Sugar Addiction with Mike Collins


Hey everybody welcome to the addiction. Unlimited podcast where you get to learn everything you want to know about addiction and recovery. I'm your host. Angela pugh co founder of kansas city. Recovery life coach and recovering alcoholic to learn more about me. You can listen to episodes zero on your podcast app or find us on the web at addiction. Unlimited dot com. All right everybody. Let's take a minute and welcome. Mike collins to the show. He's the founder of sugar addiction. Dot com you guys know about mike personal struggles with sugar and food and all that good stuff. So let's welcome mike to the show and learn a little bit about him. Mike thanks so much for coming on and doing this with me. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. It's a it's an honor. Emma love talking to the recovery community. I'm a recovering guy myself so it sugar. Sugar just happens to be part of the process for me. Anyway anthony true. It's a part of it for most of us. I think so money. You take a minute. Just tell the audience a little bit about you. Exactly what it is that you do. Yeah i mean like i mentioned. I've been recovery from drugs and alcohol for thirty five years. But i kinda. My mom was a sugar junkie. She loved the stuff and she always had a stash was but in started. Realize that you know my friends a They were gaining weight. Really fast. they days clean twenty pounds later. And then it started to get worse with diabetes in that kind of stuff. So i started looking at it my early days recovery and kind of realize that our and probably caffeine was a for the other and When i look back on it in hindsight it was reversed. I used sugar. Worst than a junkie. Before i started drinking drugging and then afterwards i just returned to base. I didn't really drink or i didn't use that much. Sugar didn't have as much of the sweet tooth on his drinking. But afterwards it just came like avenge with a vengeance. I i started to into together. I audited a few food meetings. And i started to realize that in i started doing studies. Now we're going back thirty years. I've been sugar free for thirty years. But there wasn't any real like there is now research in that kind of stuff. So i started studying it and i took it in the abstinence from that stuff years to and then i went on to have a regular business career and life and kids and raise a couple of sugar free kids which is another story if you wanna talk about it but and then about ten years ago. I grabbed the domain. Sugar addiction dot com. And i started putting out really good information but nothing do people would take it and run with it but about three years ago. I want almost fulltime. And we started having groups and and support stuff and that's when the thing took off at us when folks it really was the magic just like any kind of peer support or support meetings. That's what turned the tide. So that's been doing since. Then where do you find. People's biggest struggle with sugar quitting sugar. Even i mean. I think we all understand like how we miss. Use it or just like emotional eating you know. I definitely fall into that trap. What do you see as people's biggest struggle in walking away from it. yeah no. it's great crushes a fair question in the. I think it's social in a large to a large degree. It's been inculturated so deeply and there's no ramifications to give it to a baby at one. There's no gil there's no worry you can give a child this product so people don't really grass it's changing now in the last four or five years with the research people just don't and they can't envision like people coming into recovery of any kind. They asked the big question. Do i have to do this for the rest of my life is absence one hundred percent business required to change my world around sugar and i don't know if you want me to answer that question scare off your audience but the bottom line is you have to look at it and i think what's happening now is they're giving they are beginning to give credence and people in dusty church basements in the food. Recovery meetings have known this antic totally for years now sciences. proving that some folks like some folks. That i mean i i know. I can't have one glass of wine. And i know i can't have just one coke either because i'm off on a run at that point so people are treating it more like a substance use disorder than a diet or lifestyle changes at health. Yeah it is fascinating. Because i think i think some of those professionally what we call process addictions right like drugs and substance addictions they have a physical component. Right when i stop it. I'm gonna have a withdrawal process addictions. Are you know sex. Gambling is ordered eating that kind of thing. And i think a lot of those sometimes to me they see much more challenging because your triggers are everyday life things right like. It's not a big deal for me to not have a drink alcohol. I can avoid alcohol if i want to by avoiding sugar is far more coal. Because it's kind of in in so many things and certainly food riots like me a challenge to have a diction where you were kind of forced to moderate. Like i would die if somebody tried to make me moderate hall sure. Oh yeah. there's a lot of evidence. Obviously you knew probably known. A lot of people have tried that and the main thing seventy five percent of the food system. The food boxes bags can cellophane whatever they all have. Seventy five percent of the stuff on the shelves has sugar in it which is an incredibly high number. When you think about it and so there is. I i would. I would prefer to say a way to to to split apart whole food that you get from the outside of the grocery store fruits vegetables meats seafoods dairy whatever