Susannah Scaroni, Two-Time U.S. Paralympian On Wheelchair Racing, the TCS NYC Marathon, + Training and Race Day Nutrition | Long Slow Distance


You're listening to a fit plus love production really like Orig- like I love the whole race but I really liked the star it so long that you can kind of I don't know in your kind of alone a little bit because people while competing in marathon around the world including this week's TCI's New York City Marathon Twenty nineteen on today's Podcast Earth Honors About Training attrition racing and more today's gaps Susannah scrutiny is a two-time Paralympian on her way to her third matt ritual on Roca Noon hydration salts stick and novice organics long slow distance is a seasonal podcast series puree we've focused on endurance sports featuring athletes coaches and industry experts offering a deep dive into training technique racing insight and advice the long slow distance and my desire to be fast I decided to embrace the concept and make it fun I will be conversing with runners triathletes swimmers nutritionist our Olympic Team USA for Tokyo twenty twenty she is the marathon world record holder at one thirty forty one from the grandma's marathon and of course the mind altering concept of long slow distance also known as LSD the series is inspired by my training for the two thousand so I thought I'd do have focused series on one of my favorite topics long slow distance hi thanks for tuning into the money on the podcast and series long slow distance in K. and in her spare time she is finishing her masters at the University of Illinois where she is studying to become a registered dietitian weird mental space where it's like you're going up a hill there's no spectators around you have a marathon ahead of you New York City and you kind of get a chance I seek out Masumzadeh about where her passion athleticism and sports began she dials me into the world of wheelchair racing for training team and strategy is Marny sell up thanks for tuning into the new money on the move podcast series long slow distance the series is fueled by several of my favorite brands doctors and more if you listen to Marnie on the move on the regular you know I often get into the weeds with Marnie on the move endurance athlete guests about their training and racing on induced and holds the ten K world best at twenty two point twenty two which she said at New York roadrunners men's it is super exciting feeling to be running and living in New York City right now earlier this fall I caught up with a few pro athlete eighteen New York City Marathon born from my decade of training for running and triathlon events and parallel with my love hate relationship of doing started here all of your nerves are with you going up a hill and it flakes there's nobody there's no people because it's just the bridge and like the sun is rising it's my favorite part I feel like it's just like this like mine zone where you're just like it's like time stops you're just kind of in this and I'm your host Monticello it's TC s New York City Marathon Week in New York City and you can feel the energy everywhere you 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you liked what you hear leave us a review on apple teasing good your APP scroll through the episodes Click on Reiter Review Organics is offering twenty five percent off your first purchase with the code move twenty-five upon checkout head over to their website novice organic dot com thanks for apparently so I was injured when kindergarten but it wasn't I didn't really notice a major discrepancy until I was in third grade when I showed up playing basketball and it was just like one of those list I was in a wheelchair my community was tiny and supportive and one of the coolest things that they did for me that I realize now was I was never treated enzymes for post workout or even just for breakfast I also used their Maka for adapt degen's Komo Komo extra vitamin C ANCA cow they also have an tryout tons of different sports there's rock climbing wheelchair racing basketball tennis and all kinds of sports but I was introduced to the wheel everyone and the like that would like and they weren't in wheelchairs correct but that just shows how much I was going to play sports like I where did athletics begin for you and how did your journey you get started I would say so before I was in gymnastics and I'm from really so it was just the culture to be really everybody was excited to play basketball when we got to third grade we got to play basketball for as a school so of Illinois that I looked up to that I had seen a different camps that I'd gone to and then even at some of the smaller like road races you may never even learn about it so I would see them at actual races and then I would see them at camps that I went to so it was pretty and then fortunately in fourth grade shriners hospital sent out mass invitation to all the patients that there'd be a giant sports thing where you could come and just like every other third grader in my class I also was the kind of play but I will say that was kind of that was definitely the first experience that I continue to do basketball and built erasing all the way through my senior year and then just focused on racing with a lot of people at the time that were participating in the was to get to learn actual basketball drills and skills with no difference like it was just the skill focusing on and everybody else is in a wheelchair and oh I didn't even think about I didn't even know wheelchair basketball or anything like that I just wanted to play basketball everyone else but then I really did not enjoy that so I told myself I was never gonNa play again marathon yet there's a little buzz that you might win oh my Gosh I would absolutely love that will definitely be trying so tell me about the course our way to practice twice a week and then I loved it and that sort of how my introduction sports started like and then to adaptive sports itself will be requiring you to push hard and work hard just because it's usually