Hey this is jake and Lauren. Thank you so much for listening to sick. We have a quick favorite ask. We want to learn a little bit more about you our audience so we're conducting a survey it. It only takes a few minutes and it would be really helpful to get your thoughts on the show go to survey nerds dot com slash sick that serving herds dot com slash sick. And thanks. Thanks this episode of sick deals with sexual themes and includes discussion of rape and assault. Just keep that in mind if you have kids around yes. Dr Klein had signed off a little. Bit Yes I do okay I'm getting a real problem with The television ovation stations. The nine the manding that I need them and kill them anything. They want to ask I I can't Asu that it's not fair to me. All this is sick podcast about what goes wrong in the places meant to keep us healthy. I'm Lauren Betas and I'm Jay Harper this season. We're looking at fertility treatment and one Indiana doctors abuse of power on this episode of the walls started to close in around Dr Donald Klein Donald Klein had finally admitted it at a restaurant. Restaurant in Greencastle Indiana. He sat down with Jacobo Ballard and five of her half siblings and he explained to them that in the seventies and eighties he had used his own sperm to impregnate their mothers that admission would eventually lead to law enforcement getting involved but I had to deal with the media. Shortly after the Greencastle in Kassel Meeting Jacoby got back in touch with Angela. Denote an anchor at the Indianapolis TV station. Fox fifty nine. Angela had already produced a piece about the siblings finding each other other through. DNA testing but at the time. There wasn't definitive DNA evidence. That Klein was the father so fox fifty nine didn't name him now that he had admitted it. The Angel decided to do a second story. She reached back out to Klein. Who didn't want to be exposed so in an attempt to head off the story Klein called hold to Koba he called her landline? She put him on speaker and see recorded the conversation with her iphone. They're trying to improve their weightings and Has got real problems. My wife considered this adultery. donated my sample and COMES OUT I think after fifty seven years together In my marriage you won't be over You I mean they're finding out who their biological father there was had thrown Jacoby and her siblings lives into turmoil. She told Klein that. The revelation had strained relationships and caused them to question who they were and how they came into the world in response Klein lighter again. There were certain Off I did donor insemination Sean over hundreds of people and I only donated my own Sam. Hey maybe nine or ten times not true we now no no. There are more than sixty siblings and counting. It had to do with what typing it had to do. Physical characteristics and also also not true as we said in the last episode clients. Explanation about blood. Type didn't add up and though he promised to find donors who looked like his patients husbands climbed didn't look I like many of them at the time If there was no sperm banks that I could wait for a couple of to you and again not true by the late eighties more than one. Hundred sperm banks were open across the country. During the call. Klein returns to a point he had made it the Greencastle the dinner that God allowed him to do what he did. I met with you all and I what I did was I talked and got to meet Some really lovely people and I'm thinking well I know. Oh this is a mess right now but what they even be here And you know. I know that nothing happens. Addition God allow a See and I think that's where problem is. I don't think that God should have allowed it in the first replacing. I really think that we ask ourselves everyday. Why are we here? I think a lot of our problems. Yeah well you know I. I mentioned one of my favorite Scriptures Swiss Jeremiah. One Five If you'll remember it says before I formed you in your mother's womb I knew you Yeah and and that tells me. Yeah they should tell everybody that no one is born as a mistake went back and forth for another ten minutes after that and one point in the conversation client seem to realize that he wasn't winning Jacobo over. She wasn't going to intervene to kill the story. He tried a different approach. Well carry It sounds to me like you're trying to do harm to me now. I don't ever wish I wish that upon anybody. I haven't I just going to hurt badly. None of us are are mean people and and we don't wish harm upon anyone telling you that way you're coming off you know don't disrespect but I feel like what what you're telling me is to keep my life secret that I am not allowed to know who I am and I need to keep my mouth. Of course I just. That's that's very hurtful to me. Only if I am going to turn out. Well I don't understand Stan how I am like the person in this that I it's been put in my face like it's my fault I don't understand it's your fault because I don't care who you Kale. It's just putting it on television for the entire world. Well I I cannot like I said I can't stop that I can't be you. Can I stopped talking to her and share. You know I just don't WanNA share anymore. I'm really tired from work so I'm GonNa Sleep on this and if you want me to give you a call backer all right okay thank you. You have a good day allow Jacobo decided