Amanpour: David Kaplan, Carolyn Maloney, Anthony Hopkins and Kai-Fu Lee
They take one last ride around the world, the EMMY award winning Anthony, bourdain parts, unknown the final episodes chairs, Sundays at nine on CNN. Hello, everyone and welcome to almond for his what's coming up. Hi. Knife-edge drama playing out behind the scenes until the very last minute in a backroom. Deal supreme court. Nominee red Cavanaugh has been approved in committee amid calls an FBI investigation before a full Senate vote. I speak to the democratic congresswoman, Carolyn Maloney. She was moved to tears during Christine Blasi Ford's testimony and to Legal Affairs analyst. David Caplan whose new book warns the supreme court has become too powerful plus the Oscar winning actor. Anthony Hopkins from Hannibal the cannibal to King Lear, what's inspired his latest return to Shakespeare. Also a look to the future with tech expert Kaifu Lee, how the race for artificial intelligence will reshape our world. Welcome to the program. Everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London from the United States to right here across the pond and points beyond the bread. Cavern nomination is in sharp focus as he inches a step closer to becoming the next US supreme court Justice. The judiciary committee voted along strictly partisan lines to approve him, but in a dramatic last-minute, move Republican Senator Jeff flake would exit the room earlier along with democratic colleague. Chris coons says that his vote in the full Senate would be conditional on an FBI investigation into allegations of sexual assault against Cavanaugh. Information a can't make that commitment for the leadership. I can only say that I would be only comfortable moving forward on the floor. I'll move it out of committee, but I will only be comfortable moving on the floor and till the f. b. i. has done more investigation than they have already. It may not take them a week. I understand that some of these witnesses may not want to discuss anything further, but I think we're, we owe them due diligence. But the chairman of the committee said that amounted to nothing more than quote a gentleman and women's agreement flakes change of heart probably had a lot to do with this remarkable moment earlier in the day, which came just minutes after his office said that he would vote for Cavanaugh children in your family. They have two children. I cannot imagine that for the next fifty years. They will have to. Of course, who has been accused of violating young girl, what are you doing sir? Anyone in your telling all women got fetal matter that they should just stay quiet because if you happen to them, that's what happened to me. And that's what you're telling all winning in America. So did that affect what he did later and demanding that FBI investigation, we don't know. But the supreme court is meant to be an impartial apolitical body after Kavanagh's broadside against the democratic members, deputy chairman, Dianne Feinstein question where the his kind of Justice could indeed be blind while Republicans just wanted to get the vote over with. This was not someone who reflected an impartial temperament or the fairness, and even handedness. One would see in a judge. This was someone who was aggressive and belligerent. I have never seen someone who wants to be elevated to the highest court in our country behave in that manner. Frankly, we've had enough time on this to a horse and I just have to say, let's be fair about this. Let's vote whichever way we want to. And let's let's move on this. I personally am tired of all the games all the gamesmanship that's been going on around. Not just this nominee, but others as well. Well, as we said, they did move on it, but there is this caveat for an FBI investigation once he gets to the full floor. So with me to discuss this from Washington is congresswoman, Carolyn Maloney. She was in the room during Christine Blasi Ford's testimony yesterday, and at one point broke into tears. Joining me from Raleigh, North Carolina, David Caplan whose new book is called the most dangerous branch inside the supreme court's assault on the constitution. David Caplan certainly Senator Feinstein, and a lot of the Democrats obviously were completely. They expressed outrage at what judge Cavanaugh said in his testimony yesterday, and he, they say, was unprecedentedly political in his self defense. I'm gonna play you a little bit of what he said in his denial of all these allegations. This whole two week effort has been calculated an orchestrated. Political hit, fueled with a parent, pent-up anger about President Trump and the two thousand sixteen election. Fear that has been unfairly stoked about my judicial record, revenge on behalf of the Clintons and millions of dollars in money from outside left wing opposition groups, David Caplan in all your study on the supreme court. Have you ever heard that kind of partisan rhetoric from from any kind of nominee much less to this prem- cold. Will perhaps Clarence Thomas almost thirty years ago when the Senate Judiciary committee had to investigate charges made by Nita hill against the nominee Thomas. But I think judge Cavin dust protest a little too much. He may have needed to be as belligerent and his political as one was yesterday to win over the most important watcher of the day, which was the president. He needed the president support of the president tweeted thereafter. And I think cavenaugh did himself good with some Republican senators who wanted to see Kevin come out swinging, but that is not judicial temperament. That is not what it looks like. And I think he did himself at that end a lot of harm. We tend to forget that stuff. Clarence Thomas has been a functioning member of the court for quarter century. It hasn't done a lot of institutional damage within the court itself, but the