#235: Julia Greenspan, ND - Author, Rising Above Lyme Disease

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

All the golden calling only juice. It's time for lime ninja radio. Today. Radio. Didn't it doesn't match the model? That's currently out there. And I realized that early on the model that's currently out there as far as dieting in my opinion, as far as guiding doctors as how to treat line didn't match. What I was seeing in the patient population as far as what was being offered for treatment, what people how people are being turned away that had obvious symptoms. This podcast is sponsored by the lime ninja symptom tracker. I'm so excited to tell you about our new Lyme ninja symptom tracker. One of the things I hear over and over again, whether it's talking to a patient in my office or consulting over the phone with the client is just how difficult it is to keep track of progress on their lime journey recording symptoms daily or even weekly gives them too many data points. There's so many ups and downs twists and turns at some point, they get lost and confused. The lime ninja symptom tracker takes all the guesswork out a tracking symptoms with the simple monthly questionnaire once a month is the perfect interval deceive that new supplement or protocol is working right now. When you take the symptom, tracker, questionnaire, we give you a simple composite score for the month, but we had big plans, and the data, you enter will not be loss as we roll out new features. Best of all, it's free. Just head on over to Lyman into radio. Dot com slash tracker. And sign up that's lime an injured radio dot com slash tracker. You'll be glad you did. Join us every Thursday night tunes for the latest episode of lime ninja radio. Hello I'm your lime journey guide. Mckay Ripi, and this is episode number two hundred thirty five with the author of rising above lime disease. Naturopathic doctor, Julia Greenspan. Also welcome our show producer and the brains behind lime ninja radio Aurora everybody. And in this episode you're going to learn three main. Thanks, number one. How much time should you wait for new protocol to work before you? Give up on it. Number two, why developing healthy mindset starts with setting boundaries. And how putting yourself I is the most unselfish thing you can do. Thanks ROY, and a big shoutout to all you longtime a lime ninjas. You're the reason we have more than half a million downloads Aurora. And I really appreciate you tuning in, and we'd like to welcome all those new listeners out there. Welcome to. Lime ninja radio. You're now officially alignment, you welcome everybody. And as you know, lime disease is an international problem each week. We have listeners join you from all over the world. And this past week, we've had listeners, tune in from Colombia to Canada, and from India to Estonia, or tell us a little bit about today's guests Julia Greenspan doctor. Julia Greenspan is a natural path who graduated from the university of natural medicine in two thousand six she founded her practice in New Hampshire and quickly started trading lime disease. She contracted, Lyme herself and his now raided a top line literate Dr in New Hampshire and in March, she published a book rising above lime disease to support patients and families fighting line. You know, there's nothing like getting lime disease to really open your eyes to everything. There's a pun me, you don't get it till you get it. And doctors who have family members or themselves had Lyme disease are really at the forefront of pushing forward, so best we can do as chairman it's, it's great to have them in the lime community taking care of us. So yeah, you go first. The little low energy right now. Why did you want to talk to Dr Greenspan as you know, we're beginning to lay the foundation for our lime journey roadmap what we've discovered after doing two hundred and thirty what is the thirty five to one hundred thirty four episodes is that most people don't have the basic roadmap and I'm not talking about a specific protocol, like the Cowden protocol, or buehner protocol something like that. But in overall roadmap how you gonna get from where you are right now to lime free. Lease feeling. Yes, I say lime free. I use that term free loosely sent hate mail about it. We know maybe they're maybe not. But anyway, you winning with lime disease like it's no longer an issue. You don't worry about it. I mean that's the ultimate goal. How great would that be just live your life? And just live the life, you wanna live and not worry about, or do you run out of energy today, or you have to pay for it tomorrow type of thing. That's what we're talking about. And Dr Greenspan's book really gets into the first phase. So we, we separated this map this journey the lime journey into three phases. And the first phase is the reboot days as kind of what you take stock aware, you are a lot of times, it has to do with resolve not resolving, but reconfiguring your life. Even if you've been in treatment for a long time. Sometimes you have to take a step back in and start all over again. Right. You have unrealistic expectations. You've. Been doing something that has been working for three years. It's time to try something new. Maybe you just totally at a loss and don't know what to do next. So that's the reboot phase, a lot of times, also people have to reboot if they're just discovering they have Lyme disease. They thought they'd had MS or something, you know, you have to reboot. So that's the first face. The second space is to resolve and that's really resolve all those infections. You have, and that's everything from Epstein Barr to lime to bartonella whatever it might be mold anything that's in there and not exactly to cure it, but to resolve it. So it's no longer the main player, and then the last is to restore knew what damage has been done been done to your mighty Qendra to your psyche. What you have to rebuild and restore to get back on your feet and get back out into the world fulltime. This interview is really about the mindset phase having a healing mindset in what that takes, I encourage you Jack out a book, it's wonderful. If you're in the New Hampshire area. And you need a line practitioner. I was really really impressed with Dr Greenspan looker up, she's wonderful and great asset to have. So that's, that's what we're doing here. All right now, the other thing to know and we'll have more about this information at the end of the interview. So hang onto the end of that, you can go to our website and get a worksheet to help you do this roadmap. And we'll have more information as the weeks, go by and really will have workshops and things like that. So he can create your own lime journey roadmap. We're not really telling you how to do it. We might be telling you kinda when to do it, but we're what, not what to do, but we want to give you the foundations of kind of. What steps to take in how to go forward? Absolutely, we distilled down all these interviews into every successful. Lime patient has done these things in more or less this order. And if you wanna get better, that's what you need to do. It's really that simple. And then you something like the lime ninja symptom cracker to make sure you're progressing for. That's, that's one of the big issues here. There's one thing I talk ask Dr Greenspan about, well, how do you know when to abandon a protocol? And if you listen, we'll give you that answer. So hanging there it's a great interview. And here we go. Hello, Dr Greenspan this McCabe from lime ninja radio. How are you? I'm quite well. I'm very excited to speak with you. My daughter, and I were going through your book this morning in preparation, and congratulations. It's pretty awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. Now before we dive into what you've learned and what you've written in your book about Lyme disease want to ask you a professional question. Actually, it's like what inspired you to be a natural path because that's a little bit of a path less. Well, taken. Well, I was raised around pharmacy. My dad is a pharmacist in multiple generations of my family. And so I was kinda raised around that world. Most of my life, and I had an interest in medicine, but knew that the conventional model didn't quite work for me. I was actually originally a social worker in psychology. I was heading into getting my master's, and doctorate in psychology. And I realized that I wasn't happy wasn't happy doing the work and one day I looked up on my bookshelf notice that I had a bunch of books on alternative medicine. I was just reading for fun. And it dawned on me that, that was my calling that I take an extra classes in school and done things, and just sort of done it for fun. And I'm like, if I'm doing that for fun than that has to mean something. So back I changed my entire major ahead to go back into pre med classes that I hadn't done that required for psychology and basically started over at the age of twenty four so. And went back in got did a couple years of pre recs in winter medical school also, that's wonderful. That might experience with acupuncture. Same thing. Basically hit me on the head. When I wasn't looking and just said, I'm going to go do then so off. I went. It's funny how those things can creep in, if you pay attention. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. If it was definitely a calling, and, and then it just kind of took off from there. And so it's not a lot of people. Don't really understand what naturopathy are what our background is. But perfect. So what did you tell us a little bit? Thanks. Yeah. There's a little bit of a difference. There are a lot of individuals who, who might say that they are Natura pass debt have a bit of a different education. But ND's that practice in several states that are licensed throughout the United States in every year. More and more states are becoming more formerly licensed in explain with that means in a second. But basically, you know. You know. Doctors in general are required to have an undergraduate degree a four year bachelor's or master's in move on doing a doctorate than so the same as required. For naturopathic doctors, there are about four different schools in the United States, I went to when that's Portland, Oregon. That was the fiftieth graduating class. And basically, it's, it's, it's a medical program just as just as you would find the first two years or basic Medical Sciences, in the second two years. Focuses more in on specialties in clinical time. And then we also have residencies for for docstater coming as well in moving on into their careers. And so, you know, there's quite a bit of education there, and we're also in the states where we are licensed, I was actually chair of the board here. I live in New Hampshire and we have a state medical board that are specific for naturopathic doctors that hold to the same standards and regulations and quality of care. As far as keeping up our continuing education, making sure that we're providing a safe medical care, and you'll find in different states on the west coast were more well known where a lot more of us there, because there's a lot more schools on that side of the of the country versus the east coast. So here in New Hampshire, there's only about forty or fifty practicing naturopathic doctors, whereas in Oregon, you'll find several thousand and so there are a lot more integrated into the hospital system, but naturopathy covered under insurance. So loud people, that's the big question when people come in and see after Pethick doctor, they wanna know for covered in they, they can be depending on the state here in New Hampshire. It is very convenient for being a lime specialist that I am covered by insurance because, you know anybody who's been dealing with lime disease knows that it definitely can be very expensive process to try to recover from lime so anything that we can do to help make that easier. National physician. Where's white says? Gee, I wonder if I can if they're licensed natural paths in my state where can they find out that info at the American Association of naturopathic physicians? No here in New York, it's we're not there yet. Now keep trying though. Yeah, there's a few states that are that are still kind of struggling with trying to get that to go through and gain acceptance. What it does when that happens is it provides more safety for the public because if you know if people don't know, and they're going to see somebody who calls themselves in after Pathak doctor in, in somebody doesn't know that there are programs out there that it, we're individuals might go school for just a couple of months, take classes online, and if they're working at a state where they don't have to have any type of credentialing or a degree or prove that they've passed boards and olive added that there are continuing their training, you know, they can just hang shingle on. Sam naturopathic doctor. So you really there are people who are practicing unlicensed states that are from for your medical programs. You really want to ask somebody if you're gonna go see a naturopathic where did you graduate from how many years, did you go to school may be licensed in other states where there is licensure where they're maintaining that. But it really is safety for the public. You want someone who's working with you that has a medical background that's gonna be giving you medical advice and providing care Besters, one of the schools. And what are the others yet? I went to the national college of natural medicine, and there is also the southwest college of natural medicine or naturopathic medicine in Zona, and then investor also has a satellite school in, in California, as well. And there is also a school up in Vancouver BC, but there's, there's just a few of us than there is a school in on the west coast in Connecticut, but I think that it is actually closing, but it was a Bridgeport, which port university, so. Yeah, there you go. There's a little bit of background. They're not think that's important because it's we hear sometimes actually it's like Audi pronounce it right into its nature, Natura Pam as you start. You start there's like, how do you pronounce that thing? And then it's kinda like, well, what exactly is start talking to two different practitioners. And some of them are such MD's like you said, and then others are just like experts in supplements. So it does make it may. A huge difference in, in California. They can prescribe medicine as well, right? And here in New Hampshire. That's well, yeah. So it's, it's really, you know, you guys are the first than now, the trying to will not try to, but the functional medicine movement on the MD side of things is really trying to bridge that gap. But a why reinvent the wheel? You've got this wonderful training and education already in places like just become a natural path. Well, and it's a different type of training. So there's things I, I know what I know. I know what I don't know. And there are things that are going to be perfect for someone to come see after path for, they're gonna be things that are going to be more suited for seeing a conventional medical practitioner, that has hospital writes, in that can escalate things in a way that, that I can't that might training dozen involved. But when it comes to the chronic disease model naturopathic are really, we're, we're really trained from day, one to be managing a chronic illness, and that really is the, the number one issue, over acute disease, you know, over cute infections, the chronic illness is the one that's really putting a strain on human quality of life, and on, really the medical system in general, both financially, and, you know, in all respects so, speaking here and really focusing in on the patient in their whole story. So our goal is to really look at all aspects of, you know what a patient has been through up until the point that they are sitting down in. Our office. And then my job is to try to help them build themselves back into being healthy over the course of time in with lime disease. That is especially true, that there is a there's a whole rebuilding in restoration process along with trying to get over the infection speaking of that. Why lime disease? Why did I specialize in that when I first moved here, I grew up in Portland, Oregon actually I I'm not actually what east coast girl on the west coast girl, but I've lived here for about twelve years, and twelve or thirteen years. And I when I first moved here, my goal was to start a clinic for general practice, general family medicine, and environmental medicine was my main medical school. So cleaning people out toxins out of them getting helping them restore their health with how they eat in with our what's in their homes in their bodies. So doing key Latian in heavy metal Latian detox and people started to show up I growing up the reason why. Growing up in Portland, Oregon or growing up in an area where there isn't really much lime. Or at least there, wasn't for me growing up, and it was nothing compared to what it is here on the east coast. You know, it was I had no idea of what it really meant to live somewhere with a epidemic. You know, having to go outside. I mean, we had bugs in all sorts of stuff, and things like that in Oregon, but not not like it is here with ticks, and so people started to show up with illnesses, and I, you