Spittin' Chiclets Episode 162: Featuring Kerry Fraser
Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode one hundred sixty two of spitting chiklis presented by new Amsterdam vodka. Let's say Hello to the gentleman. Cedeno let's go to Ryan Whitney. I the with dog. What is up brother ward up? What up not much in Secaucus New Jersey just sitting around in the over evidence in? So it's nice to see you guys. And we've plenty stuff to talk about. So let's get crack lacking look at use new Dodd business. D you're up next Paul Bissonnette. Our other co host on how about that fucking winning by the coyotes. And if you think I'm going to be talking through this podcast, you guys are dead wrong. And if you don't like it, turn the fucking station 'cause the wagons back baby. I can Hala pod tool over here finally last, but not least our producer might Grenell. What's up, boys? This sulk shirts have arrived in their full lying off the shelves. Dude Yan's is gonna want the money for this. You know, it doesn't matter Texan the shirt, I text in the shirt, I was like what's up grab you each? Euro wants is that's our sushi place for no one. Take the money or song song-kyu he's gonna have to cease and desist us. So he'd better get his lawyers on it. Yeah. We got to bat tons of ask. Getting tons of request. Because we dropped the Our Lady our blessed lady of the unguided cage shirts for the degenerate puck line gamblers out there grab one of those two but lot of people asking for song. So they'll be out there. So is this an RA designed because the last time he designed the I believe we sold four of them. And it was. Yeah. Admit though, all right Hamilton, well that was my that was my own thing. I designed years ago, then we released of another version here. I have no idea. How many we sold? I was never told. So I I don't know if it was four four hundred four thousand I don't know. I think it was I think under overs four right now. Which you Paul? Over the dumbest thing I was told you sold nineteen shirt, so far the all this on any of the younger, he cage. Oh, that's not bad. That's nineteen more than we didn't have. We I, you know, something what would shirts have you designed biz sold. Well, all who care star. I was too busy fucking drop. Trying to grow this podcast. Speaking of fighting back in January Montreal's, Paul Byron was suspended three games for charging Florida's MacKenzie. Wego when his kind of leaping high hit slam the Panthers defense. Head off the glass, we missed a handful games due to the resulting concussion. Byron apologize for injuring him wasn't his intention while Tuesday night, Montreal we exacted his pound of flesh when he pummeled Byron Kadota thunderous left up cut that drop that Canadian abruptly ended the scrap Byron was pretty wobbly leaving the ice and even Wego Winston little when he caught the replay from the penalty box. I said after the game. Yes, byron. If you wanted to fight abs- voted wanted to goes, I definitely both guys willing to go. So what you guys just going to ask to John Grisham? Right. That for your holy fuck. That was pretty impressive. Thanks guy. Not sound like an author wrote that. Yeah, it was good. It was good. I have a couple things about this. Okay. So it turns out. Really shitty ending to the whole situation because Montreal's trying to make the playoffs Byron's going off the ice like a baby dear he's obviously already not playing tonight against Columbus. The issue being that people are upset right? And you know, his agent came out and said some things both the code to me this is hockey, dude. The entire thing. All you guys. I'll tell you right now. Byron had a dirty hit. Okay. People say he apologized. He got suspended. That's the punishment. Will you know, what the guy hitting the head is a tough bastard? And he says I don't give a fuck of. He got suspended thirty games and apologize ten times. When I play again, I'm gonna say let's go on fighting you you just hit me in the head last time. We played I wanna fight you. I don't give a shit about the other stuff and then credits Byron because he is not that's out of his wake us but credit to him. That's having some balls. That's gonna that's that's a that's a that's a move that. You gotta respect. No matter. What happens in that fight because to stand up and say and be accountable for your actions and say, okay, you know, what you're right. I'll go fight you. You're right. It was it was a dirty hit. And he did that. And it sucks the way it ended. But that entire situation. Is hockey. Throw a dirty hit. You get you. Get asked to answer the bell. You answer the bell. And what what happens sucks, but I don't want that stuff to ever change. We talked about the fighting when it's all set up. Glad it's gone that that stuff right there that that's hockey. And to me, it sucks would happen. But I think that will never change. And I really hope it never changes. I mean when I'm on your side of shocker to everyone listening. But I think that anyone listening is either on one side of that or the other. I don't think anything you just said as the change in you on the other sides mind, but I lived in breathe what you just said. I think that Byron probably learned valuable lesson and he'll never even consider hitting a guy in the head. Again. Not only did he gets a spend any lost some pay. And then he had to fuck in. He had to step up and answer the bell, which you said fucking rights to him, it sucks. How it ended? But that's how she goes. And I'll tell you the one moment like, hey, we are by the way. Everyone don't think that him. And the Jari thing is instill in his mind furious about that he's a tough Frick, but he's going into that thing pissed off to begin with let alone thinking about the hit that Byron actually gave them but for him to then be like, oh, no FOX or dude. I not you out like you wanted to fight him. So I understand that. Everyone's like, you know, even he looked like, bro. You you set this whole thing up and then fucking punched his head. And so that'd be like sorry, man. Like, that's like Pathak a little bit. Our made this kid. And now you're like I'm interested to hear what ARA has to say about it because he's a fan, and you've kind of slowly went back toward the no checks to the head. And how do you feel? I have no problem with him fighting. I mean, Paul Byron willingly drop the gloves. You didn't jump them? He here's the quote right here. It said I simply asked him if he wanted to own up the hit we said, I respect them for that. I hope he's okay. He didn't. He didn't jump them. It was like, okay. I'm willing to do it predictably the media's the one doing all the finger-wagging and Pearl. Correct. Well, that's why I was asking I guess alternately. The question is, you know, as more of a fan in me and widow because you've been hardcore fan for a long time. Do you think that that's a problem in the culture of hockey that the fact that he felt that he had to rise the occasion and answer the bell there to me? I'm like, no. Because he's the one who fucking hit him in the head. I so yeah, he lost some pay loss. The I got suspended. But what is we get of that? See I always say the players wanted the plays one fighting if they're four it the non for it. You know what I'm saying? It's a workplace issue in to a man everybody is fine with having like, I always I always say in case of. Urgency break class that's kind of fighting is in the NHL now. And you know, like, I said the media ties in the concussions all the time. And you know, like they forget most concussions on even from fighting. Obviously Byron probably got one last night. But you know, I have no issue would how went down last night. I know other people feel different but say Levin. Oh, yeah. I was coming out. Yo just kind of said like as a I kind of want to hear the other side of it. Maybe there's an argument where on my God. I guess I'd ever thought about it that way, but as of right now, nothing's changing my mind. And I like the way everything went down other than the fact that Byron got hurt still a level of bobber, ISM hockey. Always it's a physical game. And when you when you when you hurt someone physically your little kid on the playground. Like do what happens when you get hit. You hit the person back. I'm not saying, it's right. You get Ryan Malone told me the funniest thing on that on that wagon toys like I told my son's like someone's picking on you tell the teacher if they pick on you again, tell me or selling again punch him in the face. It's like the same type stuff where I mean, if you get if you get bullied, and you not that he was bullied, but if you get run over you're pissed off this is the type of game it is. So you can hate it or not. But I think that it it. It's what makes hockey in a sense. I really do. I love a lot of people say mostly media. Oh, he apologized. Every did it. It's like like fucking notes is going to satisfy Wego apologized on Twitter. Like that's enough. Not a guy still gonna wanna fuck and take out snap on them. And as I said, I don't think we're going to be changing anyone's mind that they already have it made up so good good good little topic, though. I like that. Absolutely. And just one of the thing JP, Barry who's Byron's as he actually did say that I think it might be time for the player safety to be the new code, which I thought was an interesting quote. But all happened all is the players are going to always trying to say like a non-existent code should actually have an existence. Like that makes sense. The code is like it's like an aura. It's like a cloud that comes into the room. You know, can't be like the guy. Is on the safety committee. I mean, what else is going to say it's client who had to go through it. I mean, he's he's not gonna say all, but I'm actually a big fan of of the only thing I'm pissed off voters that you're getting paid to -ducted. That was a fucking crunch and left. He caught him with the whole boy, I wasn't all violence Tuesday night in the NHL Alexander. Ovechkin scored is forty ninth goal this season Tuesday in the caps win over Carolina. It was also as six hundred fifty six career goal which tied him with Brendan Shanahan for thirteen th on the all-time list. Hi, shannon. We know. You're listening next of his Luc Robitaille six hundred sixty eight then some big titans out that he's at team. Mario Stevie y Messier all up on tap. That's probably going to be next year. The thirty three year old veggies forty four from number seven hundred and assuming he gets there. He just the eighth any gel in history to get seven hundred goals Gretzky, how Yeta hell Dion Zito and Ghada. Also, he currently leads the league. And if he hangs onto win another Rashad trophy, it'll be the six time and seventh seasons that he's led the league in goals, and once again, assuming he gets to fifty this year, you'll be just a third player in NHL history to have eight or more fifty goal seasons. The other to Wayne Gretzky and Mike boss. See who each had nine heard of them those guys. I mean, you know, this is another guy who's drum. We've been beaten all all season long Ovechkin when all of a sudden could be the number one goal scorer of all time. What you think we talked about before? But I mean, if he stays healthy this is eight hundred ninety four goals is within reach. No. I said, I've I've said that Bucci grass Bucci man, he's he's been bringing it up for quite a while watch. So yeah, the overwatch could begin maybe four years something like that. Who knows? Well, I'll tell you though, I saw something recently as they were going to the ice. I don't know what game it was. But he comes he. No, he's in the tunnel like outside the locker like right before like, there's a minute left business. The boys are getting together. He comes over any like does this little dance with Verana. And then he goes over he stares and haggling face society down. And then him Wilson do an enormous chest bubble might OB such a legend like now that I'm just like watching hawk, oh, this guy is out there just lighting up killing people. And then he's the funnest guy. You could. Tell everyone just loves them. And so the fact that he's been this good, and he makes hockey fun. Like we also playing because it was a blast. It's it's time your life going to the rink. And he still liked that. And then why wouldn't he be I guess, you know, you're getting a goal of fucking night. It makes the game pretty goddamn fun. But still it's pretty cool to see. And you know, he's happy about that. I saw it on the Washington Capitals Twitter account, and I watch that. And I've never been more jealous in. I just wanted to be back at the rink with the boys after it was Witter. You saw that too. Yeah. There's a little video all the whole breakdown. So he comes you walk show. It's like quack quack quack with Brannagh and he's chewing gum, and you know, over he's got those. He's got the salt and pepper hair. He gets the worst haircuts because all Russians do he's chewing gum like he's a farm animal like a big water double. Pieces of bubble of ores at bubblicious. And and we know we cross the sauces that after noon, that's a fucking. That's god. Rushing farts in the locker a weapon to all. Oh, here's an all. You know, getting one tonight when they smell like this breed game. Here's another thing. That would drive Gordo nuts. Votto Lovie is. He would go to the bathroom and put a toilet seat. And he wouldn't clean it off. He's always a farm animal. But you gotta love him and say I did that. That's that's such a lie when they handle say that. So anyway, the sauce cross comes then he does that you say the desk there with haggling, which I don't know. I think haggling might have been doing that in Pittsburgh too. I feel like that's like that's kind of changing barbers maybe wherever he goes. He just he sees us. I'm staring down before the game. Like, they nobody you feel like now he's cheating on like the Pittsburgh at his move. Whoever comes to him. He stares down done that no matter where you are enough. I listen shit was the guy who got the staredown Pittsburgh. You don't think he's jealous now than always getting staredown? There's it said and sit just stares back. We could little dog. That's what I'm saying. And then he went and hit Wilson. And I was like fuck I wanna be back in a locker room. So now, I'm announcing it I'm making a comeback. I'm gonna get my other knee replaced, and we're going to do this boys. I'm going back to the zal to keep the end who says when he retired. He still just wants to go to a locker room and get dressed with the ball. Then knock on the ice case. So I told him I want to do this show where you bring your gear to the rink. And there's cameras set up in a locker room and everyone just like like gets dress slowly. And then once you're dressed your gear. You just take it back off that's called chiklis. You started the show. We started the show your part of it suck on that. Okay. Well, there you go. Thank you. What do you think of the worst like flavored sauces that you can cross together? That would be absolutely disgusting. I wouldn't be surprised if there was passed out. He was doing the triple soft Crossen like little buffalo than a little Tabasco on their said, the guys look at the guy's a farm animal Lovie would put like mayo on. On a biscuit, NATs and jelly to crushing face. You're like what are you doing right now for that night? And he'd be fucking breathing on you by doing the knuckles and the line going by. Man, males gross while we really get off the rails. Yeah. Mail mail is mail. So disgusting. I tell every restaurant that I'm allergic to it. I'm not allergic to it. But I'm like, listen, I'm allergic to manage just to make sure because if you say, I don't want man as that's not the same thing. They don't they don't wanna kill you. So if you're allergic, you ain't getting it can I tell you something that pissing off. And this is really going off the rails is what's that sandwich place? I'm trying to think of as a Jimmy Johns. I never go to places like don't do franchises in the north. Yeah. Like when people go to subway Jimmy John's DeAngelis, I think you're the biggest piece of shit. Those people know. Yeah. Or those people know fence, but yeah, we're we're like we're like local delis biz around here. Okay. So I believe it is Jimmy John's, but they won't put the mustard on the sandwich for you to give you the mustard pack. They don't want to kill you or peanut butter places do that. Yeah. But this is different is. I mean, we're talking about mustard here where they'll put everything on they'll say, oh, we'll give you the muster packed. It's like I came here to to purchase a suburb, a takeout restaurant. So you do the work. That's what I'm paying for. You mean me on the muster sandwich? Take me forty five minutes. I'd read that's why I don't cook. Just just fucking put my muster. Why you have the packs even like what you're not saving money because those are more expensive than getting a big jug of it. So Jimmy Johns fucking put put serpent the fucking mustard. I think it's because if you put too much on you can ruin the sub. So they probably like let people ruin their own sub this. I know you get a sub and they put too much mustard on. It's fucking ruins it, and I'm not talking Dijon either Dijon's disgrace. None of Brown must guy. No, great poop. All right. We talked about the shocks them in a couple of weeks or week or so ago on here, and how how much they've been struggling a little bit the fading shocks. They've lost six in a row in the not exactly looking like the intimidating cock Caradon carriers from earlier in the season. Ashtec ask