Hi, Leonard Baltin, and I'm Jesse Maltin reviving. Reviving Lloyd let me introduce you Norman, you beat me to the punch. I didn't mean to go ahead. Let all right. No, no, because it's you only you only you having reached the the majestic age of one hundred and three that I will defer to you introduce yourself again, please, sir. I am and Lloyd being Tele rated by linen more and his daughter who is a foldable persons. Well, you're, you're keen judge of of carrying character indeed. Well, we are just thrilled to be sitting here in the living room of Norman Lloyd, and if you don't know, Norman Lloyd, you're gonna learn about him in the next hour or so, and you're gonna learn that this is a man who has had the most remarkable eclectic career is a good word to use eclectic beautiful graduate. I've always admired you your choice of words when you right. Oh, but collective has never been used before in my collective pressure. Well, good score one for me. Then. This is a man who perhaps the only man almost certainly the only man who can speak first hand. About Charlie Chaplin Alfred Hitchcock. Shaun Rehn will Jean Renoir. Orson Orson Welles and Robin Williams. Yes, that darling man, that's how Jesse I encountered. You was in the movie dead poets society, which it's it's a funny thing because I don't. We've known you for a very long time and you are always lovely, and always this booming, incredible voice of God. But I knew you personally before I'd see new on screen and I remember the first time watching dead poet's daddy. He's so mean he so me. He scary. He's very in this. I'm so proud of that. It was a strange thing to to know you and see how you are. And then I think it was probably one of the first times I had that where I realized that an actor is really an actor and that they can be all kinds of different things when they choose to be. Dead poet's society, which was a very good picture. Wonderful. How do they great director Beata wheel. I cannot speak highly enough about Peter wheel. Wonderful. Talented, Ozzy what a talented Ozzy. Yes, you're right vented. Well, put he what we've had a couple of conversations pita an from Australia every once in a while the phone rings. That's nice. I'd love to do. Find a property. To do with Pedo. Peter would like to find a property to do with me. We've talked about it, but we have no look. Yet yet we are positive what I said yet yet. Thank you very about. We're not. We're not putting an end to that. That's let's right. All right. I keep searching. I tried to what blocks me from rarely finding property the bowl game every day. And the ball game comes on. And everything stops. I should. And you know, in my ancient age. The by train assays, you've got to walk slow bunch every day. You've got to do these physical exercise, Joe flow, and I think that's very good, very good advice. And in the course of the day, I eat show fourth. Doesn't the game gums. And I sit. Who is your team dodge dot? I did. I did see a dodgers beanie baby when came in, which is not something I expected. Dodges for me. Well, no amidst the Hirschfeld's and the photos of hitch and chaplain. And how spin and all of these people? No, I was not prepared to find a dodgers beanie baby. Remember something that this is going to take to the beginning. Right? Which is where you hail from? Yes, you sir. The dodgers hailed. That's right. A proud proud citizen of Brooklyn, New York. You couldn't tell from his thick, Brooklyn accent. That's that's question. Number one. Where did the accent Goto but let you it's very, it's not unusual for you to ask that not for you, but for one skit. Sure. About three weeks ago. I was by some theater group, the name of which I cannot remember. They stowed lifetime of war on me. In the cost of it. As they rose and tribute. It was beautiful. They rose in tribute of they cheered and everything. And I thanked them. I said. Real mind if I remember my Brooklyn. Oh, I don't. Oh, thank you. All my work in the theater. And then I added what you heard the way I pronounced there. I said that is a result of my working on my speech. Because what I entered LA galleons theater in nineteen thirty two. This is the great actress, Eva legal, Ian, right? The the actors. Laghaouat Stater was called. Civic repertory theatre, oh, was down on fourteenth street and sixth avenue. And she admitted me as an apprentice. At one day, she said to be raw. If you wish to be a member of my company, a. You have to speak better English. Well, I was from Brooklyn. You said, what for. I wish I thought of that. I gotta do such thing. That this is a smart girl? Yes, she is. You should carrier arou- onto. I. Here's the thing. Nineteen thirty two. I entered the civic repertory theatre. And I had Brooklyn speech. Actually, it was pretty bad, Brooklyn because the predecessor, the precocious of by Brooklyn speech was Jersey City, Pete. Hi, where I was born and enjoys you city. You spoke like jersey. So I would from jersey, said it to Brooklyn, and you know, I caught the ball games and you know the dodgers go all the way back with me and, and at as a kid broke from. You would go to Ebbets field. And you say you bomb, you know, good. F- bomb. I JJ cry, mad one. Hell you find another business. You're yelling at the players. That May June authentic fan, right? If you just sat there and say, he's had verbal, can hit, he can run, they can throw all good. I mean. My hero, even though I was a Brooklyn dodger. Babe, Ruth, his too. Yeah. Well, he transcends everything that you