know, by hearing, their story, I tested them for lime are positive. I'd say we'll go in go into your PCP this positive for lime. It's an infectious disease at the time I wasn't how, how hard can it be? Gertie again. And, and I don't really like to anybody attics, it's not my thing. You know, I just graduated it was I that wasn't my focus or my comfort zone, so people came back patients come back by the week or two later and say, you know, I tried and they refused, they used to treat me so Mike. What am I coming from a social work background? I have a real problem with disenfranchisement and people not getting the care that they need. And so I started treating in this area once people here that you treat Lyme disease. They, you know, the word get quickly. And then. So we'd been a few years that I started to treat lime just because it kept showing up. So the practice chose me. And then I found out I had it. A line I had lime disease, Fabio sus. And so the patient as well. Yeah. So that was very life changing and helped me, a better doctor have those. Yeah. So where what did you turn to, to begin learning about line, the first packet, the first thing I ever read, and actually I'm going to be doing a lecture with him in a few weeks? I'm I'm a little nervous about that because he's like my lame superhero. But is a Joseph I gone. Oh, yes, of course, he has a packet out online called advanced topics online disease. And, and when I was, I thinking, all right. Maybe I'll do this lime thing, but many doctors doing it and people need help, and I gotta get myself like I gotta get some idea of what to do. What's going with that handle this? So it's about a forty five forty forty page document, and I have recommended over the years, because it was for a long time before other books that come out online that was. A really nice resource for people that could be reliable because it's a big issue with people trying to find reliable information around Lyme disease with the internet, especially with everything out there. And all the fear and kind of the, you know, the opinions about it. So I would say that was my very first resource that really helped me in, then, of course, I've been training, a member of eyelids. And, and I've been doing their trainings for years in some going yearly to the conferences the best, I can in the knife, started off by taking their they have courses that they teach every year for new doctors that are treating lime to kinda give them a primer on idea of how to get started. So I started with that about a decade ago or a little over a decade. Awesome. Just curious. Why? I mean that kind of the answer already my head. But I wanna ask you, why not the idea say. Well, you're going there. Okay. But really? So you're gonna call you dock your doctor? Right. And Lyme disease is kind of new to you. And the only reason I feel you would not lean that way, because you're Natura path in, you kinda low more open minded, but why not go to the experts because treatment appears people being denied care. Okay. It doesn't match the model that's currently out there and I realized that early on the model that's currently out there as far as guiding in my opinion. Okay. If our guiding doctors as to how to treat lime didn't match what I was seeing in the patient population as far as what was being offered for treatment, what people how people are being turned away that had obvious symptoms lab results that, you know, that treatment time one of the major differences, I find between the idea say I ladder is treatment time, you know, that, that we treat longer in. We treat until we see symptoms. Coming to a time of being in a place of remission or recovery. And, and many times in the current the current limitations set out by the idea say it's sort of like the well we've treated you for lime. That's it, you're done. And it has to be something else now. And then they have post Lyme syndrome in, you know, if you look at the literature, there, even doctors who are in alignment, more with the conventional model, but they'll say in, you know, instead, he's that, okay? We have the definition of post Lyme syndrome for individuals who pad lime in now have, you know, continued joint pain, headaches fatigue, will, how are we serving that population? You know, that was really important question of somebody who falls more the idea say, model when I was doing research for the book they, you know, like, how do we serve this population? We don't even have they didn't even have guidelines as to how to really serve this population that had all these chronic issues after having line. We label then call it something. But there's really no fall. Oh, through with how to manage care for these individuals. So I think those are some big distinctions in why that model didn't work well for me. And also, you'll find that the islets model is very integrative with natural medicines in weaving that in, and that's a really big part in a really popular part, when you when you go to the conferences in things you see, allow the doctors, the MD's Dios nurse practitioners natural as are all talking about conventional treatment with antibiotics in different medications, and balancing that with natural medicine. And that's that's where I felt most comfortable fair to say that in seeing these patients, come back to you kind of you weren't satisfied with, with what you saw. Like, okay, who else is out there that we can begin to learn exactly? Though. Yeah. So you learn from your patients. Yes, smart. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very I love what I do. And I'm very connected to the community here. Very connected to the population. I might you know, a lot of compassion, I feel very protective of the patients in how protective I am of they're, you know, making sure that they're mentally emotionally physically handling everything. Okay. Moving through the process, and that was a big motivation with writing a book that having a more open discussion about what's happening to people because of all of the controversy around. The disease is actually creating more trauma in more chaos for individuals in more for them to recover from because they're stuck in the middle of this back and forth between doctors and being not knowing who to believe, in what to believe in being very demoralized by being denied care being told that they don't have what they have, they don't have lime disease doesn't exist, or they don't have these tick-borne disease. This can't possibly be what's wrong with you. So it's really hurting families. It's hurting individuals. So that, that to me, and especially I live in a smaller kind of community here in New Hampshire versus where I grew up in Portland, Oregon and more metropolitan, and so I feel very connected with the community in that way, though health far Deger, lime progress. I had neuro logical lime. So I it took two years of treatment a used about everything you can imagine, and I want people that will try stuff out on myself before. Like when I bring new therapies into the clinic alt-right outta myself before off, give it to somebody else, and I did about five months of IV antibiotics, and this is all in tandem with natural medications, all sorts of different support, if they're buddies, physical therapies, and things like that, and energetic ones, as well in my mind involved, you know, having a lot of neurological issue. So I would have a lotta seizure. Events, read be more awake and that's pretty common. I see in the baby's you population with lime lot of normal body movements and things like that had a really hard time, tolerating being in public spaces and was in a lot of pain, and very uncomfortable. But I still, I don't know how I did it but still managed to work my practice. Day. But, you know, I had a very lucky situation where I was going through all that. But I had a built in. Support system here, you know, I ran a line took born these clinic. So I could sit here with my ID and my arm dripping wall talking with patients, you know, in every day, I had people that were giving me support going through it, you know, and how important that was for my recovery, but it wasn't easy. Of course, it took a long time just like I mean I mean two years, actually lime is pretty his short. Yeah. Absolutely. So I got a you know, I got I got through fairly easy, easy compared to other patients that I treat. You can't place a value on that type of support. I mean that's almost the first step in many people's journey to getting better is trying to find some level of support, whether it's in their family, or with friends or even online, because it can be so even this day and age. So stressful just there, you know, it's being