Steven Ruiz joins us to talk about how the Panthers failed Cam Newton


The crazy part by boyfriend keeps going back and ordering eggs and getting into fistfights with the same cook. And she's his critics this. There's one part where she's like. I've suggested we go to a different restaurant even a different waffle house and he refuses like He. He must go to that specific waffle house fist. Fight the cook there like Peter and the chicken from family. When you think about it it is funny. Just imagine being in Waffle House and be like. Hey man these eggs are not right. I ordered over easy. And they're like well done and then he's like okay. I got you bro. And he brings you scrambled eggs. And then she's like he brings him a piece of toes with a hole cut in it and like a hard boiled egg in the Middle. Wake like it just keeps escalating. How ridiculous it is behind. It just gave a chicken like not even so funny if he did that. Just a just a chicken. Free tickets talks down food. Hello and welcome to keep sounding podcast as always this is. Brian joined by Brad and John. Brad how're you doing on this fine evening? I am doing great Brian. Thank you for asking. Yeah NO PROBLEM. It makes me feel good that you ask how I'm doing. I always want to check in especially in these times. It makes me feel special. I'm John How are you I'm doing? I'm doing wonderful Brian Good. I'm glad so for this particular episode. We have a special guest. We have Steven Rue us at these Stephen released from four the win USA Today on to talk about Cam. Newton Stephen Are you doing? I'm I'm not doing well. You're not doing just wanted to say that the balance doing wonderful realistic. We're in court scene. Guys just podcast is happy so they have this funny little bit where they decide to They just do a disingenuous. I'm doing great. That's been going on for weeks now. So don't worry it's fine. So for this special edition of the keep sounding podcast. I know there are a lot of panthers fans out there. Who after the draft and everything? Neither were finally done. We know who the panthers draft picks are for the most part. The roster's fleshed out aside from free agents. That may or may not get signed depending on how things go in the off season. They kind of just want to move on from the whole Cam. Newton drama well. Guess what we don't so I brought I love it. I should say we should clarify that. Some of US don't some of US. Don't so steven actually tweeted about something. Said it was a specific quote. Tweet said what could you talk about for thirty minutes straight with no prep it all. And he said how the Panthers Failed Cam Newton and that resonated with me so I was like. Hey come on the show and talk to us about that. So okay so Stephen. You've got thirty minutes. Let's go I the only one talking to sit here. Mike is our planes and video games. In the Ron Rivera. Press conference when he made the comment about the deems. Everyone finishing five hundred. I'll just play that God. Analytics were so looks. Good that one. Yeah I want to say before. We go further into this. I've been watching Recordings of my recordings on my DVR NFL red zone. When I have nothing else on. Tv to watch. And I don't know if it's the bitterness or the fact that Ron has gone it's like A. You can see things with more clarity because you don't have any of that. Hope for optimism or whatever types him because he coach of your team but watching some of these vendors games of the decisions and some of that stuff. It's like why did we not like? Why do we put that for so long like this is really bad? Yeah like kicking kicking a field goal just to avoid a shutout when you by like twenty. I just saw that. I was watching whatever week. That was where they're losing to the Falcons like twenty to nothing and it was the fourth quarter and kicked a field goal in like four thousand four. Because it's like all right now. We've got a point like yeah. You're still down three scores. Good job but hey we didn't get shut out but didn't get shut out. Tom Play the worst quarterback game in the history of football outsiders but stuff like that. The Cam Newton. So we're going to get into a Christian. Mccaffrey taking ninety nine. Percents of snaps as a running back. The cringing announcers calling him riverboat Ron. When he's done when he does things like punt from the thirty five yard line and then he has the audacity to say no I'm analytical Ron. I ever did neither analytical nor are you a gambler yeah but this is the show about Steven Steven. What what would you say? Is your biggest like reason. The Panthers Failed Cam Newton. I mean I didn't even put it on there. I think you gotta put up. The office. Just never really built around him. Beat correct me if I'm wrong. The only off at the players they draft in the first round while he was there was it Kelvin. Benjamin Dj more and Christian. Mccaffrey yes something like that. And he only played one year with Jay. Moore won half a year healthy first McCaffrey. I mean he's a great player but still running back in the first the top. Ten We Kelvin. Benjamin was only in the league. Basically 'cause camping carried them to relevant the right when he left him. He's I don't he's not in the league anymore so that didn't really turn out. Well either. The drafting of a running back. Does it really help your quarterback all that much you help your quarterback with receivers and pass catches in Offensive Linemen? Which the pay absolutely nothing with the offensive line. While he was here. It also did help that Christian McCaffrey. We use was used sparingly in his rookie year despite literally everybody who has ever watched football game looking at him and being like this kid is good fat but he's had a lot. Cheney's run John Stewart aren't yet we didn't see. We didn't see cam in like a good a well-designed offense until two thousand eighteen and we only got a half a year so I would also say the next thing on the list is sticking with for as long as he did when there is like so much evidence that he was not a good coach and they needed to do to move on stubborn Mike throughout his tenure and Carolina that Kinda permeated through the whole team though. It wasn't just Mike Shula just about every single coordinator or position coach. We had as someone who has close personal friends with Ron Rivera. A whether or not they they were worthy of the job or not like Richard Rogers. He has been a tight ends coach a secondary coach a special teams coordinator. He's terrible at all of those things but we kept him because he was literally because he was teammates with Ron Rivera. At cal my even Eric Eric Washington. I don't think he have been a defensive coordinator evident. How Much Sean? Mcdermott had a impact on that defense. After he left like right when he left it went downhill. It it's pretty easy to say. Now in Hindsight Sean. Mcdermott is the reason why why. Rivera even has the reputation he does as a defensive mind. Yes it's like. He was too scared to go. Hire hire new. People like Inter actually interview people for Jobs Win. Coordinators got poached from. This building is the closest to that job already. We'll just give them under role. Just I think the thing about for me because you touched on it that me most mad about the career arc of candidates so far is that he spent what six years with Mike Shula as offensive coordinator is that. How long was I thinks? Oh five or six thousand thirteen to two thousand team. So about five hundred eighty. Oh not replacing was really. I thought was the biggest mistake of his. Like in terms of hiring coaches put on him not defense. Shula over even the dogs matter on very yes in the dog's name Ski Way. Just a little fun fact one of them but yes Mike. Shula does replacing Robertson Ski. Who I think was for the most part pretty good with Mike. Shula who again? I don't know