court does take a hit and I think cavenaugh at least short-term takes a hit. But if. The name of the game is getting confirmed. Cavanaugh was in a much better position after his testimony than beforehand and congresswoman. Maloney. Do you think that do you think he's in a better position now offers testimony? Yes. There was a whole sort of relief from his side of the aisle, but after today, do you think that he can count on being confirmed. I don't think you can count on anything until the votes are over and the votes are counted. It was the most partisan statement I have ever heard from any nominee to any court. He sounded more like he was on the campaign trail as a politician, trying to get elected. Then someone who was to be moved to the highest court of our country that is going to be confronting some of the most important decisions that affect the lives of millions of and rights of millions of Americans. I was astonished by his his, his demeanor. It was certainly not the demeanor of quarter that you ever think that they're going to be balanced. Our you hope and look at the at the issues the it was sort of like it was incredibly incredibly partisan, and I thought incredibly in appropriate. And one of the reasons by you're seeing such a deep feeling across the country and during this confirmation process. The feelings are deep. They are strong and they are deeply divided, and it is not good for the country divided. It's it's really something very, very profound about women's rights about the women's rights not just to be hurt, but also not to be Noord as the Senator said. And I think that one of the issues certainly for women is that this particular Justice might vote with a block that could overturn very, very important women's rights. So it's clear why women are very, very concerned about this. But that's why I want to ask David captain again because you seem to say that if he got onto the supreme court, like Clarence Thomas, he may be you may this may not have any effect on his judicial thinking and processes, but talk to me a little bit about how this Justice is very different than Gossage, for instance, took over from like minded Scalia, but Kevin would take over from what's being. Considered a swing vote and that is Anthony Kennedy, isn't it very, very consequential who sits on the court, and whether his temperament and his nonpartisanship can be vouched for David Caplan. I don't think anybody has any doubt that Brett Kavanagh is a conservative. He he, he's been a part of the conservative political movement for several decades worked in the Bush White House. He often was was ineffective hatchet-man within the party. Don't mistake him for some who's lived in the ivory ivory tower, his whole life and assuming he takes Justice Kennedy seat. The court is going to shift, right? Those predictions are correct. Chief, Justice Roberts a conservative as well will pass for some middle of the court. He'll become the swing Justice, but cavenaugh will move the court to the right. I'm not so sure that he will explosively vote to overturn Roe v Wade. But he will surely look to cut back on federal power agencies like the EPA cutback on the clean water act, Clean Air Act, the power, this curies and Exchange Commission regulation of the workplace. And that's really the holy grail for many conservatives. Its conservatives. It's not so. Social issues. So much like abortion now, I think I don't think Roe v Wade will find a friend in brick Cavanaugh to be sure, but they didn't really have one in Anthony Kennedy except for a couple of decisions few years ago. And then back in nineteen Ninety-two and Justice Kennedy voted in the Casey opinion to uphold bro, v wave. But I don't think Cavanaugh will necessarily vote to explicitly overturn Roe. I think he will merely approve of a lot of antiabortion regulations that various states pass, which his temperament will his temperament matter. I'm not sure Justice. Thomas is still angry over his hearings than I report in the book thirty years later. He's enraged over it, but he was a conservative when he went on the court. And did he turned further to the right as a result of his hearings? I don't think so. I think Kavanagh's judicial views. He's ideology is pretty much set in stone. Now. Who is because he hasn't put his papers out, like Kagan, did ninety. Nine percent of her papers were put on the internet for the public to read. Very few of Kavanagh's have been put forward. FBI investigations used to be pro fomer, but for the allegations against him, they, they have not been investigated. And all these allegations coming in from women that and they're not being listened to their, not being looked at. They're not being investigated. They, I thought, I thought Dr Ford's testimony was incredibly moving, especially when she talked about why she couldn't understand what she needed to doors in her house. She and her husband had to go to someone to help her think it through. And it came back to Brett Cavanaugh and feeling that she was going to be killed by him and running out of the door and needed another door to run into. So I think that a lot of women have had these types of experiences and no one has listened to them and when they do talk. They are rewarded like she is, what does she gained from this? She's had death threats. Her family has had to move twice because of the death threats on her. Most women never work again. Anita hill never had another job in government. Again, a women who come forward and speak out are often are often lift through it. Again. They feel like they've been raped to gain and how they're being treated. And I feel that this next election and how they have treated these allegations, you are going to see a fury. You're not going to see the year of the woman. You're going to see the decade of the woman reacting to how serious