Balancing Measurement, Common Sense and Intuition | 4A's Strat-Fest Fireside Chat


Having that DNA has helped me the amount of times, I've walked into a meeting where the Millard Brown case study that data logic study, and the mom have said everything is phenomenal. And the businesses down seventeen percent is way too often, and somehow we accept that. So I think we have to have far more serious conversation around measurement because we're measuring the wrong things this is we are absolutely somehow, eliminating common sense from the equation. This is the Gary v audio experience. Today. You'll hear an awesome episode from the four as strat fest back in October of two thousand sixteen Gary talks a lot about the shortcomings of traditional media dealing in alternatives and the ROI of different situations. Enjoy the episode and the rest of your weekend. Please let us know thought on social Gary v up next. He will know she said we have to Chaz next to me, one of these chess is for Kerry Flynn, who is a journalist, who's written full Huffington Post Forbes, money magazine and is now business reporter for mash -able with this particular specialism in the tech industry. The other CIA is full, Gary von choke, who has a familial headline, which is new builds businesses. And that is something that absolutely no one can argue straight out of college. He took his family business from three million to sixty million in five years. He's a prolific angel investor and venture capitalist investments. Including Uber Facebook and Birch box. He now runs. Veda media, social media. First digital agency and has been named to both fortune and Crain's forty under forty list this year. Please welcome carrying, Gary. Hello. Hey guys, thanks for that great introduction. So, yes, some Kerry Flynn, I write from mash -able and here with Gary. So I'm guessing you guys. I mean you've got a brief introduction. I'm thinking you guys, probably all know Gary beaner, Chuck. But I would love Gary for you to introduce yourself. When you go to an event. How do you how do you introduce yourself? What think you know, I think the fragmentation of attention and marketing and calms is so intriguing actually think how many people here have no idea who I am raising? That was pretty better. I'm that was a good ego boost. Usually, usually how I go into conferences asked that question and the number is always very, very high. And I can only see the organizers squirming of either they overpaid me or they feel bad for me. But usually I you know, I contextualize myself as an entrepreneur, but I always reverse engineer the audience, right, like my biggest my biggest want up here in our next thirty minutes is I was walking around and looking at name tags asked ahead of time. We talked to me what I'm going to deliver is the context of what I think, is the most interesting and most valuable thing to talk about to the people in the room. I think as somebody who's been on stage a lot. I'm fascinated by how eighty percent of presentations are just one long press release. Right. So I think I take this very seriously. And the way I introduced myself usually is under the context of what could conceivably bring value to the people in the audience? Great. Well, then let's talk a little bit about being in media in terms of building that out because it seems to be really went with that mission in mind what did you really want to offer the world that didn't that didn't exist before? So I. I grew up in my family's liquor store business that I watched one of the first e wind businesses in one thousand nine hundred six and I built my business with no money and the reason it became a big business because I Google ad words the day came out for five cents a click for the word wine. And because I started a YouTube show, five months after YouTube came out and because I had an Email newsletter in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven that had ninety one percent open rates. And so my entire narrative has been very simple. And I think for all of us in this room, I think the world is pretty basic, mainly because I'm pretty basic, which is there's overpriced attention, and there's underpriced attention and while most of the world spends a lot of time trying to quantify and find the ARA, why of underpriced attention. I think the better model is to be a practitioner on your intuition around normal people's behavior. Learn it and maximize the ROI. So I did that for my family business. That went great that I invested in all these companies Facebook Twitter tumbler made a lot of money, and then I decided in my continued mission to buy the New York Jets though, they're testing me. That the way I was going to do that was to buy brands and flip them. So I think nostalgia is the most underpriced asset in the world. And so my dream is to buy Tootsie rolls or case with sneakers or what have you at scale fifty sixty one hundred two hundred million dollars. Do the thing that I do, and then flip it for one billion dollars. And that's how I think I from self-aware standpoint can achieve my audacious goal to do that. I knew I knew that I needed to understand marketing and media at the scale of which I wasn't playing at as an entrepreneur, and as the best. So I decided seven years ago to each ship for a decade and build a client service, business and, and. And, and I needed to learn why all these big brands were doing the things that I thought were stupid because I didn't have the audacity or the ego to think they were stupid. I just knew they were playing a different game. I had to understand why on a bad student, I learned by doing. And so I set out to build the best marketing machine