how tolerate that for as long as we did. I guess the two thousand fifteen season right in the middle of it or came just kind of carry the team really kind of softened how bad it was around that year pretty much but having Mike Shula as the majority of Cam Newton's career to this point S. his offensive coordinator is such a disservice to not just can't do it but I think everybody painters fans. Nfl FANS football fans. Just everybody go ahead. Stephen go ahead. Housing to fan bases are usually hard on their offense coordinator. Whether it's Jim it or not but like Nash. About Shoo football people on E. She wasn't just panthers fans. It was pretty much everyone that watches football football teams. Fans hate their offense coordinator. I think both Gordon's especially their offense coordinator because it's a very you know. Every result every negative result gets remembered more than the positive results. But Yeah Mike Shula. I don't think there's any defense for Shula being a good offensive coordinator. There were many games they could have won even with Cam Newton with half an arm in two thousand eighteen where bad play calls fucked them and I think norv Turner. He's an upgrade over my shoe of it. I think it was upgrading from the one of the worst office of Rangers in the League to up to a below average office coordinator. Just just because he's outdated and some of the decision making was so predictable and stubborn. I think we talked about it. A Lot. In Twenty nineteen the amount of times where we try to go heavy formation and right up the middle on short yardage situations despite the fact that it never worked it things like that and I know it was not as an internal again. was basically forced into resigning with the Vikings two years earlier. Did back then pure saying these out. It wasn't like they weren't bringing like offense. We saw the race even know in twenty news. This like Oh we're going to Christian McCaffrey. Let run a sniper out like yeah. You should have been doing that. The whole time just to Christian McCaffrey. Who got a bunch of catches and stuff so but like he was used as a check down out of the backfield and it was never really utilizes a receiver or as a weapon as much as he should have been and it was just. It was exactly what you'd expect if you take a guy that was really good at his job. Twenty five years ago and give them the same job. Now it's like you have. Your ideas are really innovative based on. You can't stale now. Yeah part of it is that Rob Sheds inskeep brought him a lot of norv Turner concepts to Carolina. When I came in so then I guess in Ron Rivera's mind it made sense to have Mike. Shula come in and continue those and then then they just brought in North Turner offer rather than rather than having new offense or try. Try something new. They were just going to continue to use those concepts which in practice might make sense right it. It just kind of proved that didn't really work long term unless Cam Newton was playing like the best player in the League which you can keep the often somewhat consistent without just hiring. Another of your old buddies. That hasn't done well at that job for decades. Yeah I mean Cam made a lot of highlights the things when they brought in Shula he didn't really have the same. Coaching background is to see like I don't know if you guys remember. But like the talk around. When he took over was that they were going to shorter passes and make things easier on Cam when they were throwing deep allow out and I think I'm pretty sure she was. Background is in the West Coast offense so it was a different system. They just it's like they brought in a different guy to coach the same often and it was predictably a mess. Yeah like Hey Mike I know. This is your specialty. But we don't want you to coach that you're just here because you're you just read. Us giving it his job. Because you're already here so it's like my trying you dad's famous because my show has also never really been successful anywhere. He's gone belly was win. At how? How hard is it to win it Alabama? And he couldn't even do it so he he was in office coordinator for the buccaneers. Guess too late night again is a massive gaps. Yeah if to hazard from one thousand nine hundred sixty nine hundred ninety nine for fifteen years later will maybe. You'll be better. But their offense under Mike Shula was in yards per game was twenty eight. Twenty Nine Twenty Second Twentieth and finished in scoring. There's no better than eighteenth and we're like this guy. I think this guy's got it now. It's pretty telling that when he wants to the giants he wasn't allowed to call plays after he left very. That was very funny decision. Yeah what's your offensive coordinator but you don't do your job The part of your job. That's most forward-facing I mean we're laughing at the Patriots team. Let him call the point. I know yes I know right thing didn't want yes but the people involved in that decision aren't here anymore and they can't hurt us anymore. So we can. We can laugh at that too but yeah letting my call the place was like could you imagine I can be around Rivera. I live in Washington. Dc near him again. I can't be me. What do you get back to the canes that I want to hear what you or your expectations are Ron Rivera in Washington? Like he'll be better than what they've had but not great. It's a low bar. I think he's the type of coach in theory that with team that's rebuilding just because he kinda didn't of course he doesn't have Cam Newton in that made his job so much easier. I would not be surprised if it's a disaster. Didn't his head coach now earnings. Weren't that inspiring like Jack Del. Rio which is kind of interesting to do in twenty twenty then the higher attorney Classroom of the panthers and I am anything I don't think he proved his worthy of an offensive coordinator job. Either thought it was so funny that Washington apparently had a you know they've had the kind of the what's it called pipeline of office of coordinators. Like Sean mcvay and Kyle Shanahan in that and apparently there was another guy who was looked at the similar way in Ron. Like get him. Outta here. I gotTA bring in Old Buddy Scott. Turner run the offense. Yeah I forgot about that would take off the back so the very it was another stubborn hired by Rivera Kit rid of they added place already and bringing his own guy who doesn't really have a track record of being offense coordinator all it was like his last two years in Carolina. Starting with when cams shoulder started to go bad on them it seemed to turn into a train wreck and then he gets hired by Washington and instead of using that as a chance to like start clean and bringing a new staff. You've just brought every body of the train wreck in Carolina and early. The working with new. I think the reason why he has his job like Washington probably looked at him and look what he did with this former first pick. He'd made him into a star at future. Mvp but that's not really what happened. If any he's he's the reason why dotting on any anymore. The lead can't play hurt. A bunch of times started in two thousand fourteen when ended up making the playoffs but cam was like beat up any. I think he took like eight sacks in Monday night game against the eagles. And you just tell that he should not be playing anymore and they kept pushing. I mean they got a playoff went out of it but I don't. I still don't think it was worth Lang Cam. Newton the rest of that season. I think that was the season he he got in a car accident two. We broke his back or no. Yeah he like Boca Brunner's back or whatever was that was this. He broke his back into the Patriots. The same season we got in the car accident. I think so yes. There was two thousand. Eighteen is the greatest season in team. History there's a lot of That's a pretty frequently recurring trend