Honky tonk angels
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We can learn more about listeners like you. And thereby make your favorite podcasts. Even better. This is your opportunity to tell us what you like and tell us what you don't like it should take about fifteen minutes to complete. Just visit slate dot com slash podcast survey to participate. We really appreciate the feedback. This is where sixty I'm currently at. I'm sitting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial this first level of guard. This Thomas Jefferson's vegetable I'd like to have the roasted chicken waste, very well done editing all about timing. I tried to get a little bit away from the actual subject. Must get sick place. Right. Studio. Three sixty with good Anderson. Today on studio. Three sixty we are looking at country music past present future in mind, Brassica, childhood. I had a soft spot for country music, partly because my parents so disapproved later at college and afterward, my phantom continue, partly because the eastern elite didn't get it or disapprove. And it's interesting that soon much great country music was always performed by women. Patsy cline? Loretta Lynn, Tammy Wynette, and Dolly Parton, whom I once drove for hours to see how interestingly unlike rock music that was where women were largely excluded from superstardom and mainstream country remained female friendly that way into the nineteen ninety s with gigantic stars like Shania Twain. And faith hill. Reba mcentire. Then more, but these days on country radio the big hits are by men what they call bro country. In fact, this past December all of the top twenty artists on Billboard's country airplay chart were men which had never happened before. And so what the heck did happen are bona fide expert on this subject is Julie height country music. Journalists in Nashville who just wrote an article in slate with the headline the women have country have had enough of playing by Nashville is rules? So Julie as I've explained women used to dominate country. Why did that Peter out at the turn of the century? You know, I think that one thing that laid the groundwork for it was what happened with the Dixie chicks in early 'oughts. You know, you had this group that got in trouble because I mean, Natalie Maynes made a very offhand remark. Mark criticizing then President Bush in front of a British audience at a concert. That was in the Arab before. Right. Win the Iraq war had. Yeah. Exactly. And then the Dixie chicks sort of refused to apologize for speaking their minds. So that just didn't sit well with a lot of people who make programming decisions at mainstream country radio, and you know, they parted ways with the format for good. And I think that maybe that had a little bit of a chilling effect in terms of women in country who weren't afraid to be themselves or speak their mind. You know? But really there's this thing called tomato gate that had in twenty fifteen heard about that radio consultant Keith hill said that radio stations in order to get good ratings should not play female artists. Too often indefinitely not to female artists back to back. I play great female records. And we've got some right now. They're just not the lettuce in our salad. The lettuce is Luke Bryan. Blake Shelton Keith urban artists. Like that the tomatoes of our salad are the females this gave birth to tomato gate that wasn't a new idea. He was spelling out the way that people were already thinking and things that are already being put into practice. I mean, I think it became so scandalous because it really struck a nerve. It was galvanizing. So if country radio is no longer the path that it was for for country women to become successful. Well, I mean, we're no longer dependent on terrestrial radio. What about you know, all the other ways to get your music out is does that work for women. I mean, the rules are a little bit different when you're trying to build a career in that world because terrestrial radio does hold more sway in country than it does in others genres, this point still it's interesting that country is still rooted in trust radio in that conservative way. Is it also true that the country music performance, circuit is more of a circuit than other genres? You see a lot of artists kind of developing by being opening acts on arena tours opening for bigger stars. So there to say, you're a arising woman in the field Rono trying to find your footing. If you can't get good slots on tours than that makes it more of a challenge. To. But also there have been a lot of women recently like mayor and Morris and Cam and Casey must graves who have decided to open arena tours for male British pop Popstars instead. So let's listen to some music, and you mentioned Casey must graves. Yeah. Who's a big star? This is her hit from from last year called high horse. Classic. Kills. Let's Casey must graves so poppy. And like listen to that song a couple of times. And I thought okay, if it didn't mention John Wayne and didn't have giddy up in it. I I I wouldn't it doesn't sound like a country song to me except for those sort of signifier -t's, right? Well, I mean country did have its disco moment. If you look back in Dolly Parton 's catalogue and Ronnie Millsaps catalog, but yeah, I mean for for Casey musk graves in particular, she was pushing her sound, you know, there