is what I would call it more than an agency. And, and so we've grown very fast. I two years, I was still busy with the wind business, and I had a book that went very viral that kind of ragged me out there. And but for the last five years in the business, we've gone from thirty to seven hundred fifty people from three to one hundred million in revenue, all organic, no Manet. So we built a real big business. And I think we've done it because our interests have been aligned with our clients, because I'm not trying to build an agency to sell to Martin sorelle. I'm trying to buy build an agency for myself to become my clients, which is allowed us to be very aligned with our clients, which is very different than the. Marketplace of media agencies and marketing agencies, and we also do every capability because I'm building it for myself, we do media buying and creative, and extend Devon. So that's, that's why it happened. Let's talk about the early days, then you said you looked around and it's all of these brands doing, quote unquote, stupid things. Yes. What are you don't have to name names, a telethon you give me some examples about what were people doing wrong? I mean look I mean to sit in this room in October twenty sixteen and have, you know, it's funny. Let's take this go out with one of your friends that has nothing to do with marketing or business and explain the bowling. Okay. So here's how it works a human, a single human at an agency a creative lead and another human on the brand side. And let me tell you about the human on the brand side. This person went to business school to sell stuff and run. An operational Pia. No, these people sit the creative single person humanly makes us. Subjective. Call on a tagline and a video concept. Narrows it down from the seven rate. I the Asians of his or her team to one or two because you only have an hour to present it, they go to the human that is there to run a panel. And the two of them make a subjective creative call of what that business should stand for, for the entire year. And then that company takes sixty to eighty percent of its monies and makes a single thirty second video to be played in a commercial format in twenty sixteen. And this is to drive the sales of their business. There's no common sense, human on earth. That thinks that's a good idea. We in the marketing world play that game. I think that's insanity. That excites me. That's the opportunity. Not really. I mean like like on like I mean I, I don't know who does what I mean I could be wrong. The marketplace itself out, but who watches a commercial in two thousand sixteen like so here I want to quantify this, I'm not a digital list or a futurist. I think the Super Bowl commercial is the number one by in marketing, if I buy brand tomorrow, and I have a limited amount of money, the first thing I buy is the Super Bowl because everybody in America is going to pay attention to that whether they watch it on YouTube, we're doing the game. And I thirty seconds to tell you what I'm about the problem with Super Bowl ads. Is there a showcase for creative agencies to get new clients and acquire more talent? They're not there to sell shipped. Right. So I think that's the best buy marketing, I think the worst by in marketing, in the world is the second most expensive commercial on television. I don't know what that is, whether it's the Oscars or the AFC championship game. Game or the Emmys. I don't know what it is. But it's the worst because we do watch those commercials. It goes to commercial and we grab our phone and we talk about that dress or that play or what just happened are attentions not there. My living is very simple in my bio where it says, I built businesses. I don't know what paper my team sends around these days. But on the website, it says, comma, I dates rate attention attention is the only asset it's the only asset and there's overpriced attention and there's underpriced attention direct bail, is overpriced attention, it works spend one hundred thousand dollars direct mill you will get things to happen. But when you know that there's a Facebook targeted world out there that you could do it better and cheaper. That's a better idea. And so that's just what I spend my whole life doing. What's overpriced? What's underpriced, what's practical? I try to put myself out of business every day if I started baiter media today, we would be an Alexa, boy. Message bought top level, domain, consultant video production, vertical phone shop, so so, so. I don't know what are we talking about? You've heard about what you guys are you talking about television? You talked about Facebook. So from understand that people in the room, you could say there are certain agencies that specialize in television. There are certain agencies, specialize in digital. There's an agencies that your like you're saying, I'm specific voice recognition chat bots. You guys do actually want to conquer at all. He has when I say, concrete all a, my first level of responsibility is to deliver for our clients, because they're paying us so vain in its current form today, what we want to do for a living is, we want to spend our clients money in a way that sells them the most stuff or whatever they're trying to achieve, and we are completely agnostic to where this, I built my career on Twitter, it's where I came out of for some of you that know, lamb, I wasn't happy, the Twitter was losing attention in two thousand eleven but when I was making those videos, five years ago like I'm worried about this. Like I was worried about it. I was at the top of the heap. I was one of the twenty five most followed people in the world. World on Twitter like