then the stuff in the middle of the grocery store and that is the the how you stay away from it. That's how you obtain abstinence and sadly for a lot of folks in me in the early days you have to learn how to cook a little bit. You have to get can't just can't risk it at a restaurant it can't and once you get a little bit of absence you start to realize that you have to. There is an eternal vigilance to it. Like any other yes. It's much like alcohol too in that in the everywhere and just like you said that it being socially acceptable in so deeply ingrained in us as people i mean. Sugar is some of my earliest memories. You know like baking pies with my grandmother and things like that some of my earliest memories in my life like that you know for sure i mean my mom genuinely interesting story on thinking that i'd tell but i don't think it's different than a lot of folks. Her mother died when she was eight years old and my grandfather had moved in with her sister in order to make ends meet whenever but her cousin her cousin owned gross the country store across the way so he made this little deal that anytime. My mother came across the road and want something from the candidate. Just give it to her and he would put on her account his account mcgrath account. So my mother. She genuinely believed that sugar was loved for show for children for her cell and grain in her and That's how we bonded with like you say Making chai remember to the state chocolate chip oatmeal cookies. I mean just i remember. The bowl is gigantic. You know and so yeah. I mean that's and i think a lot of us grew up the exact same way interesting to back on. You know i was a kid in the seventies and starting my mom and my father about this actually not very long ago in. I said you know. It's so strange to me. When i think back when i was a kid because we didn't eat healthy. You know what i mean. Everything the beginning of every meal started with some sort of grease. You know razor crisco or something. I mean we were not helping eaters. But the auditing is that i did not know hardly any overweight people when i was a kid right. Nobody was overweight. We didn't have overweight kids at school. Like it just was. It was almost non-existent and it made me very curious. Like what has changed at this point where obesity is such a big issue especially in the united states. And i think because everything we eight. When i was a kid was made from scratch. Were no preservatives. Even though it wasn't healthy cooking or healthy food necessarily it was just brash. What they which is a whole new market now called organic food. No you're right. I mean it's the same with me. I mean there was only one or two overweight kids in the school and You know the the the exact timing seventies and eighties is when high fructose corn syrup started and you can grasp it. It's they run parallel up into the right up until the right. As far as the girls of High fructose corn syrup in the diet and obesity rates and it was so hidden and people didn't know it and you know it just went right to your liver and creates fat basically and it's just probably can't be processed toes can't be processed anywhere in the body but deliver doesn't like burnoff it doesn't be digested repeat out. It has to be processed to deliver and its function is to create fat. You know so the scientists proving it out now. But we didn't know that in the seventies and eighties and that's why it was able to run wild and get where is yeah. I know there's a lot of manipulation that goes into the food industry. Also thank yeah. Things are created to have a certain effect on you in a certain effect on your brain in. Cause you to want more crave more by more. I get really yours. Hated with all the manipulation. The world like i get tired of just like every commercial ic- big pharma tobacco like of them. Like i just get so tired of the manipulation. I get frustrated with it. Almost that spite for me helps me eat better. All you need to have a little adamy you know and as you want an enemy. Here's one so right now. They literally have food scientists on the other side big campuses of food scientists whose job who put you inside an mr machine people inside and see how the product whatever their product is is lighting. Up the nucleus accumbens the brain reward chemicals dopamine serotonin the same things that affect alcohol era. When any kind of other drug is affecting the nucleus accumbens in saratoga does receptors. They're trying to figure out how to you. Know how to make it and the big food was bought up by the sugar. Companies in the eighty reverse. The sugar companies. The food company brought up by the tobacco companies who are understood this addiction paradigm and in getting them early and you know children's cereals and it's just it's kind of sad and i'm not all the ilk of that i wanna start a war with those guys because i'm always been grassroots but yes there you have to realize who's on the other side of the fence trying to feed you and your kids. Yeah i mean it does help to to just make better choices right because i like to view everything kind from a brain standpoint and how to do it hundred percent with my brain so it's sustainable long term and really teaching myself long-term habits lifestyle change. Can you speak a little bit. on now. Where sugar hits those same receptors that is alcohol the same receptors as alcohol and drugs. Do and what. The effect of not inst- absolutely i mean. This is really the core of by were. This is what i try. Everybody comes to me. They wanted food plan and exercise plan. Like look there's like one online. There's a lot of that stuff is really. The based science is the dopamine receptors are called down regulators their standout meaning. You