New Orleans Jazz History with Stanton Moore, Walter Harris, Joe Lastie, and Greg Lambousy
This episode is brought to you by burn symbols here. I'm using a mixture of the fifteen inch vintage series. Hi Hats and the twenty vintage series ride these symbols. Make me want to play because they sound so good and they look really great with vintage. Hand hammered style. You can tell the love and attention that goes into each and every symbol burned. Symbols are handcrafted in America in created for Turkish bronze and gradually shaped with thousands of hammer blows and leave by hand in Illinois by them online at Burns symbols dot com. Check out all the great symbols they offer and find a dealer near you also check him out on instagram at Burns. Symbols spelled B. Y. R. And e. now onto the trump. Welcome to the drum history. Podcast I'm your host bartenders. E and today is a very special episode. All about the history of New Orleans Jazz. This episode was primarily recorded in July of Twenty nineteen when I was in New Orleans to see the rolling stones which I'll explain in a minute. These are interviews that were done in person as opposed to what I usually do which is via the phone or skype so it sounds a little different Like you're going to hear from Stanton more great New Orleans jazz drummer. Who's in galactic and a clinician and educator? We're also going to hear from Walter Harris. He's the drummer for the preservation. Hall Jazz Band and he's GonNa teach us all about the Mardi Gras Indians and they're amazing culture and heritage and their impact on New Orleans jazz. Also we talked to Joe last e who is one of the other drummers at the preservation hall jazz band and is just a legend in the New Orleans. Seen you're going to hear from Greg Lamb. Boozy he's the director of the New Orleans Jazz Museum and we did a phone interview before any of this happened. I went to New Orleans but then I had the chance to go to the museum when I was there and check out the drums Ville exhibit. So you're going to hear a little bits of him throughout the episode but then at the end I'm going to include his description of what this exhibit is. Because for all of us drummers it is just amazing so stick around to the end and you'll hear a little bit more about that now to explain the rolling stone stuff that happened I'll take some time right now to tell you about it and if you WANNA go ahead and skip ahead like ten or fifteen minutes you can get right into the interview with Stanton Moore but I think this is a pretty cool story so I'll go through it. I all of this first off to Don McCauley. Who is Charlie Watts Drum Tech? He made this experience possible. And it was amazing. So What happened was if you remember back if you've listened to the show for a while I had Brooks Taylor on who came on and described how Charlie Watts purchased. Gene Crew Has Lost Drum collection that was found in a storage unit that had been locked up since nineteen seventy-three when he passed away. So Charlie Watts bought it and then dawn and Brooks basically I guess together Brooks reached out to me but thought that coming onto the podcast would be a good way for people to hear about this collection and get the word out which I'm honored. That happened so we did the episode fast forward. I'm at the Chicago Drum show In Twenty nineteen and Don is there with a gene Krupa drums. They're the ones we talked about. The collection Charlie Watts owns and dawn. Is Basically you know taking care of so? I'm talking with Dawn. And he basically says What about interviewing Charlie Watts and I said Holy Crap? That would be unbelievable. I'd love to do that. Is that even possible? And he said Yeah. There's a tour coming up. The stones are going on the road. What about coming to when we looked at some places that aren't too far away from me and all this stuff we ended up landing on New Orleans and it was kind of like a? Yeah we'll do it and I'm like Okay this is unbelievable so I text my wife. Who's pregnant and we just sort of? There's not too much like locked in yet. But it's like okay. This might happen so fast. Forward we get closer says yes. Let's do it. I cannot confirm at all that you can talk to Charlie which I'm like that's fine. It doesn't matter Just to be there and go see the stones would be amazing so fast forwarding. A little bit Well I WANNA skip this. There was basically a hurricane or supposed to be hurricane in New Orleans that day Of the show so they postponed it a day. I mean it's I had plane tickets purchased. They were cancelling things. Hotels were closing. The hurricane didn't even end up really happening but I was about to rent a car and drive twelve hours to get there with a pregnant wife. Thirty five weeks pregnant which isn't smart but you know come on throwing stones backing up for a second a few days earlier. I think Greg from the New Orleans Jazz Museum I asked him. I said Hey I'm GONNA be there. Do you have Stanton Moore's number and I have at that point. I have zero connection to stanton more I saw drum days in two thousand two when I was twelve years old. So like that's my only connection to him was seen him then he said yes. Here's his number. I texted him. Stanton pretty much instantly responded and said Yeah. Let's do it. Contact me when you're here and you can come to my house and interview me and I was like that's unbelievable your stanton more. So that's setup. I wanted to get the most out of being there and talking with people so Yeah so then we get to New Orleans. It's postponed today because the storm but we end up there. We go to our hotel which is basically connected to the Mercedes Benz superdome which is where they're playing Check IN DON says. Hey let's meet up and go to the preservation jazz hall which I had no idea what that it was at that point. We go there. It's just amazing. Jazz Hall tons of history. We see people performing Which would be Joe last year? Who I mentioned before. And you'll hear from in this episode I met all these people. Sit There Abby my wife Don I are watching the show. It's great then. Dawn says hey we want to go in the back and actually do some interviews and talk with people and I'm like Oh my God yes. That'd be awesome. So abby peels off. She's like no. I'm pregnant I'm going to go back to the hotel and lay down So anyway we're back there you're going to hear in this. It's this isn't like were set up in a quiet room. There's some chatter and stuff which is it is what it is we were. They're just doing it on the fly. So I talk with Walter Harris the drummer. I talked with Joe. Last E we have fun. We're hanging out Get the interviews. Everything's great and then dawn says And I'm just gonNa tell you the whole story here Don says. Do you want to come to dinner? With the rolling stones crew basically the tax and the stage crew. And all that stuff. And I'm like life. If you want me I will come. I don't want to step on your toes. So anyway we go. We hang out at this really cool restaurant. We walk in but the cool thing is. Is We walk in and then Ronnie Wood from the rolling stones is at the table next to us. Which I'm just like this is insane. I'm losing my mind But we have dinner. It's awesome. Everyone was great and also need to mention that at dinner. Don Said Hey. Why don't you invite Stanton more to come to the Rolling Stones Show And have this experience and like go backstage and all that good stuff so I was like. It's just insane for me. Who is a relative nobody Compared to Stanton Moore and Charlie Watts to be able to do that and extend that invite via Dan so that was really cool. He