cold and windy and then you have hills at the very start so it was almost like there was no wheelchair involved at that point it was so cool and I it just completely reignited my love sports so I your basketball team that was up in spokane Washington and they were like hey like you should totally comes when our team it'd be amazing to have you and I was like no way I'm never claimed best again like I absolutely hated that but my mom on the other hand was like okay absolutely she'll be there that's awesome things where you like you you you pick up on like everybody was supposed to pass me the ball and like it took me longer to get across the court and then I felt like I was always just like catching up horses but its grueling and everyone's being under the same conditions which is Kinda nice too yeah not just the person pulling a draft it's and to me just like see what's out there 'cause we don't as you know I'm sure we don't really have on television and unless you're lucky like I was having adapted sports program somewhere nearby that I did growing up there were pretty good fields of adult wheelchair racers their time so I always had role models up to which I can't say enough how much is being able to buy psychologically stay focused when I'm getting exhausted and got us the thing word I would say when I started I was also lucky in that there were it was a pretty established program I had I had a lot of athletes at the university yeah it sorta motivating I like working hard and so I like really loved that course it's not as technical or tactical as some of the other flatter he joined their basketball team and then as soon as track starting in the spring I joined the racing team so two things are involved like I have a really great family that were willing to drive up an I love that force a marathon is not a marathon a marathon Amarah like the every course so different in New York City I would say is one of actes against my own will and then it was exactly the reverse of the year before like I just I still remember the first braswell practice thinking how three the most physically challenging ones because regardless of where you are in relationship to feel like two other athletes the core wheelchairs and term yeah equipment that you could use to raise US yeah you're coming to compete in the two thousand nineteen New York City and but it does mean that the people behind you are going the same speed is you and working a lot less hard so it really matters marathon distance you're not climbing up a hill you if you're pulling a draft or if you are trying to make an attack or something like that you might use the same sort of bio mechanical skills but yet the women we are pretty good etiquette and when the person in the front is ready to pull over the next person starts bowling live from my started I would say yeah I think what the major difference between now and then is is the the technology has definitely improved in terms of the at least lightly shielded you off like a Peleton or yeah okay at least in the women's division we definitely switch off it's different amends I've watched the Tokyo marathon like they had filmed everything and I was really surprised like it's not the same store is to do that and so we just execute skillful lot and for any courses you can kind of us something however we will try to do because of that they offer a really nice kind of wind break if you're behind one so we drafting a really high level which is where it's GonNa wear out other people to catch back up on like they would have not gotten worn out on Chicago for example right do you train they can conserve energy but New York there's also not as much drafting in New York City Marathon because you start on a long mile long incline it because we have world championships as well in November and then Boston in London awesome and so I believe the Paralympic team next year right and then you go down while so in wheelchair racing that also separates the field really quickly because some people are better climbing coasting and it's just we'll be doing Chicago New York City and then Tokyo I might do Oita Marathon which is in November I'm not entirely sure at the end so you haven't take that into account in how you try to conserve energy during the race it's just harder and some courses to wear somebody out for example in my opinion anyway he doesn't specifically say this regularly but from what I've observed we work on a lot of different skills for every single course because even if that's a line the lone goal yeah that's my goal and actually Chicago Marathon is our marathon trials okay so that's my major oh a few more hills than usual I think before Boston and New York are also going to compete in Boston as well yet what racist do you have coming up I right now we've gone into are like prep for Chicago so we are we're doing six days a week and then eleven all sometimes as opposed to more like two hundred meter intervals when we're just trying to pick up I was just on the track this morning Oh nice yes so are we because you can have unlike and enable by running race you can have somebody that's potentially conserve a lot of energy even at the end of a marathon printing pastor breath held in the middle and you finish on hills so it just it pushes you passer limits and that's partly why love it one of my strengths I think all right now is to just be able to do my very best Chicago that I can and try to make the team they're awesome so what's your training like we I instead of like okay lifted forty pound dumbbells last week and you got all sides like forty five this week we'll go like okay what wait can you lift at a things quickly so our strength and conditioning as trying to become explosive even if it's not a superhighway and just kind of keeping our orange understand it to interpret any race to so in wheelchair racing are chairs on three wheels and there's two in the back one in the front and we'll do interval from a track and then another day will go for nineteen miles out on the road and kind