Champagne Sharks Book Club: Settlers Pt. 9
Hey champagne sharks has goi- t and we are doing and we are continuing with settlers and we're doing chapter nine. This one is really long. So we're going to end up doing half chapter nine for this episode and the second half of chapter nine in the next episode but after this the chapters get shorter so one have to read too much. More of this book will be able to do for some weeks multiple chapters and when episodes so without further ado We have winfield. Reading is prerecorded and also for winward done when it's time to talk this Don't forget to give your name. So the people listening at home have a name to put with the voice. But i'll remind you guys of that after the reading passages well so further ado. Let's get this started gin in the us section chapter nine neocolonial pacification in the us section one forcing democracy on native americans. We don't have to across the world to confront neo-colonialism since some of the most sophisticated examples. Right here the new deal reforms on the native american reservations during the nineteen thirties or a classic case of neo colonial strategy. The us empire has always had a special problem with the indian nations in that the varied ways of life were often communistic as us commission of indian affairs said in eighteen thirty eight common property and civilization cannot coexist the us government enacted a genocidal campaign to erase indian culture including prison schools for indian children suppression of indian institutions economy and religion. And still the indian nations and people survived resisted endured an am comrades pointed out the founding fathers of the united states equated capitalism with civilization. They had to give him the mentality to them. Civilization meant their society which was a capitalist society therefore from the earliest times the was against indians. We're not only to take over the land. But also to squash the threatening example of indian communism jefferson was not the only man of his time to advocate imposing capitalistic and possessive society on indians away to civilize them. The bad example was a real threat. The real reason the eastern indian nations from florida to new york state and from the atlantic's ohio and louisiana. Today so racially mixed is because indentured servants landless. Poor whites escaped black. Slaves chose our societies over the white society that had oppressed them beginning eighteen ninety s. We'd been red baited and brandon as commies in congress. See the congressional record and in the executive boards of churches that was a very strong weapon in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties and end the oklahoma area any indian traditional. Who was an organizer was called the communist so even a wobbly so we have always defined struggle not only as a struggle for land but also struggled to retain our cultural values those values are communistic values our societies were and all communistic societies the. Us government has always understood. That very well is not branded us. All the years as communist because we try to form labor unions or because we hung out with the iwk w or the communist party but because the us government correctly identified a political system. It did not make that a public issue because that would have been dangerous and because it has been far more efficient to say that we are savages and primitive not only did the indian nations resists but this resistance included that determined refusal of many indians to give up their collective land. This rejection capitalism was a hindrance for the open now recording your interests and the ranchers characteristically. The new deal decided in the words of the us. Commissioner of indian affairs that the indian if given the right opportunities could do what the government had failed to do. He could arrange a place for himself and his customs in this modern america. The new deal pesification program for the reservations was to give indians capitalistic. Democracy and self government under the direction of the us government bourgeois democratic a undemocratic trouble governments were set up with settling ristic travel constitutions paid elected officials new layers of indian civil servants in other words indians would be given their own capitalistic reservation. Governments to do from within or the settlers conquest had been unable to completely completely succeed at from the outside. This neocolonial strategy was led by a young liberal anthropologists john. Kelly had been appointed. Us commission of indian affairs in one thousand nine hundred eighty three to reform the reservation system unlike the openly hostile and repressive pronouncements of his predecessors. Call your spoke sweetly of how much he respected indian culture and how much indians should be freed to change themselves. Honeyed words indeed covering up for a new assault in the past. The government tried to encourage economic independence and initiative by the allotment system given each indian portion of land and the right to dispose of it as a result of the one of the one hundred and thirty eight thousand acres which indians possessing eighteen. Eighty seven they've lost all but forty seven thousand acres and the las area includes a land that was most valuable further. The government sought to give the indian the schooling of whites teaching him to despise his old customs and habits barrick. We have proposed in opposition to such a policy to recognize respect the indian s. He is we think you must be so accepted before he can be assisted to become something else. There is a smooth talk of the welfare administrator and the colonial official in those words noticed that the o log indians only one right the right to sell their land to the settlers having worked that strategy to its limits the us empire now needed to switch strategies in order to keep exploiting the rest of the reservation lands now washington pose as a protector of indian culture in order to change indians into something else. Officially indian culture had become another suspected ethnic remnant like saint. patrick's day parades. I would add color to settlers society. But instead of indian sovereignty culture economy and national development travel government was a local government. According to the rules of capitalist culture it was a partial reorganization of reservation life to capitalism the nineteen. Thirty four wheeler how'd act repealed. The eighteen eighty seven allotment act authorized elections passed new trouble constitutions to set up new neocolonial reservation governments establish a ten million loan funds to support the new government's and officially give indians preference for employment within the us indian service. The campaigns twist indian arms to accept. This new arrangement was very heavy. Us commission collier himself admitted that while the government had the power to force her as vicious to accept these bourgeois governments for the strategy to work. At least some number of indians had be persuaded to voluntarily take it in large numbers of indians heights to work in the indian service the numbers reaching forty percent of the total employees by nineteen. Thirty five nineteen thousand. Indians were hired to work in various federal programs while additional fourteen thousand worked in the civilian conservation corps relief camps close at twenty percent of all adult indians were temporarily employed by the federal government. The distrust and resistance were considerable. The times commented this difficulty has been recognized by the creation of the indian office of an organization unit of feel agents and special men who will cooperate with travel councils. Business committees and special trouble commissions in framing. The constitution now permitted still some fifty four reservations with a five thousand. Indians voted against the new travel. Government's history has proved that the main economic function of the neil colonial reservation. Governments has been to lisa way usually at bargain prices. The mineral grazing and water rights to the settlers. Great amounts of natural resources are involved very conservative. You're american estimates said indian lanza estimated to contain up to thirteen percent of the nation's coal reserves three percent of its oil and gas and significant amounts of of other minerals including uranium and phosphate instead of the practice of individual sale of small plots of land. Which could be blocked by an indians refusal to sell the new capitalistic travel. Government signed wholesale mineral rights leases with major corporations the navajo travel government led by the bureau of indian affairs sign leases as late as one thousand nine hundred sixty s that gave way never hope co for two percent of its market value so the impact of the nineteen thirties self-government reforms was a step of the economic exploitation of indian nations at pineridge the su- families were encouraged to end this since farming and move off their land and into government built housing projects and then lease the useless land to the settlers businessman. Those american ranchers pay an average of three dollars per acre each year to process indian land fought cheaper than buying it while the su who insists on staying on their land deliberately denied water electricity seed in last stuck so as to pressure them into leaving their land. The euro american ranchers who use indian land receive constant government aid and control the land and its resources still remains a steady preoccupation to the settlers empire even most of the food production of indian nations is taken by settlers in nineteen sixty eight. The bureau of indian affairs said that the reservations produce then one hundred and seventy million annually in agriculture hunting and fishing of this total estimated. That indians consumed twenty million dollars. Worth roy receiving another sixteen million dollars in rent seventy five percent of the total reservation food production was owned by settlers. Us imperialism literally created bourgeois indian governments other reservations to give it what it wanted to disrupt from within the national culture. These the government's led by the dick wilson c. peter mcdonald's of elements whose capitalistic ideology and income was tied to collaboration with the logic hapless world is also telling that those professional indians whose wellbeing dependent upon foundation grants and government programs such as vine delory junior also of his bestselling book custody fia sins praised the koya reorganization of the thirties. As the best thing that ever happened to them. When native americans overcome the neo colonial rule and assert their sovereignty against us imperialism as am has than the fixed ballot is reintroduced is introduced by assassination frame ups and even massive military repression. The us military moved in one thousand nine hundred seventy two to prop up the neo-colonial dick wilson regime pine ridge just as in zaire the neo-colonial mobutu regime had to be rescued in both nineteen seventy seven and nineteen seventy eight by airborne french foreign legionnaires and belgian paratroopers section to the rise of the african nation. The white bosna said who is making a war on them and is going to take the government but we were organizing for bread one of the camp hill alabama shakra defendants nine hundred and thirty one. The new african national struggle moved decisively into the modern period during the nineteen twenties in one thousand nine hundred thirty s. It was a key indication of this development that thousands of african communist took up the liberation struggle in those years years in which many african workers and intellectuals dedicated themselves so the goal of an independent and socialist african nation the masses themselves intensified their political activities angry increasingly nationalistic in this period nationalism started visibly shouldering aside all other political tendencies in the struggle for the allegiance of the oppressed african massey's the self self-defence activities spread among the masses. This was a critical time in the rise of the african nation and the critical time therefore for us imperialism. There's an incorrect tendency to confine the discussion of african nationalism in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties to the well known garvey movement as though it was the sole manifestation of nationalist consciousness the garvey movement who specific impact. We shall cover at a later. Point was but the point of the emergent politics of the african nation in labor in national culture struggles for the land in raising the goal of socialism in all areas of political life. Great explosion of previously pence up national consciousness took place among africans in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. It was a time of major political offensive and of embryonic nation building. This outbreak of militant african anti-colonialism did not go unnoticed by the us empire even outside the national territory itself. Us imperialism was increasingly concerned about this activity. One nineteen thirties. Report on radicalism. Among new york negroes noted the place of the negro as a decisive minority in the political life in america received increasing attention during the early postwar years department of justice issued a twenty seven page report on radicalism in sedition among negroes as reflected in their publications and the new york state lusk committee for the investigation of seditious activities published. A complete chapter in its report entitled radicalism among negroes the general anti-labour anti radical offensive of government and employers was also levels at the trade union and radical activities of the negro people for a time. Censorship of negro periodicals became so complete but even the molly liberal magazine crisis of the nwa c. p. edited by w. e. burger dubois was held up and the males during may nineteen nineteen in august nineteen eighteen the editors of the messenger african trade union magazine of a phillip randolph would jail for three days and second class. Mailing privileges were denied. The magazine the is in general and the left in particular have falsely portrayed. The african people within the us empire is no independent revolutionary struggle at that time but only civil rights struggle falsely. They picked your african labor and african socialism as only existing as minority parts of the american labor and social democratic movements. While the history of african politics is far beyond the scope of this paper is necessary to briefly show why u. s. imperialism was threatened by african anti-colonialism in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. What is central. It's across the revolutionary nationalist culture of african political trends in nineteen twenty one the african blood brotherhood the ab the first modern african communist organization and the us empire was formed in new york city defining defining itself as a revolutionary secret order. The ab raised the goal of liberating and bringing socialism to the african nation. In the black belt south the brotherhood soon claimed two thousand five hundred members in fifty six posts throughout the empire. Most of these members were proletarians as most of the garvey movement activists minors in virginia road records in chicago gama workers in new york etc. These african communist focused heavily on education work and on immediate protection purposes organizing arm self units against the kkk revival. That was sweeping the empire. Soon the police spotlight the brotherhood supposed secret organizers of african bacteriology during the tulsa oklahoma riots. The birth of modern african communism within the us empire was most clear in irrefutable evidence that the african nation was starting to rise. It was significant that this new organization of african communist without hesitation proclaimed the goal of socialism through national relation and independence the existence of socialist minded vanguard naturally implied at the base of that peak. The massive africans will pushing upwards awakening politically creating new possibilities. Much of the present written accounts of african politics in this period centers around the events in the refugee communities of the north the quote unquote renaissance tenants organizations fighting fictions in the chicago ghetto african participation in union drives in cleveland in detroit and so on all these struggles and events were indeed important parts of the developing political awareness. But they're not the whole of what was happening. The intensity a full scope of the african struggle can only be accurately seen we also see the southern region of the us empire and particularly the national territory itself there under the terroristic of the settlers occupation. The african revolution started to develop despite the most bitterly difficult conditions. While you're american trade. Unionism has always tried to restrict african labor's political role. No propaganda continue basic fact that in the south african label was a primary factor in labor struggles. Notice that we say. African labor was the primary factor not minority partners not passive students awaiting at the lead of your american trade unions and certainly not just supporters of white trade unionism in the south. African label was a leading force for class struggle but that cost struggles po. The african the beret struggle starting in the early nineteen twenty s african labor in the south struck out in a remarkable series of all struggles. This was part of the same explosion of african consciousness. That also produced the garvey movement the great breakthroughs in african culture in african communist movement. These things were not completely separate but linked expressions of the same historic political upheaval of the whole oppressed nation when we think about the early organizing struggles of the united mine workers union in the southern appalachian coalfields. We lead to picture in our minds poor white hillbilly minors walking the picket lines with rifles enhance. This is just more settlers sick propaganda. The fact is that modern unionism in the southern appalachian coalfields came from a black thing. Man launched and led by african workers in the nineteen twenties political explosion in both initial nine thousand nine hundred eight strike and the great nineteen twenty two twenty one strikes in the alabama coalfields. The majority of strikers were african in fact in the main nineteen twenty two twenty one strikes fully seventy six percent of the striking miners were african. Those were african strikes much of the severe anti and violent repression of strikes in the nineteen twenties. South was linked by the perilous to the need to stop the rising of africans even outside of alabama the coal miners union often depended upon african struggle one african miner who worked in the minds of mercer county west virginia for forty three years recalls. The white man was scared to join the union. At first around here the black man took up the organizing jobs and set it