with whole leading players. Play when they shouldn't be playing 'cause there to hurt. You mean this past season when when Cam Newton literally and they still let him play against the buccaneers. He's as I do is fine. I mean yeah. He couldn't run but he said he was so we thought he was. Okay yes Stephen. There was a bit of a tangent that one of our writers went off on about but essentially boil down to that. Like Cam couldn't run but he didn't really like tell anyone. But Ron didn't go to him and say you run a forty yard dash me quick like just didn't do that before before the the the buccaneers game after suffering. At least that we knew at the time some kind of foot injury just didn't happen there was like oh well he says findings fine. No big deal trotted out there. That that's what happened in two thousand fourteen to quote gettleman and Rivera saying like cams a competitor and he's GonNa WanNa come off the field. That's exactly the bomb you're going to have to take command and tell them you're not playing. He made years later like that. Your Dad had you. Don't learn from your mistakes and I don't think Ron Rivera. Ever learned from his mistakes starts on fourth and one every once in Ohio conservative after burn of so many times early in his career. He always did that. Job was on the line when like there was no other option like when he was safe he was not going for it on fourth in one unless it was like deep in opposing territory. Spite having a quarterback ever that time remember that time when it was like fourth and inches from like the fifty maybe somewhere around midfield it was early in the game it was just. It was a low leverage situation. It's just a very easy to God. Just go for it. What he had to lose and CAM. Newton had team off the field because Ron rare. Shana pundits in the fifty on fourth and inches or quarter of a tie game. He had the offense freaking out about it. Like kicking punting unit off the field called time out so they could call play and three sure they picked it up. Like go out shocking. That with Cam Newton you can pick up a four inches from midfield that one thing that always made me mad about Ron. Not going forward is not like I could understand it. If we had like will greer quarterback. Who's awful at quarterback sneaks or whatever insert terrible quarterback here you know Mitch Trubisky or whatever Shout out all my bears fans there but he had cam. Newton like factually one of the best fourth in short quarterbacks in the history of the League and he would still not do. It was just so damn frustrating buck. You're one the the worst I ever was. I think. Two thousand twelve against the Falcons win. I think they were. It was fourth one. They could iced the game with the first down and then they ended up. I don't they punched or kicked a field goal miss and then that was the I think it was roddy white in not the more was the safety overnight. Nakimora Rookie Nakimora Aka. The next had read you. Y'All hate on Colin Jones. Bet remember he wasn't her rookie. Nakimora right just remember that. That's what I'm here for. I boost Colin Jones and I boost Brenton Bersin. That is my brand. Are you related to Jerry? Richardson on that. I am not but there is a there is a conspiracy theory out there versus. It's not a conspiracy theory. Allegedly Real Quick Stephen. Have you have you seen that? In depth it goes deeper than just. Brenton Bersin stuck around for a long time Atlanta WOFFORD. No I haven't seen my only thing is the Wofford thing I learned today. Brian Note Jerry. Richardson was neighbors with Brenton Bersin parents and then they split I think ensure and shortly afterwards she was pregnant and by shortly afterwards we need like less than a year later. Brenton Bersin was born. Well Yeah it was like. They split around the time that she would have been known she was pregnant. So yeah so people maybe they. They split because she add it was. Yeah this is. This is getting out of out of hand but yes that was. The timing was suspicious with them being neighbors and stuff. I'm guessing jeans Friday when a little too far my have that we're going to be an interesting side like Panton just put in the. I thought about a Britain Person Conspiracy Theory. I want an ESPN thirty thirty on the Britain. Bursts Injury Richardson paternity even. If it's just one of them's like fifteen minutes short series that they do I want I want. Espn TO GET JEREMY SHOP to get to the bottom of this. No you need like a Netflix. True crime type documentary on it Panther King. I mean I'm sure his brother knows and things. His brother follows me on instagram twitter. By the way just so you guys like. Brian's biggest achievement is lives it puts on his resume and everything from still trying to get. I'm still trying to get Brenton to follow me. I think he was created the me. He doesn't want to do it. You had a Brian's Lincoln page. He's got like a note followed by Britain on social media so speaking of Brenton Bersin though. That's another thing about how the panthers failed came to his his twenty seventeen season. God is wide world wide. Receiver he ever had was Steve Smith and they ran him out of town. Thirty five will but he was still better than anybody else they had. Yeah I mean before you got all tumour. Steve Smith was still playing at a top level for that one year and then he got hurt. But I mean we're talking about they provided Cam Newton with Kelvin. Benjamin Devin funchess. Ted ginn Brenton Bersin Philly Brown Jericho Koch Corpse Leggate a Jira to to who else have we had it wide receiver. Dj More doesn't really count because we drafted him two years ago jared. He didn't make the team though he doesn't go so here. We'll go this year by year. We had a keen knicks difficult. We had a keen next for you so we had the number one. Everyone got excited about US Stephen Hill. Oh my God the jets guy. The guy that was. Hi Dan I was there with. Uber's he tore his ACL. That's still one of the most nightmares things I've ever heard. Like you could hear that dude scream from like five hundred yards. Away was so bad. So the panthers had Greg Olsen for all Cam Newton's time here which is good Africa tight end but his top three wide receivers as a rookie And a lot of teams when they draft a quarterback like to surround them with weapons. Like the Bengals this year draft Joe Borough and then they drafted named T. Higgins right. Yeah so it's IT'S. It's an injury luck they'd have to Hilton in the same draft and some other stuff like that but too yeah. I think. Kobe cleaners correct as well. Sound look into the panthers in two thousand and eleven. What was their second pit? What was their second. Oh we traded away. That's right the two thousand eleven draft other than Cam. What's an absolute shot Joe? Yeah while it's going to look and see like no one other than Cam and cam isn't right now but no other player. We drafted in two thousand. Eleven is still in the league that was drafted Cam. And then we drafted defensive tackles Siani a fool and Tara Maclean and then bring up Hogan so this trade defence. Yeah after that. So that Cam. Newton comes in as a rookie with his top throughout receivers. Being Steve Smith Lega do and Brandon lavelle. He still had a Jeremy shockey as well as Jerry. Yes Jamie Shawki. We'll give a little bit of that. But the Jack. He's gone soon. Get Steve Year. Jeremy shockey it wasn't Prime Jeremy shockey. So you've got old St Smith's in it brandon. Lavelle is right Assira number two and then Louis Murphy was wide receiver number three in your to. I totally forgot Louis. Murphy I too. I forgot about him. He was like super promising to thought. I don't remember him either. He was. I'm looking at this is by targets. Let's see have desperate panthers fans word because I think he got cut by the raiders who oversees. He's Kinda Fast Steve Smith Brandon. The fell