of utter a truth. He transcends everything. I could tell stories about the baby. We're not gonna go to. The thing is. One galleon. Issued this warped. About staying as an apprentice. I took it to heart and studied speech. With her people. She had a couple of actors who had beautiful speech because she was a classical repertory theatre. Shakespeare IP's, and et cetera. And. She was right. You couldn't play. A whole repertory of. Work. Less you could learn to speak. Show I shut about Lurton at I managed to get what has been called a mid Atlantic accent. If I got away Lynn, which I've done on the -cation they know I'm not in bliss. But they know I'm not jersey said he. You succeeded in your quest digested. Thank you. And I say the consequence. To play much classical theatre. In fact, my very last performance in the theater. You're never show I pronounced yet. It's beautiful. Was with Lou Cal Hearn and New York hook and Julius no gig, Leah. And I played the fool. I wish I wish I could step in a time machine and watch that performance with the two of you. Lou was other lay magnificent. He was. To perfectly. Yeah, first of all stature, he was about six five. And he had the voice to go with it. I had the attitude to go with it. In which connection I must tell you at your lovely. And average dot Lu. That's. What am I great theater remembrances. When we were doing king Leo we in, we're social. And you know the Stanislavsky rebulk. There are only there are no small polyps only small actors. Well, we're, we're in. We're SEL. Had there is an actress in the company. I don't think I should name, but there's an actress in the company who is doing reactions to lose beaches that are all over the fair. Mrs. Aged anyway, her. So he's doing that great lear- speech that ends how shop an acceptance to it is Joe have a thankless child. Out of the corner of is I, he sees this actress acting reaction all over the place. And he stops and there's magnificent voice. He says. Quota name. Idea. I want you to know. Small book. So. With the galleons and replied, your question. That I, I started to clean up my speech so to speak and learn how to speak in. So I was able to play many classics. Well, it stood you in good stead all this time. Thank your length of now. Since we're in talking about the theater in the nineteen thirties, it brings us to the first of the titans. With whom you crossed paths. And I'm speaking of Orson Welles that will talk about John houseman, his partner in crime, but Leonard you of made the proper correction. Because also and did his best work with Jack Ausman. Yes, I know many people feel that. Yeah. What was your first impression of Orson. Well, at curious, it was contradictory. I, he was, you know, a big fat guy. I all this hullabaloo about him. And. I, I met him when I always Jack Hausman who brought me into the mercury. And they brought me into this office and this was awesome. Had we chatted immediately took a very competitive attitude towards each other. Because I thought I was one of the world's great actors and also knew he was. And the egos, if so, clashed immediately. But the class was subterranean. It was a feeling about each other and of. A sub-conscious relationship with each other of. Of fall out of word. Show. I thought, what the hell job. At Gioja. She's a chew bankas holiday. I'd like to play it. So I better be polite. And also was polite except he sensed. He sensed. That I had an immediate competitive feeling about him. I won't say dislike, but there was no like. It was just competitive. If you're so good, let's it. Uh-huh. Did this. What by the way was my Brooklyn bringing up, you know, we'd play Punchbowl then f you, you. What do you think this spurred you onto. To do your best and to to want to show him. Well. In this sense? Yes, put the question. Well, because that may be explains why I I did what I did with my career. And we got on. And actually when I left the Mark mercury. Also was thinking of doing a Henry the full. And I came back to visit on one of his productions to visit the mercury guys and also. And he said to me in make up on stage effort of owns. When are you coming back? Which I consider that a compliment and very nice. His behavior was better than mine. Now. John passes. He doesn't do Henry the fourth at that time and I go onto things with it. So. There was a tribute. Play. At the mercury theatre for auction. Towards? Well, he was. Eight done a few years of work. Tribute at the theater. I was invited back each night was devoted to another aspect of all since Korea. I was invited back to the classical theatre. The early days the mercury and so on. And others came later. Now what was all over everybody dispersed and said, good night to goodbye. All on the stage. I went up to say to him. Braced me a great bay, a hug. Lean down. And wished. But in my. You son of a bitch. That's the last travels. Wow. There are no dull stories about Orson now. No. Now he was not dull, no people of a certain age. No, John houseman. Ironically, not as a producer, not as an entrepreneur, not as the head of the Juilliard school of acting, but as an actor himself in the movie, the paper chase, the TV series that followed in those endless commercials for Smith Barney where he said, they earn money the old fashioned way they earn it. So he had a latter day fame that I don't think he ever anticipated, but many people agree with you that he was really the man who sort of enabled Orson to do what he did both in theater and on radio and and many