have less of them from over use and abuse of drugs and alcohol. Sugar metaphor fateh means whatever cocaine. And the you're getting this. Big dopamine hit the big dopamine rush from whatever in your ingesting and we take a little bit of heroin. We take a little bit alcohol. We take a little bit of cocaine but we are pounding. Twenty to thirty teaspoons a day through our body. Your brain is never getting a break. It's always hounding the dopamine and when it wears off you have another when he wears off yet another coun- all day probably since the womb. And then he got. Serotonin norepinephrine gaba. These are your reward. Chemicals in the science is now very very clear that these things are affected. And that's the reason you can't quit or stay. Stop is because this is a substance use disorder. You need to recover from just like any other drug addiction and you need to be very serious about it. So i mean i can go on wax on science for the whole time but suffice it to say that the science in the last five years is exploded in this real in this realm and that it's very very real and that sugar is is people. Get on me when i say as powerful. It's the dose. Makes the poison right. You're not you're keeping this activated day in and day out twenty four seven every waking hour. You're ingesting sugar in some way so you just never get that break. So it isn't neuro toxin a poison and we need to look at it like that. I i hate being the anti candyman. I hate being to change. Everybody's gotta change in entire culture for three hundred years that's been integrated with this from birth to death in every celebration but when you look at the science when you look at the reality of where we ended up then you have to make this conclusion and the people in recovery you in think have a little bit of a leg up right that they've already kind of passed through this process. But then you know. I've got people five ten fifteen twenty years sober that they just never put two and two together with the sugar so i have to kind of be a little bit more forceful whereby i think just like alcohol. It's i think conceptually it is really challenging to get to that place that because it seems overly dramatic right. When i think i could never have sugar again. It just seems insane right in the same way with alcohol when i started realizing it really had a hold on me and it was unhealthy. I remember staring at a drink in a glass in thinking. What the heck dude. It's a liquid glass. Like who said i can't control it in conceptually. That's really challenging to grasp that thought but i think as you get deeper deeper into it in. It's also different. Because i think most of us have certain things that we can walk away from pretty easily and then you'll have a thing or two. That is just so difficult. You can't quite grasp it To the other side exactly and that's what it is. We started talking about at the beginning of stat inculturation for three hundred years. It's like it's just weaved into the fabric of society and what we didn't put into together as we came through it. Is that a lot of diseases. Mental and physical are caused by people have just relegated to aging. They think that because this is our society's how we move through our society that that we're going to age square. we're going to become sinoe. We're gonna diabetes. We're gonna get dementia. We're going to get all our eyes are going to go bad all of this kind of stuff and it's just not true it really literally just not true in a lot of cases and they're right now so much science reversal of diabetes just by diet literally eyesight get better skin getting better brain find getting better weight of course look. I don't even hardly even talk about weight. But that's just Beautiful byproduct of it. yeah. I read somewhere longtime ago. I don't even remember what. Why is this one phrase just always stood out to me. It said sugar feeds cancer in. I love you mentioned. The guy's name is louis canley okay. It doesn't work at corner now. He has a lab at cornell. Like the can't lab at cornell right and he's been on three of my summit so it's quit sugar summits right. I interviewed all the biggest guys in the world right. And he's like. Can you say that again. Dr kelly i need it for sound Sugar causes cancer. Michael sugar causes it one more time to get this out. Sugar causes can't right so it's not me not me just experiencing it with people in in whatever it's cornell harvard. These guys are telling me they. That's true what you said is absolutely true. That's a great thing to keep top of mind when i catch myself wanting to slide back into the trap of sugar. It's quite a journey. You know really figuring it all out and figuring out how it sits in your lifestyle in just like you're saying i think it's so similar to alcohol again in that way our that it so woven into our society in everything that we do in it. Is this form of connection in bonding. I mean it's every day. And i watch my mom with my niece and nephew who are little biddy in as soon as they walk in the house. It's just immediately to cookies. You want some nat. I'm like stop with the sugar. Create little sugar bowl rusher law but sugar is love. it's so true in we view alcohols. so much. The same way it is it's connection in bonding and camaraderie and fun and mony cells ceremony. It's all ingrain ceremonial process. That it makes you feel the event feel a little bit more elevated right. It's like you're less stress you get with the family. There's a little bit sometimes. I don't know what your there. There's a little bit of stress and sheffield a little bit better a little bit more lax. It's i really believe it's a perfect anti-stress drug problem is is that it turns on you at some point. And then