them you'll biz what movie, but you've been dropped Google search and some of these I'll give you the right now this is not a boat accident. There wasn't any propeller. There wasn't any coral reef in. It wasn't Jack the ripper. It was a shock month can just carry on calcareous going deep right now should have been an easy one. Anyways. I knew it the longest losing streak in two years and four those losses to non playoff team side. They have been missing calls for the last dozen games impulse be for the last four. But still a pretty good team. They should be doing better without him. Head coach Peter the boy said his team was lacking desperation quote. It's work. It's desperation. I don't know if there's a complacency about where we are in the standings or what? But we've got to get out of it. The only way to get. Out of it is to work out of it. What I wanted to ask you teams just turn the switch on playoffs come around like obviously kind of coast and right now. But when the playoffs come in the shocks hit that switch. I mean, I think it's possible. But it's not ideal. Right. So like, it's kind of it's kind of a weird question. Because no matter what going in the playoffs, you're either. Let's keep it going boys. We're feeling it already. Let's go. The things have been what we're doing working or you're like, hey, guys new season. We've been struggling the last four, but we knew the playoffs common. We're fine. We're fine. You know, we kind of leak we kinda limped in. But we've known for a while. We're in let's go. Now, it's go time. Both things happen, and they work and you play well and both those situations happen, and you have a first round loss. So it's it's really hard to say, I think it can happen. Just when I said at the beginning, it's not ideal. That's the first thing that comes to mind. And that's why Tampa this year's been really impressive. Because if anyone wants to kind of relax, it's them are mentally strong team. I mean, they've they've made a pact. Not a packed like sitting around a campfire packed. But you know, individually, silently, even all right? We're gonna play hard as we can we're going to treat this like it was game fifteen of the caesium. Everything's locked up because we don't want any of the relaxation before playoffs. So either way you're you can you can win a Stanley Cup. But most of the time I'm going to tell you think playing well leading in matters a lot. Man. I got I got a bad feeling about them. And you gotta think that based on their past two the member for that stretch of time. They were team that couldn't even get over the first round hump. They were kind of the I mean, they were they're kind of like Saint Louis during the same amount of the same period of time. And maybe a little before it until they went to that Cup final against Pittsburgh, man. That was their MO joke artists they made that fuck in the logo with the shark with the stick. Hey, remember that throw can stick with where it's lodged. You guys know the mean you've all seen. It is pretty good whoever made that that's pretty good. That's pretty good. That's why it's it's lasted the test of time keeps coming up every year. And I mean, specifically the year when they were up three nothing on L A, and then LA ran to table number that one and then Elliott of going on the call to I took them down as as part of an eight seat in Anaheim stolen. I don't know. I I hope they can turn out as I said man if there's one guy deserves a Cup, it's still Thornton. But this doesn't seem like a light which situation to me because every team it's going to get in in especially the team that probably end up plan Vegas. Nothing sociable, man. And they got their number last year. Exactly what I was gonna say biz. I mean, even if they are able to turn the switch on. I mean, they got the Vegas Golden Knights weight and father man, and they're going to be tough to beat their one of the hottest teams in the league right now actually meant to mention we do have longtime NHL referee Kerry Fraser coming on a little bit. As you got to a nice long interview with them down the city, right boys? It was a live interview. I wish I had you guys with me. But you know, me and g did some studying for it. And I tell you what the minute he got to that office at barstool he had a pep in his step and on my this is gonna be electric 'cause he was there for one thing and one thing only and it's like when he was a referee. It was showman. And that's exactly what he was. He brought a shit ton of stories g. Any he spent twenty minutes giving me hair advice after the podcast. So I'm very thankful for that. Why haven't you listened to him? It's coming. I gotta get the product. I he's going to send me some of that product. So I'm excited. But that's how we started doing it like that used to have bad hair. I forget he says it in the in the interview he he started getting blowouts sort of using that product, and then all of a sudden guys on the ice for like holy shit and his first ever game. I'm going to save it. I'm gonna save it Morty getting excited. Actually, let's go to right now 'cause I'm fired up to hear this. So we got Paul bus in it and Michael Grenell with Kerry Frazier. This interview is brought you by so-fi, did you know, you're being underpaid by Bank account. That's where so five money comes in. So fi is an online personal finance company that makes products people want in love, and then not afraid to push against the status quo to do it. So fi just launched so five money. It gives you the best of both checking and savings all in one account. You'll earn too. Point two three percent interest. You make way more on your money. Trust me, man. I've been banking for forty years banks's show tightwad you getting two point two three percent. And you could do so much money with that extra K I cabbage. Pay a bookie go to a nice restaurant. Have some fun. Pay a bookie doorbells. One thing you won't have to pay any fees. What's so fi? There's no account fees overdraft fees. No foreign transaction fees in even your ATM fees. Get reimbursed that's fantastic in this day and age because everybody uses ATM's about a thousand times a month and with more money and no fees. It's never been easier to spend in save at the same time. So even the general gamble like me still has a few extra bucks laying around. And if you didn't think it could get any better it does. So fi money. Also, get you so five membership. You can get access to exclusive events like tickets the biggies basketball tournament free one on one career coaching in more. Learn how show fi can help you. Get your money right in open a show five money account right now at show fi dot com slash chick. Let's that's S O F, I dot com slash checklist. Well, folks, this guy doesn't need much of an introduction. Although I know he wants one this guy. This guy loves it. He's already giggling over there over nineteen hundred games officiated regular season. I say probably the most iconic NHL referee of all time two hundred sixty one and playoff games refereed and twelve and it you'll finals appearances, I thought it was thirteen. Somebody must have messed around with your your Wikipedia page and not to forget the nicest head of hair to ever walk the face of the planet carry Frazier. Welcome to the spit in triplets podcast, his I gotta tell you. It's an honor to be here with you. Again. We were together on the set at TSN for it and some icon ick moments off camera with you bilby. Why don't you start us off without one? I know it's two thousand nineteen is a very sensitive time. But that was back in the day. So why don't you tell that story? Very quickly. I gotta tell you. I'm in a whole Bank of games being played. And I'm supposed to watch if the referee screw up or there's a call. That's controversial I clip. It we go we start right off when the we come back from the intermission first up as me with James Duffy. But I'm looking over at the panel phys nasties on the panel. And he's got all these guys looking at plays or something on his on his screen of his iphone? And I think good I gotta go over and check it out, and they're laughing, and they're looking at all of that's awesome. All of a sudden, I look at it. And it's porn. But it's not just porn. It's him in the video. My god. I went through some wild times. And we talk about them quite frequently on the podcast. I actually got a death threat from a stripper's boyfriend, and we played that for all. I heard I've calmed down quite a bit. But this interview is not. About me interviews about you. We got a lot of questions from fans because you're that you're the first referee that we've had since I've joined, but before we get into all the common questions that usually have to answer what even up to lately. Well, I'm really loving life. A couple of things have happened one two years ago. I was diagnosed with a rare form of leukemia. It's in the bone marrow is no cure for it. But it's very manageable. I got the light pale to carry. So I've been on a chemo pill for two years. It's brought my platelet count down into the normal range. It's called essential thrombosis theme. If friends ET make sure you get a blood test, especially after fifty years old because it can just you know, it can kill you your platelet count starts rolling rolling and rolling on steroids. And you don't maybe know it and all of a sudden a blood clot hit go to your heart brain stroke mic, Magoo, we just lost him. And I don't know whether this was a similar situation. But please get your blood tested. I'm doing great. Fucking feel good. I mean, I'm working out. Also in the Gulf business with my son in law. He's got a sports any major sporting event in the world, VIP hospitality. We were just at the waste management. Phoenix. Open four Gs five six luxury boxes on number sixteen. We run to on the seventeen had over fifteen hundred people through during the week played golf next up the masters, so I mean, I'm living large. So this is usually in the podcast where we drop the not a big deal after you mentioned all those humble brags. Yes. Very good. Are you wanna wanna test it out? No. I I'm not bragging. I'm just saying man, we should try. I know we we we usually job not a big deal big deal there. I. It is. Okay. So. Here we go out to be a recurring. I learned today that you were actually quite the player growing up while you know, my dad, we bring things to our adult hood or teenage years that we acquire along the way my oh man was a nut. He's a fighter. He was a Goan in the eye. He played in Scotland at nineteen in the Scottish International Hockey League. He all Canadian guys they had the camp for the league at maple leaf gardens. His good buddy was Bill Barocco who scored the winning goal in the Stanley Cup for the Leafs and then was tragically killed in a plane crash. So he stayed with Bill Barocco made the league they went over on a ship nineteen years old. I just had we had a group over to the old course of Saint Andrews, and they were having a drink in the Dunvegan bar, which is the best golf bar in the world. I love it love it love it. And this guy walked in spitting image of Kerry Fraser and a little older, and he could be. Be my brother the old man was over there. I don't know you like to have a good time. I do he's probably making videos of his own just no iphones back. Then more VHS tapes. He was the real deal. Debbie does Dallas. Yeah. So what made you get into officiating? Well, I wasn't good enough and big enough to play at the NHL level. I was a good little player. But the old man was also a boxer and I played three years. Aaa midget for him. And so we had five guys that went on to play offer team in the NHL. We'd Bob Neely was a defense when he first round pick the Leafs. We had Wayne Merrick win four Stanley Cups with the islanders. We were linemates. But I was the guy that the old man taught how to fight he was a boxer as well. So in our kitchen, he would have and I'm a lefty he'd have me gets that. And he'd have me tuck my head in and boom he'd knocked me down. He must have knocked me down more times. I could stand up, but he taught me how to go and we were in the silver blade tournament, which was the aftermath of the silver stick as midgets and we were in the final game and dad was real disciplined coach, and he said boys there was this big defenseman like your size, and he was still. In our guys and being dirty and dead said, no penalties. No penalties. Win the game. Win the game. So we got five minutes left. We're up five to two taps me on the shoulder. He said, okay, go teach that guy lesson. I it's easier to punch up than it is downright true. I speed begging them with both hands. Cut him over the is wicked. We get thrown out of the game. I'm in the dressing room. The guys come in. Everybody's excited. I hear ruckus out in the hall here. My dad's voice he comes in slips in locks the door. He came over to me. And he said listen Carey said you had no problem with the kid. But I don't think he can take the mother carried me out in a stick bag. I was I was five foot two hundred eighteen pounds and I'm getting carried out to stick. So anyway, noth- of that stuff. But I hated bullies. And as I as I finished junior level as a captain B's in the southern interior junior league, Mark how was playing for Detroit. Red wings. Kenny Houston landed draft pick six foot three and two thirty. He was in Chatham had a couple of guys in Windsor that Frankie beaten Frankie never been beaten. And then he got beat once. He was seldom in beaten. He was my linemate we had a blast. So those are, but I carried that that kind of aggressiveness Taipei, I'm. Over the job. So when now all of a sudden, I was handed a application referee school nineteen years old. I'm undrafted whole bunch of US scholarship offers from the states didn't wanna do offered any money on the back door. All no, none of that is London night opening. No, nobody paid. Sure, I'm sure anyway, the soul I had a decision to make you're gonna play in the minor leagues. You're gonna get the heck beat idea because you're too little and you play too big. So Ted Garvan who played pro with my dad and was coaching in the eye. Shell went onto coach Detroit Red Wings. He handed me a brochure to referee school. He said, listen, why don't you get into officiating? We need guys that understand the game. Good skaters. I paid two hundred fifty bucks nineteen seventy-two to go to hell of Burton referee school all in shell instructors in the world hockey came in at that time. So I'm there at the camp, I dropped a stick threw it away. Put it in the closet now. I'm going to be a referee really studied focused at the. Out of the camp. I were freed ten minutes of a men's intermediate hockey game. I didn't know how to clue what I was doing. But Frank very hall of fame. Referee was assistant director of officiating. Watch me for ten minutes. Took me off the ice in the referee's room said I really liked what I saw I'd like to invite you to the NHL training camp. For officials two days later. I'm in Toronto with the NHL officials and from there they put me in the American League they signed me to a contract as a referee holy away. I went I fell out of the sky. You know, how your arrive? There was a shortage of officials at the time. And of course, good ones her fic- timing world hockey formed some of the guys jumped like Bill Friday went for a million bucks to the world hockey. It was just the right time. And I had the aptitude for it. I add the type the aggressiveness, but I learned in a confrontation with Wayne Gretzky and my first game in Northlands Coliseum when I came into the league that I had to change I had to change. My fight my aggressiveness because Gretz started diving right off the bat that night, and I stuck it up as but and I regret it after the game. Flyers are playing Bobby Clark in those guys. And at the end of the game. I never called a thing on him when he was fouled. I just got really pissed off that he's trying to embarrass me. Rose lands crowd went on me. So towards the end of the game Oilers down by one powerplays their best option Pelly. Lindbergh catches a puck. I blow the whistle boom. Gretzky's behind the net in his office. He jumped in the air hands out front feet of back. Boom bellyflop Bobby Clark skated over not. He said get up Gretzky. Yeah. Baby. I went over. I said, Wayne, what are you doing? I said there was nobody within fifteen feet. He said, well, you wouldn't have called it. Anyway, you haven't called a blank thing all night. I said, you're right. I'm gonna start right now you've got to front sportsmanlike conduct. He said, thanks. It's about. The F in time you called something. And he stormed off the ice. I won the battle that night. Right. But I knew I would lose the war. I went back to my hotel room biz every every game, I replayed it. I've got a memory like these CR, and I went was there something I could have done better. Boom, stick between the eyes. I compromised my integrity the league the game. I love the players and it wasn't right. So from that moment on and I realized that it was me. I had deficiencies I had assets. I had to fish to take the go with the bad though. That's how it goes. You've got to recognize the bad and the bad for me was little man syndrome. Chip on the shoulder. Assertive aggressive, and I needed to be part of the solution. Not part of the problem. So self-awareness was was a key aqui ingredient early on if you think you're right all the time you're going to be wrong. Most of the so-so how would you have handled it differently? Would you have went up to him? After the first time. He did. And said, hey, listen, I