people who haven't studied history, don't know that. This is true. Hey. Relationship with houseman was strawberry. Because. It was routed and such. How to call it, their arguments they screaming at each other, there. Castigation of h. Was home Merrick. They would scream nearly other in the theater, the mercury, and I be great sports fan. I had a great time to. I'd take the paper and read because it was the kind of screaming near Lang, that sort of you didn't hear again or me was bad. But it was fruitful. And he never did it. Best work we ever did was with Jack Ausman because Jack Hausman was a man of the greatest take, and he did. He -nology had. He was unique. He was great. He should have been in the hall of fame. I don't know why that never happen, but I can never say enough about check-outs. Remarkable and the fact at the end that he had this careers night triumph. Yes. Well, he was a guest on a TV program that also was the host. Up at Alsan by way of teasing him, I guess, said to him, Jack, I, I didn't know your. I'm Jack said to him, you'll never asked me. Perfect. And then you while end up as a guest star in an episode of the paper? Chase, yes, indeed. No. Why did that happen? I don't know how that happened. It was. I'm curious, turn of events, the beginnings of which I don't remember what I'm. I'm glad that it's a wonderful little asterisk in your career. Yeah, the two of you got to work together one more time. Yeah, I love jackass Mun. He meant motor me that now must anyone I've ever known outside wild family? That's a big statement. Yeah. Now, the next big statement person we want to ask about is Alfred Hitchcock because this was in the very early forties you got cast. I mean you had done a couple of bit parts, I guess, but this is a sensually your first movie? Oh yes. Nineteen forty. Two. I came out here to do Sepetu. By the way. Recommended to hit tho the polit. By Jack council. Now, the interesting thing is. Both Jack Hausman. And hit. Well, under contract. To David l. shell snick. And. Hitch, went off on zone. Jaxkar bowl was producing shutt-, but hitch as houseman. If he knew of young actor who could play this saboteur. And Hausmann immediately recommended me. Identified that morning of going over to here. I think eight o'clock in the morning, just research. And. We had a conversation and hit it off, like Hamon aches. I just was perfect from Nord go. That you showed us a photo. In your office over there. It's you and hitch an. I've never seen him that young. I mean, you're a baby face as well, but I've never seen him that young and it's wild. You already looked connected. You already. You said you've just gotten back from filming saboteur. It's, it's incredible to think that that you were part of his. Is movie making that early. This country. He made wonderful pictures in England. Yeah, but then he came to rely on you. Then as with Joan Harrison, we did TV series. And when did he start looking to you. For advice at different as more than an actor. Yeah. Well, I tried to. And I used as I did Wellstone same, I'd have come sations of the set. While we're waiting for the shot. And just Chang. What I felt about a shot, whatever. And gradually the fellas. Would he. I didn't want to use the word help. It's not help an assistant to just be there. And. It happened on shatter where I play the shop. But what hitched liked was that I had all these opinions. Certainly about. Acting particular scenes. So. So he remembered that. And when Lou awesome. Who was the major figure in this town. As hitch to do a television program. Hitch agreed and sent for Joan who had been. He's script girl and England, and then. She advert and the script for him. And I think she wrote were one of the Registan, Rebecca, and then the case on one of the pictures and. They felt they needed help. Oh, I know show he and Joan did the television series the first two years. And they, you should do thirty nine episodes Aghia which is unbelievable. It is just the two of them. Show, they decided they needed help. That's when they put me on. Would joan. The beautiful trauma lately and a great talent. I the great talent she knew about pictures. She knew how to handle the set. She'd walk on the set in the morning before going to office to check everything. The crew Dora because we beautiful and very elegant. Great. Ulama gal Quadra lady ally. I assume they knew she knew her stuff. She knew her stuff and the crew must have known that let you put it right that they'll love that. I did it again, did it again. This never happens at home. Enjoy it. Now it'll be over snow, never happens at home. I good nece. You hit the nail on the head. But you never could have. Surely you couldn't have envisioned that you would go through life being. Identified as the man who dangles off the statue of liberty in saboteur. And that's your very first movie. It's incredible. You're a New Yorker, no less. So all the things to dangle from. That's that's that's city pride. There. Yes. Dying golfed statue of liberty. I'll take you see a picture I have in the back of me inside the head of the real statue of liberty. With all, try by the photographer. Maybe I think he took it. Let's say he did say he did that. I'm I'm inside in the most composed Fash. I look really dressed. I'm just a guest inside the head of the statue, but a statue was always a dead, defy with me and. -able noble defecation I could not possibly. And what a way. I mean, what do they say? What do you do for an encore? And that that is I hell