#58: The Big 5 Gut Rehab (France and United Kingdom) Week of July 29, 2019


Angel Spun Get the Job Done Ah <music> hello and welcome to the euro episode number fifty eight for the week of July twenty ninth. I'm Ben Smith and I'm joined today by Mike mccomb. Hey Mike and our special guests Helen Drift ice. I Helen I he's the having used so we are a bunch of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision Song Song contest and this week we are wrapping up our series <hes> Gut renovating all the big five and talking about France and I guess really just Kinda stage intervention for the United Kingdom. That's why we're all here is what we had the folding chairs yeah. This is a very thin thinly-veiled excuse to talk about the U._K.. But we will talk about France. We love you and we're concerned. Yes even France. I'm sure listeners will love that. We've Combined Branson U._K.. <hes> to because yeah because their best eastern of this history conflict two tastes that goes so great together yes so Helen Welcome to the program. Thanks for having me so in Blunter splur- you hear that you can't produce eurovision well this kind of I guess all roads lead back to one direction in my case case. I was following a lot of U._K.. People around two thousand fourteen up your way because we brought friends because of that and a lot of them were tweeting pictures of a Cheetah <unk> on my timeline and I was like what is this and someone sent me a link. I ended up watching. I think the last half of the grand final that year and I have I've been hooked ever since the relatively recent but devoted euro fan now excellent excellent and again two thousand fourteen feels like a really good year to start with yeah. Common Linnet was also there my brother in I'm a big fan of of Iceland's entry from that. You're polar punk. Oh Yeah I think John Oliver covered that won that year as well so that it got some a lot of American press because a Cheetah One <hes> <hes> I think that year she was one of the top two google searches like in the United States yes so it's like wow that's it's really cool. It's also memorable for the French entry which will get to in a minute. I'm sure that I think that might have been the first entry that I actually ended up watching tune again. Halfway through out is so what an intro yeah yeah. I mean really if you if you're going to get the true your vision experience that is a very eurovision e and tree yes yeah and then it just kept getting more serious. As the years went on kind kind of Australia came in and made everybody step up their game saying exactly exactly we will get to talking about France in the U._k.. In a second second but it made sense to checking in on a few news desk things yeah so as always how many cities are in Netherlands we have to and as we predicted in last breath episode the think within hours of dropping the episode out no it was it was like while I was editing the episode that the news came up and it's like Oh cool. Thanks <hes> I'm. I'm not taking any of this stuff that we said otherwise we would have been like fifteen minutes shorter which may people would have appreciated but <hes> yeah it is now down to Maastricht and Rotterdam. I am as of this recording and full disclosure were recording a little bit early compared to when this episode is going to drop so there may be a selection made made by the time this episode goes live but <hes> yes Maastricht has already been looked at by the broadcaster. I'm not sure when Rotterdam's going to be getting looked at that probably would have already happened by the time the episode goes up <hes> weird. I think Rotterdam makes a little bit more sense as a choice seems like it has like better like venue capabilities in like a lot of people are going to WANNA probably go to Amsterdam as a tourist if they're there for a little bit in Rotterdam is think close fish of a train ride. I kind of liken it to Duesseldorf twenty eleven. I think yeah anyways I've never been to the other ones and <unk> as Dutch descendant. I feel like that is crime in now that I live in the U._K.. Farther jaunt so I'm full fully planning to go to Eurovision. I should next year. If if I can be helped excellent I think travel wise both of them seem okay. I mean I think Rotterdam's probably a little bit easier to get to but as we're planning our trip like we want to try to Belgium and maybe northern Germany and like you could do like a nice straight line from Belgium to Maastricht to Cologne alone but Yup Rotterdam would be just as awesome as well if you if you stay too long on your train from from Amsterdam to Rotterdam you will be in Belgium yes so the most people will be flying in like through Amsterdam as well so easier easier giant the process moving along so smoothly. I'm excited to see how it turns turns out compared to last year. Oh good organise such a relief like no news is good news at this point true true and then the other big news that was kind of a surprise like I certainly was not expecting it. <hes> Netflix has picked up the Eurovision rights for the U._S.. Yes yeah and that that's a that's a big one yeah yeah it was announced on Friday July nineteenth that the two thousand nineteen