you're just trying to fight off withdrawals like any drug. Yeah yup for sure and this is something noticed too in my own journey right with all foods but a lot sugar once. I eat some right. That as we say in twelve step world the phenomenon of craving kicks in that is a very powerful tool for me. Also because i think about i had this shift in mindset around this a couple of years ago now in that in recognizing how sugar makes me feel after right kind of aftermath and immediately makes me tire i mean within twenty minutes. I need to go lay down nap. You know it just drains. My energy usually have you. Gill will kick in at some point later that day and it kinda messes with my mood. You know sugar makes me sad. Absolutely so i think about that stuff right when i think. Oh because i love gummy everything. Ice cream in gummy candy are like my nemesis. I'll think start rationalizing in my head all the reasons. It's okay to get a bag of gummy bears in stop and go. Okay wait a minute. How's this going to be the rest of the day. Like i don't have time to feel bad. I don't have time for it out. wait you know. But that's a really good a really good deterrent often. Times in thinking about the mood part of it and that craving heart. It's just not worth it. You know it gets just not worth it to even start. Maybe you're doing the whole recovery thing you know. Think it all the way through to the end. And i am the exact same reaction like in the last thirty years. I've had probably ten fifteen accidental stations. Meaning like somebody's swore. There's no sugar in the salad dressing. Or whatever and i'm like when it happens. I had this like to martini buzz. Like i'm like lit up like a christmas tree. The better than ever and i learned to go with that twenty or thirty minutes right because i know what's company which is at the end of that. Neil i'm still going to be starving. I'm gonna be hungry at the end of the beautiful neil with this whenever beautiful conversation then i'm going to start drought not before i on the way home. Maybe in the car. And then the next day i'm gonna be blue. It'd be set remedy to nap later. But it's at lunchtime. You know what i mean. It's like the exact processes you describe. I go through exactly and sad thing is true one hundred percent and that's really need now. Here's the thing and this is important is important in the recovery is important. In the withdraws its weren't in the process is that it's not you. It's not your mental state it's actually a physical manifestation of a pounding of the dopamine. So you're getting a over exaggerated release of dopamine and serotonin northern every gaba. Your brain chemicals are just pounded manually. Manually physically didn't go for a walk. It didn't have sex. You didn't have a hog it. In not yoga. You counted them manually with a substance and you push them all out and you you overdose basically and then all of a sudden you don't have them to be even and so now you gotta you gotta wait till they almost catch up again. You know you gotta get a good night's sleep you gotta hydrate you gotta get some good food and sometimes it takes twenty four hours. And that's if you're very healthy if you come in to sugar recovery with like a big bad ass habit. You're like that for weeks. You're not feeling good. You're depressed for weeks. It takes a while to get back. It's like pause. I'm sure you've heard of injury talked about it. It is a true post acute withdrawal symptom of sugar and caffeine that lasts for sometimes longer than thirty or sixty days. It takes a while to come back. It's an adonia just like we talk about under percent okay. I was just being dramatic. No no people think it's guilt. They think that it's there they didn't. They weren't strong enough. They weren't successful especially people that don't have a recovery background like they're like all i screw up by. I can't stay absent. I can't stay off the flower and they actually think that that feeling you got is guilt. Like they're guilty. But it's not it's a an actual physical downturn because you just push manually all of your feel good and you felt good pretty good in the good of sugar is not like a high cocaine or you know whatever it's like you're just feel right with the world for a little bit for thirty minutes right and whatever you're doing is better the little relation you know your your your lunch or your whatever it is. You're doing just this. And then all of a sudden it starts to go downhill really fast stamp and i was still. I don't have so much. I've the guilt at this stage of the game. Because i've been working on my whole foods staying in general for a long time and now i'm disciplined enough that if i do have something sugar like i'm pretty okay with it you know and i'm i'm pretty good with my rules in managing that so side to have it. It's a big thought process. And i give myself that permission so i don't have a ton of that now if i go crazy in have some to three four days in a row then i will definitely start to have that gil like. Oh my gosh what is happening with the hecker you doing you win there. This is how you wanna feels not wanna be an after. Go through that star the. Yeah it's just been. It's been an incredible journey. And i see people in my facebook group. All the time commenting about you know going to twelve step meetings in there always being donuts and cookies every once in awhile somebody pop in and be like. I'm three days sober in. What the heck is going on with all his craving for sugar sugar eating sugar. And i'm like well that's the least your worries right now. Just get through the alcohol part and be okay. It's a it's a it's a. it's a step down substance. Used as i call. You know to harm reduction i mean. I'm sure you're