140: Batman Forever
Pro. What's up? Everybody welcome to this bonus episode kiss from a rose addition of real chronicles brought to you by real talking dot com I'm you'll David I got the fellows with me today. Ryan and Leo. Now and then and then, and then then then Batman. And as you by Ryan's wonderful impersonation of the nineteen sixties Batman in my wonderful. Kiss from a rose shadow today we are honoring Joel Schumacher the late Joel Schumacher by covering. What some consider the most influential comic book movies since One Thousand Nine Hundred Ninety Batman Batman forever. Onto, so we'RE GONNA DO A. Back and we're going to look at the production. Do usual the usual stuff. We have our categories ready to go, so let's get right into it. Do you remember the first time he saw Bam forever? Leo what about you start? Definitely, movie theaters I think. This was the first. I didn't get to see Batman Returns to the movie. Theaters this was my first movie theater. Batman and I was super excited for it. yeah, eight I remember wanting all the toys I remember that Batmobile. It I remember yeah, it was a really Kiki Little Kid. With Fest with this movie. What about you right? I believe it was movie theaters as well and just wanting the toys, and especially that batmobiles as a kid thing is so bad ass. Same thing movie theaters I remember. Batman returns the first. Batman movie I saw in theaters, but This is the first one that I obsess over the toys. I wanted to toys. I remembered the Glass McDonald's cups to at an anti. Collect all of those those are fine and I thought the movie was the best thing ever made. I realize later on. It wasn't the best thing ever made, but it is still very entertaining so let's get right into the production of the film I'm going to nugget dive into deep because I do have a lot of facts regarding it later on, but all I can say is Batman returns was released in Nineteen, ninety-two with financial success with financial success and favorable reviews, but one was disappointed with its box office run having made a hundred and fifty million dollars less than the first film which led to placement of director which. Tim Burton is now gone. Welcome Joel, Schumacher and I WanNa say this I think Joel Schumacher gets a bad rap for these two films because he was pretty much doing what the studio wanted him to do, and just dumb everything down and make it cartoonish. Give us nineteen sixty six Batman all over again. And that's that's kind of like I think. Yeah, he. May you know he's apologized for Batman and Robin, but I don't think I mean it's I. Don't think it's his fault, I don't think he was in a very very tough predicament and I. Don't think he was going to come out there looking. Very well. I think he did the best. He could timber and remained on his executive producer now. What does that mean for those L. Timber had thought you know to what the story is going to be. No Tim Burton was executive producer in name. The Way Christopher Nolan was executive producer in name. For Man of steel. An extra paycheck because I don't think that I I've heard stories about Nolan. Being evolved man of steel I'm like. Looks like a really bad sex or movie. That's all the feels to me. But. Nothing about Batman forever feels like timber and influence on I. Don't know if you guys would disagree Leo any thoughts on that so a little bit. I think that there were certain moments where like Gotham gave me the Burton. Gotham feel to it like did look very gothic at times That's definitely not upon I meant the word Gothic. But but it it gave me it gave me a sense around those rewatch that. There may have been like attempts to keep it Bert, any, so it's not completely off base, but could have been just someone else's responsibility, and not have been timber, and so I know I asked you authorized on like. Does it mean anything like? Did He really do anything? Or maybe it was just a coincidence or just studio, wanting to keep some kind of normalcy keeping some of the same actors like yeah I was very interested to see if there was anything like that. What about you? Yeah I agree with. You guys I can kind of see a little bit in. How the layout of Gotham is, but besides that, and the tone of the moving out at all I will say the only thing that has timber and written all over. Is the psychiatrist Dr at the end of the movie who was actually called Dr Burton Dr Burton, yeah, any has timber in hair. So that's the only not I felt that was that hit timber, and for Batman forever I in terms of the filming filming started in September of Nineteen ninety-four Schumacher. Barbara Link for the production design, claiming that the film needed a force and a good design, and it still has a little bit of the Catholic field, but you can see the production design is completely about ninety nine percent different than the other two movies. It became so fluorescent and so glow in the dark. It's ridiculous. Outside of that, the movie made one hundred million dollar, and it was successful. A boys made three hundred and thirty six million dollars at the box office. So it's not like it was any failure or anything along those lines. Now let's get right into what's age best? And what's age worse I have I have a lot tougher. So they. Age Best. The opening scene were two phases