Ep. 221 - Codependency, Addiction + Conscious Uncoupling with Danika Brysha and Billy Haley
Make sure you have a strong enough own Dacian in your own desires to come back yourself. No matter what information comes in Hugh, and make a judgment call based on what you really what feels right to you. Because if I had followed the should in my life that all the things I thought I should do, I would never have this incredible man. He has grown me in ways that I can't even articulate. You're listening to the almost thirty podcast hosted by Christopher Williams and Lindsay Simsek almost thirty started as a conversation about the transition from our twenties toward thirties. But then we realized life is full of transitions. So be expanded our mission. We are an intuition, led wellness focused lifestyle podcast, that promises to deliver authentic conversations diverse points of view. An insights rooted in optimism, growth and intention. The almost thirty nation community is a group of purposeful dreamers who are smart passionate, and always seeking the full potential in every aspect of their lives had almost thirty were making magic together. We dream it, and then we do it, thanks so much for tuning into the almost thirty podcast. Here we go. What's up guys? Welcome back to almost thirty podcast. I'm so glad you're here too. So glad I'm Lindsay Simsek keeping the lights on this is Krista Williams. And we are best friends and also business partners and started the business at the same time that we were starting our friendship, which was awesome. But we started this podcast when we were transitioning from her twenties, our thirties, and it's just become so much more than that. We realized everyone's going there, some sort of transition. So we wanted to have insightful funny. Honest conversations between each other with you all, and with guests that we bring on the podcast, about everything from health, amongst spirituality, sexuality culture, relationships entrepreneurship, all the things they're really smart and they're really fucking funny. Weird that you guys missed that part of the entropy to. Yeah. I liked it vibes. I thought that we had to, I don't know not mature, but be more inclusive of the impacted the community. That was really my are totally are the impetus for the change. So we had an old intro, which was bomb in, which is the intro now for a bunch of their podcasts because they took our took intro and change word. She enjoys like just one word we speech. I suppose truly twenty nineteen so we evolved our intro, and we just wanted to make sure that we captured the most important part of this podcast, which is the community and the people that listen and the Facebook group, and our Instagram, family, and the people that we meet on tour and the people that are meeting without us, and the people that are doing good things in the name of the almost thirty brand. Yeah, it's, it's didn't ask. That's why it's changed everything for us truly and we are actually on tour. Now we are on tour all year. Beer. London, and we're off to Denver at the end of may, we will be in San Francisco in July. And then the fall is quite fall, and winter quite be a marathon of cities. We are so excited to visit so like Chicago. Nashville, Ohio Washington DC Philly Miami back to LA things. And as a highlight said the Denver event happening on may thirtieth is with Natalie miles that is going to be about tapping into your intuition. It is at a beautiful space called green spaces in Denver that will sell out, and we look forward to seeing you there. And then in following that we have an event on June twentieth in LA with Brima Lanson breath work class, if you guys have never tried breath work with this is great for you. If you are a veteran this is great for you. We are hosting that we work in Culver city, and then the one in July is with Lacey Phillips. So if you have been impacted by the lacy Phillips podcasts that we have done with her. We have three. They've been one of our most popular. Podcast and the work that she has done in the manifestation space with to be magnetic is so impactful. So we're doing a live show with her in July in San Francisco on the twenty seventh and we would love to see their tickets are available on our website and then right after that or before that actually is our retreat that is the highlight right now. We have a retreat happening on the ninth through the twelfth of July at Kalemie ghost ranch in Malibu, which is restoration, hardware meets Malibu. Chic, it is the most beautiful place I've ever been. There are trees. There are pools there. Everything you need to take the best Instagram, but also to deacon act if that is what she want me are going to be doing reiki healing sound baths, astrology, readings workout classes connection, relationship courses, and workshops and all of the things, it's basically everything that mean Lindsey love about retreats and events that we attend all combined into one in inviting our favorite people to speak. Yeah. Exactly. And we've experienced so much L A and Mets. So many incredible practitioners. Healers fitness experts, all the things that we wanted to invite them and create this experience for you, that we've been, you know, immersed in for quite some time now, since living in L A, and we just can't wait to spend time with you. So it'll be an intimate beautiful nourishing retreat that we hope you can come to. So spots for that are available now on our website. So take a look and almost thirty podcasts dot com under be main menu. Just click on retreat to us nineteen. Yeah. I wanted to talk about this because I was listening to today. So I took a walk today in the park, and I listened to ritual which I haven't rituals, one of my oh, jeez. The rich podcast when I first started listening to podcast years and years ago, he was one of my first and I really admire his how humble he is his vocabulary the diversity of his guests today. He had on a woman named Lisa day more. So it's D A M O U R. She's a PHD and she actually studies. Teenage children's have teenage girls and teenage boys. And what I really loved is the conversation around, how to be a better parent to those teenage girls and boys, especially in the day of social media in the day of phones in the day of things that are going on in the world that, you know, we didn't experience related to bullying and all of these things. And she was talking about something that was really interesting related to girls and boys when they're growing up that biologically there is no difference between, you know, males and females in the sense that when teenage girls, go to high school, and they develop these deep relationships with other females that are very open and conversation airy, and you're sharing all these things, you know, in high school and middle school. You probably had really deep relationships where you told them everything. Whereas men in this case, don't necessarily turn to other men. They more turn to distract. So the women seek community with other women. And in this case, they may get hurt you know, it may be hard because they're experiencing drama because they've shared things because they've gotten deep but men on the other hand seek to distract. So that is why they're playing video games. You know, they may go to pornography. They may go to isolation but it just really spoke to the fact that all of these things that an idea all of these ideas that we have related to teenage boys and teenage girls are all socialized, so we could socialize men on the other hand to be more open to be more vulnerable to communicate more to lean on other men, their age more. And then on the other hand, we could communicate to women to be more independent, you know, be more free thinking all of these things, but it really struck me because the relationship of women or the win. Women in seventh and eighth grade. And even in high school, it is such a pivotal time for those deep friendships, and how you can get really hurt by them, you know, 'cause you are exposing yourself, so much in sharing so much, and I do remember, never seeing men on the other hand really having those deep friendships. You know, I definitely think that they had super deep meaningful friendships that still stand today. Most of the men that I've dated in my life, have had very long standing friendships since high school in middle school, and all this, those things, but never felt like as deep as the ones that the women were having, and it was nice to really hear that brought to light and discussed. Yeah, well, it's interesting to think about like how that time is so pivotal. And, you know, if it goes awry at one point, or another, like, how, like for me, I sought refuge in the, the way in which boys kind of didn't have those deep to good relationships because, you know, then I wouldn't get hurt you know, like it was then. Yeah. It was it was interesting. Because now I'm having to do some reprogramming around like how I show up to friendships because for me, I yes, I had I have an had some incredibly deep beautiful friendships. But I do think that time in middle school early high school was like a bit fucked up, and like kind of trained me to not go as deep or show up fully because of the hurt that I did that. And then there is hurt their and then now I feel unsafe to do that. So that's still in my body, and I'm kind of trying to, you know, re sensitize myself to all of that. But that's so interesting. Yeah, I think about lake how our schools playing a part in that, like our schools, creating an environment where, you know, instead of fucking free period, or whatever the hell or like some weird class like maybe it's like a share. Airing circle. Maybe it's like almost almost like therapy like group therapy in school. You know, I don't know if that's legal. But, like, just like creating an environment where both men and women feel like fake. I would assume it would have to be separated. So females are with females males with males but like where they can feel comfortable enough to share and hopefully that would translate at home. They would share more at home, and hopefully that would translate into the next relationship, they hod, and so on, and so forth. But yeah, I think there's a responsibility in the schools, if that's where they are for a majority of the time. Yeah. And it was interesting too, because a lot of the data speaks to the fact that this is the best behaved generation yet, so less kids are getting in trouble less. Kids are having sex less kids are doing drugs, less kids are binge drinking, which is interesting because it speaks a lot to, you know, the media's perception of things. And I remember when we were in Costa Rica. They talked about that. How this day and age is less violent. There's less war. There's less death due to sickness. So there's less of these things happening. But if you turn on the media, and you are part of the media cycle, you may not believe that new Nazi, that, so it was interesting, too, because a lot of that is attributed to technology and cell phone use, so on the one hand where technology has provided you know, a disconnection toddlers to community to your body, all of these things that, you know, we very well know or negative the impacts the social media are mostly negative on growing children are growing boys and girls. But there is a lot of it that speaks to the fact that it is positive. You know, if teens are having less unsafe or on sex in that way. It's interesting or doing less binge drinking or doing less, you know, opioids or different types of drugs. So. It's just such a fine line. But that podcast was really good. It was on ritual and it was interesting to hear her talk about how to have these conversations with their kids and a lot of it is the demonstration. And a lot of it is the vulnerability in the clarity around while you're doing what you're doing. And the one thing she did say is stink. Consistent is staying consistent with your messaging staying consistent with your values stink consistent with your methods of punishment. Yeah. Know in quotes, whatever that is. But it just reminded me again, that I have such hope in the next generation, I have such hope that the growing consciousness that were all seeing, you know, really is magnified with them and what they're doing. And that we now have the tools and the ability to kind of see over time how these