Leonard Cohen The Poet, Writer, And Father


This message comes from NPR sponsor, national cooperative Bank. Choose a Bank that shares your values, national cooperative Bank offers online checking and savings accounts that positively impacts communities more at NCB dot coop, slash banking member FDIC from WHYY in Philadelphia. I'm Terry gross with fresh air today. We talk about Leonard Cohen, the songwriter and poet, and Leonard Cohen. The father, our guest will be his son Adam Cohen at an produce. The final album is father released before he died. Now, Adams written the forward to a book of his father's unpublished writings. Adam remembers when his father was composing his best known song. Hallelujah took him twelve years. It started when I was very, very young here versus I think they're eighty four verses to that song. I remember coming down to kitchen table and he was there with an island string guitar in his underwear, and they're always be versus to consult. Hundreds of versions have been recorded there. A moratorium on that song, you know in my family. So is that right? Good. Transgression refrain please refrain from playing, Hallelujah. Well, see that's coming up on fresh air. When Leonard Cohen died two years ago at the age of eighty two, he left behind many unpublished poems and lyrics. Some of his final poems lyrics notebook entries and drawings are collected in the new book, the flame, his son, my guest, Adam Cohen wrote the forward. Adam also produced the album as father recorded shortly before his death called you want a darker. Adam is a singer and songwriter whose album like a man when gold and Canada in two thousand twelve. He was born in Montreal in nineteen seventy two. Adam is going to talk with us about Leonard Cohen as a writer, performer and father, and tell us about working closely with his father in the final year of his life. Leonard Cohen's lyrics have depth few songwriters have achieved reflecting reverence and despair. His attraction to beauty and his knowledge of broken this lyrics informed by his Judaism, his practice of zen Buddhism and his doubt some of his many well known song. Includes Suzanne so long, Marianne, famous blue raincoat, Chelsea hotel. Number two, everybody knows tower of song. I'm your man. And of course his best known was frequently recorded and performed song. Hallelujah, Adam Cohen, welcome to fresh air. I just want to start by saying, I love your father's music. I left his writing and I feel privileged to have had the chance to hear him in concert and to talk with him on our show, and I'm grateful for the chance to talk with you. Today's of thank you for being here. When I interviewed your father in two thousand six after the publication of a book of his poems and songs, he asked to read a poem that he'd just written that hadn't yet been published, but it's now published in this new book the flame. So I thought it would be a perfect way to start with your father's reading of that poem a street from our two thousand six interview. Are used to be your favorite drunk. Good. For one more laugh, then we both ran outta luck and luck with all. We had you put on a uniform to fight the civil War. I tried to join, but no one liked the side I'm fighting for. So let's drink to win. It's over and let's drink to when we meet. I'll be waiting on this corner where there used to be a street. It wasn't all that easy when you up and walked away. But I'll leave that little story for another rainy day. I know your burdens heavy as you will it through the night. The guru says it's empty, but that doesn't mean it's light. So let's strength to win. It's over and let's drink to when we meet. I'll be standing on this corner where there used to be a street. You left me with the dishes and a baby in the bath and your tight with the militias and you're wear their, their camouflage will. I guess that makes us equal, but I want to March with you just an extra in the sequel to the old red, white and blue. So let's bring to when it's over and let's drink to when we meet. I'll be waiting on this corner where there used to be a street. It's gonna be September now for many years to come many hearts suggesting to that strict September drum. I see the ghost of culture with numbers on his wrist salutes new conclusion that all of us have missed. So let's drink to when it's over and let's drink to when we meet. Hopi waiting on this corner where they used to be a street. That's Leonard Cohen. Recorded on our show in two thousand six is son. Adam. Cone is my guess and the new posthumous collection of Leonard Cone's, final poems, lyrics notebooks, and drawings is called the flame. It's just been published an includes the poem that we just heard Adam. What does it mean to you to have some much of your father's latest, you know his, the work you did before he died collected in this new book. I, I'm just so struck by hearing my father's voice, which I seem to be listening to almost more than I ever did even when he was alive. I love his poetry. I love his words. I love the way he marshals language I am. I'm weary of discussing my father. I always have been, especially when you have a person who had such an inimitable way of and command of language. So I'm hesitant him. I didn't even know whether I should I. I'm not certain. I should be here speaking about him, but but it's a stirring subject and I have been enlisted I'm enlisted in the. In the campaign to let