robbing the bank. I think that's a solid opening act. I think it reminds me of. Double seven movies when they start, and they have those side missions have really to open. The films have really have no correlation to the actual narrative. The film I think that what this feels yet to face was involved, but that mission after it ended. That's it. You never really brought it up again. The rest of the movie so I dug that. And compared to Batman returns where we gotTa Floating the Penguin just like floating in the source of Gotham during the credits. I think this is a step up. Let me see. Oh batmans utility bill has aged the best in one, thousand, nine, hundred nine. He could barely hold Vicki Vale in nineteen, Ninety, five. He held like a eighteen thousand pound safe, so that age really well Manila. Folders Age really well out the scene I'm talking about is the Manila folder that. was able to take the acid that created harvey, De and tournament to face, but the Manila folder just took it and did not. Nothing bad nothing. teary-eyed or anything like that? Shout out to Manila folders. Chris Nolan ideas used in the dark knight trilogy that were used in BA BA wherever. Batman giving it up turning it in. Joel! Schumacher got there first. What else Batman falling into a back into the Cave Joel Schumacher got their first. Lot of female empowerment J. Chase Meridian noses she wants she wants Batman as she has no problem. Pushing up on him gotta get gotTA. Give her credit for that. We talked about this on our Batman and Robin episode. The Bat March in here is still very very good. It's it's crazy because I think it's. I'M NOT GONNA say on par but I'd say they're both great like they are both fantastic I thought the score was pretty okay outside of the the theme, but the theme itself was Pretty Great. Almost done here Bruce Wayne's tracking necks still Adrian. Absolutely fantastic! Oh! Bama forever also. Predicted the future of Apple with the Apple Watch it with facetime that Bruce had. We're talking to Alfred. Occur and this age while I really enjoyed the towards the end of the movie. When you have the question mark above the bat signal love that dialect is seen as well all right that's that's what I have. What about you Leo? What's best for you? Same as you, my number one thing is the same here as it was back when we reviewed Batman and Robin, it's March I think it is underrated I i. don't know if Connick as Elf men's, but it's it's still you still understand that you still know it still recognize it as a Batman theme just like the little brother of elephants. the tech that gadgets are pretty freaking awesome. This is one of the Times that they really focused on showing the back cave and all the cool stuff. That's in there. the new batmobile isn't as cool, but it looks you more futuristic. I thought it was a really cool batmobile. I love the seeing where it scales the building. River wanting the toy so I was like it did its job I forgot, but this movie has him wearing the black and gold suit a lot. and I think that aged well, because like it it it. It still paid homage to the original, the original to I like golfing city I think it was gothic. I think there was some little call out to the verse two movies I think the master plan of ridler about wanting about people wanting to be inside TV and wanting to like live virtually like that aged incredibly well. Right like I was like Oh and this is actually closer to truth now that it was back then. Bruce and Alfred relationship is so awesome. All the little subtle Easter eggs for comic book fans like. Costume, that little thing he had in his room, the bobblehead. So the? Started Cajole Leo, the ridler costume was pretty much the first one. Not The one he wore at the end is pretty much a carbon copy to the sixty six hundred Laurie. Yeah and he got it from like that like a the thing he had in his does. That He. Yeah you got it from. There like the seventy five year old Chris O'Donnell trying to call themselves wing, but he mentioned the night wing all comic book fans knew what he meant. I think Val, Kilmer as Bruce. Showing some detective skills, H pretty well I think that's maybe it was a little overlooked in the first. yeah, I think overall it's it's a fun movie. It's a really really fun movie. I had a great time. You're watching it and I definitely agree with you on the cellphone. Watch that. Just told the future in what about you, right? What are you have? I agree with you Dave with the opening with to face I think that was just a really solid opening straight up Michael go is Alfred I think he just Jose, entire series and movies down like two solid. This Jim Carey in general I just love him in this movie. I think one of the best parts of the movie. Like one of the things I even point out with quo. Yearns was good. His was better. Six. and. When they mentioned night wing? That's still it makes me mark out even little bit to this day like 'cause. Donald is at least at the age where he could have been I. They could could just jump right tonight winger that. Donald Crystal Donna was ready for the retirement home by the time. Let alone become night wing. And Kiss from a rose Oh. Yes, of course, so does tastic. Age Worse Gotham city apartments. Why are they so small? Why are they so small wire people