Ted Ginn in twenty thirteen when we had a really good team like all of the years. Haven't passing when you know. Steve Smith is aging out of the League and eventually going to run out of town and you never thought to like. Let's put somebody young. That's not brandon. The fell another thing about two thousand thirteen real quick to. They only used the same like five skill position players the entire season. They never had like a a wide receiver. Four or five on the field. It was always the same three guys telling us the wide receiver. Four and five Brad. I I did forget about that too and I. It didn't really get any better. I guess it got a little better with North Turner but as long as Mike Shula was here. It was it was like the top receivers like receiver number four and five only played one two or were hurt. Yeah which I understand getting your best players on the field but you would think to. Have you know various skill? Setzer fresh legs. They're just rotations. Morale of your team will know something. Brennan Ziltser had ninety yards and game of the season. You know just get some guys out there. See what they banned. The two thousand fourteen might be worse than might be up. There with. Seventeen thousand was pretty bad. That's when Britain Bersin really started getting snapped. That was when the mean started my friend because I wrote an article about how he was. I felt he was going to make team. I got flamed by a bunch of panthers fans because so and so other random wide receiver from Clemson was on the team and was an undrafted. Free agent was going. GonNa make it in Brenton. Bersin made it God. Damnit he's stuck around. He's a coach in the in the receivers room. Yes got a lot of grit. I never understood why he got so much hate. I really you know. Brian's Nima side it's not like anybody expected him to be. You know fucking Jerry Rice or anything but in Panthers Old Panthers Fans Panthers. He fumbled the punt in the cardinals. Game is the only reason the game was even relatively close. But he didn't he didn't fumble the punt he'd slid into it and didn't even hit him in the face mask. Yeah he didn't actually fumble it slick possession. He slid into the pun holding his hand. Kind of touching it. But yes I understand. You know if you draft a quarterback and especially given that. They traded their second round pick the year before for what was was that that would have been for our money Edwards. That same jeff is causing. Because you'd have to Jimmy Clausen the year before your money Edwards on the Dalai and the thing is they didn't know they were going to be that terrible and getting on tech and so that's what people they get mad about that trade because they use hindsight. We traded the first pick in the second round no didn't traded our second round pick. We did not know it would be number thirty three overall and if it makes anybody feel any better the patriots took Roz dowling with that pick. So it's not like they took Tom Brady but either way. So I understand like if you can't you know police in that first off season was a new quarterback but it took them until the twenty fourteen draft to take Kelvin. Benjamin and that's only because they completely gutted their wide receiver room because they had no cap space to resign anybody. Yeah and then you draft Kelvin. Benjamin because of the really helped Hollywood's the sound logic that Cam Newton throws high so we just give somebody taller. He'll be more accurate. Act that you cannot teach six five to forty yes. It's amazing to me that was thought to be. The solution is just like we'll give them someone taller. He'd six five to twenty either. Wasn't dropping down but why not just like what if we just got him somebody that could get open and then he would have easier throws to make like no you gotta give them the. Tall Guy and we'll guy so have tall slow guys. That can't get open. Expect candidate to be more accurate. Lame when he's not sound is very sound and then until the very end with maybe we should get people that can get open and by then canyons breaking down because they're let him play through a litany of injuries. Hey everyone this is Carissa editor at large of recode and I'm Scott Galloway professor of nyu Stern School of business. We host the twice-weekly pivot podcast. Where you break down all the news in Tech Media and business and anything else that we fancy we want to talk about. The news is moving faster than ever. And we're here to bring some analysis context sanity and occasional levity to a lot of sanity around here anyways to the covert Nineteen News. An economy. Keira aren't listen Scott. Listen we don't WanNA bring levity to cope in nineteen. We think it's a very serious crisis. We want. Give people insight and other ways to cope with in nineteen. 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Stay on top of it all by listening to pivot with garrison and Scott Gallery. Every Tuesday and Friday. Subscribe on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. Is there anything Stephen Though? We have not touched on yet. I was GONNA ask Stephen. Because he's an unbiased outside observers. Did we talk start? What was that? I was going to say we didn't bring up the tie yet tiger for times pack. But I mean this this Derek Anderson throwing interception on that one place that tie gate. I thought you were the Bena. Twenty fourteen can't do not wearing a tie. I'm not wearing a tie. And then not starting in the first place a pick six. Yeah Right Ron game. By the way was that was a very good performance by Cam Newton game. Although I don't even remember what happened at the end I remember the bengals. Kicker missed a field goal. Both KANTER's panther believes that win right. That's what it was the bengals every chance to win the game prior to The the end of the fourth quarter as well. I'm a fucked up so it was just a teams. Did like both teams tried to lose. And couldn't it was a war of a lack of attrition? Was this out. Baird twisted ankles twist in Greg Olson Ankle twists and Cam Newton's ankle my God Serano Vera Benches Cam Newton for not wearing a tie which I don't know I'm not in touch with other teams. It is it common for NFL teams to have a dress code where teams are players. Have to wear a tie on the bus to row James or whatever it was. We've heard not something I've ever heard of before or since. Yeah Yeah. I've heard people being Benjamin for bench for more egregious things than that like being late or something but we're not wearing a tie seems kind of trivial to me and especially because he was dry. I was just about to say that. It's one thing if he shows up in in like a fuck you t shirt with torn like bought like gym shorts or something like he looks like he just rolled out of bed but he was. He was dressed nice. He just didn't have on a tie and a suit jacket or support coast. He was wearing a sport coat and like a sweater vest and a collared shirt. I mean frankly. He was dressed much better than he dresses now. But you know just because he wasn't wearing a necktie it's a stupid rule especially because it was like what was the situation for not wearing a tie. But where was he not wearing the tie on the bus or the plane? Whatever they traveled he was was just somewhere in transit and transit. Yeah it was either the team bus from the hotel to the state to the stadium or on the plane to Seattle. I don't remember which it was but but it was the team travel and wasn't that a Sunday night game. Yes it was a prime night game wasting all day for Sunday night and in the first thing is that Derek Anderson throws that mother fucking interception. I will say it wasn't a pick six. I got returned to the eight. Okay okay. I wasn't even really wasn't Anderson Fall Right. I Remember Eight. Tober right in hands and landed in the hands of the D. But it's just a perfect start because yes