everybody know how wonderful I think he was. Do you feel protective of his privacy. In my opinion, like your father was very elliptical in his writing and a pretty private about his life. He alluded to a lot of things in his songs, but never quite came out and said them in a direct way. Oh, I, I'm not certain. That's that's true in terms of the use of the word direct. But I will say that. To speak on his behalf feels like a little bit of a transgression. You have a man who has designed his life around trying to not demystify a process, and his work really does speak for itself. So you know, of course, I urged people that just consulted if they're interested in it, it's it, yes, it's complete with contradictions. You know, you go from things that are actually quite direct to things that are mysterious and elusive and designed to be transcended because of it. But he was preoccupied with the the broken, this of things, the asymmetries of things. You know, as he says, forget your perfect offering. There's a crack in everything or in his most famous song. Hallelujah, it doesn't matter which you heard the holy or the broken, Hallelujah. So he was always preoccupied with the idea of the imperfection of things yet there's there's a crack and everything that's that's where the light gets in. I don't have the line exactly my fingertips. But I mean, it's the ring, the bells that still can ring forget you perfect offering. There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. Yeah. So like. Like whatever like can get through the crack. It does. You know? I mean, he sees the light, but he sees the thing that only has a crack that lets the light in, you know, always are the duality of everything is I think what I'm trying to say. So yeah, I, I remember him dancing so beautifully around these kinds of questions, which I think he was irritated by very core. And when I say that, I, I don't mean to be disparaging of the person, constructing the questions. I think it's natural for us to be curious to articulate our concerns or thoughts or questions. But I think it's also natural for the quote, unquote artist to preserve the kind of mystery into not talk about the mechanics almost like a porno. You know, this goes in here that goes in there. There's something bigger than the mechanics and that is the end. The end result, the stirring quality of of what is the result. Salt of an artist's work. And you know, I think he has. He said, you know, I put my paper hat on my concussion in dance. He tried on many occasions to to dance around questions or cooperate the be as best he could. And I feel like such a shabby impostor trying to be booked ballot for him. You know the ambassador of this particular book which I had very little to do with, frankly, other than offering a title for it. Or you had a very eloquent introduction, which I will be quoting as telling goes on here. Thank you. So I, I think you've said he left behind like lockers worth of notebooks. What are you doing with them? I mean, you scrappy like he was always writing. There's always like cocktail napkins and pages and in his pocket. It's you found a notebook in the freezer ones. So what what are you doing with the findings? Well, it's amazing. There's so much paperwork to go through from the simplest. Point of view, there's the are the archive will work, which is assembling everything and trying to pay homage to it for posterity. Then there's the completion of works of his in this instance, it's the flame this book. And then there were also some songs which I was tasked with finishing, you may know, I, I produced his last record the called, you want it darker and while working with him many, many poems were read sometimes to Amir, kick drum just for meter for tempo. And so there's this sense of responsibility to keep the songs alive as he always used to say. I want to play the title song on the final album that was released when your father, Leonard Cohen was still alive, it's called you want a darker and then we'll talk about working with him on it and this is it's what can I say? It's a great song. Out of the game. If you are the Hilo means broken lane. If line is the glory and nine must be the shame you want to dark. Kills a frame. Willie name. In the human frame, a million candles burning full, the hill that never came. You want to darker. I'm ready. Leonard Cohen. From the final album that was released while he was alive, the title track you want a darker my guest, this, his son Adam Cohn who wrote the introduction to a new collection of Leonard Cohen's, final poems, notebook entries, lyrics, and drawings called the flame. That's a so much about facing death and of having a God who allows suffering and accepting the suffering, but yet not being like happy about it or trying to make it seem like sufferings. Great. You know, he's not trying to be spiritual dismissive way of of all the suffering that we endure. I, I wanna read what he wrote about you for the liner notes of this album. He wrote that without your contribution, there would be no record. He said at a certain point after over a year of intense labor, both Pat who wrote the melodies and I convinced mentally broke down with. Veer back injuries and other disagreeable visitations. In my case, the situation was bleak the discomfort acute and the project was abandoned. Adam sense that my recovery, if not, my survival depended on my getting back to work, he took