The Orange and Black Insider Bengals podcast: Giant voids
Yeah and everyone welcome to another episode of the orange black insider bengals podcast. I'm anthony kazan's <hes> and i am joined <hes> kind of as the mystery man but right as usual my co host john barren johnny there how you doing buddy well. I'm giving you a compliment <hes> again you know for those obviously who have been tuning in live and who day everybody everybody. I'm seeing a lot of people started starting to join the live youtube chat. Who'd all of you good to have you with us. As as usually are as we record this show i just wanna throw this disclaimer out to those of you who may be new to this show or those who are longtime listeners and are kind of wondering what's been going on the last few weeks in terms of maybe a little difference in audio and for those who watch youtube a little difference in video that sort of thing youtube and google hangouts kind of for loop we had been using that platform for the past few years and <hes> they changed everything as of august first so we are kind of scrambling to come up with different <hes> to to keep up and and come up with the platform that something that resembles the platform that we usually <hes> have for you all what we're what we're trying to do. Obviously keep the live show component own it. There are a number of bengals fans. Join us live and we love interacting with them. We love hearing the comments. Obviously they love interacting with each other and joining live talking about the bengals goals in in our discussion topics. I love seeing john's beautiful face as well as his buddy randell. If you remember randall the the spelt gentleman behind john <hes> we you know obviously like to have him via video. The audio quality needs to be there and we're trying different software pieces. Were doing a lot of research coach trying to put this stuff together to make sure that we give a similar anti great product <hes> coming for going forward so thanks for being patient with us. The past ask few weeks were tying. The loose ends up. We have been working on things behind the scenes. Hopefully you're still enjoying the show given some of the things that have been happening but we appreciate appreciate your patients. We appreciate your listenership. Go ahead and subscribe to our youtube channel and all of our audio channels. I tune stitcher spotify. However you listen into our podcast. We appreciate that liza rating also if you want to get in touch with us and let us know hey yeah we really do appreciate the live component. The live <hes> <hes> chat component all that kind of stuff. We'd love to hear feedback on that or if you're more into just listening after the fact let us know that as well we wanna hear feedback on the show always looking to improve always looking to give a good product everybody so we appreciate everybody's support as we go forward. We have a jam packed show tonight right and just a couple of minutes. We will have ed valentine of espy. Nations big blue view the giants website joining us. You'll be joining us via phone and we'll be talking about at the upcoming matchup with the giants and the bengals the preseason home opener for the cincinnati bengals and obviously a a lot to talk about there will be talking about the performance against the redskins and some news and notes with some other players so <hes> excited to do that john. I want to thank you because i know you've been kind of working with me behind the scenes and being patient with things so appreciate all that you do my man then the guy's like my microphone is is fine like i might sound underwater the past couple of weeks my sound water episode but <unk> get audio's coming organs stuff right now and by various season have things slowly sailing that that is definitely the goal and we we do have i believe we have on the line speaking of our special guests. We have ed valentine from from big blue view there. Hey good <hes> we're doing. We're doing well. It's anthony kazan's on my co host john sharon so hopefully breath. You can hear us both pretty well. It's great to have you with us. Let's just let's just dive right into it. The bengals host the giants coming up here in the dress rehearsal. You and i have kind of engaged in conversations behind the scenes. <hes> i guess we gotta start here because there are some sour feelings about two particular other players potentially from both sides of the fence john jerry and bobby hart <hes>. I asked you this in a post. You graciously helped us out with the the the five questions but i'd love to hear you kinda verbalize potentially some positives from those players that bengals could maybe latch onto because those those guys seem to be having inside track to the left guard spot starting spot and the right tackle starting spot for the bengals. It's funny you have mentioned to you in some other forums. I can't jerry is not a bad n._f._l. Spell player all right at least he wasn't. I mean he's been out of the league krieger. I don't know why he couldn't find a job as backup somewhere a year ago. After after the giants moved on from him jerry started for the giants for at least four years. He's a decent n._f._l. Oh guard or at least he was he's. He's a decent pass blocker not a very good run blocker. He's a guy that that you know stays pretty quiet in the locker room. He's a pro. He's you know he's the guy that that. I don't have a problem with this. You know he just as the the giants developed their offensive line they they wanted better run blocking. They wanted more athleticism and they moved on from jerry but i i don't have. I don't have any issues with him as an n._f._l. Player i think the guy that that giants fans have issues with bobby hard for the simple reason that that in two thousand seventeen bobby heart good in front of me in in training camp and made the claim that he was the best rate tackling football out lost his job after six or seven games ask and by the end of the city didn't wanna play he he refused to practice or suit up for the for the final game of the season and and and got himself cut so giants fans have issues with v._r. So those are the only guys the bengals for your of guys and actually defensive coach this off season when the bengals hired lou interim defensive coordinator and assigned b._w._i. Which of those guys were youth johnston more about <hes> t money of things it to carry win by far kerry. Win is a guy that kyrie win plays really hard. He came to the giants. I think in two thousand wasn't fourteen as an undrafted free aging and you kept sort of looking at this guy and thinking. How does he make a roster every year because he's not all that talented allen did. There's nothing special about him. The only thing special about kerry winning hearts plays p plays really hard. He does anything anything you ask him to do. You'll play special teams and do a really good job of it is one of those guy that he's not going to star for. You not gonna put a ten but you're gonna put him on the field and he's going to give you effort. He's gonna give you everything that he has and for a backup guy. That's playing fifteen fifteen or twenty snaps in a game. You'll know what he's doing any gives you effort and you can't have curl more than that so for me by far it it carry win. I think he's a guy that bengals fans will like talking with valentine of big blue view and the valentine's view podcast. I was privileged enough to be a part of that. Both this podcast and ed's podcast are part of the s._b._a. Nation family of football podcast awed cast so great to have ed with us talking about the new york giants new york football giants talking talking about the dress rehearsal coming up. We'll get to