up. We went into the bushes and met in secret. And we had all the key offices. If you're the white minds would slip around and come to meetings after. They found out that the company wasn't going to run them away while they began to pay more often and quite naturally when they became the majority the elected who they wanted for their presidents vice presidents and treasures. They left a few jobs. The secretaries for the negroes but at the beginning all the main offices in the locals were held by negroes. The offensive was not merely about job issues but there was a political outbreak spread among african workers in january general in nineteen nineteen thousands of african workers in the south from the national brotherhood workers. A common african workers union it among the dock. Shipyard railroad workers in norfolk and newport news virginia in one thousand nine hundred eighty three african postal workers in washington. Dc from their own union the national alliance of postal employees this offensive of african labor advanced throughout the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. In the minds in the birmingham. Steel mills on the ducks. The power in the south of african labor was being unchained so much information about the struggles so much of this historically has been obscured and put aside their all of african labor in shaking. The empire in those years was much larger than most believe. This is no accident for the main sources of us labor history. You have been the various works of the euro american left. These works all have. In common and press nation chauvinism in this regard such supposedly conflicting left writings as the cps as labor's untold story by boy in maria's the weather underground organizations prairie fire the syndicalist labor history books strike by jabe richer or the read papers of the revolutionary union. Now osce p. o. Commit the same distortions. The revisionist take part in. The miss history was one great tidal wave of anti colonial rising by oppressed africans. The pieces of history are then scattered so as to leave no visible sign of the giant stature of that african development some pieces of bleached stripped of their national character and annexed by the euro. America radicals as part of their own history. The history of african industrial workers in the north suffered this fate some pieces such as the militant sharecropper struggle and the leading role of african. Komen isn't the appalachian south have been buried. Matters is a ho- are distorted to shrink. The african story take one example. Destroy around the scots bro boys. The african teenagers frame for raping to set the girls always brought up while the widespread excitement and unique in the nineteen thirties. Over the defense cases of africans who for the seller oppressors is mentioned. This is just part of the general distortion of de emphasizing. The intense rising the african south itself and its nationalist character. Indeed many of the most widely used black studies ticks such as the bracy meyer and ruddick black nationalism in america or the huggins kilson and fox key issues in the afro american experience of assurance that by nineteen thirty africans in the us had lost interest in nationalism nationalism. They tell us was just a passing phase back then on the contrary we must underline the fact that the struggles of african labor were and are part of the political history of the entire african nation and can only be correctly understood in that context. Those african labor struggles far more important than we have been told in the major nineteen thirty six nineteen thirty seven. Us seamen's strike for example. African sale is played the decisive role in reaching victory. That was a strike that funny one. Union rights on all east coast shipping led by ferdinand smith the jamaican socialists who was vice president of the national maritime union and the twenty thousand african seaman. Who are the majority of the workers in the shipping industry of the southern and gulf coast ports shut down those ports completely until the employees gave in african label was gathering a mightly mighty force in the south on its own national territory. The colonial contradictions became most intensified when these people struggles caught fire in the cotton fields of the great oppressive african tenants and sharecroppers their the rois nerve of the euro american settlers occupation was touched since the struggle is fundamentally over the land. Revisionism has tried in. Its miss history to picture. These sharecropper struggles is mina conflicts in backwards sector of agriculture allegedly marginal to the main reno struggling auto steel and the rest of the northern heavy industry. The sharecropper tenant shrugs was central hal of because they involve the main learning force of the african nation. And because they will full over the land that's why these struggles were four out at gunpoint. The african sharecroppers and tenant farmers struggles did not and could not take the public mass dimensions of northern union organization. Smoldering under the heavy handed lynch rule of the settlers occupation the african plantation struggles with seventy break the surface in an intense conference shape confrontation while the issues will couch informs forms of pay rest hours tenant's rights etc. The underlying issue of contention was the perilous slavery of colonial oppression unlike the industrial struggles in the coal mines and steel mills. The african struggle on the land immediately and directly threatened the very fabric of your american society into south. For that reason they were met by strained. Setlow violence backed by the imperialist state in july nineteen thirty one. The empire was electrified by the news at a secret organization of african sharecroppers had been uncovered in camp hills alabama even worse from the settlers viewpoint was the fact that these sharecroppers had engaged in a shootout with the local sheriff and his plans to deputies at a time when an african south would take his life in his hands just in raising his voice to a local settler. This outbreak created settler panic throughout the colony. Especially when it became known that sharecropper said in african communist organizers the alabama sharecroppers union had begun secretly organizing intel pusa county in may of nineteen thirty one within a month. They had gathered over seven hundred members under set latino colonial rule. This effort was of course conspiratorial members when the only pleasure secrecy but swan wanted execute. Any african betrayed the struggle to the settlers. Nevertheless it was felt necessary to risk security security in order to rally sentiment behind the planned strike. Weekly mass meetings will begun. I secretly as possible at nights and local church. But these stirrings had alerted the police forces at the sharecroppers second mass meeting july fifteenth nineteen thirty one the gathering was discovered and attacked by arm settlers. There talladega county sheriff. Young and force of plants or deputies broke into the meeting right at the beginning beating cursing only the only only the gun drawn gun held by the chairman of the meeting. Allow people to escape the next night. After a feverish day of settler reinforcements sheriff and the large group of two hundred arm settlers went to prevent a planned african meeting and to assassinate the leaders the settlers first targeted ralph grey one of the most militant sharecropper than one of the main players. Gray who had been out on god. That night was shot. Down without paulie by the settlers. As soon as he was identified badly wounded he told his compatriots that he had emptied his shotgun at the enemy but had become too weak to reload and continue fighting. This atlema blessed satisfied. That gray had been finished off. I was later hearing that. The wounded sharecropper had been brought home by car still alive. The settlers regathered tech. This house. great was killed in his west head was fractured by beating. But a defense god of africans hidden nearby feel sniped at the invading settlers. Sheriff young was critically wounded and the deputy was also shot. This unexpected organized resistance by africans. Push the settlers into a frenzy of counter-insurgency taft homes. One of the arrested sharecropper said after his release they blew up the car gray with brought home in their arrested people wherever they found them at home in the store on the road anywhere all the white buses a sheriff that day and where they seen a colored man. They arrested him or beat him up. I was put in jail freddie evening. The boys who were putting friday morning was beat up and had to make them tell but none of them told even those mass arrests generalists heroism and killings failed to break the african struggle on the land. We can understand why we look at. Ralph grey himself. His role in the struggle grew out of his own oppression of his own rejection of the all embracing colonial occupation suffocating. Him greg called on his brothers and sisters to refuse to do plantation label for then prevailing wages until it pusa county fifty cents per day for african men forty cents per day for african women. He and his wife would work over the state line in georgia where plantation wages were slightly higher leaving the oldest son home to for their chickens and pigs in effect gray had started strike of african plantation labor urging everyone to withhold their labor until the settlers raise wages so sheriff young singled gray out. He told me that he and his family had to come out and chop cotton on the sheriff farm. Obviously of grace admitted then the attempted shrek would be undercut gray refused then gray had a fistfight with his landlord while the grease on their own check. They had to rent farmland from the local mail carrier. Mr langley incidentally this was very common. Not only the plant is in the middle classes. But even the working class settlers and the african colony where bosses over the african colonial subjects many many landless settlers themselves rented farmland from the banks and the plotters which they then had worked by. Sharecroppers day-laborers while african sharecroppers were enthusiasm eligible for new deal farm loans for seed and fertilizer. The common practice in the south was for the settlers landlords. To just take the money when ralph grace arrived his landlord who is also the postman hadn't signed it under the pretext that he delivered to the bank for gray. of course. the settlers kept the money himself. Great finally wait for langley at the mailbox and they got into a fistfight gray was among men because he was standing up. The colonial oppression was so suffocating that despite any dangerous the ralph graves of the african nation. We're moving towards revolution. That's why the embattled sharecroppers sickly wrote away to the communists and austere help africans were picking up the gun bash attila something about the political direction even defense trials of individual african sharecroppers who'd resorted to continue to draw attention throughout this period the old dell walla case in nineteen forty two created newspaper headlines demonstrations throughout the us empire. The richmond times dispatch said the most celebrated case in virginia criminal. Annals older wallace case is being watched with interest by groups of whites and negroes in every state of the union while the shot and killed his set landlord who has seized the well of families entire wheat crop for himself is interesting that the landlord oscar davis was not a land owner but a poor white who had african sharecroppers were part of his rented land for him in the walla case. The neo times. Editorially calls for communion his execution on technical grounds. The faith of the colored people in their country is deeply involved in what happened to although walla enemies would like to break down this faith. If governor dot in grants desired commutation he'll be helping his country's reputation all the dots gained and yellow skin. People wallow was quoted okay. I think that's a good place to take a break. That's the middle of section nine point two so yeah the execution of odell waller things a good place to stop it and as usual. Have no excuse for this. I should have it handy and ready by now. And fact i should just have it printed up but The usual questions hand these what they are. I'm dropping the ball today. Let's see Actually in the meantime we can just take general thoughts. Does anyone have anything they want. Wanna say in particular about what they read. While i pull up the questions okay. I found the guiding questions Thanks winfield which people slash groups that the chapter slash section feature. What were the goals. What tactics today us and how their actions fit into your historical trends. The group swear. I'm the native americans also introduce yourself. Oh winfield The groups were the us government. Native americans african american labor settlers in general. I think that's about it. Really and what. Tactics were their goals. And what tactics. Today us That's open to you or anyone else who wants to jump in. Don't want to be the one the answers. All the questions This funky of jump in a since the chapter started with native americans can start there. I think generally their goal was to keep their existing communities and land To what they had given but the tactic but the settler society the us their goal is to to integrate Them into us society in such a way that allowed the settlers to take control over their lands and also disarm them as a potential force against against them a and So they had like a sort of true to prong approach which was to try to buy off. Try to buy them off to buy some some of them off and get them to accept Terms that were favorable to us settlers In which they would basically except being part of the settler society obviously they wouldn't be equal members of society but they would sorta buy into the capitalist settler society's values and then the people who did did buy into those they will be used as a weapon to weaponize as a weapon against the remaining native americans who didn't want to sorry going and how did their accents fit into historical trends. I think one thing i would say is in general whether in america or other places when you oppress people totally and thoroughly it gives people nothing to lose and they kind of touch on here where they say that despite how aggressive in terrible depression was There are making steps toward progress. And i would say is not even in spite of but probably even because of that get gave people like ralph gray the wherewithal to stand up and getting a fistfight. Because there's pretty much no other option available available to you now so indisp- passage it says Gray was a marked man because he was standing up. The colonial oppression was so suffocating that despite any dangers the wrath grays of the african nation nation were moving towards revolution. So yeah people were desperate. Had nothing to lose. Which i think is kind of different than now. Because now we're giving the illusion of inclusion which i think saps a lot of are a lot of our Canary spirit not just for black people but in general but especially for black people now people just get so orgasmic over voting and i think back in the days even voting wasn't Enough seen as enough to undo everything that was going on as it is as it is now but we have a lot of mascots. A lot of Tokens a lot of these kind of superficial protections. That i think make people believe in the system in a way that it didn't before That's my answer for like how here historical trends. But i'm also open to other people's answers to that question. Would i also remember his They were saying that food production was controlled by the settlers and for anybody. That's posing a resistance to anything. The one of the most important things you want to have is your own enough food infrastructure. So that way you could hold sustained resistance but Even they said most of production of the indian nations is taken by settlers that means they controlled in terms of food production and the also implies that these people were here i had. They knew the land they they they would have employed possible other means to produce food more technologically. Modern efficient means even that you implies also been withheld and if you look at the situation today that seems to be the case you know that they're not using things that would help them even though it would violate any kind of traditional way of doing things like tractors and stuff like that so it seems like there's also like a war going on the settlers knew that conducting a war against these people are not only deny them. You know the essentials of life or have full control over by the also controlled the dissemination of any kind of technology to these people. Ca- stink about it if you're paying them even two or three percent they're gonna be able to afford those things so there's like There's like a outright campaign. A war being conducted. Even if it's cold against those people. And i think that's that's a tactic the us seizes lot. Today it was this data salita I also wanted to talk about Something that stuck out to me in the very first part of this book Where it says the us government enacted a genocidal campaign to a race indian culture including prison schools For indian children I've been reading a lot of books about the native american reformed schools and wanted of tactic. Set really makes me think of is the indoctrination of children and it makes me think about how how long how long of a play a lot of this stuff is. Is you know you have. The settlers were county countering. The native americans the indigenous peoples on point in time in what they've done is create a system in which they are pretty much americanizing. Dare the children of these indigenous people So that they're more easy to go ahead and simulate in essentially control. And i see a lot of that Just you know from a media sense to in our culture today i. It's not release forceful as anybody kicking down. Your door would like machine guns or anything like that but there is somewhat of an indoctrination in very subtle and refined indoctrination. In my opinion. I think that to some extent i mean even i think when i was you know reading a lot about what was happening to a lot of these children who are being kidnapped by is agents rate and separated from their parents that they were being sold at these adoption centers And that just. I mean that just seems to me exactly the same thing. That's like that was happening with these reform. Schools is that you're going to take these children and then you know kind of force them to them be little american kids in some weird evangelical household for forty thousand dollars a pop lake. It's it's thickening. That i mean that's still like i feel like it's still like a straight like record like thing today kicking endorse today to take people's children to then sell them either. I mean it's either. You know ice agents or succeed. Yes the i think. I think everything that Winfield adidas and and you have also is right on the money. I