Episode 8: 212 Hicks Babies
Wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle wiggle. Hello everyone welcome to TV literate. A podcast dedicated to watching trashy TV. Without shame or judgment. I'm Dylan and I'm Megan. So Megan one of you've been watching. Let's see I'm trying to think like this week has just been like a blur. I don't I don't even. It's really gotten away from me somehow. It's it's been a rough week. I don't even know why but it's just I don't know but let's see I've been watching so I haven't really been keeping up with the new season of ninety day. Be Theon say before the ninety days so I got caught up on that and that's been quite good quite quite entertaining so I started. I started watching a new like teen comedy on Netflix. It's called never have I ever which was created by Medicare link the office and the mini project and it. I only watched like three or four episodes. But it's just about like an Indian American teenage girl that wants to be popular but is not and it's I really liked the first few episodes I watched. So that's been fun. Nice yeah but What about you? What have you been watching? Have Still Been Watching Star Trek. It's comfort food. I get I get that completely. We all we all have those shows that you watch when you just need something. That's comfortable and easy but still you know it's going to be amazing. The payoff is going to be there. I yes everything will end up all right. Even though it's stressful. Yes exactly you know you know everything will be okay in the end. That's all that matters. Yeah other than that washed a whole lot of dateline last weekend just really got on a kick after we recorded and then I was like I gotTa Watch Eighteen datelines. Yes yeah I I. Yeah but last week's new dayline wasn't very good wasn't very exciting. Very disappointing. Disappointing Other than that. I've just kind of been surfing the the trash waves on like Pluto. Devi if I see something on I think we put on an episode of. It's not next but it's the other dating show the MTV that's two words is the parental control. Yeah Yeah I love that show. It's like where the parents pick the day. Oh my God yes I remember. I just for some reason. There's this one episode that is distinctly imprinted in my mind of these two like alternative cool people on a date and they get Mega like lip. Tattoos like inside. Their lips like matching. Wow that was an early two thousands relic for sure Yeah but yeah. That's like imprinted on my mind forever. So I just associate that show with lip tattoos. Seriously I understand. I know such a weird show the one that I remember the most is where like they went on a date to go paint balling and they ended up shooting the crap out of each other. I don't know it was so much I do remember that. Did you see that. The Pentagon is essentially confirmed. Ufo's I did see that. I haven't like dug deep into it but I have seen the buzz about the UFO's and that is very exciting. I know and it's amazing that we're just like you know what you might exist but we gotta get out of our houses. Yes Yeah Yeah Yeah. I was superstar because I watched the one. Tom Delong leaked the one. The videos that have now confirmed and those are some well videos. Yeah I haven't really watched them but I have to watch them because that's really cool. That's exciting I saw tweet. I don't know why this made me think of a tweet. That was like why do people call them? Unidentified FLYING OBJECTS THEIR UFO. They're not identified. We know what they are gone. All right so what? We're talking about this week in what we mostly watched yesterday and the day before taken at birth on Hulu which originally aired in October of last year but just came on to Hulu on the first of April. It was wild. Y'All it was crazy and so it originally aired on TLC. And I think it's this was so different from anything I've seen from. Tlc Yeah just the how it was. How the entire show is different. Not only to the subject matter but just how it played out how investigated things I felt like it was really well done production and it was way more dateline than acting from TLC. I felt like it was a pretty thorough investigation and I feel like they kind of tried to get all different viewpoints in there which I appreciate it a lot. Yeah I was curious about that especially since all Tiger King Hullabaloo and I was googling everything I read like the original Nineteen ninety-seven article when they I figured out that he'd been doing that nursing and like they really didn't leave anything out like or direct us into any way other than the fact that he was doing it. He did it. The facts like the did do this. He did have this Ella. At least one illegitimate child so these are just fact for everyone. Here on is spoilers for the show a Some people's lives so I guess it's not really a spoiler It's it's done happened but if you want to get the full story and the full the full what's the word I'm looking for. Experience the full experience. Yes thank you. Yeah because it's there's a loss of twists and turns. They did a lot of stuff and a lot of information was revealed and found which was cool. I liked that it was a short series but a lot of stuff happened in that series. Yeah there were only a few times where I felt. Like the T. L. Seeing of it where it's like only twenty minutes. It comes in it but we've got a bump at that extra five minute break like artsy shots of a parked car. Oh yes I mean. They have to do that sometimes every TLC contract it's like you have to have these exact shots in in or else it will not be admissible you've got to have five minutes of b-roll per hour or else cut me exactly. Yeah there's