yes yes in. Primetime and I. I can't think of a single or time. This has happened where team starting quarterback gets bench to start a game for you know an off the field reason especially because Kim to and also made a comment that nobody really talks about where he said. He thought the outfit was appropriate. Because he's worn something like that in the past. Which makes it sound. Like Ron Verges decided like you know what nothing this now. There's no tie having nonsense we're going to. We're going to send a message input Derek Anderson. Start the game on Sunday night. Football like that. That'll really make your reputation. Look good against one of the best defense is in league in one of the hardest place to play. Yeah in Seattle in Seattle comes into the game seven three and one. You're season is not going. Well they were doing it like in Cincinnati last year on thing and then you lose forty. Two seven yeah. I'll tell you teach your franchise quarterback to where I can't remember but I think that was one of the few times I've written the post game report in like the third quarter and I've just said hey this is over. Y'All have a good one. I'm going to bed because it was out of hand by that point. Yeah Trevan Boyfriend got snaps for the seahawks. Fourth quarter like. They ran for eight yards a carry. It was just. It's one of those things where you're like embarrassed to be a fan team like I can't go out in public after this cons. Ross felt that way but that game was one of those times. What is they stephen? I don't even remember watching the second half of that. I'm pretty sure I turned it off early. And I don't. I don't usually turn off Panthers Games. I don't blame you especially on a Sunday night where it's like you know what? I could just go to bed. Yeah Yeah it was total waste of time and panthers fans get mad now when we don't get Primetime Games on the schedule they're like we don't get prime-time get well because we do shit like that when we do. That's why we don't. We deserve to play at one o'clock on Sunday every week. That's where everything's safe. Yes plus I don't have to stay up till midnight. I guess the last thing I wanted to discuss so Stevens tweet just because I'm sure we'll bring more stuff up with that would you? What other thing we. We didn't talk about yet was Cam Getting blamed for the panthers losing the Super Bowl. Because he didn't dive on a fumble that the broncos are pretty much already recovered. God that gift. Just the bane of my existence. I me it every watched that roll a couple times like all twenty two of it. I still maintain a Cam Newton to not play poorly like eating it rate. He played okay but I thought he played fine. He was not alert by. You'd like he could best player on offense. Yeah couldn't help that Jonathan Stewart got hurt and couldn't help that Mike. Tolbert fumbled the ball twice and he had only fumbled it three times all year if you include the Super Bowl I mean that's not camps fall and it's also not camps fault that the referee's got Jericho Khatri's play wrong or that. The field was so horrible. Horrible net. Mike lower is literally on skates at times. Trying to block demarcus ware. Yes I'd hate. That made the argument that none of none of camps turnovers I think he ended up having three turnovers. None of them were his fault. Like the intercept and bounced off. Ted Kuenz hands which I mean. That's the thing does but that was in the red zone too and then there was the drop in the red zone by. I think it was caught on the sideline male ends up missing. Vehicle is just a frustrating game to watch. That was actually my first week writing at for the land and nobody knew I was panthers fans and they were all rooting. They're all rooting for the broncos. And I was just sitting there like quite. I was under the assumption that I was supposed to be unbiased. And I couldn't like reveal that it was the panthers fan. I was dying inside as they were on profit. If it really was a game of the panthers during the regular season went wrong but yeah the two and then you talked about the intersection. The fumbles both just completely unblocked defenders. Right yeah I was the blindside as long as yeah right after the Khatri play. Which if if the referees make the correct call and they give Khatri catch and he's down and then the next play is still the fumble. They probably don't return for a touchdown and our defense was playing so well. I genuinely think they don't score. They are they probably settle for a field goal. And it's a completely different game. I don't think about Kony ealy having a hall of fame performance net. Anything big ten for the rest of the read getting traded to the Patriots so the pants can move up eight spots in the draft and it turned that'd be a great trade for the Panthers of eight spots. Yeah I'm looking. I'm watching any of the Patriots Roster nope on the on the first fumble. Mike Rimmer is basically just access a tackling dummy for. I can't tell you it is there. Isn't it might be now's Miller. Is It von Miller? I didn't demarcus ware. Recover it but basically Mike rimmer is does almost nothing slowdown me Jackson. Michael Jackson okay. Yeah I've honestly I've drank that game away. Am I? Grammar is let's von Miller Basdeo uncontested into the backfield and he rip the ball away from from Cam Newton and he recovered for a touchdown. There's actually goes. Ted Gins hands and gets intercepted over fumbled one. He took one of them only field. Yeah those are his only two. Fumbles as a panther in his career. Yeah he played it to the right. Perfect time to do it. And in the other the other fumble was Mike Rumors got beat again and Cam just got ahead his hand as he was throwing it that was late in the game. Right it was four minutes left here. Everybody were trying to make the comeback. Yeah that pretty much sealed it and people like to show the the the Jif of him backing off of the fumble when he starts to step away demarcus. Ware has his hand completely on the ball. Yeah not like the ball is sitting there. And he's like oh no I don't don't get hurt. Don't get hurt and is it remers. That almost gets it away from him. It's one of the Lineman but that guy had way better shot of recovering the Baltin candidate. I think him of the the ball actually gave panthers the best chance of recovering the fumble down for it and then it got knocked away and hit two reps and recovered on the five yard line. Here's here's how dumb. I was after the NFC championship game. I remember being disappointed because I thought the Super Bowl is going to be a blow out. Does this is ABC cassette one and if you remember at the top of the Broncos were much like limping into the super bowl a steelers team that everyone was hurt the only reason they beat the Patriots the Patriots GonNa Block them. I just thought it was GONNA be a blow out for the panthers anti-climactic and little did I know. They still maintain to this day that if New England found a way to win the AFC championship game. It would have been a blowout. I think we would have beaten the shit out of New England without a doubt. Check does not defend Camden. Yeah and Wade Phillips seems to be the only coordinator who knows how to just completely neutralize cam and we call beat the shit out of him every chance you get strategy. We just happened to face the wrong team in in the Super Bowl if New England would have we if New England would have played instead of Denver. We would have won. We also didn't really have the coaching staff to really counter. Two weeks worth of game planning from a really good defensive coordinator. What do you mean counter? What does what does that word mean. That mean. I thought we just we tell them what we're GONNA do. We just do it game plan. Yeah we got our game plan out. There will be stick with from START TO FINISH. Because the Broncos basically