Michael Moore on Planet of the Humans
For folks who have heard there is a big news last couple of weeks Michael Moore's film. Planet of the humans which is directed by Jeff Gibbs was taken down off youtube despite a pretty enormous online audience it was. Really taken down over a technicality affair use technicality four seconds of footage, so it's really right in the middle of things a lot of things we've been talking about recently. Interest Censorship on the Internet. We're GONNA discuss that with with the with him now and Let's. Say about because we. He hasn't been terribly outspoken. Yet about the this move, so he's going to have a lot to say. I think this. Michael Moore Welcome to useful idiots. Thanks for coming back on. Thanks for having me well to respectful of your time, we we. We know we've got a lot of stuff. We wanted to get get to do so We really willing to talk about is what happened with planet of the humans, and especially. Obviously it's been taken down off Youtube. Can you talk a little bit about the Ark of the sort of campaign to get this movie suppressed, and how quickly that coalesced? With this film, it happened fairly quickly like within hours of us We made the decision to. Jefferson is e been working on this film for about ten years. and. We're going to release it this fall. In theaters? But I don't think I. Don't know that doesn't seem very hopeful right now. Maybe maybe it'll be okay, but we just decided. Why don't we just put it up on on my channel on Youtube make it free of charge. it's. We. Really don't feel like there's another six months to wait when it comes to. Dealing with climate. Catastrophe were in the middle. And search time has been lost over all these years. and. So we just made the decision to put it up. Now before it went through all the usual things that we do all of my films, we hire fact checkers people that are not on the crew, not part of the film. To Dry and tear the film apart. Show us, what's wrong. There's something wrong. Factually what we need to correct. It saw always vetted by on two different attorneys. I mean I'm I'm I'm a bit of a target so I'm? I go for thirty years now been very very careful while making sure every I is dotted, not cross. So this film went through that same process and and I haven't yet today. With all the element attacking it and really. I don't WanNa give them a whole lot of credit because the majority of people to read the comments on Youtube or whatever are very appreciative of the film that we were willing to speak some awful truths some things. That even were hard for us to say because a lot. We belong to a lot of these groups. You Know Jeff and I were part of the first Earth Day. That's how we. So we're this. We've been environmentalists. All our lives belong to the Sierra Club in the vast belong to a lot of these groups I'll get. It was very hard for us to. And, we wish that we didn't have to be in this position, but nobody was willing to ask the questions that we wanted to ask and not so much just pointing out as we do in the film. How sadly a lot of these groups and their leaders have gotten into bed with Wall Street Corporate America with just the wrong people in I think and I think some may have been well intended you know. They are not against capitalism. In the way that I am so I understand why a they believed some them that. Capitalism is a possible way out. Of the climate catastrophe. But I have learned in my lifetime. billionaires. Our friends. Get, be remind might run across a billionaire somewhere in your life was a good person at class, trader or a class trader. Yes, there are the case that'd be yeah. So so I don't I wanNA pay a completely broad brush stroke. Billionaires or generally? It was disheartening to jump into into ozzy myself over these years. that. that. There was a turn against. These big corporations that were causing the problem and toward. The term went toward. Let's talk to them or let's see if we convinced them. which okay you know. Koumba, it's a little naive. I think. The three of us are from Flint. Michigan. Okay, so maybe we should get that out of the way if you grow up Jeff and I were born there. We grew up there. we were in our senior year. We were in the same high school. Ozzy at age seventeen. He from Kalamazoo Michigan. He actually made a choice to move to play which we never understood, but. Nonetheless he was welcomed and he went to school there and went to A. General Motors University now called Kettering University Engineering School. So. We are all we because we are people of the hometown of what back in the day was the world's richest We learned at a very early age never. To Trust, these bastards. At they never had our good interests at heart. And has been shown in Flint. Over and over again throughout the years including the recent. Water? What do they call it the water crisis? the poisoning of mostly black people. In the city of Flint so we decided that we couldn't remain silent anymore. We had to ask these questions in the main question. Film asks, is this. Fifty years after the first day how we doing? Planet in better shape. Our our is it all worked out. The first few years. We passed the clean water act clean. Air Act. A lot of good things created the EPA lot of good things happen. At some point. Some of the leaders of these groups decided it was okay to start taking money. From foundations whose money came from oil and gas, fossil fuels and banks in fast food. The meat industry all in all these different things that contribute to our climate. Catastrophe! Start taking the money. They started causing with wall. Street with Goldman Sachs Bloomberg in the same way that he tried to buy all those mayors when he was going to run. For Office with all his contributions to the anti gun movement. You know given a ton of money to the Sierra Club into other organizations and. Has Tried to buy his way into that. That's not to say that he is a human being isn't care concerned about the environment. I'm sure he is I'm sure he hated seeing kids shot at school Mansi why he gave money to that. But generally the rich do not give their money without strings, and the mayors of those cities saw that when he was going to run for. President this year. The favorites will call them. Those stories have been done. We don't need to get into that today, but. Nonetheless. We felt that our our environmental movement had been taken over. By The bunny interests. And in that, we were not being as aggressive as we need to be. To save this planet. We are out of time bill mckibben. Himself told us a decade ago. We went past three fifty parts per million of carbon atmosphere. That was it. We couldn't try back. We're at four hundred seventeen million today. We're way beyond three fifty. It's it's such a you know. I hate to be the Debbie Downer. And I still do have my sense of humor somewhere in but I really. This is bad. This is really really really bad, and so we felt somebody should ask the question. Are we on the right path? Is it