paying top dollar top dollar to live in that. Unrealistic `Nigma Tech Manufacturing. We have this `Nigma. Let's let's just do a little timeframe here. You got a pet in this that takes about a year. then. It takes about six eight months of manufacture. This `nigma tech thing. And then you put push to market. In this movie `nigma tech was created in about two days. That that has not Adewale at all Robbins. Age, you gotTa Throw Love to Robin being about seventy five years old by the time he becomes Robin. Another thing, that's age worse. Batman costume in a courtroom. All. Thank you for mentioning that in the days. Why? Why is he sitting there in his costume to Hugo some gum like. No it doesn't work does not work at all. Alfred Knob Alfred, being the worst Butler of all time Alfred not being able to tell the difference between kids, trick or treating and adult men trick or treating. Commissioner, Oh Commissioner Gordon answering the bat signal and his jammies. What the fuck was at maybe maybe he sleeps in the head coach Gotham police station. Maybe he just has a a room down there a punching bag in a psychiatrist's office. What's up with that? Why is the circus on TV? Oh my gosh, yes. I I was wondering and then I didn't notice it the first time I've seen this movie until I watched that recently, unlike wait Gotham, broadcasting the circus. Yup and we live. because. It was for special event. That's why they broadcast I. Don't buy ride because. We like Leo and is especially. We live near Gotham city. Where have the New York the circus every year? It's ever been broadcast on TV. The other part of this is that it's the biggest event in Gotham city, attracting every single multi-billionaire and a high office official. It's got them. City doesn't have many events then. You'd think it'd be an opera, but no, you know seventy five year old. Dick Grayson has become robin so has to be. What else what else do I have here? Edward Niklas, read here. I guess it's a choice. I didn't really dig the red hair or was it. Orange was a red or orange. You aren't just orangish. I didn't like it. I think you could stay with. The brown hair just stayed that like that. what else is? A neon light bills. Why. Why do these two faces henchmen have neon lights on their guns? The scene where Robin takes the. Batmobile It looks like he's fighting the cast of starlight express. Next up. The bat smile I saved the worst raw because there's no reason that he should. Ever ever ever ever ever whether it's Adam West whether it's animated whether it's fucking bad flick back in. Batman doesn't smile and that really. Makes me and yeah. That's what I have. What about you Leo? A number one is the shot of the bat suit that age badly the creepy chase meridian. Video that bruce has of chase just like fixing her hair. Well I don't know where that comes from. That is rub and tug video. I get cocaine. Was it was is a beautiful woman. Primate Bruce has a video wind flowing through her hair. For no reason Alfred is like what is, but where's the Vicki? Vale Video. Wayne. That's creepy I. Think Takes Meridian as a character that age well, either so much hope potent vision is to get laid like like she's a professional psychiatrists, and all she cares about is beating Batman so she can get laid. It's not doing it for her anymore. That's why I didn't think the Okay. How how old is Robin? That's that's I'm GonNa read this as I could tell. Because I got more and more, I got more upset as I. Like I, put how old is Robin is in capital letters the next line I have is no one does laundry like that. Laundry that like. He's like exercising and doing laundry. Yet using his martial arts. Martial arts like to to to squeeze the water out of the mop I'm like no one does laundry like that and the last one. Why do the bat gadgets reveal themselves? Alert Yes Robert Debts into the case. The alarm goes off about intruder alert, and for some reason that that keeps the false status is let me show everything we everything we have. I'm surprised I will say this. I'm surprised. You guys like the Batmobile so much I will say like it. Okay I I guess because continuity had even at like when I was like eight years old. I wanted to see how you put that batmobile back together, because remember a Batman returns. Yes, to when he's running when he's driving away from the cops, and he splits it in half, and he cuts through the through. The side pieces of the batmobile break apart any cuts through that middle I wanted to see how the batmobile looked after that, but no, we. Bring you fucking Batmobile to sell toys. Yeah I think I. Think what the Batmobile with merely it was. It was definitely one of those things where I missed the original like I missed the eighty nine batmobile a lot but like. Nostalgia wise like this wasn't terrible. Possibly gave it more than I. Really should've and now round the rewatch like wasn't that bad? It was cool it was. Fun I right, what are you go? Rage. Worse I have close up on the bat junk. Some of the graphics of Gotham City were just horrible. 