allegations about her life about her body. She came forward, she wanted to be anonymous. She didn't wanna come out in the public. She didn't want to be attacked like she's being attacked, Kevin talks about how he's been attacked. She's been attacked for more. Deeply and seriously than than than he has. He has to gain a seat on the supreme court. All she's gaining is a tax in this situation. So now we have the specter of some kind of investigation. We don't know how how long we don't know how many witnesses. We don't know how this next chapter of the drama is going to play out, but I want to play for you. Something of a highlight of yesterday's here in which was precisely on this issue and Senator Durbin almost judge Cavill about whether he would submit of whether he would he would think of an FBI investigation. And here's how that exchange went. Judge cabinet, will you support an FBI investigation right now? I, I will do whatever the committee wants to personally. Do you think that's the best thing for us to do. Want to answer look center. I've, I've said, I wanted a hearing. I'd said, I was welcomed anything. I'm innocent. This thing was held held when it could have been presented in the ordinary way. It could have been held in handled confidentially at first which was what Dr Ford's wishes were as I understand it and wouldn't have called destroyed. My family like this. This effort has. So do you think he's what ego for an f. b. i. investigation. Absolutely not. No, right. He he's, he's fought it. He's, I mean, his his answer was his answer was terrible. Okay. So now I mean, if you if you really, I understand why why he and the Republican senators think that any delay just allows public opinion and perhaps of the opinion of Republicans on the fence to possibly move to opposition. But I think if you wanna maintain this Kavanagh does that he's totally innocent. It's pretty hard not to just simply answer the question about the FBI with sure bring it on because the Republicans aren't going to necessarily follow his request either. Instead of that long winded rambling vase of answer. I'm might have counseled the nominee the simply say, yes, yeah. Well, I wanna play you juuling. That say, juuling testimony from either side of the aisle on this issue of investigation, I from Lindsey, Graham who spoke about Kavanagh's testimony yesterday and then from Cory Booker who talked about who could be broad to be investigated. Some of the democratic Senator say, some of some of Christine Blasi phones allegations can be corroborated. An all of them can be investigated. So let's just listen to these two soundbites. I've been doing this legal stuff most of my life. Never heard a more compelling defense of one's honor and integrity than I did from Brett Kevin. Oh, he looked in the air by the and he was mad and he should have been mad all I can say about miss Ford. I feel sorry for her and I do believe something happened to her and I don't know when and where, but I don't believe it was Brett cavenaugh. And as a prosecutor, you couldn't get out of the batter's box because America before you can chew accuse somebody, but crime, you have to tell them when it happened and where it happened and you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. It did happen. Chairman. Lynn Brooks who said she did not want to come forward another friend from Yale and showing that this is not partisan. She is a Republican chairman, she did not want to come forward. But last night after listening to his testimony was so offended by his lies that this is what his friend from Yale registered Republican said. There is no doubt in my mind that while at Yale, he was a big partier often drank to excess. And there had to be a number of nights. He does not remember. In fact, I was witness to the night. He got tapped into his fraternity and was stumbling drunk, and he was in a ridiculous saying, really dumb things, and I can almost guarantee that there is no way that he remembers that night. So congresswoman, you know, the politics, you're right in there on a daily basis of this year on the house. But I mean, other going to be now forced to, I don't know what the process is just, I mean, to subpoena them to talk to them what if some of these people don't want to come forward. They can subpoena them. And what is this is such an important appointment that has increased in some ways. It's the most powerful -pointment in our country and can change the direction on rights and and direction of our country. It is incredibly important and people have no idea who Brett Cavanaugh is. He says, he's a choirboy and you have numerous women who've come out and said, he's a predator that he's a sexual person who sexually assaulted them. He may not remember, but Dr Ford remembers clearly, she remembers him putting his hand over her mouth so and she was afraid she was going to be inadvertently killed. So she remembers and she has cited three or four other people that know him know her and were there that night at the least we should talk to them if the other three women that have come forward. Are credible. You should investigate that too. Well, this is a character. This is incredibly important, and this should be answered before you put someone on the supreme court, and I think it is. Sorry, that's what makes just just running slightly out of time, but I need to ask you David Caplan about the nature of the supreme court as well. What the congressman is saying is obviously important. There needs to be an investigation of these kinds of allegations for both sides and for there to be credibility going forward. And particularly at this moment, you. I completely endorse the idea of an investigation. And frankly, further hearings if you learned anything yesterday, even though the crux of Dr Ford's allegations had already out there by seeing her