RTAB #110: Joe Banner


Contracts, salary caps. Why do I were favorite teams make some of the moves they do. It's usually the money. It's time for the business of sports with Andrew Brandt. Hey, there, boys and girls welcome to another dish in of the business of sports with Andrew brand. It's brought to you by bet online dot AG. Football season is here as you know, as we're talking about where can you make your online wagers for NFL in college, the best places bet online dot AG you can go there. Take full advantage of the best bonuses in the business. The promo code podcast, one all caps peo- d. c. a. s. t. o. n. e. and you get a fifty percent sign a bonus rag. When you sign up bet online that AG your online sportsbook experts. Now, this week's edition of the businesses sports with Joe banner, my old friend, he is run the eagles for many years and was president of the Browns when they had a player named Josh Gordon, he'll talk about him from an inside. Look, what happened with Josh Gordon at the Browns. We know he's now patriot, Joe will get into all that we talk about issues around the league that can Leo max situation how the raiders screwed that up. Talk about issues with Carson Wentz getting back into the NF. NFL how long you wait for those kind of things officiating league business all would Joe banner, former president of the Philadelphia Eagles in the Cleveland Browns. And now the businesses sports, which Obana. Joe get right into it. Josh Gordon was there when you were running the Cleveland Browns, tell us what you can tell us about him now released from the Browns. I'm sorry traded to the patriots. And my reaction was the talent just is too much temptation for teams even the patriots to turn down knowing all these issues surprised that Cleveland stayed with Josh Gordon, this long, and that the patriots are now taking their chances with them. So I am surprised. They stay that long. Although, as you stay well, he is an elite talent, and that gives people a lot more. Time and potential mistakes before people want to give up with them. But you know, he came to them, people forget. He came to them with a very challenging history. And now he's been at least six years. And outside of the one year that I was there, which he put fourteen games and said, serious significant problems of dramatically affected his ability to show his ability a sense. So I am surprised not surprised the Browns getting some time. I'm surprised they gave him as much time as they did, and I'm really surprised by the page. I mean, I guess I was naive and I respect the patriots have culture. They found certain players that have thrived in their system that haven't thrived other places, but I'm not revealing. It hit Justice. Now after a long time of denying been quite open about the fact that he has substance abuse problems both with drugs and alcohol and easy gone through the list publicly. I mean, they're not just some people say, it's just, we'd everybody, you know, we'd, but the big deal, but he's now knowledged publicly that his issues go well beyond we'd. So I have not seen the patriots. They've taken guys that are challenging guys that have thrived at least I'm not aware of and taking a chance on a guy that has this long history of problem that includes significant drug abuse. So I'm I am surprised on both ends of us. You mentioned the year you're you with him. He played fourteen games and I'm inferring by your answer. That's that's the most he's played. What'd you see talent wise. And what were your. You know, in managing that situation, and I know you have to be true to confidentiality about some of his issues, but from a from a management point of view, running the team. How did you manage it? So you know, we, we did have the one year that we were there in which he succeeded in playing playing very well, and frankly, avoiding any positive tests, rest ascensions. Any other things he's dealt with? We did that really. We hired a psychologist and a psychiatrist to work with the team. Although truthfully are only a couple of plays, they working with. Josh was one of them and you know, we made it through the years the way I wanna say it. It may have appeared from the outside, like everything was going fine, and he was playing great. And I do think he did a lot better in that year. Then he has any other year in terms of behavior and his play. But you know, again, he's gone public with this. I have enough going to talk about testing and all that kind of stuff, but I still have a little freedom. He's acknowledged he, you know, has very significant challenges and in his off field life and. I have reason to question that he's conquered those problems. Talent wise, what everybody sees when people talk about, you know, a healthy cleaner, hardworking, Josh Gordon would be the top three, five, seven. You pick the number clearly in the very, very top group of wide receivers in the league in an unusual way. By the way, he's not a great route runner. He doesn't get himself open very well, but he's so big and strong and powerful. And when clear headed and concentrating phenomenal hands, catching the ball, you know what they call fifty fifty balls, exceptional at that kind of stuff. Most of the guys that are really great receivers are good runners, and some of them are also really big, Josh is not a great route runner, but he's unbelievably effective because he's just so strong. He can dominate anybody physically. You talked about