contests will be available for streaming hang on Monday July twenty second so it should already be on that list now by the time you're listening to this and it's the semi-finals and the final not just the final so that's kind of new for the U._S.. Normally semifinals weren't available. I'm interested to see how some of the editing to the grand final will be in this iteration considering one of Madonna's vocals which apologies on behalf of Michigan for that she is from Saginaw <hes> and then also like I'm curious to see whether the two major like statements on Palestine will be kept in agreed to just using the D._v._d.. Version according into various Internet sources apparently the D._V._d.. Does Not Have Hattori showing Palestinian flags so I'm I'm guessing that the version that POPs up on Netflix also will not have that especially because they're getting this after the fact which means they're probably getting the D._v._d.. Version Madonna already put her her version of the grand final on Youtube so I imagine veteran. She has a say in that yeah that was that was a that was a weird experience going back to that before. It's we need to review for the show just doing this is very different. From my memory. I went back and watch the Super Bowl <unk> performance phone a few years back. That's not much better for the vocals tweaked after the fact for that one or I might have been but I think that was before the the N._F._l.. was like posting official recordings. I was watching a boon yeah. One thing I noticed in the press. Release is that'd be twenty. Twenty contest is also going to be available but all all signs from that press release point to it being after the fact and not live. That's disappointing though because it's like when I think when yeah when the Olympics started started being aired live like you can't just you know you're going to see the results ahead of time and it was just like Oh spoiler spoiler as light. It's twenty well. It will be twenty twenty twenty. You can't really avoid it kind of excitement out yeah. I think it's also going to depend on what they mean by after the fact like if the contest is going to be available until July I twenty twenty that yes that's ridiculous but if it's going to be like what <hes> B._B._C. America had to do with Dr who wants to twenty thirteen hundred fourteen per it the era at eight P._M.. In the U._K.. And then it aired the same day in the U._S.. But at eight PM time but there was like that five hour gap Oh yeah <hes> <hes> fans would not stand for it which is like okay calm down but I I feel like with your revision like the die. Hard fans are going to seek it out live regardless and the people who are much more casual about it. The five hour delays not gonna be that big of a deal because I remember being a doctor who fan in twenty thirteen in two thousand fourteen be like guys we can wait eight hours. It's fine yeah same. I've watched doctor who recently but I hear Jodie's good so <music> female doctor is let's check on the season. She's doing great. They asked her back so good. All signs point you them not airing. It live even though Oh of the broadcasters in the U._S.. Netflix definitely it feels like they have the infrastructure to be able to stream that he has to be them dipping a toe into how do we do live events. It's on Netflix. Live is thinking about 'cause logo did not air a the twenty nineteen contest but they also didn't give up the rights which means like my family who is watching it back in the U._S.. <hes> over the phone with me had to seek out the Swedish feed. I also thought P._B._S.. Might be a good fit but I don't think they have the infrastructure sure with Netflix also doing the Will Ferrell's Eurovision movie like feel. It feels like this was a there may have been negotiations happening paying for a very long time about this and we're only just now finding out about it like I I'm so intrigued by this development and if the American song contest or whatever that ends up turning out to be like comes to fruition they may be shopping at to net flix rather than conventional broadcast network which might make more percents. I I don't know they're definitely more open to like new things so and they're not bound by any set schedule Agile either through obviously over in Europe doesn't really make much of a difference but hopefully that'll get more of a U._S.. Audience It because <hes> President George Pompidou died and they were we're going to air his memorial instead which and like their preferred was like sitting in the audience of your vision which is this kind of weird by get it. They also did not participate in nineteen eighty two and that was not due to a leaders passing that was due to the network that aired it at the time t.f one one criticizing everyone basically like they said that like there was an absence of talent and mediocrity of songs and declined to participate yeah everybody sucks. We're not doing this and the next year. A different channel took over in France. I'm more diplomatic channel. I would host yeah <hes> participate. That's ironic because France is like one of the founders of the contest that was real funding into those <hes> so as a nation