'cause. We've seen better movies that came before so there's no reason that it showed as it did. Chris Donald, needing an adult that was. Necessary. Why is he award? The fireproof back, which is never heard overseen of again. And Laundry Karate yes. Not so so I assume when I you know. If I ever go by you guys is houses. There won't be any laundry karate. We can't do it together like that. Are. Sucks all right, so let's let's move onto the trophy room. So this movie did get nominated for an Oscar. I was Badmouth. Forever was nominated for Best Cinematography. So I was surprised when I was doing my research for the Senate was nominated for cinematography. I mean it's it's for what it's trying to accomplish is a nice looking film, but I was surprised at the academy would actually go for something like that so A loss to. fucking trash braveheart. I will give it the Batman forever. It was also nominated for sound effects editing. And also lost that. It, and what else and sound and best sound, so it was nominated for three Oscars a hold me thrill me, kiss me, kill me by. Youtube was nominated for the Golden Gopher best original song, but lost a colors of the wind. But was also nominated for worse original song at the Golden Raspberries, which dad doesn't make any sense at the Saturn awards, the film was nominated for best fantasy film lost. A seven special effects lost jumanji and costume design loss of twelve monkeys, Elliot Goldenthal was given a grammy nomination for for the score. The film Batman Forever also received six nomination at the nineteen ninety-six MTV. Movie Awards for four of which were divided between two categories, carry and Lee Jones for best villain and seal's kiss from a rose and Youtube hold me in best song from a movie. However, he just one in one category when it won best song for kiss from a rose. So it did some some more damage than I ever would have predicted in terms of categories. Let's get to that Guy Award. I went with. It's hard not to go with the same guys. If we in for Batman and Robin, so it's between Michael Michael Go and angle. You kind of like you watch you see them like. I actually was recently watching an episode of murder. She wrote Matlock. Matlock. And Pat Angle was the defendant that matlock was defending in that episode immediately. Is I saw him I'm like Oh look. It's Commissioner Gordon so I. Go with one of those two but Pat Hengel specifically because. Michael was also in sleepy hollow, so he did some other stuff as well What about you Leo? That he mazer as my that Guy She played spice. From Debbie means Vermont's rush exactly exactly I remember when I saw entourage afterwards. I'm like we look so familiar. I'm like. Isn't that to face his girlfriend? and obviously the other side. Is Played by Drew Barrymore? But but Debbie mazars the only one I really didn't. Make a name for herself, other than entourage and. Ever. What about you right? I went with Kris Lindahl. That's yeah. You're not rolling their Daedalus six of the film award. Jim. Carey Yeah Yeah I mean I think this is the first time we've ever done this that I have Jim Carey and tha that I have the same person to Gorey's except I put Michael go on this one for six man interesting. I think he has less to do here. Though that in Batman and Robin, but he still I. Mean Michael Goes Great. But his butlering skills are not but he. He does brief. What about you, right? Who'd you go with you and Chris? O'Donnell right? For Dell Scher six minute. Six Man I went with a Jim, Carey, O. Jim Carey okay. Becky icebox award. Who is the MVP of the movie? I Would Jim Carey here carry yeah. I Jim Carey is every bid seat. I were we talked about? I think a week or two ago. We spoke about how we're GONNA. See A ridler like we've never seen before with Matt. Reeves his movie and we're so excited for that. But everything they wanted from Jim Carey Jim Carey gave them in terms of that's what that's. The Jim Carrey they wanted they didn't want anyone like diabolical or anything. They wanted an over the top chewing the scenery. Truman Show Ace Ventura Jim Carey and I think they. He knocked it out of the park. Definitely agree I think there was a a one point i. read an article that like it once. I heard it like an re read it. kind of makes sense that as part of the original Batman movies like everybody was. They kept trying to recreate Jack Nicholson's. So even Jim Carey as ridler. It's Jim Carey. As the joker being ridler like the top making quickly like quick jokes like overacting to face. Like yes, half of it is supposed to be a psychopath. Tommy Lee Jones. As joker asked who face. Like. It's not it's not the actors for either like it's not. It's not that it's not comics facific. That's the way these characters were written I think. To face. I think Tommy. Lee Jones is trying a little bit too hard adding. He was trying to keep up with carrot. Yeah, it's in there to two different performances I think. Once that opening scene. At the beginning at the. What the bank. I don't think he ever comes down from like eleven. Doesn't he? Stays at like Pacino level. He never like it's funny because they're so there has to be such a sense of duality between harvey to face, and there is little duality between harvey did into phase. It is entire movie as a matter of fact, I'm surprised. None of us put it in our age worse when he's in. Wayne Manor, and he's keeps flipping the coin over and over and over again to for him to get the scratch. Side to, shoot, Bruce. In reality to face only ever flips, and that's it