Leo & Randy On Accountability Peernovation-Style
Welcome to appear ovation the podcast with Leo Batori and me Randy Cantrell. Building on our previous shows, the year of the pier and what anyone can do we turn our attention to helping business leaders built a high performing teams. Talk with a diverse group of bottling who will share stories and insights that will help you and your teams achieved new heights. If you believe there is strength in numbers and that meeting the challenges of the future can only be achieved if we together then join us for the conversation. Welcome back another episode appearing ovation the PODCAST and I'm pack after what seems like a lengthy a lengthy APPs yard assignment? Yeah. It's good to be back. Website is here no Vatian Dot Co he is Leo Batori I'm Randy Cantrell and we welcome the audience I can. We've got a number of I don't know just a hodgepodge of things but the highlights are gonna be the. Forthcoming Book Call Ovation as well as an article that he wrote just recently was published in CEO World About Accountability that I think is worth of a bit of a deeper dive for our audience. No I think it is. It's gotten some really good reaction yet by the way. Obviously at some. Awesome to have you back. That's why I think it's good just to show. So, people can get there randy time that they've been missing lately. But So. Just quickly on the book. A manuscript on submitted line at it's gone and all that we're in the process right now of interior page designs cover design. Cover copy editing me all kind of fun things. Now, that kind of create the whole package you know if you will so. Again working with our Choi Publishing, a division of Simon and Schuster and this love that team there they've been just fabulous so far and I'm sure it will continue. Now all the way through had A. Great, conversation more than marketing people yesterday but now there's a lot of moving parts a lot of things happening that as soon as I do have a date where it'd be available for preorder Amazon obviously, that's going to really be a trigger for you know a lot of things out there and dumb. You Know Amazon reviews is GonNa. Be Like the number one thing I'm going to looking at over the next two three months ago when once that bill becomes available preorder. For people to get a look at it. And You know again, it's a book that Obviously enjoyed writing the other two I think particularly proud of this one. I think there's a lot of that is. That we've all learned together. There's a lot of things you know over the past four years that have kind of culminated into something that not only. Serves to give greater insights for people who are running appeared advisory groups no matter where they are in the world but virtual or in person but also when I, think even more importantly. Things that have come out of all of that research and that I think are hugely beneficial for driving high performing teams. And in post Kobe it's You know the timing couldn't be. Could be better. I think for people who are really trying to pivot and figure this out, which is really in many respects why the accountability article? was written in kind of called up. You know when? When you think about other than having the people right and and obviously we know the pivotal. Importance of psychological safety when it comes to really great teams having a culture of accountability. To one another and or one another. Is has just right up there and show talking about that. Not, in the way we typically think of accountability. but in kind of current ovation style, accountability was kind of fun. Well. Let's contrast those two. That's a good launching point. So there is the stereotypical view of a leader. Imposing I'll use that word imposing accountability on the team or the group verses. Not, at all, how how your article and how I know you personally approach it. Well. Antelope individual members, right it. It kind of makes everybody feel like any time they go to any meeting show anything they're always playing defense. It's always about did you do this? Did you do that? Did you get this done that tone or whatever, and interestingly not so much of it is around out outcome metrics versus output right? We get so focused on. The end result with too often we don't spend the kind of time particularly when we're a team and we have opportunities to work together and collaborate in ways that could make us. More productive that we focus on what does it actually take to achieve those outcomes and how well are we doing those things together? But I have always regarded and I think in most situations you talk to employees in. That's what they will tell. You just goes like that the leaders on one side of the table on the other of the table and I'm just spending things off on implant defense all the time in terms of justifying. All of these kinds of things whatever did happen didn't happen whatever I think. This kind of speaks to a number of things in article and I'm GonNa, just Kinda take them one at a time One of them I guess is rather to think about you holding other people accountable. It's basically thinking of it in terms of I'm accepting personal responsibility for the role that I play on this team and with this company and. I it is up to me to bring my A. Game and I hold myself to that incredibly high standard I