred what's. Now, let's take a little break and find out more about our sponsor. 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You can also join the space, not not podcast group, which is a group of spice, not the spice listeners that talk to each other on that particular platform, and now we're getting new members every weekend. nothing is. Somewhere ran. A thousand people in both groups, which is just fantastic, and if you're youtube, follow, we are there. We are on Instagram, and of course we've got Aaron website at bots. Es said dot com slash spice nuts. We cannot catch up on episodes as well you can also. Go to the space nuts shop, which is getting more and more goodies. into the into the show, so. You can take a look at all of that. And of course sets that's one of the several platforms where you can post questions to us as well. Now, we have a question Fred from Monique in Sydney. Who is asking about the moon? I have a question. That was actually put to me in a discussion about the mining of the moon. If we're planning on mining the moon, will the amounts of white being brought back into our solar system. I effect the massive planet because of we are accumulating white. That wasn't already found on the Planet Bay, have some kind of effect on the rotational position of planet and see. How would they even think about bringing These mind goods back down to Earth as it is quite the already quite a dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere Thanks for your wonderful podcast. I've seven episodes left before I'm completely caught up and I plan to start again. That's great awesome. You Might WanNa. Tell us what happened but that's That's my a three part question about mining on the moon. Now we have touched on this before, and the moon is in the news this week because there seems to be a the new spice Rice to get back there, and that involves the United States and China and India and Japan I. Think are are can't think. Of The plies involved because the moon is being looked at as the platform for Mars mission. but the discussion surrounding the moon in terms of. Potential! Mining exploits have certainly been around. Haven't fried. The half and it's. Interesting to reflect on, the might find the useful. Let's questions because that's that sort of. Let's just talk about these things so. If you planning mining on the Moon, what are you? What are you gonNA look for and the one that I suppose is. High up in the popular imagination is the idea of mining helium three, which is an Isotope Pavilion There's not much of a on the moon, but there's virtually none of it here on Earth but it could. This is not yet been proven, but it could form the basis of clean nuclear energy It's would allow you to do something cold. Nuclear Fusion in doesn't release dangerous radiation, so he could have a desktop nuclear reactor. That's the certainly the dream of science, fiction and easiest. Physics beyond to support it as well. Helium three? Mining. Does happen would be. It would have to come back to us because that's what you want to use it, but they met. The amount of being would be being mind. Microscopic compared with either the massive the moon all the mass of the Earth. That will be true of anything that you were. You digging up on the bone. Because we humans yet we can make big holes in the in the ground, some of which are very ugly indeed, but ends of the dimensions of the planet or satellite like the move they make no difference to the physical promises that more likely to affect the atmosphere A. With things like fossil fuel, burning and things of that, so that's definitely globally fact, but the the the rotation of the planet. He Toby and things of that sort have a has no effect tool. So that actually covers off the I two of of leaks questions. Yeah I suppose you'd have to bring back I massive amount of material like. A huge percentage of the moon's mass would have to be removed and put on earth to make any difference. I would imagine. Yeah and that's and that would be physically physically impossible, yeah. In terms of. You know any kind of conventional spaceflight. That's absolutely right. So what's more likely to happen is what you mind on the moon us on the move. whether that's minerals for fabrication. Maybe fiber catching of spacecraft policies, one of the things that people envisage with asteroid mining that if you find. Metal Metals on on an asteroid Then you can basically use those in space to build, but spacecraft which would stay in space. You don't have to take things back to make them. And then put them back into space, and like I like science fiction. I envisage a time. We mega spacecraft to be built in orbit. Yes, that's right. I think I would agree with that I. think that sounds. Future in space in fact. A great believer in large. Rotating self gravitating. Spacecraft for. Full fulltime hobby session by humans. Bedroom deal than taking. For example. And actually a bit more control, but also different story. The other thing, though at until, yes, kind of covers off the final one of the League's questions. How would they even think about bringing this mind? goods back to Earth as the dangerous mission getting humans back into our atmosphere absolutely right so most of it you use. Either in space or on the moon, but maybe the the more significant. Resource on the moon is out. She Wolter Allies because that is itself a very very valuable commodity in space. I'm Walter we