think just in terms of how it fits into historical trends. I would. I would say that you could. You could easily see these exact same things Being perpetuated in other parts of the world. Especially if you could africa The way that the car was broken up and divided and then after the full-on colonialism ended how the europeans still maintain A lot of control over the food production and also the not just the like mineral reserves but a lot of the food production and then The whole then missionaries as an spreading western religion as ways to sort of indoctrinate people. So i think. I think it's pretty interesting that the same strategies seem to be a used everywhere. Moving forward the questions issa kind leaving anything out if so what can you speculate. Why and no is appropriately. Finance to by people don't have to feel pressure just to say something to make an answer so totally valid answer. Oh i couldn't think of anything that his gov. I couldn't think of anything really that he left out. There was another thing that stuck out to me. I being a that kind of like chain when i first read this like kind of like change. The way i think about a lot of things Was this paragraph on page. One hundred it goes. I even most of the food production in india nations taken by settlers in nineteen sixty eight. The bureau of nina farris said that their reservations produced than one hundred seventy million annual annually in agriculture hunting. And fishing of the social the bi estimated that means only consume twenty million dollars worth while receiving another sixteen million dollars in rent. Seventy five percent of the total reservation. Food production was owned by settlers. Interesting there was like these. Are you know the unions are producing on the agriculture and fishing cetera. Would you think of is like in kind of like in like the whatever like vulgar marxists way of like you know. They're producing to sell right. But i think it's interesting that's a key highlights that they're not selling to indians right. They're selling to the settlers. And i think that that kind of like where the actual endpoint of production is is ending up. A is something. That's not highlighted on. I feel like by a lot of vulgar marxists. Who talk about you. Know production right and and i'm producing this thing and then it's kind of like stolen by my boss right but you two are kind of getting the products that are stolen from around the world right. That are being then at you. And i have. This kind of like is really a lot of the ways. I think about a lot of stuff that that quoted like it just shows how much how much wealth there is being stolen from them that they that could be used for their own for their own benefit and power. Okay so the we ask it out that we did does aci offer any solutions. It might be too early in the chapter to ask that since it's only the beginning. Part of the chapter in chapter goes on for a while but in case anyone does think in the short amount. You've read that there. A solution strong in feel free to share any that. You think you've learned spotted. Okay i'm going to take that as a no okay. How do we relate this history to the present. How do public schools deal with this history or exclude slash. Editorialize it for me. I've never seen this discussing any school. So it's totally excluded and in terms of how it shapes everyday life because nothing's because this entire process is right on stops you know it's unabated all this time at this point. The government seems confident. Enough even see some of the things happening in canada where they could just go and take what they want. you know. They had standing up just a few years ago and Yeah that's just another case case. This is another example of that right. You're i would drove into the not this alone but situations like this in different parts of the country had a lot to do. Probably with today's modern Wealth gap. I mean in addition the slavery. Of course all the things that happened since slavery where there are so many ways to take a black families wealth or swindle them out of their land or whatever. There was no recourse left for you to eventually leave. you know. it's definitely had a role in history in that way as well i would say any other answers before we move on and also That's the last of Pre written questions so if no one has anything to add in terms of that then we can just have an open floor where you just talk about any thoughts that this half of the chapter gave you. Hey what's up. This is data's again Yakult brought up something. That was really cool in the chat. That i noticed too are talking. The the left co-opt Tation of the black struggle. I think that we had a few Points in there about You know how. There was a lot of revisionism with regards to a lot of labor unions in even communists in socialist type of elements and so forth. I don't know what you wanted to expound on that a little more so it was a very good point has aku spoken yet. Maybe a noisy place. Yeah yeah owners phone. I'm sorry bro. Yeah because i noticed i noticed. He hasn't been speaking. So i assumed he must have been someplace on noisy man. My bad story look. Phoenix was up. Yakub's usually whenever our vocal contributor. So when he wasn't responding i figured he must be someplace noisy but He didn't make didn't make that point about about that. And i hope he gets a chance to share that later for sure. Think there is an interesting thing. Interesting point sokaiya makes about that when he brings up how. There's a lot written about like the harlem renaissance and a struggles and auto worker factories. And but not about struggles tenant farmer struggles and wage struggles. It was sharecroppers in that sort of thing and i found that interesting and really true Winfield was talking about earlier about how you never hear about a lot. This history and i think that's really true but also i have heard about like you know like auto struggles and stuff like that right but you never hear about like ten armor struggles in the south and mike arm struggles between like these really really petty landlords like these really poor guys who are like you know who are renting out something they're renting like and which is i think really interesting 'cause lake. There's all these stories about like kind of black white unity in auto worker struggles in the north right and this also place where like. I don't know it's just like i feel like it's a place where like white loves can be like. Well we like you know. Took part too but like an attendant farmer star was that you can't say that they like us any part at all except as exploiters okay Any other thoughts or the wanna get to the second half of today's readings. Allow you guys going once. I got a this is a rose is a quick comment. Slash like question I'm from canada. So i'm largely relating this to history down country to similar and around here. This chapter made me think of the history of the residential schools in canada which is a really really horrifying chapter of our history. And what. I'm wondering if I'm wondering if america's shares that same exact mechanism. Because i don't see that exact thing brought up yet may be Brings it up later. The residential schools are with urine natives. Right yeah yeah. You're are like complete like kidnapping native children bring into this boring school and just like abusing brainwashing them to be white like that was the whole goal and an obvious gonna say. I don't know the answer to that. But i have to guess that are coming up to actually ask about that because they run a podcast for natives in canada and one of the things that they were talking to me about is how different Native politics are in america and in canada. But what. I understand candid the the natives and if anyone listening knows more about this. Neither when i'm butchering anything. Please forgive me admit. I'm not well versed in this but What i understand there are a little bit more radical and stuff and the native politics in canada In many ways because of how much more horrible. A lot of the Things people remember our where in america. From what i understand even though it horrible to you're more likely to fine a lot of natives who still can't have buy in into american exceptionalism or able to muster up a former patriotism it was. It was very interesting. something. I want to actually laborat- with them. More when i have them on on their show and they touched on but it was something i wanted to have them on. Champion sharks to talk about but long story short from what i understand. This seems to be much more of an effort to keep a lot of the more. Heinous chapters of the government did tomatoes alive in canada than there seems to be in america. I i'd say that that's something that's been happening more recently. And yeah it is it is largely due to. I'm not sure what. The situation is in america at least in my area of canada. There is a. I'd say a pretty strong sense of of native politics especially centered around labor because i'm gonna fishing area and there's a lot of conflicts over fishing rights and a pricing that in the news a little bit But i'm not sure about the other areas of canada because I know that different tribes have kind of different Conflicts going on Yeah i know that. I don't know if it if the like what the differences are and the comparison between problems. But i know a residential schools was also pretty widespread in the us and for the basically the same function. I just don't know exactly like if it like what the differences are if times are different or anything but i do know that it's a it's a sort of a shared history to some degree achey. I've loved to learn more about it. But yeah and like. I said sure i butchered a lot of that so please don't write me but i mean well right me barack me in a spirit of of tolerance but yeah we're going to have those guests on and i'm going to take questions from people to ask them because this is something. I'm very curious about too but that was a general. It's just that i got that. One of the one of the podcast hosts told me that she came from america to Canada to join academia and she said that because she's kind she finds herself a little more radical that she felt more at home and Canadian native politics then in america where she was saying that They still have a lot of native vote. Tips in in D- american reservations. You'd be surprised. People are still kind of are very liberal democratic party and believe in american exceptionalism. It's it's interesting. I'd like to know more myself about why that difference arises any other thoughts on the chapter before we move forward just a little thing i do a. He does bring up really briefly a in part one of the reform schools Sprint are. it's like it's mentioned like thinking just one sentence a but it is. I think he he talks a lot about kind of like the kidnapping of children in previous chapters as well I don't think you. I don't think he really goes in depth into a into the boring schools reformed schools or whatever in this book at all. So i'm going to start the audio again to pick up where we left off and without further ado here we go. In these defense cases. The connection to the lodger anti-colonial issues is readily apparent. And the t davis defense case. It edmonton arkansas. Read across the river from memphis tennessee and nineteen forty three. The african tenant farmer was sentenced to ten years in prison for defendant. His family's house against settlers breaking in alleged searching for stolen goods freshly deputize settlers harassing african families when davis refused to open his door to an i and identified white men a settler. Dippy started breaking it down when the deputy kicked in the bottom of the door he david started shooting through the door to scare them off. That restaurant was not just continuous racism but a campaign to dry to drive africans. They're off the land that area in crittenden county had been african stronghold off to the civil war. Crittenden was loss county in arkansas. The nineteenth century to have african sheriffs and county officials. Edmonson self was establishes an all african town in that period the entire population stores real estate and for men being african. Finally the plants is managed to organize a major on the attack on the town. Many of its people were driven out and the african leaders would deport from the state. Most of the african landon homes was still in by the pontus. Desiring only a limited number of africans to work Occupy land labor is the local capitalists used tear. It's keep the population down and stop any africans who tried to own land. It should be evident that behind. These african sharecropper intendant struggles loomed large issue of the and the lodger rising despite the savage counterattacks by the settlers garrison. The africa's struggle refused to quiet down in alabama. The thirty one mass arrests terror and assassinations fail to exterminate the sharecroppers union the next year another shootout took place in talladega county on december nineteenth nineteen thirty two. The plenty deputies kill for africa's attack on the organization. The brief battle was so intense that the settlers attackers were forced to withdraw after they ran. Low on ammunition for deputies were slightly wounded by african return fire. Five africans was sentenced to twelve to fifteen years in the state penitentiary for the shootout as late as nineteen thirty five. The african sharecroppers union was leading almost three thousand cotton sharecroppers a strike that had begun in bloody lowndes county on august nineteenth. Nineteen thirty five. I'm confrontations a small-scale was taking place throughout the south there were of course many euro sharecroppers and tenants as well in the south most of them were extremely poor a poverty whose roots lay in the original defeat of the abortive confederate nation for them. The possible path of class conscious struggle was visible unique. Union the southern tenant farmers union was formed entire renzo saw in one thousand nine hundred thirty four to follow this path. The stf you started by two southern euro american social democrats h l mitchell who owned the dry cleaners and henry east again station. Operator they union involve many thousands of sharecroppers tried tried several major strikes and was notable in the rural south of that time for being heavily integrated briefly. The stf you was even part of the national cio before splits between settlers radicals led to its stor and had the same prominent role in official nineteen thirties. Us unionism that the farmworkers you have w dozen today's afl cio the stf. You feel politically. Because it could not resolve the relationship between oppressor and oppressed nations could find no other basis for workers union the other than reformism under oppression nation domination how wide the go freely was on. The land can be seen from an incident in oklahoma. Sef you leader. H l mitchell had gone to durant oklahoma on an organizing drive addressing a group of choctaw indian farmworkers mitchell called on them to get organized by joining the stf. The choctaw leader simply ended discussion by saying indian or organized when white men and black man get ready to take back the land. We joined them. The stf us integrationism was just an effort to arnesen. Use militancy of the african masses to fight battles. The poor whites could not sustain themselves african tenants and sharecroppers with a hardcore strength of the sef few the steadfastness alone permitting enough organizations to hold together so that the poor whites has something to cling to h l mitchell who always insisted on set. The control of the union himself had to admit that intimidation moves with generally more successful against the whites than the negroes. The latter have more sense of organization and the value of organization a greater sense of solidarity. Even this social democratic union could not successfully abso- and tamed the nationals energy of its african members. The primary organizers for the s. T. a few in its formative. Years was african vice president. Reverend e b mckinney mckanie related to the. Stf you end. it's radically your americans. Only to the degree that he felt africans thereby gained and self organization and political strength. This row preacher turned out to be both much better educated than most of the settlers union activists and african nationalist. One historian remarks though to work with whites. He was race conscious. Having been influenced by marcus. Garvey negro nationalism and his people remained primarily the negro union members. Badly wounded by us. Imperialism's terroristic kind of blows. The african share cropper struggle in the late nineteen thirties. Continue to search for new directions as late. As nineteen thirty nine there was considerable agitation. That year reverend mckinney. Quit the stf you in protest saying that the negro is the goat of the stf. You off thirteen. African tenant from union locals in arkansas. Quit the stf you and joined the rival cio union group these african sharecroppers. We're trying to take advantage of euro american labor. Fractional infighting plan those factions off against each other attempting to find the situation with the most resources and leverage for themselves in january nineteen thirty nine thousands of dispossess landless sharecroppers in south eastern missouri took the highways in a major demonstration to dramatize dead demand for bread and land. The share cropper setup a tent city lining the roadsides of a national highway this protest which lasted for ten months quote empire wide attention and it was an early forerunner to the one thousand nine hundred sixties freedom watches and other sites such actions. It was a very visible sign of the struggle of africans to resist leave in their lands to resist imperialist dispossession practice showed that african sharecropper and ten at labor struggles only had a close character but were part of a larger national struggle. There were anti colonial struggles. Having the goal of removing the boot hill of set lucky patient off of african life and land in disturbing the african masses rural as well as urban sharecroppers well steelworkers were creating new forms of organization trend mass struggles of very kinds and taking steps towards revolution. Again it is important to recognize the meaning of the reality that africans were picking up the gun and raising the need for socialist liberation. This gradually developing struggle was against us imperialism and had a revolutionary direction in the thirties comey's and grew taken root not only in the refugee ghettos of the north but in the south as well primarily this political activity took form within the communist party usa which the ap joint while we can recognize a cpa usa as a finely as a settler ristic. Potty of revisionism is important to see that in the deep south at that time the ep usa was predominantly an underground organization of african revolutionaries. The cpa usa was accepted. Not only because of its labor and legal defense activities but because in that period the see psa was opening espousing