of shift that in my opinion I feel like we just rotate through those certain speed Ooh that day and so even if it's less or higher today doesn't matter saw relative to what you are that day and it's also geared trying to move everybody having to work hard up this hill we'll talk to me about that because you can draft yes and some major difference in it's a huge part of the sport it's Eh there's just like a line of wheelchair athletes in a row and the person in the front is taking all of that wind kind of rock and everybody behind them is olders really healthy right and it's almost like like in in a sense it's almost like if you were a swimmer I mean at that level yeah and what we do a little bit we do strengthening twice a week but it's most of it is honestly shoulder preservation and mobility instability which is the march what we do all year except for doing more tracks specific things will bring the length of the intervals down and then do more of them and then you do a ton of strength training preventing overuse of your shoulder eight if you can think of pitchers swimmers yum that's a lot of wheelchair Thurs need to right now we'll do intervals on the track one day and those are drawn out intervals when we're going into marathon season so what I was like twelve hundred meter intervals worked on our shoulders then we have adjusted our strength and conditioning to be only based off of velocity so what that means is concessions a week so to those are two days or three hundred two days and so what we typically do is kind of rotate have spread out already but you still got all of this energy like you know it's like a mental Jambalaya because you have like you know there's a hard race coming up for a long ways but you just like specifically for the course as you get closer to the race like you'll go out and do hills and and and Trent yeah a little bit our coaches philosophy is presenting percival annoy am also sponsored by top end wheelchair and I am on t t top end as well so I'm sort of like dual what's what's the name of your team that you're on so University of Illinois has a wheelchair athletics program and the Racing Team is a club sport so I do automation and I think partly learning more about nutrition and kinesiology continues for me like just like logically keeping ended about it because not only do I love doing it and have continued to learn how to do a better better better but I learned like college I went to a school in Montana where I was again like the only person wheelchair and I have my recent terror with me like I didn't know if assuming everyone is so different and I think mine was more of an organic sort of like progression because I didn't come to annoy the first two years foyer who like we the home of the US Paralympic national wheelchair racing training sites is year so all of the national team the muscle physiology level and like from through diet like how other things can impact sports. And I think I'm still just like someone that's Lina Love wheelchair racing and win in the second year when the coach here's Ellen Oi contact and said they had a full ride scholarship opportunity more seriously and I was excited for the adventure like at that point I was just thinking wow let's see what it's like to do Organiz training with an actual team I didn't ever record distance or anything and then found out that I was doing like twenty milers every day when I trained so I I just intrinsically it takes a little bit more like you do reach even higher I think you have to really be competitive too and I it's something I've been learning and developing it's like it's something I can tell him I think I'm getting closer to being that way yeah but honestly for me it's just been something I I for the most part are live and train here so yes I have crate training partners here that I worked with what was the point in your life where you're like I want I was like Oh my gosh that was sort of like Whoa is this something I love enough that I would just completely go back to what I did as a kid and like do it doing what you do and also just like doing it at different levels right I mean yeah absolutely completely you don't feel it yeah it's like that do-or-die take my recreational love of training and sports and become a professional athlete yeah that's really a question I think would ever go anywhere else like an any farther but I was still a training every single day of the week on my own just because I loved it and moment we're putting it all out there and you just don't know what's going to happen when you put it all out there but you just want to win yeah so that's something I've not been great on my life but really enjoyed doing and I love working hard so I you can sort of mask the lack of competitiveness if you like those things sometimes but minded about doing it right it sounds like it it's not so much for me about winning the race the bulk of my career hasn't been I would say because I've been doing it alone and I just continue to still love it I was fortunate I fit in with the team and I got here and that helps a lot to maintain it's like you know and not only are you this incredibly talented athlete you're also pursuing a master's degree in becoming I'm from that side to like really want something it's true it's like you do something that makes a difference between like winning when you want to win the marathon like I think there is at that point when you're like you have to sort of think a little bit beyond yeah just really want it I know a Master's program we'll be starting a study soon let's actually looking at carbohydrate intake of wheelchair marathoners and sort of trying to find some more information adjuster Dietitian yeah talk to me a little bit about that and also I want to hear about your fuelling so are you in you're in the Masters Program I am I'm doing on extended Master's program so I'm in my third year of my master's program and part of that is as you know like I have a lot of competition intricate things about nutrition that can boost performance