Men in Blazers 03/18/20: With Caitlin Murray
This is Rebecca Lowe. Will Rebecca if you listen to sub optimal radio and you on this thing to men in. Blazers on the NBC. Sports Network this world. And if you're listening to this let's just say one thing we're alive just alive but we're back with a special because global sports is reeling with the corona virus. Us A well played as managed to conjure an additional crisis. All of its own making this whole story family depressing. It's Pau for pooling story part legal procedural thing. I can repeat I meet telling him bail and I want to relive this with someone who full as the case day in day out because if we were all holed up in our own apartments right now this will be a massive massive new story so to help understand it deeper. It's a true delight to welcome to the puck eight journalist and author of the book the National Team the inside story of the women chained soccer. They didn't change enough. Say Four additional chapters written. It's a magnificent book even though I blood there on the back. Welcome to the poll. It's Caitlyn Murray Hi Raj. How're you doing Caitlyn? I am so happy to speak to you. You are in Portland Oregon. An area of the country that was first hothead by the Carina virus. How are you holding Caitlin Mary? Well I haven't left my apartment in fifteen days. I was sick so I stayed home. Which is what you're supposed to do. And then as soon as I got better we were told not to go outside to practice social distancing. So that's what I have been doing. You know if anyone has recommendations for how to pass the time really reaching that point where I might need them. Yeah there's nowhere to go. Everything's closed stores bars. Restaurants even Powell's bookstore is closed. So I've nowhere to go. I've got all the time in the world's stock to you so thank you for breaking up the Monotony of my dad. Oh fifteen days in an opponent you living my dream life. We are going to relive together. Critical story we're going to talk about the. Us Women's fight for equality as it talk but Tendai. Mike Barbaro a new on Maggie Haberman behavior. There's no access to analyzing. Let's go back to the beginning. Us Soccer and the US. Women's Union arena protracted battle remind us simply of the state. The women say that. Us soccer has been discriminating against them for years. It's not just pay. Pay is a huge part of it and the number that we've seen recently floated around as sixty six million dollars. That's what the players are seeking back pay. Because they say that you. A soccer hasn't paid them fairly. But it's other things that's non financial things it's hotel accommodations plane surfaces. I mean this is a fight. You know we'll get into it but the groundwork has been laid for years for this fight so this is sort of the next step in the women demanding better treatment and really sort of pushing. Us Soccer which is what they have always had to do in US soccer saying that the players have a union negotiated the terms of pay. The women are contending that run lawfully compared to the US meant right but the US soccer saying that it's a women's Union's fault the negotiating those terms. And if they don't like it they should blame the Union and management. Us Soccer Yeah. I think that's one of I mean I'm not a lawyer but I mean that sounds pretty lar- logical for us soccer to say. Look you had an opportunity to negotiate with us. This is the contract you came up with. You seemed pretty happy with it. But what the women say and something that came up when I was working on my book where we talk a lot about the negotiations is that the players ask certain things that. Us rejected outright. So there was nowhere to go and negotiations for certain things and the women have said that. Yes we negotiate a CPA but it was the best we could get and another thing that they've said repeatedly is you cannot collectively bargain away. Your rights your civil rights as an individual so that's sort of where this lawsuit takes us is that they say they have a but that doesn't mean that they haven't been discriminated against the caramel down was triggered by CO filings early March. Us Silica through. Its attorneys the little fomc full of ensure filed a series of legal documents in Los Angeles federal among them a memorandum. Finally heinous member on them attempting to the players claim that US soccer's violated the equal pay act entitled seven of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty fool to make it illegal for employers to discriminate against employees. Pay In this case on the basis of Jeddah I mean the content of some of. Us stock is argument which have now been red. High and wide shockingly offensive Kalem. We are talking Vanessa. Hutchins level stupidity can remind us of this movement of fully in dog. And that's what they say yeah so. Us akers legal strategy has been the same for months they. They have a lot of different arguments but one of them was. They were arguing that the women were not performing equal work to the men and that already sounds like we're on shaky ground. Sounds a little misogynistic but it was this most recent filing which came. I mean this is all happened so quickly I mean. Was it a week ago at this point this filing a week ago. It didn't just double down on this argument. It sort of took it to a new level. The language that used it said that the women are inherently inferior to men. Basically it said the women have less ability because ability is defined by physical attributes such as speed and strength in plain firm unseen requires a higher level of skill and they actually said in the filing. It says this is not a quote sexist stereotype. It's indisputable science and I don't know about you but when I hear someone say