need you to respect me a little bit more. Or here. I know that you get caught and grab a little bit too much based on your skill set. But work with me here to just kind of be in the bully. I gotta tell you could be a referee with that kind of attitude. And that was going to be a question for later on. You must have the thickest skin in the world to be an NHL official. You do. But you know, what I learned from the Gretzky situation I needed to develop relationships professional relationships with guy. So I was approachable and not the getaway kind of stuff that we see sometimes all one of the stories early on was the one where one of the captains came over. You ended up throwing throwing a bunch of guys out from a team you remember the one. I'm speaking absolutely absolutely telling that leave it's in your book as well. Yeah. This home team. I mean, they're frustrated. Right. When you're at home in front of your home crowd. You're losing big time and the fans start getting restless Boone, and all of a sudden it's like canned of one or something a blowout. And I guys are frustrated every goal that was scored people through shit in the ice and played come over to me a yell at me curse at me. Boom. I bang. My head him sitting three deep in the penalty box towards the end of the third period. All of a sudden. As they're cleaning up, more, debris, the captain came over and very politely. He said, Mr. referee. My coach wants to know if you can get a penalty for thinking, I said, well, if he doesn't think out loud, he's probably going to be okay. He said in that case he thinks you're a fucking asshole. I laughed awesome. Yeah. And I looked over the coach had the scali give me the stink eye. And then all of a sudden he saw me laugh he smiled, and then he left and I went boom. This is what we have to do. We have to enjoy. What we do. We got a love this game. Gotta have fun with it. And from then on it was a little better on. I was a joke. Here's one official that comes to mind that reminds me of you a little bit. He's the French referee. I believe his last name saint-pierre Hoya. Well, in regards the fact that I I'm sure a lot of people don't like him because he's he's she's a showman. And he and so were you, and you know, as many as personally, we have personalities in outy, and you you you loved it. You did so much that maybe people took it in the wrong way. Yeah. When they see you buddy, and chumming guys your hair so beautiful, and you're smiling all over the ice a lot of people. Hey, just do your fucking job and start having such a good time. You brought up a good point this note Quebec Nordiques wetter. I called a disallowed Kotei goal. Yeah. Famous in in nineteen eighty seven battle of Quebec in Montreal. In the form game five game tied the game. Previously was went into overtime. So everything is tight. The game is tied with a minute and a half left and Allen coattail goes down the right side cuts into the middle as Brian Hayward. The goalie for the haves is being dragged out of the crease. And I'm standing on a goal, and I'm going no, please don't score don't score. Because I know I got it allow it. I mean, talk about half to have elephant balls. Right. So all of a sudden he shoots it right in the middle of the net. Nordiques are all up and excited. The benches excited and I'm waving in disallowing the goal. Well, Michelle Berge are on the coach lipid data. He's on a bench. He's pulling his hair out. It's a famous picture of them. Yelling and screaming. They went numb. They went numb and next face off in the end zone. Boom. I've got carbo wins. The face off carbon carbon wins the draw over to Kirk Muller up to Ryan Walter boom winning goal. I gotta fight my way as an official. You're probably praying that goes to t- at least. So they non gall Nongoma. Call is kind of a distant memory. No kidding. I prayed a lot of times on the goal line. When I called stinky penalty like, please, don't let them. Now. The fact that hey, we're got ranted did they end up getting a penalty while they did get a penalty? It was Gillis that got took him out and had to give them a panel. We have at Naslund was behind him and gave them a little nudge. So I gave Mats Naslund. So it was Quincy all you know. You know, my dad didn't raise a stupid. Boy commonsense, boom because that's just how she goes. And now, we're, you know, offsetting penalties. No problem. And let's play on. I wasn't counting on Ryan, Walter. I was actually the second time you got carried out in hockey bag. It could have been a body bag. But you know, what I did seven hundred seven games in the first round. This was game five I had done five out of five. I'd done to Stanley Cup finals previous years. And all of a sudden, I'm sitting at home waiting to get a next assignment. And I hear on the Sarney radio station back in Ontario, Canada, referee, certain native NHL referee Kerry Fraser, it's been reported as being sued by a group of Quebec fans for prejudice. I went what. Pardon? Yeah. So I called the league and I call Jim, Greg. Reyes Jim what the heck is this all about is there any truth to it gyms? Jim, Gregory, great guy. Right. He says you haven't been served with us a Pena yet. Have you high said, no there's truth to this? He says Weiler's report. But we got you covered. We got your back. He said just send it to New York. They're already for you. He had my back. All right. That was the last game. I worked in the playoffs. They dropped me. Like a hot potato. I know I was gonna ask you. So what's it light your NHL season? Like, are you guys only allowed to work? So. Oh, many games just to keep you guys fresh mentally, well we can collective bargaining agreement. We can do as a referee. You can do seventy five. But if you if you over the magic number they give you one seventy fifth bonus of your contract when we went into the two referee system because the younger guys weren't ready. We got a boatload of of bonus money at the end because we were working eighty five eighty seven expansion two more teams coming in more games on your work with preseason regular season. And if you go the whole route through the Stanley Cup finals, you're looking at ninety two one hundred games all what's the rule in play offs? And you only not to do so many games per round. No, usually hop around. The again, the collective bargaining agreement has a number of officials for each round that are selected more guys in more money paid the less. Experienced guys will be paired with the senior guy. They'll work the first. Five games they'll be assigned in around. And then they leave six seven open because they might need to refigure reconfigure. The the pairing are finals officials decided based on performance in the previous rounds or those kind of already. Well, it's it's over the course of the regular season. But also each each round the supervisors get together. And they determine who the best officials were it's highly unlikely that somebody that was rated at number one would not do the finals unless he had a major blow up right to probably to protect them though. Right. Well, yeah. Because you know as a player you make a bad play. And you're a great player you're going to be forgiven. Right. If you're a fourth line guy and you make a bad play. You're going to be on the end of the plank. Correct. Or you're going to be sitting in the press box. So there's more leeway given to the guys that have carried the pale that have the experience, it doesn't always mean that if you're rated number one that you get the finals as a matter of fact. Fact, you're looking at a guy that was rated number one of the year the New York Rangers went to the Stanley Cup final. I breezed through the playoffs had great playoffs. I had Mark Messier as guaranteed game six though way. And we I was on my boat. We went on strike that year. And I was on the executive, and I was front and center in the battle to get our guys more money with the Commissioner. And so anyway, I wanna ask you about that game six so hearing that quote beforehand does that make you a little bit more nervous, considering you know, there's going to be way more is on that game just based on the drama or did you just live for that? Do every time like number one. You've got to prepare yourself for every game. You've got to be the best. You can be. I always wanted to have a positive influence on a game. And that could be just staying out of the way. Sometimes other times, we have to step up, depending on what the players present, Sean Avery, for example. I had Chanz. We'll talk about that. But the game six with with mess at the end of the second period. I said to the two lines when it was Pat to Puzo enjoyed Goce. I said stick a fork in these Rangers done. They're absolutely done. I just give an Esa can Anina penalty he needs to fan reshape. So they're going to be starting the period a man down. They just didn't have any juice. They were beat. They were whipped. They were tired and out came the captain. I would never discount what he said ever again. He took the game on his back natural hat trick. Boom game seven you mentioned briefly, Sean Avery there. And I'm sure throughout the course of your career just dealing with all these different personalities, and it's kind of like Scotty Bowman. They say he wasn't maybe the best Xs and os, coach, right? But he just knew how to work with certain guys. Everyone's different right. You gotta talk the guys differently. Some guys you need to bark back. Some guys you need to call them a little bit. And you're one of the best to do that while Sean Avery after the Martin Brodeur, boom, boom. There was a rule in the book. We didn't have to create a Sean every role all the referee had to do is give them a two minute on sportsmanlike conduct penalty for inciting. He and if he if he continued it he would have got him as conduct the rule was there. But the guys went brain dead. So now, they create this rule, and they talked to Sean and the read them the riot act. And I've got the next game before the game before the national anthem. They take the icy came right to me. And he had like if I wouldn't call it fear, but he had anxiety over this. And he's and he's talking really quickly. And he said Kerry, listen, I'm going to be a good boy on and I'm not going to cause problems. I went whoa. Stop. I said, listen, Sean, I said, you know, what I expect? You know what I do? I said you are a good player. You can be affective just play your game. Just do what you do. But you know, what I have to do do. You know, my line any went, man. Thanks a lot thought. He was nervous. He was worried. He thought they're going to this the refs this night are gonna stick it up as but but wise for him to approach it that way where communication always prevails big tire. Up. We're on the topic of playoffs here. Let's let's bring up some playoff moments famous ones in your career. You mentioned this one on your book, the final call the one involving THEO Fleury, which everybody asked there's a few players that people specific asses would talk to us about that situation with feel. Well, certainly we know now why THEO was such an yeah. And it's it's it's it's horrific. But he was he hated thority. He because he was a little guy, and I'm a little guy we just didn't mix. And and there was he was always always crawling up my butt to try and get just nasty. And so we didn't get along too. Well, he didn't get a break when he needed a break. If there was one that could go either way the went that way. So in this particular game in Chicago, April nineteenth of ninety six. It's the he's playing for the Calgary. Flames. They're down. It's game too. I believe and they took a couple of penalties early. And then THEO took a penalty. And he just went Abe shit on me. I mean, the stuff that he said I'm going to read. Yeah. I'm gonna read it here. So let's make and he will he heard him and he'd put this into his book playing with fire. This is a quote from his book. So he was pretty much fed up with you at that point for whatever reason he goes, I'm gonna fucking kill you. I don't care who you fucking think. You are. Let's meet outside in the parking lot you fucking shit bag asshole. Immediately. You gave them a ten right away. And then he threw his helmet out you and then took took his helmet off through Atlanta right by your feet, and you're you're just boiling point. Well, some people might say he's a good judge character with what he said, but I would disagree. And I gotta tell you shit bag Asselot that Myron. That. So that'll be on my tubes. Going. Run over your name bar at your next charity hockey run over but his MBA. So anyway, I got Drennan like you can't believe with what he said. And and we're we're close proximity. And you just it's the fighter flight and I wanted to fight. And then this my muscle started quitting my leg was twitching the helmet sitting right there. I was going to kick it back in his face the breath deals in stuff, the NAMA stay. Yeah. And I threw him out of the game. But I always liked to take a bad situation. And I like to turn it to a good situation for years later. This story doesn't end here. It goes four years later and deal signs, an eight million dollar one year free agent deal with the New York Rangers. But because of his substance abuse situation the league put him in the substance abuse program right off the bat. He didn't start the season. First game back Madison Square Garden, December nineteenth of two thousand. Four years after I became shit bag Essel and into the first period, they're playing the Saint Louis blues. Joel Quenneville is the coach Tyson. Nash second-year pro with the Saint Louis blues. There's a scrum in the end zone. It disperses THEO Fleury just him. And I at the red line between the two benches at Madison Square Garden tears coming down his cheeks he said Kerry, I'm trying to clean my life up on. I haven't done Kokin X number of months. I haven't had a drink. I'm trying to clean my life up. Don't let them talk to me like that. I said who what he told me Tyson national what he said about his dependency. I had a decision to make. I had a choice. I could've said human nature would dictate looks good on your man. How do you like it member four years ago member the things you've done you've said you've to other guys, right? I saw a wounded individuals in front of a human being that needed. I wanna take his pain away. Like one of my seven care, hog give them a hug, come on, buddy. I said tell you what if I can get Tyson Nash back here at the start of the next period. And if he gives. Sincere apology. Will you accept it? Like a man he said, yeah, I said, I'll tell you. What if I get him here? Promise you won't break stick over his head. He said, I promise I went bypassed are dressing room in MSG up to, you know, the visitors coaches room is off to the right. I went rate in the visiting coaches room Joel Quenneville, I said Joel this is what Tyson nested THEO Fleury, he rolled his eyes Joel's class. He said do you want me to tell him to take his gear off? He thought it was going to throw them out of the game. I said no how about this apology. I said it probably will help the when it might not hurt your guy. Great idea Joel ran into his players room, confronted Tyson. Nash, I'm waiting at the start of the next period at the red line between the benches with THEO Saint Louis blues. Come out Joel tries to do a Tyson tries to do a little skate by I flag over. I said, do you have something to say to this man, Tyson Nash was affected by this? His lip was quivering. He had it was affected. I mean, he's an awesome guy work with them. Grace incredibly I love him. And I said he said feel I am extremely stories that I sincerely apologize. He said, I went way below the line. And I'm sorry, and he tapped him on the shin pad. And he said, I wish you the best in everything. You've awesome. I said to the always said you good with that. He said, yeah. I said shake hands boys. Let's play now that didn't stop Tyson Nash from doing what he normally does he lured Brown on defense into a seventeen minute confrontation penalties and the game ended in the blues win. And but I called Tyson ten years later ninety six to two thousand to two thousand ten I'm retiring, I'm going to write this book. And I saw what THEO wrote in his about the shit bag. Will I want to turn this to a good start? So I called Tyson, and I said Tyson do you remember the situation in Madison Square Garden in two thousand with THEO Fleury the phone went blank, he came back. He said Kerry that was a life altering situation. It was career changing for me. I said tell me about it. He wrote I put in his words exactly what he told me. It's incredible for any any level of player in any sport coaches. Parents the message that he delivered is incredible incredible. And what I like about it too. Is we all fuck up? I feel like we live in a society. Now, where if you do people wanna hold you accountable forever until the end of time. So no one can ever really truly be sorry is just not good enough. Whereas like like that like you said like, you just the way you handle that kind of like took away all the animosity. And now we can all learn for men, it'll probably help from people putting themselves in that situation. Moving forward biz. I keynote speaking things with companies. Corporates? And there's lessons to be learned that we can always transfer from one occupation to another. And what I say here is we can make a difference with something so simple in every day. We can make a difference in somebody's life. Whether they're grumpy they're what I mean. You can open a door for lady and say have