too late. What can we do? Jimmy Carter had the right idea forty years ago when he put solar panels on the roof of the White House, and then Reagan came in the next year and tore them off. We'd lost forty-one years. It's not nineteen seventy-nine any longer and. I think somebody needs to, and we do in the skull asks the question. Can we now solar panel? And windmill our way out of this. I don't know I don't think so. Clearly the film strives to start this discussion. Right about whether that's that's even possible, but right away from the reaction to the movie. It was clear that the the lines of criticism identified the film, Not Joses incorrect, but as misinformation as supportive of white supremacy or ECO fascist. And in other words. Almost immediately. Soviet arguments that were kind of throwing were designed to to provide a pretext for for removing it completely I mean what. Is that different from what you normally experience. When when the phone comes a yes, usually usually with the film Mike Roger Me, which was about general, motors and Flan for the combine when the NRA went after us or when George Bush in well really Karl Rove when after us with a Fahrenheit nine eleven. They didn't just like they knew that. In order to tell why you have to have a big colonel truth to the lie about me or the movie. They knew which is weird. The right I guess that's why the right has one more than we've won in these last fifty years why they have the supreme or why they have the majority of the governorships why they have the Senate. The White House I mean good analysts. They have it. They do this because they know how to lie. They know the full a lot of the people a lot of the time. To See this happen to this film. Where they both things. You just said this crazy ass insane. UNHINGED. Thing about this move. The movie is this. Listen had in his in the gone in there, and now they're the headline in the nation in this is really interesting how the would show for oil and gas the flack from. Yes meet the new flag for. Oil against I mean it's. It's like wow, okay, so dudes you know when you're. GonNa make up Shit. You gotta make it sound believable if I if I told Katie right now, Katie looked. There's a marshon behind you. Everybody and Everybody knows that's a lie. There is no kernel of truth that Martians have entered Pennsylvania. A location we can't disclose because the margins are looking for it, but but it doesn't work. It only works if it's got truth to it or some truth, a little tree. They didn't bother to do that. They just went off just. Crazy crazy defamatory. Statements and stuff and so generally my positions early when that happens, you just don't pay any attention to it. Because the only time I've had to put up with that, it's like from A. Media Rush, Limbaugh, or a you know kind of some kind of crazy making. What's that other guy on? L. L.. Now okay. Alex Jones said something about you guys tonight literally. Would you waste one minute responding to it? I mean it's like put it in the scrapbook. Short your Grand Castle you know it'll be. It'll be good laugh so the fact that they. the people. We're not talking about the the Echo. Lab People that run the ECO industrial. Complex Green capitalists people are generally on our side of the political issues. But because this film goes after it goes after the capitalism, that's part of the reason have failed. We, have failed to stop this climate catastrophe. And the nation, the nation doesn't WanNa they don't want you to look at the back cover of last week's magazine or the week before that or the week before that because it's a full page ad for Hedge Fund. You don't WanNa think when you think the nation you. You just want to think it's a bunch of legal. You know elderly liberal people on a cruise somewhere else to the ban on that twice by the way. Have you. Stand up. I went to descend up. They have asked me for twenty years and I'm thinking why would I ever go on? What about just the amount of pollution? Now they? wrote that they still do it. Should. They still do it right. Still do it because because as good as they are all the good things they do. Ultimately, they're part. Of the system that I'm not a part of. They are not from Flint. They are not of the working class. The US of course they take hedge fund money in. Just even even though same week that they go after me. With that headline, above in all my movers flagging for oil and gas. They have they have like literally seven days after we release our film? A public. I'll livestream conversation with the head of three fifty dot org. And begins with with Don Guten plan the editor of the nation. Saying well. This is really weird. I've never really began wife streaming like this before, but I'm. Required to say that today's livestream is brought to you by our sponsor. Dominy funds. He goes. For the rest of minute commercial for this Hedge Fund. That's sponsoring. This conversation with Bill mckibben and they've got the logo behind him with one of our most revered leaders of our environmental movement. You know we are going to anybody can do this. Just look into dominy funds and you'll see. I? Think. There was like sixty six companies that they invest in that are involved in in the very sings the logging and timber business biomass. They tried to pass off as we point out in the film as renewable energy, but to renew a tree. Takes fifty to one hundred years. But they try to pass. That offers renewable energy her so many lies about this. We wanted to show people best, and we knew we were going to get crap or because people have built their their identity their fame. They've sold books they've they've created a movement. They've created a religion in some cases around them, and and they had people like Al Gore in. It's like you know he won. It's. How is the Why don't go after Al Gore? The guys got he won the presidency and it and get the keys to the. Bone during the bone here. Come on. Bloomberg does good things where you're going after that Goldman Sachs Golden. The on the CEO Goldman Sachs. Is that the Oscars. Years ago. He came up to me and he said. Why are you always going after us? Doesn't your Goldman fucking sex? You drove a brinks truck right up over the curb in to our front doors, demanding that we give the money back. We paid all the money. Wasn't just that it was also a little time. You and the others have been find criminal activities that you gotta way would getting a civil fine in and and and I want money money for the people of this country from you. And it was, he said to me. This is what he said to me. He said home you'll. You should not go after US Democrats. You know we're the one big investment firm on Wall Street all right. When do we bring in the squid part of the company? That they said that. Sorry. About this without thinking of nats. Vampires good. Several article in a and framing of this issue. We're Democrats. Don't go after and unlike yeah, you're you, aren't you? Actually you were the number one contributor rather