just like manned up everybody and blitz every play and. I think what? You really should have done this. Try TO RUN LEE. Probably just like run CAM more. Yeah yeah think what they did was they. Would they had a linebacker watching the running back to the RHINEBECK stayed in blitz? And if they went out they'd fall out there. I don't know why they didn't adjust because that's what they were doing all year. They were keep it in a bunch of people to block along the Light Bulb. Go off in the second quarter to send those guys out and then you have only a four man. Russia don't have to worry about blocking five. Yes that's what I'm saying like this is where you you you spread them out. You know maybe go like five lie empty backfield and get everybody out in pass patterns and then that opens the field for if there are unblocked defenders Cam canal run. But we can't do that because one of the top three receivers wasn't hurt so the fifth guy couldn't play so so we have cam six carries that game which was one more than Mike Tolbert. Who for some reason consistently got carries while he was here and never did anything with them? Eight hours third ones. Don't fail on their own. It is he at five years three point. Four three point six two point one four point one three point three yards per gary fullback. Right there. Yes that's exactly what he was but we thought he was a running back. He's third down like scat back but he weighs two hundred and fifty pounds and didn't we have Fauzi Whitaker at that time or was he hurt yet. He also had four carries in that game. Yeah so why? Don't we just go to Fosse instead of Tolbert because Michael Rookie veteran ability my friend my Tober is bigger very depressing questions to be asking about. We didn't give the ball the fog instead of it's Panthers Fan. I mean Jonathan Stewart got hurt. Predictably I mean we still had cameron. Artis Payne Yeah. That would been a good time to get a look at Cameron. Artis Payne another look at them. They didn't have enough by then. That's xfl league leading. Rusher Cameron Artis. Payne. Fucking hate Ron Rivera. Yes see this is. This is what I was talking about at the beginning of the show where watching Panthers Games nat like knowing that Ronald has gone. You don't have to cling to any sort of like you justification for the bad decisions and watching them now is like. Wow My god we dealt with that for so long. It was so bad it was so much worse watching it now than I realized it was. At the time I think in October. Two Thousand Eleven October. I said AH I second month it was. I think it was game against the Saints Early Season Number at one point. Maybe I'm remembering is wrong. But he called the time out at the end of the having gave the saints time to kick a field goal otherwise got to feel the ended up winning the game by three points. He's rash. His rationale was that they have got a twelve yard penalty. Even if you are twelve men on the field penalty guess. What even if there are. The clock stops anyway. Like there's no point of taking the time out. I was done within that time management long long nine years. So do you feel good about not rule? I feel better than I did. When he was first hired because there was those quotes about him saying like when we run x amount of times with this record which is obviously something. You don't really WanNa hear because it doesn't make sense but yeah yeah right since then I I. I've liked what he said. It's like how they handled the damn noon situation. Obviously but I don't think that was all him. I mean he's one everybody's been I don't know about his. I don't know about Phil Snow. I don't know what to expect him because he's not gonNA play the same defense we saw at Baylor. That was a big twelve defense. They rushed three every down. Basically I don't think we're going to see a lot of that. I don't know that over expect. You don't know that they might three every down kind of what they do. Justice knew what I mean. I know what will happen but I WANNA see it. Say They Win Games in the big twelve. You know you never know yeah. I'll wait and wait until probably October until I give up on him to. Let's see she can make it to November and then he'll beat Ronald Reagan. I pulled up the play by play from the game. You're talking about the saints at Third and twenty and drew brees completed a twelve yard pass in inbounds and I don't think they had any timeouts and Carolina called a time out with two seconds left with eighteen seconds. Left the saints have no timeouts and they're gonNA kick a forty five yard field goal for and Carolina calls time out so that they can settle down and get everybody like you know organized so they can kick the federal and how much they lose by Nike. It was three thirty to twenty zone. There was another thing there was another thing end ended the. I remember the two thousand eleven season vividly as the game. I Ju- brees was like driving the team down. And they they were like on the twenty yard line already and there was like a mid thirty. Maybe two minutes left. And Ron Rivera did not use any of his timeouts. Even though you know the saints are GonNa Score. It's drew brees and you're not going to run out of time if the if you're on the twenty yard line two minutes left you have more than enough time like use your time. Timeouts save enough time to make a comeback. He didn't do that. And The saints ended up winning at the. I don't think the panthers really had time to launch a comeback. This is just a frustrating game all around and I came upon Ron Rivera and I've never give them since even fifteen in one. I didn't forgive him and he said he was saying game right. Yeah I believe so. Yes they They're they're they're in the red zone with to the red zone with basically a little more than two minutes left in the game and they end up they take it all the way down to fifty seconds before they score. Carolina's get a chance to they sell out at midfield. The other thing about timeouts while the saints of the ball. Yeah sign out. Number one was called by the panthers with forty two seconds left in the game when they had the ball ons me. It's it does for all of us the other thing that he did a lot. I like how the Panthers Failed Cam. Newton has turned into what Ron Rivera did wrong. As the coach of the panthers the answer to how to the panthers fail came to just be Ron Rivera at that but Stephen said several times. He thinks it's more the front office than it was. Wron- yeah I'm interested in. I think John is what he's going for. Is Stephen Wise at the front office? Then Ron I mean a lot of it was what had happened before. Cam Newton even got there with what Marty. Ernie didn't the CAP in two thousand ten when he was trying to keep together. I like seventy nine team resigned to running backs and then Dave gettleman never I mean today. Get them credit. They didn't really have cap space when he came aboard and but he never surrounded him with talent. Either like the crazy things we spent all this time talking about Ron Rivera when Marty Hernia and Dave gettleman arguably the worst GM's of the last decade or at least the most criticized GM's was the last decade. That's how poorly they cam. Newton was handled that Ron Rivera coach. I mean he ended up winning to coach the year awards was probably the worst aspect of his career in Carolina. When you have those two. Gm's lurking in the background. Yeah who's worse Dave Gala? Mary Harney or have this out of the three rank and power rankings. Mardi Harney one. Mardi hurry to Dave gettleman. I'M GONNA say I'm GonNa Mardi Harney no aren't learning one. Drafty Cam Newton and Lucci Lee. So I'M GONNA put him third. I'll forget second and I'll I think Mardi honey to you is the worst so far. You think he's been the worst afar. Wow Okay I don't I don't know like he's what is he done better than he did his