a nice day. This was a simple apology and the participant in. It said it was life altering career changing going back to the alcohol and drug abuse. I mean, there was a lot of that going on throughout the league during that time. It was a different world different beast back. Then guys were staying in in towns after games getting after then they would fly out the next day. Do you feel that there was so much chaos, and so much anger and crazy stories because of that because you've got to imagine the highs and lows of drinking and doing drugs all the time. And a lot of these guys were going on the road all the time. Do you think that that was why those times were so crazy as well? We'll I started in the seventies. So I mean, the the alcohol was the the issue part of it. After a game. I mean, both teams would be in the same bar drinking. And you know, it was the refs would be in there too. And there were times when I when I worked games guilty because I didn't quite get the bed. Very probably just you know, got on the flight and slept on the flight and had a great afternoon nap. And I was ready, but I work guilty. And a lot of the players will tell you. They played some of their best games guilt. So, but it's not right. I mean, you can't do that. Now, it's it's a whole different culture with phones and cell phones, and people taking pictures, and and plus the game is is much quicker. I feel like it's gotten more rational and the players side of it where it's maybe a little more irrational on the fan side of it. We'll get into that later another battle that you had during your career was you and Mario a little bit. Or at least people people's public opinion seem to think that you guys didn't get along early in towards the middle of his career. What we didn't? And I regret I tried to develop positive relationships positive. Professional working relationships and Mariel came into the league, he was such a fee nom. I mean, he saved that franchise, but he came in at eighteen years of age and so skilled, but he he wouldn't put on the jersey when they drafted him. He refused to play for the the Canadian national junior team in his final year because he felt they disrespected him. So he had a little bit of uniqueness to them. And but we had a situation on the ice where he became a young captain second-year, captain. And he he never liked to be touched. He wanted the game the way it is now because he had so much skill and we shouldn't have but did allow an awful lot of clutch grab holding back then and it wasn't good for the game. But you didn't call everything, and you certainly didn't call somebody away from the puck for restraining. And he became frustrated in a lot of games of. So I gave him a penalty in this particular game against Tampa Tampa. Yeah. And because he chopped a guy he got frustrated got stripped to the puck, and maybe close to the hand gave them kind of a retaliatory but end slash after a couple of hooks. Yeah. So he's in the box, and he didn't like it. And then all of a sudden we're waiting for the face off. And I saw stick fly over the glass at the penalty box. And I said the linesman Jerry payment. I said that Mary just throw a stick over the boards. He said, yeah. So I stayed by not to be confrontational. I never said a word to him. I just gated by cruise by boom, ten minutes, and I circled. So now all of a sudden he goes, let's back it up. Was there a little bit of flair to you? Given the old the old ten it was kind of. No. But we gotta check the game tape Grenell. He can look at it. Take a look at it. The only one time that I really really dinged. A guy was Enrico Cicconi and he was playing in Tampa. He was up my rear end for three games in a row. And I'd had enough of him his very first shift. He got a penalty. He went like he was going to say something I went boom, then he went and I went boom. And then he and I. Last suit him for those listening Basie the minute that Enrico was about to say a word not only teat him out. Then you dimed them up and they toss them so when motion, but I thought I thought it was a positive break in between until I saw the replay. And I went home my God, I had the six guns on. I mean, I was gunslinging that. Eastwood I'd had enough of them. Yeah. Make my day. So. Yeah, mariel. And I I regret it because we had a confrontation where I had given them a penalty another time, and he came out they got scored on and he came right to the face off. And he put his stick down any tapped at he said, nice Fook and Cole. I went. Whoa. Paul Coffey just been traded coffees on the back end blue line. I said you're the captain you're supposed to be the leader of this team. I said there's a captain look at that guy over there. Paul coffey. That's problem. Now. Okay. I said your guys don't even listen to you. That was horrible. And I like there's the bay pop back soon as it came out. I couldn't suck it back. And I went on my God what have you done after? So now three days later, the run Long Island into the first period. There's a scrum. Okay. Big scrum at the end the first period. I go in there blow in my whistle. Like a lunatic. You know, try to get everybody to disband Mariel looks at me looks down at me. Course, he looks and says, hey, boys. Let's go and they all followed him. And he gave me the stink guy. Like, I'm in charge. Here you're beautiful, but I regretted that so much so much so much when he came out you and then his team had to restrain them. What was Kevin Stephen Sandia will Ronnie Francis. Was there too? What a great and Kevin's has come on just get away get away. And but the funny thing is I looked at the tape afterwards. And from the back door view Maria's frustrate. I get it. He takes his glove off. He unlatch is the door. He pulls the door open. Now, he's gonna come and get me. Right. He's gonna fight me. I maybe he puts his glove back on is that to protect those beautiful hands of his or visit navy not want. Yeah. He didn't know how to hit the jackpot. Thank god. He didn't do it. Thank God you magic. He would have broke his hand on your face. They here. Spray would've on GED. He would've cracked knuckle of going back to here. Okay. So all of our fans are asking. We'll hop into a fan question. What do you use product for that beautiful salad? It looks better. It looks better. Now to me 'cause you got a little bit that salt and pepper, George Johnny going. Yeah. I gotta brush in the this is Paul Mitchell. So I had a playoff game in the old buffalo auditory, and there's the famous I've watched a game at the famous hate that hate that. So the oh actually going back to that story about the quote unquote, porno, I created I believe the girl was using a toy and you and he goes K Frazier goes, hey, that looks like my hairbrush. That's what you said at the TSN desk, all the boys that are good dot the ended up bringing it up on his podcast when I was last on it. It did have a little bristles on it like so anyway, there are a lot more advanced than that. Now carry I don't know if you know, these two Sheen's alien landing or something distributed them. Yeah. Well, it could vibrate the hair. Maybe I don't know. But anyway, so this game playoff game. Boston Bruins win one nothing in the Aude. And I in the old auditorium used to have to walk out and your rate in with the crowd. And this lady came up to me rate my face, and she said curious gotta have a word with you. And I all man, what did I do like Bruhns win one nothing? She's pissed off. I set my bag down. I said, yes, ma'am. What can I do for you? She said you're flying up and down that is one hundred miles an hour your hair never move. She said, I got problem here. What's your secret? I said Paul Mitchell freeze and shine she for the hard days. She said perfect. I'm gonna go buy a case of it. And I walked away. And and using this ever since its best. How many years have you used this product ever soon as as soon as Kathy had me do a makeover from my wife, Kathy from my beetle, cut hair straight down. We went on a break and went to Marco island. She said we got we got a fixture here. Like you look like a little kid out there the beetle cut so blown back. Okay. First game back after the break. I'm in Madison Square Garden islanders plan. The rangers. The house lights are all down as the players commode onto the ice. They turn the house lights on Pat price plan defense for the islanders. He looks like he doesn't recognize the referee. He went holy shit phrase. Would you do right over here in a convertible air? All back, you call it a blow out a blowing. Like, did you go to a salon? And they. Oh, yeah. He re- restructured the hair have you ever been approached about doing a brand deal with Paul Mitchell? Let's do it all I'll be able to live on up. Get everybody biz twenty promo code. Twenty percent off their bottle. There you go. Yeah. Talk. God creek creek story here. So last night, you know, we're preparing for this interview and on my Grenell. And I had a couple of other ones to do yesterday. And I'm Mike Grenell. Can you look up some stuff? So I can ask him about Tamara interview. And he's got some stuff. I said, okay. Let's give me give me a quick story. Like what have you found so far? And he goes, oh, apparently he missed some call in in a Stanley Cup Eastern Conference final game when Doug Gilmour get stuck in the face by Wayne Gretzky, and my mouth drop, the I three I mean, I I remember where where I wasn't Princess Diana passed away. I remember where I was when OJ Simpson was was driving in his Bronco. I remember I what where I was when the twin towers went down. And I remember where I was when Doug Gilmour get stuck in the face by Wayne Gretzky, and I was the least fan back down. And I had Doug Gilmour's autograph on a a baseball other cat. But I mean, I've forgetting your luck, buddy. I I appreciate that. Do you get sick? Tired of hearing people ask you what it's part of history. It's it's part of hockey history. Just like that same year in the finals when I had to measure Marty McSorley hockey stick in game in turn the series around. But on that call in the Western Conference final in overtime, and Glenn Anderson ran Rob Blake from behind in overtime almost put his face through the boards, and I had to call a boarding penalty. So Anderson's in the box kings on the power play end zone. Faceoff and grits took a shot off the face off with the first shot with Gilmour, and it hit Jamie mccowan shinned Pat bounce back into the faceoff circle. Where they were still standing, and I had a good blocked. I blinked and there was a move of the stick. And I thought maybe Gretzky took a shot and the next thing, I know Gilmore killers got his grabbing his chin I kill the play go over. And I said Doug what happened? He said Wayne took a shot and his follow through hit me in the chin. That's exactly what he said. I said, well, if that's the case, it's not a penny. But something didn't smell, right. Because Wayne was always there. You know, if he had to protest something he was I guy in making a case, he's not Goff to the side wall just sort of slinked away and the other players from the lease were say, hey, this, you know, I had suspicion. So I called the two linesmen together. Kevin Collins dropped the puck Ron Huck. Finn was back at the blue line on my side. And I said guys helped me out. I didn't see it. What happened Huck said? I was looking through their back. I don't know. Kevin Collins said, I'm not sure me, you're like, are you kidding me? Right now. I'm dead. I'm dead. Who's got an iphone? Let's have a review which sometimes when they show it on in house. We can say let's have a talk about. Oh, yeah. There. It is. Okay. We're good actually. So anyway, I had to eat it and sure enough next play boom Gretzky scores winning goal, and I'm dead. Now, we talked about my daddy hilt Fraser maniac. So my dad watched every playoff game any tape them that I did I got boxes of tapes. He died in two thousand one I got boxes of VHF tapes that he made of the play offs. I call him when I get back home to south jersey. Hey, dad, how you doing? He said, well, we had a little excitement here last night. I said talk to me what happened. He said while I was sitting in my chair I fell asleep in the chair after the game. I tidy whitey's on nothing else on and he's he had arms like Popeye forearms barrel. Chest he had a drum and he said both three thirty in the morning. I heard this ruckus out in the driveway said there was a car. I looked out. He was driving into the back of a mini motorhome hitting the trailer hitch backup, bang, bang bang. I said what you do. He said I slid the. Patio door open. I grabbed the axe at the back of the door for chopping wood. And I chased the guy up the street, and I said I got a couple in on the back quarter of his car. I said dad that's not good. I said let me call in Chelsea security. So I call security they got back to me two days later. They said, yeah, we found out who the guy was is cars in the body. Shop getting the axe marks out of the back of his quarter panel. He's a Leaf's fan from Kitchener, Waterloo. He drove an hour and a half to Sarnia Ontario to find Fraser's family home. Thank god. My dad didn't get a hold of me would've killed him. So my mom started getting all these obscene phone calls. Gosh, your sons, no good plank. F- inmate chicken lollipop, but you Jeanie anthrax sent to the house. No too early in the in the career at that point. But I said mom here. Here's my whistle. Like a good hockey. Mom. She tied it on a skate lace hung it by the phone anytime, somebody called up profane. She just hammered them in the air. The the the bad call stopped head to put mom in the nursing home for a year before she passed, my brother, and I and the the whistle was still hanging on the skate lace. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That's why I mean, obviously sorry about your loss and thanks a long time ago. But you know, that's that's part of life living in dying. But but also fans we talk about fans can they be like over the top who would drive and try to bang into the back of a guy's car and just because his kid screwed up a call. And as you gene Melnyk would say it may be lease faster to speak concerned about them getting their franchise defenseman. There you go which I mean, I'm just stirring, the pot building the parade. Right. Yeah. 'cause you gene Melnik say he's a bit office. Rocker now is it. He is. I I mean, I be lying if I don't love if I said, I didn't love the drama behind it. Because it doesn't affect me have no skin in the game. I feel bad for almost nickel. Tell you. He's he's. Got a little bit to worry about their too. Right. Well, that's why it was it was just funny that he said Tronto fancy worrying about they're getting a franchise the fence. Meanwhile, they're they're slowly imploding on. Why had a franchise defensemen? But he's off playing. Elsewhere got starts. Very true. Yeah. Well, they actually got that one kid is it Shibat Chabad and they got that Branson kid. Getting bomb. You had a couple of questions. Now, you wanna ask the big, man. So we had Matthew Barbie on the podcast today crazy guy, but he'd always say that he said that he would wear his shitty suit into Philadelphia because the fans would throw beer, Adam as us walk into the arena. What cities were kind of the the biggest Astles to you. And did you ever get a full beard? Just drenching your face stuff. Like that. Who stories let's talk about Matthew Barnaby, what a legend. He had a face like a cherub. I thought he was a choirboy until I saw the horns start to stick out of the back of his head. He had the silver tooth, right? The shiny tooth will before that shiny tooth. I had a game. And it it was a cap and a guy and I'm chasing the play and I had a bad look. And there was a guy that reached in with his stick on the back check and Matt's got the puck, and he bent over and he grabbed his mouth, and he came over to me and he had a broken tooth. And he said lucky my tooth. I gave the guy. I four minutes for high sticking, okay? So three or four days later, I've got them. Again, see him before he's got the cap on nice and shiny. I have a great look on this play. I got a perfect bead. And I as see that the guys stick is at his waist Matthew Benz over he grabs his face. He pulled the tooth out. He came over to me. And he said looking broke my tooth. I said you prick I said I was the guy three or four days ago. He said, oh, man. I forgot Sewri stuck the tooth back in. That's a pretty good trick he likes getting did bring the fake tooth around. Get a call. He's a beauty. Cloudy Lemieux when peppy won the Kansai trophy devils win the Cup games. Northlands coliseum. Matthew, Barnaby trash talked. He peppy came over to meet freaking cry. And he said carry he said, I'm going through a very public nasty divorce. And he said Matthew Barnaby said these things about my wife, and they were awful they were like, they would you know, what even been offended? I wasn't down with guys going to personal. No. So anyway, I said Matthew get over here. I said you say those things about his wife, shiny tooth went. Yeah. I said his wife. I said you apologize to this man right now or I'm throwing you out of the game. He said you can't do that. I said try me gross misconduct. You're gonna try and get you suspended while holidays. He said, I'm sorry. I said, no, no, Matthew, not good enough sincere gave another attempt I said Claude you good with that. He says I'm good with that we skated away. I said to Barnaby Barney if you ever. Talk about another man's family. I will throw you out of the game. I'll get you suspended. Yeah. But he's a great guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was just it was just different back down. I mean gets a little cringe. When guys go after guys personalized I wasn't down without I put my head down. There's a few things that I've said that I felt that I crossed the line on that. You know, is it Celik Eric Selleck in the minor leagues? I was playing with Manchester time, and he was with the Portland pirates. I won't say what I said. But if you're listening Celica, I apologize for what I said, it's never too late to apologize. And you know, what to your point about the the worst place where beer gets dumped her that after the land coattail disallowed goal. I went back to Quebec the the old colisee two years later. This is a scary story. And in February two years later, we had no security there and they allowed because it's so cold. They allowed fans to stand at the back door inside to get autographs as a players walked out to the bus. I'm walking out with linesmen, Wayne, Bonnie, just the two of us. We're going to get in his car drive back to Montreal. And five guys are standing there. And as we walked by said, there's Fraser, let's get 'em roll you'll. Yeah. Carried my my bag over my shoulder. I said buckwheat, Wayne, let's get outta here. Quick. We're out in the parking lot. We got street shoes on frozen parking lot. I go down we're done and they're coming. So I said Wayne back to back, and I ended up my bag. I pulled out my skate, and there's always that one guy. Right. That the little junkyard dog that you know, the leader I took my skate out. I looked right at him. I gave him the stink guy. I said you're going to f died a night. I'm gonna cut your throat. They might get me. You're gonna fucking die any went. He backed up. I knew I had him. I said now we're getting in the car you move. You're dead. Just like that. And you think this is because of the the no goal. Call is. Absolutely, absolutely. It was a no go call. Yeah. She's christ. I did. With with burgee, Michelle Berge, and we we did a promo for Renault the poll, it's just like Home Depot, they were renovating all their stores. I got a call from talent agency. They wanted me to renovate my call in French renovate means to turn it over to to of course. Yeah. So we did this thing. And we're we're at the open we did a whole bunch of promot- promos and commercials in French, and what have you TV radio? Now, we open the stores, and they got us people are lined up outside to get the grass. And I'm I'm watching everybody's coming. Right. 