and every sports a little bit different in there hasn't been a lot of research on wheelchair racing and enduring off the air and so my school and advisor really supportive in letting me sort have do things at a slower pace so I am Anna my third in about what's a better amount of carbohydrates to have during a race because as I have gone along in my program I realized there are these really in auto racing and it's kind of a weird sport in and of itself anyways like we said it's not traditional endurance it's not completely a sprint short distances either it's a little bit of a hybrid so I am enjoying learning what those pieces are wise something might need different nutrition rick weapon as an athlete to have really good nutrition and know your body and to understand because everybody's different yeah and it's one of those things it's so there's many different messages so what is the best thing for you to eat like what your nutrition like when you're training and leading up to the race and then on race day yeah the rest of the Pera wheelchair racers out there because it is a growing sport I have always been interested in nutrition. Yeah I mean I think secret it's like your seat it's like a decent kind of carbohydrates and I and then something smallest carbohydrate in the morning and then after the throughout the day I bring that value down like right before a workout just because you are also in racing sitting on your stomach so most well the way I think of nutrition as like I think of it in transit recovery so I like thinking about it that way because when I am you're thinking about recovering we know recover for protein however if you're a nothing that has like eleven training sessions that week if you don't have protein in that recovery meal win but also the masters part of school because we can actually investigate it a little bit and hopefully some information that will help but we're not not only for me but for with high intensity intervals added so to me that tells me carbohydrates argument with the primary fuel source for route yes and it's just when you start thinking about what those calories are coming from is where it's nice to have someone sort of saying hey you use mostly Kara hi your body uses different fuels will be dictated by protect your size you're doing so since we do right for example we're doing a lot of longer-distance things your act like you're exercising it moves to the edge of the cell so it's ready to take in more sugar and then after about thirty minutes it goes back inside itself so the reason you can you know within thirty minutes after an intense workout or is that I do that's another thing so there are recovering windows for different macronutrients what we know about protein though is like the actual window is a lot longer than was originally thought to be about twenty four hours okay that's good one of my muscles it's going on the thirty minute range is really for carbohydrates though because there's a transporter on yourself then because a lot of those activities so I just ensure that I I don't like cartload but I am sure that I'm getting sorts of like all sorts of carbohydrates that's good for us as if as athletes you can store as much barbara hydrate in your muscles your glycogen if you can really boost those levels is the training that morning going to be what is next like what later on in the day and what was yesterday and what does the rest of the week look like because the way as well because you need them to do the exercise but the back end after whom so for me when I think about is okay what it seems like a lost opportunity it's not gonNa hurt you to have it in thirty minutes so I like to have it there anyways because it's going to only help the continuous remodel and in marathon season I also like to add the protein there too because when I eat again I'm also going to have protein and carbohydrates but that's racing because we can draft we can also more often so there will be a lot of attacks and a lot of searches and things like that so in order to get most of the race so it's just why is that different is it different muscles because of the intensity level okay and what I mean so it's just this continuous like that your body's always wanting some free amino acids to us and you do the cal and his calories in calories out workout like I use a lot of carbs do it always make sure my recovery Neil has carbohydrates and then also protein in them so do you protein like people can't eat quite as big of a meal maybe more training so I that's where my when I'm thinking about dinner comes in like okay what are we doing tomorrow I need to make sure that's the bottom line when you're racing right when you on yesterday I mean whatever you're burning you are putting back in yeah exactly so the calories in calories that's ideal you don't have to eat as much because you've got more stored so I try to make sure that I'm having carbohydrates in that thirty minute window and then no matter how much you eat the day before it's like Oh yeah store for any sport yes exactly and that's sort of where that thirty minute window comes in is because you can actually agree to do that marathon so you're you still use your muscles like it was your muscles working so you WanNa have protein there you also need to make sure you're having carbohydrates and then slightly increase those storage so we don't have a lot of stars but you can slightly increase it with training and with eating in that thirty minute range I'm so those how many messages out there that it could be like I'm just grateful that I don't have that as one of the things that causes me anxiety what do I what should I be like what's the best thing the because I usually think about okay what do I need to have now after that bout of exercise that I did and what's cool about that to me is that meant that all those things needed to be there have time as ah which is excellent because you're still saving carbohydrates that are in your muscles so that you can even go faster when you have to it's