they have had five wins three of which were in the first ten years of the contest and they've had one last place which we will definitely be talking about because that was in twenty fourteen all of their entries have had some or were entirely in French which did not surprise me at all because help. France France is is going to remain in the Big Five era they have had four top tens and eight instances where they were in twentieth or worse. Let's talk about France everybody what works for France and a national final seems to be doing okay yeah and it seems like they're learning as they're going like I thought last year's <hes> well <hes> the two thousand seventeen no sorry twenty eighteen edition of destination revision. It was a good I try like I think there were a number of kinks thinks that they had to work out and I think they worked out a lot of those kinks. In this year's edition. Yeah didn't pick up no bad song. I just can't remember it. Much of all of the nations at your vision is the one that has like the strongest national identity tends to be I think of France's motives strong nations and I think when they find a way to kind of balanced out there Frenchness it does it does good things for them and that by bouncing it I mean they either go all in or they figure out like that. Nice fifty fifty blind like nothing in in the middle because if you look at two thousand nine <hes> Patricia Kaas like that is like standard French torch song and they came in eighth place and they won the artist artist or then you look at something like Amir from two thousand sixteen or the sixth that was also like them serve still doing internal selection but suddenly suddenly being open to having a chorus in English or a verse in English <hes> and moving more towards like pop sensibility and tapping into like the voice talent Lynch <hes>. I believe he was a voice lob so I mean he's very charismatic as well on stage. I remember having him having so much energy. I was watching with a room full of students that year uh-huh do we want to talk about two thousand fourteen. That's definitely one that where it didn't work for them and I think one thing that that doesn't entirely they work for them and it's something that I like about France is that they're not afraid to go weird but occasionally they go to weird. I think not only about <hes> twin twin in two thousand fourteen and mustache but Sebastian tell ya in two thousand eight with divine were I love the visuals of that performance because you have an array array of five backing singers wearing fake beards to match Sebastian but also the vocals on that Song live are not great. Oh and it's just kind of like a three minute mood piece. The one that I was Kinda surprised like you know your your vision. Channel puts out there like you know top ten most viewed like each month in then like for I think a good like year a year. At least twenty seventeen like the most played entering on the channel was like they're twenty ten entry Jessy matador. I didn't realize how popular that was apparently elitist outside of the contest and that came wealth I believe on the night came twelfth and that would also I think I picked up by like Feta for a soccer thing. Oh that would make sense. That's probably why it has like a crazy amount of views but and like that would make so much sense as a soccer song and like I think before toy that was the in most watched eurovision might have been yeah yeah I.. I didn't realize the soccer connection. That totally makes sense. Yeah that makes sense. I think yeah yeah now that I listened to it. I'm thinking I'm comparing to secure added workshops on didn't she. Yeah it's kind of like that yeah or the one that Ricky. Martin did yeah yeah yeah so just doing some quick clicking around yeah so I lay allow ole was to be used by the French broadcaster as the summer hit of two thousand ten and also promoting be twenty twenty two feet for World Cup so I was like well. We have it for these two things. Let's just send it to Eurovision. Smart ways <hes> yeah I mean they came in twelve. It was not a bad strategy. Yeah what else is working or not working for France. They seem to just be like the exception of a mere. They're kind of middle of the table right right about now. I really liked actually directly from twenty seventeen. Yeah I like that. Song I think even though it performed last in the running order which I think think is normally considered to be a strong position 2017 was it was a real marathon to have to get through and I think by the time it got to that song is just like Oh. Can we just get to the voting he's. I don't think that's what we all knew who was GonNa win so yeah yeah. Wasn't there the whole controversy about whether or not that was even eligible. Oh yeah it wasn't a plagiarism thing I don't paying but yet sent a pre September one right and I think that also contributed too like why there was so much more English <hes> in the revamped version yeah it was <hes> really getting into the weeds of <hes> all the technicalities but I think also kind of highlighted a problem that I think Francis getting over where and this was really the case with Amir's entry where it's trying to take a