gave me that opportunity Which Texted Stanton and Stanton was like Yeah I think I can make that work So he and his wife got to come with us. But we'll explain that in a little bit we then I think have a beer and then I'm like all right. I'm GonNa leave you guys alone. I don't WanNa be like a third. We also I peel off the next day. I go to the New Orleans Jazz Museum and meet with Gregg who you're hearing in this episode and he shows me around the drums Ville exhibit and the back room where they keep all their records and it's just really cool. Great people everyone in New Orleans was awesome So we do that. It's awesome you'll hear more about the actual exhibit at the end of the episode like I said but So then it's time to go to the concert so I go back to the hotel. Get my stuff together At all times throughout this entire weekend in my back pocket I had these two little. Tasking him recorders. That are like lava. Lear Mike's that they have little SD cards in them. So they record straight to themselves so there's no extra crazy stuff. Because I wanted to be able to record an interview Charlie or any of these people at any point in time and spoiler alert. I didn't get to interview Charlie. I'll explain that later but I don't want you to think there's some surprise to this where we're like. Then Charlie Watts comes in. You would know the episode will be called my interview with Charlie Watts but it was still amazing so anyway we ended up going to the concert. We go around the back of the Superdome and I meet with Don who's got wristbands for us and we got these. Vip passes at this hotel and that was a whole different thing of just getting them and going into this room. Where they're like you know there's pastries and tennis on TV and rolling stones tickets and stack which was cool but anyway we are at the back of the superdome. Were meeting dawn Stanton rolls in and Then we are entering the back of the superdome go through the metal detector and then boom were like on stage. You basically come in you walk like twenty feet and then you're on stage so there's Charlie's drums there's everyone's gear there's like road cases that they said are just completely full of guitars like fifty guitars and each road case it was just nuts so then Don is like do you guys. WanNa come up and see Charlie's drums so stanton and I get to go up and they're covered with curtains so he lifts the curtain up and they're they are. There's his Gretch Kit with. I believe a DWI snare with the lips on it and the U V symbols and Speed King Pedal and Keith Moon. Stick bag and it's just like an old school. Thrown is kind of like in dented. Like the old leather ones where you can tell someone sat on it for fifty years. So he's like. Why don't you guys get some pictures there? And just it was unreal. So we're hanging out on stage and just being there as long as humanly possible and touching drums and stuff and then don says you WanNa meet Charlie. Of course I was like yes. Let's go do it. So then abby. My wife is like all right. I'll stay here and again. She's super pregnant and Donna's like no you're coming with The key thing I learned is that everyone loves a pregnant lady. It just makes everyone happy And they kind of like took care of her. You can sit here and Donned the whole time was just like. Do you want to sit down? Do you WANNA sit. Can I help you can get you a water? It was awesome very very very nice. So then we get basically taken around the back of the superdome. There's a room that almost has like road signs that are Like named where for each person's Dressing Room so I remember Charlie's was the cotton club which is a classic jazz club Keith Richards was Camp X Ray. So Don Takes Stanton back I to meet Charlie because Charlie knows who stanton is because they were just at the jazz museum and there's a video that features stanton any probably just knows him as a drummer but don knew that that's he had just seen his stuff and was given a pair of Stanton Moore sticks so Yeah so they go back. I'm hanging out talking with this lady at the door. And we're talking we're talking and then the door opens. And then Mick Jagger walks out and it was just like he had this like aura about him. But he's Mick Jagger he just kinda walks right by US and then he gets on a golf cart and just buzzes away in the superdome which was like pretty surreal. Then the door closes and and I can see like Keith Richards in there. And I'm like peeking my head. Is it close. Like can I come in? So they're meeting and hanging out and then dawn comes out and says all right. Why don't you guys come back and meet Charlie so we come through the door down the hall take her right into a dressing room and it is just like nothing? I expected it. Is there's candles? There's big comfy chairs and couches. Charlie standing there ready to greet us. He's got jazz books about New Orleans on the table. He's got a Like a towel over the table. That says the Cotton Club which I believe. I'm kind of assuming but I would assume that each dressing room set up with historical jazz stuff for the city that he's in so he's in. Chicago WILL BE CHICAGO JAZZ books. If he's in New York it would be New York jazz books. That's kind of what I'm gathering. We talk with him. He is just a great guy. We talk about Brooks Taylor. Who is the one who verified that the reason all this happened that that gene Krupa Drum set and gear is actually real? We talked about his collection. He's got he's got a massive collection like warehouse full of like Sonny Payne's drums from the Smithsonian in crates. I I heard. He has like Napoleon Sword. He's got everything so we're talking we're hanging out I was probably fifteen minutes in total. There was absolutely no. It would have been weird if I said let's do the interview. Can I put a microphone on you? It didn't it was it was it didn't happen and it was perfectly fine that way I talked to him about drum history which was awesome. Give him a car. Do all this. We get pictures. Stanton gets pictures. They're talking about stuff And then we're walking out the door. Send great thank you again abby. My wife pregnant. He offers her a seat. She sitting there. It's just really nice. Very nice person. Were walking out the door and then Charlie says to WHO. I don't know it is he says Don. Aren't you going to introduce my friends to the rest of the band? So we're in the hall. And there's Ron Wood and Bernard Fowler. Who is the longtime backup singer for the stones? So I'm just like hey it's nice to meet you guys. We were just talking about this. And I of I gave Bernard a drum history card and then ron wood was like well. I like drums to can. I have one of like this is insane so then Ronnie Wood got a card and we talked about some stuff and then we get taken out and we go back up top and Go Up to the VIP area which again was just amazing Free Beer King Size candy bars which I'm really cheap. So that was my takeaway is I can take some candy bars for like the but then we go and we hang out the show starts don hooked it up so we were up in the pit right in the front on Keith Richards Side. So we're off to the side. They're just enjoying the show. The stones were unbelievable. They played great. There was a barrier that had seats. So Abby could actually sit down for a lot of it because your feet start to hurt. When you're that pregnant it was great. Stones killed we wrapped up into the show. Went Back to the hotel and then we were gone the next day and now because we had the baby six months later ish. I'm releasing this episode Our MARDI Gras. So that's pretty much. It was a