of debut. But then within just a few years, you had another great assignment for Lewis milestone who you mentioned before in one of the great World War Two movies, a walk in the sun and that film holds up one hundred percent. Oh, it's so beautiful. I think let it. Harry Brown. Terrific, right. Millie, the way he staged the way he conducted with the actors. I love Millais. He was. What the guy fell on short of hard times at the end. I think that to do with the political thing. Well, that was true for so many. Yeah. Yeah, so many that you knew? Well, many of your contemporaries dealt with that in a very serious way. I can't. I can't imagine first of all working in film as long as you have and seeing how drastically that's changed because you're still filming now. Creek drain, Rick trade. Any of the stuff you're working on, it's the idea of your history is not just history, but it's also to do specifically with this medium. We live in, you've seen it shift in such dramatic ways. And then you've worked with people like Charlie, Chaplin. Oh, so to say that, I mean, too young person, if you say yes, he worked with Charlie Chaplin was and was very dear friends with him. And then two issues ago made a movie with Amy Schumer. They may not understand that that's a part of you. You will do anything really true. Oh. Tuck break. Can you imagine being shocked at the age of one hundred? Three? Sure. Amy Schumer. Did it. Did she remind you of chaplain water mouth on. Oh boy, but I love. Oh, I love it. But. You don't know what's gonna come out mouth. Now, from what I understand you I met Charlie Chaplin socially, not professionally. I, I met him. As follows. I was Joe. Cotton's playing tennis. Joe would have tennis on Sunday. This is the same. Joseph. Part of the mercury theatre, oh yes. And is in citizen Kane? Those of you who know that film, Joe was the most beautiful people I've known. I'll tell you something that great picture of Carol Reed. The third man, third man, which is always sort of said, oh, well, also did that wonderful thing with the wheel and all that. No. Oh, should very interesting work, but that picture is Cup. The way he goes through that picture is just extrordinary and less shop hero waiting for the woman to walk by them on all that gets me every time every time. Joe was just what? So he was an avid tennis player. Yeah, he liked to play and have tennis. Pretty good, wasn't. Above like me. I had a gang not I play with your own show. But the point is that. I got to. Always Joe's on a Sunday. And one of these tennis days we played and at that game was a great tennis player. Great friend of Bill Tilden's name, Kim to round who was of very dunning what I say stunning. He was a man of the twenties really addressed that way. And he behave that way, and he was a great friend, great, intimate of limited group of people, one of whom. Was joke up. And so he was there for tennis when I play that the end of it, he sent to me. Would you like to play next Sunday Saturday. Charlie chaplin. And I thought, oh my. Because you've got on the stand. I don't know about you is baby, but about me, I would sit and a high Chas I call them what the tray. Now, India, by the way they would quiet me which put a little Charlie Chaplin whom they wound up. The walk. Did Cain. Oh God. I mean, history was being made. So. I. What I got a little sense into my head. I shut up really hit me this. Great. This act. Who ever lived. And I mean that it a very calculating fashion. No one was ever shot. He was world famous in a way that no one of it was and what he acted was breathtaking. You could tell you a great story about the Jin ski who came to this country. Would laugh. And. They were in New York. Did show that they then moved to Chicago. Did they show that? And then they came out here and the Jin ski expressed a wish. The one thing he wished was to be Charlie Chaplin. So that was a raid. He came out to the set. Charlie, put them next to the camera. Charlie was shooting shorts of the time and the shore. One of my favorite things of all time is short, Charlie's joy, on-road skates. The rink the rink and skating is on believe, you know, it's all dubbed, but it can't be because he scathing one like in the one behind them one up on his ear, I mean, unbelievable. And in the midst of it, he he is terrible solving. Oh. And your looks around. She's Jin skiing. Oh. Oh, I skate. So ver Jim ski, ginger ski. What is it? What is it that somewhere in south of do go, no. No, no. You're so funny. It's most rushing story. I know. Oh, jolly to that story. So. I about the tennis. So the following week, I was instructed by Tim Durant how to get trolleys house. Admit. The butler. Now child as Buth. Whose name was what's them. You know. The scheme of things where it's called the Butler, did it. Mhm being, yeah, the Butler that was Charlie's, but what's. Who is the ultimate snob. Hey, look down on Charlie and. Who shall beautiful as a couple God. Jolly wants to me. I never knew what love was to lie. Do this woman. Beautiful. We will coming up tennis court, our member anyway. What happened was that. Watson admitted me for all this all basically. Oh, I think I told her about lady mental. Watch them had been lady mental Butler ID thought that gave better is the chaplain. So he was very small, but you're chopping. Charlie knew it hadn't loved it because he, he would do things that would irritate what's. Fun show. I went to the caught. Up there on the tribe and. I shut went down to what was tennis house