dismissed is like just like you said, from the doctors just dismissed, and specially in unfortunately, you know, there's the white coat syndrome with hyper with hypertension kind of thing, and you get nervous in your blood pressure goes up with visiting the doctor, but then there's also this, this white coat syndrome where if somebody's having a problem with you doesn't understand what's going on. And they hear some doctors say somewhere that were and the wearing a lab coat that Lyme disease is, is idea say. Easy to treat these to cure you get over a couple of weeks, antibiotics. Thank you very much. The rest is just something else said a dozen exist, this chronic Lyme disease, then, you know, then you get friends and and neighbors are giving you a really hard time. And I know I wanna get into I cut you actually bring up that type of thing in your book quite a bit. And that's one of the things I loved about your book, but before we go, there you brought up your, your pats practice was in tuck city, right in an environmental medicine, and let me I'm going to ask this to two questions might be related. Do you would you under stress when you got bit in infected? Do you think we're you Volna Rable at that point in time? Yeah. While I it's hard to know vacuum that I've actually never pulled a tick out of my skin ever that I found. So I had no idea when I was bit. But I know of a couple of times where I got sick. One of them's actually, in the third trimester of pregnancy child. Yeah. And so pretty convinced that that's when I developed visa, but it was also during that h one n one flu epidemic. You know, my son was born in two thousand nine so. I definitely will say that I was under stress. I was starting practice. I was a mother of toddler. I will my daughter was born two years prior. And I you know not sleeping. I wasn't getting a lotta sleep. I was burning the candle both ends. And I'm just that anyway. And I also had Bayreuth issues as well on top of that, that I developed since the pregnancy. So, of course, the firewood plays a really big role in, in wellness in, in being able to sustain during times of being ill and being able to have your immune system overcome that. So I would say absolutely I was. And then, of course not knowing that I was infected for quite a while. I think things just piled up for me than finally became noticeable. But I definitely didn't pick up on it in myself right away. When I look back I should have picked up on it. But I did that same thing that so many other patients do of the explaining away symptoms. You know visitors who wants to be sick, and what he wants to be sick on, you know, all these other things, and then, and then you think, well, maybe I should go get this checked out in the Nelson few weeks later, you're fine. The office where people make appointments in their desperate to get in a call about a week before their appointment. I'm feeling much better now fine. I'm good. I'm great. I don't need the appointment. And then with her from them a couple of weeks after they cancelled. Oh my gosh, made such a mistake. I gotta get. I'm in, even if you feel good, just come in, so I will say, environmentally yet for a lot of people, especially they live in a home with mold big one a lot with Richie shoemakers protocols. Yet genetic pathways that are able to discern. If somebody has a hard time with getting rid of biotoxins from, from mold or from microbes, even are part of the pathways that are looked at that. And then how much inflammation that's causing in the body than isolating. 'cause in for a lot of people that causes their home here with all the snow and the moisture in certain times a year, mold than ice, dams and things like that in, in water encroaching in the houses fairly something happens quite often for people, so they have no idea that the house is really the one, making them sick or where they live. That's, that's potentially aiding their illness in making it more difficult. For them. Recently somebody in their community was mold. So they felt worse as they approached the front door is that weird. So it's like the bone. Yeah. The homeless find tested out fine. There was something in the neighborhood, some mold. So I don't know if they were in a farming community remit the details, but that isn't, yes. So it's there's the whole an end. So where are you in a farming community their New Hampshire? No, I would say it's sort of a blend of both at this point. It growing quite a bit here. His people are sprawling from Boston. I live on our side of Boston. Okay. Yeah. You know. But there still is, you know, you get out into the countryside, you know, twenty thirty minutes any direction from where I am. You're gonna see definitely more farming community. Or people with just, you know, a lot of acreage with a not necessarily farming, but they, they liked to people buy homes here, because they can get a lot of age that acreage is gonna have a lot of wildlife, and beauty and ticks. Yes, it does. All right. Let's dive into your book here. And again, one of the things I appreciated is not only are you gonna going through details of this these different ways to treat the infections. But you're trying to help people I like to say think outside the tick, I think you may be said that in, in your book that phrase, and think about these co-infections in how really they fit handed glove and and use each other to evade immune system. It's, it's really pernicious how they do that. But then also you get into the cycle. It's probably 'cause your background the psychosocial kind of aspects of that in taking care of your spirit and out, say you're hearing healing spirit instead of fighting spirit to keep going right to keep going to keep a positive attitude and to keep putting one step in. One of the other end adjusting adjusting your goals, and your expectations of yourself in, in your community, the 'cause went when you do become berry berry, l like you were in. You're sitting there with a pick line of doing your job at the same time, it's not the same as it was a year ago when you could burn the candle at three ends and Joel children in jobs and starting new business. So how how, how did you integrate that? What do you recommend? What do you see in patients? What's the beginning step here that people are already sick but have to get their their minds right there, spirits? Right. So that they can begin to make realistic decisions. Realistic informed choices in terms of healing. Question. So the I'd say that it would it comes right down to it that the core issue for just about everyone myself included is mealy getting a lesson on self care and also boundaries. You'll find that the individuals that really struggle, the most are the ones that are so credibly hard on themselves because they can't be they can't be this person that they were for others, or the person that they saw the thought that like the image show, the person that they thought that they the person they think they should be that should be going be able to do all these activities be able to go do. All this work be able to maintain any schedules, having a hard time saying no to others. You know, having being able to say, you know, these are individuals that want to do so many different things were able to do a lot of things. And so mentally emotionally. It can be very crushing when you can't go even like if you were someone who was a bike rider, avid, bike rider hiker. In, you know involved in activities, and you can't do that anymore. There's, there's a grieving, and that Penn alost in fear that, that you're not gonna be able to do that again. So for a lot of people to total change of their self concept, depending on how long the illnesses is, is allowed to, you know how long that goes on for somebody. So the first piece of it is going to be that, that self care piece of, of being able to, to say, no, I noticed that individuals who you know, are able to, to step back in reel. It in and realize what the priorities are like, what really they only have so much real estate only so much real estate that we can think about that we can be involved in on a daily basis. And if we're spending a lot of time with thinking about all the things we can't have that were not able to do who were letting down. We're letting ourselves down letting kids down, you know, a leading partner down. I just can't get well. Well, you know, I can't do this. I can't do that. And you spend a majority of your real estate, your thought form real estate thinking about that, then that is going to have an impact on the physical body. And there's a field of study called second year immunology which studies the, you know, how our thoughts in packed proteins