she wasn't going to keep quiet. Neither was Angela. Note the reporter at Fox fifty nine like any responsible journalist. She wanted to get client side of the story. We're in an e mail. She proposed a meeting. Do you want to sit down and talk to me and tell me why you did what you did. And she said that he would meet me with cameras. Kleinman Angela at a Pinero near the TV station and he again admitted what he had done but he asked her not to do the story. I've never had anything in my eh bones out you. That's not who I am so I did feel I don't want it again. I kept going but I'm not the reason I it's not. You made this choice. You did this you are now in this predicament. Because it's not what I'm doing. Don't make me feel hike on the one that's GonNa brew in Your Life. You chose to do what you did but you still feel as a human. It is in my hands almost and it was. It did not not feel good to me. It wasn't clear what happened. The Klein when Angeles follow up piece came out he definitely did something unethical. But had he done anything illegal. Angela email the Marion County prosecutor's office. We did not mention the doctor's name and our first piece because we didn't feel like we had enough information but now just this week we have learned. The doctor is admitting to donating donating this sperm to all of these unsuspecting parents is this fraud. Is this criminal good questions questions. Short answers but long histories. ooh This is morning edition. I'm Bob Edwards about thirty thousand babies this is NPR broadcast from nineteen ninety-two about a case. That got a lot of attention in the early ninety S. Highly publicized trial Dr C.. So Jacobson and infertility specialists. Who may be the biological father? More than seventy five. The children some legal and medical professionals are calling for more regulation. Jacobson was a successful fertility. Dr Virginia just outside of DC. His nickname was the the baby maker. This is from reporter Jon. Greenberg Story Jacobson's way of dealing with patients often rested on trickery and fraud to some women. He gave injections of hormones. That made them believe they were pregnant when in fact they were not he would even point to a SPEC in an ultrasound image of an empty womb. And say there's junior. These women would go on believing for several weeks that an embryo was developing inside them than Jacobson would tell them that the pregnancy had been lost. He also told patients he would find. Medical residents looks like their husbands to be sperm donors. But that was a trick to Jacobson went to his clinic bathroom masturbated and used his own sperm to inseminate women. The story garnered earn. An international attention became a lifetime. Original movie called seeds of deception Doctor Jacobson. This is a semen sample home of course from today's donor today so I didn't see anyone. There was even a skit about it on Saturday night. Live I remember the day you were conceived. I was in my office. The sports illustrated swimsuit issue would just come out on the cover. What Jacobson Gibson did wasn't as unusual as people might have thought nineteen eighty-seven survey conducted for Congress found that two percent of facility? Doctors admitted to using their own sperm. Take out of every hundred and they were just the ones who admitted years later. More cases are still coming to light. A Texas woman took a DNA test and discovered that her her mother's fertility. Doctor is her biological father. An Idaho doctor is being sued for using his sperm in a mixture with the patient's husband accusations of popped up in Vermont Connecticut and Oregon and outside the US and Canada and the Netherlands. And as we're writing this episode a new case is unfolding in Ohio. So back to Interleukin notes question was using your own sperm criminal. The jury convicted Jacobson not for using his own sperm but for lying to his patients about who the donor was us. Virginia has no regulations that apply to donate at sperm aside from the standard protections available through state medical boards malpractice laws. Jacobson lost his license and was sentenced to five years in prison and a one hundred sixteen thousand dollar fine but he was convicted of fraud and perjury. It's simply wasn't it. Legal for a doctor to an semi patient with his own sperm. Without their knowledge. The same was true in Indiana when Angeles sent that email to the prosecutor's office. US My name. Is Tim Delaney. I May White collar criminal defense attorney with boats in Delaney is a defense attorney in Indianapolis. But that's a recent job change for five of years. He was on the other side of the courtroom. He was a deputy prosecutor for the Marion County. Prosecutor's office he worked in the grand jury division. The grand jury handles its own investigations. The Gatien's within the prosecutor's office and then charges them and tries them. In twenty-six Deputy Prosecutor Delaney got involved in the case of Donald Klein. Line Angel Gannett had brought it to his attention. This is highly unusual case. It is not the typical fair for anyone to investigate a case. Like this in June of two thousand Sixteen Delaney and his colleagues brought in Dakota Jehovah's Mother and another sibling well. The first thing is in the investigation is to see if the underlying allegation is true. It's it's not enough for me to