four minute song and fit it into three minutes but the very wordy language and like in the two thousand sixteen performance. I I thought that Amir was it was going to be between like Sergey Lazarev Amir <hes> for winning up but then you got to the edited performance for France and it's like oh he doesn't have time to breathe like there's no break anywhere in the song and I think that's probably what caused it to SORTA underperforming. It's still performed well in two thousand sixteen but I think I was expecting Ashe Higher. I think the exact same thing happened with Italy in two thousand seventeen <hes> Yup. He also came who also lcm six yeah. I think this is a step in the right direction. I think the running order might have hurt below a little bit because he came right before Italy. I think <hes> you know kind of cancel each other out but I think it was a song that fit him. I wonder if they might consider having their national selection of bit later. Maybe it doesn't completely lose that buzz but yeah I thought he did a very good job this year of having a song and a singer that felt like it wasn't just randomly assigned that where they went together and like the combination made it stronger. I mean he's such a great personality as well. I mean he's a joy to watch Eddie interview. He he does definitely knows how to work. The camera sure such a big eurovision fan too yeah I mean I love when you get a contestant that like so clearly loves is like being there instead of just being like I'm here for a paycheck. Although I think one of my recommendations if they stick with the Destination Eurovision informat which I think they should maybe not have madame masseur participating next year like I like. I know we were very <hes> critical of them. In twenty eighteen I think they did a good job working with all this year but I think they're just too middle of the road as showed by the fact act they've finished thirteen and two thousand eighteen and a little lower than that this year and I think was the final one post Posta Shuffling. I I think they are going to have a very successful career and a very long career but I don't think they're going to break through the way that they need to get France into the top. Tad's so it'd be it'd be good to find another artist or song writer or team uh of artists and songwriters who are going to be able to just get that extra bit of oath yeah. I would love to hear other voices in French music. <hes> one thing that I do like about France as I was like <hes> looking through the entries that they've had over the years they have submitted a fair number of artists of color. Yes which is great eight two thousand ten and in Blah was well mom and then there were a few in the nineties as well. Keep that up yet. They're doing better than a lot of the other countries guard. Yes like really I think of the big five they are probably doing the bet well. I mean at least doing the absolute best but of up or leaning big <hes> big five if we had to give a second place in terms of that. I feel like France kind of France. Yeah and might be France I and another thing they might want to consider this like if do like destination Eurovision like one more year but do it the way that Cyprus did it like in Twenty fifteen where they had their national final and then for like two or three years following that they had other contestants from that national final so it's like. Oh yeah the runner up from the twenty fifteen contests test went out to represent them in two thousand sixteen <hes>. Ho- vague was also a contestant in the twenty fifteen national final did well in twenty seventeen and yeah just kind of build up a pool and then just have a national final every few years and just build up that pool again yeah. I think that's something that Mel fest in particular takeaway very good at is getting these returning artists back and building them up to keep doing what you're doing. France keep up the good work right there so that was the appetizer and how what what we're really here for buckle up twitter. It's time for the United Kingdom Albritton. Oh goodness all right so I have a feeling people are going to have opinions about this one. Oh yes anticipated very big comment section. Yes yes so let me get our pages of notes open in terms of their history. They participated at your vision <hes> every year except nineteen fifty six an eighteen fifty eight in that time they've had fifteen second-place finishes which is crazy to me. <hes> I mean granted yeah like I mean in the early years. There were only like there were fewer than ten countries so like second place isn't as much of a fee but still fifteen overall. That's pretty impressive. <hes> they've had five wins their last being in the late nineties. They've finished in last place four times. They've only had one nil wa which was back in two thousand and three Gemini Yeah <hes> since since the Big Five distinction they've had a two top five finishes his <hes> but ten of their entries finished in twentieth or worse so not great. I don't think are the weakest of the Big Five I yeah. I think maybe carrying that torch but <hes> so U.. K. has that to be proud about. I don't know but at least