there are other tracks on the album that have a little bit more of her particular angle on a vintage western sound, but people also really responded to tracks like that one from her, you know, her disco side, you know, obviously was was a breakthrough album last year because at one CMA album of the year, and then it's up for a Grammy in the album of the year the all genre album of the year category, which which doesn't happen very often. I mean, we've looked at you look back at the Grammy nomination history. I mean, she's here. She is up against Cardi B and Drake. I mean that doesn't happen. Very often where a country album is just one of the main albums. Yeah, you're right. It is not a comma. Occurrence the song that you just played did not get radio airplay. But you know, that was sort of beside the point. I mean, she had great visibility and and all of this success and attention, and you know, Ben. Tonight, live and and. TV bookings and without even worrying about not getting radio airplay. So I think she has given a lot of artists permission to find alternate routes. Right. I wanna play a very different kind of artist. Actually, McBride get these calms. Juice. Radio. We always say. Meghan. Back when. Don't. All. Oh. When you gresh and burn. Member we tone. So. That's actually McBride song is girl going nowhere. Now that seems beautifully nicely. Classic could have appeared in any year of the last. I don't know fifty sixty right, right? And she's a singer songwriter. And I read you talking about the, you know, singer-songwriter thing, and it hasn't been as much a an obligatory thing or a standard thing to be to write your own songs, if you're a country music performer, and so that's another way that she and other of these women in country can. Go a different way. It's not just oh, here's here's a here's a hit that somebody wrote for me. I'll sing it. Right. Absolutely. The mentality in Nashville was that either you were a professional singer or you are a professional songwriter, but those were two different gigs and that has been a pretty drastic change. There are a lot of rising female voices in Nashville that started with publishing deals as professional songwriters. And then he had some sort of realization that what would work best for them was to try and do their own stuff. What would be the most satisfying or the most likely to find an audience, or you know, or maybe that no one was likely to record the stuff that they were rioting. So you know, so the the pivot toward toward doing their own thing. And and kind of putting their own perspective out there. Owning. And as their own perspective, another performer, you've you've talked about Merrin Morris. I want to play a bit of her song from years ago called I could use a love song. Kuku? Take the edge off clicks. Seen in hot Bibi. Just kidding. Hugh Stewart now dome. Oh. No, the can take. Let it cute. I mean that that song what made it interesting here in that come from a young artist in the country world was her vocal approach. I mean, she has a really big voice with and Morris. You have one of the earliest artisan country to be singing in that low range and making it sound so much more casual that's a huge change in the way that country artists sing instead of just belting or singing hard or or kind of projecting emphatically. You know, that I think it was a generational shift that she really helped usher in that that kind of more millennial since ability of being deliberately casual and intimate and conversational in the way that she sang. And even though that's a very country sounding song. I wanna play a little bit of another thing. She did another song. She did last year called in the middle by this German producer called Zad. I mean, all Cynthia in dance, poppy. And like, wow. That that really that's the same artist. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean that definitely is an example of a successful crossover moment that was a huge song. And you know, and lots of people heard it on target add. But you know, what else that song proves it proves that. And I've seen a lot of research that that speaks to this that it is often country artist who are women who have more crossover appeal, or who are more distinctly identifiable, or who, you know, are more likely to get a place a song in a target ad or that sort of thing, you know, get branding up. -tunities Merrin Morris can do a song like that. And have a huge pop crossover moment and boost her visibility kind of across the board. But she can also so long as she says that she still. Wants to be a part of the country world and doesn't want to leave it behind as Taylor swift has you know, she can kind of have it both ways. But it sort of a, you know, a deliberate choice that an artist can make to make it clear that they're not disassociating themselves from country. Right. Well, you you talked about how fifty years ago the Dixie chicks got banished essentially of from being a political during the Iraq war. So here's mayor and Moore's and and Casey must graves saying progressive things about LGBTQ progressive things about gun control. And they're not banished. Yeah. I think I think that the atmosphere kind of across the board in terms of artists making quote, unquote, social or political statements in Nashville right now is one of very gentle. Mild sort of expressions of live and let live tolerance. Julie. Hi, you have made me realized that there's all this activity below the giant superstar level that makes me hopeful about this musical tradition and dare I say about America. We don't want monocultures in anything and good that women women are the ones in country who seem to be proving the virtue of that. Yeah. I think it will be L be very interested. Having you know watched particular things emerging last year. I'm going to be really interested to to see how they continue to play out in twenty nineteen. Well, come back in twenty twenty and tell us how that worked out I'll be happy to Juliet. Thanks very much. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Julie height is a reporter who lives in Nashville, and you can read her article. We talked about at slate dot com. Coming up. I talk with the country star who authentically needs no introduction. Better introduce me. Anyway. The fantabulous. Dolly Parton is up next on studio. Three sixty hidden. Phelan new as gene? Bobby? Because we're in American Chinese co production. There's a lot of different people involved in both countries. This is Josh Cohen. He's a co producer and the post production supervisor on the film, the farewell which is premiering at the twenty nineteen Sundance film festival Renault. We're working in the thirteen hour time difference. That's something that dropbox makes easy. It's organized where we're accessing it in both places. The farewell was filmed in China, and it's based on the real life experiences of the director Luwan and the trip. She took there to visit her dying grandmother. This is something that happened with Lulu where her grandmother and China was Kim this diagnosis family decided to keep it a secret, and as an excuse to bring everyone together in China because the family's kind of spread out throughout the world, the stage in impromptu wedding to really see the grandmother and Sega by one last time because so many of the actors were base in China. Dropbox was essential for eighty are or automated dialogue replacement. There may be some. Lines where the production sound is not great or someone's off camera. You may want to add a line change lot. And so you go into eighty are where you bring the actor into a recording studio you have to send them video reference files. So that they can line it up with time code and all those different files. Arguing shared over dropbox. Whether it's in America, or in China, they all need to be on the same page. Learn more about how your team can use dropbox to bring great ideas to life at dropbox dot com slash flow. Three six. On this hour of the three sixty we are taking a long look at country music where it's going where it's been. I spoke with Dolly Parton in two thousand five about her new record at that time. Those were the days of all things covers of nineteen sixties protest songs which she released by the way at the peak of the Iraq war, we met up in her hotel, suite in New York. Now, you have written literally thousands of well, I've been at it since as a little bitty kid, and I'm getting up there. And I write all the time. So that that makes for a whole lot of songs, you're still writing. Oh, yeah. Do it all the time. But this is all cover songs of songs. People like us grew up listening to the radio. Yeah. The sixties and seventies was great time. It was the sexual revolution. I still sure who won though on that one. On that one. But these are songs that that I've loved that have touched me in that I used to actually sing before had an of songs that were recognized by people when I would do shows on the road. I would do some of these songs because nobody ever has enough of their own and people like to hear recognizable song. So I thought well, I should actually do these Soanes. Will I love where both flowers gone off Allott because a loved sing with no Jones and leeann Womack, but I just love that song because it fits voice. Really? Well, I love those kinds of songs those old world Irish e kind of songs that kind of fit my voice. Well. DNA DNA. Yeah. It does. It goes back a long way. You one. Iranian likes that one. I love of of never get into sing with Keith urban best. The only song that's not from the sixties and seventies. That's from the fifties. I think fifty seven when Johnny Mathis had that out. But I wanted to really beautiful loved you it saying with Keith I didn't wanna just using much more cheerfully upbeat. Johnny Mathis, Tim. Yeah. They say he did it as a rare. But of course, I want to have a little flavor of of to cannibalize it and to me it was like some of the other things I had done on the past albums Grass's. Blue little Sparrow, where I took a few of the Ol- tones like the shine and kind of put a little bluegrass flavor and a few things that they would lend themselves well to that uptempo where you play in a double time. But you still sing it slow. I don't think it took away from the emotion of it. But it's still countrified in bit and bluegrass just a little bit stayed in the Lovin feeling thought, maybe I was discovered crush on teeth and just thought it. Sounded like that did me. On new. Cow. As I was getting ready to talk to I couldn't think of any other performer in my lifetime who is both. So. Deeply authentic as a as a person as a performer end so flagrantly artificial at what is that? I'm