life was good. I wish Twitter stained for thousand years. It would have been easy. I wasn't happy to put in work on buying and Snapchat Instagram. It just it's not my choice and what I'm fascinated by is how many people are willing to lines in the sand and hold onto things because they're in their short term financial vested interest. It is a massive business phone ability. And so what do people need to get rid of, like, if you had to give people a list of like three things, maybe people should stop doing their current agencies emotion emotions of good thing to get rid of, and I mean, that I think like a lot of things that are holding people back is, is the emotion of it. They hold certain things on a pedestal we hold. For example. Let me let me give you a good example. We think somehow in our current society, we decided that if you write another human being a letter that you're somehow now the greatest fucking human being on earth, like, we put things on pedestals for no reason, we are so. Scared of change that we put writing a letter on a pedestal because this somehow means you care so much versus a text which at the end of the day are exactly the same thing. If you write the same thing, it's the message is the same. It's the medium of delivery. So I think the first thing that people need to do is actually get rid of a motion number two is have a real conversation about measurement. Yeah. Like measurement is one of the great things that happened to me is, I started an agency knowing nothing about the business, and I'm eating nothing have nothing. It was actually quite stupid, but, you know. But what I did know was my life as an immigrant, that had a family liquor store business. Our KPI was not winning award in France, or getting a headline in a magazine or some bullshit, bottling mix. That was manipulated to force company to spend money on what they believe in, like, archea was selling Pino Grecia. Right. And so having that DNA has helped me the amount of times, I've walked into a meeting where the Millard Brown case study, the data logic study, and the minimum have said everything is phenomenal. And the businesses down seventeen percent is way too often, and somehow we accept that. So I think we have to have far more serious conversation around measurement because we're measuring the wrong things this is we are absolutely somehow, eliminating common sense from the equation. I mean there's a lot. I mean, there's I just think it's fundamentally fascinating. I mean, I don't think agencies are built tool have aligned interest with their clients, which is why you get into weird tactics. I think there's hidden cost and production, which is ludicrous. I mean I don't know. I think the whole thing is that I don't think it's by the way, who am I, I'm one dude? I just think that I just think it's a very interesting ecosystem, like I wouldn't do meeting the first presentation was a by a PR company that claimed that some mention in huff PO fourteen pages into their website, attributes eighty million impressions for the month. I mean like we're just playing weird games. I think we're a lack. We're just eliminating commonsense. And I think that's a huge mistake, I think mentors is a great thing to talk about in terms of that. So white, drift of what your focus on. When you present your clients, I'm sure they still expect you present a report of the traditional metric tonnes. We, we, we, we do twenty four shit stuff because we force us to after this conversation. We say to them, we want to measure sales, we, you know, we want to measure the donations like the thing like TV clients Nielsen ratings because that's your currency that you make money on, like, we want to measure the thing. The problem is ninety nine percent of our clients. Do not put us in a position to measure the thing. Which gets me into, like, why does anybody wanna to measure the thing? Right. Like, like, I think nobody wants to be held accountable. I think one of the great things about corporate America and agency landscape that I didn't understand was I used to be mad at everybody mad that you didn't care enough to do the right thing. Then what I realize I can't be mad at you. The game is structured in a way that people are playing within it because you've mortgages and the family like you're just you're making decisions, not on what you believe you're making decisions on. What is palpable and acceptable with an ecosystem that's created. I get it. I'm more pathetic to it. Here's the punchline, though, if you're doing something to grow within an organization or not rock, the boat and have stability. It doesn't mean what you're doing is right. It just means it's right for you within the context of game that you chose in that human Boehner abilities, enormous amounts of business opportunity. I plan to exploit that. So in terms of that, like you have these conversations with people just don't want to change, right? So how do you make people change? You don't do you don't I could care less up. Anybody changes as a matter of fact, I prefer that nobody changes because when I get to the second part of this, it'll give me more time to do my thing. So I just want to be historically, correct. And I want to inspire some people that just need a little tip to do the right thing. And I want to look back at these videos and be like fuck your smart. And, and I just want to just like just I mean eventually see what's interesting for me is, there's a whole next generation of people and this is going to create business opportunities. I'm right. And everybody knows it because you're right. You know, I'm not a Jesus. I'm just in a situation where I'm allowed to talk about it