you have that yeah <hes> yeah <hes> although it's it's it's a racer the bottom. I guess this past decade in particular is just staying really awful. That was my next question like what's working. Good for them a lot. Yeah I list what's worked but there's no way for me to connect the dots in terms of figuring out larger patterns because what's worked for them. Having Andrew Lloyd Webber write the Song Surviving Band stage at the contest which I didn't realize until I watch the videos like Oh. He's just there yeah that was yeah. He was just hanging out with Jane. You know he's he's seems to be having a year this year. Cats is a thing so we should graf the faces of their next <hes> contestants onto some sort of weird life-size excited snapchat filter effect other things that have worked reviving a boy band revived blue and blue ended up in eleventh. If somehow somehow maybe they were good and that's why they got eleven and I've watched it's it's like when like when like backstreet goes onto or or like all these boy fans are Gonna get together and say no after going down and just sort of continuing to revive artists to to lower and lower returns they did then what internal and did ed picked serving emerging artists with molly and children of the universe and that place seventeenth which I remember how excited U._K.. Was for that where where it was just like okay we found ah I think they also had like a new head of delegation or a head of selection at BBC and they were like trying this new like almost kind of like the N._p._R.. Tiny desk concert search method of choosing a red button thing whereas like you can find out who are artists is with with the red button yeah and <hes> like I. I can understand the enthusiasm for that but that song was just so just not for me I but I don't know who it was four. I remember being very excited about it and I think I just got caught up in the in the General U._K.. Hype Yeah it was like we might actually not we might reach the left hand side this year. That's like seems to be the standard at the moment we haven't even reached that so they tried another internal selection that didn't work then we're like okay cool national finals again and so in two thousand Seventeen Lucie Jones and never give can you that song was written by at least written by Emily deforest so that's like a pass Eurovision winner kind of giving them a boost and they came in fifteenth that year and that's like the best they've done. I thought that entry worked for the most part I do think that the tele vote didn't deserve that low of televised score but they did get a bulk of their points from the Gary that was one it took a very long time to grow on me but I agree. I think it works and I think that the way that they staged that performance formats is in the direction that they should be going like it seems like an not not jump ahead to the recommendation section but <hes> any future and tree where the golden shower effect could possibly be a consideration for the staging should be rejected like nope no more golden showers for the U._K.. We've reached the peak with that. Yes I just remember. That's the only U._k.. Entry right can think of where there's like kind of a wild moment when <hes> I think it's the second chorus comes around the one thing I will say about that particular entry is that <hes> she has some interesting facial expressions while she sings <hes> <hes> on the west end now by the way Lucie Jones she for her in waitress at the moment <hes> so good for her to be hurt her stomping grounds. That's her background so connect with Andrew Lloyd Webber Go. Maybe bring her back with Andrew Lloyd Webber. I feel like choosing someone. WHO's a little bit? More theatrical isn't a bad idea because I think Surrey. We also had some like Les Mis and like she seemed fun. I liked her. Even if the song didn't do great I thought she would get more sympathy tele votes but no I thought I thought because they had someone like jump on stage like they should have taken the opportunity to perform again at the end. I know I was wondering that too early in the running order yeah they were like after a commercial break yeah. They should've taken that to like how their song out again but I also understand why they didn't and and respect them for that but yeah like I thought that that song could have done better yeah. I just mandate should have had her back. I miss her. She seems to be doing okay though so okay so those are things that have worked it hasn't worked everything else literally everything else and like a lot of them kinda latching onto what had what had worked and just running into to the ground after blue came in eleven okay cool Engelbert Humperdinck Bonnie Tyler with do it and at the world said no Engelbert humperdinck century is fine in but it's not a eurovision song. I mean if I need like something soft on in the background at a party like maybe I just remember a two thousand fifteen. I think that's the first year of watch the contest and fall an electoral velvet coming on and me just being like what in the world is this. Let's have like no like strobe lights on clothes anymore. Either never do that again. I applaud them for just going