psychologists, psychiatrists working with a few players, I guess, primarily him, did you know? I know there are people listening, the do have addiction issues. Did you look at this as. We can't control this. We just have to manage it or we think we can exercise these demons. So remember I'm in the second year that Josh is in the league which five years ago now. And at that point we still had hope that we could not just manage him but actually get him to a better place. And in the year that I was there, that was our goal. It wasn't just to keep them on the field is actually trying to work with him to make some life changing changes, and you know, focuses and priorities, and frankly, people he surrounded himself with and all the kind of classic stuff you hear about. I think by now it's five years later. That's a real stretch to think that's going to happen. It's not hopeless. But I think the chances are a lot less that he could make that big a transformation, and maybe it was five years ago and maybe we even kidding ourselves five years ago, but our intent and what we brought people in to try to help with was really potentially life changing type of changes that he would make an his life that hopefully would have raced all the stuff that's happened since then. Yeah. And as always, say, greater talent, greater tolerance, even tolerance for that level of talent ran out in Cleveland. When you saw John Dorsey statement, you know, you know, John is I do so well on Saturday evening. I believe that you know their patients had run out there moving away from Josh. Did you see that as an invitation to teams to to make trade offers, or did you see they're releasing? It's funny when I, I thought I was actually on the phone with somebody who works for an NFL team. And my first reaction was, what are they announcing their wait until Monday for? Why don't they just do it. And it seemed like part of the motive there was to send the message to people there. You know, listen, we're gonna do our best as you say, the more talent, the more patients. But at some point we've really just we trying to change the culture. So I my first reaction what they were trying to really make that statement that I thought statements even more powerfully just say, that's it. We're done, you're out of here, but fairly quickly I thought about, I said, wow, I wonder if they think that they can actually get some value for the guy. And I still thought that they no chance of eating anything other than a contingent pick. There is some contingency in the trade, but in any circumstance, they get a pick. How are my initial reaction was you know the opposite of what they did, and it turns out that what they did had merit. I've talked to enough people that I still don't believe that eight or ten teams call, but I do think they had three or four and you know, they were able to to make a deal and get a firm pick for. A risk or listen, Josh couldn't go too many teams because I really characterize this kind of high risk high return. And as you seen most teams, no matter how solid you either is some cultural risks to bringing guy in, has these kind of problems and sending a message that you're willing to kind of put up with this stuff. But the patriots culture is so solid and so strong. The truth is probably has very minimal risk to them. Whereas even if things went, well, whoever else had done this actually would have been going into a my mind with high risk. I return, they actually may be very low risk high return, which probably puts them in a unique position to do it if they're willing to take the risk which again is my viewing of them, historically is a very unusual risk for them to take it's different than just taking troubled player or someone with a lot of talent that didn't succeed somewhere else. The nature of Josh's problems are, you know, much longer term and much deeper. And again, I'm just saying it that way because he's acknowledged public himself. Then I think the general public is even recognizing this point. I'm glad you said that too, because I see a narrative about, well, the patriots they've taken on Corey Dillon and Albert Hanes worth, and even Randy mom on and then and Chad Johnson. This is a different kettle of fish, isn't it? Totally totally, totally different. And those guys, listen, those guys that you're referencing there benefited greatly and definitely have more success and conform to assist them like they hadn't other places and the patriots deserve a lot of credit for that. And frankly, it gives them a competitive advantage to be able to take a chance here and there on guys like that, but they have a coaching system and coaching staff and culture that can deal with it. But those names you all just mentioned are very different nature. The nature of the problem, the history of the problem. I mean, listen, you heard it and it's been kind of luted too. But I mean the the strato broke the camel's back to last. Warning in Cleveland. That addition to kinda his behavior was he was late and the keyword is again everything we know about somebody with a drug addiction problem is things like punctuality responsible are fleeting and everything we know about Bill fella chicken, the patriots is there you know, basic responsibility of being in the right place at the right time for the right meetings and knowing the plays is not something they're going to put up with for any period of time at all. So Justice can have to change very dramatically very quickly. Or