in a way that's different than a lot of people. Everybody knows you. Live your life, one way and then put you put on your clothes that you wear to work, your jersey and you act totally different because you play with. In the context of what's acceptable. You don't believe in the shit, you're selling. And I don't mean all of you like portion of you. I just I just genuinely believe that, you know why, because at three o'clock in the morning can after a bottle of Rosie you will tell me. So I don't know. Like it's interesting and this happens everywhere, like I yellow kids to not take b c money, because these are giving you advice because they just need one home run. And they're gonna drive all the rest of you into the ground to over extend your business because for their business, they just need one. So, like, I think you have to understand the seed, right like most of the agencies in this room. And in the market are part of holding companies that are publicly traded companies, which means they have to basically play a ninety day. You know, Wall Street dynamics which that's what maps their behavior. There's no HR talk. You know, like, but for me, there's HR talk, I spend all my time on HR comma on the CEO, because I'm building something for the rest of my life, and I mean these people, so I have to care about them, so it has nothing to do with, like anything. Other than if you understand the north star, and you can reverse engineer it that is where all the clue answers are than Devi picture of how Vader media looks. I mean you call you. To see you. What does he Amina bainer? And who do you surround yourself with that, perhaps, sure, as you know, like it's different than the current may be structure of other companies here? No, I think we have a lot of similar structures. I think the only differences that Claude silver, my cheap, heart officers, the number two person in the company, and that my CFO Scott has no say, right? So, like we're not financially driven. Right. We're not finance driven. So that's probably the only subtle difference. We looked like everybody else. I've tried because I had blind at night. He buys, I did a lot of different things. But there's a lot of tried and true in the way you should be structured. I think I think the thing that the one thing that my leads. No is, I don't want nobody's incentivize to grow business. So one thing that's weird about us as a lot of people come from all these great shops, and they think they need to grow the piano, because they'll get a bonus and that's good for them. So I have eliminated that because I want our team to play well in the sandbox with other partners because that's the right thing for the client and the only way you can really do that. If you create the infant. Picture for that. Because if you incentivize them around dollars, we're going to fight for dollars. Right. So the only thing they have to do is historically, correct. Like to me, people going to move brands this, and that, like a lot more people give us business today, by the things they thought we were stupid about three years ago and now they believe in right, people don't forget. So I don't need to win the scope. I need to make sure that everybody understands where we stand on how it plays out and what's in the best interest to sell the product. So those are the things that are different. But otherwise, I don't know. We have a credit department countless strategy sites. Analytics, it's the same shit. Well, if you had to add a new division or expand into certain way, what would you do? Next unlimited resources. What are you doing? Next fully. I think we do that. I'm losing all sorts of money investing in, you know, message Bod infrastructure. We have bainer smart, the smart affiliation stuff like I'm again building it for myself, thus on losing on my PNL every day with departments that don't return because the clients don't want it yet to me. I'm always building for something that's twelve twenty four months ahead of time. I don't think you should build anything for five years out. I think that lacks practicality I think if you see the world in a twelve or eighteen month window, and you can go there that feels real. And that's what I've kind of tried to rinse and repeat so we do a lot of that we invested in vertical video people to three years ago because we saw that playing out and that's worked out for us because the market is moved more in that direction we, we we invested in. Seventy. What I would call new digital paid media people who probably believe more in feed dynamics of social networks than programmatic banner buying or things of that nature. And that's working out for us. So I think you know, I'm not even unlimited budgets. What I think I'm doing now, which is if I believe anything is meaningful to sell something or communicates something, we will invest it immediately. We have we've analysts and strategists who spend time on analyzing musically a year ago. You know. And so that's just kind of how we go also what increase that you guys have offices in multiple places. Do you want to grow your physical presence anytime soon? He so we've been office in New York, LA, San Francisco, Chattanooga Tennessee in London. So I'll speak about Chattanooga Tennessee in London. Chattanooga is one of probably five to seven more offices that I will build in cities, that are not New York, LA, San Francisco, and Boston. There's another part of America. I don't know if you've heard, and there's a lot. Lot of it. And so I wanna have offices there because if I buy a brand that mainly sells in middle America at Dollar General having footprint in these markets for a decade is going to be smart. Same