over the project established me in a medical chair to sing and brought these unfinished songs to completion. Preserving, of course, many of pets haunting musical themes. It is because of my sons, loving encouragement and skilled administration that these songs exist in their present form. I cannot thank. Enough, what were you able to do for him physically to make it possible for him to record the odham he mentions you put him in a medical of chair. Can you describe the set up there that you help create for him? I think maybe the more interesting thing certainly to me would be to to just say that we were riding some kind of mysterious wind and the grace of the occasion. There was an urgency to the entire mission. And of course it had to do with his serious health issues. He was mobilized, he had multiple compression fractures of his spine involved in incredible monastic effort on his part to to be present and to deliver the way he did. But that's something about his work in general, not just on the last help him, but in this book and in general, a heat, he invites you into your own inner life because he takes the inner life seriously. He's not like one of these contemporaries. I won't mention any names, but there are many wonderful contemporaries of his who have in my estimation, become nostalgia axe their nostalgia, because there's somehow they've succumb to the temptation of going back into their older catalog and their regurgitating things. Whereas this man was speaking from the very wrong that he found himself at in life. I'm going to ask you to read a poem that published in the new collection in the pasture misc- election of Leonard Cohen's works. So is there something that you could choose that would be relevant to what we're talking about now. You know what? I, I don't wanna read this poems. I think that I think in somewhere another, if we could urge people to to consult the work with smaller samples. Otherwise, it takes a kind of lugubrious tone that I think he would have been very, very reticent to to accept it. I'm wondering if you think that's because like when you're father saying his are read his poems, there was this really dark quality, but there was like kind of existential distance from it at the same time and a transcendent quality as well. That made for really complicated mix of emotion. Is that what is troubling you? The idea of you, you reading the poems yourself that he brought this kind of just, you know, even through his voice, this complicated quality of whatever pain or anguish and spirituality who is expressing at the same time and that you don't feel like you could. I think it's simpler than that. You know, I'm reminded of, I'm reminded of so so many lines in which he talked about the solitude of the experience of the of reading, and there's so many poems in which he alludes to the idea that that this is. This is a private matter. And so there's something contradictory feels like a transgression for meter read them. I appreciate you saying that as a son, but as a fan of your father's work, I will say that he performed his work in concerts to large crowds of people, and there are so many performers who have performed his songs so they have the have his work has a life outside of his mouth, and and his work has a life outside of the solitary experience of reader sitting alone in his room quietly reading his poems. So I. On the record essay. No, and I'll go instep further with what you're saying just because I don't believe that they're contradictory in a sense. I mean, this is a man who's put the word Hallelujah on many millions of people's of lips so that that's the sound of a preacher man. The, of course, when it's attached to song it's supposed to lift and and exists the way songs of os existed. I just mean that there's something about reading the poetry that feels instructional or has a kind of rigor to it of a Googlers quality that I don't believe was intended. There's something more beautiful about the notion of people quietly thumbing through this book and absorbing. And as I say, really taking the time with the jewels that are embedded in every line taking their own time, not with my meter. Now with my voice since you've declined to read more. Your father. I'm gonna play him being Ken kit cantankerous or intransigent. No, it's just it's. It's I'd I'd be lying if I didn't say I was a little disappointing, but I can. I can live with that. So I thought I'd play your father reading another -nother poem of his. From the interview that we recorded in two thousand six. And this is a poem called titles, and it was published in a book that he did in two thousand six of poems and lyrics. So this is Leonard Cohen recorded in two thousand six on fresh air. I had the title poet. And maybe I was one for a while. Also, the title singer was kindly accorded me even though I could barely carry a June. For many years, I was known as a monk. I shaved my head and wore robes and got up very early. I hated everyone, but I acted generously and no-one found me out. My reputation as a ladies man was a joke. It caused me to laugh bitterly through the ten thousand nights. I spent alone. From a third story window above the park deport you gal, I've watched the snow come down all day. As usual. There's no one here there never is Mercifully. The inner conversation is cancelled by the white noise of winter. I am neither the mind the intellect, nor the silent voice