trends with boys and girls work, and then maybe to work against them so that they can have a better chance. You know, maybe them we did, and maybe definitely went our parents did. And the parents. Sure. Yeah. And I have hoped for, like our generation becoming parents, like if we're lucky enough to become parents and to be able to be as honest in our processes, and also as consistent in our, in our ways in which we teach, as you know, as best we can. Yeah. The consistency is an interesting thing because I can imagine that kids, you know, are always thinking we'll why because as as little little toddlers, the question was, but why, but why, but why and that just like translates, as you get older, and they're kind of trying to track like, but that doesn't make sense like the inconsistency, confuses them frustrates them. And then they act out. So whether it's lying or, you know, doing whatever it's an interesting thing to track. But if you're just honest with them, they understand exactly why are doing this, you know, in response to what they did, then they can just connect the dots a bit easier and get less frustrated because sometimes they don't know why they're frustrated. They just know that like this is making sense. You know, I must be stupid, and then they revert to whatever behavior, but I think that's a really good point. And I think you don't want to stop the but y you know, I say hopefully, thought whites everything today, totally and that's one of my, you know, one of my favorite things about living, but it's a conversation, it's like why an you tell them why? And you told them it's not like, don't ask me. Why just do it? It's but why tell them? Yeah. You know. Yep. Totally so that one was good ritual. You can listen to that. Maybe we'll have around the podcast, just because I really, you know, and that's something I don't think about, you know, I don't have kids right now. I don't have a teenager, but I just like to learn about everything like that because it does also help you understand yourself. Yeah. Of course. And that's the goal for most people understand themselves. So in these conversations about parenting, about raising kids about raising teenagers as you're listening, and you're female, you probably have been a teenager once. So it helps you understand a lot about what you were doing better. Yeah. And the there's a still. L a teenager inside of you like I sure. Yeah. Pissed just prey. Oh, she's listening to labral Levin, and she's in her granite or pillow. Honestly phone is hurting her ear. Oh my God. Remember those days? Your boyfriend on the phone, you believe they're crying or laughing and then you just like fall asleep and it'd be like beep. Beep. Let me switch gears needs to have the cell phones from limited though, like see through. Oh, jesus. Yeah. Because we're sick so many I am the blow up chairs and like everything was see through everything was see through with glitter totally like. All right. My mom's lagging sure this is ugly. But sure. Yeah. But same with, you know, the conversation, we have, you know, today for you all with Denic Brayshaw. And Billy Haley makes me think about that too, where, you know, this might not apply directly to you. But the way in which, you know, they have found the honesty and the relationship ways to create space, in the relationship, you know, even the infidelity part, just thinking more about, you know, the gut instincts, that danika had around that behavior. I do think there's going to be things that all of you can take away. Yeah. It was it's really beautiful. You know, and I feel really thankful that Dannon chose almost thirty to be the first place that she is having the open conversation about her relationship with Billy and the status that they have. Now, if you guys remember when we first talked to her, she wasn't with him. So if you go back very far she wasn't with him. But in between that time she did a tour of the United States to sixty six stops for her brunch. Sear. Series and within that her, and Billy had an RV. They cooked all these beautiful homes. They helped women with their self care routines. They grew very close. They fell in love at the end of it. You know, they decided to do conscious uncoupling and to take a break and within that time, you know, things changed. And Billy had issues with relapse. He's been a very open and honest, addict throughout their entire relationship and even at the beginning and through the brunch series tour. So he had issues with that at the end, and they are able to continue on their relationship in the way that works for them in an open way where they are communicating very, honestly where they are not hiding anything where they are still in each other's lives, and they're still supporting each other and seeing each other grow, and it is an amazing thing. So this conversation happens during the process. This is at the end this isn't a happy ending. This isn't a sad ending. It is during in the middle of a process. So if you're in. Ship. If you're with someone who's not if you're in a situation where you love someone, but you don't know if it's best to be together, and you're trying to explore it or you're in love with someone. And you think it's best to be together. But you just don't know how this conversation's perfect for you. If you are identical Brayshaw fan, this conversation is extra perfect for you. We are huge fans of hers. And we are happy to have this honest, and raw conversation with her and Billy and share with you. Yeah. Totally there was also a piece that was intriguing to me, because, anytime things happen within a romantic relationship. You know, there is repercussions with family and friends as to like, maybe judgment. They care about you. So it just kind of adds a layer of, like, you know, discomfort, or something, you have to think about, you know. So that was really interesting to talk to her about, but yeah, and I just think of this, as, you know, your relationships in your life are one of the biggest pieces of yourself care. So creating the boundaries in relationship. Really having that open and honest communication with that person. And it does affect your health, you know, like overall it definitely affects your health. So this is something that I think is really important for all of you to hear it's in real time and super super honest enroll. So thank you, again, to Denka and Billy for being so honest, and sharing your story and we love you. So listen to this episode if you love it, it resonates with you, or if you want to share it with someone you can share on Instagram, Texas to a friend. Whatever it is. We always appreciate it, and turn the secret Facebook group. We'll talk more about it in there. On tour way love you. I love you. Enjoy. So did you start for did you guys meet? And then you guys were like let's do tour, a definitely swipe right? But he. But he. Did you guys met and then you're like let's go on a tour or did you say, I want to go there, and then you tender? And I said, let's go into tour. No. Do you want to go get it? Okay. So. We met on Tinder in November. I remember seen this lifetime. Yeah. Yes. Let's beat I was living in my parent's garage. Billy was in sober living. A lot going for us at the time data over living. Yeah. I mean it's not recommended because you should focus on yourself there here we are. The window for her with anyone. Oh, that's nice. Okay. So yeah, we, we were dating for quite some time. And Billy's been a chef for fifteen years and thought and I have used a lot of self care tools to transform my life, manifesting, and all that sort of stuff. And I thought I really wanted to share that with people. And so we thought, well, we'd love the idea of working together, and having sort of a little more freedom to our work life, rather Billy working at a restaurant and crazy hours or what up, you know. And just so we decided to put a little event together and hosted in our yard and in all fairness, like I, I watched her like cultivate, this idea over three days on a weekend, a little computer and she just visualize from start to finish and we walked into the weekend just kind of like oh, let's have a good weekend together and we walked out with a tour. And she did this all on three days start to finish in conceptualize it in put it all together. And it was like it's pretty amazing to see somebody like big picture, I meant go get it. Sure it was. Yeah. So we just we did a few events in January at our will the first one sold out in, like six hours that was in. Yes. We did him in southern California. We did three in January six and February five in March, and we saw a lot of people flying out or driving out every month for the events. And we had thought about more of like a minimalistic nomadic lifestyle. And thought we wanted to give it a try. And so it was going to be a two month tour. And we put something out to see if people wanted to host one of our events at their home, and we had one hundred sixty people to them at their homes. We were like, oh, okay. Cool. Wow. You guys getting ideas for venue tour. Then it's pressure. And then I come to their house, and I'm like can we turn up the lights a little bit? And can we put onto diffuser and can we Frankenheimer flowers over here? This is my house. If we bring our two hundred and twenty pound dog. Yeah. Cody, but so we, we were just blown away by with the amount of people who were generous enough to welcome us for something like that. And we plotted at all out and realize that if we were going to do a tour with any sense of self care and wellness that it was going to be a lot longer than two months, ended up being eight and a half months. Total in twenty eighteen we did sixty six events. I can't believe. On that. Yeah. Like do do a couple event. So sixty six cities, sixty six events videos were one events as we do too. So, like a bigger city, we'd do Saturday Sunday. How would you so you, you had an RV? We didn't start with an RV no. And, and I can quit material. It was way too. Heavy from Jeep didn't do that kind of racist. Stay in hotels, Airbnb. Okay. It's hard to find what the two hundred and twenty pound dog. Wow. I haven't even thought about that. Yeah. And, and we stayed, and then eventually we, we just got tired of moving our stuff, not just in and out of people's houses for these events and out of different Airbnb is all the time. It was just the, the level of grounded. Nece was. We had a sense of a home, you know, like our little spot. We always had to set up our spot in somebody else's place, and then break it down clean it up. And then dope, packing event set up an event break and nothing was hours. And that's not to have a sense of home for like someone in recovery. Was that nomadic lifestyle helpful for you to be so busy to be so on the go, or was it like stressful where you are, like, what was that? Like for you. Mentally. I mean, the the place I was in, like I made danika Emma higher power. Right. So she keeping her and what she wanted to do in her life in that spot secured my my safety, like my my security. My everything was her all of a sudden, and I thought that was okay. And so, I mean it was hard, you, you go from being super connected Roman, the have accountability, and you have a circle and you have this process and you have a routine, and then just to essentially, I gotta resentment, and then I said, you know, screw it. I'm going to go with her. And she became a higher power into the so she was my program. What's the resentment? Resentment. I don't know how to really define it other than like I'm upset or angry at somebody for something, you know. So I said, you know, scream out in never having to look at myself for that, you know, it's your fault not mine. Right. And escape. Yeah. Resentment. How did that feel for you? Did you feel that he kind of put you there as that higher power? So all of this, we've mentioned moved into the an RV we've got an RV, and then we spent the, the next seven months living in RV together, which we actually loved. I mean, I think we do really well close to each other, a lot of realizations about our dynamic, and the codependency coming from both sides, and all that came from these last few months since we've been back mentor. So, I don't think at the time I realized that I was just like dude, this guy is all about serving me across the board. And he is just like what, you know, you see him