first time. I think he's been a little better about the Christian. Mccaffrey contract is a million times. Better than the Deangelis Williams and Jonathan Stewart contracts were even with the relative cap rise definitely. It's definitely a better investment but we have more information. Now that tells us not to overpay running backs or pay running backs like at least in two thousand ten. It wasn't like as frowned upon as it was now and there wasn't all this evidence out there showing you that running backs aren't really worth paying. Now you can argue that Chris. Mccaffrey is a different type of running back. But I think that argument because I know you know it. Yeah that's my my justification for it is. He's not just a running back. Like I would be very upset if he pay Derrick Henry that deal for example. He's also overpaid for slot receiver. I'll say that both Yadda Yadda combine it through. You're not gonNA convince me. That was a good sign. By one get rubber also depend on his utilization really to accurately gauge whether the contract worth in my opinion because if he's still running the ball like up there with the top running backs in the league and running it up the middle the no. It's not worth it. But if he's fifty fifty catching the ball running the ball maybe can justify it but really it really depends on his production and how they use them which is entirely on Matt Rule to prove to us that it was worth signing in at this point while my my biggest problem with the contract was I didn't think they needed to sign it when they did. They still had years of leverage that they could have used usually Makalu martines at least explore those options. They don't just give into the running back like last time. This happened with Todd Gurley. They signed him two years before they needed to sign him and he was. He's at arthritic knee before his contract even started the new contract even kicked in. That's fair I'll give you. I think already to has been a little better than one just but I think here's what I think is like the big indicator of how savvy your front offices The Panthers don't trade down they only trade up and I think that's a sign of a not smart front office just like that simple. The only thing that I'm saying Mardi I'm putting Marty one last just because he drafted Cam Newton and lieu keithly like give him an and cam. Newton was a no-brainer. Picking and leuke. Klay was no brainer. Pick too so maybe I maybe I'm ranking and that's the only reason I haven't last if you take those two moves out. I put him I. Oh yeah but yeah like with Dave table just like the Hubris involved with the whole like I know who my guys are some to go get him. Not You know not playing. The game at the draft is increase. Your chances of getting good hits by getting more chances. But the fact that we're like every fan base wants their team to trade back right because it means more pigs more chances for hits so you need a team. That's dumb enough to give up assets to not really improve their odds of getting a good player. And that's always the panthers. A I met back Everett round pick. Yeah Well Marta was real bad at it at like with ever brown and our Manny Edwards in that and then Dave gentleman was just as bad and a martyr and he's been like this versus been a little less bad. They still get greg little and apparently Matt rule arbitrary down. So that's Brownie points for Matt Rule Martin and he's like no we dare Brown's better than multiple trump. Ix right analogy before. Don't remind me about that I've seen before it's like this off. Season has just been so disjointed between the coaching staff in the front office like from the outside looking in. It's like like a one net account but two people have access to World War. One documentaries on it but there's also like love is blind and like reality shows it just doesn't make any sense in conjunction. I don't know what the team is. The Franck is doing is doing this off season. I'm interested to see how it goes. Hopefully it ends up with the panthers drafting Trevor Lawrence next spring. I I am curious. 'cause YEAH. I think that's going to happen. I think we're GONNA be that bad. I think we're going to be too good to get Trevor Lawrence. I've started to come around to thinking the panthers. We pretty bad burr. Going to be bad. I'm not saying they're going to be good. I just don't think they're going to be like one in fifteen two and fourteen bad. I mean I think with Teddy Bridgewater and Joe Brady. They could win five games. And I don't think five wins is going to be bad enough to get Trevor Arts unless they it just depends on the other teams. That are bad are like the dolphins went five and eleven and got to what fourth fourth because. Yeah because the teams in front of the net quarterbacks so it just depends on. Who's worse everybody's every team always looks like they improved every all season pretty much and like Hannah with the time that's passed and seeing how much other teams like receivable improved S. I I you know I could definitely see the panthers going for foreign twelve clearly. The worst team in the in the NFC south. I think that's even debatable. I think there'll be an enjoyable for twelve as much as I think. There's a way we talked about. This is a win win. They're bad there's hope for graphics if they if they're good is just a pleasant surprise but the only other team I feel like the other teams I feel like are in competition with the band is going into season are Jacksonville in Washington. Yeah I agree. I think that week. Fifteen game against Washington is going to be the Trevor Lawrence. Both or UNISEX OUR I would not mind ending up with Justin feels by the way I think he plays Watt Light Cam so I I wouldn't mind them getting him but the reason why. I'm more skeptical about them. Is like the Job Radi higher but I think he still has a lot to prove he spent one years offense coordinator he wasn't even really office coordinator passing game coordinator and apparently lsu became the best team at stealing signals last year in the country. And that's part of the reason why they were so good on offense. The other part is they had like eight. Nfl Pros on the team. So he's going to go from having a talented advantage of not having that anymore and I think on our roster to that's frozen Nelson well the combination of bad even so. I think we all agree that the panthers defense is going to be bad. Yes most likely in Teddy Bridgewater Conservative quarterback. I don't think that's a night a good a good match so I mean down on a lot of games in bridgewater not forcing the issue which he should be doing. Just you wait. Pj PGE WALKERS GONNA come out and light on fire after. He doesn't make the team on. He's not going to be I WANNA hear about Mr Sherbert. Panthers going to draft a quarterback over here. Pj WALKERS NOT GONNA make the team. Yeah you get out of here. I WanNa hear this science dealing thing. I've ever heard that before. Yes so I mean I got this from. This is like sources. But it's not like sources in the no but they heard it from like high school coaches who are in this like a lot because of the recruiting pipeline. So apparently that's a big deal in college football. I think Bruce Feldman from the Athletic Rhoda article about how how big. It's become because college defenses. Don't use the communication devices that you signals so get good at doing signals. That's a massive advanced apparently. Lsu was the best not only in the SEC but in the nation so much so that a lot of SEC coaches started. Lobbying for helmet headset because of lsu specifically. I didn't see I never heard. That is not anything legal right easy all right. They just got good at deciphering. Everyone does it so every day. They just got very good at it. I think that just makes I don't even know who is calling really calling. It just made offense look even better than it was and obviously they have all these pros artists. I saw something it was like Joe Brady called pass play like like I don't know it was. It was split between like he was like and whoever the other guy was called the between the twenty and run plays or something like that. A weird I don't know college weird. They don't have like regular setups. It's like asking game coordinated three step passing game this darling. Downs third downs red zone and pass plays Joe. That's your call first and second down other guy that your call but for inside their own ten. This third guy says it's when he gets involved you can get second in fours. Threes pregnant is on the second four. That's yeah 'cause that's your down to be creative. That's that's an interesting little nugget that Yes that's that's also an adjustment. 