this could be a very short term situation. But as you said, it's a solid fifth, I mean, when I saw that come out like you like you thought I said, all right, they can get a contingent, seventh, but then tells you there was competition. Somebody offered seven, somebody, six, maybe even higher than a fifth, but it gets to bidding situation and they did get assault pick. So he flames out. It's not like that pick goes away. Right, right. Nope, they, they get the Browns. Get that as I understand the tray that fifth pick, no matter what you know does flame out. They get back seventh pick which reduces the value of the fifth slightly, but they the benefit they get into the trade is either a pure fifth or a fifth, offset slightly by a seventh and listen as you know, you've done this much as I have, who knows what they had. They were able to create the perception right. There was competition and other bidders. I know for sure there are other inquiries. Now, whether there were other bidders or not, or whether they would just success in trading the perception. Or other bidders. Nobody's probably ever going to tell us, but you can create the leverage just by creating the perception that you're bidding against other people, and whether that's what happened here, not we'll probably never know. But yeah, I mean, it did seem a little choreographed. Obviously, we talked about one just release them Saturday will it came out after the waivers on Saturday, which ended four o'clock. And you know soon after that we had all the national reporters saying, there's a market whether there was or not as as you and I know evidently it was enough to to get it spurred for for Monday trade. Yeah. Well, we know there was a market. We don't know how many teams we don't what the other bidders bid. If anything, we know there was a market because he got traded. And again, I myself can tell you I've spoken to other teams that have told me not a whole bunch. I don't think it's as many as what's being reported, but there were other teams that told me that in fact, they called the Browns and looked into it. I, frankly, I had a couple of people call me and ask me, you know what I thought. And when people do that, I try not to give an opinion. I just described what I know let them make the decision. So I know that what other teams looking into it. I don't know if anybody else made a bid or what the patriots were competing against, but give credit to the Browns. They managed, you know, get value where many thought they wasn't any. I mean, I've been reported to, I mean, we had a trade for Josh in the year. He was there that you know has been reported many times which we had an offer for a second round draft, pick plus a player, not a great player, but it contributing player. And the reason we. Did that wasn't because we had given up hope on him getting on track wasn't because we didn't realize how great he was. It was because I couldn't see situation which you could trust him for the long run. You know, how do you, how do you build your team for the next year? If you're not sure if he's going to still be there, how do you consider resigning him if you knowing it any moment? He could be in serious trouble and you have nothing to show for the investment you made. So we, we wanted to convert it into something we could count on and what happened. Even at that point, we were very worried about whether we would ever be able to count on that long term. And what happened with that proposed trade. Well, we had some people in building without naming any names. Just were consumed by the talent and the possibility, and decided that the not making a trade was the better decision at the time. Yeah, a talented, something the NFL I guess all. 'cause he was he had a long history and we received that offer that people. Now it's from the forty Niners and when Jim Harbaugh was still there and they were competing for what they thought was a reasonable chance to win a Super Bowl. And you know, so the the possibility of getting somebody even short term that could make that kind of a difference was appealing to that. But meantime, they went through five years of challenges and difficulties and no real playing time and got a fifth pick instead of a second pick. 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Slash brand now back to Joe banner in the business of sports when a go round the legal little bit as you and I do has his regular visits to the podcast on the business, the NFL, which is the busiest time to me is right before the season starts. We saw some major activity. I know you were very vocal on Twitter about the Khalil Mack trade. I gotta admit, I didn't think it would happen. I thought the raiders would wait amount in each show up because they're never be our trade with mega-contract combined for what they're wanting in boy, was I wrong, so so they, they got the two number ones and the Chicago went all in not only on the number ones. But on the contract, how did you see that? And is there any defense in your mind for the way the rent raiders handled that. While the second part is easy. I took the raiders just made a terrible mistake. They didn't have to give up the two all they had to do is agree to contract. If you take the eighteen nineteen twenty million dollar defensive lineman that have signed over the last three or four years and just updated a bit for the increase in the cap. The contract came out about where it should have been. I mean, it