as this man and man, who is so helpful, and so caring and loving and vulnerable, and, you know, for me the damn I've never been in a super serious relationship before. And so I didn't know any different. So the way that he served me, I thought that was just like a really beautiful partnership. And for me as an entrepreneur, I thought, okay? This is like that foulland. You know what I mean? It's, it's. You need. Sometimes you need it. And Billy doesn't always say is Billy took on the role of doing so many of the thankless things that I got a lot of credit for. And so I'm on the front people. See, oh, you're doing all of these things, but they didn't see necessarily how he holds me emotionally every single night when I'm stressed out are burnt out Orie, does the dishes and takes care of the dog in cleans, you know, even. Yes. So. I didn't realize until probably after a billion tell you kind of a little more of this how we got where we are now in as it relates to him. But I didn't realize until we both sort of jumped back into recovery, and back into these conscious conversations when we got back from the tour and life, she actually made space thing rather than being in the hamster wheel of time when you're busy all this time, there's no reflection. There's no pause. There's no introspection you're just doing doing doing. And there's no space for being not this kind of what the tour was. So I think things had we've been going slower, maybe we could have slowed down and realize that things were maybe a little stickier or not so consistent or routines were suffering. But we didn't realize until we got back. You don't know what, you know, your, your normal is your normal until gift to remove yourself from that, and go. Oh, that's why. No, I get it now. But you know it takes a lot. Yeah. What was the co-dependency? Like where did you? Discover that. That's what that was an can you? Fine it for audience. Well, do you want to share sort of this path of? Well, I guess, with code. It's pretty new like, honestly the last couple of months is just when we started looking back at everything going. Oh, now this makes sense you know, I was kinda wasn't forced to get sober again. But I definitely relapse when I first met danika briefly in the net through the tour like that was, you know, every now and again, and it just grew. I'm an addict. So it makes me feel better. It makes me not feel I want more of it, and different made those mistakes. But a lot of the behavior in our relationship came from my addiction. And then her are dynamics were shaped by that. Right. And so everything I was doing was don't look at the real me. I don't wanna lose you because if you see the real may, you're gonna leave, right. And so here let me put this on. But now and that's that's the hard part. And then, so she got used to that dynamic. This is how we were right? I was this way. She was this way. And then coming back in, you know, a couple months, clean sober. We're talking about a relationship, and it's different. What do you mean? It's different you. I'm used to you being like this semester. You give me this used to give me. Well, that's not healthy for me. Right. So what is that? And then we had to look at this is where we co dependent. What's going on our dynamic had totally shifted, because a healthy version of me puts me I you know, without me being put I, I don't get her, but we can interact the same way because a lot of that dynamic is, is co dependence, depend, I depend on her to feel okay inside. She depends on me to feel okay inside. And that's not healthy, right? Anything you need on the outside of you to be put inside to feel K. That's not okay. You know. So this board codependency became it's totally new for me. Because in my head, I'm like, I'm a financial independent business woman. And and and you know what? What kind of happens over the course of the two, you know, we've been together now two and a half years right off the bat. Billy said this is me and that was the thing that I was so attracted he said, I'm you know, I'm in recovery. I'm a drug addict. I'm in this in this in this, I've had these felonies. I've had he shared all of himself and for me that was the most attractive thing to see a man be vulnerable. This man be honest and, and we built a trust. And so over the course of our relationship, there were a couple slip-ups where, you know, he smoked pot. Right. Or and head bowed or something. Or there was some, you know, just just couple of these different kinds of ups and trust started getting diluted because I lost my trust then. Okay. And then I lost my trust again, and our trust dot lower and lower and lower until it kind of created a really unhealthy balanced, so by the end of the tour because my gut instincts were going off all the time and it doesn't mean they were right every single time but were a lot. But it really did a number on our trust. And we just finally were like we need space. We, we need some space and went to Mexico and it just ended up being Mike. No, the phone true. Classic. One where they sell drugs over the counter. Yeah. So anyway, you know, we've been navigating this may live pretty publicly. We've been in the public eye, and it's just one of those things that you can't you have to give yourself space and it's changed a lot of dynamics for that piece of I know for me for my career, but it's been one of those beautiful things. So the trust sort of went away, and eventually, we got back, and it came home, this kind of head where he was like, I'm detoxing. And I was under the impression that he was detoxing from, like, not hard drugs. I didn't know until four month three months ago that he had actually relapsed on heroin and. Yeah, that's always been opiates for me. I drink a long time that, that was the thing for me that a lobby not to feel. Never go back. What's hard because I think it's true. I think a lot of people associate the feeling of opiates with love. It's very, very similar, and I it's also consistent, you know. So if you don't have love and you don't have consistency in your life, that I know how that makes me feel and it never fails until it does, you know. So was it on tour that you are slipping up finding before then I mean, like first of all, if you if you're if you're an addict or Nakahara like, like, doesn't, you can put us in any city in the world and NFL and I'll find what I need just how that's I'm a I in the tune that way, I seek, what I want. You know that's why I'm here with her. So, but yeah, I mean it's anywhere, you know, and you can only try to control it far because I keep up this front for her, right? She can't see how broken IM. She can't see how much pain I'm in. Right. Because then she'll leave me she leaves me. Then what what does that make me? Right. So I mean just trying to keep hustle on top of doing a tour on top of trying to. Keep up this personality that when she met me, like I was this person. And I was that person. And then I stopped being that person that I had to fake it, that's always really hard. You know. Think addiction looks buried addiction seems very different until you're in it people like, how do you not know Billy's someone? It's not like when he was using he wasn't showing up. It's not like he wasn't doing his job. And like wasn't laying around all day wasn't. He would. You know, maybe my instincts went off a little bit. But other than that. It was monks who is doing what he said he was going to do across the board except for using, you know. So, so it, it looks very different when you're in it, then when you're then what you think it might not like look like and I've been going alanon now and it has, which is a program for people who've friends in our loved ones family in recovery, and learning so much. And I'm in this new space where this word co-dependency and ego and what you realize what alanon is, is this actually a program for us for me? It's not about in the qualifier. You know thought about the person that got you in there. It's about looking at your own world. Because in my perspective for most of the time, I thought, oh, Billy's using that's him. It's all his faults. That's all him. I have nothing to do with that. Some people in those relationships do blame themselves. It's all everyone's situation's different. But for me I I just saw. He's broken. I want to help them. I want to help fix them, but I can't and I also don't want to get dragged down with it. So how do I create healthy distance? Which is why for a while we had we were trying to navigate this space and this grey area. But we're so in love. So it was the sort of a very confusing space to be in. Was there ever any time because you have your brand panic Prussia? And then there's model meals, and I'm just wondering, like were you ever resentful for, like, kind of what was going on as it relates to your business because I think, like, you know, we, we are in our masculine, so often just like running the business making sure everything is running smoothly so to have that compassion and slip into that feminine. I don't know how easy that is. So what was that, like, you know, we have separated in terms of bottle meals? That's we've kept that separate intentionally my business partner, and I had a conversation when I met Billy because I love him and he's an incredible chef. So we cut that separate. So it's been that's been separate. But I think what's what's hard is what was hard, as I'm so used to share. Ring my life and not because I feel like I have to just because it's natural and it feels good to me. And I connect, but when someone else is involved, you also you have to be really cautious of their own of giving them privacy in space, because it's not all mine to fair me sharing how I'm feeling would out him. And it's not my, my I can't tell I can't do that. That's not fair. You know. And so what I will say is. Billy is incredibly conscious man. The the way that he can talk about feelings emotions and consciousness and these, and so never it always in our relationship. He is the, the addict is has enough. Shame. And they're beating themselves up enough. Like they don't need other people doing it there already. I mean and you can speak to this more than I can. But he's so conscious and he it's so beautiful. And so what it turned into this beautiful lesson for me of, of keeping things of going through things on my own, and the truth is it's pulled me away from social media a lot. But it's exactly where I needed to be. Yeah. Because I was thinking about. It's like your perception of the situation isn't his truth, right? How you perceive whatever things going on is in the actual his truth of what he's experiencing. And it's interesting about the Al-Anon. That you brought up as I remember when we had a D Jeffy and Sophie Jaffe on their amazing, the best number one, and they talked a lot about, she talked a lot about her role and her active participation in his sex. Addict in him being a sect Dodig em him being a former addict, and how when she finally took responsibility necessarily, but a look at herself in the mirror, and how she was participating in the situation like everything changed everything changed for her. Everything changed for him. I'm curious about a time when you had an intuitive hit about something going on and it was confirmed, right? Which one? That's what I'm thinking, which I guess on the list. With her intuition, where you like. No, that's not true. Like because sometimes you know, the immediate reaction for someone if they're used to deny no matter what you did this, you know, if it's true in a minute, later like yacht is true. Your immediate reaction is to defense. Did you deny every time and you're like no, no no or hose? Absolutely not. I'm always on the defensive because I'm always in the wrong like I'm never transparent about my behavior. My activities aren't for sure. But, you know, this, this is the funny thing with danika is, you know, we had this conversation month month or two ago and she had said, if, if you wanted to use you can use just you should've told me about it, it, you're an adult you can do what you wanna do. You know, and she would have more accepted that honesty than me lying about it. So I could came to her and said, you know, a really over the sobriety shit. I just wanna get high right now but I want you to know what I'm doing. And this is what I'm gonna do, and that she could