gotTa be some downtime for you to go and get chips from the kitchen or something. You know true true all right. So do you WanNa do a summary or you want me to do a summary. I can start and then we can kind of pass off if we want so. Take it at birth tells the story of the Hicks Clinic which was in Mackay's Ville. Is that what it's calling? Mccain Casal Georgia and it operated in the nineteen fifties and sixties and there was a lot of kind of sketching us going on and it was kind of revealed that he was essentially doing like back. Door adoptions and then it was revealed that not all of the people who had the babies knew that their babies were adopted. Some of them thought they were getting abortions and their kids were stillborn even though they were wanted child right. So there's all the scratchiness behind that and at the take birth Docu series. I suppose Documents some of the kids who came out of the Hicks Clinic discovering their identities essentially and trying to figure out what happened and if they have any actual biological ties and all kinds of stuff. Yeah starts out with one of the kids Jane Blasi. Oh she's the one who actually blew the whole thing wide open because she figured out she was adopted and then her mom wouldn't talk about it and she eventually talked to her dad after her mom passed and then she was like all right well. Let's see my birth certificate. It says Doctor Hicks. Where'd you guys go in there? Like the case bill inception drove down their age. Nineteen that woman has some balls? Let me tell Ya. Like there's part of the thing where she's talking about. How she here's a shot gun rack at her when she's looking through a window night and the essentially had to like back. Elliott talked to someone. Yeah it's it's great. It's that was one of the biggest surprise to me was how the secret of the Hicks Clinic seemed to be so well known within the community like a lot of people knew not probably all the details but essentially what was going on but it was still so closed off and it was like never talked about it was never really brought up and I think that that is insane. Yeah no I mean I was reading the original New York Times article from one thousand nine hundred seven when she told everybody and she and A judge finally figured out after they pulled all the birth records from Mackay's Ville. That was the part that they didn't look super clarify in the show but like her and a judge went and looked through all of the birth certificates from fifty one to sixty five like everywhere when they were registered with Georgia like. Why are people coming down to Georgia from you know Scottsdale Arizona and from Michigan just to have babies in the middle of pretty much nowhere? It's lots of little towns but it's not like going to Atlanta. Yeah that's insane. I just and not only that but just the amount of work that has gone into. This investigation is just mind blowing out of. I can't imagine how many like man hours total have spent have been spent on all of this stuff because not only. Is it finding out who was who were the babies but it's also finding out. Who are the baby's parents also finding out what happened? What were the circumstances behind the birth and it's like racing a ticking clock because no one's getting younger exactly like the kids were born in the fifties and sixties so many of their birth parents are either passed on or about to pass on. Yeah so that's so scary. And it was heartbreaking. They talked about how multiple times these Hicks babies is. What they were called would find their birth parents and it would be like a month after they passed away. That's a heartbreaking to any of them find a living parent. Oh yeah that one lady did the guy who wouldn't meet her. Yeah the hugest bummer. I get it but also yeah And then yeah. I felt bad for her a lot. That was really sad but I mean I do. I don't know it's it's a complicated situation It is and it's it's wild and entertaining but also supergrass saying but also I think a lot of the like secrecy was kept because the people of McCain's bill felt like it was like a duty. I guess because it's like Bible Belt Railroad keeping all these girls from getting abortions race. Yeah that's I thought that this. This story just brought up so many complicated about abortion in general and it just yet it all. I think it all goes back to that. Really is abortion and this stigma behind abortion and not being able to get safe abortions and especially in fifties and sixties the double edged sword of just existing as a woman because God forbid you get pregnant out of wedlock but God forbid that you abort that baby right. Yeah so I think my biggest beef with Dr Hicks through all of this is that he like convinced people to have the babies or adopted. The baby's kind of in a shady acres adoption is very expensive. It's not an easy process for anybody and you have to have so much visibility to like adopt out a baby. Yeah that's what I appreciated that. The show talk to some of the parents who did adopt through the Hicks family and like Damn expressing how they had tried option. They had done everything they could and they could still not get a baby. This is literally the only way they got a baby because looking at looking at the situation it seems like who would who would sign up to get a baby from that like. That's so sketchy but then you. I'm so glad that they had that viewpoint expressed because it does make a little bit more sense obviously is. That's the thing that's my biggest beef is that he wasn't doing it for that. He might do it now because he somebody pregnant and he was like. Oh you know what I can just adopt this baby