testify by observing her demeanor, you could assess her credibility and under cross examined, see how she held up in a way that a mere FBI investigation can't do, but I'd like to pick up something pick on pick up on something that the congresswoman said. She said that this appointment might be the most important for the country for the next generation. And one I argue in my book is that that agreement from both liberals and conservatives is a problem. Why do we accept that? The supreme court? And they single vote on the supreme court ought to be determining key social and political policy for generation, whether it's on abortion or gun control. Or campaign finance regulation. Why do we all in an unquestioning way allow nine unelected unaccountable judges to determine what goes on to enter debris field. Well, you you want the court vindicate the rights under the first amendment free expression, the rights of criminal defendants under the fourth amendment concerning unreasonable search and seizure, the turn it is to have true judicial restraint. It's to have the kind of court. We used to have fifth made sixty eighty one hundred years ago where the court had the courage to say that's an important issue, but it's not for judges to resolve. You need to go across the street. Go back to congress and state legislatures and fight it out in democracy. If you don't like democracy, if you don't like some of the folks in congress, if you don't like who your president is, if you don't who like who your state legislators are, vote them out of office and pick those who will. Pass the right bills, choose the right policy. The fact that we don't like what goes on in legislatures and congress now is no excuse to then head to the courts to achieve our victories there. And I think one of the consequences of the courts, transcendent power for fifty years is comfirmation circuses like this had also leads to the distortion of presidential elections in two thousand sixteen and ultimately is bad for the court itself. Well, I mean, especially clear from many, many outsider's point of view that the court has become incredibly political, and this as the world looks to America for the ultimate and impartial Justice. Let me just say you both. Thank you very much, David captain and also congresswoman, Maloney, and this will continue for the next week at the very least. My name is Paul Shirley, and I've gone on a lot of dates. I've noticed something on these dates. I often find myself telling the same stories stories about my mother teaching sex Ed stories about playing college basketball stories about playing basketball and almost dying in the process. We all do this. We tell stories on dates because dates or when get to explain where we've been in, what we've seen in why we think like we do my name is Paul Shirley, and I hope you'll check out my new narrative podcast stories I tell on dates, you can subscribe for free on apple podcasts or wherever you find your favorite shows. Eighty. Kant's providence head coach Ed Cooley is on March madness three, six, five. I'm excited about the group nervous in one fence because of our inexperience in the back court, but athleticism are length and stuff. Much is three sixty five now at apple podcasts and Spotify. Howard Beck, and I've got been Gulliver of Sports Illustrated fun. Bleacher reports, the bowl, forty eight like you were Costa leads. So you don't really like pro violent, but what I look at what kind of a tree hugger from Oregon, right? But when I look at Lakers trading, if feels like the post likely place in the league that fits by, we'll break out at some point. So check out the full forty eight now, bleach report podcast and Spotify. So if there ever was a Shakespeare play for these turbulent political times, it is king Lia the demise of a demanding king, the backstabbing, power, merchants, who surround him, the chaos of war. The masterpiece is always timely and the latest actor taking on this demanding character is Sir, Anthony Hopkins, thirty years since he trolled the boards as Leah onstage. He's now bringing him to Amazon prime where he embodies the aging king, dividing his kingdom between his daughters. No, we have divided in three kingdom. Hostile, ten to shake kennison business for my age, conferring them on youngest drinks while we unburdened Kroll toward death. Hopkins is an actor beloved and feared for his work, whether in his Oscar winning rollers, Hannibal Lecter in the silence of the lambs, all his stifled Butler in the remains of the day where he managed to convey love and anguish with heartbreaking. Subtlety King Lear is out today, and we spoke recently about his remarkable life and career and what drew him to this pot. Finally. Anthony Hopkins, welcome to the program. You know, we are all so familiar with your massive body of work, and it just strikes me as a really interesting question to ask you thing. You didn't really want to be an actor. You've said music art, where you'll, I loves and you sort of stumbled into acting by mistake. How so? I wanted to be a musician. I wanted to be pianist. The. Composer. Played the piano ever since I was a kid six years of age seventeen of the law subs in school, not qualified to do anything, hopeless, everything, academically, no sports, nothing like that. So I didn't know what I was going to do and sending a scholarship for the Cardiff college of music and drama. So I thought, well, maybe I'll go and try scholarship as an actor and see if I can stick into the music department. Anyway, I I'd never acted before in my life and I did a piece from fellow and I did the audition. I didn't know what I was doing, but I did the audition full of sound and fury, and the gave this scholarship much to my surprise. So that's how I am how I start lover. Well, beach working for living. Let let me ask you something because