accept that. And then decide how she feels about that. And but that the actions can have consequences. You know, I thought if she saw the fact that I, I wanted to do that or at one is not feel that she was going to judge me, I'll stick, and see how broken she's gonna leave anyway. So amounts of not tell anybody and save, you know, the whole shame and guilt over it, because I know it's wrong action in oh and but I, I never had anybody to trust them. I mean I I she has the most trust. I haven't an in anybody in this world. And even then it's still everything suspect makes I can't believe that you actually give shit about me, right? You really don't. Because the world's that way, but she does. And so, yeah, you know it's. I think the moment, but you're asking the moment that came to my mind is when MRs probably about three months ago, it was right before you got sober when he stayed over at my house, we, so we had taken like a month, where student day where we where we didn't talk. We came back. We went to Mexico and I went to Mexico and Mike. My intention was I wanted to face, I won't clarity on what I want to do next to my career next life. Right. And the clarity, I got was that we really needed some space, because things weren't working the way that we were doing things and so that became this entire trip was this conversation and I'm so grateful because I had planned to get off social media for week and do all that. So it really gave us this week to actually be an cry, and I got sick because obviously, eight cheesecake off street and, you know, a bunch of other stuff, but then we came back and we decided we make him back. Let's take a month and just not really talk for each other and see how that goes, and wouldn't, you know, well, and then, so after that time, really, let's get together and talk about things. And as one does when you love each other we at first, it was offered for like ten minutes, and then it was like I wanna touch you. And then. Here we are, but, but eventually, you know, we can re reconnected, and he was in a spent then he started going to meetings, and you'd gonna sponsor and what are you did it? Maybe he did it. That's the face of I should have told you the truth into I'm sorry. No, I high attempted it. But like you said those things because I wanted you to think. Because I was please love me again, please do it again. Again. You don't know what I'm I want to do these things. But it didn't. Yeah. And so he stayed over one night and I was in my bed, and I had this gut feeling up less, and he was in the bathroom, which is kind of like a us turn bed. So I couldn't see it and I was and I was like, what are you doing there? He use accounting come in the doors open. It's like come in here. Nothing. And so I was. My gut. One of knows I'm gonna fucking go in there, and so and okay with me down. It's fun. And there was like a needle in his pocket as what is that? And he had forgotten put it there. And he told me with steroids time, so we had a conversation about steroids. Why are you doing Sarah? I love you. Exactly, as you are, like this whole. Yeah. More pay what arguments going to be? At art for sure. Because in this, this and that, that's what we do. I what, what what's damage control? My whole life is damaged control. It's going to cause the least amount of, of shame guilt, frustration. And like, you know, might be able to get out of it right here. At that point. I was like. I wasn't almost wasn't even mad because it wasn't surprising anymore, and I sort of weird sort of broken up, like we were sort of navigating this new space, and I was like, okay, this is not, what am I going to whatever, you know, those kind of along the lines of unique to figure yourself out? And so he apparently talked with sponsor that night, I got rid of things, and I don't know how soon after that. But you eventually kind of when you share. Oh, that was kind of like the beginning. Demise of it. You know, if you're not, like I am, like I can't keep it going for very long things get really bad for me really fast because progressive illness, right on, I don't start where I left on. I mean I don't start the beginning. I start where I left off and shortly after that, I remember I leaving there and I don't know how long ago I was mainly staying in my car at this moment that, but she didn't know that, like you have to have everything together. So my friend called me. And he said, hey, easing as an alcoholic he's expedition, and he's really close to me helped me through a hard time couple years ago when we're going through treatment and use. Hey, you know, I don't want to be alone. We come hang out with me. And yes, please I need a break need a place where I could actually be honest, I don't have to hide things. I could just be me which is never in life. And you know, we're is in the hotel room in Huntington, and we go hang out in, like I remember the first time like this feeling of being relaxed I finally could sit down and I didn't have to pretend anymore. I could put me out in this is. What it is. I can don't be secret that could just be me and it was great. And then I went to the rest use the restroom. And as I came back out he had done some of my drugs on the table. And I remember looking at his eyes in and I watched him fallout. Stop breathing. Stop breathing in front of my face. And I remember going over to him trying to keep them alive screaming for help. We're in the lock we'll tell room and I'm trying to scream for help might doing chest compressions on him. And I don't know what I'm doing really. I'm screaming. And then like this is real now. Like Israel fuck. I can't even get five minutes of, of any kind of peace and while I'm while this is all going on. I remember I thought three things I thought one. What does he get this break? Right. I was using I wanted to break from lane like this never happens to me. So how come you? How come he gets it? He doesn't deserve it. I do. Right to, I also I love this person. I know who he is intimately like, I know his family and his kids, and I realized that if he dies, I'm never going to be the same already taken off toxic ownership over my life as it is. And if he had his death into it is the rap I MAs would just bucket and just keep going. Don't look back. And then one of the best things that have happened to me. Also said because I'm typically a us alone, I don't use with people. I'm not around people. I'm always by myself, and I said, I always used to say, well, if this happens to me, and I remember specifically saying, you know, when this happens to me might if became a win, and I knew I was going to die if I continuing when this happens to me, I'm going to be alone. No one's going to be here to save me a scared me because I don't want to die and that, that was the. I'm like it's not a game anymore. Guys like the party's done like it. Luckily he survived went to the hospital, but that was the last night. I used I wouldn't call them a good friend of mine that works for treehouse sedan, he'd helped me, I don't know what I'm doing anymore, and that started this journey, and that was really only almost ninety days ago. Tomorrow. Yeah. Is heavy heavy situation. But that's the kind of added, I am you know, I, I need massive events to happen before I can stop. Once I started that simple thing. 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I think it's a free person, but for me exempt like my mother is really the only family, I mean I have extended family, but my mom's really only one that's been there for me and. My pain that I experienced from my past, and how I grew up in and all that overwhelms that, like I don't wanna feel it anymore. The shame and the guilt and, and all the traumas I don't wanna feel it any more. So in my brain, I would sacrifice everything not to feel not to remember not to feel. I don't really care how much you love me like that doesn't stop the pain. Right. So my whole goal is I, I wanna not hurt. That's it. And so that, that overwhelms any kind of love that anyone can give you, you know, and that's first and foremost, because if I don't get that I feel like I'm gonna die. Yeah. So I mean that, that's for most people drowns all that out that pain and that shaming the go, it overwhelms everything. So thankful like I just love you both so much. And I'm so thankful you're sharing and being so honest, and, you know, it's interesting when you're talking about, like using alone, it's like shame loves to get you allow shame loves when you're alone and being in situations like this, where you're surrounded by people, and you're being very honest. Even just saying that one lie that, you know, came up is so important, and not small and not that it matters, what I say, but when you do think about shame in situations where any of us have felt shame it loves when you're alone. And that's the moving away from lake where we are, as humanity in consciousness expansion, which we've talked about yesterday and fear is aloneness. And that's digital be alone. Yeah. It also can't survive. Yeah. Exactly. So your friend. So when he got when the, the hospital came and everything like that, or the, the he was able to go to the hospital. What happens in that situation? Like do you get someone getting like trouble or the basic? I mean he was resuscitate did obviously in usually well, in California, you have what's called the good Samaritan law. Because people were dying because no one would call on overdoses. So if you call on an overdose whoever's at the scene, you don't get questioned. You don't get you just get your name and then they let you go, no matter what's found, you know, but as soon as you leave the property where you're at then that's different story. But, you know that's because people were not saving anybody your Odeon I'm gonna get in trouble. So it's mere you, you gotta go and that's not okay. And that's one of the things I thought of in the moment is I got I don't care if I'm in trouble like I just want him to live, you know, and because it just. I care about them so that I've seen a lot of people overdose in my lifetime. Absolutely. But nobody cared about. So that was an experience to help you. If you OD like that's one thing. But like I care about this person, I don't want him to die, which is the I've never had that feeling before. And it's been an ongoing process like any other day called him crying. I just Google Fenton all in don't Google Fenton all and, you know, through this process, I've been very open about within the people close to me about sort of being the partner to someone in an and a lot of people who don't understand the diction are gonna tell they want you to stay safe. I get it. Like I get went for my loved ones say, what are you doing in that? And so these last few months have been this conversation internal conversation with me and my coach and my friends, and like, whoever and you really have to just like a little word of wisdom really need to be careful with who you seek advice from and, and obviously the people that love you. But just keep in like, if nothing else, make sure you have a strong enough foundation in your own desires to come back to yourself. No matter what information comes into and make judgment called based on. What you really what feels right to you, because if I had followed the sheds in my life, but all the things I thought I should do, I would never have this incredible man. He has grown me in ways that I can't even articulate and, and he the things that he brings to the table are so different, you know, so much in my life. I'm like I need this like a successful entrepreneur, who's jetting around the country and do all the things and it's like fun, though. I'm gonna give you exactly what you need. And it was this love. I'm Billy is someone who makes me feel orcas me opportunity to be exactly. Who I am? You know. And so through this conversation, it's been it's been for me internally, do I close the store and move on. And then maybe we reconnect one day down the road and things work, but I also can't hold onto that. So it was that, and then the other side was, or do I stay in this and put in the work and, and see what happens. And in the beginning, it was, I was like I'm out. I was so hurt. And then eventually, I got really clear. And I took a lot of the space that I need. I haven't taken on any work stuff like I literally have said, no to everything this