I'm not being sexist. But they're probably being sexist so they sorta knew they were right up on the edge of saint something really misogynistic and have crossed over into that zone but they still want ahead and did it anyway. Yeah I normally when I'm GONNA to say really offensive to so we'll always I don't mean to be offensive. You gotta warn people before you drop the bomb and yeah. That's what they did. They always comes out. My mouth the memorandum. The job of men's national team plans carries quite more responsibility than the job of a women's national team. Essentially this memorandum tried to claim. The women occupy inferior jobs in equivalent occupations for wage comparisons than those held by the mad. You in an obstacle the towing caitlyn the. Us Soccer tried to justify paying women less based on the same misogyny speak by twitter trolls. To Demean female athletes everyday. Us Soccer has good arguments. That they couldn't make I mean we just talked about the fact that you know the union negotiated for it. That's that's one argument that. Us Soccer can make they. Can you know try to argue that the US men's national even the US women's national team are separate entities? I think that's a little tough when they've tried so hard to you. Know Ram this motto downs down. Everyone's throat one nation. One team. I guess what they really meant was one nation two teams. But you know that's an argument they can make For Prize money is another thing but they chose the nuclear option. They chose scorched earth. They decided let's just say that women are inferior to men lots belittle into mean female athletes everywhere. They didn't really need to make this argument and yet they did I. I'm not sure who that was a good idea but here we are. The news breaks on a Monday while the US and the mets on the failed of winning the awfully named she believes by Wednesday. They came out for that warm-ups against Japan Nashville months ago wearing that training tops inside our acquaint brilliant protests both shade on US Sokha by removing their emblem and just highlighting the stars the wo- Cup Save One and it'll say through a veiled threat on sponsor Nike that they wouldn't always be represented by the state was brilliant. Yeah I think it was a really powerful image. When they did the pre-game lineup photo. It was every single player together with these sort of like very serious grave SCOWLS ON THEIR FACES. They were not smiling. They were sending a very clear message and it was funny after they did this. They were the the training shirts inside out so you could only see the outline of the crash in the four stars. I started to notice. All of the people like responding to my tweets or all of my notifications very quickly all became like a photo shopped version of that cress that outline and the stars so the fans immediately took that and started running with it. the US women's national team and one of their partners breaking tease. Put out a t shirt of that design. And I think that was their best Single Day of sales for that company breaking teas so it really sorta caught like wildfire and that was sort of the point where I mean sponsors had already started speaking out but it was the sort of thing we're like. This was snowballing and I think that's what prompted Carlos Cordeiro to then during that game released an apology. That quite frankly just wasn't enough yet. You mentioned Carla Cabrera. Us Soccer President suddenly in the fiery line. We're willing to Sui as not. Us Soccer Budo. Madison's a look none of us were talking about before we stood for president for when I think about him I think Carlos Barreto not really a good guy no not a soccer guy and I think people do think that he is someone who sort of entrenched in US soccer and when new Galati the former president of us soccer when he left because the US national team failed to qualify for the World Cup. Carlos Cordeiro was not sort of the establishment status quo guy. He sort of ran against the wishes of scenario gladdy. He didn't have a lot of support at first that he sort of had to get that after a couple rounds of voting in the US soccer presidential election but he he was a vice president. Who wasn't really out there doing anything like you said we didn't know who he was really he's a former. Goldman Sachs executive. He is not a soccer guy and he's made that very clear since he took over as president he's really deferred soccer decisions to other people. Any talked a lot about you know letting soccer people make soccer decisions it was sort of course correction because the former president of US Soccer Senio Galati was sort of unilaterally. Making a lot of decisions. Carlos Cordeiro wanted to change that. But I think what we've seen as us. Soccer has not changed enough in the time that Carlos Cordeiro became president and I think maybe he was deferring to the people who've been entrenched in US soccer for far too long. I will say I love the idea of Barrow as a look what we call remember not to get too inside the bubble but the key constituency who voted him in a fiercely contested election. Who Was it? It was the Athletes Council amazing. Why keep reminding myself about it? Was the group of current and former. Us Men's and women's internationals who are meant to represent the interest of the players in the first place. Who with a swing? Vote the kingmakers. The queenmakers Stu Holding Batman. Looking back at my notes and call US book. Negra with the council is lead spokespeople and they said that the telling Carlos Cabrera was candidate. We can unify behind one stroke by is that the athletes came in and supported an nfs Lee contested election with a wrong. Did they know what they were doing? Would they let down ultimately? What what. What happened