within that's also cancelled and now gentle reader and what name in whose name do you come to idle with me in these luxurious and dwindling realms of aimless privacy? I think. Adam gets a little bit where you were talking about the connection of your father, writing and solitude, and the reader re reading alone as during his. Yeah. Entering his solitude. Yeah. As you noted also kind of humor, you know. Remember, I love one of his lines where he says feel so good, not to love you like I did. It's like the tore away my blindfold and said, we're gonna let this prisoner live. That those Larry's my guest is Adam Cohen. He's written the forward to a new collection of previously unpublished writings and drawings by his father. Leonard Cohen. After a break Adam attack about how after his parents divorced when he was a child, his father managed to stay in his life, even though Adam and his mother had moved to the south of France. I'm Terry gross, and this is fresh air. If the your meal. No. And my voice still. As it was the fall. I will speak no. I shall by. Spoken. If. If the all. Voice be true. From this broken. I will sing too. Showery. Support for this podcast and the following message come from each rate. Are you ready to make moves with your money, invest with each rate, and you'll see how simple investing can be no matter your level of experience. Each rates. Easy to use platform keeps you in the know about your money every step of the way, but it's not just their platform that sets them apart. Each rate has the people to offer guidance and support to make your money work hard for you for more information, visit each raid dot com. Slash NPR each rate, securities, LLC member. FINRA SIPC k, it's muddy ENA, wholesome host of NPR's, Latino USA, the podcasts that takes you inside the Latino conversation. Each week will take you into one story that will fascinate and often surprise. You. Listen to let him USA on the NPR one app or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Terry gross back with Adam Cohen a songwriter and singer whose the son of Leonard Cohen. Is there song you remember from your childhood. That sticks in your mind song that meant a lot to you. Maybe even a song you remember your father writing. I mean when I was really young. I remember him composing Hallelujah. You a member him writing it. Oh, yeah. I remember him being it took him twelve years. You know, it started. It started when I was very, very young here versus I think they're eighty four verses to that song. I remember coming down to the kitchen table and he was there with a nylon string guitar in his underwear, and there'll always be versus consult. And I remember even being invited to sing with a group of people in New York City when he was recording the song for his own help them, which by the way, Sony at the time didn't wanna put out. Amazing. An amazing turn of events to have this man's popularity have grown. You know, he lived in kind of a conic anonymity. If you buy those two, if you buy that unlikely union and two grown in popularity so much at the end of his life and for to get back to your question for me to have said on the side of the stage, and you know, watching my old man at five years old and all the way up to into my forties. The whole canon of his work is his living inside of me is playing in my head is triggered by conversation. So for Hallelujah, as you say, there's there were eighty four versus thinking he ever recorded all eighty four, but did it take twelve years and eighty four verses before he considered it completed because of dissatisfaction with verses that he'd previously written or because the still so much wanted to say in the format of that song as. The popular poem states of poem is never finished, but rather abandoned. Do you think he was frustrated working on it for so long or that it was satisfying? I think frustration was expected. The success of being able to let it go was, was the unexpected. You know, I think he has a very vocational from the earliest days. He would wake up earlier than anybody new to black and pages and and gave up an enormous amount or what he would for refer to his compromise, enormous amount. Go back to that song. I came so far for beauty left so much behind my patience and my family. My masterpiece unsigned. You know, you quote the, you know, some people subscribed to to the philosophy. I thought best thought, and that's often attributed to one of the beat writers. But your father believed last thought best thought. He edited, I take it. He edited his songs allot. He went through a lot of drafts. It was a constant process of filtration and refinement for certain. So what? Why don't we hear? Hallelujah, you fathers version. Sure. Leonard cohen. There is a moratorium on that song, you know, in my family. So. Transgression. Yeah, refrain please refrain from playing Alleluia because. Oh, I think he felt like it was going to cause Leonard Cohen, fatigue or something, you know, or give give some other songs chance to get played. It was. It was partly joke in partly his own exhaustion. I think with with the song. So in spite of the moratorium your family has on, Hallelujah. I, I think we'll play at anyways, your k- with that. God, I'm gonna report you to the bully police. Okay. Here it is. Secret core. And the Lord, but you don't really care for music. Do. Goes. For the. All major. Level. Strong need. Leonard Cohen, singing, Hallelujah. And