out. No problem to say Yeah Stillborn. Yeah and then. He realized he could profit from it too because he was just selling these babies charging for the abortion. Yes yes so that's cool. Yeah it's that it really is like it's all about his intentions intentions. Were not good. That's I mean clearly. It seemed like there was plenty of evidence to suggest that he was inducing. Labor's early and that he and I think that that was probably in the guise of. Hey we're gonNA give you a late term abortion but then they would have babies that were four and five pounds which is won't baby was like three and a half pounds. Yeah that's crazy like having a baby. That's four pounds in. Twenty twenty is not a good thing. Obviously there's plenty of medical intervention elements. But it's still not a good thing. So imagine it back in the nineteen fifties and sixties especially with a doctor who is obviously negligent and doesn't care about the baby's well being to begin with I mean W- so we're told that two hundred at least two hundred of these babies were adopted two families but those are only the ones that survived. And how many of them did not survive. And how many of them went without birth certificates and how many of them. The number has to be astronomical. I I mean it has to be so much more than two hundred Yeah I think. The total confirmed number is two hundred twelve as last article. It was written about it. But who knows? I'm sure they'll be more journalism about it again soon. Which was good. Because that's how you find people and get them to do their. Dna tests to see if they are familiar matches. Yeah there was a sentence one of the. I don't know who it was. Who said it but somebody said about Dr Hicks that like this man obviously didn't count on DNA being because that's really what's gotten everything. I'm sure to be so much easier to find information like obviously there's nothing you can do before. Dna there's no way they would have been able to find any familiar matches without DNA. So I mean that's an and shows that there's hope that maybe more information will come out in the future once there's more scientific developments that's cool that's cool to think about. Yeah so they started off this whole season series with Standing outside the Hicks Clinic as it is now. I'm sorry for how hard I laughed that. It's a pizza place like this is the old Hicks Clinic building and it's like fresh spicy. Yes that it's like. This is where he would perform the abortions. It's like here's the pizza oven. Somebody comes out with the big lake dumpster bag to go throw away. They're like that's one of the babies came out weird. Yeah I don't. I don't like thinking about that no pizzas. I wanted to talk a little bit about Sallie Hicks so she was pretty big part of this. So sallie Hicks is doctor. Hicks is granddaughter but She was adopted because Doctor Hicks is daughter-in-law could not have children and it is kind of thought that that the adoption process somehow kind of sparked the idea or at least gave him. I don't know some type of experience with the adoption process because that's kind of when everything started which is so crazy to think about well under remembering from Sally Hicks. Didn't she say that they're that? Her parents were offered another baby right before her and then they got her like by him so there was like that probably like Steven or something right. Yeah Yeah it's yeah because I think Stephen was the oldest sir baby the first baby. Yeah sorry so Hicks Sally Sally Cob. She had like a two different. She had several last names. She's not she she was. Yeah I I've liked her a lot and I really respected her for what she had to go through being has she literally had her father's body exhumed and her forty one years and just to get DNA to not only see Not only DNA for the other Hicks babies to see if maybe they're related because that's another thing is a lot of people think that Doctor Hicks is the father of the lot of the babies so she got for that but she also got data because it was kind of suspected that even though she was adopted that maybe her adopted father was also her biological father because they looked a lot alike which they did like the pictures. They did look a lot like. It was weird. I'll white people kind of look the same but so it ended up not being her biological father which was kind of heartbreaking to watch because I think she really kind of had her hopes up that it was but I don't know I think honestly I feel like that would make things more confusing just to find out that biological father would feel like I'd rather find out that he's not since that was what you've been told your whole life and you don't have to like be like why did he lie to me and tell me that. I wasn't his rate which I think it's a lot easier to deal with. Oh they're just adopted me and loved me and they're good at the same time. I do understand like being adopted. I'm sure it's hard to not have any blood relatives and to want to have that so I do get that. She probably had hopes up for that. Just kind of CETERA. One step back so now. She has to find whoever she is related to exactly. I think that would have haunted her if she had not done that. Oh yeah definitely but I thought the whole body exude. What does it exist today. That exhumation exhumation body exhumation was insane. It was awesome. I loved it I thought like I said I just have a lot of respect for sally even doing that but then she was even considering being there. I was like the fact that you even consider that. Like you have some balls because I would be like if people were digging up. My Dad's body. I'd be like okay. I'm going to be like