the game itself itself in just a minute at again i'm going to i'm going to ask you a little bit kind of a similar question to what i asked for the five questions but i think it's still worth discussing and obviously that's luana room. Oh there's there are a lot of connections that were kind of brought up as we engaged in discussions discussions about this matchup in these two teams in these two teams really are closely related different conferences divisions all that good stuff so you now now and a remote in spending time with the giants but it's his really his first true stint as an n._f._l. Defensive coordinator <hes> you you know he was an interim guy so your thoughts on him. This is this inexperienced bengals staff including an romo in the post that he's going to be taking with the team. Mm-hmm is there. Is there some reason to be confident for from a bengals fans perspective with anwr coming over as the coordinator. It's just interesting because i think that the reason he ended up with this job is because taylor worked with anna room. Oh in miami miami you know a few years back. I was a little bit surprised to see in a room and get a job as a defensive coordinator. You're he seemed like we really got a chance to talk to him last year but he seemed like a very quiet. You kinda guy not got a guy that sort of jumped up in front of you and got noticed it. It's just hard for me. What kind of coach he is because he didn't have much to work mark with last year in the giants secondary. Just wasn't very good witch. Which when you look at the roster this year they completely turned it over the only guy who's back from last year's ginormous jenkins so it's hard for me to judge anteroom. Oh for the simple reason is in it that we only had a small sample size and the giants didn't really have much of anything to work with a year ago and we gotta talk about the quarterback man. What is the plan of being jones going forward this year and your expectations for him. I guess the short turbine. You're many well. I think my guess is we talk about gained three as a dress rehearsal but you guys have seen how innovative themes are treating the pre season right now. I'm gonna guess you'll see more daniel jones on on thursday night then you will be li- manning although petzschner were has has played that close to the vest every time somebody asked him about that he just always will reveal itself. You geico figure it out when you see so but i'm gonna i'm. I'm expecting jones to play quite a bit tomorrow. As for the long term plan everybody has a different idea of what it should be went. Daniel jones should take over. There are those who think jones should be the week one starter in arrogance to think that jones should take over the first time the giants lose two games in a row and you know there are those who think eli manning should be run out of town three or four years ago but the giants rate we are wrongly believe any lie manning still think they can win the u._i. Manning if they put talent around him if they put a good offensive line in front of him which they believe they've done for the first time in a long time you know finally given him an offensive line that it makes him comfortable way. I think this is going to go. Is your eye manning's going to start the season. As long as the season goes well for the giants as long as they're playing reasonably good football and as long as they're in playoff contention realistic playoff contention i believe he will continue to play if and when they fall out of contention or if they get off to a one six start like they did last year one and seven you start then there's no reason for many to play the knee simply have to go to jones and i think that's i think that's how it's gonna go comas. The giants consider themselves go to be a playoff contending team today with you like talking with ed valentine of big blue view and the valentine's view podcast part of the s._p. Nation family of podcasts which <hes> this podcast is part of as well good to have ed with us talking about the quote unquote dress rehearsal coming up here <hes> ed. It's it's really difficult to kind of. Sit here and talk about you know. What are you looking to see out of out of a preseason game. I mean obviously you wanna see the lower end depth chart guys you wanna see who maybe make some place to <hes> make kamenica rosser bid but these teams are kind of in a lot of people's is in a similar boat but potential rebuild coach early if not starting their new tenure with the team <hes> you know a lot of some veterans that are maybe on the hot seat a little bit so mean i guess what what are giants fans hoping you too and the giants themselves what what are they hoping to take away from this game because obviously the wins and losses don't truly matter in the summer but what are they looking to really achieve or take away aside from staying pretty healthy well. I think you always want in whatever limited fashion your starters play. You want to see something. That looks like competent football. Something gives you confidence going forward forward for example in the opening preseason game for the giants. Starting offense in the starting defense basically played one. You're you're on offense. The giants went three and out in on defense. The evil belong driving touchdown last last friday against the bears same scenario where the offense basically plate one series the defense played a little bit longer than that but but you gotta touchdown drive out of the offense and you've got a stop for a field goal you know out of the defense so so you saw you saw some better play. You saw some competent play and i think that's that's all you want. Out of. Your starters is something that looks like incompetent play but for me at this point won't be what tomorrow night will be nine days away from teams having to set their fifty three man dan rosters so it's all about looking for those guys at the end of the roster. You know those guys. Every teams got bobo players. Every tamed got decisions to make every teams looking for help across the league so for me. It's all about those guys who are going to win. Those last year roster spots you know one player on either side of the ball that bengal span should keep out for me. Not just off color has john roster. Who who is that guy in order to be name name no more for tomorrow night well. I don't know if i don't know if it's a guy that's exactly what you're you're talking about here but the guy that i think anyone across the n._f._l. Should probably be aware of at this point. What is cory ballantyne. The sixth round pick out washburn. If you know his story the giants drafted him in the sixth round. You went out that night with sprint twain simmons and they were victims of a drive by shooting in which ballantine was hurt. His friend simmons was was killed and this kid since he came back and since he rejoined the team this kid has done nothing nothing but shown class in the way that he handled himself in the way that he stood in front of the media and explained what happened you know he's tried to move forward and right now the amazing thing about this he he's not a sixth round draft pick he. He doesn't look anything like a six round draft. Pick out of a division two school. This kid looks like a player. This kid looks like a really good n._f._l. Player you'll see him at corner. You'll see him returning kickoffs. I think this kid he's a class that and i. I think this is going to be a really good n._f._l. Player i mean he's a great story just because of the of the background but but i think that in the end that that story might just become part of the part of the background because this kid can play so i i vaguely now. It's kinda jogged