contributor to the on a Brock Obama two thousand eight campaign. I tried to pretend that wasn't I wasn't going to worry about that and within a month after after prison abundance election. Larry Summers Entity Geithner. Were put in charge of our economy, and that was the end the them. And so. They? They don't want me pointing this out. This is why they're angry at the film. This is why they have worked to get taken down from day. One they they sent e mails out to I've heard from dozens of people that got an email. From one of these people say work with me. We must take this film down it. It's dangerous film and we must. It must not be seen. That's what they're really afraid of NC. Here's what's happened. Because the film is its own best defense when people heard that, this is something they shouldn't see. They all they did was double and triple the viewership. Eight point three million people now have watched it. And and the response has been overwhelmingly positive from the people. that they had to do something to really stop this because they knew that. They had now driven more people to the film and on. That was really the wrong wrong thing for them to do. Now, though they were as you are, speaking, as were taping this, I don't know when you're actually going to air this but but We're as we're talking. We're indeed for getting into day five. Of Our film being banned on Youtube now, Youtube did not did not ban it what they did was they got a company. Company that is funded by the same people fund three fifty dot org to file a copyright claim on four seconds. Or second, that's amazing, the move or seconds. Because Youtube is so nervous and afraid of putting up anything that's copyrighted material because the studios who after them, the record companies you know, everybody will after them so now. They have this really stringent policy. That if you can prove. Something is you know it's not cleared is in the film. They'll shut it down well as I said we had lawyers go through this before we even put it up. We only use fair use copyright robbery Magellan's fair use. People can look it up if they don't go with that means, but it's and it's one of the few First Amendment protections. We have in our copyright laws. And also just to be out. It's traditionally long celebrated by progresses as an important tool in for creative for creative people for journalists at right, but anti-media conglomeration anti-corporate media, people wicky people who on these stuff to be free. They create yeah here. Because sometimes it's the only way you can show what's going on all my movies have this added. In night, nine eleven the footage at the beginning of the film with with. Don Rumsfeld and they're always looking the calm and. Rates brand all that stuff that was going on. Repressed memory triggered now. But You know that's fair. Use Copyrighted. That was shot by ABC. I didn't shoot it right over losses, says you can use thirty five seconds of that to make your point because they ate the First Amendment Supersedes that ABC's the actual owner of this, but otherwise we need be able to show things or have a conversation, so it's a protection for and yes. And lefties progressives. Tend to celebrate less of the instead what they decided to do was find somebody. Within their group, somebody who had received money on the same. Foundation Multibillion Dollar Fund. That also funds a three fifty dot org. And and got them to file this complaint with Youtube. And as soon as that happened it it. It automatically triggered whatever though your is the? Decisi things that Youtube and down it went and day five, and you go to my youtube channel to plan other humans at it's a black screen, and this is stunning to me in a free society in a democracy with First Amendment rights that our freedom of expression would be halted like. Let's say they have a client. Let's say the people that own the face levels. While then what is it? Can you tell us what it is by? Yes. Actually it's. It's the it's the four second. It's a very long montage of all the the minerals and the crap that has reigned dug up to build a solar. If. You haven't seen a really cool montage again. And and like myself and others before I saw this. I just assumed it was. Solar panels glass glass comes from sand. What's the problem? It's not that at all and so much. Fossil fuels are used in the building, these panels and windmills anyways four seconds. Is it shows? A A rare earth mining, rare earth minerals by their very by its title. Are Rare rare minerals and talk about. A natural resource that is extremely limited and will run out. So everybody who's thinking? We're going to get our solar panel or way to the twenty second century. We won't have these rare earth metals because there aren't. There are many of them. In fact, the personal got the footage at the go to China. Had the sneak into the mind to get those four seconds? So it's kind of it's A. It's an important for seconds for the point. We're trying to show that so much goes into the making of these panels all so I give them. Listen I know that there's. Know, there's probably a lot of money in a lot of energy and effort That's been behind these first four or five weeks trying to shut down the film they scared and bullied sites that were using it for free because we made it for free to anybody wanted put it up, so one site took it down because they were afraid of upsetting the people. Of this movement. And the people that we're doing our livestream. We were going to a livestream every week. They got bullied and so we got shut down there, so we'd had the live streams because of of their attacks, and they're going after the people that that offered to help us get the word out to people, and it's been so much of that and the slander in the kind of just made up crap. That they set about the film. And every time we read, though it's misinformation, or it's old footage, or it's like first of all the first thing is if you're a documentary filmmaker to accuse Hughes us of using old footage. Is. The same as calling it a documentary because this story is a fifty year old story. Yeah, there's a lot of old footage in the film, but but they tried to use that and then say that means the data. Is the the data not old you get tenure journey to? Jeff takes in the semi films it at the end of the film you see the charts. It's right there on the screen from the US energy administration of twenty. Nineteen twenty twenty all up to date. When you get to the under the film begins, you guys I. Think you've seen it right. At the beginning of the film he goes to a solar festival ten years ago. Then plus years now. and. They said it's all power power by solar it. He just goes backstage sees that it's been run on gasoline bomb January generator. He said. What's this is well? It was a cloudy. Cloudy Day of Goeransson Cloudy, day, you know anybody from Michigan knows I'm laughing only because in Michigan only one out of every four days. Has Son throughout the EU. It's called Sunday. That's