independence for that press. African nation hosea hudson and african steelworker. Who played a major role in the cpa usa in alabama in the nineteen thirties. Points out that the party of his personal experience was in reality and african organization up in the top years and thirty three thirty four thirty five. The party in birmingham alabama was dominated by negroes at one time. We had estimated around birmingham about six or seven hundred members and host of alabama. It was considered about one thousand members. We had only a few whites. And i mean a few whites so that in the african nation not just a small intellectual vanguard god not just a handful but a significant number of africans were illegally organizing for socialist revolution and national liberation. Hudson makes it plain that african communist then had a very explicit ideas about the eventually leading freed and sovereign african nation into south. Our struggle was around many outstanding issues in our party program in the whole south one full economic political and social equality to the negro people and the right of self-determination of the negro people in the black belt when we got together we discussed. And we read the liberator the party put out this newspaper the liberator it was always carrying something about the liberation of black people. Something about africa something about the south scarborough etcetera etcetera. We'd compare we talk about the right of self-determination we discussed the whole question of if we establish the government what role we comrades would play about the relationship of the white of the poor white farmers et cetera in this area. If you had a government in the south they give you the self-determination the black belt you got whites there. Would you do with the whites. We say the whites would be recognized on the basis of their percentage represented on all buddies committees. But the negroes at all times would be in the majority. It's revealing that at that time. When african communism had easily as much strength in numbers in the south as it did in the nineteen seventies had a nationalist program the goal of national independence very clearly made sense to the grassroots. And at that time and early nineteen thirties. Overwhelming majority of african communist south were proletarians as. We put back together some of the pieces of the new african story. We see even incomplete incomplete line. That struggle had indeed renewed itself in it entered the modern period. The african pro terry had stood up particularly in the south and has beheaded new industrial union unionism campaigns with without the alliances with white workers on the plantations. The masses were starting to organize spontaneous resistance to the settlers. colonial occupation. Was breaking out the most politically conscious of these becoming communist with african communism rapidly growing and taken on its vanguard role. Thousands of africans stepped forward in those years to commit themselves on revolution self-government through independence for the african nation and socialism. This was a program that had one respect amongst african people particularly in the south. The political horizons for africans open wide. In those years. It is especially important to understand that. Massive africans viewed themselves as part of a world struggle that their aims and concerns encompassed but went far beyond the immediate economic issues. Nothing proved this more. Clearly than the spontaneous mass movement support ethiopia in its war against italian imperialism in october. Nineteen thirty five. The italian empire invaded in the draft to expand its north african colonies which at that time included somali eritrea and libya italian imperialists especially glad at that new invasion since it gives them a chance to avenge the humiliating defeat at ottawa. In eighteen ninety six ignacio paige was then however feudalistic society the only actually independent nation lifting et remained independent for the only possible reason because it had repeatedly maintained its national integrity had militarily repulse european intrusions. The early portuguese slavers had been driven off. Even when the italian forty thousand soldiers armed with rifle and artillery invaded ethiopia in eighteen ninety six the ethiopian nation defeated them. These italian divisions was surrounded and wiped out adwa emperor menelik two hundred fifty thousand ethiopian soldiers. The humble italian empire was forced off the adults publicly. Recognize the theo and borders and even to pay the ethiopian government. Heavy cash reparations so in one thousand nine thirty five after some years of proprietary border incidents the mussalini regime eagerly san is tank divisions and airplane squadrons slicing into ethiopia africans within the. Us empire reacted instantly in a great uproar of anger and solidarity journalists. Otley pointed out that there had been no event in recent times that stirred the rank and file of negroes more than the italo endorphin war. It is important to graphs the full and exact significance of this political upheaval. All over the african continent and in the new world africans were being oppressed by the european colonial powers. Why vended this one. Case co for such special attention from africans in the us empire because it involved the principal of net national rights for africans. The defense of african nationhood even the even. The moderate political foresees rallied around this most basic issue to the nationally oppressed. Even someone such as well to white. The executive secretary of the nwa c. p. could angrily right edney brazenly has set fire under the paddock of why are against ingred which seems destined to become active suicide for the so-called white world at its nineteen thirty five national convention. The end of acp assailed the imperialistic selfishness of all nations in this shameless aggression upon the sovereignty of other nations. The defensive african nationhood was primary. Premarin everyone's mind duck elk williams president of the national baptist convention told a mass rally. We do not want to see the last black empire. In africa lose its independence and culture the fraternal council of churches representing the major african denominations issued an official resolution saying americans of african descent. A deeply stirred in their attitudes sympathies for ethiopia. A negro people who represent almost the only remaining manning example of independent government by the black race on the continent of africa. So the concern is broadly shared by the african nation. As a whole not just by some strada oh by some political sectors. The support movement took many forms. Clearly the leading group in the mass mobilization was the gaza movements united negro improvement association. Un this was. We should recall the same nationalist organization that prominent historians now assurance was abandoned. An end unimportant at that time. Captain ale king head of the u. n. i n. New york was the chairman of the united african support committee. J. raja's deleting intellectual of the garvey movement in the us was the main propaganda educator for the support movement the african united committee involved the only the a and other nationals but the cps say church nita's african cars groupings and salon within several months after the invasion of the friends of ethiopia had one hundred six local branches both north and south through a mask church meetings rallies marches of thousands and picket lines. Outside italian government offices. The national character. The movement was underlined by the fact that virtually to the last person africa's boycotted the well funded and your american-run international relief efforts. The american red cross admitted the africans refused to join his ethiopian. A campaign africans insisted on their own all african campaign that was highly political. The political counter attacked by. Us imperialism struck at this point somehow room. I kept spreading the seo paeans thought of themselves as caucasian and that they allegedly viewed africans most especially in the us empire with contempt there is a demoralizing confusion from this rumor to expose this lie. Representatives of ethiopia came to the us at a packed hall. Meeting of three thousand. At reverend reverend. Adam clayton powell genius baptist. Church ethiopian envoy tesfaye invoked the solidarity of oppressed african peoples. It said that we despised negroes in the first place. You're not negroes. Who told you that you were negroes. You are the sons and daughters of africa you motherland which calls you now to aid her law surviving free black people. The varta movement arose spontaneously throughout the nation thousands upon thousands of africans volunteer to go find ethiopia. The black legion established a military training camp enrolling new york and is leaders urged africans to prepare to renounce us citizenship while the volunteer movement was blocked by us. Imperialism is popular nature shows. How powerful where the potential forces being expressed through the ethiopian support. Issue the two africans from the us empire who did find both fighter pilots were heroes beckham whose adventures widely followed by the african press. The conflict was for out in metre on the streets of jersey city brooklyn and harlem between and pro fascist talion immigrants the night of august eleventh nineteen thirty five over thousand africans in italians foot with baseball bats and rocks on the streets of jersey city on october fourth. Nineteen thirty five the day after the main invasion began thousands of africans attacked italian shots in harlem and brooklyn on the streets masses of ordinary africans viewed. This fight and the fight in ethiopia is very close. it's indicative that in nineteen thirty six late night street. Quinta rally of the african patriotic league called to protest italian mass executions of ethiopian patriots. Rapidly turned into an attack on the police smashing italian. Still windows the crowd of four hundred africans marched down lenox avenue in harlem looking for a particular policeman who made a point of arresting nationalist in the mass fighting with police that followed the nail. Police started shooting after the determined crowd charged them successfully free. One of their number who had been arrested ethiopia was close to home. The great pouring of nationally sentiment that accompanied the ethiopian war was we must emphasize widespread throughout the us empire. One new orleans resident remote to the currier that ethiopian crisis proved that the time is here for the negro begin looking for the highest things in life a flag of its own a government of his own complete liberty. This was developing consciousness that so threatened. Us imperialism section three to disrupt the nation population recruitment. It was only against the rise of the african nation that we could see in brilliant detail. How the us empire wolf together the net of counter-insurgency. We know that a period that began to run world war one which continued through the nineteen thirties period in which african nationalism militantly took hold of the masses ended in the nineteen forties with the triumph of pro imperial integrationism as dominant political philosophy in the african communities. Us kind surgency was a hidden factor in this paradoxical outcome in the in the philippine war of eighteen ninety eight to nineteen. Oh one the. Us empire openly spoke of its counterinsurgency strategy. The same was true. In vietnam in the nineteen sixties but in the african colony of the nineteen thirties. Us counterinsurgency was concealed. It was nonetheless real nonetheless genocidal for having been done without public announcements it is when we view what happened in this light as components of a strategy of counterinsurgency that the political events suddenly come into full focus usually counterinsurgency involves three principle components number one violent suppression of information of the revolutionary qadri and organization's number-two paralyzing. The mass struggle itself through genocidal population. Recruitment number three substituting pro imperialist bourgeois leadership and institutions for patriotic leadership and institutions within the colonial society the terroristic suppression of african militants in the south has been discussed and in any case should be well understood. What is bent been less discussed are the other two parts population. Recruitment in mousa- dungs famous analogy the is in the people's war our fish while the masses are the see that both sustains and conceals them population recruitment in the as terminology strategy seeks to dry up that see by literally up reading the masses in disrupting the whole social fabric of the oppressed nation in vietnam. The strategy resulted in the widespread chemical poisoning of crops and forest land the population of key areas and the involuntary movement of one third of the total south vietnamese population off their lands to protected hamlets in refugee centres. I the reservations for vietnamese. These blows only show. How great nefer. What magnitude of resources is expanded on imperialist counterinsurgency in response to growing political unrest. The us empire moved inexorably to drive africans off the land out of industry and forced them into exile. The new deal of president franklin roosevelt the major banks and corporations and the main your american political and social organizations which are unions political parties et cetera. Or to get it to destroy the economic base of the african nation to separate africans from their lands and to this stabilize and gradually depopulate the african communities in an adjacent to the national territory. One history of us welfare programs notes. Many new deal programs running roughshod over the most destitute. Federal agricultural policy for example was designed to raise farm prices by taking land out of cultivation and action that also took many tenant farmers and sharecroppers out of the economy the national recovery administration seeking to placate organized employers and labor community ratio differential in wages to be maintained the tennessee valley authority deferred to local prejudice by not hiring blacks. All this was done not only but rather out of concern for building a broad base for the new programs. It was left to fear the federal emergency. Relief act sequoia. The casualties of the new deals pragmatic policies since black scott little from or actually harmed by most programs. Thirty percent of the black population ended up on the directly falls by january nineteen thirty five just as the thirty percent of the south vietnamese. People were forcibly made dependent upon direct. Us handouts in the nineteen sixties. In order jesse eat so thirty percent of the african people in the us were similarly reduced by nineteen thirty five but not for long. That was the first stage in the second. Relief was turned over to the local governments who proceeded to force africans off thoroughly for also drive them out of the region that history of us welfare continues under pressure from southern congressmen. Any wording that might have been interpreted as constraining. The states from racial discrimination and welfare was deleted from the social security act of nineteen thirty five. The southern states then proceeded to use the free hand that they'd been given to keep blacks off the rolls. It is important to see that africans were not just victims of discrimination and blend economic circumstances. Las hired i fired etcetera. Africans were the targets of imperialist new deal policy. We must remember that the arcade parasitic american. Planta capitalists were on the verge of final bankruptcy and literal disillusion in the early years of the depression. Further despite the nineteen twenty nine depression. There wasn't relatively little agricultural imply unemployment among africans in the rich mississippi river cotton land of the delta the kush until the winter of nineteen thirty three thousand nine hundred thirty four then. These two facts were suddenly reversed. The new deals nineteen thirty. Four agricultural adjustment act rescued their room. Plant to capitalist giving them cash subsidies so that they could hold onto the land and continue serving as imperialism's overseers african south but those us imperialist subsidies literally gave the planters cash for each share cropper and ten inform the force of the plantation. The primary effect then was to forcibly stabilized and eventually depopulate the real african communities one nineteen thirty five evaluation of the aaa program by the lawyer for the southern tenant. Farmers union pointed out before its passage. Most of the plantations of south were heavily mortgaged. It was freely prophesied that the plantation system was breaking down under its own weight and that the great plantations would soon be broken up into small farms owned by the people who cultivate them but by federal aid the plantation system of the south is more strongly entrenched than it had been for years however this is not the most significant effect of the federal aid. Bite conagra acreage is reduced from about forty percent. Something like forty percent of the tenants were displaced. This is plainly. This placement was also taking place in the factories. And even the coalfield where we noted in the previous section african workers had played a leading role in militant unionization as the coal mines of the south. Gradually became unionized. Nineteen thirties african miners. And their families were driven out by the tens of thousands the lodge co companies and the united mine workers union umw cio while they had class differences had oppressed nation unity. The imperialist had decided to drive rebellious african labor out of the southern coalfields and the pro imperialist unions eagerly cooperated between one thousand nine hundred forty and nineteen forty. The percentage of african miners in the five seven appalachian states alabama virginia tennessee west. Virginia and kentucky was liberty deliberately cut from twenty three percent to sixteen percent and keep being keep on being cut year after year regardless of economic boom or bust the drive-by capital two straight down african labor to force the colonial messes out of the main economy intensified throughout the nineteen thirties between nineteen thirty to nineteen thirty six. Some fifty percent of all african skill workers will pushed out of their jobs. Careful observers at that time made the point that this was not caused by the depression alone but clearly reflected a strategy used by imperialism against the african nation as a whole w e b boyce said in the main address of the one thousand nine hundred eighty three fisk university commencement ceremony we do not know that american negroes will survive there as soon as the signs about us antecedent to an unconnected with the great depression. The organized might industry. North and south is relegating negro to the edge of survival and using him as a liberal reservoir on starvation wage in the fields tens of thousands of african farm families during the nineteen