and sat there waiting at Suren of jolly Cayman. Greeted everyone very politely. Then we got on the court. Have we played doubles. I think Bill Tilden blade with John. And. I played with Jim or something, whatever. We show I left. The following week. Tim gall. Would you like to go up to Charlie's again? I said, yes, I would now this first venture. I had no come sation with Johnny toll. Yes. Nice to meet you and was over. Thank you very about until. So now this was the second. At this time he was. Oh, nice to see you again. And. We got on played. And. I had a good time we talked. He played with someone else. I'd never played with Charlie at this point. Show he played with the play out, and I played with someone. Probably, no. He was playing with chairman. I had someone else and. That was the second time. In the middle of the week. Next week, there is a call from Watson. Could you come up and play tennis with Mr. chaplain. Yes. I felt advantages to be out of work actor. Show I went up and it was just Charlie. He was most gracious at. I said, how nice it is that you could play today. I'm so glad, and we played. After it, we went up to his study which was a son house. And he had his old fashioned. I did that. And had just drink of sold. Oh, whatever. I'm from narrow, and he kept calling every week to come up and play. And weekends. Gradually it developed into a shallow thing. The two of us. Conversations about the world. And productions making movies at cetera, et cetera. And it got mobile intimate. Finally, he said, would you like to invite your wife up for dinner. Becky came up and she knew hit it off like ham aches, and it got to be a great friendship with Peggy and own had they can often. That was it. And then eventually he hired you. He only hired me as an actor. We own the property together. He wanted to make, which I recommend it to him. They shoot horses, don't they all. Oh, my now. One day he said to me. I remember where it was up sweet his house. We check in the show have to tennis. And he shed. No. As anything that you'd like to do. And if there is, you know, and. We might do it together. I almost fell down in shall well show was no, but I mean room. And I thought, gee, you're making a picture with Chaplin. That's the sum of something. Show I recommend that they shoot horses, don't they. Where she knew he knew the piece. And I thought if anyone in the world should make that picture. That should be jolly because he would know the background like. Perfection. Notable Horace McCoy's book. Yeah, but it's such a downbeat. Property. I can understand why Hollywood wouldn't have snatched it up, and it was still downbeat when they made a wonderful movie, but it's tough movie to watch. Jolly was go to accept. He got involved Ed writing. Limelight. Has absorption was in limelight, because limelight represented to him. His own ending. Yeah, he was a jolly. It library says it's over for me. I can't do it anymore. That's what's so beautiful about that picture. His confession. That it's over for. Show movie. And I was very proud of the fact that the asked me to be in it. And. He was great. I mean. History. Certainly it was history even then Jesse and I often use the same phrase. It's not history logging while you're making it. But in this case it was street while he was making it because it was so personal and yeah, guess she, it wasn't. Just the tramp. Every no actor and the pictures about an old active Fe out, which was Charlie because after limelight is beautiful film, beautiful, but then Charlie got involved in two other properties. I don't know what that all that was and that didn't work that it was. Just forget it. Although I must tell you why went to visit him, but it was making. That's what's. How does from Hong Kong account as Hong Kong? Yes. I fell madly in love which he Laura. Well, that just shows there's red blood coursing through your veins, fell common common feet. And. Ball london. Verano. Gybe advert. And. Marla new new jolly. Show all I would just sitting on the set. He came over me up. I don't get as a message. And I didn't say anything, but I thought to myself use all of it to your dying day. You'll never get his message and that was it. Marlon Jesus. It's a shame it's a film is kind of a missed opportunity. Too bad too bad. But so we, I know fans and scholars even we prefer to think of limelight as his finale. Yeah. Well, there's also the the king of New York. That's the other one he made. Yeah, overseas. That's pretty good too, but limelight just seems like a of a summing up. Yeah. Beautiful. It's just the perfect picture of actor retiring now, television open new doors for a lot of people gave work to a lot of actors, certainly and opportunities to a lot of young up and coming directors writers producers and to people of experienced like yourself, and you had many great opportunities. Thanks to television. Well, yes. I the fact that I was lucky enough. Well, the two things about television in by case. Well. The Alfred Hitchcock percents and elsewhere. Now, I think change elsewhere was one of the greatest shows ever done television. My wife and I would second that opinion. The Jess. He was too young. She has an actual excuse. He was too. Yeah, I'm glad shaman Joe life, but. Shea belch wet. The writing was the stall. Then the actors were a good cast. We had Ed Flanders one of the finest actors in America, a superb act up. I used to tell the young actors who came on set, watch him, do what he does the way would do scenes at is dial