interesting yeah it's a really are really good things to do but then just realizing your body's getting better and better and better at using fat because you can go longer and the more you train the faster you can go and still use liberal hydrate storage got it and so the more the more you train you can actually raise that level up to where you're going faster but you're still than anybody runner will use because we have to go up to a really high intensity more often than they will go so front runner table Buddy marathoner use a lot of fat as well to hide us all of your Carter hydrates probably and you tapped into your fat storage for urging that quickly you can only carbohydrates fats just takes a little bit longer to get the energy to the muscle right so in military thing we're going to use more carbohydrates like you're trained your body that it can use fat so efficiently that you're going even faster than you were previously so then all those carbohydrates that are going really fast they're the only ones fast enough to recruit to actually get you going more quickly so your heart rate is up now you have more because Oh storage and that's why in most people's marathon they're going to also want to eat something or drinks with carbohydrates because say you're you're putting in more if you add intervals and do your training one way to increase that so you kind of tap into your carbohydrates stores which are the ones that you have a limited amount of the better your body will get existing fat and its way to preserve carbohydrates because they are limited like I said you only really have with in your muscles a couple of different workouts that I did I would say myself before the workout and after the workout so I could tell how many calories I was burning during certain workout so that yeah I knew what I basically needed to eat it was for one of my first seventy point three distance triathlons that I did and I think that was one of the best things I ever did but you're not going all out so this is something you could do for an hour right okay so can also have a conversation or is it like I do hardly training so I'm like one four calls to kind of alternating between fast twitch and slow twitch exactly yeah so if you think about it in those terms the fast twitch muscles level mode that we do and hopefully you still have them in there you can spend more at the end is that natural for people do you think or is it to burn fat or is that something that you have to learn how to do that they're the amount of energy that they have to use it they use is limited you only have out on the tank whereas doc you can't have a conversation okay so that might be right that's roster threshold of where you're burning fat two where you're tapping into your limited because you know in every sport is different so I know right you know you know swimming obviously you cannot eat anything because it's kind of hard animals in the race you're going faster if you continuously drink some beverage with carbohydrates in that you can then have even more fuel for those type two muscles the amount of Arba hydrates are the gas for those fast muscles you have in your body is typically done with after about an hour minutes in advance rate depends John I mean I would say yes I would say the one beer having at the beginning yeah at that be at least doc orders Sushi Bento gas kind of depending on how hard you're going right that's the other thing right but running you just swam a certain one gram per hour for able bodied runners we're hoping to figure out that for wheelchair racers well I did this test for triathlon where I for like a week fairly you're gonNA hire pacing used to go and it feels more comfortable while you're still Jesse's fat because your fat storage will last so long and then Menendez draw comes up between her knees and then you can drink at as you go I typically put about like sixty grams of carb into yeah right yeah I think you might be the most similar and then no kidding you know and then like on the bike you could basically have like an entire sandwich and like eat whatever you want like a pretty long distance yeah now training for the marathon it's so different and like my stomach gets upset really easily jack like if you ever I don't know it's it's variable but I would say with confidence that I probably drink around forty grams of carbohydrates going to be a lot different for the majority of iovine runners who are going to be out there for several hours and so you're the other liaison to and that lawn so yeah yeah yeah same here in the one forty range in your feeling comfortable but you can't talk unlike we get we definitely do that wheelchair racing as well I was thinking show you a graph right now when you're going like you're going for harder than a job that's where it's individual what people's stomachs tolerate I know athletes who bring like white rice cakes that they make they they're the only ones that can get you up to that speed but then you go back down and you recover and then you go back up hard again and so it's almost like using your fast twitch muscle twenty minutes and so how is it for you like as a wheelchair athlete like at what kind of fuelling are you doing on the day of the race while for great question you get a lot more efficient as at it and train okay so everybody going through their training up to the marathon the more you train action to my camelback but I I'm terrible that I don't really measure it every single time which is partly why I wanted to the study with running as opposed to any other sport 'cause I'm just like shaking up so much that it's you know so I'm just trying to figure out like I know I need carbs and I know I need them Allwood us at a higher level because they're concentrated forms carbohydrates however so we use most people camelback on their racing chair some athletes try to steer away from that in have rice we just ran a study last year using potatoes but that was for cyclists and so yeah cycling is typically doing a marathon your body is