my guest is Leonard cone, son, Adam, cone, and there's an, he wrote the introduction to a new collection of posthumously published Leonard cone lyrics, poems notebook entries and drawings, and it's called the flame. So you know. How Louis I think like two hundred people have recorded Hallelujah, and but it didn't become well known until Jeff Buckley route quartered at like maybe ten years or more after your father recorded it, which is just so strange, but it's a sign of how I think there's a period of years when your father's genius wasn't fully acknowledged. When you know he had the initial period of hits. And then I think people just a lot of people just kind of drifted away and then rediscovered him. And what was it like for you and for him during that period? One when I think he'd been a little bit forgotten. Yeah. I feel like my father probably felt like his whole life was characterized by that by that description that he'd did been forgotten, forgotten by the angels forgotten by the cupid forgotten by. I know that he was not satisfied. He was a seeker. I wasn't satisfied with either the position that he had for the most part in society. He wasn't happy with society. It self that would that. Deepened the conflict. He wasn't too. He wasn't satisfied with the people aid chosen to be around him. He wasn't satisfied with his role as a father. He wasn't satisfied with his role as a lover and through this layer upon layer of disatisfaction, he somehow mustered an incredible buoyancy in ability to be. More than most delightful people anyone ever came across and it wasn't with any sense of bitterness or judgment. I think he just felt like he had this. Shabby little life, and his only solace was was the work itself. And that's what made the end of his life that more Stanishev, surprising and delicious. He know this unexpected ability to to fill, you know, twenty thousand seats in in any major city in the world. These reviews from people that were like, you know, the likely were reviewing the Sistine Chapel itself. It was accompanied by commercial success in accolades into to see him. Take his hat off, you know, and thank the jubilant audiences one after the other, which to see a man who was genuinely surprised and delighted by the reception that he thought he was never gonna get in life. When I saw him probably in the late two, thousands, like two thousand nine. Maybe I can't remember what year it was. It was kind of like being in a church or synagogue. There was this sense of like devote the devotion of fans to him and his devotion to the music and two things larger. And he ended it with what struck me as a benediction, and I forget exactly what he said, but you know to those of you who are going home, you know to your families, enjoy your families and to those of you who live alone enjoy your solitude. And I thought like people don't say that that's such a beautiful thing to say. It's a lovely way of sending people home and sending people who are going home alone, joy, your solitude. Yeah, me these songs. Find you in your solitude, lessons. The blessings actually the exact quote as may the blessings find union, solitude, I thought it was just beautiful. Well, this is a man who has he says, am I think you've just played it when you know, although we had a reputation as a ladies' man, you know he was. He had to grit his teeth at the ten thousand nights. He spent alone. He understood something about solitude. Let me introduce you if you're just joining us. My guest is Adam cone. He's the son of the late Leonard cone, and there's a new collection of Leonard Cohen's of final poems lyrics and drawings and notebook entries previously unpublished and it's called the flame. And Adam wrote the introduction to it. We're gonna take a break and then we'll be right back. This is fresh air support for NPR and the following message come from ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology finds the right people for you and actively invites them to apply. That's why ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US based on hiring sites with over a thousand reviews on trust pilot. And right now, listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash fresh. So you were born on nine hundred seventy two, some of your father's most famous or already written and recorded. By the time you were born Suzanne selling Marianne, hey, that's no way to say. Goodbye burn on a wire, Chelsea hotel who by fire. So did you hear it? You didn't need me. Did you hear them a lot when you were growing up? I mean, this is like when I was growing up, I thought about songs and singers, but it didn't think about song writers. You know, I just thought about like, what's the song and who's singing it, but but you are you. Your father was a song writer. See most of had an awareness that songwriting was a craft that something people actually did, and you must like grown up with these songs. I don't know if he played them around the house. I don't know if even heard them when you were. You know, of course heard them. Yeah. I was five year old on the side of stages. Watching them being performed, of course, can into the looking at the faces of of audiences of, you know, in in different times and places, and I was a deep, deep admirer of the melodies of at first, you know, as a child, just the melodies the generosity of the melodies. And then as grew older, that was the complexities in the