why if you are living in California the Michigan. Diaspora, that extends throughout the south. West and California is a large anyways so You see that at the beginning of the film at the end of the film there's Jaffa Earth Day I don't want. It was a couple of years ago. But right now in the current time goes backstage on the mall in DC. To see the, because they just said on stage, and being powered by solar by alternative energy, and there's there's a solar is a solar array there, but it's there for essentially shell. He said he interviews the guy. The solar guy is powering that concert on the stage Asra. Singing right now is that you know that's that's been part off the Ledge Grit. And, so at the beginning of the film at the end of the journey between Jeff shows you that we've been lied to allow you know. Similar thing happened to me I just as twenty years ago, I wanted to find out what happens to those blue bins that we recycle. We'd put all our stuff. So I followed a truck that was going on clucking the Blue Bins following for twenty five thirty miles in Michigan. And! We ended up at a landfill and he just dumped them with the garbage the regular garbage. And from that day on I, just saw every time. You know I'll try to use the blue, but I know this blue moon is here for bullshit. It's to convince us that something's happening and it's to make me feel better because I did something today for planet. Recycling bins and but you know we're not those kind of people again. Did I say from Flynn? We don't have any of this happy happy. FITNESS WE CAN'T STAND BULLSHIT And we especially don't like it when people are CIDER, bullshitting to each other. We are GONNA. Lose this battle. We are losing this battle for climate climate crisis in climate, change and and We are sitting about it, and so we wanted to start this conversation. They don't want to have the conversation. They want to shut us down. They want that Spring to be black, so you can't see what we're going to show you if they think what we're showing you. Is Not right. Or Wrong Or the things our opinion or or analysis is wrong. We should have that debate. Why not have a debate? Why showed us down because while we will guarantee you every single fant? In the movie is absolutely correct. The opinions in the film are hours. And we might be right and we might be wrong. I. mean the. Critics will say you have an insufficiently optimistic. takes on the efficacy of solar panels that the tech that there are more optimistic projections that are coming in the future, but the point is they don't even want to. They don't want to have that back and forth. They just don't want to tell can't be shown. It's it's dangerous. Does that instincts. It seems like it's a new thing in like progressive. Thinking to just say we don't WanNa see that at all. Or is it I, don't. That's a good question. I don't know I do know that as humans. We are inclined to when we're caught. And they've been caught by the release of this film. To want to pretend that it doesn't exist or to call the people wire whatever I mean. It's still Richard Pryor routine. where he talks about the the importance of when your wife comes, home catches you in bed. With another woman, it's absolutely important to denied the other woman is there in the bed? No matter y you know even if you have to come right down. To who are you going to believe? me or your own wine lies. and. That is what they're essentially saying here that that were you wanted to believe or are you gonNa Watch. These guys are showing you in this film and believe them especially that there's one guy who's got thirty years worth of films warning you. About! The clamps of Industrial America warning. You about was going to be more than more school shootings. In Columbine warning you that there are GonNa be no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, warning you that that trump is going to win in five months, and he's going to win by winning Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania why would you believe that guy? You know that's the that's of course is the greatest fear that they're having to deal with. Because people are believing because we have injustice worked on bowling for Columbine at eleven and fair and I love nine, and he's written score for. Films is also a musician. They know that we have built up our credibility here with dozen films. And and we've never let the people down. And we've always told the truth and I had to take a lot. As you know a lot of crap over the years by telling the truth, me, you know. We went after the UAW forgetting bamboo General Motors so uaw attack the film. My uncle was one of the founders of the UAW in a sit down strike in Flint Nike thirty six. Here's the UAW attacking my film. Ralph Nader adapt the film you know he didn't. He told me he didn't who did I. Think I was doing something about General Motors. That was his bailiwick and I'm like Ralph's I grew up there. It's the hometown of the corporation. Ankle is in the strike. It I have had this happened so many. Look at when I named. Ralph Nader said that about your other film. Roger Macbride Ramiz. Use It! It's in the New York Times. Anybody can look it up. With the new. York Times in his in one of his associates, and they just attacked the film. stunned me stunning, because I spent a couple of years, my life working in Ralph's office in my younger years as Anita Raider, so it was just. In it's but know I'm I'm so used to this over the years. Michael Eisner tried to head of Disney. because. Disney owned Miramax he tried to. He said No. We're not releasing the film. He didn't WANNA. Upset are nine eleven right nine eleven. You didn't want to upset. Jeb Bush because they were going for a tax break for Disneyworld in Florida. And so these that wasn't going to release the film and we went to the new. York Times the story and they ran a front page story. About. Eisner one of the largest contributors to the Democratic, party? Not a right way. Trying to literally kill. This film. Where my Oscar for a bowling for Columbine. That night was the fifth night of the Iraq war, and I could not stand there and not say something about were being lied to. They're not gonNA. Find any weapons of mass destruction. And got, booed by liberal Hollywood off the stage. You know and what was saying. Democratic senators. voted. In favor of the war, the majority of Democrats, the Senate voted gave the war, and because I said that I said the film. Then, I'm dead to that. This list is just the same thing to me. accepted. It is much more aggressive and solidified. And I think it's only because we were going after. The way they were living frankly. And they want people. Hear the truth. Sorry A. So. There are just to kind of get to the more the Meta. Issue of censorship. Because there are people who are who don't have enough ultra motives who who have problems with your film, and that's fine like that's not. That doesn't make it worse. Worthy of being removed and. People who all kind of