familiar with harm reduction. It really is and it's twice in the big book in sugar is a good substitute right at. It is and that's what people turn to. But then that'll turn on you right and the same thing exactly the process that you're describing for yourself personally is what we advocate in a way. It would be nice if they walk. Everyone walked in and never had sugar again. That's not realistic right. And so. I was an abstinence based guy for my whole recovery until the opioid crisis came along and i realized he had to be frigging alive to recover so i loosened up on. Suboxone this kind of thing and the same thing here. Look you gone through however many years you've been thinking about it seriously and you've had whatever but you've healed each time so you've had you practice harm reduction in your in your in your pursuit to be healthier mentally physically and there's nothing wrong with that i think that's it's evolving for me in our were that that may need to beat to happen in order to bring this to a larger audience. Because no i get a lot of pushback even from recovery people that one hundred percent absence is a possibility in their life in the early days. Right but what is the goal of harm reduction right. The goal of harm reduction eventual absence. If you can get there if you wanna get that right and so. That's kind of the trajectory that we're taking and it's it's okay and we have to be the ones who give that permission because people tried this one hundred percents at don't word. It's it's just too hard in society physically. Whatever in their family. Law oftentimes the only person in the family. Who's going on this venture and sometimes you know most of its strangely enough women because they're probably smarter but they know they're cooking and they're buying for the kids and the husband and the husband's not born kids aren't on board so there it's a little kind of lonely situation if you don't have support without on. Yeah so often in even in extended family you know. I mean it's not like you're gonna all of a sudden have a sugar free christmas in everybody's gonna show up free party. Nobody show alcohol-free when nobody showed it is so yeah it is hard it is a journey. I know wanting. That has helped me a lot in since. I've been sober for alcohol right in in struggling with all the other addictions because i have most of them just two of us figuring them all out. I know it has really helped is once. I shifted my intent. Right wants everything wasn't about. Losing weight are all about how i looked. When my intent shifted to really being a healthier human and wanting to be better to my body and and make a true lifestyle change for the long term it was although short term goals. Reiten shifted my perspective in my mindset in a way the did just completely different than it has ever been before now i like it. I like it and it's it's wise. You know. I think that you know as it related to sugar instead like the addiction to dieting. It's like this is not a short term. Fix game can't fix it in the short term. And you have to have your eye on the long term so i agree because i want it to be sustainable. You know nothing is worse than the yoyo saying. I don't wanna be trapped in a yoyo saying anything in my life right like i want to be able to conquer things in milan to the next thing instead of just being constantly up and down in stuck in that discomfort in. That's really what it is. my listeners. Laugh at me. Because i talk about intrinsically really lazy and i do a lot of stock in -ccomplish a lot in a day but intrinsically i'm lazy person in. I do not have the energy to be uncomfortable all the damn time when i have an issue i got to figure out the solution to move on because i just don't to lazy to be unhappy can recommend a couple of things one. You should listen to a podcast. It's gonna sunset but there's a lot episode called the joy of procrastination s nation very simply says that if you're feeling lazy fascinating about the recovery world you hear a lot in marijuana uses this A motivational syndrome and sugar literally causes a motivational syndrome. And they talk about it but hasn't really doesn't get much press even in the marijuana world anymore but the sugar definitely causes a motivational syndrome. Because you can get the benefits of a walk. You could get the benefits of a run or a yoga class by just eating something you can get the dopamine push the then. You don't have a motivation. Do you know you can't get up off the couch. So it really is a i would worry about it being in about being intrinsically 'cause i understand and it makes perfect sense to me and one of the things i like to say. This is a little off topic but as human beings as animals as mammals. We have three six that is food sacks and conservation of energy right conservation of energy is like the one of the main tenants of any animal in the animal kingdom right and this work ethic is something that was some learn as probably a process eviction of some sort like we're fiction work addiction right. It's probably some like it is. It's a human construct that is not like akin to our act. And i think maybe what is happening is you are becoming more in tune with the person you were supposed to be than the person that society was trying to make you. Just my two cents. Yeah it's interesting. Well you know. Because i get really mad at being like the dishwasher and another one by listeners. Love to tease me about. Because i hate that damn dishwasher because goes away all go away and that's my little laziness right because restrated dayton's like angela. Four minutes do just do. It is so knob deal but i get so mad about him because i just don't want to. We're on the same page with that one on the same