inside their decision making process at the time? But how did it go so badly? All I think that Carlos Cordero during the campaign for the presidential election he said a lot of the right things I mean. He said things about the women deserving equal pay and how he was GonNa fix this problem and it was going to be addressed. I mean things that he said during his campaign are now being used in the lawsuit as part of the depositions for the women's national team because he essentially admitted that the women had not been treated equally in the court filings. I came out. There's a very interesting email from former. Us Soccer Presents Neo Galati. Who was really angry at what Carlos Cordeiro was saying during the campaign and he said it was responsible for Carlos Cordeiro to be out there saying that. Us Soccer was in treating the women equally. So I think in terms of what curro promised there was a reason why he got the support of the athletes. He just hasn't delivered on those promises. Unfortunately we get the news leaking in US soccer filing. It's undisputed that job. Men's national team player requests materially strengthen speed than the job of women's national team player. I want to break the responses down from the different constituencies in the football will. What was the response? First of all from the play. As having to win games on the failed I will say after the Japan. Gay Making Pino's words post game. They made me tear. We've sort of felt that those are some of the undercurrent feelings that they've had for a long time to to see that as the argument is as blatant misogyny and sexism as the argument against us. is really disappointing. But I just want to say it's all false to every girl out there to every boy out there who watches team. Who wants to be on this team or just months to live their dream out. You are less just because you are a girl. You are not better just because you're a boy we are all created. Equal should all have equal opportunity to go out and pursue our dreams and for us that means on the soccer field so everything that was in that deposition of what they said. The argument is just not true. Don't ever believe that. What did you hear from the players side? Well the very first thing I heard was the spokeswoman for the players Molly Levinson. She's sort of the person who is speaking on behalf of the players throughout these legal proceedings. Because usually the players aren't directly responding to all the back and forth that's going on and she had a great response She said that. Us Soccer's arguments belonged in the Paleolithic era. And it sounds as if it had been made by caveman so that was really funny. But I think Megara Pinot really sort of crystallize this whole discussion. This whole lawsuit. When she said that the players had felt for a long time that sexism was behind the way they were retreating being treated by us soccer and essentially this despite improved it. It's pretty interesting that. Us is defending itself against accusations that it was sexes and it defended itself in the most sexist way possible. That didn't move us. Sokha Will Meghan repeated. Had to say that it was hard but then the sponsors backlash kick. Did I mean the reputational damage for your visas? You're Volkswagen's you Coca Cola's you deloitte's it's impossible for the browns to defend and us. Soccer has to listen to that. Because threat sponsors invoking moral clauses would mean. Us Talk Elisa's millions of dollars in projected revenues. That was a game changer. Yeah I mean. As soon as money gets involved people starts pay attention and Coca Cola was first they came out and said it was quote unacceptable and offensive and then the other sponsors just started pouring in with their own statements. Deloitte said it was deeply offended B.'s and Budweiser both said that. Us Soccer's position doesn't align with values is not one that they share. The strongest one was Volkswagen. That came out and said it was disgusted by the positions that US soccer had taken and they are unacceptable and a number of sponsors vowed to reach out directly to us soccer and express their concern. Wouldn't you look at these brands? I think a lot of them are attaching themselves to us soccer because of the US. Women's national team no offense to the US men's national team. But why would anyone be concerned about attaching themselves to that team right now? I mean since two thousand eighteen. It's been sort of you know hard to be excited about the. Us Men's national team the players on the US women's national team represents something larger than sports. The they are sort of these figureheads in the symbols for female empowerment and you know progressive values in a changing landscape and sort of being able to push the status quo. That's what this team is about. It's in their DNA. They went on the field. They also went off the field with everything that they've taken on and I mean. Us soccer split out there sponsorships. We don't you know this is something that comes up in the lawsuit. We don't really know how much sponsorship money is directly attributed to the US women's team versus the US men's national team. But I would wager a guess that these are really interested in the US women's national team so for us soccer to take this position where it is in this ugly fight that is just devolving into something pretty unsavory. You have to be able to see. Why SPONSORS WOULD BE UPSET ABOUT THAT? Are you trying to tell me? Caitlyn the volkswagon arm flinging all this money a US soccer solely so they can get the image of justice are. That's driving a jet up because this is breaking news. They were speaking out. It was just the Brown speaking out then. The board started to speak out about what was going on. I up