expressed by yourselves and how our nervous system works in that integrates with the immune system. So if, if those things are not if we're spending a lot of time, thinking in worrying the other component of this. I know I might be might be a jumping around your little bit. But another is individuals who win. They have lime spend a whole bunch of time focused in on, you know, trying to find the next cure trying to I think that over research. So then again, they're spending all of this time in chat rooms in all these places trying to completely immersed in sunk into it to the point where they. Lose themselves in than they spend the rest of the time feeling the sense of loss in there's no place that supports them through this, that, then you look at community. It's reflecting back this somebody that will you want you over this yet. You know, why aren't you better yet? Are you're not seeing, you know, maybe your doctor isn't giving you the right treatment. That's why you're not better yet. Maybe you're not try this my aunt my aunt Josie. Tried this, this is gonna cure, you it made her better, you know, or and, and then it gets to point where people get isolated because then if they do share how they feel after a while they're not getting a very supportive response, because people's expectations socially that you should be over something or done with something don't match with somebody's actually experiencing. So then they, they, they become more withdrawn, and you know, kind of more isolated. So I know I kind of went off on a lot of chances on that. But that's, that's the discussion very interested in and you bring up a very interesting point, I haven't. Said this explicitly on this podcast podcast yet. But I'm going to start encouraging people to go on information. Hyatt. Into into limit you really don't need to know fifty different lime treatments, you need to know the one you're working on now and then plan b if that doesn't work. And after that, stop, you know, if you do have to go to plan B, then, you know that you can research, another one or whether to practice you whether you're doing it yourself or whether you're working with the practitioner and end I there, there is so much out there and in everything has worked once for everybody, and everything has not worked for somebody, and you will find all that information on the internet, and you can't ride more than one horse at a time, unless you're in a circus, and we don't want to be in a circuits. We wanna get cured from from y disease, so with that in your practice in your experience, how and I know that another is no straight answer for this. But in general gross generalities here. How long for treatment dally do give before you start thinking, well, maybe it's time to try something else? So. A typical average treatment time we're talking about chronic Lyme chronic tick borne diseases yet, I'm not even talking about from, like from coming into your office to be completely cured. Thank you very much. I'm talking about when, when should you begin to see some positive feedback yet. So if I'm just starting off with a patient and getting them started on a medication. Typically in this may be their first time attempting to treat line, usually the first two to four months, or the most difficult with something called her timer response. Time reaction or a Yar ash hurt simul reaction named after scientists that discovered that people were having reactions with certain infections, where inflammation would go up and have they'd have more difficulty while while treating those infections. And it in that same that typically that must've happens with Spira Kate infections like syphilis in there, of course, with lime diseases fire, Keith infection. So people typically were kinda be on up and down roller coaster. After the first two to four months, usually meet with patients, every two months, unless they need me sooner in between hand depending on an urgent situation and the reason why the time period seem so long as because I, I need people to be on the meds for certain period of time in order for me to be able to give them information and give them feedback. That, hey, y'all K know by the first visit let's say two months in, I usually tell people that I expect to see something improve some things are going to be worse. And then something's, you might get some new symptoms, you didn't have before, or you know, but there's gonna be some shift there somewhere the other end, that's in the next pretty much to me, that's like a good prognosis that they're running with the pack. If somebody comes into see me, two months in there on medication A medication regime natural medicine blended with antibiotics or just natural medicine alone. And I'm not seeing any change has been no change in symptoms. Then, you know, then I usually will end up changing what has what it is. I'm doing so as long as I'm still seeing change as people move along and come back and see me. It's sort of taken by case by case basis with every kind of chunk of time that I see someone but if we're still seeing progress in their symptoms. I'll usually keep them where they're at maybe tweak, a few things depending on if something's coming up with their digestive system. Were, you know, their, their hormones or something of that ager and get to a point appoint a plateau, where things kinda stay the same or regress, pretty negatively in? Stay pretty consistently have symptoms that are more difficult than they stay more persistently consistently versus just like a flare like a hurt time response that obviously, I change change the medication regime, again, that might be adding different changing the antibiotic that might be changing the natural medicine that might be taking away the antibiotics today for two or three patients, you know that I saw today about twelve patients today for two or three patients it was. You know, it was saying, hey, you know, your antibody storm really seem to be working very well. Let's try doing all natural only. And then had if you follow patients, where I've done that by that, if you couple months ago when they're doing fabulous. So, you know that that's typically how it goes is far as as treatment goes with patients. It is more of an individual basis. But I hope that gives a good idea kind of what I expect to see what other doctors, you know, I think kind of I from what I gather follow that same, sort of patterning. In the two month window, that's long enough and to allow things to run the course of long enough for your body to respond and to get to get some idea. And again, I'm not looking for total cure, but I think we do run into I'm sure you've had those patients to where they've been on a treatment regimen for six months or a year. And there's been very little shift in anything and, you know, they're being told well just hanging there at some point that you just it doesn't make sense now. That's not the I have there are, you know, that particular style of docs that treat this in not mine. I you're still diplomatic. And there's probably don't agree with how I you know, would treat something. I have I have to be very humble because, you know, we'll of course, aided, I'm gonna get schooled somewhere along the line if I right when whenever we got for your God sends a patient, along just to remind us, right? And it does happen. Yeah. So I understand that. But, but the, the point the point is and, and, you know, in your case, you've got the you've got the personal experiment experience clinical experience, and your that helps definitely I think, really people begin to struggle, and then can go down the rabbit hole of trying to find the perfect the perfect solution, the silver bullet that's going to cure the line, which we all know that, for the most part, once it's chronic it isn't cut. You're not just dealing with lime. You're dealing with eighteen other things as a. Hardwood says, but, but I think there needs to be some realistic understandable. I need to be taking another close. Look at myself in my health, and, and tracking it to, you know. So when you're take notes, so you, you can look at patient, look back. Okay. This is improved a two months. You may not remember it. But when I came in, and they'll say, oh, yeah, I remember that, that has gotten better. And so I think it's important that, that people do that as well. And not to track, I think tracking every day makes you crazy. There's just you know, once a week, it's probably too much to. So, you know, once a month, once every two months, something like that taking some form of assessment has visiting your practitioners is it sounds like really smart thing to do. So thank you for being willing to put an even though