beautiful marshalling of language and. Then you grow older than you then you sort of. See, I remember. I remember I myself. Was making a record at the time, and I'd scrapped it and asked my father for council. I said, dad, you know, meet me me. I really got to talk to you. I got pick your brain. We were sitting on the corner of Wilshire and libra, and I confess to him that I was going to scrap this entire record and was expecting him to put his hand on my shoulder and say, like, that's my boy, you know, altruistic values don't never stop, continue, refining. But instead he turned to me and said, and scrappy record. That's an amateur move, said, amateur move. He says yet, it's not about how you feel about the record. It's how the songs make them feel. And. At that moment, I realized that. The love I'd always had for his material wasn't just about their construction, but it was also about their intention -ality. He was holding up this baton that he had been given by the love he had for the people who came before him, and he was holding it up and and something about the canon of his work that has always maintained that that baton off the ground. How old were you when your parents separated. Five, six. I'm not the door member. So how much did you get to see your father after the. I'm in a relationship now and the imperfection of a union between two people has been demonstrated to me in vivid colors and dimensions, and the fact that my father was able to stay in his children's life despite those complications. And then some was remarkable is remarkable to me. I, my mother moved my sister knife to across the world, many occasions and not just to get away from him. In fact not to get away from him at all, but just to follow our own whims and my father would often even parka caravan at the end of a dirt road just to be near us. He's always been part of our lives. It always he always maintained a role in in our lives. Despite my parents seperation. Caravan is like a mobile home. Oh, yeah. They're like, what do you call those? Like a jet stream kind of thing? Yeah. I remember my mother moved my sister now all the way to the south of France where we lived and there's a long dirt road and he bought when he sort of caravan Jetstream type things and put it the at the t. where the road met the dirt road and you just lived there. My mother did want him on the property. So you know, every day after school bus would drop us off, we'd see dad and his caravan. For. Well, he did that in variations of that Trump own tire life. And then you know, as I say, they could the the intent to be part of his children's live the deliberateness with which he contorted his own life and scheduled to to make sure that he was present in our lives was a feat. There's something really terrible that happened to you then in its own way as maybe responsible for the revival of his career and for his reconnection to people are around the world. And that's that he had an accountant or a business manager who like drain your father savings and sold the publishing rights to your father saw that's kinda like stealing his soul to sell all the publishing rights to his songs. I mean, that's just seems like such a transgression in, like, I think your sister who discovered that it happened like if other didn't even know. Yeah, you know. As he often joked, it is hilarious that he thought he could resolve his economic woes with song and poetry and incredible the that were the canon of his work with his devotion to blackening pages, melody, that that he built the life he built for himself. And when he experienced this, this episode that you're referring to, it actually did compel him back out of retirement back onto the road. And that is what was part of what I referred to as the most sort of joyous and unexpected episode of his life which was to to discover that all this time absence had made the part GRA fonder who knew he had always benefited from this kind of icons status. You know, people at Kurt Cobain and and others, you know would quote him and, but it didn't result in the kind of massive. Peel, and lo and behold, from this economic crisis arose this most unexpected and. Festive of periods in his life as a festive. I mean, it was incredible to see the. The amount of universities that suddenly started teaching his works studying his works or even whole rabbinical clan. Adopting his lyric says liturgy, Madison Square Garden in the, oh, to, you know, twenty thousand seaters suddenly being filled eight, never sold more than six thousand tickets. So thank goodness for that economic crisis. So did he ever get the song writes back because not really? Those are gone. My guess is songwriter and singer. Adam Cohen who is the son of Leonard Cohen. Adam wrote the forward to a new collection of his father's previously unpublished writings called the flame. We'll talk more after a break. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message come from TIAA TIAA supports people who are driven by purpose. Those who build others, instead of just wealth who give back and never give up whatever your purpose may be. TIAA will help you live your definition of success, whether you have five hundred dollars or five million TIAA will get you where you want to be with investing advice, banking and retirement planning star today at TIAA dot org. NPR's code switch tackles Rathan identity in America with humanity and humor. You'll laugh. You'll learn, you'll get uncomfortable. It's worth it. Find codes which on the NPR one app or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get back to the interview. I recruited with Etem Cohen his father, Leonard Cohen, died two years ago. Adam is written the forward to new collection of his father's previously unpublished writings and drawings called the flame. Okay. So you are a singer songwriter to you. Grew up with your father's voice. You grew up with him writing. You grew up with him reading to you. You watched him backstage as he performed. Was it hard for you to find, look your own voice to recognize that his voice was a part of you that it influenced you in the way that people have a right to be influenced by the people who the they take in as they're going through their formative years. It wasn't hard to. To acknowledge that influence in the same and at the same time, figure out who you were as a singer and songwriter. You know, I'm triggered tensor that in two ways, the first is to look at. It's the typically, you know, statistically, I think humanity, you know, Napoleon, son, Frank, Sinatra's, son, you know, it's very, very difficult to capture people's imaginations in the same way as one would if your name was Joe Smith, you know, and you had no providence statistically the the heirs of people who do great things can often not do great things has as as remarkably and in in such a beloved way. There's that. And then there's the idea that you know that I grew up perhaps under this tyrannical shadow this oppressive Toronto shadow, and it's quite the contrary in this was one of the most generous attentive, nourishing characters I'd ever met. He encouraged me up. Up to the upper upper sunniest branches of the family tree. And as I say, you know, I, I really do believe my SIS story is far more of a success story, not just the instruction got from a master, not just having his attention and encouragement and the example of his own life and work. But the great privilege of being invited. Again, you know, having started in the mail room of the family business, the great privilege that it was to end up in the at the penthouse you know, making boardroom decisions with my boss, if that will. What about how other people might see you as Leonard Cohen some, but you haven't talked about yourself about your own process of development as a songwriter and finding finding your own voice, but it's just something comic about, you know, this incredible oak. You know this, this I see him as exceptional as as miraculous. In almost. In a way, and you know to be talking about my little sprout next to his offering just seems comic you have the right to talk about yourself without apologizing leave. It's unimportant you of the right to talk about it and the right to talk about yourself and to claim your own identity as a, you know, reminds me of one of my favorite lines from my dad is I will not be held like a drunkard under the cold tap affects. So these are your facts ma'am. All right. All right. So with all that said, I wanna play a song of yours. Given how careful you are about curing things. I want to ask you to choose the song. I know this is I'm forcing this is against your, will you'd probably rather not playing thing, but consider yourself forced teach us a song of yours for us to play. Given the context. I think we should play a song that my old man always loved was a song called what other guy? Okay. Here's Adam. Cone. I know what she looked class can Monin kisses us. Contri- closed senior, the thin on, but the radio and know how many French. Favorite moves you favored. A? No. It really gets to go. Low. Where you go, beautiful friend. No. Taste. Though the Cana thing. Makes the we'd till chill. Would've guy knows. Can lame. The first kids come name the. On your. God knows you. I no shoe. Shoot, that's Adam. Cone singing his own son, what other guy and Adam Kohn wrote the introduction to a new collection of his father is late father, Leonard Cone's, final poems lyrics notebook entries, and drawings, it's called the flame. Thank you for letting. That's play that. Painting me out to be a real control freak. Oh, yeah, kind of kind of Adam cone. I really appreciate your doing this in real you. You're not not very comfortable having about your father even talking about yourself in this kind of setting. So thank you again so much. Thank you so much, most gracious and patient of you. Thank you. Adam Cohen wrote the forward to the flame the new collection of his father Leonard Cohen's, previously, unpublished lyrics, poems notebook entries and drawing tomorrow on fresh air. We'll talk about how terrorists governments, political campaigns, even street gangs, have weaponized social media with real world consequences. Our guests will be PW singer and Emerson brooking authors of the book like war. I'm Terry gross will close today with Leonard Cohen. Few on. Oh, do and thing you as to. And if you want. Canned of low. A mask for you. If you wanna pot. Take my hand if you want a straight down and. Here is Dan. Man. If you wanna box. Will step in to the. If you want a dumb. Support for this podcast and the following message come from internet essentials from Comcast, connecting more than six million low income people to low cost, high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more now they're ready for anything.

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