expect others to do the same just as they expect out of me, but but it's a different feel to it. It's much more about playing offense senators about playing defense. It's it puts me as the employees you know in real control in terms of taking pride over Maya outputs, my outcomes in my contribution to not only doing my job but helping everyone around me better. And and this is where it kinda pivots to. The leader and and I think this is the importance of being a part of the team up being apart from. oftentimes, when you talk leaders in, you ask them you part of the team or are you separate from the team and they'll oftentimes say, no, that's team there. I lead the team but that's the ten minutes are. You could look at it that way certainly but I, think what we found time and time again. In our research over the years with both groups and what? CEO's. Hot. Performing teams is that the CEO's are part of the team they absolutely consider themselves that I. It's not like like I mentioned about one person on one side of the table and one on the other where the leader up and has this philosophy that right I have one employee that I'm a hold. accountable for this goal because then if they don't get it, I have one throat to choke was literally the quote that I've heard on many occasions by the way. It doesn't exactly make me feel like all right. We're all in this together when alerts right so I think the idea of team feeling like that you are and it for one another there to support one another in for that leader by the way just to be accountable to the team and what I mean is kind of publicly stating to the team here are the expectations for myself in terms of how I want to support you all in the team members. Do the same than everyone's on a level playing field there, and they understand what it takes. To achieve the goal. Of course you know. Being on a team is more than just about. Achieving a particular goal whenever great teams have what you know we found in our research with high performing groups has really strong. Learning achieving cycles. which is how continually get better all the time right. They learned together they do it really well to give each other the courage and encourage one another act on that learning the achieve results even at this trial and error involved there in once they do it inspires more learning more growing in the. Ability the team to get just that much better over time. And again, these are things that we all do you know leader in employees like on the same side of the table as part of the same groups right. We've already chatted a little bit about, of course, measuring outputs as well as outcomes I. think that's a really key But I. Think when we think about accountability as framed much more as about personal responsibility than it is holding other people you know accountable? Like a model, sometimes of the leader and then there's the team underneath him salt these kind of old relationships that create this among the sod on your on that side of feeling. We work with Dave Logan originally initially I should say in writing the power appears and thinking about how triads. Is probably a better model where the leader, the individual team member in the team itself as an entity, each hold equal responsibility for having that culture personal responsibility slash accountability. that's designed really to make everyone better which is the why are doing there they want to produce. A common work product or achieve common goals together and do it. In the very best can't But. You know before I get into kind of the role of the leader on that Randy. How does that strike you as being in some respects different from? What you grew up with in terms of. Leadership or on the employee side of thanks. Leader. You know we're we're. We're very steeped in hierarchical kind of authority figures and I can tell you that for my very first job throughout most of my, you know early career. I the bought the boss, the boss, the boss, this in no way connected to us. Right and I grew up I grew up hearing hearing more bosses say. And if they didn't. Completely articulated this way this was the sentiment. It's my job to catch you doing something wrong. It's my job to point out your your faults and where you where you missed the mark. and IT PROB- it had a big impact on me in that I didn't follow suit with that whole autocracy I hated it and committed myself if I if I ever get the title if I ever get the authority I'm GonNa. So go the opposite direction. Which is, which is, which is what I did and. I think of all the high performing teams that I've ever not been a part of, but the ones that I have. Helped serve. In the last eleven or twelve years as coach. And none of them, none of them are by autocrats. I mean they they are all led by people who I don't know whether it's intuitively or otherwise or learned, but they just seem to be people who who believed that they are part of of the whole and. And not even the major part of the whole, but they have a pivotal role but so does everybody else And Yeah and we're GONNA put links in the show notes to the article because there's some diagrams that. Depict Leo's talking about as opposed to a hierarchy where you know these east try these triads, they just just fit together and they just move the process further along. Hoping that we're getting