agree with on unpolitical? Not We all probably. Agree with them right. There are people who are just normal citizens who just disagree with the politics or whether it's because they think what you say is incorrect, or they think that the it can be used to justify ABC XYZ Z whatever, but I'm curious if you have a sense of how how many people have problems with the film, but are very committed to not taking it down oh a lot on I. could see that just am. My facebook post today? Especially instagram. Why are the instrument? People Nicer? The pictures. Pictures yes. And so. I yes, the number of them have said I don't agree with a scone. I don't like what you're saying. I don't agree with your analysis. The capitalism is the problem you know whatever it is yeah. But this is absolutely want. This is this is so wrong. That your freedom of speech should be held up in any way shape or form because freedom of speech. Actually you have the right to be wrong. Right we're taking that right away from us that we might be wrong. You by shutting down by having the screen lap. It's I gotTa tell you. Can I just say a little story? This is I've been so offended by I was the president of the flint rancher the ACLU when I was like nineteen or twenty years old. So I've cared deeply about civil liberties, and it's been very heartening to see a pen America. The civil liberties crude for writers and artists and filmmakers at once again for the second time in in two weeks. Take a very strong stand against the People Apprentice Sensor and shutdown this movie. but I I have been so I find it a point that anybody speech should be stifled. So back in I. Don't know when this was after the Oscar speech and Maybe it was a two, thousand, six, two, thousand seven somewhere around there. And there was an anti michelmore website called the more watch or Michael. Moore hates I remember that again. So and this guy was like relentless going after me every little thing you showed that picture Charlton Heston one tie on then he the next scene he had a different on. This coming, he was really just. After we console. Them one day he posts this this message. On. we just found out. My wife has cancer. And our health insurance ran out. Last year we don't have any help to dissolve before. We don't have any health insurance so I'm GONNA have to shut down the site. and. Get another job in try to paper her her treatment I'm really sorry to have to shut this down and I. and. Please tell the story. Please don't anybody think better of meat I'm I'm a flawed person just like everybody, so I'm not I'm not any kind of a safe here. But I couldn't. I I was so upset. I I had a when my producers Track him down. It was it was me just wanted to get a either an address or Send the money, too, and so we wrote out a check out not with my name on the check obviously. for twelve thousand dollars. To Send Him, so he could afford these next years. Health Insurance and couple days later he he goes online. Backup all my God. Somebody out there whoever you are sent me this money. Thank you for doing that and I'm going to be able to I'm going to be able to keep going after Michael Moore. Now I know this might seem a little masochistic Mayan, but but I I was more offended by the fact that I live in a country. It because he can't afford health insurance, his free speech is taken away from you to go after me. That was just I. Don't know I just said. said to Mike. I'm sorry going to sound crazy here, but we got a quiet. We just send him a check. And and get him get his wife. The treatments long story short as wife survives, e- continued attacking me, but I felt a need at some are not going to find this out and we were gonNA. Put this in I just I. The night before the film premiered in Canaan I called, so you let them know? Well he didn't take up. He was answering gene, so I just slept message. Saying Hey I. Don't want to say I. Don't think I'm up to anything. Disco Ball. Good intention and sincerity. And I hope you keep. If you ever WanNa talk I can clear up some of the things that you write about me. Or right but. Then he posted the voicemail on the. Ame- and and he still went after me, I gotta say. he went after me for you know if I were if I had his politics for good reasons, it wasn't making up or you know just going after saying the crazy stuff I've been listening to the last couple of weeks. It's like that famous line I may not agree with you, but I'll pay twelve thousand dollars to save your wife's life. Say You have the right to say it? Right one of our founding fathers. Shouldn't we be a little a little? forgiving especially I, I mean I have health insurance from the directors guild, the writers guild and SAG. You know and I've asked them. I don't need these other two policies like give them to somebody who doesn't have a policy, but it's like it's just wrong that I get to have that. and. He doesn't have that and and and plus here's something to I welcome the debate. I don't care yeah, meat or your guest being. Were you hate the movie agent movie? I hate a lot of movies. But it's it's like you know I'm not GonNa not read rolling stone anymore because they published this essay by given. Saying, things that weren't true, so but I'm not, but I'm still. GonNa Read Rolling Stone. I'm not to be like. You know. He didn't like my film regime, he said. Nasty about me. Spike. I'm just not I. Don't know wired that way. I think I want the great debate now I want you know I? It's it's it's We didn't get into it when I was on your podcast months ago. But I would love to have this conversation with Matt. At some point about what he's gone through with this whole. He's tried to tamp down all the overheated unhinged Russia Russia. Russia, stuff and On I think it's important to have that, and then I may have some disagreement on that so what? You know I mean that's one of the things I wanted to ask about. Is, some of this is stemming from a lot of the. Sort of a change in the way we look it. Speech and media since the trump era began since fake news, others been a lot of this idea that because of brexit and trump's election, and now the corona virus that we can no longer tolerate misinformation. It's longer harmless. We have to cut it off headed off at the pass. Therefore we have to take these preventive measures I mean has there been a sea change in the way people think about these things in. Has that affected your because in the in the old days? If you had a copyright, this be like the one you have. it would have been litigated. You would have gone to a court rate in any creative person can understand having a copyright claim that's understandable, but it would have been would have been argued out now. You just go to the tech over Lordon. And it's gone the next day, which is very different way of different way of looking at things. I've. Had I've had those legal. entanglements over the years over pair use and things like that, and and we've gone to court or we've. We've had a mediation. On and I've never lost I. Don't