does that appeal to that. I've been that all my life. I always said if you know, there's most fee some kind of a magic in the fact that I'll that I'll look totally artificial in that I'm totally real because his true, but you know, what marred official nece really comes from a sensor place. It was what a little country girls idea of glamour was and you know, like, the my first impressions of people that I thought were pretty or beautiful, and we didn't have anything, and I certainly am no natural beauty. So I got any looks at all as out painting on bald. Or was the idea of beauty those types of people that I had pattern Malo after the town tramp. It's true. But it was I'm sure she was influenced by the Maryland's, and all, but I just love the, you know, Tom Trump in your ten. Yes. Yes. And that's the truth. And it's still. Well, no. But she was she was really beautiful. She was blonde. She had yellow hair. She wore skirts and shed pre-election wore high heels, and she even had a pair of shoes. High heel shoes that were plastic and head plastic goldfish in the heels and to a little child of when we did get to go to town of mountains. I'd just remember just being off hundred red lipstick and her nails. Our just remember saying I remember being in town when my mom one time. Oh, she so Purdy. She is love you phone most out, she just trash, and I thought that's what I wanna pay you grow up. I wanna be trade because I thought that was like a word meaning how you looked. So I grew up now is it not didn't become trash, but I'll look like trash, but that is my look I enjoy it makes me feel good it, you know, it is that's important. If I feel comfortable, then I'm comfortable to do my work and. And is like my work is a separate thing. But I haven't outgoing personality, and that look just seems to fit me your career has had lots of different chapters and ups and downs are there moments when you feel like, well, these the the media the publisher the pay attention to that thing. Did that was great. What why why why did I fall off the radar? Then. No, you know, what I look at my life. I have been so fortunate until look if course you always wish you could stay on the charts. But you also know I mean, look at all the great years ahead twenty twenty five years. I mean, I was like really did. Well, and people are very kind to me and new people come along. So you have to kind of move over. But I'm still are serious about my work. And I figure of that if I continue to do good work. No matter how old I am. They will eventually pick it up and play some of it at least here and there now, and then, but as I've often said, I'll make my records, even if I have cell mouth Trumka car. And it must be kind of freeing to be able to go and make a couple of bluegrass records that don't have to sell a million copies or make these, you know, sixty songs don't have to sell a million songs to your Nashville audience. It's true. And I'm getting a lot out of that. Because now I make jokes about it. Now said it before that I've finally got ridge of to saying like pour gin and be able to Ford it because our little label. I record all these things I've paid for them. I'll lease them, you know, to label to distribute them, but I'll on them, they go back into my family's phone, you know, to my estate, and so I'm joined doing things like this particular album of songs. I love people. I want my fans to note, the kind of stuff that also lied not just that I wrote or you know, so I'm really enjoying doing the bluegrass things do in the mountain songs 'cause that's stuff. I love if I could have made a living doing the head in the early days out of probably just done that tops of some not any for the money now. Used to be for the minor because need to make living. But now been fortunate have dollywood and a lot of the business things. But still my music is my first love it was a song that brought me out mountains song that built dollywood. It was a song that has done everything. Either one. I wrote a one I've sung are one or both. So I'll never give up on the love from a music, and I will continue to do it from now on. Very much for joining me in studio. Three sixty today. Thank you as always good to see you. Dolly Parton latest album is the soundtrack for the new movie dumpling. Brazen. Cushioned seats and saw. In my fevered movie. Stuck my dream as? School. Silverscreen pig. Jimmy. Studio three sixty. We're always on the hunt for stories of people whose lives were changed by some work of art or entertainment, anything cultural. We collect them in our series called a Hamam. It's such as this story that we got from remember our theme Willie Nelson. And habit there for churches, and I live within a hundred yards three of them. There was a tabernacle was close from this where we setting to right out there where every summer I could sit there and hear every denomination in town come do their revival meetings where they come and sync Ospel in the guy would preach every night. So I got preached to every denomination every summer, and so I grew up in all that kind of stuff, and it was really great on Sunday that would be early morning Sunday. And then at noon, sometimes we'd have all day singing dinner on the grounds. Thanks all day church on Sunday. And then Monday night. I was prayer meeting night. Wednesday was visitation where you go around