unbelievable experience that I owe completely to Don. Mccauley with a huge. Thank you to Brooke Stiegler for getting me in touch And it just goes to show that you never know who's going to check out what you're doing and what what crazy things might happen like. I never thought I'd be hanging out with Stanton more so on that note. Let's start the episode and jump in to my conversation with the Great Stanton more at his practice space bear with me on the quality because I had not really use these recorders that much so it gets a little funky at times but But yeah enjoy the episode. Just about everything can be traced back to some routes that come from the warm absolutely one of the things that I say a lot. Is You know whether you like funk or country or Western or Polka or Norwegian death metal. Yeah all of those. Things have a backbeat. Even if Norwegian death metal the backbeat superfast it still is coming from a backbeat and that backbeat can be traced back to having roots in New Orleans. And what I love to do. Is You know what what will call musical archaeology. Where you start digging deeper and trying to figure out. Where did this come from and so for me? Tracing the backbeat back you know I really personally feel like it's got roots in some of the the marches The European marches the civil war march. Yes with the with the FI. Role Perot wrap wrap up but he started buzzing that Biz Zapped Zapped back. And if you're planning to buzz with just the left hand you're tapping quarter notes with the right. But that that that that that that ZAP buzz buzz buzz up bizarre bizarre bizarre bizarre. Well that BUZZ ZAP ZAP ZAP tagging gaggle. Gagadju gathered. Good Josephine. Get the where do you do? Sacramento back on Gok. It'll that that did that. Start STRAIGHT OUT AND RINGO STARR AND CHARLIE. Watts started straighten things out that they were hearing played by. Earl Palmer Palmer was taken things. That he was hearing played in a jazz context and started slamming that backbeat the whole tune whereas that backbeat might have only been played for the shout choruses and the endings of tunes. And then you've got earl palmer playing that backbeat throughout the whole tune and then you get guys like like Ringo and Charlie straightening that out. I mean that's the whole basis of rock and roll. You know keep in mind when you've got Chuck Berry and even some of the early Elvis stuff and you know but Chuck Berry Little Richard Fats Domino. All that stuff was still based in a swing pulse and then With Elvis stuff was still swung with the early. The early Elvis stuff and things start to really straighten out when you get to the Beatles and yeah and and and the stones and things like that and those guys start straightening these things out and that's when rock and roll really starts to sound more like what we have. Today I mean you still have guys like Lenny. Kravitz and the roots replicating things that the stones and the Beatles were doing in the sixty you know before that stuff stuff was basically swing pulse. So was those guys started. Straightening things out. Then you really have. What a lot of rock and roll sounds like today to this day so backing up. It all started here. Basically that kind of swing that kind of it all evolved and it wasn't overnight. Obviously and he knows some people will make argument that some of it started In Mississippi. And you know in in parts of of other parts of the Mississippi Delta Chirp and that is true You know I mean like you said it didn't happen overnight and it didn't happen all in one house Joe One. Oh Yeah but you know. Most history all Points as New Orleans being you know one of the most integral parts of it. I mean I you can claim full credit. I mean keep remind. Cats were up and down the river. I mean I will say this. I believe that you know predominantly Western music comes from the Mississippi River. Sure you know. Of course you've got Memphis and and You know all these other Places that things did develop to sure you know. It's all coming together down here in the south up and down the Mississippi River. You know so new Orleans though was like such hub of people wanted to come here because it's a cool happening city right so then they would bring their styles together and they would blend when they're playing together. Neighbors and I mean you know as we talk about musical and also historical archaeology. You know a friend of mine. Ned Submit wrote this book called the world that may New Orleans and it's a very indepth detailed account of what makes New Orleans the melting pot that it is some of the ordinances that got passed. Some of the Historical events that happened. That made it so well. This is why this happened this way. This is why you have French. People moving here during that time and them you know mingling with African people and these are the different cultures. And these are the different costumes that actually did merge to create this thing that we all know as this. You know this is why this street is named the street. This is why this Paris is in this parish. Yeah this is you know uptown. New Orleans was a town called Lafayette. And that's why you've got Bourbon Street. You Know Royal Street. Become Saint Charles. When you get across Canal Street there were two different towns uptown was was Lafayette Different Lafayette than the Lafayette. That we know the shoe and a half hours away put. It was a different town and then they both grew into each other to know why you've got you know street that have different names up until Canal Street and so that book. Anybody who's interested in any of this you know especially you? You seem very interested in this stuff. It was very interesting to me to read all of this. And and learn some of the historical you know actualities that contributed to to what happened in music and culture the convergence of European and African culture. We all know that that created this musical melting pot. That made the music of New Orleans. You know it's been said a million times. It's almost cliche now but this musical Gumbo you know You know with Galactic. We have a rule that we we. Won't we won't say that in in any Interviews you know and it is a fitting term but it's now become slightly overused but that book in particular that I just talked about. Ned sublet The world that may New Orleans got it the word meaning that it's just this people all over the world and maybe because I mean there's people some people from around the world who might be listening to this who just don't know exactly what we're talking about. So can you explain a little bit about how the French how that kind of happened? I mean we don't need the whole world history but so they've yeah what was. New Orleans was not Just an integral port city in the United States but normand's was an integral port city for the world the Carribean the Europe. So you know. The first time I went to SA- via Spain the river there a lot of goods are coming from Europe. Come into the river there. And incoming through the port via will then once it leaves the Portis Avia which is a port that servicing much of Europe. Guess where it goes. It comes across the Ocean to Cuba and then into New Orleans. So you've got a direct line between severe. A new warnings is the are the two ports that connect Europe got to the United States. Yeah so then. You've got all this European I culture and goods and people coming over an air coming straight from your to New Orleans sometimes passing through Cuba Allot. Yeah and getting that culture getting that culture and income in to New Orleans and then