it's really interesting to hear that fifty years ago. You got your big stage break by playing, sir. Lawrence alleviates under study in the Strindberg play. And one day as every actor dreams, the principal fell ill couldn't play and you stepped into the role, and I just wonder what you think about that serendipity and what he then said, the great man himself alleviate road. A new young actor in the company of exceptional promise named Anthony Hopkins was understudying me and walked away with the part of Edgar like a cat with a mouse between his teeth. That's pretty amazing. What did you think when you got that kind of validation ambitious young kid, you know, I, I wanted to do everything and be everywhere of skits different. I was under studying Livia. He seemed to take a shine to me because. I was very strongly in by strong man. You know, because I was physically very strong and tough, and I think he valued that actors. He said, you have to be strong very healthy and fit. So he gave me an understudy part to understood himself and he'd never been in this life than he had cancer, and those had it of radium treatment, I think. And I was told that I was phone one morning. You're on stage tonight. I see. You're kidding me. And I thought the joking. And I went into the theater for rehearsal. I'd learned the entire part. That's my thing does prepare the rehearsal, Robert Stevens, Jerusalem Koon, and Glenn bam, shows directing. And unfortunately the alleviates costume and cuneiform fitted me anyway. They started and. A huge round of applause at the end of it in the town of todos. Very good as far too young, but a live, your had come out of hospital. He visited the city was thousand for some dressed up this over-quota and stood at the back of the too much me. I mean, phoned me next eight. He's, how'd you feel? I said, what I've scared east. I bet you were. She did very well to your boy and any problems I I went. I went through about three shirts, so wet with perspire and sweaty. So that's tension. I tell on take with very about twenty five years. That's pretty that is a great story. And particularly that he got out of his sick bed brace basically and came to what you it is amazing story and you. You mentioned that one of your folks roles was a fellow and and you then took on a whole raft Reema of Shakespeare roles, but I'm fascinated that you sort of made MacBeth walked out and decided you just didn't wanna do that anymore in nineteen Seventy-three. What was going on in your career in your life in your relationship with Shakespeare? At that time, when I was about boy, I was I was trouble, you know, values, restless and I didn't fit in. I, I think it was nothing to do with feeling. Well, sure and fear, but I just didn't feel I belonged anywhere and I still have that feeling to this day. I, I never fit in quite easily with people in the acting business. I love working with actors, but I always feel slightly a bit of the outsider, and I think that's been my driving force. I suppose if you wanna call it, then. And I, I couldn't. I wasn't a very good team player and things went wrong during our production. And one day I said, that's it. And there was a director famous director, John next of bit of a monster, but he was great director, but he was a bully. I one day. I said, that's it. Agent as not going any more. You see the, you'd never work again. I don't care. I don't get, and I didn't. That was my. I didn't care about anything. I look back over the years. I think we'll ever hadn't done made that decision. It was probably the wrong decision. All I know. But. I was I was motivated by, I think wrestlers anger Harragan know that, but I wouldn't be here today. If I hadn't done that. Really interesting the way you the way you you describe all your, you know your, your own sort of feelings and the way you are. I wanna play just from what I know leapfrogging a lot. But so many people know you for so many things, but especially the younger generation for the Hannibal Lecter and I wanna play, you know how? How kind of awful a psychotic you are in this in this performance and what an amazing impact it's had, which is going to play a clip for a moment. I'll agents starting you think you can set me this blown little too. I thought that your knowledge, they're still in business. You know what you looked like to me with your good thing can be cheap shoes, look like a room a while, scrubbed, hustling. The case. Tuitions commuting down that you not more than one generation from Paul. Why are you styling and the x. tattle desperately to shed pure West Virginia. Your father, a coma Stingl land. Now how quickly the boys do all those tedious sticky fumblings in the backseat of cars economically of getting. Away at the end. I mean, it's chilling, even today we watch it. I wonder what your reaction to that is you got an Oscar for playing that role, and I wonder how you acting life changed after that role? My agent phoned enough noon is in the early host, the early getting ready to go on. There's a long run this another, getting tired and bored to break out. May my sent me a script. You them, you read from a script called silence of the lambs, and I thought it was, I said, as children's stories, no, it's with Jodie Foster and play part of Hannibal Lecter. They, they're very interested in you playing it. So the script came, I read part of it. I phoned him up. I said, is this an offer or not? And he said, but it's not enough. They're very interesting, but I don't want to read anymore. This is one of the best parts of to see fullback analogy said, Jonathan Demme the director's coming to see you tomorrow night. Your home. I said, okay. And I knew how to play it. I don't know why I know how to play these parts. It's a strange feeling, but it's in my muscles in my nature. I guess. I guess I'm an act of by freaky chance. I