yet qualifications on putting a, a timeframe on that. And in that also want to kind of bring this conversation toward close. But before we do that, one of the things you bring up in your book is a blocked to healing and it, you label it as a spiritual block. And that area is. So, you know, we throw around the words spirit, and really, it's kinda like energy in my world. It's, it's, it's used in so many ways by so many people that's almost become meaningless. But you mean something quite specific by it? Yeah. Well, I think so we are way more than we know about ourselves like we, you know, we're we are bigger than we than we understand. And we are more powerful than we understand, and part of what's happening on many spiritual fronts with different religions also with the new age movement is people trying to wake up to that trying to find their way back to that. And trying to find that way back to understanding having communication with our bodies in having communication, with higher aspects of ourselves, you know, with the whole community with feeling connected. You know, with ourselves and with the greater the greater picture. And so when it comes to our, there are decisions that get made that are not even conscious decisions on, on a on a soul level, I believe, than I've experienced enough with patients. I practice Shimada keeling arts as well as other energy medicine modalities, in have been training in that for several years and continue to in probably will continue to Volve that for the rest of my life, as it is just it's a practice just like you know, just as medicine is the practice in it's different form of medicine. But it goes more into, you know where, where are we not hearing ourselves where we not consciously aware where we have actually made a choice, and again, not a choice. It's it, it's a very delicate place to go and have a conversation, a lot of times when you start going into this conversation, people might jump to thank are you saying choosing to be sick? Or are you saying, you know? This is my fault, you know, earned off by the idea of having the conversation, especially the very angry in, you know, have a lot of trauma around being told that they're making this up, and that, they're, you know, so, but it's about getting into the unconscious in subconscious level of what is what kind of decisions are we making in that kind of Behi behind the curtain, you know, but in, in the more in the shadows in bringing that more to the forefront and this isn't just stuff that it's, it's incorporating stuff that's happened to us in this lifetime here since birth, you know, traumas, things like that, that we didn't even know that decisions were sort of made that now a disease comes into the body in lands in the body, and we have certain ways, we think, feel in energies, that we carry frequencies that we carry based on things that we've experienced in that choices we've made out of surviving those experiences because I mean, you know. Varying degrees, people have more traumatizing lives versus less versus others. But what somebody views as being traumatizing, what's important. It could be something that somebody else who is survived horrific, you know, refugee crises in had seen terrible things you know, murders happened in front of them have had terrible abuses in atrocities really could have honestly, the same type of experience with somebody who might have just, you know, witnessed something that we wouldn't consider to be that big of a deal, but to that person that was a major trauma for them. So then a decision gets made specially in use that can alter and change, how we're going to respond to a certain infection when it comes into the system, and how much that infection will become magnified or how, how is that partnering? We can't control that, you know, if we're talking about tick-borne Z's, if it decides it's gonna make us lunch. You know, make us their dinner, we, we don't have control over that if it's going to happen. But once the disease comes in. Especially if you get multiple bites over time and it's not dealt with there is a physical component there. It's not just psychological spiritual. But if somebody feels disempowered by the fact that we can't control how fast line is going to move to the physical body by just using medications and taking stuff from the outside world. How do we empower somebody from the inside out? So by trying to go inward and help someone try to find those links to anything that they're holding onto that are blocks on belief systems. Even so one of the methods used is applied kinesiology that one's very well known. It's muscle testing. A lot of people use that for different in different ways you can start to ask the body. Hey, you know. You know, do you want to be well in the personnel ask the person laying there. You know, I'll ask verbally and they'll say, we'll of course here like a minor table, it you think I'm like paying for your time. Why would I be here if I didn't wanna be well, and then I asked the body, the body says, don't and then we go back and we start to trace will wear that original belief you know, about not being worthy about what which Royce did you make that you felt like you didn't deserve to be well. This is just one just one example. There are wounds that we carry that are not just hours that we have in this lifetime. But also that follow in our family. So there's tons of research coming out now on trans generational. Healing entrance. Generational trauma. You know, the population that gets the most research, done, of course, they're doing a lot of it with mice because they can unfortunately traumatize mouse or mouse, mother. And then follow the pups in. We can see that in a very sinked amount of time that we watch unsteady, but as far as the human population, most of that's done with them tracing. Tracking holocaust survivors with certain genetic so genetics is another term that we're seeing become popular in more out there, because it is about people taking being able to step more into taking personal responsibility and trying to trying to take their power back. You know feel empowered about not feel disempowered in like we're stuck in a body that sick. Network stuck here in that we're supposed to, you know, there are times in many, many times where we need to surrender and be, you know, an accept that this is what's going wrong with our bodies, but there are ways to do that in a way where we can also empower our selves at the same time in being acceptance that there is suffering going on. But look at how my is there something else going on that could ease my suffering is there something I'm holding onto so no. Again, I could go and talk about this hours. So I'll kind of all kind of rain in bring the horses back year of it. But I, I hope I answered the question didn't go too often to into the into something too big in heady. But the, the main thing there is that, you know, we can't deny that right now science starting to really corroborate and show things that, you know, Shimada practitioners in enter individuals with sensitivities in who've been doing energy work in acupuncture, in all these modalities that are. Entering into the different aspects of physical body n our energy bodies because we know we hear about the shockers and all that type of thing that, you know, in the nod in the meridians that data is stored there. And so how do we access that data when we need it the most, you know, when our health is really our bodies really going a different direction than our psyche wants to go. And how do we make the merged together so that, you know, how do we bring those two together so that the body can now start to benefit from the psyche being healed? You know, the soul. Absolutely. Again. I hope I didn't go. No. We don't this is a conversation way whose covers. So this is a conversation out in the world that it's probably going on for millennia for lots of people, but I recent it's kind of faded away a little bit. And as is just coming back to the baseline, let's say, and are kinda current awkward with the conversation. We're just we're not fluent in it. It's not a common experience. That's talk a whole lot. I mean, there's tons out there, but there's, there's so many different ideas that when we do talk about it is, we're fumbling a little bit like a toddler walking just it's not a confident, stride of, of a twenty one year old. It's, it's a beginning conversation. So I think it's important. Why ask you about that? Is it so important to consider ways that were not well, or ways that, were that, that are healings block? Let's put it that way that interrupt their healing that like you said is inter. Unconscious and because of our