whatever the coin chooses. That's the choice, but in the movie he just keeps going and going and going and going and I'm like. Oh, that's counterproductive to Harvey. Dent phases, so I didn't really I didn't really like that too much. Yeah, when you compare it to the Aaron to face in in the. Dark Knight like you've got a sense of like Oh okay, so maybe you don't need an over actor as one side of it, you just you just need a ghost. It's gotta be a dualistic approach to it. and the coin flip was the same thing you're not. You see someone that listens to the coin and lives by the coin speaking of coins I don't know I forgot to add is to to age my age worse Batman with a roll of quarters in his pocket. At the was worse, a roller, coordinating pocket or credit card. Damn? That's a tough question man. The talk about getting drive to in the very beginning, so I say the of quarters a little bit more. Canes. It's like it's like Alpha. He tells effort. I need change. So it's funny because with me, what occurred to me I'm like also when Batman gets ready to go to war with a particular villain. He looks at his cave. He's let me get like my ridler specific stuff today. Let me get my to face Pacific today. Oh, going against to face I need to get coins. I don't know and another thing. How did to face? Get down there at the end of the movie for? If you notice like you have chased Meridian fall down, and then you have rubbing fall down in Batmans able to see them both, and then all the sudden faces, just hanging down there. How did he get down there? and. Why did he go down there? That's another question. He's like I would have fought to live another day. I would've fought live another day our live to fight another day. Yeah, right so that is we have Jim Carey next up is peaks and valleys Who is your Peak Leo? I went val Kilmer and I know that. Came head. It was like in between months of this and heat, which worse he I think I think he by a couple of months came first, but like there's there's no question that come career was never at this height ever again. No, yeah, that's kind of the. Day I? Want Val Kilmer for the same reasons I. You said He. I think ninety five after this he had the saint. And I think that to after that kind of started falling off, I mean he still was acting but I don't think he ever peaked again with like Batman or anything along those lines. What about you Ryan? Who Do you have now I? Have the same as you guys vacuum for the reasons, US. Valley's. My rules always the same. An Oscar you are, you've fucking way more than peaked. Valued your way to be an amazing career Nicole Kidman. She is incredible. I love her work. She is fantastic So yeah, she's my valley here. I mean you guys have anyone different? I have her, and I have Tommy Lee Jones out yet. Yeah, that's a good doesn't under solid one. What about you? Leo, they manigault Kidman like the same they. Literally. Your rule is perfect. You wouldn't off. You've probably that's yet. This is this is a low point, so it's so easy to now when we do these because I'm like Oh, who won the Oscar? If anyone, and then you know we're done? Next week when we do back to the future now that are actually be a little bit more difficult. So all right, so that brings us to some fun facts so for the twenty fifth anniversary of the film. I've compiled twenty five fun facts about Batman forever. A number one Jim Carrey's original idea was to shave question mark into his scalp. Fortunately! It had to be scratched because he was doing. Court finalizes divorce. I wonder if that would have been in ensue in that courtroom and. I'm just making sure everything's. Okay. Hurry up we have to fill. And keep away the Manila folders. Number two according to Jim Carey he did not get along with Tommy Lee Jones on the set. Who told them that he hated him and his films. This one. That is both Tommy Lee. Jones to say ever, doesn't it make sense so because they see my solitaire. Analyses the. You can tell like Tommy Lee Jones is all business Jim. Carey likes to have a good time. Number three. While Tim. In was slated to direct the film Mickey Dole Anna's was considered to play the riddler. After Burton drop Robin Williams was offered the role by Warner Brothers refused due to be embitter about be used as bait to lure Jack Nicholson to commit to the joker in nineteen eighty nine. Would have been interesting to see Robin Williams as the riddler. I Love Robin. Williams really glad talk with Jim Carrey. I mean for the movie that they were trying to do i. think the right choices made. Number Four Val kilmer in Joel Schumacher clash during filming Schumacher described Kilmer's childish and impossible actor, according to Schumacher. Kilmer refuse to talk to him for two weeks. We didn't have a Lotta problems with a lot of directors. Yeah, he's actually one of the only male actors that did not get away with being drama like drama king on. On set he actually I think that's one of the reasons. He kind of lost the top tier fame, because he just be complicated with a lot of a lot of sets so absolutely yeah, heard the same thing, and I know what it coincided with his weight, gain and alcohol abuse to like it. It was a messy downfall for him. Unfortunately like I met him a few years ago and he talk. They. Had I, think he had