completely out of the box with that line but that it's it it still makes me cringe anytime pops this up on my spotify yeah one thing I will point out. Is that the room at my my Your Vision Party in Twenty fifteen loved electro velvet unfairly. It's none of us had voting prevention like I did not love it but like the rest of the people I've ever like. This is amazing. I appreciate what was going for in trying to mash up but also now. I think this year is the year where have is just like. Maybe there's some hope for it because I mean okay bigger than us. This is not like the best song don't believe in a good song but like him or not. Michael writes has an amazing voice and I thought like okay we have something here and then just the whole press around. It seemed to be like the Swedish representative wrote this song and they really took that and day their stage performance in Tel Aviv was basically Sweden light. That is a good point that there was not really a strong narrative around around him where it's like yeah it was either framed in the context of Sweden which that's not going to help anybody or they were making a big deal about him going to Tel Aviv and having awful for the first time and it was just like I listen to the B._B._C. podcast about your vision that they put out this year which also didn't do any favors for my opinion the BBC in that regard. Oh my Gosh I just I felt bad for him. Yeah I think the biggest problem that that we were sort of talking around is that the U._k.. Needs like a massive attitude adjustment. When it comes to your vision is that right now you have the B._B._c. kind of be focusing on being snarky and not really marketing things and being kind of lazy about the selection process? Yeah I get it like one of the one of the draws that they kind of advertise on in the U._k.. For people watches like you listen to Graham Norton riffing on all the acts which I like Graham Norton but not necessarily in that context. I feel like it's like the B._B._C.'s attitude has led okay. It's this thing that we have to pay money for and I guess will be there and you know just doing like Lieberman literally the their minimum yeah yeah it's it's super frustrating because the U K pop industry has so many good like songwriters and songwriting camps and is doing great production stuff like you you have a Dell. Maybe don't send a Dell but don't send Adele. She's busy but convinced disclosure to like do something kinda Housi- for three minutes with a good vocalist on top of it yeah yeah yeah. Don't don't ask me to do anything else. Please yeah they definitely should not send Adele because I could just see people being like aw that's just the U._k.. Panda Reagan like then people won't vote for it because of that at it's just going to be completely absent of what the song was or like how Adele would sing it so yes definitely do not send Adele <music>. You're correct that like you would not win if you sent her but not for the reasons that your suggestion the narrative would be like oh we can send Adele when still lose exactly exactly yeah. There's just a lot of complaining about how they don't get votes because of Brexit which probably partially true fair yes correct. Let's be real supposedly by this time time. According to the plan from last year is that we'd be out of the E._U.. By now but that has not happened yet so it's scheduled for Halloween of all of all dates so if it happens at all so you know this this contest is is not political drink drink now but I have a radical idea because the B._B._C. does not seem to care handed off to another network. Maybe I mean I'm wishing well. I was doing a little bit of research. 'cause I was wondering what the audience for the BBC like is and it turns out the average viewing age. Each of BBC One at least is like in the fifties and sixties really yes. How not really the audience for a European anymore? Maybe like thirty forty years ago when it was still like you know quote unquote a family show but like it's <unk>. The contest is gearing a lot younger anger now. They're the C._B._S.. Of Your vision and the network that's actually I think the most successful in terms of viewership at the moment is actually hi T._v.. They are the network that has like all the British talent competitions so they've got the x factor got the voice they've got Britain's got talent notable among all things it's not really talent competition but they are the network that has a long island at the moment which is just all over my feed right now. The young are watching have the winner of love eyelid. Go Represent your we've tried everything except that and you know what maybe they can sing a special love island season during the spring where they can all sing but I- T._V. is as its parent company isn't Byu member so like There is an indie artist. Guano who used to be part of this pop group called the pets and like now she's off recording like music in Welsh and cornish admittedly it's it's like five minute Kinda like crowd rocky songs that do not fit in two or three minute bucket but I'm sure that if asked to write a three minute song they could do it yeah so I have two the ideas <hes> once a little bonkers one I