and so forth. Billy daniels. Who of course see Jesse knows him both from seventeen seventy six a show and film we love and from his later. TV mainstay. Oh boy meets world boy meets world their world. What's going is called boy meets world and he played Mr Fini who was a teacher and I, I was I was obsessed with the film. Seventy was am obsessed with the film seventeen seventy six. But we also love the show and I listened to the cast recording over and over again. It's one of my favorites, but so the first time that I saw him, I said to my mom, oh my God because it seventeen seventy six. And the next time it was, oh, my God is Mr Fini from this show and anyone. My age has a similar reaction because a lot of times you watch you watch seventeen seventy six in school. I think we watched in fourth or fifth grade, so that's a lot of people. My age knew that, but then boy meets world was huge was so popular for us. But you had at Herman to love him who is just so wonderful. Absolutely. And and that young Fola what's his name? All right. Denzel Washington. Oh. That's my mom says, Denzil mother can make anything Jewish or or Yiddish. She social say all that Denzil. I know not Denzil. You didn't find him in the Bronx? Not Denzil. That's all right. You tell your mom. She's right. She's right. Denzel denzel's love. That's the stencil benzel. And how he Mandel made a big hit in that show. It was a marvelous ensemble. Marvelous. And. Tom, Fontana of Bush. The head writer wrote some beautiful stuff, but they my character of the old, whatever. And he wrote beautiful stuff that I would do that Flanders marvels. Joe, that was my big television experience except is director and producer. I did the Hitchcock right now. You directed an episode of famous episode call the man from the south right with Steve McQueen, right. Not yet a big movie star, but on his way up the ladder. Right? And the great Peter Laurie, and it's a great, it's a great episode. Wonderful. And they are. They're just right. Oh, he was amazing. I found a way to direct Jim wish not to just leave him alone. Guy is magic. What. Fantastic. Yeah, Peter, Laura, I was. Always curious as to what he was. What was his background who you are. Someone told me he was Jewish now. Hey, look as far away from any synagogue because I've. They would never admit him. And there's an interesting. Yes. And you were in the remake of them? Yeah, I think is a pretty good film. Yeah. Another great cast. David Wayne, every character actor in Hollywood, seemingly. Joseph losy directing, and some people are dismissive of it because they're comparing it to a masterpiece. That's right. That's the thing I do. Joe very well from the time. He, I put me on the WPA. And when he was having a hard time. And he got this assignment to do 'em again. I thought. Why try to do the repetition of one of the really real masterpieces. It's an unbelievable movie that long. Shall we made it? And you know it's passable but not comfortable. I'm sorry about that, but Joe got going when it got to Europe. Yes. And he had a second life there. Yeah, and creatively. I think second life yet as well. You got to. I'm sorry, what? What was the? What was the first time you directed? Was it a show, or was it a film or TV show like stage or. I take her was in the data. Yeah. Stuck. Good place to start. Yeah, yeah. Where I don't know because I wanted all over the place. Right, but we stock. Yup. What do you think you took from me? And that's the thing I can't. I can't imagine you talk about your friends, hitch and chaplain as you're talking to us in, you're saying Charlie in that way that someone who actually knows him can say Charlie where I can't say that because I don't know Charlie, but what, what did you learn from them when you were directing? Did they have an effect on the way that you directed being around those kinds of? I'm sure being around Orson Welles had some effect in that you knew not to shout and scream it. Everybody. Well, what all Sion. His direction was all performance. Oh God. He would act this that. But we put up, we knew that the critics would love him and audience we do. It was going to be a success. And he was, yeah. But I don't know where I, I started to worry. It's in the back of my mind somewhere, but I can't remember. No, I've been in this business loan. Why I'll give you. Truth to tell. Not to quote me. Never eliminate this from the buff Scott. I can't remember at least half the things I did. That's really fair though. I think if you've only got so much room for everything. The old noggin, yes, is one hundred and three years of stuff in there. Stuffing stuck xactly. Now. When you, sorry, please. I've just going to say when you did occasionally direct one of the Hitchcock shows. You only had a couple of days to turn that around. Oh, yeah. That just in addition to the fact that they do used to retain Lee thirty nine episodes year, which nobody does any show today going when they go over twelve, it's a miracle. Yeah. What we did what I came on, they stopped doing thirty nine but we went to thirty seven. Oh, that's easier. Thanks guys. But again, you had to turn them around and such rapid order. Oh, yeah. So you had to be really prepared. Yep. Yes. I'm trying to think. I had to wonder if we had a wonderful crew. And the crow crew is very devoted to Joan. Who is I said, I was very beautiful, very feminine, and. What you say to the pro smoking cigarettes, you know, show full so on. Yeah. Yeah. But as I indicated. When Eric