Cindy Paulo Code then vice president of US soccer quickly followed by MLS. Commissioner Don Garber WHO's also on? Us Focus Board of directors for quick to leap pin distance themselves. Completely from the Memorandum Gober said the memorandum. Defend saving quote unacceptable. I did not understand this movement. I've got to be honest. They will be on. Us Soccer's board. How how could they don't like a US? Soccer filing briefings on behalf of their board or no empowering them to fulfil a legal responsibility as members. Yeah I think that's sort of gets to a larger issue that this situation has shed a light on which is the weird governance structure of US soccer. That makes no sense I mean. Us soccer still run like a mom and pop organization? That is not because the board positions are paid zero dollars. They are volunteer positions Carlos Cordero President of. Us Soccer also paid zero dollars. It's a volunteer position. The board members have indicated that they didn't know that this was the legal strategy Carlos. Cordeiro has come out and said that he didn't have a chance to review this and it's easy to just think that these people are lying because they don't want to take responsibility but honestly. I'm not sure that they actually read any of this. I mean the filing where these very sexes arguments were buried in. It was twenty six hundred pages and these are all into your positions. I went to a board meeting a US. Soccer Board meeting in December. And I did not get the sense that these board members were involved in the day to day and were regularly you know kept in the loop on what. Us Soccer was doing. There's a larger question about the way. Us soccer is wrong and they really need to address that because the president of US position. He's essentially working fulltime. I mean Carlos Cordero who so involved and for it to be a job that's unpaid. Of course you have a guy who's a former Goldman Sachs executive because you have to be independently wealthy to do the job it. It's not attracting great candidates for his role so there's a whole issue as far as the way. Us Soccer is structured and run that sort of a side issue. But it's an issue that needs to be addressed twenty six hundred pages. The only book. I've read that as long as the first volume of Bruce. Arena's also biography mentioned the US women's Plans Union they off a spokesperson Molly. Levins and full disclosure. A name only personally. She was a classmate with my wife out Wellesley. Go Blue and a half to say she handled last week. It was light and tweeted base. My watching Kelly C. Burned down the coals and emerge unscathed from the fire. Us talker had in that moment. Just expose themselves publicly. Awfully Molly delivered a ruthless withering brewer side it was like watching a two-footed tackle from Juliet fly in. She said well it's gratifying. It's been such a deafening outcry. Thank you talk. As blatant misogyny the sexist culture and policies seen by call us guitar have been approved for years by the Board of directors at. Us Alka this institution must change. She was taking a small point and say no no no. It is so much bigger than even what we see the court. Filing this tip of the iceberg. Carlos Cordeiro resigned. That's good I asked. That's you know that's what people are calling for. But that doesn't really fix anything I mean. Us Soccer is so entrenched in this idea that well this is how we've always done things so this is how we're going to continue to do things and you know. I talk a lot in my book. Abou- US soccer really needing to be pushed to change things. And you know when I was working on my book. I sort of quickly realized that the story of the. Us Women's national team is not a story of just you know triumph on the field and games and that sort of thing. It was a story about being in boardrooms and biting with US soccer. You know there's a scene in my book. Were Julie Foudy. Mia Hamm are sitting at a table with Bob Council Julia the former president of US soccer. And they're telling him off to his face telling him that they're never going to play soccer ever again because of the way. Us soccer treats them so. This is a very long standing issue. I think it's entrenched in the way that the federation approaches things and the way the federation views things and the people at the Federation of been there for so long. I don't think there's been a lot of introspection about why are we doing the things the way we're doing them? They just sorta just keep plodding along. And by the way when you talk about that story with the Great Julie. Foudy a ham. They were fighting to get more than ten dollars. A day. Stipends but you play crappy defense against nephew as women stay on the field of bless the thing goes against shave and then this movement. Us socking you. This was the case off the field the US stock aboard with suddenly in the same position essentially as Thailand in the women's World Cup so lost Thursday night. Call us. Cadaver resigned saying my one and only mission has always been that they want the best for a federation. I mean to me is great. Achievement in my mind was secure my dream of having the game. I love soccer on the lips of every American. Even though you don't like the sport and he made it come true but for possibly the worst of reasons is this. Awful stories was absolutely everywhere. We're GONNA talk about the immediate ramifications but I'm going to ask how much of all of this was actually solely call us cadavers fault. Honestly I don't know any of it was really his fault because like I said. It's an unpaid volunteer position. I I do think that any suggestion that he didn't know the legal strategy or you know. That wasn't clear. I think that's false. I think everyone has known for months that. Us