think is a little more straightforward. <hes> I'll start with the bonkers one <hes> there have been reports that Ed Sheeran as expressed his interest in writing a eurovision song and I think the B._B._C. should consider taking him up on that. That's not the bonkers part that was that was on my list of suggestions that was like edge. Everybody loves Ed Sheeran Right now. Make him right for everybody but his his schedule is such that he's not going to be able to be the performer former for it so you have to get somebody else to like actually sing the song and I think the person that they should get is my nemesis Nicole Scherzinger really really okay yeah. I think number one I think that collaboration would be kind of insane just because they're just two completely different styles styles <hes> but he did put out a collab- album yeah. I think she's also a no like she's a known quantity in the U._k.. But she's not awfully certainly not a madonna level star like she's like her. GIG is judge on the mask singer so it's like the proper level of celebrity liberty but also had history of being an x factor judge in the U._k.. As well right so and she was also going back to cats. Let's see within cats in the death and so I mean she has an audience and I think she'd do it. I think she would too yeah. I mean alternately if she's busy. I have another one who I know is known in the U._K.. Also has some level of European fan base and has worked with Algerian before Jessie ware <hes> and she she can she can do UPTEMPO. She can do down tap oh but no one of one of her larger hits in the U._k.. That I think gets used a bunch on the various got talents and X.. Factors Etcetera say you love me is a Collab- with Algerian okay okay. I think she's on one of his songs on divide. It is well. I can't remember but actually credited but she is there a couple artists. I do think that they should the the national final thing hasn't really worked in the last few years so I think they should go for like an internal selection this time around although if they do want to go with like some form of national final vinyl and this is this is the idea that I had take the song land format yet like five or six different artists and have them work with like the aspiring songwriters have like five weeks series of working through those different songs and then the five songs that come out of that process are the song for the national final that way. There's like some sort of long term exposure to the songs instead of like we're going to drop these these like Karaoke tracks on Thursday. Everybody's GonNa vote on them on Monday. By the this would allow for a little bit of buy in but also a little bit of kind of getting into the sausage making process yes and just being like okay. This is where they started. This is where they're going. There could even be like potential to go even farther from that. After whatever national final process says happens okay yeah. We'll get away from the dogs that are currently in their national finals from C._N._N.. I like first drafts. Yeah I would also like to see some some of the artists from past national finals come back. If that's going to be the case like my might Tali quite a bit personality. I'd love to see her like with a better song. I had thought about suggesting them doing what Finland has done the past couple of years even though it hasn't really worked where we've selected the artist here are three to five songs yeah pick one because because that way we have had say you have had say theoretically we both have by on this artist. Yeah I mean on the other hand. I feel like win given a choice the U._k.. Currently just I want to like break things if the nation has decided that that vote for the worst is still a thing from from the American idol era or if we just want to yeah. We're just like the people of the U._k.. Just really want to send in a year after you. I'll make they could probably they do well with send giant giant probably is not busy just like they have like the Christmas number one like what about like having that saw G- be driving granted this year's Christmas number one wouldn't work since it was a cover of we built this city Hud sausage rolls. I like your thinking. They're often lately. They tried to vote up past song that it was released well before the September debt yeah the other thing is that when it has been that it's most often been annexed actor winner so maybe true which is almost often often a cover so if nothing like a strategy that might work for them focusing on the jury's yes like at least for the first half of the scores too just if you really want to just sit in that top part is like right something this juried catnip in stage it is well stated they really have like just dropped. Drop the ball on staging and almost every single year I I already trying to do the writing for the jury and that's by getting these like just syrupy syrupy dogs of like personal empowerment and it's just like their their eurovision entries instead of pop songs that are being submitted to cash Ashley Okay. Let's go back to get get edgier diskette. Everyone Loves Ed. We don't have to put him on stage. Just give them that. That's fine the