thirties were driven. Not only off the land but out of the south altogether as we have seen. This was clearly not the result of blind economic circumstances. But was the genocidal result of imperialist policy as enacted by the most liberal settling administration and us history the social disruption and depopulation renault no significant for africans then for dispersed colonial peoples such as the palestinians the militant shuttle the land and the turn of african workers towards revolution was not only blunted by repression increasingly. The african masses were involuntary dispersed scattered into the refugee camps of the northern ghettos removed from established positions in industries and trades. That were an irreplaceable of the modern nation. It was not just a matter of dollars important as income to the oppressed. What was happening ravaged national culture. The sea of african society was stricken. It is material base interesting enough. The nineteen thirty four triple a. And the entire program was administered by fdr secretary of agriculture henry wallis. This man was latest. Become the darling of the cpa usa and nineteen forty eight presidential candidate of the p. Usa led progressive party section four neo-colonialism yeah desi end of section three and the end of what were reading for today so Yeah general thoughts okay. So in that case or you're good the problem the problem yeah really why the end of section two or introduce yourself. Hi camario the end of section to mike ally. I thought it was amazing to see how organized like Aware at the time and like the international solidarity thought was amazing to the point relate. African people are fighting italians in the streets in new york about that was really amazing to see like and they were and i liked the way that they were kind of laying the white people within the different organizations and my strategizing for whatever it was best for them for black people and not just trying to be conciliatory or bill like coalition. It was more about. Who can we like find union with now. But we don't have to stay with us. So i just really liked seeing how organized they were in high school. What you described makes me think of those shirts that i hate like we are not our ancestors and stuff and it reminded me of how wrong those those shirts are like. I really hate those shirts but this was a good reminder of how dangerous to get your history of black people on ancestors from from white people because they will not tell you stuff like this and back to the general questions if no one has anything to add to a kamari said i'll say Which people groups did the chapter slash section feature. What were the goals and what tactics that they use. It's very much an extension of the first reading. So i'm sure it's not going to be that much different than the first answers but i'll ask it anyway. it's safe to say it's pretty much the same the same group of people the africans in the sharecroppers From the first action right How did her actions fit into historical trends. Yeah oh i was gonna say would the seo few microscopic us talking but it's all your yeah It you saw the quotation of the black people. Just a the using the numbers help feed was ultimately. The settlers ambitions Even though they tried to push back against that You could tell that their presence was kind of like this book by it. In the first half of the chapter they started up a union then usually by the time it was over. The settlers came in putting people this if you they took a lot of the africans use them for you know political capital. And then you know just try to walk away from it. All your heart's fair. i think. Also what you just described ties into the next question about how. The actions fit into historical trends. Because i feel like that's a so. Keep seeing to this day of White groups using back black bodies to swell the ranks but tonight actually meet the needs of the black people that also leads me to us that. Ask a question that always us myself. Why do we still get involved in. Why don't we just have our own thing. Like you know what i would say. I would say you kind of have to do both. But i feel like we get involved with others to the exclusion of forming our own groups. Like i think in theory could work if we organiz amongst ourselves and then from that strong collective base on the goshi with other groups. But we don't really do that. We i mean like you saw. It would. Democrats in joe biden. What was happening with anyone who dared to tell people to focus on the back agenda furs. Then focus on party politics or if you're a democrat or republican or socialists. Or whatever and you know most people. Their primary loyalty was to their Ally group than to the idea of black sovereignty. So that's the problem. I think it's not that It's it's bad to work with others for that. We sacrifice ourselves almost to the altar of other other people's politics and go ahead. You go see something camera. I was gonna say like. I agree with that. But i was. I thought i was wondering maybe. It's just like a tactic of survival. In that group that jugs black people than there really doesn't have to be like then they can just all be exterminated in some way shape or form and i may be like black people think they can hide under white works in that like they may not basis type of repression. I think there's some truth to that. I i also think in. I'm open to push back on this. I also think that we kind of internalize the idea of our own lack of worth. Because i feel like even if it's a compensation of just among black people without any white people around we still can't get that pushback of you know like for example when the when Those queens were cocktails women on fox soul. we're talking with ice cube and all they did was responding with Immigrants or other groups problems where he was trying to talk about black americans and in that space. They weren't really to me speaking to white audience but they still kept kinda defaulting to. It's our job to mule for everyone and if we do it then they'll appreciate us back and we'll be appreciated like it was very foreign to them even the idea of Doing black forest politics. So i'm i agree with what you're saying i'm not seeing. What you're seeing is is wrong. I think you're absolutely right that it's a protection mechanism but i do think to a degree. We've actually internalized that if is just about us. It's not that important you know but if it's about everybody then that makes it was worth as i think that that that that that floor in their thinking it's kind of talking about in the the other day when they were talking about. Why do i have so much confidence in while in in people kind of thing and i think those kinds of people they were put their and for those reasons because they think that way and truthfully when it comes to working together for the benefit of everybody i'm all for it. You know what i will never want to do is sacrifice my own interests. I did not play the game. And you do that and you do it without me. You know and. I think that people historically the reason why they didn't walk away from you know. Walk away with because these people owned all the capitol. They provide all the job in a way. There's a gun to you whether you realize it or not that you have to engage but how much you engage in that point you have to make that fascinating deal is a choice and the minute that you know. These people read into this question of you know over. Halfway up the hill over at the top of the hill. Now we gotta make some concessions. You know i'd be like make the concession. But i'm up paying for it because i paid for my price was just working with you. 'cause that was against my probably interests so i'm giving up any of the gains people. Don't have enough spying to really Do that felt fifty to do so. And i think that does come from psychological lack of self worth because if they had that then they would fight for at least a little something you know but just rolled over like that. I feel like this is a plague. Parbat sleeve mindset. That hasn't been shed. Yeah that's really all that. Say about that kind of making like making progress through capitulation and stuff in winfield was talking about really made me think how the the conversations that people were having prior to the election With boo okay. Well you know we know that there but the main response you broke up for a second. I'm was for everyone. Just oh sorry about that. can you hear me. i can you young now. Yes so like one thing that that we kind of saw like a you know prior to the election was the whole idea of I in this is just a generalization but when ever somebody brought up redressing issue that impacted black people in the country. There was always well. We need to put that to the side because we need to save the country. I you know Something else that. I noticed that when in line with that is it was what you said. We have to put that aside. I to save the country i or it would start getting traction. I earning the election cycle. There was a moment when reparations was being discussed really heavily and when that happened it started getting taking pretty seriously when they had the meet the hearing on the senate floor to address it and as it started being seriously entertained there are a lot of think pieces We have to do gay reparations. Oh we have to do which was a real thing piece off forgot where was There was the native american Reparations have to be done Latino american reparations has to be done they those are think pieces in the course of a month and my problem with. They had a problem with these things. People thought i was being anti latino or anti gay or anti this but well i was trying to say is. It's not that you guys want to fight for this stuff. But why do you keep staying quiet until it looks like black. People are making some headway in suddenly. Just wanna busting your own claims when you had plenty of time to Ninety have plenty of time to bring the stuff up to if it was really a pressing concern but a lot of y'all were the same ones who were bad mouthing. The black reparations claim win the debates came about and suddenly As a starting to get taken seriously Basically i feel those are the two things either way because there's more important things that affect everyone now or year we can talk about it now but Also let's Package and all these other grievances so that you know the end of it the hierarchy is still is going to be maintained because yeah and i think that's the problem because if you look at the injustices that's been done just against this. You know anywhere between ten to fourteen percent of their population for all this length of time. The unjust this is the route injustice. If this really gotten rid of the culture would be ref- reformed in such a great level that those other issues would probably go away too because the way they're carrying on isn't the way it was historically in the culture. I know of that. You know my descendants came from so it's just the it doesn't really make sense to say. Let me let me just put this massive enjoy ongoing injustice in atrocity probably the biggest one in human history aside sicker these little side issues and nibble around the edges. And i think the only reason why these people do that the ones that do do it is because of the compensate in they could farewell in this system and they really don't need the benefits of that because they second-class class citizenship is somewhat ameliorated by the gifts that they get you know the weather people talk about stuff like biscuits and all that so. I feel like the people that are represented in the struggle. The wrong people you know and the ones that have voiced the ones who are the wrong people to have voice. Because they're not they're invested in things where they are so they can afford to you know. See no change at all. You know so. I think the reason why they selected is if you look at the people that they choose the always these broken people is something wrong with them and if you don't see it up front is something back. They have over because had they been strong. You know people focused you know represented is of the group they would not make those kind of compromises and they wouldn't put those kind of things on the back burner so it's like almost everybody you see that has some sort of you know is is a damage product off. I don't understand why people get behind. It think that this sick thing about it is it's like it's always watered down and sort of sold out in under the guise of being fair. It's not fair if you don't include everybody i'm one recent example Corey bush. i was layton her from what i've seen so far and i'm not going to write her off yet. I'm still trying to take her in. I'm trying not to buy into anybody totally upfront. Because let's nothing but disappointment so far. So i was trying to be cautiously optimistic but She recently had a four or tweet. You know saying that you know. The green new deal is Racial justice problem got my nerves. Not because like even if she just put it like hey The green new deal is something black. People should care about because they face a lot of environmental racism. Like that would have been fine or you know. She says everyone should care about the green new deal because it Affects everyone men. Women black white native asian. You know that wouldn't bother me. But when she specifically put it that way that it's a racial justice problem never really got him. Because i felt like they don't do that they wouldn't say like This is most pressing feminist issue Like i'm sure you know. This is the Gay rights issue of our time. I feel like you wouldn't really see a woman. A white feminists say that you know or a gay activist save at so it was kind of annoying to me that we as black people have this Reflex to take on these causes as racial causes and say hey that whatever amount of goodwill. We are allowed to use to advocate for our group. We're going to spend that Political social capital with the Lift all boats policy that like that was Kind of annoying the chance to use that phrasing. I had no problem with her fighting for thing. But i just always hate how we volunteer to use our whatever chips we have to spend in political capital. Our first priorities Something like that. And the other thing. I noticed about the chapters reading the section about illegal into ethiopia and how much that meant to the black american people back then even though they were still at that point generations removed from africa And i i mean you say this one thing when we first got here. I think off the day after week one. Everybody could agree that they probably all wants to go back. You know but You know that said the people that were here one hundred years ago when they heard about the loss sovereign nation being attacked. That meant something to them. You know but it seems like these days is really different. You see these people that are like really focused on things that reparations or you know cones identified more with america when countries founded. They went people were things and it just seems like they somewhere along the plus hundred years. I don't know what it is. But some kind of aspect of their identities been been like either crushed or or really really downplayed that they really focused more on the heaven and identity hair than their global identity. The system that they're in is a global system. It seems like you're throwing away a lot of cash from table to just think about you know issues hair and not seeing how the global effects are of these kind of western european empire is so yeah. I just can't rock with it. I think it's good of your hero. distinct So i think in order to attain any kind of You know like good grades in school or you know to excel cut cut. Oh i can still hear him personally this anyone else. You cut for anyone else chick. One i can. Yes i can hear you find your. But but i can hear you very clearly. Yeah yeah you're a little bit low. But i can hear you about i disabled. Thanks we hold on. I think for some reason. Winfield can't hear you so he ends up talking over you But we can all the rest when you're not able to hear for some reason. I'm not getting audio from anybody right for you right now or you ain't getting it from me that's weird. Oh so winfield's wanna getting it from me. Well i'll tell you what I mean okay. He he left and came back with c- He wrote you could start talking again. See that okay. Resell vowed to wait a second. I know what it is ignored. It is yeah. He was away a few days ago remember. We had to mute him. Oh my bet. Yeah that's right okay. Other say on yet. I just wanna say like in order to to get anywhere. I think politically or just. Get any kind of respect. You have to kind of at some level. An internal internalize the bob wa blacks and bottom. Why it's on top. And i think you know I don't know about getting beaten down. I think a lot of us are just brainwashed that way. And we can't envision a world where we aren't on the bottom so that you know and when you paper or you you try to you know push back against that get characterized you know as you know as extremist or. You know pie in the sky and we see that in media one one film that comes to mind. I don't know why but It was chemists film With when the Something about amyot. i don't know what was like. This blessing character was gay or something. I remember seeing that in. Just like kind of clowning on there. That idea and i think you know has just been this propaganda to to Keep us with that mentality. A quick thing to say but the reparations. I wasn't sure what you meant. Winfield you were saying reparations. a Sign of being Broken or over identified with america. Just wants to be point is yet they. Everybody knows a debt to be paid but outside here other people that do it too but they don't really place is much of a focus on it is more about you know getting around it another way you know and no one. I just feel like it's a everybody that gets it. Historically has a serious serious serious enough power base even in the european example just read about they will some tail and then they got it. You know you can't put the cart before the horse. I said that was before. I say it again. I think the focus should be on more of a real strong ethnic or national african identity and leveraging that to create the power necessary to make those kind of demands. But i just feel like the people on in a position to to to ask for it now yet it keeps coming up and it just becomes and when you do something like that the only use for it when it's going to be seriously entertained is to have it become a political football or distraction to keep you away from focusing on your material issues that would still be bringing you on the road to getting it. You know so. I just feel like the games. Just being against probably co-opted so that's why it's being played around and when you look at the decrease in wealth numbers and the crushing like i said the crushing or the identity it just feels like whereas one hundred years ago relatively speaking people would just coming out of you know they're the worst situations reconstruction