in the next state you have. I also three weeks. Yeah exactly That was that was crazy though. And he was like so well preserved even though he'd been buried for forty years and bombing back in the seventies eighties goes the seventies. Yeah I that's creepy to think about but it was really cool. It's really cool to see cool cool to see the process because I never really done any research about body summation so well if you ever get down to. Youtube whole asking. Mortician is great for all off. That sounds fun. She is really cute. La Like alternative mortician so she does water. Burials and stuff like that. Not just casket inbox. But yeah she's a great watch. That's cool. That sounds fun. I'm going to have to watch that. Yeah and she's not like overly graphic or like gross or anything she just tells it like it is. That's good I like that. Yeah so sally. I'm glad tangentially to sally that whoever they believed out who was actually related to Doctor. Hicks that. She thought that he was her dad. Y- was actually heard. I was so happy that because I don't know it. Kinda seemed when because not only did they find not only do they not find the biological match between Sally and her dad but they also none of the Hicks babies that had been tested matched either and it was kind of felt like a dead ended. I felt like everyone was kind of disappointed by the results so I was really happy to find out that they at least found some conclusive evidence. Like I'm sure that that woman is so happy to have like to know. She's been wearing her whole life. Who are data is and now? She knows and that's amazing. Though at the same point in time that it makes go officially related to Doctor Hicks. Which I think is was kind of the weirdness in the last episode where they were talking where they were getting all their results. And they're like you know I kind of wish that he where my dad but also? I'm relieved that he's not your at least. I'm not like you're back at square one but at least I don't have any genetic material from terrible man. Yeah I men are the worst. Oh sorry this. Is this every episode of the worst? But you gotTa do better if you don't want to be the worst. It's a common theme in everything we see in do because it's just the it's just the truth. Men think that they can do whatever they want and that they have the right to do whatever they want to and with within and out their bodies yes and time and time again it just. It doesn't go well. Okay so I think my favorite character of the entire thing. She was in the first episode. Not ever again. Oh wait was it. Hold on let me see Lacey Lacey. I have vowed to Doris Abernathy. Ho Ya Abernathy. The ninety year old town historian and she was just pleased as punch. She was my queen like she is everything to me. She was so excited about her. She's yes like John is not. She knows everything she's like. Yeah anything you need to know about. Mckay's will I got it. I know it. Here's she was like so happy and bubbly and she's just so cute. I loved her and she liked kept up on everyone like ten live anywhere there anymore. Like she lived in Murphy North Carolina. So like she knew she knew she knows. She's the vault. I have so much respect for her. She's so good she was. She was my favorite character sue. Good I'm glad because she was just so adorable and I loved her and she was just so like enthusiastic about history she was. Oh do we WANNA talk about how they broke into a mausoleum to? Oh Hell Yeah. So not only did they dig up a body but they also broke into a mausoleum which the mausoleum didn't have any bodies in it. The bodies of Doctor Hicks and his wife and maybe some other family members were buried right next to the mausoleum and it was thought that there was some like birth records. Some type of paperwork of the Hicks of Doctor Hicks in the mausoleum and so they had originally got a search warrant for it back in nineteen ninety seven when this whole thing broke open but they only could open the doors they could not get inside the crips and so in the show because Sally I guess was the only remaining family member. She has the right to open the Access. Yes so she went in there and they didn't find anything except the search warrant in the crypt. Yeah that was weird. Because like she like. I remember the taped to the door. And that's pretty typical for a search warrant Lincoln Emory place. It's just taped to the door. And like how did end up inside? Yeah if they weren't able to get into the crypts than how did it ended up inside the crypt? Yeah I think some they were like kind of trying to imply that like maybe they were in there again and they took whatever was in there because there was literally nothing in there and then she shut down by the Tennessee police. That was interesting it was. Yeah but I I mean I don't really know it doesn't really seem like I don't think of kept record exactly. That's what I'm saying. Do cared well. You did nothing in an official capacity. Why would he do birth records that? I think that you can get caused exactly right. This lady had this baby is sold for one thousand dollars. Yeah I would. I would think that he would prefer not have any birth records just so there's no way to tie it. Altogether so yeah. I wasn't surprised that they didn't find anything but I thought it was. It was fun breaking into the mausoleum. Oh Yeah it was just. Those locksmith. Dudes had the best time into it. This is a really hard luck. Holdouts pending this is strong medal. It's been trying to get everyone impressed by them. Opening it was cute. God I had to lock pick a cabinet drawer at work once because we accidentally locked the keys inside of it and