through the horrible practices of slavery you've got all this forced migration of African people coming over from different parts of Africa a lot of West Africa and coming over and incoming to wear New Orleans you know. Come into some of the other Ports along that the eastern seaboard too but a lot of this is coming from Africa to New Orleans sometimes fastened through Cuba too but this is all African culture winding up eventually in New Orleans European culture winding up in New Orleans. And that's you know french-spanish all these different European cultures winding up in New Orleans and they're mingling with African culture because New Orleans was the only place to allow African slaves to practice their culture really their religion dance and song. Their culture was allowed to be practiced in Congo Square on Sundays up until about the time of the civil war and this was practiced in Congo Square and on Sundays. Much to the Chagrin of a Catholics but the thinking while New Orleans was under Spanish rule Spanish Governing forces felt that it would promote harmony within the ranks of the slaves if they were allowed to practice their own culture that they were accustomed to from Africa. Got It so they said well. Why don't we let them practice their their culture and have a market where they could sell things that they have been working on and making in their free time while on the different plantations. Sure so these These African people were allowed to come into Congo Square. Bring THEIR GOODS. Sell THEIR GOODS DANCE. Play music and and and and And seeing and practice their religion which a lot of times their religion they would have to also mask that religion and they would take some of their deities and give them Catholic saint names that became some of the Santa Maria and are also became some of the things that that we see in. You know this is all cliff notes version. Obviously you can go a lot of deep. I don't really consider myself a historian on this stuff I've read You know stuff to educate myself on this yet. Guys like Ned submit can like sit here and rattle off. Ordinances that happened. You know that led to this and that and and and Ned is is just so brilliant in both his writings and in person you know but So anybody who is interested in these things I would I would suggest further reading some of NEDS. Bork's in you know there's tons of other stuff. I'm sure that I'll create a list that we can difference that we can put in Lynx. People can check now. People can check out for further reading if you're interested in and these things but You in general. You had all this convergence of European and African culture and and it wasn't just you know African General I mean. It was very specific from you. Know different parts of Angola and and and the Congo and western parts of Africa and certain certain customs certain rhythms certain specific things from certain specific areas turned into certain specific things In warm it's you know. And that's you know all the things that that made New Orleans so so unique and made it so special to this day me was only place in the United States that allowed African people to practice their culture. So you've got any warrants. You've got African culture being kept alive and being allowed to to kind of integrate with European culture. And he's things start creating. I mean you take European marches right which are very straight up and down and he started having African rhythms. Start to kind of Knicks some of their stuff. And you get you know from but rat bat racquet the that a racket about Bob Bob. Were then you start getting a two three cloudy as come in with roots from Africa? Developing incubus or two three clause. They'd be Joe Barton Dab in New Orleans as we all know were below sea level. So things start to round out a little bit hot muggy. Yes and And you know you just kind of you know things start to become a little bit more relaxed. Yeah kind of WAVY IN A. Yes the the rhythm that that is cut cut cut in. New Orleans starts to become got got got got. It becomes rounded out. See get Iraq racquet racket that around who jagged the bones Gecko get a boom boom. You get that mixing with European instruments which. Let's keep in mind trumpets TROMBONE CLARINET SAX phones? The brass-band Yeah Bass Drum snare drum. Those are all European instrument. Yeah but then you start getting some of the the African rhythms that start to start to migrate An influence in a start to blend with and influenced some of the European rhythms. Well then that's what you start to get the birth of this whole second line tradition. Which of course second line is coming from the the funeral processions and the notion that the you know you talk to different people on your different accounts but the basically the hers and the family are the first line and then the ban and the the people celebrating the life of that person That's the second line got it. And that's procession like the afterlife and it with the Culture here. I'm sure that's extremely important. And the music was a big part of that. Bright one nine percent. Yeah okay okay. So in New Orleans we celebrate. Someone's passing in. We celebrate their life and we celebrate. Hopefully the notion that they're going up to a better place and you know this is also coming from a very African tradition for You know funeral procession and funeral Celebration is has roots in in in African history and culture as well so you know here in New Orleans. That's what you have going on as people parading in the streets but in European instruments and rhythms are influenced by African rhythms. And An. But you still playing on European instruments but then you also start getting Gospel Hymns and melodies. That are coming out of some of the Gospel Churches so you get those songs being you know. Gospel songs and hymns being played on European instruments with with African rhythms. Yeah and that's what kids are growing up younger. People are growing up hearing that so it's in their psyche to have those rhythms and stuff so then it becomes a part of who you are. Yeah right I mean you grow up around it and you don't even know that you know you go to other. You know talking about this people all the time like you know you grew up in war and she started traveling the world. You're like wait a minute. That's a that's not a graveyards. Where all the graves? Oh no they everywhere else in the world they actually put people around here in New Orleans. Yeah he got everybody above ground you start realizing how different New Orleans is any like wait. This isn't funeral. Where's where's where's the bank? You know it's not a party but it is. It's a celebrate celebrate life. Yeah and yeah and and and it is respectful and and it is meant to honor that person in their life. And you know you don't want to say it's a party and make it sound like celebrating the fact that the person is GonNa. They're celebrating their life and they're celebrating the notion that the person is going on to a better place and that culturally where a lot of people would hear music because in this what. What time frame are we looking at right now with this like are we talking early? Nineteen hundreds late eighteen hundreds. You definitely I mean I. It's a good question. When did it start by the The late eighteen hundreds definitely. It was a practice that was was you know very common And you had the social aid and pleasure clubs that would You know back then. They weren't social aid and pleasure clubs yet. They were benevolent. Society's so a lot of African People of African descent couldn't get life