should have been a twenty two twenty three million dollar deal for Donald for MAC for the, you know, top top couple of, you know, these are defensive player of the year type of players. So for me, the rate has made a huge mistake. They were smart to pick him. They hit a grand slam on the pick, and they should have found a way to get the deal even if they had overpay them a little bit. I mean, I don't know what they thought. You know, von Miller had received nineteen plus just a little over nineteen million three years ago, the Kappa gone up thirty five million dollars since his deal, almost twenty percent. No. If you just add twenty. Eighty percent of the nineteen million. All you're doing is give him the same value based on the higher capital comes out between twenty two and twenty three. So I really can't understand what the raiders thinking was currently negotiations way back in February and then no, no conversations after that. I don't understand that either. I mean, you got that kind of a play. I'm sure you did. You have kind of an ongoing dialogue. You're trying to keep things in place when not always easy to do not always successful, but that's what you're working. They go six months without talking. I don't get it. I think that the bears getting back a second round, pick a huge piece of justifying the value to me know and, and here's how I look at it. Research tells you that even if you're a hall of fame, general manager only hidden at about fifty percent of your first round picks. So you give up two first round picks. You probably gave up one quality player. The chances that you got one quality plays anywhere near as good as Maca Costa zero. Now as you would. I both know there's also the benefit of the difference in the contract financing, potential cap them as well. And there's we're getting the second round. Pick back to me kind of makes it worth giving up the two ones which probably translates into giving up one very good player, but not as good as MAC and using up a whole bunch of extra capital versus draft picks. But now you're getting a second round. Pick back that has a forty percent chance of producing a solid starter versus a fifty percent chance in the first round. So when I first heard the two ones, plus some other picks, I was like, okay, maybe I would have done that, but that's pretty aggressive. When I actually heard the detailed if they got the second round, pick back, I thought, you know what I would have done this in a second for me that tipped the scales from a really tough decision into something that I felt competent. I've been in the same position, had chance, MC San deal. I would have done it if I were Chicago. Only thing I questioned for Chicago is they're not already made team, right? They've young quarterback young team, and I don't know. I mean, I seems like he's the kind of player require acquire to be that missing piece with a contending team bears are better. Don't get me wrong, but they're not contending with the Vikings and Packers. So here's the only thing I would say. And this gets caught up on the media sometimes and fans to, I think they're making a deal for the next five to six years. And if they're right about Trubisky which is a big question Mark and personally, I have some doubts about that, but they obviously believe in Trubisky. By the time, Trubisky is like in his third and fourth year in the league when if they're right about him, he should really becoming a difference making quarterback. He's the second pick on the draft. I mean mariota's the second pick in the draft once quarterbacks you should be getting if you're picking with the second pick of the draft a quarterback. So by the second or third year, MAC is there which is the third or fourth year that Trubisky has been in the league. You have a quality defense with an elite. I think hall of fame potential defensive player of the defense. Combined with a reasonably talented offense and what should be an emerging star quarterback. Now, if you missed them the quarterback, Matt, what else you do? You're going to be mediocre. So that's the the, the the bet that they've made and listen if they end up wrong about Trubisky. There's still going to be a group of the Bridgewater tyrod Taylor type of people out there that you know better than some of the quarterbacks will one with fan, nominal defenses and just pretty good offenses go again, time will tell, but that's how I would have rationalized in my head, if I got the quarterback wrong, I'm in deep trouble no matter what. And if I got the quarterback right in two or three years, this could be the guy that makes me an elite team versus a good team. That's why would have been thinking about it? Yeah, I looked at spending to obviously we know this having quarterback on rookie deal. Even at the top of the draft six, seven million a year average is such a bargain allows you to allocate resources so many what they are spending the bears seventy six million dollars this year on three players, not quarterbacks. Alan Robinson KENDALL fuller and MAC. He just can't do that. If you're paying a quarterback twenty five million dollars, you just can't do that. That would be over one hundred million. So it's interesting how they had a huge spending on three or four players. I'm not even talking about the tight end Burton too. So interesting strategy. And what they need to do is by the time they get to this, you know, two or three years into MAC time in Chicago. They won't be