know is existing hydrated rocks on the moon, but also. In the moon's polls, their crisis, which never ever see the Selm and are known to have reserves of simply ice in the bottom of them now. Could. Use that is A to make water, which is very simple process. If you've got these you need solar radiation of course, but but you can also a electrolytes it. You can decompose it into. Oxygen and hydrogen. Which is you? Rocket fuel so I is a very valuable commodity for the idea of further exploration of the solar system, because the moon's gravity is much less than the earth. If you can get the water from the moon tune into rocket fuel, you don't have to lift it off the surface and that makes things much much easier for journeys Domas for perhaps future space craft to the asteroid belt beyond. That you know it. It is a real possibility I think maybe twenty thirty years. We'll be saying water extraction from the polls of the move. That water be used to propel us to the outer regions of the system mazing Chris. You don't have to go to the moon to get rocket fuel of liquor cabinet and you know everybody's welcome. Different kinds of rocket fuels and once once social distancing. We'll all be. Indeed. manege thank you for the question. She a bit worried that it would sound dumb, but now either opens up so much dialogue and I suppose one thing I did mention that her question prompted in my mind is is ownership I mean. You can't just go out there and start digging halls really. Owns the moon in this treaties in place supposed to protect goalies, things, but there are question marks for that at the moment, because of the of the rice back to the moon for always raisins, although those have been dealt with so you're absolutely right that no nobody can own. The embodied in the outer space. Treaty nine hundred sixty seven. and. You Know Nineteen Seventy S. A, addenda but. The. That has been recent legislation passed suddenly in the USA in the UK and also looks Luxembourg which basically says that if you go to the moon. Dig? Up something and bring it back. It's yours Even though you can't stay claim, you can't say while this bit of the moons mind. You, but if you go bring stuff back than that belongs to, you, said pragmatic outcome based on I guess the main, mainly the experience of of NASA bringing back three, hundred, thousand, three hundred eighty kilograms of rocks and soil from the in the nineteen sixties and seventies, a new concept Fred because that was exactly how the gold rush worked. Yeah, that's right, yes, and so. In a sense that kind of sparks spice rice because. You cut linked linked to any of it, but you can bring stuff back from his. Got To get there and the same is true asteroids as well it would you know you'd have the sense of deal with an asteroid? Ninety all right. Thank you. Great Question I do have one more question without notice, Fred and Lo and behold. You're going to be shocked but I can answer this one myself. Terrific this one. This one came from twitter while listening to episode two hundred deed I. Hear Willie Wag Tile at the start of the program. Yes, you did you did indeed and for those who is saying what? The hell is a willie bag, tyler, it's a small, black and white native bird. It's an inspectable, and it has a long slender rigid tile which it wags, and it's designed to stir up insects, so it wags tile, and then spins around and catches the insects. and. That's why we call it a Willy Wag tile. Now it's biological name was logical time. It's probably something much more complicated than Willie Wag tile, but yet if they're a lovely little burden I have this very nice sort of little twitter, and it's quite pissing, and yes, microphones will fred's. I think it was picked up by the Williamsburg Towel in Alaska. Things out hangs around outside. My study window, which is very very territorial like. Anything. Which reminds me the other day last fraud I was standing at the front of my place, and I saw what I thought were five crows flying high in the sky, and as they got close to me, a realize that will five Wedge Tailed Eagles name. They've often see eagles in groups of more than two. So they were five of them, but my neighborhood magpies saw them to. And he went after the and he caught the tile Inda. And then. The funny thing was he came back old proud of himself did a did a victory sweep. Believe it or not Fred, but as he landed on the Lamppost at the front of my house, he got attacked by a pay we. Just. Stood there gobsmacked watching all these birds go to each other. It was just remarkable. Nightjar. It's. Fantastic and just a postscript. REPEA- Dura Lukaku free. I think he's the worst. He's Willie Whitetail I would have thought really swag. Tell us would have been. Done not be happy with that or just for just frayed. brought. We're going to wrap it up. Thank you, Fred Much. It's been great fun as always. Still can't do. We'll speak again soon. We will indeed Fred Watson. Astronomer Lodge part of the Space Knots Tame as you and thank you so much for listening, and we do enjoy your your comments and your questions and any input it all. On whatever platform and we do, look for your company again from Andrew Dunkley signing off. We'll see you next week on another edition of the space, nuts podcast. To this. podcast include. PODCASTS WHO GO PODCASTS spotify? IHEART Radio Info your favorite podcast. You can also stream on demand and. This is another quality gas production from dot? com.