'cause I don't wanna get caught off guard. If I get suckered to get maced. Yeah. So here's this little ole lady like grammar, and she's giving me the stink as she's coming. She's not having any of my funny stuff and she gets to the front. She gets days. She then she does Burgi and she looks at me. And she said, I said little graph Madam. She should Fuk. You. I went and Burgi says, hey, grandma. He's a. Good guys. She said f him he blew call. They never forget they don't know how to let go of garage. This is another fan question from a lot of people funniest trash talker. Maybe somebody who wouldn't take it over the line. But like just every time they open their mouth. You just you're laughing at what they were saying other guys we know couple of guys of little Rizla Gary Rizla that played with Mariel in Pittsburgh and ribs was a tough little guy fighter, but he he had no teeth and he had an upper and lower plate. And he took the moten set them obviously in the Cup in his stall. And he could actually swallow his face for the national anthem stand on the end of the bench. And he would get me laughing so hard for the national anthem 'cause he would just suck it all in, and is is knows disappear and everything it's chin just cave in. He get me laughing the other guy Steve of a last name just escapes me. But he played for the Windsor Spitfires. And he had a wife. He was in Dallas. From our producer, his his what what what years were all of this was about two thousand eight nine and they were playing Carolina and the defensemen for Carolina Paul Maurice's coach and the team and these guys were teammates in Windsor. And the Steve's wife that he married from Windsor really liked the other guy and ended up marrying him. Was it Steve what Steve hot? Oh, yes. He did. You forget stealing. What's funny guy? We're talking about so many names. I gotta tell you. I'm brain dead. But anyway, so the puck drops and Brennan moral fights the demand right off the bat, and I go what the hell if I lost control already and find out as Stephen is going by the the Carolina bench. The demand says you're just mad because I stole your wife. Now, they're getting personal right off stopped right in front of the bench. He said mad. He said, I could kiss you for taking that fat ass. No, good lazy, blah, blah, blah. Well, all the guys on the bench started to laugh Palmeiras duck Dover down covered his mouth, he's laughing. And the the the buddy that had the wife wasn't laughing at all saw their auditor on at one point. But the first time ever met Steve. Aw, he goes, you're probably wondering he just told me a story right away. Steve it's one of the most down to earth salted the earth guys every guy who's ever played with them loves him to death. He's having an unbelievable post career. He's having unbelievable post career success is doing coaching now with the Saint Louis. Correct. But love you autre, and hopefully we can get him on at some point just tough because when they're affiliated with teams now, right? Like, this is unbelievable because you can be candid and say, whatever like people are going to be fucking jerk off. Well, as far as it goes. I mean, I loved him as a ref because the banter that goes back and forth. I mean, the best coach was was Glenn's either for banter back and forth witty guy, and if you can engage in it, and you can revel in it as an official in not not take it personally, not get your backup and have to be officious. You can have so much fun out there. Absolutely. Because because you are in control. And it's it's I wanted to ask you about where you think the, you know, the game is now, and maybe as a whole from a referee standpoint, I know you are working with the league as a senior adviser at one point never never a senior official. Well, I was I mean. You call the shots. Kind of I would be mentoring young guys that that as a coach is the we're working. We're teammates your demand. I'm the veteran demand. I'm gonna I'm gonna coach you I'm going to mentor you stoppages with title men. I thought air Fisher may be met even we're done. You were still I was just most senior. I was the guy that was around the longest, but I was four decades with the NHL. And so I saw the game change so many times, you know, we went from the bench clearing brawls which were scary as heck fights for last and twenty five thirty minutes with everybody on the ice. Sometimes coaches fighting on the ice was wicked Don perria I had to escort him off the ice one time remember coach del egg and Pall Mall, the wouldn't go out and do a fight. And there was a big deal about that. But so then we went into the stick swinging area era, which was brutal guys would turn their sticks are down and they'd be whacking at each other. And it'd be like pencils by the time. They were done. And then you know, we we had the the high stick stuff we had the obstruction. But the way the game is now it's so fast. We came back from two thousand four lockout miss the whole season back in no five the competition committee Brennan Shanahan put together when he was playing for the Red Wings with hockey ops. And the -ficiating department Representative Steven welcome. And so they they came up with a plan that we watch a lot of taping this clutching, and grabbing isn't gonna go anymore. We got it. We got a clean it up. So there was a big by all the factions of the game and the game changed drastically fast. Fast fast. Speed let skill flourish. Don't hold up in the neutral zone speed through the neutral zone defense didn't like it because they were getting crushed couldn't hold him up. But nonetheless, then we started with the high hits the because of the velocity that was being generated that. And probably because I mean, there's a correlation to the fact that obstruction was no longer allowed. No, the clutching grabbing so forwards back then were lied upon to slow up the for check. And then also the other departure where it was. It was it was less DVD's and more reverses because you just hold the guy up and finally going than just a quick bump off the wall. Whereas, you know, now of said you can't won't guys are coming in flying in with Taina momentum. And you got velocity that you generate. And what happened was the the the checks? Everybody seemed like they wanted to be on, you know, sportscenter highlight. So it wasn't just about buddy check for possession of puck. It was about making that train wreck hit. And so the knees were flexed the ankles were flexed, they were extending up through the check to create velocity. But their skates were off the ice. And when a guy your size does the snake curl with the knees and ankles flexed and you extend you're going to be up around the guy's head. And especially if he's been. Over with the puck, and he could be six six three six four guy. It's just gonna happen. And that's where the game started to evolve into the higher dangerous kinda hits. I like where things are now. I was just west of fen can tell at the metro Canadian fantasy camp, we we chatted. He's a great guy Georgie Perros is is taking the lead now. And I think they're really doing some good stuff. The head shots are being minimized. The thing that and maybe you'll agree with me. I don't like guys being run into the boards from behind when the numbers are there. And they're going face. I I think that is the new dangerous play. Yeah. I think the main problem now is public opinion and the amount of backlash on referees from game to game basis. We talked about the speed of the game so back then it was a lot easier to catch calls because the game was just slower. Now, it is. He's guys are flying around because there is no obstruction and and just based on on their their off. Off ice training and their diets in the way, they take care of themselves. The game is just volved and even the technology skates. They use. So, you know, maybe yes, things are going missing games. Now, we've implemented another referee where every time a little calls missed. They fucking slow it down the throat online. And then it's the social Justice warriors attacking these referees where I feel bad for these guys. Well, and I'll tell you what coaching is really important coaching for young players when they come into the league mentoring with with senior players is really important to get them to the top of the speed of the game. When you come from the American League, the NHL has hired the officiating department hired guys one guy never refereed a game before he was. He was a player former player played to, you know, high level American League and wants to be a referee because there's good money to be made as a referee now or a linesman, and they have they haven't earned the reprennent ship yet. Therefore, they have. To really be coached. And I watched the game differently than you would watch it. And I see continuous mistakes that are being made over and over and over again, and that's not acceptable. I think that there needs to be better coaching. They need to have video that they're they're looking at with a supervisor a coach that has been there done that because the two referee system is great in the sense that we need it now. But what it does is it incubates guys coming up because they're doing it in the minor leagues. The you know from midget on two referees. There's never been that one guy out there that's had to deal with all the crap that you're saying you're saying at those levels us one referee that way that guy can absorb more and have more, you know, more to deal with on a game to Gabe game too big game to game basis. Skews me God, I struggle with talking. Sometimes if you have a notice, you're doing great, you, you know, but, but they they need to to learn that way that is a looney just easy from the start. There's no adversity nothing too. Have to problem solve you're not gonna learn much. Let's make the mistakes in the minor leagues before you get to the show there. And I'll I'll give you a classic example. There was a situation where a in a shootout not too long ago. Ovechkin went in made the move goalie throws the stick knocks the puck off Lovie stick and the referee on the goal line waves it no goal. Didn't know the rule, that's not acceptable. That is an awarded goal during the course of shootout. It's an awarded goal in. The course of a penalty shot. It's misconduct of the golden and take shot over again. If he did it again he's out of the game. So those are situations that don't happen very often. But these young guys coming in haven't had that kind of tutelage they haven't had that kind of background and they're coming in like cold. Yeah. You'd think there'd being put in a tough situation. Sympathizing for the for the guy time, but you know, what you got to move your feet to just like, you you you're not gonna stand. Take a pass you're gonna move to open ice and the referees half to position themselves to get the very best angle on a play. You have to have the best site line. And if you're a stork with stiff legs and standing in the corner deep plays at the net. You're not gonna see it. And there's too many meetings of the mines when I was refereeing. One guy. We had to make the decision. I wanted to see everything I had to make a call. I had to make a decision and I wanted to be in the best position to to make the right call not always possible, but you have to move your feet. So you gotta get to open ice. You gotta see the plan advanced like Gretzky like Lemieux did not where the players are now where they're going to be three or four chess moves down the board. That's that's that's the smart way to think about it on you mentioned before we got on air. You know, you in the league had had a bit of a falling out on you know, I've I've been pretty calm. Momentum towards Gary Bettman in the job. He's done with the NHL because you have to the mount he's grown at. I know fans are bitter about the law coats, and you know, the growing pains and still complain about other things. You you mentioned that you see an issue with these head hits prior to them now that they're an issue. Sure says years back sure five years before I retired. I thought the snowball was rolling down the hill as far as Mr. Bettman. He's done some really good stuff for the league. As a as a businessman for the owners for the players that have are earning more money with expansion in the right markets. I mean, look at Las Vegas my gosh. Since he's so he's really really done. Some good stuff. He relies on some people that are his lieutenants that maybe haven't given him the best advice along the way. I think the hockey people. I think there were better decisions that could have been made seeing this coming after the return in two thousand and five where the the game started because it was so fast, and because of the non obstruction the little touches that were being called away from the play and players started to play a little saw. After maybe because if that was a penalty a good body check surely would be a penalty. So there was a focus on letting them play letting them hit don't take the game away from an officiating perspective, but that translated in the more you let players get away with the more. They're going to cheat the more they're gonna take advantage. So those open ice hits became high and because of the speed of the game and guys were not looking and not aware of their environment. They were getting blindsided and they oftentimes when they got blindside and the head concussions resulted. So there was a real focus on that. And and I warn them that we needed to be vigilant, and we needed to pay really close attention to those kinds of hits that were revolving within the game because I saw other things over the four decades where it if you let it start. The snowball goes down the hill, and it's pretty pretty hard to. I mean, you mentioned that you went through so many different areas of of what was bad for the game. Sure. Him we're on a whole different new ballgame. Yeah. I mean, you're eliminating one problem, then all of a sudden you have another. And so as you said now all of a sudden these hits are getting higher and higher geyser, you know, dealing with these concussions going down. So when I retired. I mean, I spoke at the mayo clinic at the hockey hit concussion symposium with all the top docs from around the world. And and I made my point I'm candid, I I tell it like it is and like I feel and the Commissioner took offence to that. And you know, it's his league. And I don't blame him. I love the game. He thought that I was disrespecting the game. But I'm not my job biz was was always first and foremost was for player safety. That's what I did. That's what the rules are there for a so my enforcing the rules within reason of entertaining flow and all that stuff, but it was about player safety. So that's where I was speaking from last thing, I want to do is pick a fight with ROY yours, a look interest in and communicate your. Thoughts on it. And it's tough for him. Because you know, we're in a time where we have a very traditional game where we have a lot of old school fans at still want the game played physically, and we also have a