lose these things because I'm very careful about it because I do respect in artists in their in their work now. On the other hand, I don't have much respect for myself. So I. Make it clear to everybody. They are welcome at Beg. Borrow and steal on as much as they want. From my work I tell teachers do not. You don't have to get permission. Slip whatever to show my movies in your classrooms. You have automatic permission to use scenes and people take me up on that, and had people like there's a Song Ruben London that did re-cut of the Finland seen in my film where to invade next, and actually I think of a better cut than one. But they've got like thirty million views of this of this. Seeing my fam I'm chamber of all of that, but I don't believe that. He's not in favor. I'm not in favor of if But. Say a Katie. You have a You'll stand up and and so you've got your. You know forty five hundred one hour special. Katie OPRY That's your living. I don't think anybody should have the right to take that off the internet or Dis. And and then make money or an monetize that without. Solves off your labor. That's Yama your creativity. You cannot take another person's labor like that and then make money off their money that they don't see that unoppossed. Yeah, everything else though you know and plus with me, you know I've done well enough. Steal my shit and in and use it as much as possible and share it and whatever and the studios hate me saying this because they still want to make money off it nice, say to them really. You know that was eighteen years ago. You know and and and. And it failed, it was supposed to Scott Stop school shootings in the first mass school chaudhry shooting, and we often. Let's make this movie. Woman should never happens again. Now, what are we? Four hundred school shootings later saw. Why are you still want to make money on it it? It didn't work. On and I actually this thought that. I was trying to think of. How would I feel? Like like okay I'm the bill mckibben. Run the AL, Gore. Of Gun, violence and trying to stop. Gun violence in this country. And I made a movie about it. Done all this all this work for eighteen years. And in twenty years now. And what if a a couple of left filmmakers left-wing filmmakers? next year decided to make a film on all Michael Moore. And the Movement for gun control was wrong. Their hearts were in the right place when they made that movie, and when they tried to stop them wildwoods, but now we have white men with guns occupying our state capitals. White cops killing black citizens. And this movie, the site this imaginary documentary from next year. Says Michael. Moore meant well, but he was wrong because. Liberals, maybe should have bought some guns maybe should have learned how to fire a gun. Because now trump has refused to leave office. And his guys with guns are everywhere, and now we have to protect our lives. I could see that movie being made and I. Would you know I? Don't come talk to me about it as Jeff Director. As you see in the film tried to talk to build Clinton and was given the big brush off. On and sort of mocked to it at the same time. I I can see. I'm just saying because I'm a public person. And I've been active in various movements. Maybe, my way of trying to bring about change. Maybe it wasn't the right way. Maybe I should have been supporting seventy eight year old. candidate from Vermont. For President. And maybe we should have figured something out and. Trump got his second term. I mean magin anything like that and I would have to suffer through a documentary. About that well, but I was wrong, headed and and the and the younger more left wing. Joe Makers. Decided to take the PISS OUTTA BE. Well it wouldn't be the first. Michael Moore's full of Shit movie would who had been a few of those. Those are all comedy. And From your fellow travelers right, which is what makes us a little. Atypical one would be yeah. Yeah, the other ones were all from the right wing rap Brown, but the. What some great! Though Michael Moore hates America great one. Fahrenheit eleven point four. I don't know what the Touch Sunken Weird. Buydell, there's been. There's been Michael Me and me and Michael San I'm used to the all. This is nothing new, but one of the things that we've talked about recently is how like the Michael and it's funny? You brought up pen because. Han has i. mean what did they ever comment at all? On Julian Assange, or did they comment on him later on? Anyone. Know what the status is with that. I don't know about Penn of accused. The committee to protect reporters did I mean there. There were some, but in general I mean it hasn't been right. He is not given what a violation of of First Amendment rights his. Not to mention like civil rights civil liberties that he's undergoing There's been real silence and I think that then you see also with Michael Flynn right EC like mad has taken a lot of heat for this, but kind of saying that the way that they went after Flynn was not kosher. Shall we say And because? Various people who consider themselves progressive, hate Michael Flynn are hate Julian assange although more Michael Landon Asano play. We have seen I. Think this pause on a lot of cherished. Ideals. Like gesture, standard-issue liberals who aren't speaking out on certain things because it's politically inconvenient matches, you wrote this piece mad about how the Democrats lost, but is it. They gave up their commitment to sit. Talking about a man, but we were for instance just talking to. Fully Avenue of Oil Beneema about fifty. Palestinian journalists were just taken on facebook I mean there's just a lot of this kind of thing going on, but you're. You're movie is obviously the highest profile example of this. Kinda thing that that's happening right now. What striking you know! When when stupid white men if I remember correctly, harpercollins didn't WANNA. Publish it, but there was this movement. Organic movement of Librarians read who who pressured them into changing their minds, and that's what I'm worried. I'm not seeing in this case. Is that that kind of? pushback just posted on my facebook where the CABBIE. Emotion? And this that if they're able to just shut down anybody's film. And you know. Okay I'm not anybody. So I guess it makes it even worse right right? Yeah, exactly rated if they could shut down. The person. Who You an Oscar winner! Yeah, exactly! That's the point Oscar winner. Of you know my films have. Ten okay, if done okay I don it's hard for me to say. Okay Yeah. Y-! You know let's just let's say on the Steven Spielberg of documentary. Would they would they do this? Would this happened to Steven Spielberg? What would they say? Comes down fiction. They're the largest grossing documentary films of all time. Why would you? Why would you not stand up and say? Where's the International Documentary Association? Yeah, is the ACLU this is now the William Today. Fine all of my screen being dark. Not, because aw, there's liable in the film because of of what twitter