insurance. Couldn't afford a funeral at the end of their life so they would pay into these benevolent societies and then at the end of their life the benevolent society would hire the band and would help with the funeral costs and then that eventually developed into social aid employer clubs. And that's why you've got you know. During the year on Sundays. You've got second lines that happened and each socially aid and pleasure club. They'll throw a second line to celebrate their organization and is not necessarily because somebody passed. They just have a second line. So you'll have you know all these different Socially and pleasure clubs. Doing you know seconds on Sundays. What is a social aid and pleasure? Club? What is that mean is coming from the benevolent societies which started off as a formal Kind of a community service that you'd buy into that would if you needed help say your house flooded and got insurance. Yeah but as an African American back then you couldn't get life insurance. You couldn't get insurance so they would create these benevolent societies for themselves. So that if if you needed help so you'd pay your dues and then you'd pay into this society and then and then it when you. When it came time for your funeral they would help. Cover those costs if you needed help. Your House burned down or develop hard times or your house flooded. They would help with things like that and then eventually became socially aid and pleasure club and he paid dues into Social Aid and pleasure club and then as part of a member every at least once a year they throw second line. They throw a party in the street. Hard band so and in along the route people grill and people are hanging and And dancing in the streets a parade from one place to another and along the route. You'll have people stationed cooking cooking up all kinds of different great stuff to eat and Good time it's a great time party in the street that's awesome. My question then is at this time. We got the European instruments. We've got the base drum. We've got the snare. They're not together yet. The former drum set hasn't been put together where someone's some their planned separate things kick drum we it's an double drumming hasn't existed yet. We're double drumming refers to as you know Bass Drum and snare together and I've heard that it pop. It started really early on. I'm sure there's other places but in New Orleans where the guy gets the marching bass drum? Maybe he doesn't even have a pedal for it yet because it hasn't been invented correct. He takes a snare drum. Puts IT ON? A chair Right so things are changing early. Nineteen hundreds now. Let's jump over to Greg. Lamb Luzia the New Orleans jazz museum for no other reason Think of economy of having one person playing these drums versus Bass Drum player my playing the symbols of snared Cetera so a DVD chandler is credited with being the first ones to move data from pedal to his Chose Bass drum and ed other drums around it and sneered CETERA. And this this this based on pedals from the top and the those are like the overhang kind of pedal. Right which is a kind of a unique. It's interesting to see stuff like that. And then you end up and you think Oh. Why don't you just put it on the ground but you don't you take that for granted? Knowing that how a Bass Drum pedal would work or even having a pedal to begin with and putting the the because the bass drum it didn't have feed on it. It was just sitting there. It was an old marching bass drum. That's right that's right in the You must must've been you know certain Vanessa plays the based on pedal Keb like if you have an old one that you played with You might have to sit in a circle. I'm sure these these overhangs. It took a little while to get used to getting some good sound from Sherman's definitely plausible. Can you explain a little bit? We haven't really talked about that particular pedal on the On the show now. Do you know more details about it. Yes we have one in In the exhibit was the one That Papa. Jack Laine who was He he Had a number of brass bands going at once eighteen eighties. All the way up to the twenties But he created his own pedal In its own kid to but This one so clamps to one side of the drum basically the front the Front Remember right of the front drumhead comes back and then there's a an clamps onto the backs Ram Spring mechanism the spring and then it connects to another mechanism goes over to the batter head side. And then there's the pedal kinda hangs and it's Then there's another piece that sits on the floor of the title is a you know pulling back on on on the on that space. Nine thousand nine hundred. Ninety nine is the year that Ludwig manufactured and mass produced a based on pedal that was actually a workable pedal that they actually market it. Yeah and that is really when drum set starting to take off and people started buying that pedal and putting it on the drums and then adding Chinese Tom. Toms Chinese symbols and all these things blocks yeah. Most historians are on the same page. Adidi channel was the first guy to applying a pedal to the Bass Drum and playing the Bass snare drum as a set to drum. Yeah cool cool okay. That's awesome and then from there it just sort of blows up and this is. It's cool like these were marching bass. Drums there's no. There's no feet on them. They're just up correct. Yeah and then. People started making clip on Spurs base from sliding moving forward. Never Lady invented the snare stand. I think that's probably debatable. Tube they mass produced the snare stand which is just out of necessity. Yeah and that that was really part of what helped move the drums that along to coming up with a snare stand. That was short enough that you could sit down and yeah right because I mean I would imagine there. Were stare stands for classical snare drum in orchestras at in thinking about but to come up with the stairs Dan. That was that went low enough to sit down a drum set. Way that short snared on San and the baseroom pedal together. And then you really start to have what becomes the beginning of the drum set. Yeah exactly which in New Orleans and one thing. I've seen with watching the guys at preservation hall yesterday is that there's this kind of like you'd have a hi hat a ride and but early on they'd obviously have they wouldn't have rides. They'd have like the little China and stuff but it's Kinda accents and little details. Void Block with blocks ratchets. Yep How else? Yep Yeah it's fun. Oh yeah you know. Yeah of course I mean you know. Playing the drums is like the greatest thing ever agreed. Yeah cool so So then going through the nineteen hundreds just in the history of New Orleans drumming. I mean so it just keeps evolving then basically and we go through the Mardi Gras Indians. That are a part of the history of yeah now. Let's learn more about the Mardi Gras Indians from Walter Harris at preservation? Jazz Hall a monograph. Any coach basically is a culture of African Americans. That preserve a tradition that had gathered from their ancestors. Bet were runaway slaves that ran and migrated would need it native Americans the native Americans migrated need an all of them. Wisconsin the same border kind of trying to dodge the the the Europeans. You know it was in pretty much dodged a European so they kind of banded together in the law of the culture and tradition of the natives so a lot of east African Americans Migrating Wallin's and I'm sure that it was the homeland Indians that the had learned a lot of Easter cultures from what I'm gathering because that's like the closest