able to have all three of those guys or if they do, they've got like a year left. So what they need to do is whether it's through primarily the draft is the main way they can solve this problem. They've gotta be finding guys that can step into those roles that are going to be less expensive. Yeah. Now we're talking about once they have to assume Trubisky has been and what they have to start to pay. If true Bisky isn't good. Are they have an inexpensive quarterbacks list whether it's the draft or what's to say, Bridgewater type of person, they could actually perpetuate this for fairly long time. I mean, look at the just won the Super Bowl. It's not like they don't have any expensive players, but because the quarterback is so inexpensive, as you said, they can distribute that money through the rest of the roster for the time being and you know really created an advantage. So this is timing question. By the time they get to the point where they need to pay Trubisky. They won't be able to have three guys making seventy eighty million dollars not even including the quarterback. Right. Quickly on the eagles. You mention them. Where you and I aren't doctors, but t me ran here for so many years. The eagles has just made the move to wince surprised by too early to late, give them more time. Obviously they had the Super Bowl MVP plan on, you know, taken that position, but. I just your thoughts on the timing moving there in week three. He my only answer is philosophical one because we don't know the. Yeah, true status. What the doctors are saying is, you know that that some decisions you literally just deferred to the doctor, but I do think the right answer was. Be very careful on the conservative side. And no need to rush probably a quarterback for the next ten maybe fourteen fifteen years twenty three years old twenty four years old. So ever on the side of missing some games, it probably doesn't affect you this year in a negative way. So what if you got up to one and two or two and to start is still probably gonna make the playoffs. It's still probably going to win the division. You still even have a chance of having a buy a home field advantage, but don't do anything that takes the risk over the next ten or twelve years or expecting with the play for you. And my sense is they think that's what they've done now who get on the field. And we'll see in the doctor's obviously I just making educated guesses no way they can promise nothing can happen. But philosophically, if I were in the room, I'd be sitting there going if we think he can back by week one. Let's wait at least week three or four. If we think he should be back the week, three, let's wait at least five or six. I would have been doing for at least a couple of weeks, the extra safe. If I were there. Yeah, we'll find out remaining minutes with Joe banner got asked about levian bell. I've been vocal on Twitter. I don't get it. I've been an agent. I don't see sitting out to like save carries for the future. You and I run teams. I'm not looking at levian bell in two thousand nineteen saying I'm gonna panel lot more because he didn't play much in two thousand eighteen. I'm gonna say a year older. So eight hundred ninety five thousand a week. I just don't get it. Is there anything you see in this that I'm not missing? No, not in the math is is simple. That's why you just wonder if the player just being in a very headstrong stubborn or the agent not walk through the eye. He had a deal offered from the Steelers which included thirty three million dollars open. I two years of the deal during what she'd be twenty seven and twenty eight. Now, if he skips the first ten games, he's lost almost nine million dollars, right? He'd have to go out and get a deal in the first two years of the deal. Paid them forty, two million just to break even. And as you say, he's twenty nine at the end of the first two years instead of twenty eight and you and I can say categorically zero chance any running back is getting forty two million dollars over the first two years of any deal. And here we're talking about a player that's held up multiple times and been suspended multiple times. So this ver the options for him. Apparently in his mind where take the Steelers deal, which was light on the guarantees, but was actually pretty frontloaded. Right? But that was the best they were going to do. He had a choice, take that deal or do what he's doing. What he's doing makes no sense compared to the take the deal option, pure math. So I'm with you. I don't get it at all tickets the middle week, three. I've been wrong both weeks. I think he shows up is don't get it. This whole ten week thing to me is nonsense. I think he'll show of this weekend, but I've said the past two weeks last couple minutes, Joe quick impressions of weeks one and two in the NFL. What jumps out of you? The obvious things that fits Patrick Mahomes is something beyond those headlines that really jumps out these. The opening of the season this year. I'm gonna go to things one, positive, one, negative. I mean, yeah, it's not that long ago. That was a real worry that the league quality of play was going to go down because they weren't enough great quarterbacks coming along to replace the great quarterback. So we're aging. And as you watch some of these young guys that are playing quarterback in the league and you mentioned homeless, but he's, he's one of a group. It's really exciting to put that aside and know the quality of the