year because I needed that space. And I finally realized that, regardless of if this works out between us or not this process will grow me. You know, and I'll, I'll be able to help other people and more than anything he's worth fighting for. He is the most incredible sweet. He really is one of the most incredible beautiful souls is such a light. He's so and, and he says sensitive at which is probably what, what has driven you to use a lot of the time is, you have such beautiful sensitive, and, and he's worth it. And I know that we together were given this experience because we're going to speak out about it, and we're going to be able to help a lot of you. And so the truth is, we're going through right now, like this is the first time and that's why I you know, when we were talking about this pockets, I was, like you, two are the ones who I would have this conversation with, and let me talk to billions, if it's something that he wants to do. You know, it's his story to tell to. And so I'm just so grateful that we're in the space on, I hope we can return down the road and say, okay, this is what we learn. Because we're in it right now. But it has brought it has been some of the most growth provoking conscious conversations about our dynamic, and how we worked together and how we support each other and how we and what it comes back to. And I know you will agree. On this is what it comes back to is focused on yourself. Yes. If I'm gonna heal him or I'm going to help him. It's only by me continuing to do the work on myself in setting boundaries in, like one of the thing is if we're going to be together like you have to work it out on program like you have to speak the same language because I'm just learning to speak this languages. Sophie, and it's the first time I've been, I've been around recovery for a long time, and I can honestly say the first time I feel like I'm in it might like I I'm invested in fully invested and you let's realizing that I don't have all the answers, and I'm not your solution. But, but I want to find an answer with you for sure. And it's brought up for me. I can pretty open about my experiences with food addiction, and disordered eating, and I spent time in overeaters anonymous and just recently, it made me realize from the co my codependency was in, he became this emotional supports me. He was what instead I used to use food to take the edge off and for love and comfort and all this stuff and he kind of stepped in and. The foods role. So I was like cool. The food is like Mallow. Realize this lightbulb just recently. Oh Billy's, a new food. And I mean you, you guys are looking at me. He's a snack, right? But, but, you know. So it's really cool because his this experience Bill. Billy is someone who has no ego. And he is will he is one of the most humble guys of one of the most he's just wants to serve, and he just wants to help, and he is willing to do the work on himself. He is like in a conversation to hear a man's always. He will he will see his role in it. You want accuse me, he just says, maybe I didn't see it this way. Or maybe I missed something here. You know, just to from for to see a man, and I think that's why this conversation mindfulness community entity is so important as well to see a man feel like speak about their feelings and be vulnerable is so important. Yeah. And so, yeah, through through this experience, led me back into the overeaters anonymous program, which has been incredible and into alanon. And like we said this shame thrives in being so low. And so what a beautiful thing to find these, these are recovery. It's, it's based on community and it doesn't mean that this. The solution for everyone. But for us, it's been really helpful. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, we're equally as grateful to hold space for a conversation like this, and that you trust us, like I do you know, we don't take that lightly, subpoenaed, you, but I find it so interesting within like just in, like the micro of our community. And when they sometimes they'll ask us like, no post the secret Facebook group like I really wanna see expanders for like this type of relationship like show me this and it's so funny. How we I've done this to where I'm like, I really wanna see, like the ideal like show me that really what is more productive and deeply kind of encoding like in our body, and be able to receive is, is seeing the real so like listening to a conversation like this, and understanding the highs and the lows in the dynamics of, of growth, and expansion and then. You know, relapse and recovery and, and dependency, and then being independent within relationship like I need to see that, you know what I mean. Because we all are we all have those aspects within our relationships or will will have those aspects was within our relationship. So where was I going with that? But I just I of want to highlight that this is real and this is what we should be seeking in, like the ideal model of that. Yeah. I mean we're merest each other. Yeah, I look at Billy and what we've learned in the last I mean for me ego rights service like the way he lives, his life. It's the opposite of, you know, not that I we just we, he teaches me so much, and I think the most what happened with the codependency peace and what he was saying is he learned to serve me because I represented security. So what happened was he ended up fearing saying anything or doing anything could potentially push me away? So as a result, I wasn't challenged, you know, if no one if. Your partner should be there to give you feedback with love with love being the core. But feedback is so important in a relationship because I love growth and, and because he didn't it was too vulnerable for him to say, hey, European fucking selfish. When you do that, or like you need to, like, look at this thing he couldn't he didn't want to say that because it would. And so our dynamic got really. A lot of it stems from the, you know, not being able to live my truth. Right. First of all, I didn't know much Ruth. I mean I, I kind of different versions of it for everybody. But, like if I told her the truth on things she would leave or she wouldn't be worth it. And if she goes cured, he's gone, and, like, don't leave me. I just I remember saying we were getting in an argument on the bus, and I remember just tone of go look at. We're. We've got an argument and I was like he just she felt that she was making me feel like I wasn't doing enough. I didn't have an online business. I wasn't starting my I all it was doing was the tour and for me. That was a lot. I remember saying you know what? Like I have a dog I have a girlfriend, I love I have for the first time I have money in the Bank. I don't have to struggle kind just enjoy this without having to push me anywhere because it's going to go the me enjoy before leaves. Right. So that was like my initial like I in and everything I did was just a expected it to go because if you're going to see the room eventually, so I just want to try to piece everything together. So you were just just happy. Keep everything. All right. And I was projecting mind, not enough nece onto him. You know, like my self worth for very long time was attached to achievement. I'm gonna have all these businesses and I'm going to go on tour and I'm gonna be this on Instagram and whatever it is. And so much of my self worth was bad. Right. And so I was value him in that way. And those were. Things that he was valuing. He was valuing his serenity in peace. And, and, and the thing is with what Bill is saying is like, we get so afraid for someone to see who we really are put on these masks, we wear these different. No personalities. When the reality is all we wanna do is see that, that real self. You know, I see it. It's like those glimpses. It's when you can love. It's why you love someone over and over. No matter what happens. You're like it's cut. I see you like you're in there when you said to me, like, I, I see that I see what you get your potential ic- issue. She's I see that word potential anymore known as though. She used to say, like I, I, I see, you know, you don't like yeah. I, I don't like me enough to look at me. You know that she could see pass all that stuff, which I'm so grateful. She did because that was like a little bit of hope that maybe I was missing something in my subjective. Reality wasn't actually fact in that was a huge, huge. On our tour Bill. There was a part of our tour would really came out and spoke and the women, like I would read their posts in the insert math, and they'd be like, in the best part was like Billy came out, and he told you the story. Really his story and that moment when they got to hear him speak, and they saw his light like everyone else can see it said, that's why that's why you hurt so many people is because you're very lovable and they seed your light. And so it hurt like you should be you should understand that, that you have worth solely even based on the fat, obviously, just because you're here, but solely on the fact that you can even hurt people if you didn't matter then you wouldn't hurt people. Like your behaviors actions went hurt people. I mean I get that now but you realize I'm fighting we fight for me. Thirty five years of conditioning bike, you know, Paloma therapists is like I decide what the world is between the cats and Billy buttons, and between that time for me was very traumatic and I believed life to be a certain way. So I opted on that, that motive like this. I have to protect me from the world. I'm really not worth it. I'm not worth loving. I'm neither is all these things were built in. And then now you know, I live my life to, to not suffer from things. I did you know, so it's hard he realizes mindful masculinity. Like what does that mean to you guys? She's, she's Boorda masculine one in the religion. My limits me means, just I think more than they think men and it doesn't just have to be men. But I guess speaking to men directly would be to be in touch with their emotions like tap into this, this fem that, like, what, how the feminine tons tap into intuition? We try tend to lead a life from feeling. I spent most of my life, not feeling my feelings, and shoveling down them down with food. I was never vulnerable. I never it just wasn't the conversation that I was having. And when I learned to feel my feelings, and stay my body. I realized I had this compass. It talked told me everything I needed to know rather than you know, reasoning something out in your head. All the should I actually could trust how I felt my body and Bala that. And so I think for men to be able to actually be feelings base in some ways and to fall, their motions and, and to talk about them be vulnerable. I can't imagine the pressure that men have on them to be. A certain way and said, be strong and to be manly, and to not be sensitive and cry. Like god. I don't have any of that. I was never raised that way. I didn't have like a strong masculine figure in my life is raised by my mother and my grandmother. Right. So it's a very feminine. I fill out of energy like I know the golden girls by name I guy I enjoy cooking and cleaning and loving and caring nurturing like these are all things that I enjoy, I don't really care about sports. I don't I don't care how tough I am. I don't need to prove how much auto like I don't care. You can do all that, you know, weight, which is, you know, I think for me like the mindful masculinity. I just kind of combined what? The women around me showed me, plus, with my own innate masculine, the energy. So it's just like it's a nice combination of both know I don't have to be tough. But I don't have to know everything, but, you know, I judge the world on by on on your actions. You know, like do you love enough? You know, you can't take any of this stuff with you. How are you treat? The Philip man next to, you know, like or woman next few people in general. I don't know. But it's just not having to be, what society, thinks a man should be, you know, I think it's I live most of my life trying to fit into this box that people told me I had to do you know what I didn't realize I didn't have to anymore. What do you do on days? When you're like, what are you tell yourself when you're like this is hard and, like the days where he's relapsed? And like it's been like what is that? Then like your inner conversation