trauma we have here. Yeah yeah coming through. It would have been a similar was coming through Florida. Learn these traditions that cultured from these natives. They are learn how to be out of. She wears how to build this India regale. Yeah and they also did a lot of some breeding a lot of dancing. A lot of drumming allowed dancing to to pretty trip on Khomych through the natives wants to African wants to Africans got a hotel became something else. Yeah and he migrated the bamboo latour so it became wobble. Took took Typo in a more elaborate to the salary. The secretary you know. Oh to to the natives. They adopted this culture. Tradition Mardi gras Indian not a we became the Mardi gras any just their mighty. Gratias was a celebration. Net was not inclusive of the African Americans. Really okay a European celebration for all the wealthy Europeans and the you know not so look repairs. The wealthy Europeans will be the ones actually parade and unwieldy Europeans would actually be the ones Patronizing would be the ones you know. Patriotic career going to the African Americans would be the ones that would be the parade. GotTa beat a was walk in the horses. It will be the ones cleaning the harsh it. Anyway lighten the street for the Europeans to have fun so when it came to mighty crowd bank stock to change and I think it was right around town when Geronimo head defeated custody in the African Americans decided that they were GonNa have their own puree. They use their culture. The new coaching tradition as Indians to flaunt and pretty much aggravate the hell out of the Europeans. Yeah like we're doing fine. We're having fun. We have a front and also we represent a culture that straight demolished draw basically so it really was done out of arrogance and out of all done for you know like to be a part of the Mardi Gras was actually became a mighty gruffly African American. Yeah so then from different neighborhoods you would have these guys representing the neighborhoods. Mass Indians but using the culture as what form and that's where the colorful clothing comes from arms which is just unbelievable. I mean it is so cool but he come from you know. African Americans building on the Almighty Almighty graduate had nothing to do with the traditional Mardi gras which was wrecks in bacchus and all of these big migrate crews which were wealthy Europeans that flaunted their money and from what I understand me through on a float back. Then deal with throwing the things that they didn't want anymore which other people find valuable in turned into so it wasn't like the traditional like obviously now people throw beads symbolic best symbolic of that. Oh My Gosh. Wow Coal exactly Of Light Really Great Trinkets in the midst of them to the spectator like peasants pretty much. Yeah pretty much giving back to the to the to the need and then That's what a mighty Indians derive. It's the thing that influences me. The most I mean when I sit down on the drums the whole reason. I've got a pond darrow. On my left and a cowbell on my left and all this other stuff is because. I'm trying to approximate. Mardi GRAS INDIAN. Percussion going on with the funk stuff in doing so. I'm trying to sound like you know two or more cats playing together but is that a plan. Percussion that sounds like afro-cuban Congress into Bali's Mike Mardi gras Indian cow bells and tambourines and floor. Toms yeah mixed in with what I'm doing. That's really what I'm trying to do. So I owe a lot to the Mardi gras Indian rhythms music and culture. I'm I'm really trying to draw from that as much as I possibly can It seems like that everything you hear from New Orleans. Has that kind of like a group of drummers. Walking down the street you know every all these sounds cowbells tambourines everything put into one person and then you throw some trombones and some stuff over it. And that's the New Orleans sound. They obviously influenced the whole world. Everybody the Monterey Canyon stuff influences everybody from New Orleans Orleans But for me personally. I've tried to take things like sticking an the approach of David Garibaldi. Where he's taking he's sticking he's adding Texture to these takings by adding in Swiss trip. What's an all I mean? It's it's a concept that I talk about all the time. Poor Dave all these probably sick of hearing me talk about you know Garibaldi. Izing stuff. But that's what I talk about that. Okay you got the sticking. That's cool Banal. It's add texture to it and then when you start splitting up that textured sticking and its texture now because you've added flames and and was triplets to it and I start splitting it up to instruments that I've you know borrowed from Mardi Gras Indian music and culture. So that's why I have like. I said that's why we're at the Ponderosa Tune. Low Mike from underneath order. Sound like a mix between a tambourine and abrasive. And then I split that stuff up between that and a cowbell and different other things and weird sounding Pete engelhardt percussion or whatever other things. I feel like China incorporate. An I'm using those cities in those text rise variations of those takings split up between Mardi gras Indian Sounds right and An An and coming up with with you know all kinds of stuff based off that and I mean have of done that All throughout my my career and I continue to do it and the more I do it the more I fall in love with it and the more I learn about it and the more I come up with new ideas on my ooh this. Yeah I'm coming up with these ideas and it's all based out of Nixon to Mardi gras Indian stuff with linear and layered and textured contemporary drum concepts. Yeah that I've learned from Steve Gadd David Garibaldi and countless other incredible drummers and then I'm just try taking their concepts and trying to apply Mardi gras Indian stuff too man i. It's just it's the Gumbo you know but but you know and I love doing that. I'm just trying to contemporaries and modernize the New Orleans stuff absolutely and especially the Mardi Gras in himself. So and then just take it on home with us so the New Orleans drumming style just evolved over time basically with the jazz its own sound still. You can still hear New Orleans style. But it's still evolving. I'm sure right. It's it's just never ending but you hear these guys. I talked with a Joe last e last night about it about how it's not it's fun and it's not like like showy where like an arena. Rock Drummer spinning a stick. Like that. It's more of like you`re. You're you're theatrical with your plane. Never going back to preservation jazz hall to talk with Joe. Last who had just seen perform a few minutes earlier and you'll hear Don McCauley chiming in a few times off Mike as well. We'll really I grew up playing Hafez and the other when I developed this way that's when I started playing on Bourbon Street soon as I started playing on Bourbon Street. That's when I started development my spouse self Other wait yeah yeah yeah. Yeah it's almost you've got a kind of a loose and I should. I should ask you because I haven't seen a ton of music around here yet. Is your style of play. Obviously it's your own way but is it is it is it are people having a similar style and just the kind of how would you define? New Orleans drumming. Will you know right? I told you is definitely out of the church okay. I'm you got to do that. Gumbel two Gumbel starts with a root and the root is. Where is the drums two drums bass but the the what separate New Orleans Music? I say this and I keep telling people this is church. Is that church? Feel new. What else do hipping onto