blinders for studying herbal preparations, the, you know, the herbs may or may not touch the spirit. Depending on how we're using them in the context using them in and just focus on. How do I open up this particular detoxification pathway or had why support these anti-oxidants or what's the best way to kill the Busia or support my body? That, that limits us and the people who've been stuck for many, many years, it need to take expand the vision need to expand the possibility of, you know what what's really holding you back here. And I to kind of bring this home, she wasn't patient of mine, but I had interviewed her a couple times on the on the podcast, this lovely young women. She's Danish or something way up from that corner of the world and had lime terribly just terrible terrible. And what finally flip. The switch for her was. She did a, a mental training program, especially some, some brain repair, and training. And she she learned how to manage brain, and that she said, once she got into this basically, listening to recordings and doing some exercises on our own. It's like she felt so much better. It was the right medicine at the right time. And it had nothing to do with taking a nother supplementary or or antibiotic and I think we need to keep like you said, we're bicker, we're bigger than we think we are there's more going on than with we are. And if we're stuck, it's probably not about the stuff. We know it's the stuff we don't know, or the stuff we don't know that we don't know. And yeah, we don't know what questions to ask. We don't know that we can ask those questions, you know, in Sobat, that's the interesting piece too, when you bring up. So we look at herbs right now. Science period research is really looking into studying more herbs in their properties and everything else. But then you have a whole subset of cultures indigenous cultures and individuals who studied plant spirit medicine who really understand how to communicate with plants, you know. And, and we know plants respond to human interaction when we treat them a certain way we say certain things to them, we know. We have that interaction with them. So what does that feel, what is that connection that we have with them and also going back to the patient? You were talking about, you know, we really have so much more power in rebuilding. Ourselves having the patients to allow our bodies to rebuild. I think the big piece is also patients and patients runs through everything that we've discussed in regards to treatment time in regards to, you know, being on information, you know, information, cleanse detoxing elected permission cleanse. It's also I'm stealing that. Yeah, we're we're there's I mean, I would say, even line just take lime out of it, and you ask anybody. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And even as a doctor I can't keep up in. I feel like I read constantly and I still feel like I can't keep up on the latest thing in the latest thing in the latest thing of this coming out that coming out in it feels even more fast and furious now than it did. When I first started practicing to try to keep up with how things keep changing different opinions about things, you know, the stem cells in extra zones, and in this therapy met there, be trying to keep up with all that. Sometimes I all I can do, just sit back and go, okay, what do we know to do in calm down, just have a discussion with this patient and just get back to basics you know, sometimes you just gotta pull it back in, you know, sometimes you just can feel overwhelmed. And so the but the impatience is what's motivating that, you know, we want. We want right now. Want it fixed right now. How come it's not fixed right now. There's gotta be something else is gonna fix this right now. And our brains are really starting to become wired about one, you know, based on the technology, so fast at wanting everything so fast in wanting it, so the, the patients piece on all levels, but the mind body spirit, and then our interaction with microbes and how long it takes to recover recoup. The big piece, I think for everybody to when you asked about the thing for patients is, is the self care. But also patients is a big one in I I'm right up there with somebody that constantly has to work on that. So. With every technology. There is a lesson or a rebound or some other technology needs to come in behind it in clean it up, and we have created a massive technology. It was not since the written word. We don't think of writing as technology, but it was when I was complaining about something years ago, my daughter who's studying ancient Greek at the time told me, you know, that's the same thing. They said five thousand years ago when writing was introduced in Greece, and they claimed it was going to ruin the culture and destroy storytelling so forth. And so on and one sense they were right. You know it did we did lose that quite a bit. But it introduced a whole nother writing has been a wonderful powerful tool. So I think we're in that kind of evolutionary societal change right now, which makes things either. Even more people in, in dealing with simple things like a simple, quote unquote, simple thing, like a chronic infection, like lime in all the friends at come along with it. Okay. That degreen span before we can't. We can't go without plugging your book and I wanna plug it hard because it's an awesome book. Tell us just a little bit about your book, where can people get it is on Amazon is on audio books on the kind of good stuff. And then how can people get in touch with you, and you do phone consults or did they have to drive up to New Hampshire? Well, they can they can find the on WWW greenhouse medicine dot com, and I would say, yeah, I do tend to wanna meet with people that are a little closer in here to where I practice versus doing something where I'm treating somebody across the country. So don't tend to do phone consults per se as a as a practice with, like telemedicine at this point, because I will on case by case basis with patients, but typically need to meet with somebody in person. I. In. Let's see here as far as the book the book is rising above lime disease in its, but it's available on Amazon, kindle and Barnes and noble. And it's not an audio book, yet, I've been trying to get my publishers to have been talking with them. So we're in discussions with that. Because main motivation for wanting audio book, is that a lot of line patients have a hard time reading do better with audio so I've been trying to, to push for that to happen. So hopefully that will happen. And yeah. Side of that them they go. There's me. But the book it sells really is meant for patients families. Doctors, there's a you know, I did a ton of research on the latest research on herbs. And you know what's, what's happening with lime disease? I try to stay current as I could. So it definitely could be helpful with practitioners that are treating us or those that are just getting started, or those just wanna take a look and see what, what I'm up to. There's a lot of tables in the back that have the different herbs in how they should be used in, in dosages also what they're, they're helpful for as far as citations, as well on that. So it's really just the main motivation for the book was that what I pictured in my mind was somebody who's by themselves. Let's say in the middle in having just anxious in frayed feeling very alone that, you know, they had my book in could read it that it would help them feel better. And or if they wanna have their family member understand, or their friends. I understand what they're going through, and they don't have it in them to try to explain it all, or maybe their families, or friends are don't wanna hear it from them, necessarily, or kind of not falling on deaf ears. But if the hero from somebody else, so sort of as an advocate at spreading, what I feel is really solid information on what's going on. And so that, that was my main motivation for writing it. It's amazing book in what I love about it is backup here. Just a little second little context is. So we've been doing this podcast now for going, it's almost five years, you'll be like the two hundred thirty fifth interview or something like that. By the time it comes out and. Kind of started off just well, let's kinda just get started end in interviewing people, both patients researchers practitioners what became very clear is. There's no clear path in you get cancer and doctors like in. You said the earlier, there's no cancer. There's a path like you may not like the path that doctors Jews for you. Right. But there's a very clear path in these are the steps you do. And these are the people we bring in