for. Yeah. So, so I've been doing Ray. He and hypnotherapy recently and I always have meditated for years. And I worked with. A coach really closely which are eminent. I acknowledged those are major luxuries and privileges and not necessary either. There's a lot of these e waste that sort of stuff free recordings for him. No therapy. That's the thing. But what I was doing when I found out, I was really angry. And there was the woman who reached outs me on Instagram during billion is I'm of gray the gray area. She reached out and said that she had been with him and. It was it slapped me across the face. My ego did not like that, course and it wasn't outside. I mean it was I was on a dating app. Like I wasn't you know, it was a gray area. I was it was a gray area. So we were kind of together, but, but, you know, do you know the power of women look. Yes. You know and reached out and said, you know, I've been through something like this, and I don't want, you know, just was really beautiful. And, and that was like a real, because because that I took personally the addiction, I never took personally, I didn't think it was my fault. And so it was kind of easy to say, I just wanna come out this from love, but I have to like set boundaries. Like, how do we navigate this, but the other one that hit me and so there were five and I was angry. And I talked to you like never talk to before we're usually very conscious communicators, I will say, not fun. I was mad. And I didn't talk to him for five days, which was five miserable days when you are used to talking to your best friend and sharing life with someone wrote letters during that time them because I had to get the emotions out like the feel and eventually, what happens in is, as we navigated this experience in as part of this recovery is Lee effector hearts, open and through. Achey and three hypnotherapy like one of the things that kept coming to me, it was open your heart open, your heart, and I'm like, oh, I feel my heart's open, and, and something clicked was on a walk with my our dog and, and my heart just like solid from what it really was. And I saw him as the light filled being he is an understood why he might make those choices. And he did a really good job of articulating why, you know, and, and it was just really beautiful to understa like step back and say, and be able to feel like I could see everything from love and what it did was it lead. This conversation between us about ego about codependency about, like we started like learning about is the first honest conversation, we've we've, we've had since I've, I met, you know, holds bar. This is what like this is what it is regardless of how about to say. This is how it is. Yeah, this is the truth. Start to finish. This is it. Yeah. And she put her truth out there and we saw with the truth matched him. Like, okay that's real. Because both are. The Bill and then where it didn't we talk more issues, hugely powerful, and that for someone going through through being with recovery. There are endless amounts of resources. So for me journaling helps me really get stuff out of my mind. There's a lot of literature, there's podcasts. But the meetings if if that appeals to go, go few times, don't make a decision off the first time but community is really powerful because we tend to think we're alone in everything and no-one. And I, I still struggle with that, that person can't relate relate to my lifestyle and that person, you know, and, and you realize more and more as you go, and you're in these communities that you hear the things you need to hear. So there's so many free resources. That's a beautiful thing. There's so many things out there to support. I'm curious how you guys have been able to create those boundaries or be more independent within the relationship to support recovery just to support like you both in a relationship as a couple. So what does that look like? And has it been challenging? We're still figuring that out right now. We the first time I've ever approached it like this for me. I, I know that we both have to work, our own programs. Like one of the things issues with us is that she's still filled with resentment in distrust in anger. I in barris -ment all these things like I can't hang out with her family all the time in, in her friends, they, there's, there's all these issues, right? And then I felt like she would look to me. Like what are we? What are you going to do about this? What are we gonna talk about this? Well, I can't solve that for you. You have to figure out how to solve the on your own and that path is different than my path. I'm figuring out my stuff with that in so I can come to an even playing field with you. And then over time we work on the trust. Right. That's consistency over a long period of time. Can we be transparent with each other? Can we tell each other? Honestly that led to a really good bunch of conversations about like, you know, do we wanna see the people doing not do you want to live openly? Do we not like I you know intent? Standing that the. It's just the, the thing that was the most attractive part about that is just the honesty that comes with it. And that's what we we're talking about here. Quickly. But you can you can we be on it. Can we just practice being honest and transparent? Let's start there. Right. And whatever that brings we'll go to the next step. But let's just see if we can be honest, which other about everything we do all the time. Even if it's like I really don't wanna see you tonight. I want to go and I'm going over here, and I need a break from all this. Can I just say that because usually I'm known at all break my boundaries because I want her to be happy and so for that lies and that that's been really difficult to navigate reminding myself that we don't have a relationship if there's, if he doesn't have his recovery both of them, don't really, you know? So, so I have to come second and what I had, you know, working with my coach when we were going through this. I realized that what I had to do is be strong enough to break the codependency. I had on the emotional comforts, he provided for me, but I had to be strong enough to give him permission to not take care of me or my feelings right now. And are we doing the best job in it probably not? But you to give him permission to say your, your recovery comes first. So if there's not time for me at the end of the day, then there's time, we'll figure it out. But I'll put my recovery. I in you put yours I. Yeah. Right. So no one's coming in second. Really in in your first time I when, when that said and done, then whatever time we have left we connect, and share about that experience in walk the same path going the same direction rather as opposed to me trying to carry her her trying to carry me. What, what he you know, these folks are no joke. This is not like I mean, you know, not to lessen what I struggle with, with food, but it's just not as life risking immediately. You know, it is long-term, of course, but, but if we don't pyro ties we, we don't provide ties that there's no us he will die. He's not like he's always says he's like I've had enough. I'll WADA chances and what's that thing. They say you either end up in institution or Joe's. It's does it do in institutions that ago two to three right now. So, right. Trying to say the third one. Yeah. It's interesting to the time I had, like a situation where I had like infidelity and it was a great during gray area, guys. Love grey areas. That was one thing I learned is never fucking big integrated area. But also to allowed us to really break down enough to rebuild, where there was Boehner ability, there was authenticity. There was like an openness there was like an emotional connection enough for me to like, for us to rebuild, and it really was the beginning of our relationship together really crazy thing. And that's why I think completely differently about those situations now to this day, you know, I have no judgment against either party. And I just see them from such different light in perspective. How is the rake in hypnotherapy helped you like what is that? The Mike great question. The Ricky is kind of just, I'm not doing it formally. I used to work with Kelsey Patel, who's amazing. She did it for me like five years ago, and she's just phenomenal. She's here in L A has a lot of resources. But I actually during the depths of some of our challenging times, I was on a photo shoot Cy model as well. And I was on photo shoot in Boston and my makeup artists, and my Silas, were both reheat. Teachers. Wow. And I was like, in this really dark like lays, and they both did rake, Yaman, yet me. And I really they, they sort of they did it separately. Came to me with the same message about opening my heart like they felt that individually and then the hypnotherapy do guided with a friend of mine, who is does it just virtually and same thing, a lot of like heart opening Sussman really powerful? I'm just really open to whatever is out there. I, I think what's been hard is. I'm really into self care. It's something that I that I you know, have made sort of part of my living and I do the things for the most part, not perfect. But I pretty much meditate every day, and I was feeling every day, and I was reading I was doing all the things in working out most of the time and eaten healthy while we were going through a lot of this, and, and it was and I was like I'm doing all the things and it's not working. And my coach actually said she said, you're so used to being able to figure things out and put things in boxes at this gray area is going to be the absolute best place for you to be. Because if you can get comfortable in this gray area where something doesn't. Fit in the box, and you can't define it, and you don't know what's going on. But you still have to exist throughout it. That's going to be really freeing. I've been trying. Yeah. Wow. How have you talked to your family? Oh, I mean it it through sleep. Yeah. I mean I get defensive Billy a lot and not to because. Yeah, the thing with relationships than whenever my friends asked me for relationship advice. I say, I tend to not give it I, I don't want to get it because I'm not in your relationship, and as a friend, or oftentimes seeing the bad stuff. Because when it's good there with the partner in their enjoying it together. And then when it's bad, they can't go to that person that's closest to them because it has to do with that person. And so they go to you. And so you're going to hear that, like negative and argument and all that for a lot most of your friends relationships Zolotas time. Right. Loves them lemons, relationships. So what it comes down to is seeking advice when people you trust who are living, the kind of lifestyle or thinking in the same way you are. But, you know, my coach the best that she doesn't give me advice. That's the truth. She just asked me questions, questions and you know she's incredible. And so she really her job is to help me, get clear on what I really. We want. And so, yeah, it's just it's been. And then with family, we haven't navigated yet. The truth is addiction comes with a lot of stigma, and it comes with a lot of misunderstanding, and if, if you didn't know someone who. If you saw belly and you would never think this guy is shooting drugs on his arm secretly. Right. And, and, and then and so your idea is what you see, driving downtown LA, or whatever it the addicts and whatever. But these addiction problems are helped happening in some of the wealthiest communities than in high schools like this these like wealthy, you know, would like a fluent educated. Frivolous communities are dealing with us in some of the biggest ways. And so I think that Billy story these opportunities to shares is opportunity to change the stigmas around the diction. And so for me with, with, with family with friends, I just. I have to I it's, it's been tough, and they go back and forth. But I'd have some I have incredible friends in for the most part. They just love me in, they listen. They don't tell me what to do. They just say we just want you to be happy. And so that's that I guess. Wilson. Yeah. That's always so hard. I have a guy friend to list is like on a small, very small scale but has a girl, and they've been through some stuff he would express it to friends and other friends have that idea. But grind. And they don't see the laughing