to you know one war Probably to that point second one starting their mindset was still had more of a a united feeling about it. They felt for their people overseas. They felt something for the law. Stand of the You know sovereign nation abroad where the descendants came from. But these days you know what was happening in our lifetime. You know what these people. Dan congo rwanda and up in one thing. They're probably happens is based on. How a lot of Eighty was talk and rightly or wrongly. I think the perception is that it hasn't been reciprocated. Like i think a lot of them feel like it's been a disproportionate amount of Black american people really buying into pan-africanism and his global unity whereas the rest of the bre thinks themselves as say jamaican first or nigerian. I or whatever. I and a global african Second so that's the response that i get told from a lot of People who rock radio west is that they feel that they have to be able to self define in have Their their own identity worked out before they go to the table. back to the table of pan-africanism because They go to according to them and their history with the idea of. Hey we buy into the pan african thing. We're african before were american. But everyone else is their own ethnicity before their Pan african the other thing that Some of them have told me. Is that every pan-africanism on the continent day claim is dead that everyone who was for it and with it has been eliminated by America would this lumumba or allow the other people they've been replaced by american friendly puppets so and again. I'm not saying this is true or false. I'm just saying the rationales i've been given. I'm not really geopolitically savvy enough to agree with or contest their claims but just what. I've heard them say that they think that that's kind of been crushed on the continent and in the diaspora. I don't know if anyone else has any thoughts about that. I without even I'm not like a bowl. Murked by merck by obama was that i was saying like one one of the last pan-africanist that had any power In africa right on moammar gadhafi yup was killed by obama. Awesome but i would say though. They wouldn't kill them if they thought he was doing something right. You know yeah and without even getting into the pan african thing. I think there's something about Winfield's point in. I don't i don't i'm not super familiar with all the eighty staff but I think i think ultimately whether or not it's Part of to win. I don't think necessarily is is a moot point whether you believe in pan-africanism or not it's if ideas that you need to get your own group Something asking for reparations. I guess could be a means to get people excited. Join your cause but You still need to get power for your group and so It seems it seems that. I'm getting what i've gotten out of sort of what you've been talking about when this that you need to have that power base before you can have to ask to power otherwise you're likely to just get laughed at Not taken seriously or you'll get sort of an insulting offer. Like what if reparations came down to be five hundred dollars for each Black person in america and then from then on basically. You just told that we already did that. Like that wouldn't be beneficial. So i think i think the underlying point of having to build a power base. That has a lot of solidarity whether it's a worldwide or or whether it's With a single country our nation. I think. I think it's still a pretty well. I think the problem is personally. I don't think a global coalition is going to really help unless you have your own base because this is why. I think the problem is if you have a global coalition and your own interest group like does not even a name really for people who descend from black american slavery like does not even really a name like african american is not agreed on some people think it refers so many people descend from american slavery. Some people Think african american is anybody of african descent. Who is Who's living in. America or born america or whatever so some people. I'm an african american to some people. I'm not an african american. Because i'm of haitian descent and it's like if you can't even have an agreed upon name for example eighty westbound agreed upon name because people who hate yvette carnell and antonio more even if they're the center for american slaves they don't wanna call themselves eighty away so it's like okay if you're going to build some kind of coalition with Other black people around the world. You don't even really have a name for your group. Even then everyone even officially recognizes like that something that simple to me is one of them was basic things you even need like. I think american black culture is kind of very Ill defined in terms of names for it and and national agenda because it's so kind of mixed in with other other black people that makes that sense so i mean to a degree. Even i don't agree with all their conclusions. I do think some people involved in the eighty west movement Do go too far into zena phobia and also i think a mistake. That might have been made as they should not have given the movement the same name as what they wanted to call the city or the culture. Because they've made it so that if you don't like the movement then you're not going to want to call yourself That name but i do think even for that solidarity. You're going. I think they're going to get more punked in their movements by trying to form something with A global movement when everyone else is pretty self defined about who they are as a culture and what's it called himself and whatever and you don't have that sort it out you just going to be absorbed with everyone else because most of the things that i see Second generation immigrants talk about when it comes to this stuff. Ellison on twitter. Discussions is is how jamaicans and people haitian essentially beginning. American rep sue beginning. Us reparations to and doing things pieces about that and how people that don't even Descend from American slavery and i think without a robust Sense of black nationhood for the people who are descended from american slaves. I think the reparations. We'll just end up getting Diluted and spread around with a lot of other types of black people in a way that those same black people are not going to do in reverse like no one in. America is going to get a claim to haiti's reparations. From france or jamaica's reparations from england but i think a lot of people expect to get an equal share of america's operate american blacks reparations. Yeah i think you. The key point that you came across was nationhood nothing. That's kind of what supplies communicating about in the book. He's really talking about a national project. Is the only solution to this kind of thing. Because you can only express your identity fully and completely as a nation you know you can only have systems that you could only revise a system completely if you have your own nation. You can't reform this so you need something else. You know this like playing around with this forever. Just not an option. You could stay. You could say for eternity trying to put the round peg into the square hole. It's just not going to go in. So i just really think that Waste going to end up is going to be like the your iphone blow up in your leg and gave me third degree burns but they compensate you with a twenty five dollar. Earbuds is just gonna be something like that at the rate is going because there's no established powerbase to to to create that and i think before you get to that point you definitely need a national struggle and i feel like that is something that the people here have legitimately earned. But i just don't know why they don't pursue. Yeah i totally on. On that point i i think i completely agree with what you're saying. I i just wonder if it's the discrimination against black people in the us doesn't didn't start an end slavery and so even if you're the second generation immigrant but black here you still face discrimination. So i don't know if that's why i questioned whether reparations should be one of these i think question whether reparations to be the end goal versus like one demand and the nation idea of nationhood should probably be a little more broad to to get people who are who suffer today under the same kind of oppression to decca decca join together. Because i don't while the historical differences is meaningful really important I think i think trying to parse everybody out Is is maybe a fraud task. I mean it definitely won't be easy. That's for sure. But i mean i think at the end of the day. People should try. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. But i mean i feel like there is a lot of talk about how fraught and hard it is but it's also makes it tough to me is. It should have been happening long time ago. And part of the whole reason why it's so fraught and difficult and whatever is because right people an empire to me in america just tried to run out. The clock is kind of like people. Bring up oh look at all the generations that pass and whatever but whose fault is that. I mean forty acres in. The mule was pretty much on the table from the beginning. You guys didn't pay you. Guys kept Stalling installing and just oppressing more and more and disenfranchising more and more and then the situation that you created which is Two generations from slavery have have happened and it has been done like. I feel like it's kind of somebody's stonewalling and then using that situation. That was their fault to begin with as an excuse. Well hey now too. Much time has passed. How can we do it. So i mean i know. That's that's my point. People playing those games. They'll drive you. They'll they'll string you along for eternity and nothing will change but with a national projects. Unlike asking someone to give you give you a check or give you some compensation. People globally could stand behind that because they understand this isn't embattled marginalized group almost perpetually so i stand behind them being free of that you know and But those other things just too nebulous and to consume convoluted to get behind. And i think those are the kind of solutions that to be honest. Somebody that doesn't want to see you succeed would push on you to pursue you know because they don't want to see you succeed and the people who get behind it the only thing that they could do in terms of benefiting from it is perpetuating itself. Could they could eat off it. You know so Yeah i really feel like the national project is the only solution. And it's one that could legitimately be said has been earned you know so a cesary the say on that Hold on while. Take a look at the questions again. See where we left off So it's a chi- leaving anything out. If so what and speculate why Again these are hard questions to ask since the chapters that actually over yet were. Not you know so Take that with a grain of salt also offer any solutions and once against it's chapters not over He probably safe to say he doesn't but in case anyone does think something has been left out already or some solutions have been offer it. I'm asking the questions anyway. Okay so i'm going to take that to mean that people don't think those questions apply to this portion How do we relate this history to the present. How do public schools deal with this history. Do they exclude slash editorialize. It in what ways have these events shaped everyday life. That last part. I'll just say that. They make explicit the great migration part. So i would say as far as the events shaping everyday life i will say that The whole racial makeup of the us a distribution of black people and how black people are in urban areas in the north the west coast and all these different places directly stems from a lot of the stuff mentioned in this chapter. That's one thing that jumped out at me and the public schools dealing with this history and excluding editorializing I do think to some degree. The public schools mentioned racial terrorism as being a driving force in the great migration. But it's kind of rendered little bit generic like just Clansmen running around and hoods lynching and segregation and then people just got sick of the lynching the crosses and the segregation and then moved on. Whereas i feel like this chapter can really get into mechanics and the nuts and bolts of and how. It's not just a handful of people in hoods or whatever but ongoing economic exploitation that everyone benefited from and everyone worked together to maintain and and that perks from in various ways. From no man. Woman child you didn't have to be a a sharer for a card-carrying klan wizard to be a part of the terrorism and the benefits to that point. I thought it a really interesting part about this chapter was how a ties it to you. The population recruitment in vietnam. And he doesn't. I don't think he meant says it explicitly but how do you know how closely ties together. I also thought it was ties directly to a part that he brings up at the beginning where the cities in the eighteen twenty s in in the early eighteen. Hundreds were heavily black and they had to create the plantation systems to kind of regroup. These populations outside of these powerbases And it's kind of this this recurring theme of you. Know we have to move people and destroy their their power bases and any control they have over anything and kind of separate them and slowly. Destroy them on. I thought it was interesting. That he know he follows up talking about the great migration with the population. Cia probably population. Recruitment in vietnam and yet the thoughts. I thought the part of a Henry wallis was really interesting. Could i remember learning about him and people like people who were progressive talking about. If only because i guess at one point the democratic party like shut him out of the convention and i remember people talking about if only like he had become president like who ways things would have been different. And i think it's it's always interesting to see how no matter how progressive you can find a white person though. Always there's always some history of fucking over Bull in some way interesting. Yeah i agree if it was really funny at. There's a documentary series on netflix. That i watch part of that was pretty good about explaining the motivations behind everybody all the parties in the second world war But it's it's a over stones What is called. He is a huge huge fan of henry wallace and paints him out to be angel. Who could do no wrong. But at the same time doesn't talk about really anything going on in the us during this period just sort of like what the the higher people in the us government. It's always I agree it's always really interesting to to see someone who so. Why is ben. just be like exposed d. Do you guys remember the movie. Gods and generals. Did you see that highlight there. It's about the civil war. And at totally paints like you know the The confederates and just such a a good light. And what was last brought up is there's always fragmented history that's always pushed out without without actually taking into consideration. The context of what was going on. This was not as comprehensive type of things. It's just kind of you know creating cults of personality around people but if you really dig into everything like sequoias doing you'll you'll definitely have a different view of things that two hundred of wallace senate's a interesting situation. Another thing that that was happening. I guess i that was interesting. More along what. We talked about earlier with with how joining movements versus form your own. I thought it was really interesting. That in the previous chapter before the cpa usa was talked a lot about as art. Bit sadler laughed but here it this ep. Usa and some parts of the south was like almost exclusively black. And i thought it was really interesting point. I wonder if anybody had any thoughts about how that related to the earlier discussion about whether you should join other movements or or coming with your own. I i don't really. I don't really. I don't fully understand how that dynamic really worked out here. seems like they're almost two totally separate entities. Anyone wanna pick up on that. I think that's a good question. But i don't really know the answer to it. I'd only be. I'd only be guessing your same here. That's why i'm not answering. Don't feel qualified to but is a good question though. I just don't feel qualified to even speculate on. It might be something to think about between this week and next week maybe returned to the topic. There has anyone read the book hammer and who about about. I've never read it. Have you know. But i think it's written about this time. Rate was a communist in alabama during dirty. Yeah i noticed by robin digi kelly. And he's written some great Papers articles about black resistance black communism. He has a really good paper called black like mile where he talks about The long relationship between global communism and The black american freedom struggle and also how it was a two way street that there are a lot of black freedom fighters inspired by the global communist but similarly there are a lot of black and there are a lot of global communists who took A lot of tips and instruction and inspiration from black freedom fighters and were directly inspired by them. Uneven met with them nick when they traveled to america so i mean based on those articles. I have a lot of faith that hammering hose. Probably a good book. Like that's just me saying. I haven't read the book but i've read robin kelly talk about that subject and he's very thorough so i'm sure that's good that book so let's see what else if anybody has any thoughts to share that don't directly relate to the questions that we asked Oh wait Yakub watts the question. From before repeated the one that we were Stumped on can type in the chat ochre. Because i want to paraphrase phrase it in Butcher i have a question Earlier related to kind of the discussion about like black miss leadership. A lot of this book deals with how kind of the right wing politics of white people in america is directly related to their them being like kind of being off by empire and being included in that project I do other people think that that. That's part of the reason that i mean people get. I mean people get good jobs. Go on tv. I mean you get paid well on. I think that part of sakai's point is is that is to get a good job as you have to kind of buy into to these politics and i feel like for a lot of people. It's like to even survive to come to. This country has an immigrant right. You kind of have to buy into that a i. I wonder how actually don't think that. I agree with you on gusting. I would say is i think people use by off and buy in on interchangeably in. I think it's probably helpful to kind of differentiate between the two. Because i do think buying off kind of means you thought one way at first and if somebody bribed you whereas buying in from the start you never thought any other ways. So there's like a little more agency. And i mean it sounds like a distinction without a difference but what i would say is