bunch of new school fans who I mean, let's be honest two side, he's gotten softer and also more intelligent as far as what head trauma can do. So they want something and then the other group of want something else. So there's there's there's a lot of collusion right now. There's a lot of a lot of arguing about time integrated. This my assumption would be he's trying to implement that slowly along the way. So these old school fans aren't himself in a culture shock where they're like where the fuck did the physical game go like they got a slowly do it to be where it gets to a point where you know, the new the new school fans wanted a certain way where it's slowly been introduced to the old school fat. That's a good point. And and whether that was his thought process, I'm not sure or the hockey ups thought process, but they are they continually moved in the right direction. And really there where I would have wanted them to be a little faster. But that being said, you know, Craig Button who was a general manager league. And you worked with TSN as I did. And Craig is a wonderful human being, but we had a conversation. And and he said, you know, Kerry, we can disagree as hockey guys in old school guys in and modern guys and certain general managers, the, you know, the the doves and the hawks he said we can disagree on the physicality aspect of the game. But one thing that we shouldn't disregard or disagree on is the medical evidence that we now know that's different from before. And that's really what this is all about. I mean, I've I've been pretty big, you know, speaker of his far CBD's concern and. Yeah, marijuana. That's a completely different issue. But as you said, you can't ignore the science aspect of what we know. Because of that. Let's now make changes now, let's stop delaying it because we can save lives, and you know. Or help guys to another guy. We talked about before the interview is Savard, and he went down with that nasty concussion. The guy had live in a fucking dark room for a couple years. That was mad cook that chicken wing them re square in the head and Matt was a predator hitter. He all, but he was allowed to do it Krahn wall in Detroit. Great -ment, but he would the commentators would when he laid out a guy with a big hit. And he do a reverse hit and jumped called the Krahn wall, gut Ron Walt in. Oh, and I look at you. And you had a good career your tough guy played hard. You gave it every shift, and there appears to be nothing wrong with you know, I did it the right way. I was fortunate. I want to ask you about one last thing. I wanna talk to you about that. Brad hall goal that shouldn't have counted. And how crazy that year was because you mentioned you were in a meeting at the start of the year. We're all change here of the foot in the crease. Yeah, I we had so many goals disallowed. That were just like guy stand on. On the opposite side of the crease with his toe in the crease and goal scored disallowed. And on that Cup of that has all of the dozen Stanley Cups that I worked I was scheduled to do game seven in that one in buffalo down, and I'm listening to it. Because I had the charity event. I'm listening to it on the radio driving back. And and I think I'm trying to visualize this and like, wow. When I saw the replay the resume any goals were disallowed where there was less in the crease bread head will he's be big got. So anyway, the the how this all came to be was at training camp. And it was the referee's sitting in a room with with Brian Burke, vice-president hockey ops. I love berkey and Brian Lewis referee and chief and he's taken notes. And so Terry Gregson said, listen, something drives me crazy said we've got a rule in the book that says if a if an attacking player is in the crease and a goal is scored the goal must be disallowed. It doesn't say it might be. It says it must be. And we're using good common sense where if the player in the crease doesn't interfere in any way with the goalkeeper we allow the goal to stand and classic worst example is goalie up top of the crease and a guy skates behind him. Never touches them through the crease the shot goes in we allow the goal. And then the sports broadcasters crucify us with an overhead camera shot and say look at this the guys in the crease rule says so he said like what do you want us to do Burki said? Well, what's the rule the rule is you can't be in the crease he said, well, then disallow the goal. I said, okay. So no commonsense here. Right. We're it's it's not about causing affect it's we're going to let her of the rule is. Well, I guess so that's what the rule says. I said, okay. What's the crease defined the crease is it the line? Or is it the blue paint? He said, well the line must be part. And I used reference of the blue. Line and the red line offside pass. I said. Is the line? Part of the crease. He said, yeah, I guess it is. So I said if guy has toll on the on the line like I'm taking it to the I want them to make some common sense decision here. I said if it's toll is on the line is that in the crease, he said, yeah, I guess it is because Terry Gregson said you can't be half pregnant either you're pregnant or you're not was just crazy because the play of you on the complete other side, there could be a battle towards the net. And the guys toll could be on the other side in the crease, and is for whatever fell commonsense. Joel no goal, and we had so many disallow how long did you battle in that room already five minutes at least to an hour. And then you just said Faulk concede considered change the rule change the language in the rule, which they couldn't at that point. So we changed our the way that we ruled on it our philosophy. So Buffalo Sabres fans, we're going to send O'Brien Burks Email. We're actually to put his phone number. And who knows maybe that same person that attacked your your family's home? Would wouldn't mind driving to to Burke's? Good luck with that. He's still got that ax. I saw Burkey play in the American League gooney was he was in the flyers organization, and he was pretty tough guy. Oh looks like a tough bass. He's of me a immune bugger visa he's appalled. Anything else? You wanna talk about? I mean, we've been going for how long hear Mikey about an hour. Yeah. Hey, listen. I tell you I I'm living life, the the my health and people's health is really important. So please take care of yourself. Enjoy the game. The game is great. You know, we can always agree to disagree. And I think that's the thing. We don't have to. We don't have to be like in your face kind of my way as the highway Brian Murray, God rest of soul when he was coaching in Washington. It wasn't cool for the referees to go to the bench and talk to the coaches, we were told to stay away. And Brian Murray was very emotional guy. And he was getting benched penalties all over the place constantly from the rest because he'd yelling screaming he was flamboyant and this game in the in the cap center, he's up on the boards. He's screaming and flapping his arms. And I thought I gotta have a word with. Talk to them. So I skipped it over. And he's all emotional. And and I this. This means peace. Right. So I said with the sign of peace and calm monotone voice said Brian loved to talk to you gotta calm down. Please. I need you off the boards as well. Boom. He came right down to my emotional level. And I said, listen, you may not agree with what I have to tell you. But this is what I saw in C or why I made the decision and he thought for a second reflected, and he said well, carry you're right about one thing. I don't agree with what you just said. But thanks for coming over and talking to me, and boom we had we started a relationship, and we could agree to disagree as gentlemen and no different than high hits dangerous hits. It's okay to disagree. That's why Hines has fifty seven flavors. We can agree to disagree. And we don't have to hate somebody because we don't agree with what they think don't go on Twitter. They hate me. I go read your mentions after this. We'll man we gotta thank you for stopping by. This is incredible not often. Do I do interviews by myself? But you made it so easy. You get to carry the play. Hey, let's let's get him back on with when Ryan's here went to give him even tell you. I mean this early because I saw you at TSN. You are doing awesome. I watch your podcast on. And you've got really got it nailed here. I appreciate guys. Thanks. Did. You give Laura. Love you longtime a follow on Instagram after we talked about it on the on by wife would not go for that. It's called delete. Jake's clear, the search history out of your Google out of why a thanks again and Paul Mitchell, Paul Mitchell, flexible style, fast, drying, sculpting, spray, Paul Mitchell. Call business deny and we're going to get something going here. Oh, you think this is not going to happen? You're sadly mistaken, folks. We're going to be selling hair pro I'm the girl at my Capelli's girl him out. I got shitty hair fresh. Well, listen, I you know, when I put a helmet on they made me and all yeah, we have talkable. No and Bill Daley. I love Bill Daley director of vice president of you know, the the NHL we're sitting in the last collective bargaining agreement. I'm part of and he passes the the their proposal. First proposal over to our lawyers sit beside me with one page back page, he slips over to me, I read it. It says all officials regardless of tenure will wear a helmet and visor for the duration of this collective bargaining agreement 'cause your heart sink. I ripped it in half. I slid it back to him. I said non-negotiable shows you what kind of negotiator. I am. I started the season with a helmet. Did you you little spoof video? It was offered. You actually miss a few games at the start of the shattered. My big toe just before training camp. I was carrying. Our our daughter was doing work at bar harbor, Maine undergrad in marine biology and not not not a big big deal. I carried this big TV and I'm coming down. And I just had knee surgery. A little scope to get the debris cleared out and my left knee gave out as I'm on the stairs going down the basement. I j- barefoot I jammed my right foot looking for the step. And I but I say the TV as it's going down the stairs. God I get to the bottom of the stairs. And I had this be sting in my toe. And I looked at it. And my big toe was going this way not a big deal. Not. And I said to my wife, Cathy, I said, Cathy, give you give it a I said, it's dislocated. She said, I'm not touching that thing. So anyway, they get me to the hospital. X-ray the toll the joint was splintered all over the place that was shattered. So glad she didn't pull. But people probably assume that you were holding out because of the so then Duffy calls me. And he said, hey, listen, you up for doing a spoof? I said absolutely come on over they flew in. We had we had beer and sandwiches in my my kitchen that night. We wrote the script that night. We started shooting like six o'clock in the morning. Got a helmet with visor talked to Simone gonyea, and we all over the place. I ordered a hotdog from vendor in Philly. And the guy looked at me. Like, I was crazy the helmet visor on Faulk file the rest is history. That's an unreal story James out these unbelievable fucker. Thank you again. We're probably going to try to end this. But then we'll just probably come up with another sale. Ask another question or give me another guy's name because the story flashes in. Okay. Let's save it for next time. Kerry Frazier laze in gentlemen, hopefully enjoyed this one. Check out his book to check out his book the final call hockey stories from. What to legend shit bag? Hockey stories ship bag asshole. Awesome. Love it. That interview was also brought you by seatgeek, buy tickets can be complicated and confusing. But there is a simple eight of by with seatgeek sheiky is the smartest easiest way to get tickets to every type of live event, whether you're catching your favorite musician onto shopping for the perfect gift or searching for a last minute deal to see a favorite NHL team. Seek helps you find the best seats at the best prices fully guaranteed. Nothing beats being there in person for the biggest player of the year in equal get your closer to the action for a great value as I've said before I've had the seatgeek app on my phone Phages. And it is by far the easiest way I found a shop tickets, you can be anywhere any state any city bomb. You punch it up. They find the tickets fly, Tom, I wanna spend the bows dollars. I got a new date in town. They take care of that way. I'm a tightwad on the game show tonight, they fix you up that way to you got the most banks via buck because see seek grades every ticket based on value. So you know, what you're gonna get the best. Every purchase is fully guaranteed. You can shop at full confidence. No deadbeat scalp taking it though. Screwing behind the guide, then you beat for one hundred bucks doesn't happen on CD. So make seat geeky Goto app. The final the best deals on every type of ticket, sports and concerts, the comedy anti-eta. Best of all our listeners. Get ten dollars off the first seek purchase. Just download the seek apple into the promo code hockey today. That's promo code hockey for ten dollars off your first seatgeek Burgess seatgeek right seat right now. Right from your phone. Once again, thanks to carry Frazier. My new best friend, and he's going to be a reoccurring guest for sure love the energy. He brought boys. Speaking of characters, Don, Sherry is at it. Again. He he wasn't too happy with who's Netsov celebration does the bird celebration for his daughter. I mean, I don't even think it's that like is it that flamboyant? I think it's kinda funny, and I love that all these guys had their own little celebrations now and to be quite Frank like, I don't even know where I sit with Don cherry anymore. Obviously, I respect everything he's done. He's a legend. I believe should be in the Hockey Hall of fame. But I'm kind of torn between is doing this just to kind of like stay relevant when he says all this fucking weird shit in any as outrages outtakes, or is he just really that senile? I think he just an old guy, and they put in front of a camera, and he's gonna say what he's gonna say. I don't think he really has the full thought of like, okay. This is content. Filet I'm gonna say this disturbed people up just fucking oldies. I don't want my saying the word senile guys get old. They do lose fucking faculties up top a little, and you know, if there have inclinations, and maybe I know he said some issues European plays over the years. You know, when they get older, I think all the people tend to be a little mean, maybe, and they kind of say things that they really don't want to. I just trucking up like he's like somebody's old grandfather, you kinda take what he says what a grain of salt. You really can't get too mad about he's he's fucking what eight years old. He also. I mean, this guy's God. And Canada, don't Cherry's going everywhere. And he's also he had some pretty cool tweets defending the police I saw up there and can't I don't know what the exact soil, but I saw him sentence tweets about about the police and some other things we when I say he's God. I mean, everywhere Don cherry goes, people are I get a picture, Don cherry, and he's a great guy. And I think that he just says whatever he wants he's always done it. And everyone's no one's like talking back to them, if they do it's not it's not right to his face is people online and people like say, you know. Writing thing. He doesn't care. I gives a fuck. He's an old legend that talks about what he wants to talk about. If you don't agree with them. Don't agree with them. He doesn't care one bit. He's going to give you opinion. And I think that's probably pretty way pretty sweet way to live. Yeah. I mean, listen I loved on. Sure. I think he's funny. I used to watch the rock them sock comes. I mean, I guess my only concern is he's kind of like the face of hockey in Canada where all these up and coming kids are watching hockey night in Canada, and he's ripping all his fun shit. Like, I mean, hey, listen, I'm not I wasn't down with the canes thing. I'm gonna go in like, stop and kick my feet about it. No. I wouldn't do it. If I was on the team, but I'm not going to be like shitting on national television regarding the celebration thing. I mean, I don't even do any research. That's does it because his daughter loves it was daughters watching the games. And he does she was bananas. Like, I'm I'm a sap you every time. You guys told him awful story in the pot. I'm crying, you think if my daughter wants the bird dance for my goals, I'm not doing the bird nets. Falkenberg dance. I think he has coups nets off. He knows he's rushing sees him doing that. And it just fucking easy for them to go out them think you're playing each you're playing into your fans. I mean, you're you're kind of playing who you are. And I think that he he loves doing that stuff. I mean, do you bring dawn chair you wake up some mornings? Imagine if you could tell them it's back and it's like the Canada Cup and haddish it's game eight tonight in Moscow like that guy lives for that shit. Never going away the other side of it. If I had a daughter, and she's like, I want you to get big bird outfit and do a dance for me. Every time score doing it. As far as the young young players. Honesty. Millennials don't give a fuck what he says? He's eighty five years old millennials don't care what forty five year old people say let alone eighty five year old Baleno is what's a sixteen. We're technically a millennial. But