game is is still in good hands as by far the most important position. The field the negative for me is I've been somebody who for years and years. It's been annoyed by people who over-focus on the officiating. Yeah. And even working for teams when the coach planes efficiently, you know what he meant. The ranch may get ten things wrong, but the likely that they get five hundred for you and five. But the other team and people that have been kind of officiating hurting the game. I've been Pooh poohing that for years and I hate to say, but I'm joining the club. I'm so. Frustrated by I worked in the league at twenty is I've been a fan of the game my whole life. I know the rulebook reasonably well, and I sit there. I don't even know what they're calling. Sometimes why they're calling it and rules are changing very fundamental things. I applaud the intense because most of the chains were around trying to make the game safer, but I don't think they're achieving the goal and they're lessening the game. So I've, I've recently become a convert to being really, really frustrated what I see on the officiating front and how it's impacting the play of the game and the joy of watching. Again. Where you are you just referring to the quarterback stuff or or you know, protecting and, and these, the clay Matthews, these ridiculous penalties hitting the quarterback more more generally. Yeah, both the quarterback is certainly conspicuous and we just came through math of impact of. I just don't even have a league as defending the call. But anyway, but I'm also, you know, the lowering the head rule. I mean, it's still happening. They just decided to stop calling it after the preseason games, and you know, running back to doing it almost every play, at least there's a group of running backs do it almost every play. I just think they decided, listen, we don't want to be humiliated by undoing the rule. We just put in place, but let's just call it virtually never and only in the most extreme extreme infants because it's still happening a lot, but suddenly they just stopped calling it. So it's, it's, it's things like that. I mean, the interference calls. You know, there was always a great tough call, but I feel like this warm. More kind of weight. They just barely touched each other. How could you tell offense or defense and this flags at creating, you know, forty yard penalties. I, it's, it's. Looking at it more negativity from somebody that was actually annoyed by the people who are so focused on the officiating actually joining the group it's you are. So we out of time, but this was great as always you're ominously. One of my repeat guests regular on the business sports podcasts always love our chats. Thanks for being with me that lead to thanks very much great stuff as always from regular guests on the business sports podcast. My good friend, Joe banner, former president of the eagles in the Browns, get great insights in Josh Gordon and all things NFL. Now I'm gonna get to listener questions before I do. Let's hear word from Lincoln talent solutions. This is really important, Lincoln. You don't know not necessarily for job hires that they are really valuable for that. You can find the personal help grow your business with Lincoln because the right hire is so important makes a huge impact on your business. Lincoln jobs, they match people your role based on Moore who they are there skills interests. Even how open they are to new opportunities. Your job get seen by the right people. You know, listen, I was surprised to see this. Most linked in members haven't visited job boards, but nine out of ten members are are open new opportunities and you can only reach him through linked in. That's why new hires made every ten seconds using Lincoln and businesses ranked Lincoln forty percent higher than those regular job boards. So go to Lincoln dot com. Slash b. o. s. businesses sports, Lincoln dot com. Slash b. o. s. all caps, you'll get fifty dollars off your first job post. Just by going there with b. o. s. Lincoln dot com. Slash b. o. s. terms and conditions do apply. Now it's time for listener questions on the business of sports with Andrew Branagh answer questions sentiment. Google voice number is for eight four, four one six five six five four, four eight four, four one six, five, six, five, four. I'll answer questions. Patrick thinking of the right there, you know, tagging, Kirk cousins, multiple years in a row and what that does to their business over all. And you know the fan base, you see this, you know the their first time opener, their fifty thousand people there as a life on Redskin fan. I'm thirty years old. I've felt more apathetic about fifteen than I have ever and I think it's because of the three years of uncertainty of tags. And you know, I think it's something that probably negatively impacted the franchise in terms of their fan base and by something that hasn't really been seen the NFL. I just wonder if other people try to go through it with their player, you know, would that negatively impact their actual overall business and go your work? So keep up. Keep it up. Great question and listen, you're speaking to the choir here. I was born and raised in Washington. DC went to games from an early age has Redskin fan all the old RFK stadium before the one they're now playing in Landover. I'm actually going this weekend to see my old Packers play the Redskins down there. So huge fan growing up. I lost that phantom along the