away from the autocrats that I grew up I'm seeing fewer and fewer of them because so many organizations just won't put up with it. Is just that lone. Wolf who thinks that they're all that and then some the thankfully I'm seeing whether it's in city government or whether it's in. Corporate were business work. I'm just not seeing that pay off. Because you can't do it all by yourself and those people don't seem to be. Capable of getting the most out of a group of individuals they I don't I don't think they're even capable of building effective teams much less leading a team to be high performing. So yeah, I I, love the I love that. I love that that triad model. Well and you know in. Fairness that there's a guy that I talked about in the upcoming book is named his Roy. Now, this was one of the early jobs I had college was supposed to take this job with pulse congress wasn't going to start for leftover. So from April to October I gotta find something right with no money no car some like a great I'll get a job at a car dealership I can make money and they give me a new car to drive as a demo right. So but anyway, it was also as it turned out one of the richest experiences I had from A-. Employees Perspective because I was in an environment where basically the sales manager there if he caught you. In a in in what he felt was fleeting moment have been activity. He literally take a phone book, control it at you and your direct. And say call twenty landscapers you know and you didn't question it you just like, okay. I. Guess. All twenty landscapes, right but that was A. That environment, it was very much. We were all told what we were supposed to do and. And we just had numbers to hit period and that was that and It was yeah. It was a very, very different now as I pointed out in the book, Roydon do that because he's bad guy he didn't do that because I mean or anything like that. That's all he knew that's all he ever really understood about what leadership is all about because it was all about the task hit the number get the task done hit the. Fact that it actually takes people for you to make that possible kind of was kind of a side thing, right? Now. You've got. You know for for some people who eventually say, no, this has to be a better way I don't think I could struggle Barbara out of here now. You know they would eventually although they were four between would find places where you had leaders recognized. At least to a greater extent how important it was to for people to develop in people to be empowered and for. People to see their role. As one where they were following the example of others around really great at their job. So you wanted to show up maybe really great at what you did as well. wasn't about people holding me accountable for that. It was I was in this environment where it's like Whoa. got to bring your a game here. You know because the expectation is that I'm here. For Reason, I'm here to make a difference not just to fulfil role, and so that creates an entirely different feel which is kind of a bit where I was getting to. You know with that the other thing you know they brought up the article two's if you think about. Okay. So what's the leader's role? In the culture of accountability and I think about it of delete or not as an enforcer right because that would put you back in that command and control type of model, right but more the backstop. You know that if you can create a culture where people recognize that their own currency in that organization is based on them, showing up and bringing their very best. every day in that the leader models that behavior by doing the same right now sudden everyone literally on the same team not people across from the table but everyone on the same side. You know working on that. When something does break down if it ever does in terms of a culture accountability, the leader is there to offer reminder I. Think for the fact that old on member how important let's make sure we stay on track and we're here as opposed to You know being the one driving it and. I think it's Really. Essential when we have that type of approach. You know we look at You know the other aspect of this too is that and. The goal right because we think about this count ability thing. Is More Getting better. Every day as opposed to hitting certain numbers. Or trying to win a championship, trying to create a AD campaign trait have rights that those become the reward for a daily effort to just get better single day we walk in the door and we continue to do that. We're GONNA. We're GONNA do that we're going to do it together and Of course you know we talked about this idea of win-lose together. It's not about a throat to choke. You know it's about. Being all and and we celebrate together. We mourn together we. Whatever happens to be, but we'RE GONNA continue to learn from one out of the to grow in. Even if we lost yesterday, we that doesn't mean we're not GonNa win tomorrow and the day after that. but Yeah it's. It's such an interesting thing. I think when you think about Leaders and how we in especially by the way when times get tough. Times of crisis when we reach management by desperation right now, all of a sudden were all about like how do we hit this that and the other thing we forget those important lessons about all be on the same team starts to become