and visit people and try to get them to come to church. And then the thing is Sunday against the whole week was pretty much pit and. In charge. A preacher there now. But he used to tell me that the first song he ever remembered me singing. And that was when I had been six seven years old was amazing grace. I really don't know. Why I started saying I love the so I would say every night because enjoy saying the people enjoy here it is. And I let him sing in the enjoy seeing you know loud and saying there's something good about it. I'm sure it's a combination of all things say on the words feeling the music. The melody has the universal appeal love that melody. Great. How sweet he Lisa. That's see. Rich lie me. Wants lost. Now. But now. Well, want to start traveling usually played Saturday nights in a way to get up and find a church, I really believe that we walk around in our church every day. Anyway, it's not a building. You don't really have to go to the same one ever Sunday morning. Honestly, I think I say it will cause it feels good to sing. And they audience likes to sing to the fact that is a religious song is just kind of secondary take. Just one of those magic song. Once you. You don't have to be a Christian. You don't have to be anything like that. So. For b. See? The great and wonderful Willie Nelson. That story was produced by Michael may Willie Nelson now age eighty five is onto or across the country, and you can find out where and win through studio. Three sixty dot org. Chance. Do you have an a ha moment? Thumb song or novel or video game, or whatever that changed your life trajectory or your way of looking at existence. If so tell us about it in an Email or voice memo and send that to incoming at studio three sixty dot org. Next up Dwight yoakam and his band are gonna play a few songs. Three. Hi, this is Dwight yoakam. You're listening to studio. Three sixty from PRI. Stay with us. Stay with us. Stay with us. Now I've flown. The let me do it. Again. I figured out. Three-man? Three. Studio three sixty. Today on studio three sixty we're all about country music and talking to some genuine legends as far as country superstars go. Do. Yoakum was always one that doesn't fit that. Cool mischievous mysterious dude amid the interchangeable guys and girls next door he settled in Los Angeles instead of Nashville, he always played and collaborator with rock-n-rollers, and by modern mainstream countries standards. Dwight yoakam version of the music is unorthodox because it's what used to be orthodox. I spoke with yokum in two thousand thirteen he just released his first album of new songs in seven years and like so much in his career. It was full of surprises including two songs produced by back and the album's. Name three pairs is a reference to John Lennon who was once. Famously photograph wearing three pairs of sunglasses. Not the wire rim ones. This is footage from the documentary, the material world living material, of course, AC pairs, and they cut to Lenin. Lenin was in full kind of pop mod revolver period wardrobe with these big rapper and not the later shot and everybody's familiar with. He's wearing kind of seventies wire rim glasses. These are these huge kind of movie star frames any had three stacked on top. And he was looking at various angles to the cameraman going is she you here. They are John three pairs of glasses. And I started just repeat that loan three pays glasses and got up. And I wrote it as I walked cross the album seems particularly less straight ahead country than some of your other albums for most of these songs, the first few bars, you can listen to you. You don't think that doesn't sound like a country song yet was that an effort with this project from the beginning? Now, it's just an expression the music I hear going on my head and wanted to play the first three albums to me were explaining why I was who I was where I came born in Appalachia and move Kentucky, by the way, you've been the final in the coldness not in business writing about the Hatfield mccoys that would be that business there too. Yeah. The Hatfield mccoys were phenomenon of pike county and Logan county West Virginia across the board. Yup. Worth. And there's a great reference that whole subculture there in outliers. Malcolm, clad wells, right book, and. The observations they may really interesting about that being born really begat from the culture of non agrarian geographic locations where you had to engage in hurting livestock as your means of existence, and it gave forth two feuding cultures because tolerance for any kind of cross eyed looks gosh man, can't really steal your field of we'd overnight. But he can sure take a lot of sheep cattle. But there's on this record. There are also in addition to these sort of rock and roll songs there are some open emotional balance. Yeah. There's a piano ballad. I you know, I didn't go into this. This is purely I feel free of John rebounds. I I don't think musicians think of themselves as limited by categorization a lot of good musicians. Don't it's just my version of these songs. Let's hear one okay? I feel self conscious myself with my rambling tangents have already left us somewhere discussing too much information feuding cultures in the southeast. It's good. I like it. I like it. But that has everything to do with heart like mine, actually, naked be