had to do to trump saying. Click here for the for the facts. None of this it's just they don't like the movie and they don't like me asking these questions that are uncomfortable. When you don't like something you make your case yeah, to slay all over the place and then try to censor. Try to get it taken down cheese. I can't say the people I've heard from that. They contacted that they contacted especially that first week I. Mean it was like every friend of mine in Hollywood Oscar winning directors I. Get I mentioned one name Dr. Cornel West I mean literally. They went everywhere across. The liberal left a universe in. All him speak for himself, but when when he got. When he got that email. He, just he. He thought this had been a prank. Or the world as we know, it is over rap, because if these otherwise good never left people have lost their minds on a movie. A movie that's on U2. It's free. Okay, seriously really. You've got to really try to rain down people and their film because you don't like it. Just. Tell us why you don't like it. Then let's we'll tell you why you're right or wrong that. You know. If, we got fat Wong. Tell us we'll fix it. It's it's it's. There's why go to this length we'll. Can they put it back up because you I mean, you can take out that clip right I mean just to. It's not about that, but can you replace the four second thing and then we'll obviously. Can You Change Your poll? I would know 'cause. It's totally natural, so I'll have to try and say. Everybody during the pandemic has had their. This is actually my hair. Suppressive. What about building awards, but it's got hair. In my sixties, and its original color at the really yeah on, but. It's like yes, it's four seconds, but our attitude toward the first amendment. Is You give them four inches? Second Zach. Where does it stop? They don't have a right. We follow the war. We are following a congressman. And, so is it killing me that aren't able to see the film especially with all this attention. You know if if we were more what's the word? You know wanting to get more people to watch the movie? We all right are anxious, yes. Everybody's wanting to see it right now or. No so here's what we're doing. We're going through and and I. Don't know what you're writing that but I mean youtube. They were very toss were putting up helping us, but I think now it's really the lawyers are the that are making the decisions, and they're always afraid in whatever, but they do system there and the system allows somebody. To take down a movie. TAKEDOWN video. Eric I guess the last question that I have about that is doesn't the matter. Even if you do get the movie, put back up. Doesn't that already have a chilling effect on the next person. WHO's GonNa make a movie I mean the. The next person. Janey Sue Billy Bob in Boise or Topeka. Bins they see this. What's happened and they're GONNA go. WHOA, you know I know we should switch. Say This in the film. It's true we have the backup, but we're not Michael Moore. Lead this Michael Hor. We don't have the lawyers. We don't have the money where this is A. Yes, it has it will have a chilling effect because who wants to go through this bullshit and wants to pay for. Was the paper these lawyers. So I think the people are going to see movies and bought my books because they had given me the ability to fight the bastards whenever they come after me, and they'd give me the ability to do that stain, so I'm never making decision while I'm making a movie, but a lot of other people of Iran worse. Yes, but I don't have to unfortunate. I don't have that if I put that in the movie. You know it's never gonNA. I'll never make another movie again. They'll never give me any money. And I am and by the way Mike. Why do you want to put that in there? Buddy Al Gore Al Gore's a nice guy. He invited you over for breakfast one morning in Nashville the number of years ago and you. We talked and tipper made eggs and Bacon. And blast inappropriate rap music. I was waiting. See I'm really. I'm really kind of a shy. Person I'm around people I. don't really like this fight I don't get anything out of it I would much rather be watching sports center right now. I'm you know and and getting a haircut in the world going back to normal, but I don't think that's going to happen. That's the other thing. It's like my my own podcast. I started telling people the truth because I have I have a source at the NIH at CDC. At Harvard at Nyu. And! They're feeding me all this stuff and like I. Can't if I say this, people get so depressed. They don't want to hear. They want to hear that. It's all GonNa be over soon. That there's going to be a vaccine with any. And it's like I. Already know that that's not gonNA happen. There's not going to be seen this year. Next year. or the year after that. And see again. That's on probably do as upsetting people watching this. I hate to upset people I want them to be happy I. Want them to live their wives, but women lie to about this pandemic from the get-go. And again there had been well. Tension lies because they don't want you to freak out or get depressed or paralyzed by it. For me when I hear bad news, I don't get paralyzed revved up. Roundup ready to rumble ready to frigging holly. How what are we going to do to fight this? How can we be on New Zealand? That's always my question I. Mean I I always think it's a major tell when critic says the person didn't offer solutions in the film, because like whose whose job is at the that's not traditionally. Anybody's job to do that doesn't reflect on the factuality of the work at all I heard this when every film since the beginning. So, what would you do to fix General Motors. To still it's understandable because people want a happy ending to the movie. You don't want somebody, starts you? You want I, Dunno. Has A happy every movie. Bridesmaids Yeah I. Say That people this. Unidas documentary filmmakers because we're like the doctor. We dig in investigate. We find out what's wrong and we tell you what's wrong. We tell you you've got this can't sue. You the patient don't say to the doctor. Why are you telling me that? Well. Let's the solution. You Got The cure for cancer, right? Go I don't have the jerk for cancer. God Damn. Why'd you bother telling me? I chance are ramp. If you don't got the cure for cancer, no documentary is to tell you where the cancer is in some cases, sometimes won't climbing. Here's Michael, before it before before we let you go I as. An employee of rolling stone, a I guess I'm obligated to ask what what what? What did mckibben get wrong in his piece? Let me say this about bill. Mom We all him a lot he has through the years. from his timing, wrote his first book nineteen, Eighty nine. We weren't even really talking about the city. Did talk about it? I, you know I don't know you call we. It was a call back. Then called a warming or Whatever I mean. He got a lot of people thinking about this just like Al. Gore did with his movie and. peace peace fries and everything else so