and giggling, in bed at night, or you know, making pancakes in the morning. And I remember that even through high school and college that was like the way girls operated, you, would, you know, come together on these negative parts of your relationship express them, and then two weeks later he'd be like. I wanna tell them you're like, oh, and then it pushed here, because it pushes your friendship angry, because it puts them in a position where now you're kind of resenting them when author doing is being loving in trying to help, you know, like you have to be really cautious. But I'm great ball lucky that, you know, most of my friends are very conscious and having an understanding, but it's just something that we've had to navigate and again, like I said before we're in the beginning of it. I am. I am fresh to this alanon world. I am fresh, it's just it's fresh, you know, it's new, and so I think it's important to just share when you're in that point to and say, like I don't really know when I'm learning and Alan is like not to check up on him all the time like all at times, where I'm like, what are you doing? You know what's going on not to check up? I'm learning. Not too, like they say, like don't dump the alcohol down the drain just causes more like shame and issue like, you know the there's some learning a lot with how to deal with it and how to focus on me. You know, and I'm not perfect, but I'm learning a lot and I'm so grateful. I feel really grateful to how to for my life to have gone in this addiction arena, because I feel like the tools that are learned and taught through that program, the self awareness through any sort of recovery programs are so powerful universal their universal their power in the addiction. And I'm reading this book codependent, no more right now by melody beady really famous book on codependency. And, and I'm reading this list of the things that identifies cut it. I'm like, okay, so literally everyone, I don't know anyone who could read through this less than not highlight ten of these things. And so I think it's actually our culture that builds relationships based on you complete me your. My other half versus to individual whole beings that then come together to experience a sort of third identity that that is even brighter together. Right. But their individual their whole on their own. I think I like addiction, the most of everything. Because it's a very easy way to see your malady in what you need to work on a lot of people go their whole life struggling with this. They don't know how to put a name to it with food sex more, whatever it is be. It could be depending your whole life in your life would be not as flourishing, if you didn't get a chance to work on this stuff. Like I do. I'm in it every day. And because of my actions so glaring in my face I can see it very clear. Right. And, and I get a chance to work on a lot of people go through the whole life. Never you to work on any of this, or looking at this parts themselves or sharing this to the vulnerability in the truth, and being set frying, a lot of people, I know my family that are very there's, they don't know another way to live in. I know what that's like that's miserable. You know, you're not is free in his connected as you could be in. That's what that's I'm, like, really grateful for being in this arena as well. The, the parts of recovery are applicable to everyone in life. Can you talk about a few things? Oh, the twelfth sets of, of any anonymous program 'cause since from outgo alcoholics anonymous, but those steps to reply to everybody. Right. Okay. So like your your, your life can become unmanageable, right? With anything. We could eat it with, like I said, sex drugs, rock and roll women doesn't matter how it affects your life. I I love how Russell brand like his interpretation of the steps like I'm fucked. I'm not gonna fuck myself, but I'm willing to be invoked by those the first three steps that the best part about it in like the ability that I'm not God. And I don't have to be. But there's something out there bigger than me. Right. And there's bigger purpose. I think a lot of people, the fourth step is great because it does it like a inventory, resentments, everybody feels that I am wrong because of this, you know, and it's your fault. But if you break that down you can go through all the steps in every situation, you realize ooh ahead apartment. Department. I played Martin mostly everything. Very few exceptions in life. Did you not play a part in something? And even then your part in it is to maybe be vocal about it, or, you know, share your story it so you can help somebody else in. That's your partner. If you don't wanna do that, then story. But, but yeah, so to that applies to everybody. Right. Being able to make a list of people, you've harmed and be become willing to make immense them all except when to do. So would injure them or others rights or certain ones you can't make because might might hurt somebody else in, in the course of it, but may commence feud and it not just say, I'm sorry. But make amends go to somebody and say, hey, how can I make this? Right. I'm sorry. I wrong to you. And this is what I did. And this is how it hurts you. How can I make it right? And then do whatever is asked of you to do that. That's powerful. Right. Then you can actually walk through life with your head. Hi, everybody. Looks down. And they, they do things to people wanna talk about silly avoid people in this, and that, and that adds up after a while, you know, and so deliver clean in clearing ticket tents that everyday, so, at the end of my day I where have I. Gone wrong with whoever harmed, what have I said doing? They make an immense for something. Do need approach somebody in clear day, so you can go to you can go to sleep with your head empty and just full love? And then pray meditate for how can I carry this message of recovery in love anybody? Yeah. Everyone does that. And you should you know, to everybody and then, like the little principles within the program, you know, easy does it slowdown. You know, be have patients with yourself. You know. So I think those are those applied everybody if everyone could do the twelve steps to guarantee their life would be a lot easier. True. 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He mentioned God and I am curious about, like your relationship with God or source and how that has changed in recovery. And what's you see in yourself as that relationship? Strengthens. I think for me most of my life, I was if there was God I was mad at him. And I didn't appreciate I didn't understand. So I, I used to not believe in God. You know, you can't tell me this is all bite happens. This is all this is all your plan cer-, we you fucked up because this is not good. That was my initial reaction. And so I was talking to my sponsor about it. We are on step three and we were talking about journal, I will in my life over to care of goddess. I understood him in. Motto understand him in the started because of the fact that I knew that if I don't do this thing, right? I'm going to die. So I have the gift of desperation rights. Okay. Now it's real for me case me really look at what has God means to me. And he said something that was really profound to me. He said, well, you could just make it a group of drunks geo D group of drunks when you're in alcoholics anonymous when you're I make better decisions when I'm vulnerable with that relationship. But it takes a two way street. So I gotta tell everyone how I'm doing. I gotta be vulnerable. I got put the work, you gotta show up, you know, have to communicate and take advice in, when I'm in that source like my way, better decisions and my life gets better, you know. And so for me in the beginning as right group trunks, was all I needed. Good orderly direction that was tangible for me, because God's not really centrally tangible yet, for me that made it real. So I can put my faith that this worked for them when I'm here I make better decisions. That's a higher power than me. Good enough. To get started. Idea of God is a man and fell. Oh, and I, I hate how like, first of all, even if you know what God is. Which you don't doesn't have a gender, like, why would God have gender by religions? I think the only way man can make God tangible, but there's no gender. It's bigger than you realize if you know what happens when you die your liar. Right. If you know what God really is your lower. You have maybe your own personal conception of him. But you don't know nobody knows it's bigger than that. And you know, so that always a helped me to just focus on what's in front of me, and let the seed grow. A white man. Yeah. You might think of God is like this man with a white beard or something. It was like I don't like men. If you live with men, I him, he was, like, no, thanks. No less than one was another man to let me down, right? This os. No, no good for me. But it ended it's not. Yeah. In the nostril tradition. It's so FIA. Timers sophia. Petroleo Yash amazing actually is really really powerful. And then what? So as always wanted of the last thing, the ego thing you with ego. Yeah. Like, what is what have you realized as it relates to that? And how are you? And what does processing mean to you? So this ego concept is so new office. They have known what ego was, but it's not just ego. Like, you know, I look at the social media space, I'm like, oh, my God. Let me have it national or a world crisis around ego. And so what I had to start doing was paying attention to my intentions, when I did everything literally everything. And I will tell you, I am you know that feeling where you're like, oh, this is a new concept. I have so much to earn. Yeah. That's how I feel right now. So I was mine toes anything in the ego sands and a rod or whatever, like I have like one toe in maybe. And I know there's so much more for me. It's awareness. So the first thing I have to do is just develop awareness, every single time I have thought that says I am doing this because of. Wanting to be seen. I hope someone sees me in this car. I hope that I want someone to know that I own a business or that I have this Instagram account or that I did this or that it's like every choice I make where is it coming from? And how do I bring it back to service? And so Billy is taught me service is such a big part of his life. And so for me it's, it's bringing it back checking my intentions with every single thing, I do, and reprogramming, total rewiring the way I live my life to be of service. It was the when I say that I think of the argument, we got in before the about, you mean posting about her relationship, Instagram. So this is what this is one of those intuitive. Thanks like you what you're asking before, is if I had this really weird gut feeling this one day it was odd it had been probably like, Billy was in was covered for about two months, then two and a half months, and I had been with him sort of that whole journey. We've been. We were seeing each other day. I was supporting him through that. I was keeping him off my social media. So a lot of people I assume probably a not thinking about us at all. But be as if no one thinking about it as much as we think they are. But be, you know, assuming that we weren't seeing each other whatever we just wanted to keep space. We weren't on social media with our relationship. I wanted to make sure that that was sacred. And but I had this weird feeling that it looked like from the outside, as I started sharing like Billy occasionally on mine, and him recovering. And he was he started like doing like being on social media, but I was I was like never heard of it. I was not shown I was not visible. I was and I've and I started my egos started saying people are gonna think that I just did like took this guy on the tour used him do the tour and, and ditched him at the end like that was where my ego went, and, and I brought it up because I'm so grateful that we can have those conversations I can say anything to him, and we can have that conversation where usually you want. It's only one of. Thinking that, but it's true, and I'm telling everyone here, but and we talked about it, and, and it was conversation and it's just not. That's not how he lives his life. And I told him I was like it was not about you posting something about me, it's like trying to navigate this, but that night was