don't know why I'm not an intellectual, not an educated person, but I have this instinct for it and a sudden toughness and ROY Innis in my nature described your toughness and not being gentle actor, and you did say to the TV movie critic, Barry Norman back in nineteen Ninety-three the British critic after playing Lecter Nixon Hitler, all of those dog rolls you said it's the certainty within them that's attractive. The unblinking look into the darkness. I think I understand that for some reason. It's a pretty big admission that, yes, I quite can't quite understand anything about what I meant by that. I still don't get it, you know. But I've always had that instinct of. I was a kid. Of the certainty of that life is tough and hard, and I came from a background. My father was hard working my grandfather, but there was certain toughness about them that didn't mince where it's very touchy feely, and I think that's what I did is beyond the go. It was just an instinct that forced me to look at life as it is, for example, in the Lia can I jump to that from moment you can, but I wanna play. I wanna play a. I want to ask you about that because I'm going to play a clip. So you mentioned earlier and you know, we're circling all the way back in your career to Shakespeare. And of course it's been played by many, many grades your old buddy three and McKellen is doing it in the West End in Britain. Right now, Glenda Jackson, the other great British actress is about to take on King Lear on Broadway, and now you taking the film version before I pay play a clip. I wanna know what. It is about Lear that even fascinates you will. I pleaded use ago. Thirty s scoop and David has production was very good protection and I played, but I was too young. I was forty seven and I, you know, does up and I didn't know what I was doing, but I, I was afraid of it and it will. I wasn't as okay, but I knew I missed it because now I'm eighty. I'm in my first year. Now I understand the muscle of the man, the power of the man and about old age and about loneliness about death. And I've always had that sense in my nature about death and my favorite poems about not death more talent, but about the certainty of life about the certainty of mortality and like TSN. I have seen the moment of my Christmas flip and I've seen the tunnel footmen hold my coat and snicker and ensure I was afraid, and I wanted to pay Lear without the fanfares of bowing and scraping trumpet just as. An old warrior, whose impatient with everyone and has no time for nonsense. He only loves one creature. That's his daughter cordelia who I believe. In child. My my wife was killed in charter, gives us her so t to tell like a boy. Give a sword and bow, narrow fought with. So she was like a boy to me, but the other two girls, I didn't have any time for them and this and this is in my nature as well. I'm not a very touchy feely person. I don't have any friends much to speak up. This is my own personal, but I'm like, my wife says, don't you just enjoy solitude? I said, yes, I do. I do wanna play this clip from the film that you're in, and it's a more modernistic unusual adaptation of Lia and this is the scene you just talked about cordelia and how you treat it like a boy in this scene, you kind of disowning her. That's just play it. But that's not been born. Not pleased. Of. Let's see to the lead. We have. Portion, put yourself propose an I will make a cordelia, don't you of nothing. I have sworn firm. I'm sorry. So lost father. Demons lose husband. Peace be with Kenedy. To respect him fortunes, his love of shallow p his wife. I Cody D. And virtues here I seize upon the hasta king. That'd be. We have no such daughter nor shall ever see that face of hers. Again. Defa will be gone Greece. Bennis. It's very clear that you're not a touchy feely father there. How how, how do you feel when you look at that? That clip I su- to recently. I was in Rome and. I saw the film. I was moved not by my own. The foams is moved by the nature of that scene because it's very well. It's very part of my own life. And I, it sounds weird to say that because I don't know quite what I mean. But this something I know about this, something in my nature, I know maybe three expense with my parents, my father, my grandfather darkness, that term don't make it. Mysterious, but there is something that moves me about the finality of love, the finality of betrayal. And finally, you know. You know, they're not long the days of wine and roses off, we go into darkness. Do you now when did you feel that acting was not a mistake? Oh. Just recently. Recently, I was thinking my goodness, I've had a long life. I've had mazing life had a great life. I've worked with some extraordinary people and I am what I am today, and I the window and I think, how did I get you? And I can't really count for any absorb chance of given somebody breaks and. Made many, many mistakes, but I've managed to pull myself up again by the bootstraps and go on with it. So I know it's the only thing I can do have other hobbies, painting. I play the piano when I compose music, but this is the one thing that I do and I love and I relish and I hope I do feel more things like that, but it's been the best life and there was no mistake made and one one night we'll say one last thing. The happiest time of my life is now because I've given get rid of self consciousness being fee of self consciousness being free to not to realize that I'm not that important. None of that that hot who have for very limited time among. We think we are important think again, because we're not and not important at all. And that's the great freedom I feel now there's no scape life is terminal. I like that sounds like that. I liked it. Gallows human note. It's been a pleasure speaking to you, Sir. Anthony Hopkins. Thank you for joining me. Thank you very