I don't know how and we picked it with like a nail file in a bobby pin and it took us like an hour and a half but it did. It felt so accomplished I had to pick a door wants because and I still have to this day. Have no idea how this happened. But somehow I think I was in the shower and Willow. Kinda likes to be with me wherever I go so she kinda just hangs out in the bathroom in the shower and exactly and somehow I close the door and she got locked in and I don't know how she got locked in but she was literally locked in the bathroom all alone for like an hour and had to pick at the door for like an hour. I was out anyway. It was all she was just like children the bathroom for an hour by yourself areas. And you can't tell you know exactly so. Yeah that's my lock pick story. It's not nearly as cool as the mausoleum one. Yeah but yeah. I had no idea that I've never seen. Tlc Show where they dug up a body and broke into a Muslim. I had no idea we were going to be doing that stuff when when I signed up for this but the closest thing to do the body I've ever seen on. Tlc was when they found like a dead raccoon and orders. Yeah and I don't. Yeah that's not nearly as fun. It's not. It's not that this is fun but it's it's cool. It's really interesting. It's fine in the interesting way like exactly. It's a mind puzzle so okay I have to talk about Cindy and Cindy was the one who knew her mom Lisa right and it has been gotten estranged again which you know is fair questions answered. I can understand why you wouldn't have a relationship with family But that whole thing was kind of wild and felt very TLC but her dad was called. Pickles I out I I. I loved that. Yeah she was like. Oh yeah lead and pickles. That's my my OTP RIGHT. Like she turns anything else does pickles. His name was John but he went by pickles. Yeah I would not be at all surprised to know that his name was pickles. I wish it were hope it is. I'M GONNA GO ANCESTRY DOT COM it. Yes figure out. Pickles is true identity man. This is like the opposite of one of my greatest fear is when I did. My Dad was that like I was afraid. Oh No what if? I'm not actually related to the people I think are related to and now but like this is like the opposite where you want. You want to know like that. I don't I don't know it's kind of a up. I don't know I'm not really sure where I was going to bed now. Yeah I feel like the just. There's a lot of emotions that go behind the DNA stuff. I've never got my DNA testing my brother. And that's close enough. So Barry White am related to my cousin. That's yeah it was. I was glad to hear that up related to my cousin. I recently had a cousin. Don't didn't know of contact me through ancestry. Dna and she lives in San Francisco. We're friends on facebook now. That's kind of cool. Yeah cousin a cousin is cool. Because it's not like a sister that would raise a lot of questions but the cousin is like it's I could fuck with some more cousins. Yeah like just it. It gives me more branches to research. Because you know those kind of only so far you can go janey logically most the time unless you had somebody in the family who was like crazy about genealogy so like you can usually get to like the eighteen hundreds the issue and then you just have to keep branching out like oh who did they marry. And who their parents and drunkenness of separation myself to Kevin Bacon yes. That's probably true camping that far. No we can't be that far anyway. Stephen Let's talk about Steven Steven and his lovely beard. Beard was so amazing and I just felt so on him because he I did too. 'cause like this is the only argument that I have for like legal adoption is that they do put through the ringer to see if you actually are wanting a child and got to be a decent parent and provide for the child. Yeah because his parents his adoptive parents were so cruel Heen to have and like would like actively lied about his like biology just so like to throw him off track and that is like so evil yeah and they just kept telling him that he was adopted and that it wasn't you know like I don't know they were just into him and he's like Oh scratching fight and he said that a couple times and I was. I bet he had a real rough time growing up. I yeah and I can't imagine not only that but then just having so many questions about where you came from I just. He's I feel so bad for him but I'm so glad he got some family. Yes I am. Also he's only eight years older than my mom and that's shocking. Because my mom does not look like Steven Steven has been rode hard and put up wet. Yeah I think Steven Steven looks that as Stephen looks like his life was hard and we know that it was so quickly but and he really gave me like the whole vibe. I guess for the whole rest of the episodes for me when he was like. We're only a sick as the secrets we keep in. That's why he liked. Doctor Hicks died early. That's why all that stuff so do you think. What do you think happened to his twin? Do you think there was a twin? I don't know it's so hard to I. Don't know like maybe his twin was just given away and died or you know it was pretty common back in the day to have only one twin live through childbirth. Right exactly especially if like in the circumstances where it seemed like he was born not the greatest care so I would not surprise me at all to just find out that the baby was stillborn or died really soon after birth. What if what if his parents got both babies only one lived. That can happen and I would hate to think about that. I'm so sorry I didn't mean to put you. Don't think about it. We're not in quarantine to sitting here thoughts or anything. I was really happy though that