thing with London and Asia and other places. We will expand I'm only I'm very single minded. I'm gonna buy brands that are underpriced because big holding companies are not supporting great brands because they don't have the money for it. They're only supporting top by brands. They're going to sell it to me for a nickel on the dollar. I'm going to buy it. I'm going to refurbish it into the twenty twenty two world for whatever that is. And I'm going to run it through my machine with the people that have been with me for fifteen years because we give shit about them, and then we're going to build the fuck out of it flip it by the New York Jets when Super Bowls. Do you see yourself that it's keeping bainer media like as it is? You know, when you buy the jets Intermedia still going to be around. That's something I didn't see which I hate talking about. I thought I thought I would build like one hundred person shop it'd be great. We'd buy a brand, you know, I take forty people over to it. I would help the other sixty get jobs or put them in my other investments, like really take care of the crew move on my merry way. What ended up happening is look, we've gone from thirty to seven hundred fifty people in four years, five years, like there's going to be a lot more people than I anticipated when the brand comes. So now I've struck. Obstruct in a bunch of books. I've started writing one called the by accident billion dollar company, and it's really the chronicles of building bainer and why did it? And what happened? And why did I, I was able to build a big big, big business really fast because our interests are aligned with our client, like it's like it's just it's always things. It's always the tippy top. Right. Like everything that's broken Intermedia media, my fault. Everything is about the top. So. Now I realize, oh shit. I'm going to have a holding company of brands, but in parallel also going to have banner media. I'm gonna take the top talent each year and graduate them into the brands that I own, but to enter things are going to happen one, I think I'm going to be able to get the best talent in the world into bainer, because if the word on the street is if you go work at bainer, and you crush it that you can then go and work on Hershey's kisses, or what or kids and get a piece of the action and be lots and lots of money that's going to bring unbelievable talent. And to when I go pitch for new business vein media instead of saying, like, here's our sizzle reel or capes. I'm going to be like, hey four and a half years ago, we bought Snickers it was doing two hundred thirty seven million in revenue. Now it's doing eight point seven billion because of what we did. That's our pitch motherfucker. Yeah. He committed someone to work at beta I don't think to me, too. I don't think so. I think like look everybody here knows that, that works in it, like, and they and they respected, and I respect that I'm not mad at a holding company. They're not. You know what are they like it's not nonprofit world. It just you have to be smart about why things do what they do. And I think that I'm excited to create a new model in the Seco system, because one thing I have done is fallen in love with the DNA of the people within it storytellers. These are sales people these, this is cool. This is what I am. I didn't realize it, but this is what I am too. Little bit of a different version of it, but pretty much what I am. And so I think the machines that have been put in place, aren't great for the people, and I think that it's I'm not going to be able to employ everybody, what I'm gonna do is be ridiculously successful and inspire Sally to go and build it, too, and create new alternatives. We have about five minutes left. So I wanted to open up to audience cue in. Yeah. So. It firing any questions. Anyone they went here questions. Awesome. You said you don't incentivize people for new business. How do you go about new business? Do you find that people are coming to you because they know you to you get involved in pitches? How do you go about growing both of those things? And then the other thing that I didn't know because I wasn't from the industry is, when you do really good work. And people believe in you, and they go move to other companies, you get them, right? So a lot of becomes from my personal brand equity like I'm not building the Gary v shit for just my ego. And so we get that. But at this point, we're at such massive scale, you know, whether it's the G work or Pepsi work, or, or the Toyota work or the, you know, we're, we're out, we're doing a lot of business and a lot of people are moving, and we're just winning word of mouth again. I'm telling you, as cool as I am I go to the sales meeting. I'm a great salesman. It's the only thing that matters is the steak, not the sizzle the sizzles the gateway drug to the steak. And, and that's. Why we're growing. What percentage of what my friend? Of incentive compensation. Like, like, if we grow this business. They'll kick us back dollars zero. And by the way, I'd love to do all of it, that way, the problem is these CFO's cure in corporate America think I'm an idiot. Yeah. Like the incentive plans are ludicrous. And by the way, I would take it, but nobody's we're not big enough yet or like real enough yet, for corporate America for the to really let me control everything, not going to be at the mercy of like digitize media plan, I have after run. That's not a dig a digital first thing. That's it's just I need to be if I'm going to be if like I'm like on the on the line. I need to control everything then it's real. Right. So zero so far, though, it's kind of weirdly, what I thought it