here treatment options lime disease like you said, once you get past the first two three weeks month to month and you're still sick. There's nothing out there. So people aren't really and doctors don't have this to practitioners have, there's no road Pap, and your book is the closest we've seen to really feeling in what we believe the steps for the roadmap. And that's that's remarkable. So you know, it takes you from the very beginning takes you get. Your mind, right? It takes you through diagnosis possible, other diagnosis preparing for treatment. You know that's so very important. And you can kind of prepare for treatment as you're getting treatment. And then, you know, the different ways to treatment treatment, and you really begin to break this all down, and then, you know, Reids resetting your expectations what to do and how to keep going. So it's really it's fabulous. It's a fabulous book, and I really can't recommend it highly enough. I'm touched. That's, that's an amazing explanation of the book. I thank you so much. You're welcome. You can tell that this. I get this, you know, lime disease is kind of on the edge right now where five years ago. And you've you've been here long enough that it was just one of those fringe diagnosis things. And now there's enough attention that it's -tracting the kind of the second generation and the people who wanna get in on the, the gray. Train so to speak. Right. So that a lot of people throwing their hats into the ring with say half baked, but they don't have the full understanding of the disease yet. They've got some good ideas that good people, but it's incomplete and you clearly have probably closer patient to right at and been through really time. You really see. Everything that's connected to it. It really. So I'm, I'm glad you you're you're able to hear my compliment that take it in because it's sear. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna I'm gonna keep you all keep this on tape. So when I'm having a bad day, I'll just be like, okay, here you go. Outlay this back. Lovely to hear. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Aurora clip it for you. We'll send it along. My positive affirmation. Well, we all I just heard a story as somebody who's kept a treasure chest of thank you notes. And I think that's a we all we all need to do that to be reminded from time to time Dr Greenspan you've been incredibly generous with your time. And thank you for all the time and effort, putting your book together, it's going to help a lot of people. For taking the time to speak with me pre-stated. Thanks burned biting me on your show. This was a great episode. And you know, it really struck me especially when she was talking about setting boundaries that your habits really mean to changing as soon as you realize you're sick like the things that you've been doing that. You've can do without thinking, or kind of those maybe kind of self destructive habits that, you know, you can kind of get away with when you're mostly feeling. Well, they suddenly doesn't work anymore, especially when you have nothing left to give and suddenly you're civil year, it's like those damages become very apparent. A researcher named Carol Dwekat believe the she was at a university of Pennsylvania, but one hundred percent sure anyway, she did a lot of work on something called growth mindset, as opposed to a fixed mindset and had two young students and. Sometimes older students is well dealing with new information, but kind of like middle-age middle-aged our middle school aged students, and basically the students who love the grind so to speak who were praised for doing hard work in working hard in the long run were more successful because when they hit a challenge they kept on going, and healing is the same ways you need to develop a healing mindset, and that's critical. If you don't have a healing mindset all the antibiotics, and probiotics and nutraceutical 's and herbs in the world are not gonna get you better. It's you're gonna hit a roadblock and you will self destruct, you will fall apart something will happen, the most important thing that you can do is healing mindset. And that includes all the things Dr Greenspan talked about the boundaries that habits to reassess. And to know that you're not going to be perfect doing it. That's part of having a healing mindset is with not about perfection. It's about keeping going in the face of setbacks. That's the most important thing and guarantee you with lime disease and all the co-infections all the things you're gonna have setbacks just part of the nature of it. It's part of the roadmap late not to be surprised when setbacks happen. Speaking of the roadmap we told you how to get it. Go ahead over to lime ninja radio dot com. You'll see a button, there that says Lyman extras or at the menu at the top. It'll say extras click on that you'll see another link for it the lime journey roadmap and that will begin to help you map out what to do. So when you do hit a roadblock, you know what to do next is not the end of the world. So that your current protocol doesn't work. No big deal. You've got planned be right there. And the other thing allows you do go on information diet. We need to whole f. Episode on this there. He's field. They're much, much information out there. And you think consume it for five years? And you're listening to this podcast. You're overwhelm things like this podcast. And more, I'm talking about people selling things rather than sharing information. But even sharing information. Everybody's gonna opinion about the protocol that you're on. The only one who knows whether it's right or not for you. Is you and your body. You're going to feel better. You're not. And I love Dr wink methods give give it about three months. If you're three months in and it's not working, there's the time to begin to consider. Okay. Let's pull the plug and move on to plan B. That's why you need a plan b but you don't need CD f g h I you don't need to know eight thousand things you don't need to spend hours or days or weeks, researching something that you can't get to either because it's illegal in the state, you're in or because it's a sixty thousand dollar residential program in Germany, and your own food stamps, right? Like, let's, let's have a reality check here with the roadmap or if your heart set on getting that sixty thousand dollar German residential program making it up. I don't know what it really is. Then Howard going to get the money, right? How you going to raise the money there? Whether as a will there's a way. But put that plan together in place. That's part of your roadmap. That's part of your journey. That's truly what you wanna do. That's the next phase that you wanna do great. Go for it, but let's get organized about this. Let's get organiz out say be a little bit realistic. But if you need a big dream like who's me who am. I, I'm just a whole schmucks with Mike. To schmos with Mike. Speaking of schmos, if you like what we're doing here at ninja radio hit the subscribe button on your podcast at that way you won't miss any of this fantastic info. And if you really like what we're doing leave us a review on your podcast app. It really helps us reach more people like you. Yes, thank you. We've gotten two new reviews since we started begging for them, so we're going to continue to beg. Can we get it up to three this week? So please, please. Please head on over to tunes spend a moment. If you've got it on your phone, it's just that the bottom of the app there hit review at least hit the stars that's super easy. And if you have the brainpower, go ahead write a couple sentences for as we'd really appreciate it. Also, do you have any feedback suggestions for guests really anything, sending Email to feedback at wine ninja radio dot com? And last as you longtime lime niches. No, this podcast would not be complete unless we left you with the lime ninja factor. The day. Dave, you now last week, an injured got pulled over in Columbus, Ohio for doing fifty in thirty mph zone, but since he wasn't an car, they had to give him a ticket for jaywalking. Radio's purely public broadcast and is not intended to be personalized medical bites any individuals specific situation each individual his medical situations, unique and Limy radio should not be relied upon Endro considered as personalized medical advice on into radio's not licensed render medical and should be considered. Simply the public opinion of line, ninja radio and its guests recommendations on specific treatment options are not intended to address any listeners particular, medical situation, as always contact your physician before considering any new treatment.

Coming up next