Indian. Be Like Mardi gras Indian. I was just talking to Walter and the AD ending embiid. Yep Yep I've heard the bass drum and just that the the lowest drum referred to his mother drums from like those call duct duct the pulse and heartbeat. So you put Indian polls in church pulse. Oh you get asking will. So we're sitting there and you guys just walk in and you've got your bag and you guys as Donald. You're walking into work. It was just awesome. You kinda you don't get there two hours before and set up your drum set right. I mean it's already i. It's just fun the floor time around move the snare and then you're young and then you guys are just like I mean shift in a good way right and it's another thing to everybody like they own some move by the way they do. Go sit on anybody drums any symbols. Anything and I'm won't be me. I'm going to bring me out of those drums and I'm sitting on. Yeah I'm kill drums. It is absolutely assembles. Ao because there are a lot of people say why are you using sem? Why everytime time you go somewhere you don't change the symbol? I said because to symbol like it. I'll make the some like I wanted to solve your exact. Yeah yeah that's awesome. You can make a cheap drum set. Some island I've been told that so many time when we didn't think we could get us out of those drums for my kids. But also you know like when you watch saying Powell. I mean Shannon Powell will put on a show for you while you're sitting there watching him showing you. How soft and amazingly beautifully smooth. He can play a buzz role and make everybody in the room. WanNa get up and dance at a whisper and he. He's he likes if he's looking at you and winking at you feel like check out. How bad this shit is exactly GEICO. Ooh That's bad. He's living barely moving. Barely touching the drums and everybody in the room is either out of their seats on edge of their seat. And he's not trying to be showy he is trying to impress you but he's impressive you with absolute control and finance at musicality. He's looking at checkout bad issues. Right here Oh shackled go go all it's killing you look at I really. Yeah that's bad you're like the baddest dude world. Pick up sticks more than six inches off. They had her run. Your God you're the baddest ever seen in my life. Yeah man so you're obviously representing New Orleans drumming around the world and you're a great ambassador for it Where can people find you? Where can they hear you? Well they can find me at stanmore DOT com. But really the thing that I'm most excited about is my Drum Academy Stanton Moore Drum Academy Dot Com. I'm filming where in my studio right now. I'm filming video lessons in here all the time. And I'm putting those up on my academy description based site and there's a forum where guys are interacting with me all the time asking me questions. I'm making videos based off their questions. And a writing out. All these worksheets that go with the videos. There's over three hundred pages of written worksheets. There's over twenty hours of videos also starting to do interviews. I just did an interview with Adam. Dykes did an interview with Keith car. Lock sitting in these same seats that were sitting right now and I'm just putting up content all the time so if anybody's interested in what I have to say on the drumming side of things I would love to have y'all come check out stanton more German KADEMI DOT com of course I'm on instagram and facebook but also I've been putting a lot of content on Youtube. Some of it is abbreviated lessons. And in some of it is Stuff like jazz fest. Recap a Mardi gras recap. I just did. And then when I was playing with the Mardi Gras Indians and then I'm about to just filmed and we're about to edit a red rocks capped so even if you're not necessarily a drama but you're a fan of music fan of what I'm doing. The Youtube Channel Has Stuff. That's not just drumming. You know music based stuff too so all of those channels. Yep and on the road with Galactic Galactic every Tuesday at Snug Harbor With my piano trio David Talk announce key James Singleton my band members in Galactic. And I we just purchased Tippett. Tina's so you know if you love norms music come to the house of funk. He no preservation hall is the House of of jazz preservation we are the house of funk preservation great. Yeah so Come check us out and Yeah that's awesome all the things I'm involved they're cool. I appreciate you being on the show today. Thank you Barak me. Yeah appreciate it. Thank you for having me and yes. Thank Golfer checking it out records. I hope you've enjoyed this New Orleans special episode We're not going to close it out with our friend Greg. Lamb boozy from the New Orleans Jazz Museum. Who's GonNa describe some of his favorite pieces from the drums? Ville evolution of New Orleans. Beat yes so. There's Co one of my favorites is Baby tugs blood we kit. It's the White Shapiro. The set that he had and Curious stories anyway so we have been with the museum for just close to twenty six years now and And when that started off I was doing inventory of the collection and I came across a little scrap of paper that said Maybe dodgers nephew had his Chicago number on it. So it's a look when we give them a call and You don't have anything from your uncle. Do you need to go? Yeah got the The lovely kit in my closet. I'll I'll mail it to you and a couple of weeks later we had this beautiful children It's the one that he is. He did all the films. And the instructional Instructional films that centered on. Wow so it's a pretty pretty incredible kid would still with the letterheads man. That's awesome now. Why don't we don't a little more detail about that? Like what is what are the pieces what is it. I mean how are the heads the heads have to be you know calf scan our yeah really well so there's You know it has the I think the twenty four inch page based on I'd Love Week Speedmaster I think if I'm right Based on pedal then he's got Like a twelve inch. Tom And I think either thirteen or fourteen inch. I can't remember that floor time and Some really nice set of Of Lip blocks cowbells and he didn't. He was known for his dislike of the of the hi hat really Williams love we could. Y- measured his foot. I think for the for the Both for the the Bass pedal and also for the early High boy which was kind of condensed version of of the hi hat. Yeah predated the hi hat. But he baby dodds said he didn't didn't like that and rather be playing the snare trump versus on the high end. Yeah and that's that whole. It's Kinda cool. How as I've gone through a lot of these histories. It's like where where the drummer keeps. The time is what changes and kind of tells you about that That era so if you're if you're keeping the time on the snare typically before a certain time but then the hi hat the ride come in but So he's old school he Ford in eighteen ninety eight or whatever as I'm as I'm looking here he is definitely. That's you know whatever you're used to so that's really cool. That's yeah and also cool that he connects with the beginnings of those things. But it's interesting because with drum set like that it makes you wonder if he's obviously connected with William F Ludwig the first and all that stuff. And if it's kind of custom order drum kit and if it sounds like he would be like an early endorser sorta thing where it's you know you'd be very proud to have him on your your roster exactly. I don't know if this is an area of your expertise but baby dodds is one of those people where he is basically pre kind of modern recordings and a lot of videos where you don't see