we don't. I I don't know if they have a new name for those like, it's like generation Z or something. Okay. So here's a prime example that when they they use like millennial numbers like millennials or not getting married as quickly as they used to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like they're not buying as big a homes like they're being smarter about the square footage of the action any homes. Another an issue to me is they consume a shit ton of frozen food, the frozen food industry that you know shit. You just pop in the microwave has skyrocketed over the last ten years. So that's not a good thing. What's another thing? And typically millennials a lot of them are just like offended by everything. They don't work as hard. They're on his hard working, right? There's so many easy ways to make money. Now. It's I don't know. Maybe I'm Rippin millennials too much. I'm considered a millennial, but I don't act like one. You're on the highest Gail millennials Grenell. He's on the lower end. But either way I don't think they give much of Schiller Jerry says he's just an institution up there. I think they're gonna keep mon- until he retired. Or he says something like truly bad that they're going to have to just let them go and the old that he gets the more likely that is the app, and frankly when I was at sports that for a little bit that year like, you know, you walk through the main hawk unite and Canada set and just like that whole setting like he has a he's a legend like if he's walking through the hallway. Everyone's like looking at. It's Don cherry random sock them. Remember, I saw the first one like rock twelve I was like there's been eleven more. The he's. Learning. What a dog. Let's go like eleven I can watch like. Yep. Blockbuster only has two and nine though I saw him once, but I couldn't bother him for an autograph. It was actually starting to bring it up. What's the night of Detroit won the Cup in Pittsburgh? And I was looking for the locker room, and I opened the door and I seen like garish suit and like the hockey night in Canada thing, and I was like oh Jon cherry by like, I was like fuck, man. I gotta find the cop. So I didn't even I didn't even bug him for a picture on. Yeah. I'll get back to you. I think throat Boston. He would've loved that. He still loves Boston. But you're like you're living movie of Wayne's world. Find yourself. These crazy situations all time, really. No offense. You you're just like your common fan, right? Like, I mean like oh you end up all these Cup parties after these game sevens. And then all of a sudden you walk in the room and Don Cherry's there the hawk it like how how do you find yourselves in these situations all the time? Snake? It say make it man. You just dot keet it with his act. I'm like you're supposed to be there. That's what I did that night in Pittsburgh, and no one no one bothered me until that fucking guy toss me out of the Roman Chellios back, and I'm up. But I'm yeah. You just gotta like I don't think it's a combination of street much just like playing the situation in pretending like you're supposed to be that used to be able to like fake and just scam your way into Seoul, many more things. Now, it you need to get like passes stamped and book and swiped and not someone credit card swipe your hoop like everyone's checking everything out go anywhere. All right. What do you mean? Not. All right. It's like this is like this was what ten years ago the last time you did all you don't believe in RA sneaking into things. His potential and what he can keep now that he could probably still do it. But fifteen years ago, he could do way more. We should we should do a content piece where we all go to the Stanley Cup final with new Amsterdam vodka. But RA gets none of the passes. And let's see if you can make it where we're. Where we're. All of a sudden these next dawn Sheri, and Ron MacLean when we're we're looking at passing around RA's picture to the security guards. Don't let this guy, and I'm trying to block you. He'll be there. Before you are he's like the guy in in ocean's twelve that goes through the laser machine. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. I'm dip dodge. Guy did like seven back. He was the French guy. Remember, the French guy who ends up stealing it. But when he steals it. It was the fake one because they'd already replaced it waking up with your movies Asian that hung out in the in the big vault. Yeah. That's another up. Yup. But like a girl that business in New York City with quickly boys. I got a couple of tweets today. And I just wanted to give quick couple stats someone Twitter haystack. I with when's the last time a team had plus one hundred or more goal differential in a single season. As of right now, the lightning sitting at plus one hundred you don't you know, when the last time it was it was two thousand five thousand six when the Ottawa Senators were plus one three on an eighty two game season. And you know, what happened wit ran into them in the first round and got worked over. So I saw that team in action. They were a wagon the second tweet. I got that. I wanted to maybe throw out I kind of appreciated the questions, and I gotta thank my boy Laurence Goldstein at NHL network. L G is the man he's our stack. Guru. He makes I'm stat junior junior compared to L G, but the other the other tweet I goes, hey, stack I wit, assuming droid Sal hits one hundred points, he needs one more. Most likely, thanks for the info. Matt when's the last time a team if ever had to one hundred point scores and missed the playoffs. Do you know when that was you guys? Wow. That's a great question. He nine ninety with the Pittsburgh Penguins. And Mario Lemieux and Paul Coffey who's Duff ensign hundred points. Thanks for coming. So to pretty cool stat answers to a couple of interesting questions. Actually, let me know. And yeah, I couldn't believe that eighty nine ninety is a long time ago. So to confirm to I've used this one on the us on a Minton broadcast when when the coyotes were playing Edmonton, you said that the last time a player had three consecutive hundred point seasons was Jeremy Roenick correct said there was like three guys or whatever I could find that we listened to it. But I have it written down somewhere. Okay. 'cause I dropped it on the broadcast. I wrong on just I would imagine somebody was listening. If it was it was like fuck I do. If I just say something in the middle conversation. There's a fifty fifty chances not true. But if I do like, stack guys, I'm like reading something drew. Telling the beginning of the entire statement, boys. 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The five barriers to growth, you'll learn how to acquire new customers increased profits and finally get real visibility and Tia cashflow. Get nets wheats guide crushing the five barriers to growth when you go to net sweet dot com slash chiklis. Now, download their free crushing the five barriers to growth guide today at net sweet dot com slash tickets. One more time net sweet dot com slash checklists. Actually just talking about the team on the potential decline. What about the Pittsburgh Penguins? They're going the opposite way. After hanging around the wild card spots for most of the season. The penguins led by the play of the imitable. Sidney Crosby served up the standings to get within three points of the defending champion capitals. But I'd say more importantly, the play of Matt Maher has been outstanding. He had an incredible match eight two and three nine three five safe percentage. Led the league in wins. He had the second best. Save percentage was funny. I was researching him a little bit exactly four years ago this month. He had an incredible match with the what is it sw? I was gonna say Scranton Wilkes wilkes-barre grand penguins four years ago air, we ping was. Brought up. That's right. He went seven one in one with a one to one and a nine five five save percentage. Three shutouts just in that month. So it seems like this kid raises his game when he needs to lead late in the year. I had that philosophy that these guys they just say they can't get up really for games earlier in the season. And they peak at the right time every year and Murray was rubbish at the start of the year. They had I think I think they kind of I wouldn't say put them on the shelf but gave the backup goalie a few starts in a row to get Murray. Back in things and dismiss right Smith playing a decent amount. Yeah. He was playing these planet decent workload for a backup. And people were you know, of course, the the always shouldn't have traded Fleury thing comes about. But I mean, it's just like the guy a couple of cups summer the fuck down, man. It's that twenty game stretch here. Don't hit the panic button. And I mentioned those moves at Rutherford those little subtle moves at Rutherford makes. I mean, he made the one where you got buke stab leaves? How you pronounce it? It and McCann from Florida and McCann's been fucking awesome odor. And then and then they ended up getting kind of their new Ian Cole. I mean, you can Cole was kind of couldn't find a home anywhere. Saint Louis and want him at all of a sudden human over to Pittsburgh and had success while they go get Branson. Dan, Cooper fans were crazy about him either. So it seems like he goes in these pieces or these guys can't find homes in any put some put them in the penguins lineup and they have success so wit, I'm I'm like the Pence. Yeah. Get Malcolm going again, get him back and going, and I it's like, I don't I've said it I don't think anyone's going to beat Tampa. But if Tampa ends up somehow playing the penguins in the playoffs like I dunno Crosby, Malcolm the Tang Murray when he's going like they could beat anyone. I mean, it's it's I don't think they're going to win the Stanley Cup this year. But if they do it's not completely shocking because their main guys, so I think it's exciting for for penguins fans to at least be seen some good hockey leading. And we were talking about San Jose's the other way. But the penguins look good Dana Hines, he's actually has has his Twitter and getting more fallers since we talked about it biz tweet me a lot of his stuff. Now, like pretty cool. He takes good stuff. Good pack does. And a lot of people are thinking just for the pint of scenes, look, I mean, it's one he's on like anyone else. Yeah. I mean member when he would he got to Pittsburgh, and he had like seventy five signs this unbelievable. The skies working like two extra hours every time. We get in somewhere to make it feel like everything's Pittsburgh home. Yeah. Home walk room. And you know, those numbers on McCann's since he's gotten over the penguins. He's been there. Twenty seven games eleven goals and five assists. I mean, that's three more goals in the end forty. Six games with the Panthers before this. So just a nice little subtle pickup. Buke sex on a bad player either. I I don't think he's had as much success as McCain has since gone over. He's played in twenty seven games with seven goals and four sis- for eleven point. So hey, couple good little pieces. But other pieces also I know this is random, but I'm watching Philly play Toronto right now. And they'll show to JV are who's a friend of the program could guy last thirty three games twenty goals. So that's a pretty insane pace and having him out for most of the year hurt hurt the scumbag. Flyers so good to see that. He's lighting it up on not completely change the subject on your, but Tyler Sagan. Dallas Stars going to Canadian road trip, this guy pussy flares every Canadian city this guys Dicks gonna fall off if he's doing that Canadian cities, you don't think they know line outside the hotel, it'd be doing that in like Columbus, like, you know, Nash somewhere hand random or you can go, and nobody knows you. If like say, hey Winnipeg Calgary Vancouver. I'm gonna see you just like thing. Ding, ding, ding. Back at the Costco, pack rubbers holy shit. This guy's gonna be kicking making tires. It's such a sickle. Winnipeg that Heston never say his name, right? Gave him a dish. She took it like it's to far and farmers off the post like just collected the puck with his foot broader shelf it up top like water bottle like fucking Sagan made up for that. NTN'er miss. That's a loft on a stick puck. Just goes straight up the angles. He can he can find on the goalie, man. It's it's been Anna lands. But yeah. So I any I mean anyone got a good looking girl in Winnipeg Edmonton Calgary and Vancouver. Wherever they went on. Tickets. We'll call California for the weekend. It'd be like that. Hagans in town like that. Yeah. It'd be like that seen at a semi pro and the guys like crush Melvin eighty limited swab let me make a bag of popcorn back in the day. Like Eshelman gronk and say and walks into a bar in Boston and guys have locking girlfriends running out of those out the door, take the ice pick just poke her eyes out all I slept. Oh, gee, I gotta ask you about something that you talked about the other night when we had a couple of cocktails, and by the way, I broke my boys. I'm so glad that I wasn't with the fellas. Seeing you guys hang out Faulk why isn't with their. But gee, you talked about the the one that you guys were a house party and Smith smashmouth stop by. Smashmouth story to sort of. No, it's like, no, go ahead. Yes. So they came up to Plymouth state played a concert, and after they showed up to my Buddy's house, and we partied there with them. And then they like to two AM rolls around in. I have a bang on my door. And who is it? It's like the drummer in like a bunch of guys from smashmouth being like, hey, like, we heard you guys are still up in party in here. Like any chance we can come in and hang out. So they came in. And we kicked it with math on. Are you? We were going on Brian Yan those bachelor party. This was like two thousand four I think even married forty years. It was all of our crew back home. And we were talking about like what I couple of guys final Thursday night couple of guys Friday morning, and we were just like shooting the shit like what's going on Friday night, blah, blah, blah, and our body foles. He's guys dead series. She's like this is unreal. We're staying at the hard rock hard rock was the spot, by the way rehab pool party. I don't even know if it's still going on either way. But it's my buddies like guys, dude, I saw that and hard rock smash most playing Friday night, we can go to that concert. Then go out Mike foles dude till falls to die hard smashmouth fan. Like do. We're going to go to a pool party, and then get a table, and maybe have dinner like three of us feeling hungry. Like, we're all set. We'll see after the smashmouth concert. Tom body wants tell me. All your song in me. But then you start at the superstar. We gotta talk about this doughty situation. Putting everybody on blast. Drew doughty roast verse. He should get a job at Boston water and sewer the way he was sewer and half the lead the other day in his interview. Yeah. Drew dotty wasn't shy with his opinions after Monday's morning skate up in Calgary before the kings game with the flames. I don't know if you had a rough weekend or if his frustration with the edges Poile dove, you know, shit team. He's been having shit. Yeah. But he gave him great copied other reporters, I gave some praise the Macchia Donald. But then he took some swipes at burns, Ian costs. And it just seemed weird. He said, you know, I watched Brent burns get beat twenty times a game. That's how I base it. They're not they're not the first penalty kill guys talking about burns and calcium just like taking these shots at them. And that, but the the real stuff was about Matt Yuka, Chuck he said, no respect from none. I respect everyone else. I'll never talk to him off the ice. He said nobody respects in the league. He's entertaining you guys, but he's not respected by most of the people in the league. It's not just me. That's just a fact I mean, I don't know how much. The fact that his he just seemed like he was pissed off. Bitta shitting on burns e Carlson. Ca Chuck, I don't know he pretty much hit for the cycle. What you think of those comments is? Well, first of all he did say some complimentary things to to burns in Carlson, and that kind of got swept under the rug just because of the negative aspect of the interview. And then of course, everyone tweets the negative things because that's going to drive the traffic. So let's not let's not ourselves throw. Drew doughty under the bus. So he as I said he was complimentary two guys said they're insane offensively. He just said there. They get roasted sometimes two three times a game. I mean fucked your dowdy doesn't give a shit. What else is new and I mean him and Chuck have a have a history. And I mean, if I'm Chuck I don't really don't look too much into it. Because if he's saying that then that means you're doing exactly everything you should be to piss off the opposing players best defenseman. Now, I needed a LA kings Calgary playoff series in my veins about I don't know yesterday. Could you imagine? And I prayed at LA figure things out and turn things around these two teams meet next year because this would be an electric factory. Yeah. It would it would. I think that doughty has spent a long year, dude. At one point. He goes the fuck though, I know the like minus twenty nine so I'm paraphrasing there, but we could tell just guys guys at game or he's sick and tired of having the season that he's that they're having and he's having I mean, he's pissed off. And I think it was kind of shocking to throw a little shade. At those