when I got the message from the girl that said that L basically this girl who would the story earlier. The woman that Billy had been with her friend respondents like one of my quotes of the day and said, you can't be it. The quote was like you can't g everything to everyone and nothing Pearsall or something. She wrote like him be everything to him when he tells the world, you're nothing with true. That's an interesting. You're like you. Well. That was just some more handle more on the story. More of the story. She was just being defensive of her friend who also got her through this process, and who's a wonderful person. And I just I responded in kind of eventually, she said, I want you to know something, but I don't want my friend doesn't want there to be drama around this. And listen, I'm not the kinda girl this to be like, the other the it's her fun like it's Billy's fault noodle and technically, we're not. We weren't together. So like where can I get mad? I'm just going to get mad. And I'm not gonna see I'm gonna totally throw under the rug. And not tell anyone that I was on a dating app at the time, like I did nothing wrong. And, and so anyway, it went into this, this, this situation, and my point in saying, this is the ego conversation came from that because the truth is like. It was I took it, personally, it had nothing to do with me. It had nothing to do with me. And it's like it personally. Yeah. So I'm paying attention. It's about right now. He's just about awareness anytime e steps center, I take action from ego. I thought from ego and it's way bigger than I can comprehend right now. So I'm just trying to grasp onto anything I can comprehend. I think it'd be realizing at the end of all this, all the drama that we went through all the ups and downs like there's a reason for attention. Why these are happening and to be honest to communicate like this is why this happened. This is why it's so how do we correct it in the future? And then, like, that's how life is going to be. It's constantly going to have this cycle of things happening, and then nothing's perfect. Life's life. How we react into it. Are we going to react together with it? Are we going to be transparent with it? Are we going to learn lessons of life, pendulum or just gonna keep feeling? It go back and forth. Oh my gosh. Yeah. But my with that is that doesn't seem ego to me, it seems like an intuitive hit the company energy shifted online and you were going to hear something. No number I was speaking to tuition and it, and I told him later, I said that conversation about posting sharing that I've been part of this recovery rate, that was my that was me trying to articulate a feeling. I was having I did it in a really bad way like that was just the way you described as me was very much. How come you to hug me till the world that I'm doing this alert it, yes? Very strange, but turn to could come saying. Yeah. I mean, it's been one of the most probably growth, bro, provoking conversations in our relationship to do is just be honest. Yeah. And here's the thing if you want to hook up with someone else like let's talk about it, maybe all want into like, maybe we can play around. This conversation long meeting right now. Big comeback Wednesday Martin. Okay. But remarka- says girlfriend Whitney had been talking about it. They speak pretty open about, so, but, but what they say about these open relationships is first of all, they're not like out there saying, everyone should do. But they say is you don't do it for the sex, you do it, because it challenges every bit of ego and personal, like feel like it just challenges all of that. And you and you grow and Secondly. Okay can get it. But we've kind of come, we've had so many conversations about it, which has been one. I think it's been so there's so much growth and we've kind of come round said. I don't think that's really what we want. But I'm really glad that we have been conversation because what it did is it gave each of us permission to if that comes up did know that we can say the speech other and not freak out, and it doesn't it's not this huge thing comes down to the honesty was the most attractive part of it. Can we be honest with each other? But you wanna be with somebody else, I know it's not because you don't love me right? Then that's it's purely physical point because there's only one person I'm connected to in life. And that's her everything else is just fiscal. We our connection. I think feels like it goes deeper than that. And that's what I keep sacred. And then but to be able to talk about these have conversations like do you like that do not like this, but his Donna see for me that was the most. For a lot of men, too. It's probably, especially with other women and females in being attracted to women. And, you know, potentially having relationship or poly-amorous relationship. It's probably so refreshing to be honest about that. You know, I know what Justin I like it's probably been the last year. Maybe two years where we've been, I've been able to be like, wow, she's like fine. He'd not. He doesn't say anything, but he's able to nod without fear. And agree. And we could be honest about, you know, being attracted to other women or, or whatever it is. And it's probably such a mask off and like such a breath of fresh air for a man. Absolutely. I mean, the most people in life, I think they stepped on relationships or look, if they do all these things because they can feel that they have the ability to express, high really film, really into this, or I really liked that, or you stuck in this, like a half to play this part. I can't like that. Everyone can look at me different. You're gonna think I'm weird for wanting it but one experience with you. But I'll explain was with her because she proves it. You don't like I've never talked to about the whole conversation. Brad whole happens women, the untrue. It's talks all about women. Sex drive's in this sort of basically everything that we've been told about. Sex, and our our like all of that stuff is Don not true. Exactly, like a more feminine sort of approach, and so, yeah, it's just really interesting because I think it oftentimes, it's women who wanted to and, and what happens is all that happens is we get shame and lies come up. And so if we could just create spaces in our relationships, whether it's monogamous, or in central non monogamy, or whatever it is just to have space to have honest, conversations, do know that I know that if I could tell Billy anything and it doesn't mean he might not have like be really angry upset right. When a here's Ed or something like that. But for the I, I really feel like I could tell you anything and. We could have a mind conversation, and it was like no Dern on. Oh my gosh. No hot. It's like when when you bring up things that might be detrimental to other relationships, but within your relationship, you can communicate like your understanding of them, deepens, and therefore, you're more attracted to them and Morton latest. It seems counterintuitive to a lot of people who haven't had these conversations that would destroy, like, he would think this me or whatever. But like to have those conversations I mean anytime guys really honest with me. I'm like. I'll tell you what we didn't talk for a while. And after the girl thing took about a couple of days off. And then we're like fuck, you know, we're gonna talk. Right. So we had a real honest conversation, she was mad. I was mad this, this the transparent a mud. It was the most raw competition ever. And I tell you the best sex ever, like. We went from being hate you. This is this dumb not dating to, like, oh my God work connected. Again. It was very raw. But that's honest. And there was no more barrier between us just like a magic, but I still want like broke up and she's like, we just had the past you've ever had because we were honest and, you know, you're not holding back and it's changed so much, we've all like we've always been quite honest. I think outside of his recovery in addiction. I think I don't think he's ever really given me any reason not to trust him ever. So it's hard to explain. It's sort of compartmentalized for me. Is he if he says, it's going to call it calls says it's going to show up shows up he does? He's he is so reliable. And you've been like that since day one with the diction because the shames attached you're like he's, he's hidden those things. Right. So we've always been like that. But these sorts of layers, these challenges that come into our life, like this, where it's so painful, like I was, I was modeling for old navy. And every time I went into my dressing, NBA change outfits, it was like during those five days weren't talking. I was like, I am going to our mauling all of this was going on. And I have. To go out there. And so, but it has been the most grow. It is just been one of those powerful like seasons or us and the truth is, we're not together right now. We don't have a title on us about to Asia for two or three months on my own. And we decided when we come back when I come back, we'll maybe try and figure something out put it's like let's slow motion we have to go motion. I just enjoyed being closer food for the road for first time like really closer now. There's nothing between us at all. No lies, no no secrets. There's just nothing and that is like I don't need a label. I have you like a regardless. No matter what happens if she chooses to be with somebody else, and that makes her happy genuinely and honestly I support that one hundred percent like I just wanna see her thrive. And the only way I can do that as if I make myself rive. And then hopefully we can decide to go together, but matter what happens like she's never not going to be my life on some level. So with that cares. What else happens everything else happens occurs? Beautiful. Yeah. Follow you where deal. So I'm at danika show on pretty much everything. So just my name and the my businesses model meals, which is bomb. Thanks guys. The meals they're not remodel that for human being. And who's your biggest fan Luke story? I love him. He's a dream rep so hard doesn't man. Ordering his model. Hold on. We are five minutes late because of me, and he's like, oh, God. I can't is, I'm so glad you guys are late. You could've been later. He's a north. It's so rude when people are in time. We were like five minutes. Forty five minutes. Billy. Great. Soon to be starting a new bachelorette party business. Okay. Can we just real quick? So we do a lot of like cooking classes, and parties and catering, and then we wanna change how people in recovery eaten on the kind of stuff. But so I do a lot of bachelorette parties lately. Right. And. Not yet, but we're thinking about. So I'm gonna start doing that. I have another friend of mine who is also really good-looking shift and we're going to create looking. Demographics. Shiffman bills. Food. Enjoy your strat married. I would. I'm totally okay with that. You know, I mean, the price has got to be right apron, only I think we would. Eight brand words spray pants, spray painted like spray painted. Joe bachelorette parties Italy, like how. Count. Orange county. So anyway, if you need us, that's our next project. It's in the works. Well, we're so proud of you and proud to know with stripping Dale. Chef in dance. It. You're really hit. Great. Domains of don't you dare try to scripts, avocado? It would be of academy direct here door. Varying. Ripeness is avocado cracked. It open. It was like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and. Mondays. Oh, god. Today. On tuesday. Yeah. As it turns out, it's really hard to, to manage, but I'm sure it can be done. Yeah. Well, hey, don't mean distress you out Craig? Craig. Guys. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, danika, and Billy for sharing your story for the first time we are honored pink you. Yeah. At Denic Brayshaw on Instagram and then culinary recovery on Instagram is Billy, and we'll see you on tour almost thirty podcasts dot com events for the dates, your podcast pro if you want to start a podcast, we would love to support you stay tuned for more news from us, and thank you always for supporting the podcast at means so much Lindsey, and I are able to do this. Yeah, you just got to be ourselves, and hopefully, inspire you to do the same. So he will catch you next time. Thanks for listening to buy.