my memory a little bit. I remember that story so i'm gonna kinda end on this in. It's kind of a package question because there is <hes> there were a couple of questions by one of our listeners in our live chat. Basically asking a is from will smith is going to catch the ball for the giants wide receiver. If you know <hes> with golden tate suspended shepherd hurt who's left so i mean that's part of the question but the overarching question is what what are your the expectations for the giants. You know this game aside this preseason game aside. What are what are your expectations for. The giants going forward in twenty nineteen is is this a team that <hes> may may make a surprising playoff push because of some weakness in the division or in some turmoil in dallas or is this a team still that <hes> maybe a year away and will turn the reins over to daniel jones in twenty twenty parts of that the first part is is to wed receiver question and i think what you're going to see from the giants and even with golden state in the lineup after his four-game suspension benching. You're going to see a team. That doesn't rely on one guy. That doesn't force the ball to one wide receiver. I mean his greatest data's dealt beckham was when you watch the giants at times it was obvious that they were forcing the football to him to the detriment tournament of the offense may be to the detriment times of eli manning and and just throwing the ball in his direction probably at times when they shouldn't. You're going to see a team that spreads the ball around a lot more. They're going to try to to match up seek one barclay and in a lot of different ways you run game past game. I think you might see evan. Ingram who's in third year as tight end if he can stay healthy. I think we've only sort of scratched. The surface of what that young men can do as a pass receiver in the n._f._l. He may be the guy i wind up being the number one receiver on this team but i think the giants are by and large spread the ball around going to try to create a lot the traffic in the passing game with a lot of crossing routes in underneath stuff but droughts and and all of that kind of stuff and just try to create openings with the way the design the passing game so because they don't have that that one dominant imminent outside guy anymore even even with golden state and even with sterling shepherd so as for expectations for the season. You're you're right. I think you mentioned that the bengals and the giants are a little bit in the same kind of in the same kind of place where they're building. They're trying to they're trying to establish something and it doesn't look like much but they point to two thousand seventeen. I mean you know when when everything went sideways for the giants they won three games and they point to last year and they say we won five games and we should have one. We should have won a few more because we couldn't make stops on defense in the last two minutes of the game and they're probably right there in and i think this year they're looking at if they can win seven eight nine games in progress. I think that's what you're looking at for the giants rienscher not looking at a team. That's an eleven or twelve win team but i don't think you're looking at a team. That's three win team either. I think you're looking at it team that that it's getting better. That's got reason to think it's pointed in the right direction but might might be a year way. We've we we have to find out what happens. When daniel jones eventually takes over whether that's at some point this year whether it's a year from now we've got to find out what kind of n._f._l. I feel quarterback is but you know but i think there's reason for giant fans to think that they're going in the right direction. Well all of that sounds very familiar around us <hes> with the with the exception of the first round quarterback <hes> that's all of that sounds sounds really really familiar ed. Thanks for your time and <hes> just for our listeners. How can people find you find your work following you on social media <hes> and <hes> obviously listen to our little interaction not only on this show but from your show as well valentine's us podcast as you guys and you find links to it on on the big new website you can follow me on twitter at valentine underscore ed or at <hes> at big blue view <hes> you know it's big dot com for for anybody that wants to read about the giants so and we appreciate ear <hes> we appreciate you guys have having me on the show that <hes> that the anthony and i recorded earlier we actually recorded or earlier today that show tomorrow morning so it's a kind of a game date preview show so hopefully folks will give that a listen as well awesome well well. Thanks for the time and i know it's late around your your neck of the woods so appreciate you tune in you. <hes> you joining us tuning in and given all your insight and i i have to have some reason or enjoy enjoy the game tomorrow and we'll hopefully we'll catch up soon. Take it easy at valentine from big blue view the espionage in new york giants site so pretty pretty excited to have him obviously very entertaining guy very knowledgeable guy and does so go check out his podcast and we're excited to have him on ours as well <hes> pretty cool. We'll stuff and obviously that's of the stuff we have not been able to do given the fact that there's only been two preseason games so hopefully we'll get some more guests from the other side of the defense throughout the rest of what's left of the preseason as well as definitely during the regular season so our thanks to ed valentine <hes> again go check <unk> out his staff and if you're new to this show you can get this show on. I tunes on stitcher on spotify on google play. You can get it on a megaphone platform as well whereas on youtube and cincy jungle dot com. All of our stuff is there. This episode is brought to you by c._b._s. Sports h._q. So much sports it's t._v. Nowadays is full of made up trauma. It's a bunch of hot takes from people who don't even believe what they're saying just beating the same topics into the ground but c._b._s. Sports h. q. is here to change all that it's a network that streams live twenty four seven and their coverage is just focused on the game they bring you the latest news highlights previews and reactions to all the onfield the action their fantasy sports experts will give you the info you need to make the right calls for your lineup. No fake debates. No politics just sports for real sports fans the best news of all it's free. I don't mean free for a week or a month or if you have some special cable package. It's totally completely free for everybody eddie. You don't even need a log in just sports for real sports. Fans just opened the c._b._s. Sports app and watch anytime from anywhere on your phone or at home on your apple apple t._v. roku or fire tv. It couldn't be easier download the c._b._s. Sports app and watch c._b._s. sports h._q. Today when you start losing your hair there's no magical cure but there is a way to stop hair loss from happening in the first place. It's called keeps and it's a treatment. That's proven up to nine percent effective at reducing stopping further hair loss. You don't have to go to the doctor's office or stand in line at the pharmacy for prescription. He'll visit a doctor online and they'll send a medication right to you and indiscreet package keeps starting at just ten dollars a month. You don't have to go broke to avoid going bald to edit three guys will experience some form of male pattern pattern baldness by the time they're thirty five so prevention is key. The sooner you start using keeps the more hair you'll save nearly one hundred