throat cancer and add to surgery, so he doesn't really speak anymore. That's why if you see him in jail Alibaba reboot his. He has a fun cameo. Be Doesn't speak. Dutch yeah. Check this one number five before deciding night to don the Cape and Cowl for third time Michael Key and met with Joel Schumacher and declined to join the project after deciding that he did not like the direction in which Schumacher was looking to take the franchise in the brief time timber, and was still considering doing a third Batman film ridler was only was the only way he plan on using the idea of using to face did not come up until Schumacher joined the project. Row Number six of jetties here for Charlotte Jenny Leonardo. DiCaprio turned down the role of Dick. Grayson Robin because he didn't like Joel Schumacher's direction similar to Michael Key in turn down. Returning as Batman and Bruce Wayne now Leonardo. Dicaprio was only I think in one, thousand, nine, hundred, five, probably eighteen ninety. Would fit so much better wouldn't have. Else she. Would have stayed of cash. We would have gotten Keaton as Batman with the Cameo with Robin Young. possibly. I mean. That's. Sick so sick. I love that. I mean the Caprio was very not just proced- films at that time, so it could have been a very likely situation if it worked out box office. Wise that we've of regarding not just a Batman and Robin Movie, maybe like a nightmare movie because at that time Leo. Leo. Just stuck to prestige after. Catch me if you can. So for about like a seven year gap there, he was probably doing a lot of like. Different things like he did the man in the iron mask to be beecher and all that stuff, so it would have been realistic thing that he could have stuck around. Cool number seven Phil marks the first appearance of Arkham asylum in a live action Batman Film. had a feeling I was going to ask you about that, too. Because I'm like. This is the first time I think of. You've seen it on screen. So I also we also, I mentioned before that. Schumacher's script was very light. However Schumacher originally wanted to make a much darker more serious film that would more fully explore Bruce Wayne's growing fear they his crusade to be Batman had done more harm than good and that Bruce's beginning to suffer from. Burn out, but. Based on what happened. Batman Returns Warner said. We're not doing that. You'RE GONNA. Make a lighter tone movie. Number nine. This is the first live action appearance of Harvey, Dent to face in disfigured form. He was actually supposed to appear as a villain in the television show the sixty six show reimagined as a news anchor who was disfigured when a television set exploded in his face, but the character didn't appear in the series. Fun Fact. Do you know who expressed interest in playing? Harvey Dent in the sixty six series any guesses. William Shatner no, and he guesses on your end. Leo now I nothing Clint Eastwood. WHOA. So. That would have been very interesting. Early drafts of Batman returns featured, Harvey Dent in the film with Billy Dee Williams reprising his role from Batman and his transformation. It's to face was set to happen during the finale of Batman returns cat, woman kisses him when holding onto the penguins generator, several elements of dental in these early drafts. Were Incorporated to the character Max Schreck, so we would have gotten billy dee. Here in Batman forever. If timber would have stayed, and if the movie could have remained dark to. This. This could have been one of the greatest trilogies of all time yeah man. I when I was doing the research for these facts I'm like I was kind of blown away by some of this stuff, because while we enjoy Bama forever, it's never been a movie that I've actually sat down and researched on like when I was doing this research I'm like fuck. Did we lose out on a great fuck and movie? To make you like the movie, a little less knowing all these facts. It made me Hate Warner. Brothers it made me realize their warner brothers. That Batman movies were good in spite of Warner Brothers because. The game of tag lines earlier. Yeah, in an earlier episode I feel like BC Warner Brothers. tagline should be ruining DC movie. It's it's crazy. It makes me wonder and a lot of Kudos. Todd Phillips I. Don't Know How the fuck you got that joker movie out. I really don't like hearing all the the horror stories from warners I. Don't understand how he was able to get that out I mean. It's. A billion dollar box office hit Oscar winner I mean it. It worked out well, but just crazy. Bat Nipples Guys Bat nipples number ten. Joel Schumacher's decision to put bat nipples and enlarge coat cod pieces on the bat costumes as well as an earring on Robin caused tons of controversy. It even bothered Batman Co Creator Bob Kane. Schumacher said he wanted the costumes to have an atomic anatomic look while the earring was supposed to make robin more hip, he also claimed that the basis for the Batman and Robin suits came from statues of of Ancient Greece. They should have been more. The rebels going break his hip more than look yes. Man It it. Yeah that that wasn't one of Joe's best ideas. Number Eleven Renae Russa was originally cast Dr Chase Meridian when Michael Keane was still attached to the project as Batman however as soon as Michael in dropped