soccer one of the things they were going to argue that the women are not performing equal work to the men. And you know you look at the player depositions Carli. Lloyd was asked months ago about whether the women can compete against teenage boys whether the women could win in a game against the senior men's national team. This was the strategy. So I'm sure Carlos Cordeiro knew that I'm sure a lot of people at the federation knew that but in terms of this being Carlos Cordero's responsibility or his doing. I have strong doubts about. I mean there are people who are still at us soccer even though occurred Arrow's gone. He is resigned. There are people who still work in. Us Soccer House who devised the strategy. Or were on board with it I mean. Us Soccer has an in house. Legal Counsel Little Walkie who I think. Was You know supportive of this new about it? GREEN-LIGHTED IT. So there are a lot of people there who were responsible. I don't really know to what extent Carlos Cordeiro was directly responsible. I think he just said okay. That sounds good. I don't know he really knew the finer details of the argument when I used to live in. Dc One of my favorite restaurants called House of beef at through love the American tradition of naming buildings after the most basic thing that's related to the fact that we have a soccer house a whole house the whole building may down stock fills me with joy but US stockings by Lewis. Have it in the case of resignation? The vice president's steps up to finish off the job search rise up Cindy Paulo cone who've been reelected last month as you talk as vice president. She was the first in line to succeed. Cadaver right we should applaud cheesy. First woman. To say didn't seven year old organization as a player many of you have seen but she was a fine for eleven goal scoring warrior. Play posted seventy five zero and one hundred and fifty eight glory-filled. Us appearances three NC double A. Titles to Olympic gold medals and he will come as a nineteen ninety nine. But can you give us a sense of Cindy Paula? A soccer bureaucrat. Well that's a great question. I don't. I don't know if we know that. Much about Cindy parlow cone. The soccer bureaucrat. We know a lot about her as a player. She was the coach of the Portland Thorns for one year and then she stepped down. I think maybe there's more to that story. I think the thorns Kinda wanted to get a new coach. I mean she's she's been on the board from what I have heard. Carlos Cordeiro really wanted a female vice president. He really supported her candidacy and wanted her to be on the board but traditionally I actually don't think the VP AT UA. Soccer has done very much. There's a reason why none of us really knew anything about Carlos Cordeiro when he ran for election when I was working on my book. I folks other previous. Vp's and I clearly got the sense that they were not involved in any sort of decision making day to day really didn't know what was going on so I don't I don't know how much she's been involved in things and that's sort of interesting question is what sort of president is she going to be. This is not the position she signed up for. She signed up for something. That was very part time again. All so unpaid. She has a job as the director for North Carolina. Fcc Youth System. She has a kid like she's got other stuff going on in her life. This is not the job that she signed up for another look portfolio but let me ask the big question. Everyone is wondering right now. Paula Code in some way related to the BERHALTER family issue cousin marriages any connection to so I am not aware of it. Seek change traditions. Holter calling the shots there but yeah not not as far as I know so the battle between us talk and the US Women. It was expected to head to trial may fifth trial. I think speaking to both parties six seven months ago. Neither really wanted but things have just gone so rutted just so angry from both sides In the run-up Three January and February. The trial was becoming a real possibility. But how many sudden changes in? Us Soccer all the lightly project you at the teams. Paek with a lawsuit and well. I think that the pressure is now on. Us Soccer to get this dealt with news quickly as possible and settle and you know write a check and make this go away because the sense I got before all of this stuff happened was that US. Soccer was really anxious to try to sit down and figure out a settlement. I mean before all of this happened. Carlos Cordeiro issues issued this letter where he said that. Us Soccer had offered the women the same that the men are paid. He made this really public showing about how. Us Soccer's trying to sit down and get a deal done and just based on conversations. I've had with people on both sides. I did get the sense that. Us Soccer was anxious to sort of. Get this figure it out now at this point. Us Soccer is clearly reached diminishing returns. It's hurting the more than it's helping them to try to defend against this lawsuit they really have to get this settled and I think that in terms of the payout that the women can get that has probably gone up. I think they are much better position to get get leverage and now that Cindy parlow cone is in there. She is a former player on the. Us Women's national team. She has seen some of the terrible treatment and the double standards that have been applied to the women over the years. She has lived it so even though she was. I think recruited by Carlos Cordeiro to be on the board and she was sitting on the board. And you know she. She's been on the other side. I think there's going to be an element of empathy. That maybe wasn't there before. She has vowed in her public statements. That she's going to repair this relationship. She's going to