much. Thank you. And if I might say an important reflection by science and you Hopkins on self-importance it does strike cord at a time when our roles in society of being transformed by technology here comes artificial intelligence at breakneck speed, replacing jobs and changing the economy's in the race to achieve innovation expert. Dr Kaifu Lee's says that if data is the new oil, then China is the new Saudi Arabia. He's worked both in the United States and China with the resume, including Google apple and Microsoft. His new book is superpowers China's Silicon Valley and the new world order connects the dots on decades of development, and he tells a hurry strain of awesome that AI is at the heart a story about what makes us human. You've worked in artificial intelligence for a long time. You talk about different phases. You've got the sort of internet phase in business. You call it the is in ears and the hands and feet. Explain that I've Aleutian sure today we're already surrounded by internet that is being used within the Amazon, Google Facebook. In fact, this is how they've become so valuable because they take the data that we provide and our actions and use that to maximize their revenue or user benefit or some combination. That's the natural for step because they have the most data. The next step will be business. So banks, insurance, hospitals, and so on will collect a in. We'll have they in their domains and they can use it to make better decisions about credit card, fraud detection, long approvals, investment allocation. And so on. But these are both phrase one face to are both based on existing or being generated. Big data being generated. The third face is when the I has is it years and they can see in here. So Amazon go, Amazon echo are examples of that, but that's going to be everywhere as devices become cheaper and sensors embedded everywhere, along with the internet of things, adding to this network, capturing the physical world and doing things that couldn't be done before such as Thomas store without any human involvement. Then the last face, the fourth face is autonomous phase where the hands and feet are added. For example, AI can decide on making loans to people what kind of insurance policies to issue. I can be added with computer vision and robotics and. Bill, the self-driving autonomous vehicles or machines that can manufacture future products without human involvement or even autonomous agriculture picking up fruits and vegetables and strawberries. So really taking over all the routine jobs, we have you just rattled off for different industries, all the loan officers in the world, all the drivers in the world, all the pickers of crops. These are. You're talking about a seismic shift here. You're talking about billions of unemployed people if all of these jobs go away. Yes. And the good news is that this will generate amazing efficiency and the phenomenal phenomenal amount of wealth that will help move us forward. And the question is, what happens to those and employed people, how this, the redistribution of wealth and the retraining for the new jobs or early retirement or shift to volunteerism can transition the work sows so that people can continue productively happily, how does our education system change to prepare for this? So the education system has to stop guiding people towards the jobs that have no future. So even vocational schools have to rethink, are we going to have as many auto mechanics. Or truck drivers, we're we're not, but we might still have a large number of plumbers because I can't handle the variations of environments, and we're going to need more elderly care more nursing more teachers. So the entire job mix will change and education should change along with it. In the book, you lay out almost a four quadrant matrix at the types of jobs that will be most likely to be replaced or are being replaced now and the types that are least replaceable explain. So if we look at this defensively, what are the things I cannot do? That's what we should put our energies. A, I cannot be creative and cannot become passionate. Those are the two biggest core pillars there other things, but these are the two core things. So the four quadrants would correspond to four types of human AI symbiosis. So for the highly creative, highly compassionate jobs, a doesn't have a chance at the best is tools to. Help us to better in those jobs for the jobs that are highly creative, but doesn't require human interaction. Compassion than humans will continue to create with AI becoming tools to help them be more creative. Let's say, scientists discover more drugs for the jobs that are highly interactive with human component, compassion empathy, but not that creative. Those are the kinds of jobs where AI little engines will become dominant, but humans will really rack their warmth and actively around it. For example, doctors teachers. They'll they'll make the professions more effective and leverage the tools and be able to reach out to more people that way. So how does it doctors job change in twenty years with, let's say, an assistant, I think the doctor, yes. I think the doctors job will change into that of interacting with the patient. Understanding the patient's history, teasing out all of the necessary ingredients to make a good noses have the make the patient feel listen to and then have rely on the I to make the possible diagnosis and the doctor can potentially override in the beginning. But over time the I will be so much better. The doctor is going to be mainly the human communication tool to offer warmth, compassion care, confidence, and that outcome means the type of healthcare that we're able to get today can be. Provided to all the poor regions and countries at a much lower cost. Your book is called the superpowers and there's a lot of concern on the balance