was going to do you know stinks. But I think I'm gonna play the ultimate version of that when I write a check for eight million dollars. Right to buy pop rockets, like, it's, it's going to it's going to that's the ultimate putting your money where your mouth is. And that's what I came from. That's what I'm actually way more comfortable with all this politicking worship. Hi, I'm behind the pillar step forward. That's awesome house. You. Since you said you want to serve the people in this room. They just heard about a half an hour ago that they're the most depressed people in the agency. I'm sorry. They just heard. They're the most depressed group of people who these people because the agency world because they're strategists. Oh, what do you say to them? I mean, what's, what do you say to help, you know, I probably can't, you know, one thing that I've really enjoyed about me, getting more comfortable, my own skin is I, I like saying, I don't know more than I used to. I'm not sure to fully answer that. I'll tell you. I'm a weird guy that asked that this, how this is going to come off, but I was really against having a strategy department because I was like, why would I hire people to just be account like and just be management? I need people to think what you guys know what I've learned is not everybody can do both. I've come to learn that, you know, I don't I don't know why they're the most depressed from what I've learned. And this is this is great. You might enjoy this because this is really coming from left field. And I don't have a lot of good. Data on this other than my own experiences. I think you guys are being held on a pedestal in most places right? Like, like I when I look at a lot of places that I've, like I'm like, I'm so surprised at like nobody talks until the strategists talks things of that nature. I also think maybe the lovely lead with the camouflage shake your hand, and I was, like, I was like, okay, then maybe she means like to me, it's crazy that the creep, like in a creative shop, the creative is the most powerful in a world where this is all subjective until it hits the market, you know. You know. So I don't know the context of y the market would think strategists are the most depressed is it because strategists are similar to see him os, which is they have say, but not the ultimate say and people fuck up their thoughts in execution. I'm not sure but but here. You know, maybe so, but here's what I'm going to say. But here's but then freedoms are going to talk about how the media plan fucked them up and this like everybody's. Everybody's fucking crying like like every pissing is crying if this was a fucking creative, they would say that, like everybody's crying, I think people need to stop crying that we need to, I think, people, I think people need to start understanding how much of this is subjective, by the way, the agency, big brand world. Everything happens up front, all the fighting, and the jockeying and the work and the debating all the should happen up front guys. We live in two thousand seventeen this whole needs to happen after it hits the market. I mean, this whole thing is so fucked up. It's built for television. It's not nineteen Eighty-six. Sorry, go read what happened in the late fifties and early sixties mid fifties early. Sixties on the transition of radio. To television. That's what we're living through. And then you will start making very different decisions in your career and probably in your strategy meetings. Are you probably have time for one more yet? Let's do it. Hang, gary. How are you? Good. Thank you. Great. So I'm an immigrant, too, and I totally support your ambitions, and I believe you'll by the jets. I love and I'll be the one cheering you on. Thank you. But I'm just curious how you see America has changed for you to execute those ambitions from when you were child till now that's a great question. I think not a whole lot. I mean that I think what imigrants specially Soviet immigrants that fully come from communism understand, is they're starting things that are worse. There's certain things that are better. You know, it's a bald, but, like I always deal in alternatives, like, here's what I know in the last eight years, twelve years, actually less, twelve years. I've had friends both sides of the aisle who told me if this person wins, they're moving to Canada. Right. And Bush gets reelected. I'm moving to Canada. If Obama gets reelected moving to Canada, so far, nobody's fucking moved to Canada. So, you know, I don't I for me ever think for a pure bred entrepreneur to ever think the president of the United States has any impact on her or his ability to execute in this game. They're fucking loser. So I don't I don't think it's changed at I think there's a lot of different dynamics. And I think if you really, really, really want to look at it in a macro level, you know what I'm most thankful for that. Even for all the horse shit, we have around gender and minority or things of that nature. My daughter is in a better position to execute than she would have been if she was my age. It gets better. I don't give a fuck what the world tries to tell you of how bad it is. Because that's what drives Nielsen ratings on mainstream media. It's fucking good. It's good. Like the problem is, we are sold. The one percent that's bad every single day twenty four seven three sixty five. So I think it's great super opportunity. I picked up the perfect not Donna. I'm opportunity point. Hey guys, a hope you really enjoyed this episode of the Gary v experience. Now go out and share this pass it on. Let me know what you thought.

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