out and replaced by Val, kilmer Russo was deemed too old to play his love interest, despite being just shy of six years Balch, Humus Val kilmer senior year, which led to Nicole Kidman wholesome. You played the role and his seven and a half years younger than kilmer. Are there tools? Number twelve. First Appearance Of rob in the Warner Brothers series of Batman films he was featured in early drafts of Batman. Batman returns but several rewrites of the script led to the inclusion to be dropped because burn fell. Robbins presents presents didn't fit the dark tone of those films. What did you think of that? You think Robin wouldn't work in that type of universe. The burr inverse I mean insured. You think Robin is too bright of character. Done. I think he could've done it well. I think he go done. Robin very well could almost darker looking at the boy wonder, 'cause you know people especially nowadays always say like all these avenues. Robin as a human shield. From that aspect because taking it from that angle. Yeah, I think so too Leo thoughts. I feel like that. I think already had so much on his plate with making Batman himself darker than the Adam West Batman. Why throw another character into the play? Perfect the Batman Darkness and then maybe introduce Robin later I mean he could have done okay, but that point I think is like it would have been too much on his plate already from what he was trying to accomplish money. You see that because I. Don't think Tim Bery never meet. Batman movies have focused on. Batman 'cause he loves focusing on the village. because. Honestly I think I love that many nine, but I think that movies more by jokers origin than anything. We have I think you got top billing like it is a Jack Nicholson movie. Your. Shots Val kilmer because he was able to grab that top billing for this. Nobody indignant ability returns Ari. This would have been miserable. Mark Walmer was considered for the role of Robin. Usually same age or older and Think he was older than Chris. O'Donnell Donald. My Lord why? This prophecy Joel Schumacher here unlike timber in Schumacher was actually a Batman Fan. He originally wanted to do a prequel based on Frank Miller's Batman year one. So at least Joel was a fan number fifteen at around forty two minutes in the movie. When Dick says, he wants to go back to the circus. Bruce Replies. The circus must be now must be now halfway to metropolis. The home city of Superman. Which is I? Believe our first. DC Crossover Line. In, fucking add up to anything but. It was her first crossover line. Elizabeth Sanders who plays gossip. Gertie was married to Bob Kane, Creator Batman co-creator Batman, who was also had a cameo in the film. Next up William Baldwin who was also in Gossip Girl Leo. Was reported to be considered for the role of Batman. Other names that were considered for the role of Batman outside of before kilmer took the role on key and left were row fines. Ethan Hawke. Alec Baldwin Kurt Russell Daniel Day fucking Lewis. Tom Hanks and Johnny Depp were all considered for the role of Batman for Batman forever all. There's only one name that should have gotten that outside of. fucking Daniel day-lewis. I would love to have seen him he. Whatever happened to BDO PSYCHE? If he did method acting as Batman, he would've turned himself into a bat I. was. There's like he had to. There's no. Like I would. Love to see aunts, and honestly like all jokes, aside I would've rule of to CDL. Replace if key and didn't WanNa do it DDR replace Qian and timber indirect because she would have been the darkest movie like ever. fucking crazy. Next, this is actually the first movie to refer to Batman as the Dark Knight. Yeah. Now, we're talking about Robin being fifty seven years old. There is a long list of. Folks that were almost cast as. Robin outside of Mark, Wahlberg Michael Goal. Police say go Michael so we talked about Mark Morgan Leo before, but also in contention were Matt Damon. Jude Law. You McGregor Corey Haim Corey Feldman. Toby, Stevens and Scott speedmen work all considered for the role Robin. and honestly the only ones that were of age. You're probably core Heyman. Corey, Feldman. Leo! That's about it 'cause I. Don't know how old toby was at the time. 'cause toby was actually no. I think he could have been okay. 'cause toby was in when he plays Spiderman. He was in his mid twenties right Oh. Yeah, you're right. Look, young, yeah, yeah, so I think he probably could have been okay. All Right? This is just timber, silliness, timber, and director of the first two films would've called the film Batman continues. Before. He decided on just having ridler as the main villain. The original plan for the Batman continues was have three villains. The scarecrow played by Brad Door, if also also known for playing Chucky. Robin Williams as Ridler and Billy, D. S. to face one spurt and left production. Everything changed, and you know we got what we got. Twenty one, the first part of the film was edited extensively to begin with an action sequence. The sequence spoke about what the bank earlier in the on the podcast. The DVD features original opening scene that includes to face escape from Arkham asylum, this is to lead to Bruce Wayne's visitors, business office and the best signal he saw there was to mental lead