thousand men interest keeps for their hair loss prevention medication the more five-star reviews than any of their competitors so take action now and visit keeps dot com slash sb nation with our special offer. You'll receive your first month of treatment for free at keeps dot com slash sb nation. That's k. e. P. s. dot com slash sb be nation john. I guess let's let's rewind and then we'll do. We want to rewind and talk about washington. I i or do we want to keep talking about the giants. We talked to ed. I'll let you decide. I guess okay. Let's go chronologically logically. It's the it's the it's the responsible thing to do. I suppose so. The bengals got their first win in these act taylor era i mean. Do you want to count preseason win. Win is a win for but that's that's exactly right so they got their first win. Under zack taylor. There have been <hes> you know the the takeaways from that game. You are obviously mixed reid john. I mean <hes> you get a win. You get a win against a team on the road. You get a win against the team that you feel. Maybe talent talent wise is either a little lesser than you. Maybe around the same wavelength. Is you so either way. It's and it's a guy who's familiar with a lot of against a guy. I who's familiar with a lot of players on your team so you gotta like that but the penalties the poor play on the offensive line's still theme your thoughts talk initially offers you into really evaluate what was going on with all the palaces and yet discounters oculus son does the head referee would just take the the guns on camera were younger but we ever this like yeah it was. It was tough watching it. It's cardi greece's palley ap apparently after labor i drive at the end of the first drive served as the world every watching it got up working a lot of things in the two new stars michael jordan's injury and return some positive things pass protection for the most part was at the end of the order starting to move the ball better but i mean the storyline is obvious during filming in the back of the game looked so much smoother offense looks on or poise with him under center with the rest of the second team you read it took advantage of the reds second-string defense and there was a really big difference between i guess going up against washington back against kansas city back because obviously washington <unk> dangles b. s. seventeen nothing second half run mostly under finley so that was going to see for him to release absence of as the backup quarterback and the guys who spent drew sample at a lot better in this game naming. We'll actually showed after having a nice performance against the city should have of sound because again that probably brown and the defensive a lot more ask. I live a lot better proceed without or carlos or carlos awesome carry win jordan willis they booked up midway dream <unk> like i copied linebacker <unk> <hes> in preseason so far so definitely not a takeaway specifically goes with the first or graphics played a live michael. Jordan played a lot of positives that guy's pretty quickly in a win it also that was later portion of the game so as you weigh the pros and cons in this game and i don't want to spend a lot of time talking about it because we've got more to get to but obviously it's a win and it's it's. It's a game so we gotta cover it but i mean as you go through the pros and cons of the game right. You mentioned in a lot of them. The rookies getting playing time and playing well at times. The alex ericsson punt return some of the big the big the big plays from different people bowl you go on the other side the sloppy play the inconsistency of the offensive line continued concerns there again i. I got to ask this from probably asked you last week i mean where are you more leaning towards after now a better performance and to win probably against a lesser team but on the road <hes> despite all the issues and some of those positives we've seen are are you. Are you more encouraged orig- this week obviously because it's win or you still kind of saying it's preseason a lotta guys out of the lineup. I don't know what to think. Firms <unk> how inconsistent this team is capable of being. I'll be tweet basis. Obviously having all those guys continued to be out to rest her compassionate reasons that definitely cloud cloud evaluation against but again it really could depend on just sooner plan on we tweeted tweet basis and what works and what doesn't yourself to figure out how they gonna just to you know things <unk> end up going the way they want to running. It continues to not <hes> workout early in the game is we're going to be on you know more pass centered offense than the beginning when you don't have i for asia green on john rouse. How can that be and yes <unk> them. Be consistent is dumping surprises. He adds moment so business to start. Is nothing really blows out the water every year. So you mentioned finley's performance at believe. He was twenty of twenty six for for one hundred and fifty yards two touchdowns zero interceptions last week against the chiefs. He had one touchdown one interception but i think he completed like his first. You know our many benign passes or so so a pretty solid performance aside from a late interception against kansas city in week one. Is this a product product of a you know on the flip side. Eighty dollars throws that pick six. There's debate on who you wanna blame on that but <hes> <unk>. I guess with finley are are you chocking that up more to you know pretty pretty decently talented college player who is now making leap to the pros and going up against reserves and playing well as he should against reserve players or i. I don't know i mean are are you. Are you overly confident in what you're seeing with ryan finley at this point in time or is this just kind of fool's gold at the end of the day when you look at what's been doing nothing to out of the ordinary now the things that he's doing well this stuff. We're not because he looks very common. Poised auburn. He's able to reset his designs out very rudimentary things enough were back still in the fact of the is twenty is all going to be twenty five in december. He was now the one of the oldest prospect community n._f._o.'s year so national league in six years of cost <unk> time to develop a certain trace but the things that he doesn't doesn't do as by he's going to continue sale. The benches arm is not that lie accumulate chris down bill that much i think jake moscow of tweeted this out shortly shortly after the game the difference between him finley thrown outside the numbers in between the numbers is very vast majority of image production come from honestly sleet became really see everything without you know from from the broadcast angle but most of the time he's really checkable down eighteen and everything in front of him and not really pushing the ball the big red flags in the fact that doesn't have tremendous arm strength get any kimberly fence windows and some of those those he's making right now those windows those will be a lot harder when you have a sturdy out there in the also the things we received right now we can be hurt by these things that really supposed to do well early in the numbers the great but we're not where he challenged dog if they're still sending a this year or maybe new york that so we'll be fine they do be clear and to be crystal clear. I was not that was not the implication of i know you don't think that but art right right right <hes> and it's been a it's been a week for comments from the peanut gallery. I'll tell you <hes> so so i guess my thing when i look at this game and i look at the scope of the preseason with the cincinnati bengals because i like the fact