it seems like Stephen has a daughter who was with him lot. It seems like she's really supportive and really there for him so at least she had at least even has that now. I mean obviously doesn't make up for his horrible childhood but at least he has somebody there from now and I mean his wife showed up to all the things she just didn't really ever talk to the which was so it so like he has a supportive family that he's created for himself which gives me hope for him. Yes I felt so bad for him so I just hope he enjoys the rest of his life. Yeah I think it'll be nice for him and Kathy to bond. Yes yeah weird. Yeah this just crazy and it just feel like every time. A question was answered like eight. Mar Questions. Came up So in the Stephen Section this guy last thing I have to say about it is I'm really glad that he got to meet Cathy. And like there was no other like relative or whatever that they found because Cathy was dislike so amped and excited to have a brother and she didn't have because she didn't know he existed. There was no like prior resentment or guilt or like anything that comes with a lot of these relationships like if I had found his parents and leg why did you give me up or did you think I was dead or whatever right lake goes back to the finding out you have a cousin thing in this situation like the best situation is to find out. You have another sibling. That just didn't know that you existed. Yeah it's like good news. This person that you thought died in childbirth is in fact alive and they have had a life a life. Yeah so okay do you. Did you recognize Chris? Jacobs are the other lady the lady on here from anything because they looked so familiar from correct. I feel like I the lady I was trying to place who she was but I have no way. Maybe I feel like the only thing I can think of is. Maybe they've been on like some. Tlc reunions that I've seen or something let's see. Her name is Lisa joyner. She is married to Jon Cryer. But after the baby girl she started co hosting long lost family with Chris. Jacobs on TLC okay. I didn't really watch that. Maybe I've seen the previews of it of stuff. I've heard of it my mom Joe so yeah I've definitely heard of that one. I have to watch some of that. 'cause you know how much I love? Ancestry Bullshit Yeah. Yeah which I remember. I remember seeing Previews for this When it was aired last year on. Tlc But. I don't know I had no idea that it was about this. I thought it was just about like finding adoptive parents which is fine but I just wasn't something I was really wanting to watch so I had no idea that this was actually about this. Whole Hicks. Clinic thing with nuts. Yeah I thought this was about that fertility doctor. That just used his sperm. That's what I initially thought it was about him. I had thought that too because that was in the news pretty recently. That was much more. Recent News Story. So that brings us up to episode three Which was basically where we got all the results and they started getting all stuff from DNA back and right. I guess I have to preface this with the fact that a lot of my family is from the deep South Right and there are a lot of branches that aren't super spread out my family tree but it comes with the territory. I I relate to that to the fact that all of them had light is red hair and webbed feet. They have to be related to each other somehow. Yeah that's a whole lot of recessive genes. That so for yeah. I think for that many people around the same age to be sharing that many recessive genes there has to be some some overlap in the gene pool there. Yeah I mean it's a small town so I think that probably has a lot to do with it but like they have to some of them had related like some cousins or something right and like if you think about it like how long the Hicks Clinic operated like you know that there were repeat customers and you know that there were guys who were impregnating multiple people at the time so there has to be some sort of relation between a lot of these people. I would assume yeah. I can't imagine West Virginia also apparently outside of Ireland has the highest concentration of red heads and I think that probably the same things like. It's not incest necessarily but the gene pools are small and like I live in a town of five hundred. You're going to end up cousin to pretty much. Everybody right and a lot of people who live in small towns. Don't really ever leave those small towns and so they don't really interact with people outside the small towns very often so that's who they procreate with procreation procreation and now exhumation which we already kind of talked hell. Yes the the two ends of the spectrum. I suppose Um the doctors were great. They were awesome. They were so I loved how knowledgeable they were but they were also just like sweet and funny and they were just such bad asses and and they were like so cheery despite the fact that they were going to basically like open up stinky human soup and leg right. There were just unfloppable. Yeah and they were talking about. How like you never come back once. You smell like dead people and there's like yeah it's just you never forget it okay. It's a badge of honor knows the smell of death. I am thankful that I do not know that smell because it's not a good smell good smell at all. I'm sure yeah all right. I think that's all we have to say about this today so you can find us at TV literate on twitter Instagram facebook and patron if you want to become our first patriots supporter if you have any suggestions of what we should watch talk about. Tweet US instagram us. We're always there. I am Megan and I am Jillian and we are TV literate.