ambler. Oh, wonderful. Terrific guy came into life. You're in Graham Greene, as you put it out. You said he this story right. He and Graham Greene changed the whole format. So to speak. But he's a beautiful guy. Beautiful man style, hopefully. She began to drift off. She which unloved, and. Daily daily appearance which try. She was entitled, yeah, she was well, you worked with one more giant. We have to discuss casts a big shadow Martin Scorsese in the age of innocence. What what? What does he like on the set? I've, I've interviewed him. We've seen him being interviewed. He so articulate and talking about films he loves and we know that he's meticulous in his preparation. What's he like on the set. On the picture I did with him. He was very polite. Very quiet. Very withdrawn and the sentence. Let it all just spend out of it. So. He. Eighty one set to me because. He wasn't a be standoffish, shouldn't watch it develop. And he said, what did usually almost by way of apology? Usually I much close on the set and mall widow. I think he should it that way. That I have been on this picture. And I found him very polite. Very. Creativeness sensiti would say, that's it. That's let's go with it so forth. But he was not articulate nece sense of. Some directors Ovalles show. Mention, I should say, what nameless? Yes, yes. Who. Talk talk, talk, talk. No, that was not SCO Seiichi when a, what? What me another of your more recent credits is one that I like very much in her shoes directed by the late hard to say it because I knew him the late Curtis Hanson. He was beautiful. It was terrible. It sure was we made the picture. The next I hear he's dead. How did this happen? Yeah. And I must say, I admire what you were able to do in that movie because you play a hospital patient, ten, nine, yes. Blind hospital. Patient tended to by Cameron Diaz lucky man. Don't forget. I was in bed with. He's jealous enough Norman, don't rub it in. That's one of his crushes. You can't read that. Good taste. Good cakes. Thank you. But. Oh, I'm reindeers and I were in bed together. I thought. Maybe we don't have to shoot this. I loved him. But what I found interesting is to act while being bedridden essentially has got to be really tough and blind and blind booth. But I mean you're the idea is you have to project energy for your performance. When you're in a position where normally it's, it's rest. Yeah. And even lethargy. Yeah, but but no, you found that sweet spot in between, you know. What interesting that that was talk of my being nominated for an Academy Award, supporting actor, all that and never happen, but there was talk of it while they should've talked more. Thank you. Which I liked it. I thought it was good nights. Thought. I found him most. Enjoyable. Lovely. Curtis was very special guy. Yes. You're right. A film buff of the highest order who became a very gifted filmmaker. I didn't know he was a film. Oh, yes, absolutely. And then he became honorary chairman of the UCLA film and television archives. So that was a great. They were lucky to have him, and he was a great person to represent them for any of you that don't know if you look up these LA archives. They do fantastic work really, really do. Yeah, they work hard and it shows by very DEA. Dale friend, Bob get is also connected what they all. Yes, he's retired now, but boy, his work lives on all the films. He rescued all the films. He brought back to life plus the archivists the film Graham delusion. It's interesting. Awesome said that if a decree, one, fourth, all foods to be destroyed. The one film that should be preserved his grand Lucien all he wasn't wrong about that. The picture is. On believable if you watch it how he got red wa. Not on the screen. The attitudes. The not only performances, but. The way of life. The people. I mean everything about it is so remarkable and some great performances. Yeah, to be sure of Eric von Stroheim with the whisky and drawing his neck back. He. And for neighbor to my acted in the theatre. Play, call, Noah. Great, ACTA. Great actor for may. And we haven't mentioned the fact that you became very close to John Renoir during his exile here during the war. And then when he moved here permanently the Los Angeles, I love John way. Did. Very proud of the fact that he asked me to directors last picture Corolla. Have you seen? I have not embarrassed to say lizard account role, whom I, what am I foam madly allow. Not alone on that one either. I said, you're not alone on that one either. Oh, God. So beautiful in it and a wonderful person. Oh, eventually move to Europe. And as our grandmother, she moved to Europe to be without grandkids. But she was executed in Corolla as she was. I think it's so many thinks she did. But she was a great favourite of your house. Ause. And. A letter that I think for the record, I should tell you one of my favorite scenes was your own. He was making. Of a picture made he at the southern. And this leads. Zack, Scott and Betty field who was may just on Broadway. There's a scene in that. Well, they are very poor people, but two of them and they have a small patch of land. They have to rage raise vegetables on it and order to eat. And see. Little dog. A small dog gets. Oh, no. In this scene, a cow gets into this piece of land and begins to Trimble on the vegetables. This was life threatening. What did y'all. Was he has a little dog come in. Balk at the cow making the cow run out of the patch and into the river. Which story that follows them into the river. Well. That was a