that they're resting guys. <hes> and dave dave told us right. I mean they've been open. If we're healthy we think we can win right and so. How do you stay healthy restroom important players. You rest guys who are nicked up. Your guys are fall under both categories but i still worry that some some of these guys even if they are veterans. Some of these guys aren't going to potentially see any preseason action. Is that a valid concern or is that some especially for a veteran or do you feel that that is something where it's maybe just kinda like well. I mean it's just extra snaps in. It's more risk why why do that in the one guy that both john ross fact that a lot of talk about him in the youtube jeb by the way like ross pricing seasonal vic- gets help the next week maybe driver to for four but like i don't really care if she doesn't play these players leap out there all same thing probably the last night kind of point <hes> adrian up playing again. I want to go on sale. The osce can't but i think it was the guy like ross you just wanna see how alleys in the system as much now he's grew because he's issuing them as always bit whenever office he wasn't as the com- the whole confidence isn't going to match league without playing so you wanna see there'd be just wanna see you can actually produce something you something to fall back on in eh on your competence with so for me the one guy that i wanted to see out there i want to see this week has practice this week but unfortunately he got pushed off the uh up until next week. Circus artists another guy who said that <hes> he might even stay on the unable to perform us through drought. I six weeks of the season so what we w evanston well in his absence established as that started but as far as guys who just haven't been able to blurt the ryan anderson. I have no idea what he is unlikely. They're causing within carl. Carl was same thing but yet really rothley against the one guy not happy because he's not widely her going to have any right and so you know week one comes around. You've been resting these guys. The hope is at most if not all of them are available so that you actually are trotting out. Maybe even a better product on the field the old what you've been showing in the preseason one more kind of question slash topic to talk about before we move onto another. You know this the first two weeks in his specially we we mentioned earlier when we kind of started talking about this game. The flags and the penalties are just ridiculous where i sit ah some of them are very ticky tack calls and this year it seems as if the offensive or holding is going to be called quite frequently but it also there's a little bit of an indictment that has to be pointed out that you know the talent talent level at certain spots that are gaining these penalties <hes> that's worrisome but overall. I kind of think that it's a little bit flag. Happy maybe even the reps working working out some kinks in the preseason but also some issues in terms of personnel ability level all of that your thoughts. It's not going to be surprised about seeing flags and breezy suspicious. What happens yearbook hammer hammer down. Guys has that you know this season. We're gonna fly now the same exacting in the rate of the season but looking back on some of the holy cost line the muslim if not all we'll probably not gonna call season honestly if you wanna get into the whole specimen. What is i see a hold that mic overall what constitutes the address could be looking looking for because most of the time it's like is this if the guy's hands are too wide and his the defender from sending again with her melissa must've olds from talking about c.'s john miller even one. The defenders had no problem getting off. It was just the fact that happened a little bit later. They're it just looked like he was prohibitive with with outside and when you look back on replace or not necessarily olds what's that you normally see in irregular n._f._l. Game and i think one of the guys last season posted at sixty percent of komo running place at all except one were on running for that as well but obviously wanna see a lot of flags in preseason because it's already increases the overall <unk>. That's the nature of greece is going to be a lot of flags wrestling hammer the idea that you know please don't do this season so is unwinnable battle for for years. I guess through it. I guess i don't think most goals <unk> all holes that we saw on weeks. You will be called so far. They responded loss pretty much one of the worst nights possible for a for a player <hes> ah speaking of c._j. Who's alma <hes> one catch one yard in three penalties two of which i think at least two of them were hold so <hes> not not not exactly how you wanna drop night for for your newly inked free agent acquisition there but re aquisition. I guess i should say but <hes> <hes> you know overall. There are positives or negatives <hes> it's preseason so sloppy. Play is to be expected a bit but bangles get the win against the redskins twenty three thirteen. Thanks to a couple of big. Special teams plays in some good play by ryan finley. A couple of nice plays on defense dance and obviously holding a team to thirteen points on the road is a great improvement after allowing thirty eight points on the road to achieve team the week before i'm going to segue i'm gonna i'm gonna try and segue from the washington game in into the giants game with some specific news about a player that i wanted to address and we wanted to talk about one of one of the fan. Favourite players has been christian westerman herman. A guy is especially since the departure of of you know kevin zeitler whatever's been going on with clint boling. He is a guy that a lot of fans had hoped hope to see get some extensive playing time for whatever reason there are a lot of rumors or some other kind of rumblings. He has not been able to crack the starting lineup and but when he she has whether it's in preseason or brief stints in regular season games he has played well for those who do not know really over the last week there was. I don't know if you want to call it a threat. I don't know what you want to call it but christian westerman basically left the team on a on an exempt list and was contemplating in retirement. We don't really know the details as to what we don't really you know. It could be a family issue it could be. He's lost lost the the love of football. I i don't know he he may feel that. He's way too far down the pecking order of the depth chart. I want to get your thoughts. Let let let me get get your thoughts initially on what's going on there. He he has returned to the bengals so <hes> he has made a decision to continue to work out with the team. We'll see if he ends up making the team in where he's at in the depth chart but i wanna get your overarching thoughts on what's going on with westerman where he's at in the depth chart battle and then. I've got another question for you but let's start there. John i think with western hit supporter of his like you said always been on the offensive organization manage because fans just see what happens on sunday for the most part like you said he's always been a game where you get the job done practically one of their better offense climbing for the past three or four years when that he has a dog so promise lesson. We're always you know how meshes with the the rest of the n._f._l. Coaching staff and there are some people who initially save me eat dogs like jim turner has something to do with this in the valley western retirement kemper retired and maybe that maybe is passed under w but then western is he's already had coaches and he's never been able to exceed it has section of