between who has lead and whereas the edge and do they overtake each other, who's advantage here you start out by saying that look China's, not in the lead right now, but we're exceleron and catching up in an incredibly fast pace right US led all the technology research and it's actually openly publishing shared. So China like every other country has an opportunity to take those algorithms and implement them. The China's advantage is that China has a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of capital fund them, and they work extremely hard, entertaining, and finding every business opportunity in phases one, two, three, and four of AI. And but most importantly, China has a lot more data than everyone else because all this AI. Is automatically learning based on data the more day that you have the better your is and China has more users and also more data per user. So the companies that are being built in China has an inherent advantage of of having more more data and therefore training better given. There's so much data being generated in China on your facial recognition and on your shopping habits, where does privacy come into the mix? They are clear laws that would forbid companies from sharing or selling the data. So actually the Facebook Cambridge, and the liquor case would have been more seriously prosecuted and pee more people would be put into jail for illegally sharing private data. However, the collection by a company of where you went on your shared bicycle or what you bought on your mobile phone is not so different from what these Google and. Open table about about the American consumers is just that the speed of adoption, this faster. I think ultimately every country has to figure out how to balance privacy, personal safety, convenience. These things can't all be perfectly had. Are you concerned about the size of companies getting too big and leaving people out whether it's Google and Facebook and Amazon here or could be ten center Alibaba and China? Yes, yes, I am. I think there is a virtuous cycle for them because more data bills better products makes more money than more machines. Even more data that virtuous cycle makes monopolies harder to break. Traditionally monopolies were were there because of exclusive access to resources a great brand user loyalty or technology edge. Or high hurdle of entry, but now the I can add this virtuous cycle. So I think we need to be cautious about the companies that are getting to powerful. I think there's still plenty of room for innovation and entrepreneurship in areas that they're not currently dominant that used to be. The picture was two guys in a garage coming up with a better mouse trap, right or something better. Ken to young women in a dorm room, build something that challenges Alibaba rooms on, I think so. I think they can invent a brand new application and that will over time come into competition and challenge, sort of like how Facebook. Became kind of threat to Google at times kind of how actually in China by do was the big company and then tencent and Alibaba emerged. So I think the new companies can challenge old ones, but probably generally not in directly going into a market in which a nearly monopolistic position is already there. Ask you. This question is both somebody who understands both of these cultures growing up in Tennessee, working in China being Chinese, and also as an investor. The last six months to year have been a low point in the relationship between the United States and China were right now engaged in a trade war. How how do you see this playing out. Well, I think u. s. and China have such mutual dependencies technology that continued trade war would just be a lose lose. And also it's a very sad and for me because I think there's huge affinity by the Chinese people for America. As China opened up, it looked to the market economy in the US. It looked to Bill Gates as their heroes, and actually, if you go back further, historically, there's the American flying Tigers World War Two. There's Americans donating ching university, the best school in China. So all that goodwill I think is seems to be melting away from the US side. And I think that would be such a pity and and all of us, my colleagues who have benefited from the great American education. So there's every reason for US and China to work together because. Of the. Already intermingled technology situation and for such strong affinity coming from China towards US and whatever the governments want to argue and fight over. I sure hope the American people understand there are one point, three billion people who love to be America's friends. You've said that it took a horrible stage four cancer diagnosis for you to learn to slow down and you're actually evangelizing in a way for other companies in China to create a different kind of work culture. I, I am trying to do that. I don't expect to be completely successful. I think the forces of the generations of poverty and the hunger for success is too much to and to insurmountable. But I do see, in my personal case, I was working as hard as the entrepreneurs that my company funded and only when I got sick, did I realize that all the money and fame cannot buy back my health or the love of my family. So I came to realization by facing death, and I wanted to share that experience with the those people who will listen book is called superpowers China, Silicon Valley in the new world order. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, hurry. Such an interesting perspective and experienced just in his professional, but in his personal life as you heard at the end there and that is it for our program. Thanks for watching. Remember you can always listen to our podcast see us online at Amazon dot com, and you can follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Goodnight from London.