you have to honor what they have done. For the movement. It's just that decision got me in wrong turns for taken and you know like when he says that he's done all this work for three fifty and he has never taken a penny trauma. Well I my first thought is. That's horrible. That's the venture life's work. Why would who's not pay you and you need to come in there as a labor organizer and get you paid. So, he says he doesn't take a penny from it. That then that that means somebody else's funding you because somebody's paying the bills. So bow. All of us need to be transparent about where the money is coming from I was thinking about this just from his operating from Allen I should be transparent. I should literally put up on. My website cares where all the money to make. This film came from. And you decide whether or not you think that was a good idea to take money from that studio or that network whenever I mean. I thought I was thinking when I did TV Nation Series on NBC back in the nineties were owned by Ge there are weapons manufacturer. You know, so. It's not like I have been around. These people in their money, but I always admitted early sat i. just honestly Defend Truth. I felt really bad. not as bad as I talked to Mike more. Hey, guy and not having health insurance but I didn't feel bad. If you read bills piece in rolling stone. He goes through this long litany. Of everybody, he's helped in everybody's known naps and he's in. It's sad like you don't have to defend yourself. You've done all this good. He went through his like he's made. Everybody but Gandhi and was like. This is like this is the environmental movement. or any movement wouldn't it becomes a religion? And and somebody becomes perceived as a Sun. God, and this is a lot of people that have written personally. They're mad. Why would you watch a such a nice fans? Are we GONNA go after him? Look at the film. There's four scenes. He's in in one hundred minutes and every scene. He's doing the talking. He's the one on the stage with ex Goldman Sachs sky. He's the one. cutting the ribbon were. Watching this. woodfired plant, burning all this wooden putting pollution up into the atmosphere. That's him they're. Doing. And it's him blowing off the filmmaker in not really giving them a serious interview when he's asking very polite questions. that's all bill being bill and I'm sure he regards it I have seen myself. Do Things on TV that I regretted? and You know he'd shouldn't take it, so personally should. Don't leave the movement, but damn. Tell people. What can't we try this? We put all our eggs in one basket. But. We're not going to be able to solar panel and window our way out of this mess. So now we need to have new thinking and we new blood need you young people to get involved as we have thought your future. That's what I love to see. See Him say and do. I will join him in that sold Jeff Ozzy. What makes this complicated I? Don't on a more. I don't think it's complicated because I think that I'm against censorship. APP But what makes it complicated? It's like you know there are people you who you agree with on on most things I mean even this is like a an interest. Sanders Garrett. Fight so maybe it could be called. The have just like hash it out. I mean they would have to be blackmailed on bribery, but they would have to then like probably I wonder who would do it. Because if the ones who really think that it should be taken down, probably wouldn't, but it'll be an interesting thing, because then it would be if they did accept, it would be a great demonstration of why should not be censored right because of the debate that genders. Native to do is they'd have to the slanderous things defamatory things that they said about us. Personally you know they'd have to. Apologize For that or somehow yeah, they get back or prove. You know woman some electric. That said. You're still quarterback. Echo Fascism now. All that stuff so they so I mean very hard to have a conversation with someone who's on hinged. Or as as called you on the equivalent of some very awful words or names, we would never would never use on so, but I'm hoping that I think this is going to happen with this film. I think we will get back up. there. Somebody will come to our aid in defense and own. And then we will have that discussion with the public. Maybe not with the people that are taking money Woman's environmental movement. But. We'll have it with real. The real people that are the environmental movement in this country and on an we'll and we don't have time much talk because we are out of time. We're completely out of time. Young people should be so. At anybody over the age of forty five. that we haven't fixed this that we let it go this long on. It's It's kind of to be mad at Matt that means exactly prosperous few seconds and watch that will. I think try to do that every episode. For within the EU played. The drums behind me, not not well. I'm a beginner. midlife crisis thing that release you're seeing. On on this August no. That's never going to know. started boy band with his three sons. It's going to happen. On The Voice of God. There's the guy that's GonNa save you. Right but I would think that the podcast Paul Useful Idiots. Why's it has a drummer somewhere on the? Be Our. Motto I mean our logos. Logos should have trumpcare. droning onto long like I, wasn't. Law? Doo Doo Doo rim shots. Whenever someone tries to wrap up an interview with you or anything in general, be like Oh i. get it so you're for censorship. Beautiful New any reported. Were you. Are you gotta get down to the next interviewing off? I. See, what's happening here? Again! Well on that note, Michael Thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it went in. I. Think as. We said we really hope the film gets back up soon and that This whole thing has been a terrible and. Sorry that happened were. That's okay. You know what's really terrible, but we all have one job this year and move Donald J trump from the White House and any time. We spent fighting each other on this shed. It's like some of this can wait a few months. We all work together to flip the Senate to remove a trump, and in even just in the day to day. Like what's going on this past week in Minneapolis sickening I'm I'm I'm like? You know it's we've got big stuff. And we and second wave of this is gonNA come back. We didn't. We didn't stay at home the way we should have. And now more people are going to die so We've got some heavy stuff in front of us, and and we need more love and kindness toward each other, even when we disagree. I think that's really really or some that's that's a great note Dan. Thank you so much, Michael Aaron, and Vic so much for coming on. I think. His consistency on this. He's very old school and his devotion to all a lot of these. Principles and I get the sense that he is sincere about wanting to have the discussion about the stuff, but. Ensure that was great that thanks for everybody for listening and we'll. We'll see you again next week.