guys. I mean, I know we did busy Saturday. He said that they're great. They're great offensively and things like that. But I don't know. I mean, there's no need to do it. I like the fact that he did just because it's it's entertaining. But. The hate towards could Chuck weird that he so vocal about it. Because it obviously, let's Chuck knowing he does a great job. Like if I'm Chuck on my I love that. Like as you say, I because I I was I was not like I didn't play with any fucking nastiness like that. But for him each this, isn't like, this is awesome. I one of the best defense, but he's a hall of Famer, and he hates my guts is that good. And it's to the point. Now, I'm wondering if maybe could Chuck cross the line by saying, I know that's what I mean. It was just a third time. He's brought him up. Yeah. And every time escalated, so he must keep doing what he's doing on the ice. I mean with video nowadays, you gotta think he's maybe like as he tried to injure, a maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Well that hit that started. The whole thing was a blind side hit a little way from the puck. That's what really pissed them off. And then it's gotten worse long grudge. I was interested to see when the auto media asked Brady about how how do you is other? And there was a great answer by. I didn't I didn't know I wonder how and he did say like, well, it means doing this job, by the way that kids like shit like Brady opened tickets. So it's like you're will Farrell to cook thing buddy, your funniest shit better body than by a little bit. Like got me doing a good job. Just got a haircut like that Pasha made him fucking haircut. So just buddy to see the ca-. Chuck brothers just pissing people off scoring goals. Just like their old, man. But the one thing I will say is nothing sucks. More than when like you like a lot of guys are volved, and they hate each other. It's kind of like the Reeves Wilson situation for me. They're both awesome guys. I wanna grab beers of them off the ice same. With doughty staying with burns and Carlson. But like, here's the thing. Now with what if you end up in the same river them and their opposite ends of the room who you're gonna grab beers with now all of a sudden, it's like you picks at one side of the other. That's why this year. Yeah. I think if you just gotta skate lane and people are going to be pissed at whoever, you know, somethings. You just gotta stay out of. But yeah match you check definitely has some serious real estate in his head in biz. I know he did he was a little bit complimentary. But he was more negative. I thought he said basically that burns and calls and didn't have anything close to his defensive upside. He said burns and calls, and they don't shut down the other team stop lines. They play against second third and fourth lines. I respect all the other guys talking about I respect it games. I just don't think they play enough defense. All you've gotta do is watch one San Jose Sharks game. You'll see Brent burns get beat three times a game. That's a separate quote. Get beat three times a game literally. And everyone has them up for the Norris. I just don't get it. So it was pretty fucking pointed pointed comments I thought and coming from a guy I spent three years in LA kings organization. Quick humble, brag not a big deal, and we used to watch a ton of their games and. He is a complete defenceman like he plays with an edgy place physical. He kills penalties pays power play. Like there. I mean, I know he hasn't had the best year this year, but not a lot of weaknesses in Doughty's game. And a lot of people always make the argument like oh Carlson's getting eighty points. It's like, I know, but he's you know, he's a riverboat gambler to and chances are going back yet away, and that's not taking anything against Carlton because he's a fucking elite world-class defensive. But when you're talking about winning Norris like I want to see somebody who can play defense and then also put a points while doing so another guy to me who on a consistent basis and all of our ackman Larson skies got six street season, double digits and goals only to only see, but he's got the riverboat gambler with them. Them who Beckmann Larson. Fuck. No, dude. He's falling all come on. He's a liability defensively you reliability, but I don't think Brent burns is a liability either. I think that he made a riverboat gambler. And it's it's not going to be like dhoti, your Jere, Donald. But ecm in Larson to me isn't like the leak defensive guy. All but he breaks up plays. Well, then you don't you don't spend enough time watch case where I don't see a ton of them. And I know that I've seen big plus minuses and minuses, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, they've been bad teams. But I've always never thought of him on the level as a really big two way. Defenceman I've thought of as burns and Carlson right because he doesn't pop out to you as far as numbers. I mean, he does like I said he'd double digits in goals are six years in a row he's had back to back twenty goal seasons. I know. But then there's nothing to do with what we're talking about. Right. And let me transition. So he doesn't pop out with the Carlson numbers. He's always like in the forty plateau. Between the forty and fifty range, excuse me. He plays with the Phoenix coyotes, and he's going gets top lines every night in order to do that. And also play against those top lines shut them down. He doesn't do it with like bone crunching hits. He's just so intelligent always in the right spot. Good stick on pox. He's he's a good two way defenceman more. So than Brent burns. I think the Narcisse gotten really too far away from the defensive part of the game to biz. It's it's basically just voting on offense defense Manal. That's all it's like an erect. That's exactly what no in true not wanted a couple years ago, and everyone was chara one one one and Lidstrom won a bunch and don't Keith one. Right. But I think what all-race saying is that a lot of people online are barking like, oh, it's twenty more points them. It's like who gives his shit. Fuck and play dean. I'm not saying I agree with which is the clarify. Just not. That's just the way. It's trending. It's just everything's about offense which is ironic because they're playing defense. I think maybe it's. Time for another would maybe offensive demand. Like what what what I think a Norris trophy winner is is a fifty five to sixty point defenseman where players teams are like fuck. I gotta play against this guy shave Weber he ate fun to play against. He's I think of Norris has fifty fifty five to sixty five and like just a like a like a physical, which is like fuck. This guy's so good. Can't get around them. They can't get around block shots place. All special teams, the Claire told me that they in the finals against Detroit. It was the legion of doom him, Ren Berg, and Eric Lindros. And they were like so fired up running through the east, and they ran into Detroit, and it was Lidstrom and Larry Murphy. And he's like neither guy really, you know, even was that physical at all. And they were so fucking good with their sticks. We could not do thing. That's Lindstrom like you would a fourth line, or at least the guys who were dumping the puck in would try to dump it by him, and he'd be tied up gap. And when you try to throw the puck, Bob he would bat over the air. Yes would practice it after practice, and he goes watch Lindstrom? It's too. I've never I've told you the Bobby Ryan story, right? No. I've told it on this podcast. I I I'm surprised we have a lot new listeners. So bought Bobby Ryan a love, Bobby Ryan. So we're in Anaheim in Detroit. I think it was the playoffs might have been. We lost game seven to them that year. I it doesn't even matter either way. While we Ryan goes to put one in. Us Shabazz's bats away. Like couple of shifts later bought Ryan goes to put one at the end of the shift Lidstrom, bats it away this fun of our bench. Randy. 'cause I only Faulk Bobby gets how fucking pocket. Bobby reid. Scallop tiny little little list. Like, it'll tell you great guy this. He goes to put another pocket and Lidstrom fucking fat like Joe DiMaggio. And bog rag? Fuck it. Bench member biting, my time like in my brain was laughing soul hard, Bobby Ryan often times, and again, Ryan's you did things I couldn't believe most skilled guys ever played with and even he couldn't get it by them. So that's I mean, there's a there's a prime example of not a guy needs to do with bone crunching hits. But just just a lot of weapons in that artillery. A guys before we go any further. I wanted to talk to you for second about array con guys it's twenty nineteen. Everybody needs a great pair of wireless ear buds nowadays. But before you, go drop and hundreds of dollars on a pet you need to check out the wireless ear buds from recon recon air, bud. Started about half the price of any other premium while she buds on the market, and they sound just as amazing the company was actually founded by Ray j and celebrities like sh- nuke Dauga already obsessed Ray cons, e fifty wireless. 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Join Kupa signed a multi year extension on Tuesday didn't say how many years the fifty one year old Kupa's three hundred one one fifty seven forty four and seven seasons with the Leiden. Good for. Six forty three winning percentage in no team has more wins oil points in the standings than him since his first full season back and thirteen fourteen. He's one of these fifty games in the season three times. He's got it the lightness and Eastern Conference finals three the last four seasons. He's a guy. No, we talked earlier in the year whether he might be on on the hot seat. It's safe to say, he's not this team likes them the players love him. And he's going to be there for the long haul. There's not a lot of coaches that are in the same city for too long anymore, but I joined Kupa seems to be an anomaly hairy what? Oh, yeah. I know I've said that this year. I don't think to me he wouldn't get coach of the year. I know it's crazy with the record. They broke she team show. Good. And I like I look at Trott's what the islanders have done, Bob. But John Cooper's been a coach that knows what he's doing since he got into the league and the rise. He had gone from the USA gel to the show. And like it was a what's the what's the term RA meteoric? I get that correctly. Yeah. Yeah. It was a meteoric rise in the coaching ranks for John Cooper. So I think he's got a little bit of a psychologist in them kinda comes off as is that a little never met him. But seems like not not not saying he plays mind games with guys. I'm just saying that I think that he takes everything in thinks about what he's going to say he's. I don't think he's a fly off the handle type coach. I mean, maybe I'm completely wrong there the sense. I get from seeing them do interviews. But that team is very good. And you got to really look to him and say they coaching part of that. I'm never going to say it's not involved completely. But he gets those guys ready to play. And and so his his contract extensions. Well deserved. Boys. When I think of his situation. I I go back to the Barnaby interview. And he talked about it when he was in New York, they had all the tools at all the guys all those skill players, but they couldn't put it together. And then when I think of John Cooper, and in some you calm down. Let me finish. What I'm going to say, you know, it's almost like you need that. Scotty Bowman mentality where he wasn't necessarily the best Xs and os guy. But I tell you what he could he knew how to read guys, you know, he he had the psychology part of down where he'd he knew how hard it needed to be on some guys he knew how you cheated to treat others and in order to to have a team that stack but still then put the results that they have it just goes to show. So definitely is going to be in consideration for coach of the year. I would have no problem with him winning it just based on all the expectations. They had can't coming into the year. And now putting him in the same breath. Scotty Bowman this team's gotta get over the hump, and that's going to be. His last true test. I know that the coach of the year has nothing to do with playoffs. But if I'm going to be putting him in that same breath. Scotty Bowman at least Chuck that big big nickel thing over your head one time give me one getting Scotty Bowman win like eleven Stanley Cups. Right. But but in a sense of like when he had the Detroit teams, they were stacked was able to fucking, you know, just. Just get used him. As like the gal. I mean, when's the last time we've seen a coach? I mean, let's go back to boost. Brutal. I mean, he he probably didn't do a great job of managing all those personalities. There were a lot of bad habits. That were creeping in a guys games. He had a stack team for a long time. And he could not get over the hump. I don't think he was necessarily great at managing those personalities and inputting guys in certain place. Now that does goes to show about, you know, maybe the culture at the time at least in that locker room at what it was they had salmon's, and they had some other guys that were you know, like a full blown Russians. But no, it's coops on a good job. And and that's why I use that comparison. But yes, I mean, he's my the win more than one. But let's start with one. Yeah. I think he's one of these new age coaches that really works well at millennials. He's certainly getting results. But like you said business, so you win the big one, man. That's that's always going to be a knock on you as a coach or a player. Also got a little news from the college ranks as well have a defenseman in prized defensive prospect, Adam FOX he's going to be returning to Cambridge for senior year at Harvard. Much to the chagrin of the Carolina Hurricanes, of course, Carolina obtained the rights to FOX and last summer's blockbuster trade with Calgary which they also team Dougie Hamilton Michael Furlan in exchange for Noah, Hannifin and allies. Lindholm needless to say, it's a big blow to the canes Bill. They do have his rights for another year. He's gonna be UFA after after he graduates, basically, and consign with anyone probably unlikely he does Siwei Carolina. I would say front offices around the league might want to make note that have guys like to get did degrees. So you're not going to see them leave enough to two years too often H A R V V A R D Harvard. Harvard Harvard we held by when there's remits at fourteenth. Seconds left in every period. No, they don't. Yeah. Six four new. There's like six fans near the band that go pie. I don't know if I've. White my life, but I like to live with it. Good episode, boys. I'm signing off after hearing that I'm gonna be suspending myself. They don't action give me a break. It wouldn't surprise me. I never heard that. With which and nerds boys. You think this is a Finnish job by badchi living. You think he knew he was going to end up staying in that way when he becomes a free agent. He's gonna get him. And all of a sudden that Lynn home. That Lynn home trade. Hamilton got Dougie got his fiftieth talk the other night truth living that trade was work job. I feel like because what's his name gone for it's gone. Right. And I mean Dougie I mean, how long doggy Hamilton gonna stay around. I can't stand a team than two years. Movers. He was getting traded this year. So I mean that was a finesse job. I love tree living. I think he's one of the best GM's in the National Hockey League. And yeah, and I had them here in Arizona. He was the assistant GM here. And we had a great relationship is old man's the one who started shark tank. Like, yeah, we'll drag Damon. No dragons den started in Canada that was like the original concept television show, and then became a shark tank in the United States. I don't know if he's got a piece of the American one. But that's where the idea came from dragons den Calgary, by the way, we're recording Wednesday night. They're playing Dallas at home tonight. They switched up the lines. They got good troll, Mon and Lynn home all on different lines. So it should see kind of what goes on there. That's been a it's been a sick little little three man unit all season, they're trying to get some depth going. I see before we finish up real quick. I wanna talk to you about Roman. Every guy wants to be a stud every guy wants to last long. You know, what sometimes about how many goals Wayne Gretzky scored? How many hits guy is Jim ski had doesn't always work. But the folks at Roman and online men's health company I'd change in the game with Roman swipes the secrets longer better sex. 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Gentlemen. It's been a tough season for new Allen to Andrew Ladd got even worse after missing much of the season due to knee and back injuries. He was starting to find his groove before he tore his ACL in Sunday's win over our Zona after he collided with Christian Fischer is going to be for five months. He's thirty three years old. He had eleven points in twenty six games. I said he was kind of starting to find his group a little bit. But unfortunately, they're not gonna have him for the playoffs. But that's a significant injury. We like to make note of those. But I think we're about to wrap up boys. We got a nice long Tack Fat juicy when foyer this week. Thank you, everyone always for this inning. It's no it keeps saying this. But give people time big tickets fan tickets fan. It's so fucking weird. But it's really cool. So they showed us that. We will see you guys Monday.