him very much can you. Maybe give us a little bit of a background on who he is and where he's from and what he did short show so he you know he was. He wasn't from New Orleans. He was from Mississippi but he ended up playing early as a youngster in New Orleans played with With Louis Armstrong. I think for liberating Oliver. You know all the early grades and And really influenced early drumming Pretty heavily and so you know. He's on all the The eights and all that stuff Louis Armstrong But later on in During the revival of Neurons Jazz and thirties and forties people went back to them and said they wanted to him and and Record You know oral histories with them and in film him performing etc so Larry Gary was one of those people. He ended up writing a really interesting book on on. Baby Dodds is lights and recorded about twenty four hours of interviews including demonstrations on that very chip that we have. Yeah and let me get Larry still alive. He ended up doing any of those recordings to us. And we've since the jets is those making those available most you go a a record label for the museum. Let's go Gallatin street records and those will be available soon on On that label Cool it'll be online soon. Cool that's awesome. Yeah he's I feel like baby. Dodds and chick. Webb both kind of fall in this category of being before like the gene croup is and those that kind of wrecks and the Joe Jones those next generation of like people who could be filmed and could be shared that way so That's really neat Cool yeah what what other. What other stuff you've got going on there. Let's see we also have one of One of James Blacks Sets of course they kinda fess words to the sixties and Seventies. James Black was incredibly ones. Roy Moore played with Yusef teat. Yussef Latif and Eddie. Bohan others and From you know really Hardcore contemporary jazz from the time to to Super Funky New Orleans music with any Bo. He was he was comfortable with all of that and traditional traditional jazz and jazz and CETERA. But but we have one of his one of his remote kids he was a remote Rep Fortunate to have that they came through burning southern. Who is the father of the Donnas? Rose the jazz drummer and And Vernon Vernon father was a drummer. So there's there's a lot of history that he he They'RE NOT JEANS BACK. Todd burning to play the drums as well of course as FOB. And but There's a real lineage there so we have some Si- Snare Drum from Stanton board that he That he has provided to us as well as Really cool one of the original mentioned on Ludwig based from pedals. This is the first and ask Bass Drum pedal. Yeah and so saying Stan has learned that to us for the exhibit See drummed from Shannon Towel Herlin Riley Joe Last a List goes on and on and that's great but there's some really cool stuff in there and and also A lot of photography too Some great photographs by some of the leading neurons to talk refers Also we have some drums that onto us from the southern university. I'm African Art Collection. And at least there's some some west African drums that are in the Congo Square's action. It's been fun Putting this thing exhibit together and I should mention that David is there. Is there curator? He ended up Cadillac Get the majority work on the exhibited did a fantastic job and So we're lucky to have them with US and We've had contributions from Stanton and and in many others. No Stanton Moore is a great modern representation of that New Orleans sound and there's kind of a shuffle to it and it's that jazz but it's not. I feel like that kind of jazz doesn't take itself too serious. If that makes sense like it's right it's fun. Yeah Yeah it's fun. And he's mixing it with other styles with funk soul and other things and But you know standing He just purchased t and his up and purchase. A teen is which is one of the Really cold nightclubs here in New Orleans and Really keeps the traditions going. And so we're we're we're excited that He stepped in and keeping keeping the club. Moving Forward Stanton also those on a drum camp with us every year. And it's GonNa shirts and I think it starts around December twelfth or so and so they'll have a folks in from around the country and he gives a number of Individual lessons he brings in people like John. Johnny Johnny Bitch and Shannon Powell to give individual lessons Frankie teaches that teaches the cam cool. Well I'm sure if anyone's around The New Orleans area. And you're listening to this then you'll You'll obviously want to go and check all this stuff out but When you talk a little bit more about the museum in general like what are you guys do and what are some special events and all that all that kind of cool stuff. Sure so we you know we were a museum and of course we do exhibit. It's like drums bill We do about eighty a year We've recently opened a really fun exhibit on on Louis Prima and that's Thanks in large part to the gym and only Prima Foundation Also an exhibit of Eric wauters photography some incredible photography of Mardi Gras Indians and other cultural beers in New Orleans But we also do performances. That's the way this incredible performance on a third floor Really really great sounding room. We'd have performances daily Tuesday through Friday at two o'clock then often concerts in the evening and we do about twenty festivals annually. I museum takes takes up an attorney city block and we have seventy thousand square feet of grounds and so we'll have multiple stages on either side of the building sort of bigger festivals. And when that's coming up at SATCHMO says On a on a good weekend with good weather I think the largest problem we had was around fifty. Four thousand people and It's a pretty big pretty big subtlety that one and then French quarter fast. We'RE BIG PART OF THAT. One and river histon another great. The Danny Barker Festival It takes place in January but So we do a lot of that and then also educational activities where we Like you know Stanton. Moore's camp falls within that but we also love K. Through twelve programming and field trips And we're about to open up a new education center. Little tick up an entire winning but a first floor of the building. We'll have that activated in time for Satchmo us for them to have their had. The educational activities take place within their. Wow Man people are lucky to be To have that in their in their city. That's for sure thank you thank you. We love it. And we're our location like I said before we're between We're in the French quarter. But we're like towards the edge on this one eight avenue which is Right between the French market and a Frenchman Street were level luggage. It takes place in the city so jazz is very much alive and well obviously in New Orleans Cool will greg Thank you so much for talking to me. And I'll tell people right now that they can go to Nola. No L. A. Jazz Museum Dot Org Nola Jazz Museum Dot Org and it is the New Orleans Jazz Museum and the exhibit is called Drums Ville. What was the full the evolution of? I'll let you say that again. Yeah sure it's drums belt levels of New Orleans speed and and also wanted to give a plug for some of our social if you go to at Nola Jazz Museum. You'll find us on. Instagram twitter facebook. Excellent Coil Everyone. Be sure to check that out. And if you're around New Orleans then head to the New Orleans Jazz Museum Greg. Thanks so much for talking with today man. If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave review and let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future until next time. Keep on learning this. Is gwen sound podcast?