the of the line so i think there has to be just a cartesian of that doesn't your mental psyche as a player as someone who was a very good college players who was drafted sullivan probably should be starting at this point has never been exceeded anything more than just the back of business one four years in the n._f._l. It's a little bit longer than the average but you just never are able to exceed your own expeditions yourself for whatever reason and it's not just one coaches three coach coached him and in that opportunity so initially when when he was dealing with these personal issues whatever my first thought was that he just he just realized that he just doesn't have it takes what it is. He's just doesn't have that driving mortar really ascend were wants to be but the fact is back now puts every one of the things up in the area the elliott knowing what was going on it was something temporary <unk> that he he could play through but now he has some sort of surgeon conference to sell them and both five or six days missed honestly like a lion i want to save set but it will be so now for him to work as laid back on barossa then if he stayed paid and trying to battle for back spots but regardless it was tough for him to really you know how they like michael jordan how much how much rested john lewis. It's getting even more of a question about what really is. One of the bengals plants in already been on the roster three years and honestly. I don't think he's all of a sudden bad for whatever reason but he's on the field honestly i i had a lot to do with his initial decision and yeah right. I mean on one from one standpoint. If you wanna talk about the passion of football and all of that <hes> anybody who's played sports at any reasonably high level can probably tell you that practices aren't that fun but the games are awesome you know and and if you're practising practising practising practicing you're not really getting any game time <hes> that may wear on you. Maybe that's what's going on. <hes> you know hopefully this second. Scenario isn't the case where it's something with his family or friends or something that caused him to not be able to concentrate on football. I think a lot of us who <hes> have had something happen to to them or something going on that is affecting them emotionally. It makes it very difficult to concentrate at work so <hes> you know that from all of that can be understood. The rumblings that we've heard before this incident has gone on here is been. He has trouble grasping the the playbook. Sometimes he's not getting the right blocking assignments. That sort of thing hasn't been truly substantiated but that some of the stuff. We've heard i guess i want. We're kinda. Wanna go next kind of don't want to but i think it's something that needs to be discussed because it may be a tin foil hat type of thing but clinton who retired he had a health issue. You got this this kid westerman who's contemplating retirement <hes> you've got you know ah the john jerry coming in late as a coach favorite. I don't know very jim turner effect. I hate need to bring up his past but there is a stigma there. There's a couple of stigmas air any of that is is it play his coaching style will playing favorites with john jerry any of that includes people who who didn't know mean falling as they knew that i wasn't a fan of hiring hiring determined for the things to happen in past and because of his tracker. It's hard to give him the benefit of the dallas. Something like this comes up but i'm not willing to jump to inclusion ultimately tied up of him. I think with perkins may purchase of berry practice squad caliber player who had a completely the outside chance to make the roster guys just like you know beat them back. Any more. I want to pursue other interests in my life and impulse not bad at the same thing with christian westmin- again like to have three offensive line coaches in four years and none of them seem to display any sense of doing it probably anger a lot of people in that situation you don't think of being being like everyday workers but jeffrey managers who completely underutilized you and you have no way of getting around that and and you don't think you have this mix of <unk> demand traitor released. It's like this and maybe whatever junior has done. A coach really pushed into that point. They're not sure what fully win this on the like who unfortunately i gotta go innocent until proven guilty. Yeah there is a comment or in the in youtube chad <hes> the aries three two three. What is his track record. Well we could go on for a long time. Go go go. Go look him up. Gogel elim <hes> and you can find some stuff that he's been involved with. <hes> you know i think obviously respected as a football coach <hes> on a variety of levels but that's <hes> <hes> you know that there are some other things at play here so that's why i guess that needs to be brought up but christian westerman is back with the bengals at least four now. We'll see what his chances. <music> are with making the final roster. This is the orange black insider bengals podcast. He's john. I'm anthony kazan's we have have had a jam packed show talking about the win against the redskins. We've been talking about the the giants game coming up. We'll continue to talk about that and then we <hes> had ed valentine from big blue view join us and and talk about all things giants the other side of the fence we got it. We got to hear from him. So that was pretty cool. You can get this show on itunes. 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I'm jason kirk and we're the host of the shutdown full cast your avengers of college allege football podcast it says in the script to riff on what that means and basically what i mean is its own spoiled every tuesday we talk about everything from cooking disasters pro wrestling the unfashionable pants we warren middle school we also do talk about college football every now and then like mascot fights announced fleeing the booth early and unfashionable pants that coaches where now if you want to take college football exactly as seriously as it should be taken subscribe for free on apple podcasts or in your favorite podcast snap john i guess it's time to time to talk about the upcoming matchup with the bengals hosting the first time they're playing at home in twenty nineteen the first home game with the zac taylor that paul brown stadium will have a bengals game so that's kind of exciting. Are you going to that game. Okay doc okay. I'm not either shocker but it should be an interesting game. <hes> you know this on paper. I think a lot of people would say. I mean especially because it's at home at the bengals should win this game again. Win losses in the preseason. Don't really mean all that much but you know. I don't wanna wanna sound like a broken record and ask you once again. You can watch and stuff but i'll ask kind of a similar question. I asked ed earlier. What do you think the bengals should be looking to achieve specifically this week. If you could pick out like two aspects that you would like that you think that they they will be focusing on and that they would like to walk. Walk away from this game and say we did that. We feel good about the result year giants nothing to be scared of things. I just wanna see some some form of consistency salisbury line <hes> we're not sure at least meet you are not sure about who's starting at left guard inside of the sweet they was billy christ in jordan taking revson center of respectively so that might be out there along with audrey smith and left tackle the sweet in oregon salivating cussin' but i think the focus price starts there and all the different defensible i i think one of