every person for himself you know And That is not particularly bright. Speak a bit to the role of a leader as it relates to this topic of accountability. And your thoughts on a leaders impact on helping people better understand and see where they fit. Well. It starts bringing the right people on the team. It's really recognizing who are the people that are going to hold themselves to a high standard that everyone else on this team does in how are they gonNA make a contribution to make a difference I think absolutely starts there You know the whole model, the whole reinforcing loop. Of the fog factor starts with having the right people in the room and I think leader has a huge responsibility in be able to identify who those people are in and what they bring to the table and what the expectations are. I WANNA be really clear on this too just because we talk about the leader in the same side of the table versus the other side of it or. Not. Holding. People Accountable finger-pointing way that doesn't make it more gentle leadership. It doesn't make you less tough for less demanding or whatever You're going to challenge your team members and you're GonNa Challenge one another and you're going to continue to be better and get better. As a result. It's just different. You know I it's a very different feel when you feel like we're all in this together versus having someone feel like wait a minute I'm not the competitor you know which would you can feel like that. You know sometimes when you've got that. Just relationship that's doing this you know So yeah. I mean, I, think that's work. That's where it starts and I think obviously modeling that becomes really important. you know being that leader who obviously is willing to hold themselves to high standards as much as they have the expectations of other people in the team that they have of one another it all has to be congress in that way can't be the leader just expecting the best out of everyone else, and then over sudden you kind of phone it in three days a week that's not gonNA. Fly. Your doctor Dr Cloud artery cloud. You know advocates for leaders in it's. I agree with him and I know you do too is. For us to show up with truth in grace. So it doesn't mean to your point. It doesn't mean that we don't have the difficult conversations. In fact, quite the contrary means you do have the difficult conversation you just you're just not showing up with a baseball bat in your hand or with your hands ready to put it around somebody's throat to your point. Yeah and and you know Jim Collins speaks to the same thing when he talks about. An iron will but at the same time just incredible humility and I think humility is probably as as much of an important word for leader as there is you know is Israeli that and and. It's interesting when you read when you read about particularly high performing athletes in a team in a team event team sport and you know their biggest moments of their life, the championships, the records, the whatever and just. How tough the leader was and yet? Bearing complete responsibility for the outcome as much as any of the star players. And you've you've used uconn women's and we've talked about various hockey Oh and condolences to your bruins by the way for being eliminated last. Nine. Celtics during ALGA. Dallas Stars. Didn't do too well, last night they had the opportunity close it out and completely laid an egg. But you you look at those kinds of stories in being a person who's never played anything at that level. But I've done a fair amount of sports coaching and I, get it I mean there there is a toughness. That does have truth and grace is Dr. Cloud says a compassion and there's a there's just there's a love for these people. To do their very best. And perform at a at a level. I'm speculating that the Dallas Stars you know they came out guns a blazing two nights ago, and then last night looked like a completely different team and. They've got an interim coach and I can almost guarantee you know the conversation. You know this is a guy who fills the burden of leadership. To help these these guys perform at their very best last night. They didn't. You can listen to his press conference and you can tell this is got he's definitely on the same side of the table as the players is really the point. And you know the other thing is great. Players love to be coached. Great players love to be challenged and It's really all about getting better which is kind of again it really always goes back to who the right people for this team right one of the things that make the difference between someone who makes it on this team and someone who doesn't despite what could be a great resume or someone who doesn't mazing interviews all that do they would've takes to be successful here and those are really important questions once we get a better feel for what that looks like in our organization, you know because we know that when a leader tolerates subpar employ. in in most cases, the employees I'm looking at that really like that about, and then when they finally let them go in the league thanks Charlotte at someone's GonNa like well, yeah they're pretty nice person and everything but God how did not happen six months? Is really kind of thing when it comes to. And the expectation is that anyone you're going to add to this change or