going at a pace where you're going to be really using a Lotta your fats do it so that you can save the carbohydrates is you're able to use faster longer for at a higher speed that the same with running you can train up to where you're going and ask yeah so anything lasting that long or if you know you wanna go hard at the end of that distance it's a good idea to have some carbohydrates during the workout all yells and those are basically just we don't really understand I'm completely they're kind of like fiber but they're molecules that hurt island what would you want sweet potatoes I know my favorite color is orange they're so good and what about do you use salt at least a little bit lower but if it's causing you pain maybe trying out some of those even maybe brings them like applesauce packets and senior not enough and and every race is so different when I do drink I'm Anne how much I drink and kind of depends too on if you're in full representation but I- transient original annoy loved represent as much as possible and you train at the University of Illinois yes yes so though throughout the whole throughout a marathon yeah yeah but wheelchair racing marathons like you said my race was our thirty is my best time and Mike Reiss balls so those sometimes are more tolerated than gels the thought is that there's like less are known to cause gastrointestinal distress and so some of the thought or that gels have fructose in them which is a fod map and thing for running is like you said you have all that mechanical like shuffling around on your stomach causing gastrointestinal distress and like every forty five minutes and I know they take the Gels I use gels I know you got you use fluid right liquids yeah the jobs that you have to take them like twenty so really really hard to know how runners will be able to handle potato but I would recommend at least trying to hydrogen potatoes dress and so the thirty percent dome and I think it's figuring out different labral hydrate so it could be potatoes it could be gel because the smaller amount twitch muscles it's almost like they have no gas limit like they could drive forever but you also don't want to lose the race you WANNA go with the fast which muscles every now and then you can go fast enough it does different no I think that would be a cool thing to try think like seventy percent of endurance runners experienced gi like for most of us the reason we use fluids is mostly because our hands are in gloves so it's really hard to tear Gel Otherwise I think it would be something how might be where you personally have to think about good carbohydrates to be able to have in there for when you do your long runs maybe trying dried fruits that helps but then being really cognizant of like the dinner the night before or the morning before if you're running at night like the other meals that support the word right eventually and that you're modeling the CARBS and you're like come on yeah yeah yeah yeah so that's why it's important to recover so we do have ahead of five maps no fod maps are it stands for fermented bull algo sack rides mono sock rides poly tech rides and or trying out potatoes rice and seeing and sleep `Tatoes yes I love my my my people are like could you if you are indeed blitz like in wheelchair racing like are you does that help him if you're starts cramping or anything like that exactly that's a good question and I think it's just are racist take so much less time to get to finish that we're not really in the state that we need salt tablets But yeah but I do think awesome though but I started doing triathlon and I was runner so I I couldn't swim at all on and then if you're going for like four hours you might actually benefit from a carbohydrate source that's got sodium added so it's not necessarily a problem in your training for a marathon if you think you have you'd benefit from salt tablets like you know you're a salty scratch athlete yes I love they have a special hydration one that's got extra sodium added which I've always wanted to be in that level where I would need and it's just so different and like wheelchair racing itself doesn't have nearly at the extent of like feeding joins against the Churn Athlete you're an athlete so yeah you just kind of like if you can do it you find the way and then Yeah Yup swimming is always is always bird yeah yeah I don't I love it and I have a love hate relationship with swimming but it feels good okay yeah no I understand that I think for the bulk of everyone listening to this actually probably having an electrolyte sports drink as good option yes like scratch yeah that's what I've noticed is I think it's important in every sport to have the technique down if you're going especially when you're gonNA combine them so you're he's no I would think would say that it's important for everyone that's listening to this is training to sweat rates and to also determine whether they're salty sweater across training 'cause I know it's not cross training but do you ever do alternative sports that might whenever and I never met coach let us which is l. and I think that would I'm probably not doing something right right yeah I mean a couple it's nothing a couple of swim lessons can't fix it good friend of mine I have a history of like triathlon like always wanting to run more or always like I dunno whatever it is and she was like if you're going to train for a running race you're you definitely don't want to not have not salt yeah I mean I keep forgetting that obviously like we're having this conversation in your professional athletes now maybe thinking about you're getting a lot of repetitive use I think swimming is one of those ones having a someone show you if you don't know it how did you really are here named Illinois and it just like it pumped me up so much to just training and enjoying racing and can really steady slide them all but you're working hard like you're using your core more to move versus like striking a handwriting so I

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