i feel like back. People or people of color are more likely to Be bought off like some level. They kind of realized that their values should be to defend black people and put you know black people's politics rights i but they see the benefits that come from individualism and from assimilating and then They allow those get kind of bought off bottles perks. But i think a lot of us are kind of raised to at least understand. We're supposed to be a certain way. But i think and this is where i do disagree with a lot of right. Left about the white working class or the white lower middle-class is The white left is kind of try to portray the poor whites and the white blue collar. Some kind of Innate or default class solidarity. That's cross racial and that they were kind of bought off whereas a sky kind of pointed out from the very for chapter they came here fully bought into the idea that we're going to have social mobility. We're going to be the people with our feet on other people's necks even if we have to start off a little bit under someone's Boot that it was always part of the plan for them. You know Yeah so so for like you know the first settlers right. That's i think that's true. I think also kind of these like people who were like you know what he calls them really the the communists. Second revolutionary races like the the eastern europeans and stuff who weren't who weren't included in kind of whiteness. At first i feel like what's a chi- is like saying like how they became white as they like. They threw away their connection to the kind of their national homelands and and started promoting the interests of of america instead. And i wonder in this question. Because i think about like lake right wing asians. Who like what. I think about like people who like kind of like support their home country. They're generally left wing and people who support america are generally right wing and i wonder how like that effects like as well like i wonder what what you guys think about that basically says i answered the last time you know dirt out to someone else to kind of share their thoughts In the chat yet to just posted something that i think. I think it goes along with this really well. And he said that there is a there was a a black female writer said that to become fully american emigrant must take on anti black sentiment and i think that aligns with kind of what you're talking about is if you're going to to become americanized you need to unita basically except that that sort of like mindset that america is is thing that matters and mike American like capitalism. Imperialism goes against sort of nationalist respect for your own country so i think i think there's something there's something really tied together statement enough. I'm answering the question. But it's not just white immigrants but i think a lot of immigrants color including other black immigrants were degree by into this. You know at the very least I have to buy into anti-black americanise as a black immigrant to Become fully american. So i think that's an underrated phenomenon. It's one of the reasons why i think that lack americans do have to to two degree to Create like a universally recognized name for themselves that just covers of american descent. And you know kind of formulate some kind of From definitions of what their agendas and culture is outside of just general blackness. Because i think that a lot of times And i get in trouble for saying this a lot. But i think a lot of times. People underestimate how and not all not you know. I'm not trying to fuel like designer phobia thing. But i do think one of the pros. I think i have with this discussion. Is that young people who try to act like all black. Immigrants are just anti-black america in our Sellouts or whatever or you have people who act like it's doesn't exist and it's pure gas lighting and as a result no nuance gets brought to the conversation. A whole middle ground and spectrum in gradations get lost. And that's my big problem with the whole discussion is It's always one extreme or the other so it was like one person trying to say like Anybody with a foreign flag in their profile is going to be a butter biscuit sellout and another person of saying oh. None of that ever happens is just lies and back. Americans buy into american imperialism. And they're the white people black people and it's just it's just a messy discussion. I think at the end of the day. I don't know if that ties into the question. If i took it even further away but i think i think all this stuff ties into it for sure. I'm curious to see Everyone's opinion here. But do you think of the turned. The car uses a new african in place of black or african american better than african american. But it might just sound better hundred censure things better name but may have been applicable. You know at the time but I don't know man when with with things like that are always think it's it's up to the agency and up to the individual to define themselves So forth System thoughts you hughes comments. He said That new african not worth using today to close to quote unquote new black. An echo at some awesome saying chat. That new black is. This sounds pretty bad too. Yeah yeah you'll if the with Talking about what the uses I think at the time it made sense because You know little black americans weren't as integrated into our society as they are now but i think now it's a bit difficult to to us even an umbrella term because You know there is no law nation right. It's everything is really become blurred pun intended You know like blurred to to the point where people don't even know what they are Despite not being accepted you know what. I mean that make any sense. It makes sense to me. I'll give you an example of something that i think comes up a lot That i think ties into the whole blurring this Via was on twitter. And and vida vida said. I wonder if we'll see African american President in our lifetimes. What she meant was descended from American slavery and it was kind of that problem. I was talking about where a lot of people were kind of flipping out and some were agreeing disagreeing and 'cause they took african american to mean different things. Some people were like. Oh we've we've had that and you're being xenophobic. You're denying african american president or vice president in his like. Oh you being xenophobic Because you're denying the blackness of the blackness of obama and and kamala and kamla harris and she was on mighty nine their blackness. I'm talking about people from american slaves and there was that cross talk but then Someone came barreling into the chat and what was interesting was the person was even black. It was a white liberal lady. She was saying the same thing. You're erasing their blackness. And this and that and then I was asking her like how she Erasing the blackness and issues like When the police pull you over they don't and people say this a lot. I find it super insulting. I'm not even American slavery descent and i. It's super insulting as an onlooker that i find it someone salty. She goes Back the police don't check if you're Straight or gay. Don't check if you're of jamaica center nigerian descent when they pull you over Black people of all of all Different countries in races face racism. And you now Back you all around the world base oppression and it's like okay. What does it have to do with being lineage or culture. You know that would be and i asked if it was reversed if someone said i wonder if we're going to get An jiri in american President or vice president or a haitian american vice president or president. Would you say to them. Oh you're racing komo comma harris or barack obama's blackness Black people all over the world are pressed are. Police can't tell which black person is from what country they disapprove issue so therefore you should accept common harris's nigerian or you should Barack obama is haitian and count them as your first haitian american president and she was like. Oh yeah that's different because that's That's a culture array. So i was like so what you're saying is black. American culture is just suffering and being shit on by people like like they don't have like lineage. Like that's all and people do this all the time. When sam jackson brought up That thing about British actors taking american rose instead of responding with all. Well this is why. I think people should have responded. They want to respond. They should have said hey Hey acting as acting anyone should be able to play anyone as long as they're the best person for the job and i think that In these particular roles the british people were the best people for the job. And or you know. I think rack. American people should be allowed to play british people in england. They want to and and i have no problem with that. Or you know talk about the merits of. Who's the best person for the job. But instead and the guy from get out said this and other people set Yeah the police. Pull me over to bro like that. That was his response. He said You know. I face racism to and in england. You know I've been rooms where i've been and it's like do with the lineage. Has nothing to do with the culture that that's not even an answer. that's highly insulting. Like you know if if it was reversed. Because i think he's of african descent. Someone was using that to justify playing an african. Like you know well i i've been. I've been a second class citizen answer. I deserve but people don't really think of it that way So i'm just saying that's something. I noticed that being black american up descended for american slaves so a lot of people and including even the black american people. I've seen american black people of the center for american slaves uses logic and sam jackson where you know like you being divisive Racism effects. Everyone put police shoot Foreign descend the blacks. The same this belief that that's all being the center from american slaves is defined by Being shut down by white people. That's it that's the culture. That's the lineage. that's i think people. I think education has a lot to do with it but i think people have kind of adopted this whole dismissive lack of nuance when it comes to other people beside themselves. Because i've even seen on conversations you know online where people will make these false equivalences about. Oh you know the police pull me over to. But you wouldn't if you're from the one specific tribe in your country you wouldn't want to have somebody call you by another tribe and i know that's just a generalization. Don't wanna stereotype anybody. But i think what it comes down to is. One is intellectual laziness. And it's just a lack of empathy in even within. You know african american culture. You know somebody from baltimore is way different than somebody from la. And i think that you know. I hate using this term man We need to have more conversations about affording people more nuance and being empathetic in that way. if that makes sense yet but i think it's deeper than conversations. I think it's a i think. Bob watt am blacks on bottom whites on top is specially true for black americans. Because i feel like they're the purest idea of what black is and what i mean by that is people other countries. You're not really black. Unless you have non black people to really contract yourself with so people from foreign countries in the black the aspirin. They're black but there really more black when they come to this country more than any other time in their home countries there are color is in my play more of a role. Your classmates makes be more of a role like i mean. Africans don't really become black unless it's in relation to non black Black is not really a concept outside of phnom black and that's what kind of happens allow these home countries is You know they're they're black but they're not really culturally black until they come here and have to form their identity in addition to a dominant group and i think that's kind of what out this conversation so much as no the asprey group i think is as black as american descended. Blacks because their whole identity is kind of forced to be created under a dominant majority. That is not that islam black. So i have to question that because if you look at all these countries especially on african continent that were colonized and genocide by europeans for so long i think they have a very good idea of what being black means but that's what i'm saying there had the necklaces formed in. In contrast to win. They're being dealt with as whites whites but they also at the end of the day. When the colonization is over they do they are able to be in a place where there the majority where they can think about. Colonization never ended. Because if you go to the capital outflows. Colonization didn't end there even though they might be living in a place where the majority of the population there's still a small cadre of people that own eighty percent ninety percent of all the arable farmland that own all of the factories that own the means production and it's been pasta is generally for generations. Even if it's just a sliver of the population as i think the people that really really really really do know but sites to be black. Probably at a deeper level there. Because you've got to think about this if you're in a place where ninety percent of the people are black. The government isn't run by you. That's really telling you how black you walk even if your hair you know and in here you could argue that. It's even unique because people take a lot but there are minority. you know. See some would argue that you know majority rules but in a place where majority and you're still destitute black means but what i'm saying is i'm not saying they don't know what it's like to be black at all. I'm saying that the most knowledge of being black is here because here you're like thirteen fourteen percent of the population and i think Like what i'm saying. 'cause people in foreign countries foreign the aspro countries. They know they're black. They get reminded their black when they get call is when they have tourists comment treat the whole country like their servants or whatever but the way the level to which is inescapable i think is very very different so if you think of it as like a as a spectrum i think i mean i can't speak to every country but They even i know about haitians. Even used the word black. A lot of times as synonymous with black american. But if you were to ask them also if they were black they get back like. They don't think they're not black but he's still catch themselves. calling black culture black american culture because it's nothing but that is nothing but To whiteness. I think i'm i think i'm giving an understanding. Okay so i think t maybe your thing is saying that black american culture which which it is it's more seen. I don't wanna say recognized. Internationally right is that is it kind of what what you're saying. Think i think he's just let me know how i'm taking as and you could clarify if you want t but this is what i think when america what. What's the the the title in baseball called. What are you in the world series. Dependents world series. Right yeah exactly super bowl. Champions of the world champions. It's only in america though. No one else plays baseball football out here like because i don't think reward or a championship i know what i'm saying but i'm saying though with baseball being the world series is that only really two countries even play. How could you be the champion of. That's a binary you either the champion or not. I'm talking. I know but what things title it snow. The title itself is the world series. They didn't play the world to win but they call themselves. World champions my point there's a little bit of like there's a little bit of ignorance in baked into that because to be considered you know americans consider american blackness somehow different or distinct from blackness. Everywhere else you could argue that every is going on in every black nation is is unique in its own sense because look the place where there's the most black people the nation's meshal borders when even made by those people you know so i think it's baked into the consciousness of people everywhere that being black a very unique experience in this world and i just and i think that's that that that that gr- grasping you know are suffering. These unique i unit suffered special is is is different. Here is right the same wall that's being put up around blackness that divides but people were all globally. Going through the same thing. You might look somewhere else to save me just a different gravy and i think it people realize that nothing's going to change because you'll you're can have a a an oppression olympics with people that you're you're all playing the same. You're all on the same team you know so one thing i will say is i do believe there is some difference in that. I think there's a reason why Blacks of the espera tend to outperform Black of this for american slaves and now is because They're like better or smarter. Whatever but i do think there is something that comes from not having to think of your blackness all the time twenty four seven in a way. i'll say for like places like in the caribbean where you grow up and you don't have the constant messaging in the media saying that like you know your shit because you're black like all the tv shows everyone's black Your local doctor. Your teachers everything is black and this is not to say that. It's all or nothing like you know. People know that they're black people get reminders. People are have holdovers from colonialism Even tourism reminds them and stuff. But what's interesting. I love people. Don't talk about when you talk about the advantages or how how backs from the espera tend to fare better in you know school and work and stuff here and you know people use it as kind of proof that you know black. Americans are whining about racism and so forth but the studies show are within a generation. All those advantages like disappear by the time you have second generation. American would add to grow up in knowing nothing but this of being a minority and it didn't look like they perform the same as as black americans who descend from american slaves and the reason is because you're operating an assistant you're in the heart of white supremacy effectively as a minority within it s. The people here. Like i said if they had their own national project depri- would be fair a lot better off because society. We demand that they have certain amount of doctors certain amount of teachers a certain amount of engineers to maintain the infrastructure of nation. So that just plays toward the move for nationhood but then when you look at what's going on hundred years later from where we were. There's i don't think. I don't think black pride in african connectivity. As part of the general people has been any lower than it's ever been people. See a little bit more disconnected. They're chasing something totally different. They're looking for the world series championship ring as opposed to being real world champions but Yeah that's it. It's because you're a minority