get this figured out. The goal is to get a deal done and I would think it happens before it has to go to trial and we'll see what happens with the trial anyway with the current advisor stuff. Probably will we push back? That's GonNa give everyone even more time to figure out a way to settle without having to go to trial though Caitlyn Murray. Where are you now in terms of the assumption between? Everything's GonNa Change now. Oh we should brace ourselves. Let's be realistic. Is going to be more of the same well. Us Soccer has resisted. Change her so long that it's sort of easy to expect that there won't be very much change but I mean look. They are going to a new. Ceo At some point. Hopefully they can find someone to take the job They'RE GONNA have new people making decisions. I think that what Heather O'Reilly says right. Us soccer needs to go through a length the reorganization process. And I'm not sure how long that will take I'm not sure to the extent that everyone is on board with it. But that's clearly what needs to happen. If they think that you know just having depar- CONAN there is Gonna fix everything. It's not so I wouldn't say that I'm super optimistic. But it's still very early. We haven't really gotten a sense of what kind of president that Cindy Parlow. Cone is going to be beautiful. You all of this is rooted in the Federation's attitude. The women ought to be thankful for whatever they get. That's nothing goes all the way back to the eighty s and the nineteen ninety. Yeah I mean the women at some point. We're being paid ten dollars per day and the men's team was being paid twenty five. The women were taking a hotel shuttle vans to their games in the men. Have Luxury. Bus Liners so this is something that The women have sort of lived for years at this point and I think some people thought that when this law sue came out that it sort of came out of the blue that it was unexpected when in reality the. Us Women's national team has behind the scenes. Been having fights like this with us soccer for years. So it's just sort of in their DNA The former president of US soccer. Bob Kahn screwy told me that the players they had a fighting mentality they fall on the field and they carried that off the field they constantly hadn't so fights with the federation and I think that sort of instruction instructive and it's important context when we think about these things. It's not just about playing on artificial turf grass which is something that comes up in the lawsuit. It's not just about sixty six million dollars in back pay which has come up in this lawsuit. It's about years and years of double standards in treatment. Were you a soccer said. You're lucky that you get to play soccer. You should just be happy with what you've got. I mean the thing that familiar so sad in terms of all of this is the football in America. We've always joked kaylynn on this. Show that football America's sport the future but it has always been a culture that's believed itself to be more progressive more path. Finding more pioneering brief in terms of other sports in the US and also the women's Soccer Federation's around the world and all of this. It's given us all pause. Socal ask you in terms of wider change has to happen facilitate positive change to occur at. Uso. Yup I think if there were an easy answer maybe. Us Duet although. I'm not sure that's a guarantee but I think it's it's a complicated question. I personally think that there needs to be a rebuild because you are soccer started as this little mom and pop organization in Colorado Springs the. Us Women's national team sort of started by accident. It wasn't like anyone thought. Hey we need A. Us Women's national team the US was invited to play in the tournament and Italy. One thousand nine hundred eighty five so they just sorta whipped a team together. Found some leftover men's jerseys in a warehouse and sent them to go play in the game so I think that. Us Soccer hasn't really evolved with the Times. Everything has just sort of happened by happenstance. And just SORTA with it. But they've never really looked at like. How can we evolve with how much the game has grown? Us Soccer's a huge organization? They have hundreds of full-time and part-time staff across the country. But it's still sort of feels like the mom and pop organization that it was back in the eighties nineties when the US women's national team was having to constantly needle the federation and threatened to go on strike and Boycott Games. And do things like that. I mean at one point. The women's national team got the US Olympic Committee in August and reported us soccer to the USOC. So you sucker needs to sort of has some self reflection and evolve. Pass what it's been which I don't think they have done yet today in should be said. The R- is incredible joy. The women under the management of new head coach flag. Care on a scale up playing some of the best football icy and God bless you Kristen. Press and Lindsey Horon. God bless you will say Caitlyn Murray and by God I oversee I mean becky sour brewed. You are amazing. We will have a real football and W. S. L. Football to talk about again very soon but until you book the national team the inside story of women have changed soccer by Caitlyn. Murray at Caitlyn. I think a blurb on the back of that book with something like that definitive telling the dreams of the skills and enormous sacrifices that have been made to bring Paler success on the failed and the fight for Equality v Caitlyn. I've gotta say I'm so grateful to you for walking through this and I do look forward to raising point with in person when this is all Asia Z. Harouna rightous say how they stay. Strong Caitlyn Murray keep on trucking encourage. Thanks Rach thanks for having me.