problem. Because they would put the cow into the scene. With all the vegetables and everything. Trample. How would we munching away. They would put it in this puppy who was to frighten the cow to walk into the river. So they put the puppy and. And should stop to shoot the pope is scared to this of the cow, and it runs out of the shot. So they catch it. JAL, we'll do it again. On the fifth take. Making no progress with this puppy who would run out of the shot every sheen the cow go boo. Boo. Finally on the fifteenth. Put the cow in. The puppy runs out starts to run out Sean, catches it. Throws it back into the scene and says it. Wa was one of the most beautiful people. I have not. I'll repeat that. You're all run will how is run. Beautiful people I've ever known. He was. Everything you would hope to meet in this business. Dreamy. I don't live my life. With a feeling of envy. I'm very happy with my life, and I feel very fortunate with what I've been able to experience the people I've gotten to meet. But but I have to confess norm that if I could trade places with anyone, it might be you even if I had to lose a Brooklyn accent in the process, what would have to. Yeah, absolutely. Galligan wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah. And Jesse and I, I've been so looking forward to this opportunity to just sit and and hear some of your memories, some of your stories. Yes. Curious thing. As I indicated earlier. I can't remember everything I've done. I just don't I the day I suddenly came across something that reminded me I had made to pick to job McRae. I love Joel McCrea. He was a wonderful guy gorgeous anyways on all the greatest seen you could shoot Phil. Oh, it was beautiful with a lovely why Francis de? Oh, so beautiful. Perfect for Joel who's a giant, and she was teeny weenie. Well, yes. If you're wondering folks, did Norman ever make a western? Yes, I did a couple of them. I did a couple, and then there was one I was taken out of. Because the first scene. Was a charge by us. We would have these. They do the the first take. All of us have. On these horses and director says, well, folk out a lot been. And I forgot up holding onto the pummel for dear life. Well, that's not a western strong. And that was the end the my performance out. You had other fields to plow? Yes, yes, we're glad you did. Chee. This has been fun. Jesse, how? How do you feel thank you for letting us in your house? People don't let us in their house. No, it's it's so love you to welcome us in and show us your pictures and tell stories it's it's fantastic. We appreciate it so much Norman. Well, it's been a long life. Yes. A long life in a full life and you and Peggy were married seventy seventy five seventy five years. Yeah, you've got grandkids in the whole you've you've done. You have done it, sir. Yeah. And at ain't over yet. Right. The chicken would my grandkids. Yes, I'm sure. I'm sure my Jesse named after you. Thank you. Doing very well as y'all of as an immigration. Very proud of him because God is shaved a lot of people. It's very important. We need you AFA back again. Yes, I often think about that, but we quote him, we quote him a lot and a lot one. Yeah. How old was he? Mid eighties. Say eighty seven. I think something like that's right. It was how old eighty-seven Amir tad pole? Yeah, Amir tadpole compared to you. I wish stayed on. Yes. Well, I do too. Yes. Wonderful Levy was immigrant. I think that's the only good thing for law. The be, hey. Yeah, those people and doing good work. Doing doing well by doing good, doing good by doing well, those those those are real. Yeah. Anyway, Norman, we won't say goodbye. We'll say, do you. That's French is in. I think chairman, I think it's German Italian, be careful. I, I always aim my mother. You can't be surprised. No, I know where you get it from me. Oh, mom. Give numb, I will anything less than love. She hit me over that. That's what that's the best description of my mother. I think I've ever heard me over the head. Yeah, I tell you. London amazing of I've. I mean that woman is violent, no, no, no, no small. She's a great partner. She's small that that's how that's how we, yeah, she's a little Bronx bombshell. Well, that's that goes type o type troublemakers. Yeah, but we've got some good ones so Jesse, where do people find us follow day find you and me at Leonard Maltin than at Jesse? Maltin on Twitter and Instagram, and Leonard Maltin dot com. You can read movie reviews and book ups. We have few more book around up's going on, and it's a really neat pieces. Thank you. What did you say. I 's head. You can go to Leonard Maltin dot com. That man on the Interweb you can go to Leonard dot com. Going to him on the phone. Yeah, because you're a VIP. I can't do the internet. Have you don't have to? I resisted the region. I don't do. Is. No, I heard this. I like carrier pigeon put a little note on a carrier pigeon off. It gets yes, very environmental violently friendly done. My son who's quite wonderful. He came in and took away all my internet stuff. He doesn't want it now. I said, why don't you take it? He said, because somebody might get hold of it when you didn't know about it. He had one been cop. So he broaches everything. From a Cup side at youth? Well, well, there's a lot to be concerned about their. It's true. He's not wrong. Is it true? Yes, I'm afraid so. So we're going to say goodbye to you folks and thank you for listening and thank you again Norman for being our guest, and we'll see next time. Thank you.