anyone who's going to replace someone in this team has got to be. Playing at a high level and willing to do. You know what it takes to. Just have a passion around. What they do you know and I think. People who do work hard at it and they work hard to be better they work hard to be great individual contributors and mostly Really add this to you've got to have people that aren't just strong individual performances to aimed at setting good goals for themselves but also who care about one another who care about making everyone around them better. Because that way when I'm challenged by a CO worker questioned by a CO worker about something I've already expressed that I wanted for myself over the team. I see that as A. Supporting one another helping one, another not calling somebody out. so Gone, I think when? It's clear. Why were there and evaluate importance of caring for one another and a commitment to just getting better all the time I'm just really what it's all about. Well, and I think to your point is we kind around the the quarter pole to to the finish line here for the? I. Think. The team itself I mean, there's an accountability I don't think it ends up just being completely owned the leader, the sole leader, the team itself, every high performing team that I know of there has been this whole group of. You know of people stepping up before the person in charge of the person with Tyler Authority can even say anything them holding one another accountable, which is a powerful. Powerful thing. Absolutely we've and we've talked about that as you mentioned with there isn't any great sports team who will tell you that you think the coaches tough on the players you should see how the players are with one another. But again, not in a way that puts people in the defense. Been in a way that brings out the best in everyone around them and I think that is. Essential and kind of what it's all about and. Know Hope I think especially, I think as we are. Now in in virtual teams right now, we talked about this a little bit in advance. The caution. I, real. I would have for CEO's out there who are really. Getting a little bit like, okay. These teams have been working remotely a longtime now. Yes. Some early results I think a lot of teams have been particularly positive people stepped up people have shown. That they can do great work can be trusted in endure everything from home but I think the longer that goes on the more nervous some people start to get I. Think there's a real tendency to say, okay we're going to impose all kinds of new accountability pieces because boy we're GonNa make sure everyone's doing what they're doing. I think that the likelihood. That that would be. Have the opposite effect of what you're doing acres. You're going to engage them activities that aren't really be about their work. It's going to be about just showing. Their work and and it's going to basically send that not so subtle message that they don't really trust me. You know here I've been doing all this work working to death now les Rita Four Months. Numbers are up. Things are good. Now the sudden accountability expectations and measures and things for me from a reporting standpoint and everything just went up. You know twenty, five, percent, fifty percent. In. I, I would really be. You know trying to swim at the current on this one. You know for a while I mean pay attention to. Trying to really create the culture that we've kind of talked about, which is kind of this. Nation style accountability, and. And I think. That's a better. We gotTA manage our restlessness for sure I'm syncing. Yep Restlessness to your point of wanting to. Thinking that you need to frankly that you need to do more than you need to do you need up things so Exactly go hey, it's been Randy. Good to have you on back excited for we've got some upcoming shows with some. Fun Guests for September. So it'll be a really good thing and We'll give you the last word here as we head out. I'm really I'm really excited about the Book Leo Sent Me. Kind of the final. The final version, Su Just. Start reading. So I'm really excited for the book I feel like it's GonNa take this whole conversation. The, next level to beg a trite phrase. for for us to just lean on each other me the tagline is still. Is still very powerful. You know that the power of of we begins with me. and. That really is what this conversation is all about. We like for you to join the conversation you can. You can ping us on social media. All of the links to our social media profiles are on every episode show notes. So we'll post that you can find it at Leo Atari that's Elliott Ot, a R Y DOT COM. Ovation dot co get you to the exact same place. We encourage you to subscribe to the podcast. If you're doing that already, we thank you and you can watch the youtube videos. So the PODCAST is available. If you don't know those be there listening on audio, you can catch the video at our website or at the Youtube Channel. There are links to all that you can find everything print ovation, dot go we appreciate you everybody have a good one. Thank you you. Thank you for joining us to subscribe to the podcast and learn more about how you can engage peer invasion for your organization contact this on the website at pier notation dot. Until next week, remember the power of Weei and again with you.