seem for the Hatfield mccoys of moisture. So you Kim. Lorde? The holler. Anyway, here we go. That was Dwight yoakam in his band performing a heart like mine from his new album three pairs love that thank you. And that you that was one of the songs you did with your your man back who also a non respect my main back Niagara specter of genre boundaries. No. He's completely free of intended anything that would be limiting anyway, you know, an great thing back. He's extremely literate musically. But he is wildly sensitive to nine interfering with anything. It's intuitive. How did you come to work with him? We'd bumped in each other over the years at the vent, and I just cold called him. And so he came by my office. We sat down for about four hours and talked about LA in the end. There's when you mentioned that musical direction LA in California a lot to do with. Obviously to because there's always been a great co mingling going back even to the thirties dust bowl collision of culture that happened. When all those oak came out. Texans is it's blue into California created a culture that certainly the hybrid forms of country music became the flying. Burrito. Brothers are the birds to me that's the first country rock band sweethearts. When you're young you had an eighty seven called hillbilly deluxe. Let's play a track from that reading, right. Route twenty three. Kids. Do. That whole. Those little kids. Now, you were a southern California by the time you recorded that. What is it? It's when you removed from the environment, right? That you write about. To celebrate something living to articulate more cute Lee. What you what you came from? I realized how fortunate I was to have been born into that culture rural Appalachia and the uniqueness of it was much more cute living a couple, but the time I'd been in southern California for a couple of years working on loading dock and driving liver trucks. I, you know, had a lot of time to kind of contemplate where I'd come from. What that was all about, you know, the hollers in the hills in the sixties fifties and sixties the migration out of there was to get jobs in Detroit route Twenty-three literally as the US route gay rental the way down through the Appalachian chain and into Florida, but all the way to Detroit the brunt of the joke was where the three RS that are taught in Kentucky schools reading writing around twenty three hundred. So I thought I'm gonna turn that joke on its here from a mother, and my uncles and everybody that severed greater consequences of that kind of cultural bigotry can we hear another new song? Sure, what is your what should we do guys title song? Yes, why not do the title song? Three. Three. Shoot. Three. Three. That. Won't be. Thing. Shoot. That is Dwight yoakam and his band performing live the title track of his new album three pairs here in studio three sixty the title track. You know, the reason it became so evident that it was the title of the albums because it's about the nonsense of joy joys what they album was about for for me. I hope for the band and all of that made it in. I experienced great in performing you have been a joyful presence here today. Well, thank you. We're not gonna have to wait another seven years to get another album new songs. I hope not. But I don't know. I can't make no promises fell Accu sitting in a room. Locked this time like this. I don't know what I'll be doing. Well, we didn't have to wait seven years. Dwight yoakam has released two albums since then most recently one with the title from a certain seven year old sitcom theme song swimming pools movie stars and Dwight yoakam to is currently on tour all over America. What Yocum and I talked a little while longer. Actually, quite a lot longer. I asked him about his crossover success, and he wound up telling me a story about this one while night at one of his shows involving flying bulls of beer and punk rock kid and somersaulting security guards. I highly recommend listening which you can do at studio three sixty dot org. Where you can also watch video of Dwight performing here in studio. Three sixteen. And that's it for this episode. Before we go. I wanted to remind you that you can follow us on Twitter and thereby be among the first to know what we're working on and thinking about over here, and where you can tweet at us when we make you feel feelings as listener Brian McDaniel did tweeting us about our recent segment concerning the nineties Nickelodeon animated series, Doug sobbing, Brian wrote on Twitter studio, three sixty an episode on the greatest show of all time. Doug, and it's good. So deal through sixty is a production of PRI public radio international in association with sleet, our executive producer is Jocelyn Gonzales. Our senior editor is into Adam Newman. Our sound engineer is fan. Lopez months. Our producers are Evan chum Laurean Hanson. Sam Kim Saunders. Tommy zaria. Our production assistant is Morgan Flannery. And I'm curt Anderson, certainly, no natural beauties. Thank you very much for listening. Our public radio international lives Nui to formulate. Okay. We're gonna make generational movie about these crazy kids stay mix. Tomo studio three sixty reality bites twenty five years later, I guess like she says in the movie, I know, it wasn't good and hunger. The just something that's next on studio. Three sixty. Won't be sorry.