way. It's interesting with cousins because what they've done is really made him the most leverage player in recent memory in sports in the sport of football because they gave him these offers before the franchise tag that weren't really offers. They knew Bruce sounds of former agent. He knew those were not deals that Kirk cousins was gonna take any didn't take him. So they rented him for two years. Forty, four million dollars twenty. The first year twenty four. The second year was a good deal for them. Well, they didn't have to sock in sixty million guarantees, but probably not because they were just treading water. Kirk cousins was a player. They liked a lot of player. They didn't love. So what they did was make these kind of offers, maybe we can get him. Take it rather than offers that, you know, they know he would take. I think it set them back because again, they're playing with lame duck situations at the most important position. Now they've really shown their hand. They let cousins go get Alex Smith. They think they're more advantaged position with Alex Smith than they were with Kirk cousins. You know, I don't know. They had so many empty seats against the colts. I don't think they'll have a lefty seats against the Packers such draw rarely come to Washington, but this is so unique to me. I grew up where you couldn't get near Redskins game. It was the ticket in town at galvanized an area that you know me now more than ever needs cow nizing so much fuller vacation, so much division the Redskins were and it sounds like they no longer Aric lease according to Patrick these sport league team. The important thing in sports in the DC, Maryland, Virginia area. It's funny as sad that that has changed. The cousins thing didn't help. Cousins was a lame duck. It seemed like the whole time they liked him. They didn't love him. And what was so Arana is they pick Robert Griffin to be the future of the franchise, and then they sorta throwaway pick in the fourth round. For cousins, cousins became the quarterback. Griffin was moved out. We all know that how that win. So hope that answers your question. Patrick, I feel your pain former Redskin fan, grew up die hard, and that has since changed. Let's go to Scott. I Andrew. My name is Scott quick question on the NFL scheduling. Do you ever foresee them scheduling games, fifteen to twenty minutes apart, much like March madness or games may start on the east coast like eleven AM. Second game, eleven twenty seven forty cetera. Maybe to increase your ship engagement, etcetera. P. think there could be some profits her teams. Thanks, Andrew, take their things. Got a great question. I think would what we're sort of stuck with at least now, and I don't know if it's going to change is kind of your fathers or even your grandfather's NFL in terms of scheduling in terms of the way the games are broadcast. I think that's got to change. I think it has to change first of all in terms of the time, the broadcast listen, I'm an older guy, and I still have trouble watching these games because of all the stoppages. It shouldn't take three plus hours to have an eleven minutes of action product. I think. Consumers are going to demand that I think that'd be shorter games. I think it's means more split-screen advertising, less savages, less breaks somehow they're able to do with revenues in soccer. I don't know why they can't do it in football, but that's just where we are. You bring up an interesting point about the staggered schedule to me. I think there's some reason which I'm really not sure of why all the games start at the same time, either one o'clock for lock or the night games to me, you would have more fan engagement with staggered times. For instance, we're in when I was in Green Bay. We started our early games at twelve when these coast, of course, that would be one why not start at one in Green Bay, there would be two on the east coast. So what and now you all these fantastic finishes coming the same time between four and four fifteen for twenty one have been tastic finish at four one, five, one, six, three at seven. And you know that to me is seems to be more fan engagement rather than. In less. Of course, the key defending gauge -ment now with legalized sports betting is just that there's gonna be more gambling. Who knows what these in game apps are going allow for. But that is really something to look at when you talk about what's going on. So I agree with you. I think it's a great question. I think staggered times make sense, and maybe with these new contract coming up in twenty twenty one which will include Amazon, which will include Twitter, which will include at least in the bidding process. Facebook, Google Yahoo had cetera will have more, I guess, less your father's NFL little more modern millennial, and that may include staggered time, Scott. Thanks for the question. Feel free to call in leave your message. I'll answer it on the podcast, four, eight, four, four one six, five, six, five, four, four, eight, four, four one, six, five, six, five, four final word from bed online that AG hosting their sports net challenge their picks of the week. They're locked the week. You talk about competition. The winner. This week was robbed, sister Nino. He picked off games correctly. He's the host. The rob has a podcast mostly time survivor contestant. He wanted to join the conversation on Twitter with hash tags, sports net challenge. 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