the other thing is like if they're going to do a national final. They have to make it like must see T._v.. Like you know hype it up. Put out more ads for it because I think the national final was I think on BBC two this year that sounds right and Thursday saw Thursday or Friday they and they really didn't <music> advertise it. It was just kind of their my biggest recommendation just written in large letters in my notes just care yeah. This just came out when you have a songwriting writing industry about things I think it goes back to like you know. Italy came back to contest twenty eleven and Australia joined in Twenty fifteen in both both of those countries. I think have really like put in a lot of effort and made everyone else kind of step up their game and BBC. Just has hasn't gotten a gun along with that. I don't like this season of ironic. Detachment that they've been in is is is well past it sell by maybe in the two thousands but like and just this kind of not caring thing then they need different semifinal commentators. I watched the first semifinal <hes> on the B._B._C. and then I hated it so much a really I do not like violin at all. That's fine but I just keep them away. Keep them away. I actually watched the second semi final on the Swedish feed 'cause I was just like what they don't have to listen to that. Oh Wow same thing with the grand final I was going to watch it on youtube feed but a lot of people were also doing that so in theory quality they don't yeah I don't mind humor in in the in the commentating because for the first semi final this year I was listening to the Icelandic English commentator and he had like a very dry wit that was just delightful throughout some of the commentary. I think the B._B._C. gives out. Sometimes it can be mean yes <unk> but yeah but it wasn't like specifically about the acts. It wasn't specifically about what was being song. It wasn't mean I think if you can you can catch funny commentary but you know just don't be a bully yea like I i. I think it was on the Swedish feed. It might have been the twenty seven it might have been the <hes> Romanian yodelers add on the Swedish feed like after that performances done the commentator just went yep and then went onto the next act like pretty much all you could say so and I feel like we still haven't really scratched the surface on the what all they could do but we've done a lot. It's not working for them. Like that's the problem is that they haven't done other than get Ed Sheeran Yeah. I don't even know why it has to be him specifically. I guess it's just because he has actually said that. The music industry data of who actually purchases CDs does not lie. It's Ed Sheeran I guess number one three and Dan four in the singles chart this week so all right and he has a number one album so there is there is an audience I guess and I twenty eleven. They love Ed Sheeran but you still need to be able to stay. I mean like you can complain about the telephone and whatnot and yes sure televises full full of politics but like you're not going to get a good jury score if you don't give them a complete good package to latch on I'm trying to think of the last entry that they they had were people were like actually moving on the stage and not just like walking dramatically from one mic stands to another Mike stand but like actual dancing or like just some sort of visual interesting component because it is a television show. I mean blue comes to mind but that was very boy bandy so that was almost two years ago. That's that's the other arc so. Are they still together. Can we get them back. Let's not do that I mean I thought I thought the twenty eleven version it was their reunion so that would be backstreets reunited. What seven times now I guess I'll have like mortgages and stuff so <music>? We need something to pay the bills. I don't know maybe one direction can reunite and represent them. I am perceptions of other countries food. Oh man point is just just just care just trying to care. Just try okay. Hey we've we've done it. We have talked all of the Big Five and suggestions will be put into place probably not I mean I could just stand outside the B._B._C. and protest yeah. Please do not lock yourself to their doors on our behalf kicked out of the country so so okay we'll do it for this episode of the Euro. What thanks for listening the your what podcast is hosted by Ben Smith? That's me and Mike mccomb. That's me special. Thanks to our guest this week Helen Helen where can folks find you online well and most active on my twitter at Helen Marie Ninety five. I have a blog that I use periodically article <unk> blog dot wordpress DOT COM and I'm starting up my youtube channel again and that's film Geek five to zero now that I'm out of master's degree I can do more things funny how that works and we will have all of those in the links you can find us on our website at your what dot com and on twitter facebook and instagram the Graham at your what we'd love to hear your questions comments and ideas on how the big five can save themselves. Please please fill our twitter <hes> mentioned column with how will the

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