in the heart of the heart of the beast man your hair if they had their own. Yeah as repeat myself but yeah that's that's that's the question I remember taking a sociology class years ago. And it was something that i'm always stuck with me and It was the concept of Being even though someone A group was in america. Whatever a having a flag an language Really the having that identity is I forgot exactly what the statistics were but definitely played a positive part. I think As t- mentioned like the second third generation of people who learned the us that becomes diluted that kind of You know share. I identity and what you're saying with winfield you know Having that kind of That you know solidarity that camaraderie once you start to integrate into american society where you become a second class citizen Yet you're gonna you know whatever happens. Whatever the Social psychological word for it is called. But you definitely start to reap the negative the negative effect because those people might have done better because they knew a world outside of this place. They haven't experienced outside of this place like you said. He had examples of people that were not the things that they are hair so they had something to aspire to that was based intangible reality but by the second or third generation when they go to school the other kids who been here for a long time They come to the they start coming to the same conclusions and start building their identity in the same way as those people that have been here for a long time so they in effect become those people and as a result they will be treated that way because they psychology is that way the behaviors that way their put into the world. Is that way they just become. You know what's already hair yet. But i think i agree with that but what i'm saying that thing i'd be absorbed is is the identity of the self definition of being black before anything else like Like i feel like a lot of people. From the aspect will save i i am jamaican own I'm also black. If you asked him to describe how they define themselves or you know. I'm haitian 'cause they don't really have to think about being black all the time when everyone is black it kind of fade to the background of your the minute to minute thinking you got no point. Don't think you're not black but it's not constantly in your face and remind reminded of it as it is Here and again. I define blackness has something that exists in relation to Other races like i don't think I think back people. Have i think african people had to be made Black yeah i actually agree with not like as a person who came from ghana. I think i think what you're trying to say is like blackness is like seen as the negation of whiteness. Or if witnesses like idea of freedom than blackman's is an idea like subjugation but if you're not amongst white people in a like if you're in ghana you're not amongst white people therefore that negation of freedom is not as parent or at least not in kearns. Niger mattis appeared constant. Every minute of your day. Yeah and so coming to america. Now i would like being here twenty plus years now. I consider myself black before being gone yet. But i had to learn that. So i agree with what you're saying. I i and i don't think that in ghana. I remember people really calling themselves black or even talking about ten african them. Yeah this in the book. The history of of white people This this kind of conversation is actually takes up. The you know the the last few chapters of the book. yeah like bull. You're breaking up from me. But i don't know if it's for everyone is it just for me to okay Yeah beat you still breaking up. You're still breaking up a road to sorry Did you do something different. Because you were clear before now this driving driving right now. Oh so maybe your mouth is like moving from the Michigan has a crash. I don't want anyone to die from the book club. That's a big downer They wanna try again. Who wrote to or i'm all. Okay yeah it's still not. It's still not working. Maybe you're reception is sparked when you said he's almost song always almost. Okay yes they jump back on with his point. But then also t i was gonna wonder as what a question what do you think. The definition of blackness is here. That makes it different from everywhere. Else what i think the definition visit here. That makes it different than everywhere. Yeah yeah and when. I say i'm talking about from from the majority. The dominated perspective. I'm talking about from the perspective of the people that hold it. How do you think like identity as seen here versus somewhere else. You know that would be adding to the Disparity in outcomes and stuff. 'cause i think some of it is due to an inbuilt psychological damage or in psychological pattern. You know it's it's not natural. Yeah no it's not natural. I spoke about this woman Carole and i also spoke about. I believe his name is claude steele Who built off the research of carole. And it's pretty interesting stuff It wasn't relation to the movie and relax. People watched last week but her research ended up being used with a lot of Black people because it was her research was about a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset in the fixed mindset comes from this idea that your capacity is fixed as in it can't be improved upon. You can't do anything about it. You are who you are and you're either smart or dumb and life is about just trying to figure out from the context clues which one you are and being afraid of finding out that You're among the inferior or superior and like how that keeps people from improving and lisa. All these bad life outcomes or doing worse than school whereas if you think if you believe that your capacity is malleable and changeable In accordance to your willingness to work hard they find as all these better Outcomes that happen and people like the ability to feel that you can Improve yourself and and grow allows students like they found that students who they instill that in They're able to get all types of scholastic improvements From them and i think nationally in america. i think there's been a longstanding national project to instill in black americans. The idea that they are fixed. I'll that iq stuff like re look race night. And what a big part of the racial discourse that is and it's still won't go away. It's still something that people have to pervasively fight against no matter how often it gets debunked or whatever asks be entertained every generation brand new I think based on like directs research and steal stereotype. Research is the same thing. Apply to black people I believe the term they used was cognitive. Load like a cognitive load is when there is a certain amount of your psychic horsepower or energy constantly being dedicated toward monitoring whether you Correlate to stereotypes whether you're confirming or denying stereotype that you can never just be like if somebody is abroad in his class. Full of black people in Haiti or ghana jamaica. There's not this kind of thing. Whereas like i have to prove that black people aren't in fear because whoever the valedictorian isn't going to be black like you have the whole gamut. There is not that be able to cognitive load. Is this idea that there's a certain amount of a black person's mind dedicated At any given time toward constantly monitoring whether they Confirm or disprove stereotypes and that dish into the whole fixed mindset research There's a lot of things that happen. This country six centuries worth of propaganda and messaging to this day. That is meant to gaslight peop- black people to thinking that they're unchangeable. You know and The bell curve is probably the most recent famous one. But that's been part of the country's negro question from the beginning like are they. Are they improvable. You mean so when you say and change you mean inferior and permanently so yes yes not just inferior but permanently so or that by nature or by their. Their upper limit is Naturally lower than Why it is for other people and if you look in his country has always been a pervasive debate like the main person saying it may have always changed. But you know it's still. I mean it's still taking pretty seriously like charles murray's not a pariah he still gets Taken seriously andrew sullivan Guests to appear in like batman versus superman and right for new york magazine. It's i mean. I think there's a real message that like on the that. These people are not pariahs in the way that a holocaust denier is you know. I think when people see that to some degree they gotta kinda realize a lot of people. Think this even if they don't they say they don't even just by nature of the fact that people will entertain it debate even on the other side of it. You know with counter studies or whatever in a way to do to a holocaust now if you're a holocaust denier and you say Holocaust happen people just like get the hell out of here. You're not gonna see of jewish people doing like long drawn out cases or or liberal allies trying to say well actually you know he was all these you know for the most part. It's not even worth entertaining. And i think seeing all that i think mentally hassle really affect black americans I think when you come to this country and especially if you're born in your second generation third generation you're getting raised into that same messaging. I think you ended up buying into the same. I would say. Yeah well what. I find really difficult to understand. Is why people would. Actually you know. Buy in to take on those cultural cues. 'cause i really don't i don't believe in them at all and i think it's really obvious to see the lie because there's just so much evidence all around me prove opposite but Yeah just some things. I just really get stuck on this one of them. I don't i just don't see how people could buy it. But i mean well to me. It's like when you see someone who was raised abused and you know some people say i don't see why he just don't talk back but that person was raised different like it's it's i think when you have nothing but that forever You get kind of stockholm syndrome. You turn allies. Like people internalize their that messed up voice from that parent and some degree especially in this country like i like white people or the parents of back people. I mean i think to some degree. That's the case everywhere. But i think it's especially in escape aboard here just to the just exhibit all to say to the one thing i'm the say i think idea silliest gonna say something next but people kind of misunderstand pan-africanism because when you actually read Like marcus garvey works. Especially there's like a good section of it. that explains that you know. The status quo is not natural because we had we are all echo potential people. He actually speak those basic human tenants in his work. Saying that you know there's nothing that someone else can have that you cannot have because you have the ability to build it too and Yeah i feel like just moving away from that is probably partly why we have the situation or in because if we actually saw sells. I'm not even saying it's better. You know because that's goes into a phobia and all that other stuff but if we just saw ourselves as equal really believed it. Then we you know national push wouldn't be seen as impossible solidarity wouldn't be seen as impossible you know But at some point on the line is the weakest people being picked or the most malleable get get bought or this or this betrayal. Because if you really believe that you were and you can have equal and do or even do more. You wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't. You wouldn't go down there debt you know. Let us to worry today. Anyone else have any thoughts. Because i don't want to turn way conversation or go on now. I think that you know Brought up some very good good points man. But the soul like notion of indoctrination. This really makes me think of like what newly fuller it talks about. And you know the nine areas of activity And how that plays a role into that psychological thinking know Especially when it comes to know black people here in this country and so here you go. I'm sure i'm back on or you sound very clear now. Much better much better. Yeah yeah. I was say like The end of the history of white people That in the end of that entire book Basically shows that whiteness minority by the today needs blackness. It's just a suit i even. If somebody reads the last four chapters like it's amazing and you kind of were talking about that t- when you mentioned the reysen iq and how with the growth mindset and stuff like it's it's deep man. It's really something that's been happening in the us for a long time and Yes something that we been internalized not not only as you know black people but You know this whole concept that we saw in the past five years about western civilization in these type of things. This is actually really really old ideas yum very get repackaged. Yeah and someone. Each generation shows up like in the seventies. Was this guy because name was shockley. And he said debate francis cross welson stuff and he's get interviewed in playboy magazine like it was very mainstream and he got this credited because he went too far in the playboy magazine interview. They asked them the question that no one asked him up until that point didn't said wait. Okay this is all fine and good. But what do you do with this information. Like we all day and night. If black people are genetically inferior intellectually whatever but What do you wanna do about it and up until then. That was the first person i ever asked him that Ironically enough even like francis wilson and the rest of them all they did was just debate him on the merits of the i thing and then he said well You can sterilize. Said all the second heinous stuff was busy eugenics and then boom he was gone. That was the end of his public Career yet camario said shock these nobel prize winner. Yeah but it can be surprising. The generated by and stuff. And i that alone. Kind of Effect black people to see it being to see their intelligence being sincerely debated not even by them but by other people and that people have every race or joining in. And you're forced to entertain seriously but Yes was gone but then they learn each time. Because if you look charles murray you know they learn from shockley you charles. Murray does not advocate. He does the same playbook as shockley but they know now. You don't actually say what you're going to do and if you are asked you play coy in. It's yeah it's It it's it's weird. I don't know maybe somebody has a all and could take on this but it seems like for the past hundred years It's been about you know. Hold them black people down like And and something. That is interesting. Because i'm what europe was able to do Was you know. take over the world. But like you'll like astra's freaking huge even how we look at matt's maps are are represented. You know really. You know a warped and africa looks like a really small continent stuff and it's full of people so it just it just kind of seems like this this. This is like You know to to suppress black americans and suppress The group of people in the most powerful country in the world is know I caught like a united project By a lot of different groups of because you know with the stands for Is you know it's it's not wrong. You know like a descendant of slaves are owed you know for six hundred years of free labor you know. And and Has its a seems like you know as as reactionary or whatever the word you wanna tied to aid. us Justice claim is legit slow. I think is kind of what The american project has has has been about is to is to suppress that justice claim. Let alone the all the other countries that uses. Fuck with bill o. Past you know a hundred So that three hour mark. So i try not to let it go Too far past three hours so You know anyone wants to keep talking about it Or in general you know after we start recording is fine. But i thought we'd leave this last five or ten minutes for anyone who wants to share any final parting thoughts about The reading today to do so low to tie back to what you in winfield we're talking about about the blackness and how we define it in like how we own to tie that back to settlers. The way that i've always looked at it is that Laxness has largely been the construct of white people to sort of negate to use what mario was talking about to negate african people's humanity. And in a way you're talking about in africa you're not really black. T. how 'bout lists the case at one point. Have you know people who we now call black ethnically were once african book. They were transported to the slave trade so america in their culture their histories race in there. Just give the place in black. And i feel like a lot of the discourse around this where we're trying to come up with name soar. Even higher subs nationally will get a saudi diffused. Like how sky was talking about even tie back to ask that question funky. I think about how how we organize now. The communist party usa largely was the subway colonial organization but in software was lack nationalistic. One in to try to square that where you have a lot of the discourse being guided by white supremacists notes in the blackness. The tries to muddle the lines between woodenness speed. Black racially like royd and black ethnically like idiot less. Because you're saying how you get into these arguments with like white people trying to say like all year racing these people's blackness in so and so like that's like a part of the problem that winfield is addressing the bill recourse between black people. Move all of the other aspects to try to weed out to buy say to white people in black people were speaking these white. Supremacist talking points like no. This is what we mean. This is what we need to talk about. We need to have institutions to really solidify what we mean so when we have groups like ideo or black white snyder we have actual platform to launch demands from rather than sort of going along with what the framework has already been presented for Sweb the way that i was meeting this chapter how they were saying how the southern tenant farmers union was stood. Coopting this Black militancy for their own benefit. That's only been keep on happening in happening. So long as we don't have our own national but organization group coalition. Whatever it's going to be but it needs based in national struggle of blackness. Wanna call it. Anyone else wants to have any Parting thoughts on the book before we go. Thanks for sharing. Boyd broadway okay. Serve seems like everyone is talked out. So i think is a good place to end it. thanks everyone for joining us and also You know if you're listening to this on the replay feel free to join us in the next installments. Fridays book club saturday movie night. And all you have to do is just figure out how to connect to the discord. And if you can't figure out how to connect to the champagne sharks Voice chat discord server. Either your dms on patriots or senator email champagne sharks at gmail.com all right and thanks everyone. If you body be good and see you guys next week.