page of that one. I and i have learned that the discipline of almost canada's then like chop wood carry water thing. You get more freedom when you when you like. Lean into those small disciplines. It's weird but i blew me on the worst at that. that's only intellectual. I don't have that emotionally yet. That's only from reading. I if i can tell you. I was practicing. Be a different story. I still hate the dishwasher. It is fantastic at love what you just said about the freedom of it because it's so true just like the freedom of sobriety right if i wouldn't have ideas how much easier it wise to just drink. I would a hundred years earlier right. I had no idea how much more symbol my life would be calm. And in how drama. Free right. Because then i got to learn how to make better choices and pick people better to be in my life and yeah you just. It gets very drama free in really nice. Now it's so true. It's that one thing. Absence changes a lot. And it's the same those all those little disciplines. Whatever they are said tell us a little bit about sugar addiction dot com in what happens there. Sugar addiction dot com really is a community more than anything we do have information and we have challenges and quizzes and all that kind of good stuff but you know we have facebook groups and we have all that kind of stuff and it's about early adopters. If you call canaries in the coal mine people who are interested in would be still listening at this point hundred. Podcast like this. They're interested in possibly joining a crowd of people who have kinda decided. At least i call it a scratch test. And it's like you know if you went to the allergist scratch paper pollen ragweed Well you're doing your own scratch test by giving yourself a your adulting into ninety days of sugar free. Just check it out and then if you want to go back if you go back just do one thing at a time like split test one thing at a time. Just try some monk fruit or try some whatever some coconut flour. Whatever it is but it's the process where you're not alone. You've got people that are doing it with you. They understand that you've decided this to for your life. Whatever maybe it's wait. Maybe it's brain house. diabetes whenever and as i said i gave away the best information on the planet for seven years and a few people took it and ran with it but three years ago we started doing groups and meetings and all that kind of stuff and had built a culture around people who don't use sugar. They're not normally in their family. They're not normally in their community so they gotta do it online. So that's that's pretty much the nutshell. I love that scared again. Staff and sugar addiction dot com. Can't people find your facebook group by the same name. If they go on facebook in search we have a page for sugar addiction Do there in we come up. I on google Not gula loss but facebook for sure back if you type it in in sugar addiction Detox you in. I will link that in the show notes for everybody to say you know how to find my. We're going to do some fun stuff together in early. Twenty twenty one. I'm going to jump in one of these challenges in check it out. Make that commitment. That's awesome french my listeners. To do it with me so it will be fun. We're gonna finalize those details nice. The challenges fondants thirty days of me coming into your inbox with a little reminder. And then you're obviously there's an elevated platform. Obviously you've got zoom meetings and Private forums in on facebook that kind kind of stuff so and people just they just think they they all the surveys and everything. They needed to the accountability. They needed the support. They needed the comradery. And that's what turned the tide zone. Well mike thank you so much for coming on here doing this with me a minute. Ask my last question. Favorite question. eminent shifted for you. Wait is your favorite thing about being a sugar free person. Oh what a great question. I never got that one before it is the is. The mental freedom is actually. Is the mental clarity if you will. One of the main ingredients is the Were the main benefits. Is the your brain fog clears up. And i watched my mom die. Alzheimer's my father too. But my mother like a real sugar junkie. And i watched the ending years. And i've seen all the research and studied all rain guys and by accident. Our little summit this coming up is turning into this brain science even all the hardest coaches are talking about it right. The heart s coaches santos my brain. Anyway i just. I i have all my fun in my brain. I don't know if that makes sense. But i just love to play with ideas. I love to play. I like to talk to smart people like you and people on the summit and stuff and so i. My mother was a brilliant woman and to watch her like deteriorated. That way to know. Now that there may be a correlation. I'd just want to take that risk. You know it wasn't way it wasn't how it wasn't diabetes. It was mental clarity so and brain health. So that's what i like her. Fact thank you for that and for everybody out there. I will link all the things to find mike in the show notes and you can get all that good information you know where to find me and i hope you're having a fantastic day on the next. You've reached the end of another great episode of the addiction. Unlimited podcast candid and honest conversation about addiction and recovery be sure to visit us at addiction. Unlimited dot com to join the conversation and access show notes and links everything. We talked about. Love this episode. Please take thirty seconds to subscribe rate and review on items to help us improve and give you the information you want. Thanks for listening. See you next week

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