him to the office in order to suit up from the fight at the bank. This was. was followed by Niklas experimental. stictly Batman meeting with chase at the bat signal was actually much later in the film just before the scene where the batmobiles scales the side of the building they use talked about before chase references to faces, coin at the bank was originally a reference to the circus, and this original sequence of the first part of the film is featured in the Comic Book Adaptation of the film now no clue why they changed it. Seemed like you're still getting that action sequence so I don't understand why they decided to change it. Twenty two. We talked about the toys we talked about the glasses at McDonalds. McDonalds actually pulled out of Batman returns after the movie's release, Dude, dark, subject matter and the controversy surrounding the film even though was a massive hit. Pretty much like we don't need the fucking penguin toy. We that duck. We can't do nothing with that. One St once a warner brothers that they will not participate and across marketing campaigns for Warner Brothers on par three. If Burton was actually still the director. So that's actually another reason that Burton left does because warners. All the marketing that we spoke about Batman any I would have gone. If, it wasn't for the change in director so pretty much warrener's fired Burton for McDonald's. At one hundred, twenty, two more go here at one hundred and twenty minutes is actually the shortest live Action Batman movie in the series I I think Batman Sixty six which is based on the sixty six Batman series was one hundred and five minutes, but the film was distributed by Twentieth Century Fox. So all the movies from Warner Brothers. It'd be the the shortest one now. This is funny because of a movie that takes place thirteen years later. Jon Favreau is uncreditworthy as one of the employees on a wing enterprise. Not because I think, he stole some stuff for Ironman. This scene were Bruce in his office and he like has that slide takes him back to to the back eve, and he's talking to Alfred. A screen that essentially Tony. Talking to Jarvis it is, it is, it is yeah, so you know Ben. Forever helped EMC you two. and. Number Twenty five, the ending of the movie was originally longer after Kissing Bruce, goodbye arkham asylum chase ass, Alfred, if it will, and for Bruce's Batman and Alfred tells chase that it will never end for Bruce. So the twenty five facts legacy of the movie. I mean twenty five years later. I think this is one of those movies that. For the time. I think it's still holds up as an entertaining movie. I used to be a lot hard on it. I won't lie I used to think that. You Know Bama. Robin is such a guilty pleasure, but you know Obama forever has his partnered Boring Mike. I'm more entertaining by Batman and Robin Stupid Awfulness of it and mister freeze. But I think this is. It's entertaining. Fun Movie and I understand. Why made as much money as it did? Leo Thoughts Yeah. I think you think that's pretty eloquently. Put right there. I'd take it still entertaining still popcorn movie like it's still. There's still a lot of pros to it like I mentioned earlier like Ridler is so quotable like everything Jim. Carey says on this everything on his script is so quotable, and yeah I think that I may not be as big a fan of Raw Obama provinces. You are, but I think this was. This felt like a good transition movie. Before we got to Batman and Robin Thicke this was a little bit of darkness, a little more cheese, and then we got the Bene-, Robin, which was all cheese Oh. Yes, so much cheese! Ryan thoughts worst movie that I've seen a hundred times. No I do enjoy the movie so much I get some my pleasure les- Every time. I watch it. I forget how much I enjoy. Entertaining his all hell, Yeah, and I mean it. It's one of those movies that. I think you can sit back at some popcorn. Watch it at home of Friends Watch at home of family? It could be background noise. It's kind of. Has a lot of purposes. It's not one of the movies you have to sit there and pay attention to the plot, because it's very selfish, very self aware of what it is, that's so. And now it's not even cannon anymore, because with the news reported on our previous episode with key in possibly joining the C.. E You as you know Bruce Wayne Batman I. And warners have officially said that Batman Forever, and Batman and Robin or not part of the Kennan anymore. If you look at it. A nice little I mean to pack that you have. If you want to just watch some cheese, awful cheese and just like. Sit there and be entertained. I think you have these two to sit there? Because now these are two self contained stories, and I always honest. Honestly I've always felt that's what these two movies were. I never really connected them to the Burton versus anyway. To be completely honest with you so I think this fits the mold of what these two movies are so. So yeah, that wraps this special bonus episode up next week we will be back as we look at the thirty fifth anniversary of back to the future, the thirtieth anniversary of back to the future part three, and we're still going to talk about all the great things about taxes future part two, and how the air magma the greatest sneaker of all time. Onto them see at the movies.