'cause YOU'RE NOT GONNA be able to steal signs getting related to to linebacker helmets. Everything else suggests that. Brady's a good coach is really well designed and he fit that offense to Joe Boroughs skill set. So that's encouraging that's all. You WanNa see coaches creative. Play designs in. Does he adjust his talent in job. Radi check both of those boxes last year. Yeah Control and he's familiar familiarity with Teddy Roosevelt as well so this term. I don't know if we've talked about on the show. And then it's bad time to wrap it up. Have we talked about? The State House stereotypical the panthers. Coaching staff is no. We haven't like Matt Rule. It head coach is dislike motivator. He talks like a pastor. Like you know brings things together. The defensive coordinator is this older guy. Who's real rugged and has got this tough guy mentality and then the offensive. Coordinator is dislike young bikes. You know young whizbang wears glasses and looks like a nerd. You're saying are our. Coaching staff is a bunch of guys on the walking dead. Is that what you're getting? I don't know anything about the walking dead so as this coaching. The walking dead should've been the nickname for the coaching staff last year. Actually if this coaching staff is what was what was the previous sections to have. But I think was like an episode of like Hogan's Heroes or some other show from the seventies. It was what you would expect from the classic run the football play defied mindset and. I'm not saying I'm a edge and you win the game. Yeah the classic like nine thousand nine hundred eighty five eighty five. Coaching STAFF STEREOTYPE. All the twenty. While the twenty twenty panthers are like the two thousand twenty. Coaching staff stereotype. Yeah that's that's good call because you have linebacker at head coach that makes sense. Like no one's hiring linebackers head coaches anymore. I think the national I would hire. Yeah but I think that's what I'm talking about like these like defensive-minded guys. There is a very like brute. Force approach to football which is getting kind of phased our outpaced by more analytical approaches to football which tinted offensive minded. People and younger thinks defensive. Guys like to say we're going to be tough. We're GONNA establish the running run down people's throats and then and then one happens and they're like all the boxes. I'm scared they. Yeah now and that's can no longer beat up your dad as yes we dealt with for nine years. Yeah fucking Ron Rivera. Ernie's the only thing left and I've been okay with Mardi Ernie to point out but I there are. There are concerns and I think it might be a situation to where I'm just Blind I like a shielding myself from the negatives because he still here like with Ron Rivera. For so long. It was yet. I mean that's what you have to do. And it's funny. How he disliked. Kinda stuck around like it was never like formally announced that he was the outlasted. Give it to him. He just kinda like he was interim gm and then after a while he just kept you just kind of like. I'm GONNA call myself. Gm for short but I'm still the interim GM and then he just stopped qualifying GM. Now they even are on the payroll like Oh you just showed up like office space. They couldn't interview people for like promotions because he's the GM so they had to interview them for non GM roles. I know that Matt Rule said something about not even Matt Role. I think it was David. Everybody said something about having Mardi Harney take more of a backseat role and moving somebody else into like be more active as far as like scouting and whatnot goes. We keep having come in front of people like that. We keep hiring people that like lessen his role like we just hired that guy from the eagles to be like are pro scout the director of pro scouting or whatever so it's like he's being gradually like every aspect of his job is being replaced by somebody else. He's done everything but Fire Marty. Harney or let him go. 'cause MARDI hurting just won't leave. It's fucking Mardi. Ernie maybe maybe tapper. Thanks Marty honey is the Jerry. Richardson Statue is not allowed to get. That's probably part of the contract so that you could never fire Marty Herni. You gotTa work for you in some capacity. He's going to become a figurehead like a monarch wherever everybody else in the in the building. We'll have more power than him. But he has like the highest title and I'm fine assistant to the team president. Yeah I mean I'm fine with that you can call him. Emperor God whatever you want. As long as he's not in charge just kidding to pay him the GM salary but not having to GM stuff sounds like crepe business. Exactly I mean he's got money to burn so let them burn it so I think that about wraps it up idea. So thanks for coming Stephen Yes David. Is there anything that you didn't get a chance to talk about now? Another thing like I hit on the saints. Two thousand eleven game. That's the one I really wanted to. It's been nine years and you're still like that is under arrest on panthers twitter. We need to discuss it. I'll make sure to plug that we're going to get it out there for you sold. Stephen. Why don't you let us know what you have going on on your side of twitter? What in your world with USA Today and for the win and whatnot to new NFL podcast? It's called the counter I think it's been pretty good so far. We're still finding our footing. The logo is really good. That's what I'm proud of that. And everybody knows though good logo the most important part of here audio podcast. That's right. The discussion sucks but the London during the logo. Yeah that is nice. It's a run play. That's yeah now I have to hold on just a minute and we're still here and got a little get the little sea-going going on for the counter block under the team. And he got the going out for the for the little verbal description of logo for your podcast. That's actually what the podcast it is talking about plays you. There's no visual you just talking about the concept you be quiet. I kick my my room for the podcast so you hear that yeah you hit a high pitch whining. Sounds like a little yappy dog. It's the IT's eighty pound German shepherd. Nikki Yeah what he does. He gets real mouthy. We're on here these Mala time. That's why he burned yourself with wax on Sunday. That you know about that Brad did you did I. What did you find? Did you find the logo? Okay he's he's that while you're talking okay. Well I've missed that one anyway from all of us here at the keep sounding podcasts. Brian joined by Brad and John is always again special. Thanks to Steve for joining us. Thanks talking about Cam Newton and bringing up some really sad portions of our sports lives that we love remembering as always stay tuned for. What's next and stay safe? Stay Healthy. Wash your hands. Don't touch your face being touch. They need to start playing football so he can stop talking about sad memories later. Make News Sata Memory.

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