charter remit say homework mark as much as possible without really adjusting how they won shape up defense i think nickel the most part of this character building for most this off season and <hes> limiting them out linebackers on the field is always for the bengals the surrounding joel berry in nickel says amid limiting number excluding asking butts off i think that the prosekey on terms of their own self evaluation and and at least competitive with giant cemex relatives i like you said it's kind of in the symbols and probably looking at last place by special in their respective versions of questions on about the future but overall the chinese team is not very talented and i didn't wanna say that front end but it's like they lost it back on the game. Come inside <unk> lost. You'll be leading a major monitors. Word of the defense is nothing special in the bengals off. It is at least terms on the or <unk> again suffered scary of won't be tremendously tremendously hard for the bengals crusher was a rebuff dolphins live unfortunately <unk> line. Isn't that the better than it used to be so this is a game in the regular season of the bengal should win from the regular season but i think they just wanna see some form of sold their line over them. Xbox scott's is i'll be there tomorrow night. <hes> have fun scott <hes> at least you'll probably see a lot of players play more extensively than some of the more higher profile players play more extensively than you have the first couple of games here but how how far do you think that this game is going to go in the determination of some of these open. Starting earning spots may be on the offensive line. Some of these back end roster spots or is just one of those rare preseason where you know. This is kind of an open competition thing new coach coach. It's gonna last four weeks before you know it takes all four games for the decisions to be made by this coaching staff awasthi situation like this the words of turner terrorists that they don't know him so ball snapped. We want sandwich osc alive five between the feinstein i i think i think we just assume that they're going to play this out and like you know under the last administration is if there enough like it was usually set by three week week three less refusing. The new office allows gonna be new seven carbon started. Eric garner tackled okay billy crisis pregnancy center bible joins probably gonna start with guard but the honestly don't know if those guys we can assume this being the competition but with new faces pre-everything kissing. Everything's really into the same because you can't have you can't feel bengals offer now without lingering hawking's wherever wherever he's hosting w properly in the annette starting high but you know the price eleven injury essentially story. There's a lot of unknowns right now. In terms of just the best position on on the of the defense paul george wilson carry win presumably. If only it'd be nice five presumably fighting that's five in and they keep in keep your brand the know how much brown plays early on the game because he was the first nicholas indicators well whether or not willis wing. It's the field. I mean indicators will house. The refuge with linebacker is gonna be when we get to the second <unk> cracking the reps in front jordan evans in base at that weakside linebacker spot nickerson in jackson still the fifth and sixth arbed <unk>. We're going to find out like you said starts going to play more aristide who fills the behind him over. We're gonna go good indication about where those vows are going for spencer meyer. There's a lot of talk by the way in the in the alive youtube chat in terms of what people are looking for <hes> better tackling and more tempo on offense will smith as <hes> l._l._p. Says i agree with will smith <hes> less penalties <hes> all that good stuff the question here. There's a question from spencer myers <hes> do we do. We need to see more from the offensive first team to understand this offense or zach hiding most of what will see in that that can be actually also oh <unk> asked about the defense because a lot of times defenses don't give they usually go vanilla throughout the preseason but <hes> i don't know do you do you buy into that notion. Uh i think we've seen more defense the offense specifically last week with how much how much stunts and different exotic russia they're using. It's washington that we're going to see going forward in game than skinny guys to opportunities astros not to carry auto started the brown person without jordan willis rental rental rambert men in providing some the saxo. I think defensively we've seen a lot of what's going to be in a regular season offense. I almost vanilla hovis right now. Because this is what it looks language doubt it is not really anything different last year so i think and we still have seen we've seen the full kim. Billion one-stop is is in particular because <unk> green and coding or playing for john ross christina doc. Id call out everything that you plan on for those starters with the the guys who are playing for them right now. The search do so. I think we see more of defense yeah so one of the things i'm keeping an eye on this week. <hes> in this was something we talked about. Maybe having a little discussion about doing a segment on but i don't. I don't think it needs to be harbored on that much. The the interesting way the bangles are approaching jeff driscoll. The school in his skill set. Obviously jeff driscoll's a really good athlete. He uses his legs while he's run the ball well he can. He can throw a little bit here as quarterbacks as has quarterbacks need to but <hes> i'm noticing that the bengals at least in practice are using him on special teams at wide receiver. Obviously is a quarterback act. It's almost like tatum. Hill of the saints tastes him hill if you if you're not familiar with him he's pretty big dude and he is a guy see that a lot of times on fourth and one he'll kind of do a wild cat type of formation. He doesn't things on special teams really unique player in the n._f._l. In a lotta autoways throwback guy in a lotta ways kind of a a creation of new innovative coaching. I is this. Is this how jeff driscoll's chris going to make the roster as a tatum. Hill kind of guy or is it. Just you know it's gonna be finley in dalton in that's that's that is going going to make the roster if he does go. They're going to carry if we're gonna keep driscoll. You can order by like you say using mary's other ways besides stacking dahlan's billion honestly but the thing about only carrying two quarterbacks that allows you to maximum of restraint slinky quarterbacks and you're able to keep similar receivers on key defensive levin's both carey when jordan willis any brown all of your assets so like i say trying to address they realized the only guy extended to the spot been wanting to be. You always going to make the matter of they need you. Did you have a very finley's there so they don't need driscoll as the quarterback doing right by him recognizing his extended beyond on the receiver especially as a running quarterback so i understand what they're trying to do but is it worth it for israel disappeared by you know detrimental to the roster in other areas of restraints in releasing potentially one or two very pointless at at your business. I'm not sure that it is but it's a really wanna before with plan. You is driscoll of the season on every single weekend of moldova's week for its be worth yeah. Obviously his roster spot might be determined upon egypt greens injury situation nation with they do on offensive line you mentioned maybe some of the guys that kill two birds with one stone from a roster spot perspective <hes> all that hestitate acetate be taken into account so interesting stuff with what's going on with jeff driscoll and a lot of things as the bengals are set to host the new york giants for what's known as the dress rehearsal so probably the most extensive action from starters that you'll see some faces will probably be returning some will not so <hes> you know still going to be very interesting game indefinitely worth watching more indy live youtube chat say. I got tickets to go <hes>. I'm gonna. I'm gonna go tomorrow so have a good time. Be safe if you're going. That's going to wrap it up for us john any any final thoughts before we close up shop. It's been a whirlwind wind episode to be sure we'll share this. I was shocked as anyone when i heard that bentsen had died <hes> fortunately with motorcycle the crash of leaderless emmanuel amanullah i or glared how analysts said he saw through chilling family nice cremated it s perspective. How could this kind of but <hes> besson. I gotta jersey from him because i think it was after that she does nine season in the two thousand nancy. There's obviously the the one year that i think immediately obstacles as mind and almost all erupting yards on three hundred over three hundred times. I think he was probably the last <hes> bell cow running back to carry a eighteen to a six hundred of his record and that season was completely on the back on the subject when when four players and coaches talk about him they talk talk about how hard it was. How admitted wasn't in practice in the locker room but like the guy was very special athlete by any means since the word word but just the just watching him play exemplified how art were because he wasn't four-five. Ask harder than anybody else and forget his size that was depressing to watch and how how incredible workload was with the bengals because was so limited at that time it was all the army's torn apart do injuries but the work that put into the bengals plus incredible to watch and just one of the real last true also also like the bird of two thousand so just just incredible player to watch just run hard every single three hundred plus nassar didn't they asked thank you for bringing that up and we had planned to talk about that and i'm glad glad you reminded me about that. You know i i'll take a quick trip down memory lane and i don't want to rehash some of the things that you spoke about because obviously i remember a lot of those. If for those <hes> i think john re tweeted it. There was a a tweet that was put out maybe by dove claiming <hes> talking about the <hes> when when when benson faced the bears i think it was nine late no non and the bears pretty pretty garbage at that point anyway but that was a game where you saw a guy that was just running possessed in you know what was really interesting and i was thinking about this in two thousand nine. If you remember the bengals had said benson johnson and then i think that same year they did they grabbed larry. Johnson and larry johnson had to fill in <hes> and and and kind of be a backup guy and he ended up having a a really big play against san diego than the san diego chargers. I was at that game so i remember that and <hes> you know just a you know a kind of a crazy year and i think back in in said said benson aside from <unk> been a pretty good guy went on the team and a good teammate kinda smile in a low key guy said benson is it kind of embodied and validated. Mike brown's stance on the scrap heap free agency approach right right <hes> he that if if you wonder why mike brown goes after these warmer high picks in hopes to get him on the cheap in and get maybe a couple of good years out out of look back to cedric benson it doesn't always work out for the bengals and i'm quite frankly more often than not. It doesn't <hes> you know i can. I can think of a bunch of different for new. There was a former bills linebacker that they tried to bring us for a while yeah. <hes> you know just a number of aren't maiden is is the guy i'm thinking of. It tried to bring him in you know they. They've done this before. In said benson was a guy as to that that validated mike brown's stance in this scrapheap approach and sometimes it's frustrating but sometimes it works out nicely said benson and was one of those guys was a good story for the bengals and <hes> you know it was a big reason for the bengals making the playoffs in indefinitely oh oh nine and and in two thousand eleven as well and i thought you made a good point john in terms of he was a guy that really helped prop up the quarterback situations nations in those two respective playoff years right yet carson palmer who had the elbow injury no way and then later in nine had the thumb injury injury and if you look at it you know kinda later in the year he was he was he was hand the ball off odd in a way. I don't know how they made that work. That was just weird but there was that situation and then of course twenty eleven the the transition to andy dalton so you know just a real shame guys my age which was my age when he passed away so that it's just it's crazy and life is short got enjoy it and unfortunately you said benson's was was very short but he will be remembered n._f. Fortunately that two thousand nineteen thousand nine bengals team now has experienced even more heart heartbreak heartbreaking chris henry died that year the team kind of rallied around that a little bit <hes> and then now a few years later you've got cedric benson and other big <hes> figure from from the team that that's gone so pretty sad news but what what was ten years ago i talk about how great fence wasn't allowed game. We never mentioned like good performances from bengals of do a hundred and six rushing yards on twenty. Let's have just lost by ten because heartbreaker do bad really stuffed up and i think if the jets while game but he was that was his best game the year of heard of so that only adds my bank his legacy yeah yeah i mean any other time. He run twenty one times for one hundred sixty nine yards at home in a playoff game. You win the game so go figure that one out but rest in peace we get a lot of our a._p. In the in the youtube chad dow said manson will be missed and <hes> you know unfortunately some bad news recently came our way in the bengals. Hopefully remember him the right way so whether that's a decal on the helmet like jason von stein says or some other way. Hopefully they do something to honor him this season. That's going to do it for us tonight. As i mentioned you can get the show on itunes institure on spotify on play on megaphone it's on youtube and since he jungle dot com there will be some updates a regarding the show and the cincy z. jungle podcast the s._p. Nation podcasts will be definitely getting those to you. We appreciate the feedback appreciate the live listeners and to all of those who who listened to the show after the fact have a great rest of the week enjoy the dress rehearsal from the from the bengals hosting the giants we we will be talking about that will be doing postgame reactions after the game thursday evening join us on cincy jungles facebook live and if you're unable to do that the audio audio and video will be uploaded to our channels so you can check it out after the fact thanks everybody have a good rest of the week the yeah <music> hi amanda aclu editor in chief of eater at geneva producer here at meter and we are here to tell you about our brand new podcast digest every week on the show we dive right into the weirdest funniest and most important stories in the world of food waste inside scoop from the biggest names in the industry expert insights from the newsroom. 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