trust a reporter or even her underlying source that the child of Donald Klein we had to I get statements. It's from the witnesses. The three of them submitted to DNA tests and sat down for an interview with Sergeant Carmen Walker. Who was working with Delaney on the case Tinton? I'm here searching Carmen Walker. I'm with Jacobus Ballard and we are talking about Dr Klein case number of Jj Sixteen Dashti revived ashes. To to Jacobo. Took them through. The story told them that Klein had admitted using his own sperm and that the Klein family wanted to keep what happened. A secret. Wanted for me to keep it quiet and I said I'm not keeping this quiet after that interview in July Twenty Sixteen. Investigators drove designs Ville to knock on Klein store. They had a search torrent to get the last piece of the puzzle. Klein's DNA kind of approach the the detectives car and there was no no complaint. Yeah no push back no nothing. He was just very respectful very cooperative. Which is the way you always hope it goes? I think he knew at least insofar as paternity was concerned earned. The JIG was up at that point that there's walking back. Yeah I think he knew done. They swapped his cheek and send all the samples off to a private lab a few weeks later the results came back. The probability that Donald Klein was Jacobus. Father was ninety nine point nine nine nine nine seven percent they had the DNA results they have one side of the story through Jacoby her mom and half sister they didn't in have Klein's take on the situation. I guess you I mean you showed up at his store but did you ever have a conversation with him him was he deposed. Anything can't depose a criminal defendant Fifth Amendment Rights I'll just say that. We had the opportunity to have a conversation in the presence of his lawyers. That was done voluntarily. Obviously I can't really disclose what what was said there. Luckily weekend is August thirtieth. Two Thousand Sixteen. I'm here Sergeant Walker and I'm here with Dr Donald Line I start from the beginning. I guess let's start from the beginning. When did you first I start back on August? Thirtieth two thousand sixteen. Investigators finally had their chance to question. Dr Klein in person is attorneys. Were in the room. And so was Delaney. The surgeon Carmen Walker started with clients. History practicing fertility medicine. Coin detailed how he chose donors who he said were medical residents anti admitted that sometimes he didn't use those donors. I use my sample very sparingly sparingly. Ainley because I was almost always able to use my donors. There's Times did you use your own sample sparingly but keep in mind. We're talking thirty to thirty thirty five years ago and I can't remember all the records have been shredded. Indiana law is such such that After you have not seen the patient for seven years you can discard those that was charts. I have no recollection. It all melts together in my mind doing insemination nations and some were husband somewhere. Donor rarely does mine. Jacoby had told Sergeant Walker that when Klein used his own sperm. He made a mark on the patient's chart so Sergeant Walker pushed Klein to respond to that claim. and You keep track of symbols that you don't eat it and there were eye did. There's Gold Stars on the folders or no I'm sorry I did write a star with Mike Pin on the the inside of the chart. I did that primarily to if the couple ever came back wanting another child wild wanted me to use the same donor. I know a thirty to thirty five years ago. I know I was I I. They had done it. It wasn't my first choice or second choice or third choice to do that. But when these couples came to me they were absolute desperate and I was thorough last hope. Did you think it was wrong. At the time I mean and ethically as infertility doctor you are donating their own sperm to There was no law. I don't know if there's along now but I don't think there is. You think the mothers would have been okay knowing. Their doctor used his own temple to well. I don't no no. I didn't feel like I was cheating. I I just felt like I was helping them and I I did not. She wanted to be pregnant. And and as far as I know all the insemination that I did with my sample again sparingly Had A healthy. So they had come in for me to do donor insemination and they wanted a healthy baby. And that's exactly what the interview lasted for a little over an hour toward the end clients lawyers prompted him to also talk about his work in Egg. Freezing and about the couple's he had helped over his long career. I tell you these things because I don't want you to think whatever happens today. I don't want you to think that I do this. I did with the insemination. My own sample very blase. was there a sexual connotation to put absolute not. I don't look at these people and consider them to be my trump. I consider them to be their father's joke. Because I'm not there fought when Jacobo found out the results from the DNA tests the prosecutor had ordered that proved definitively. Additionally that Klein was her biological father she already knew that he had admitted it but it still hit her hard. And here it is you. It didn't building up to that point. Did it feel when it was all like satisfying. There's complicated moment. It wasn't satisfied at all if you could put every emotion together besides happiness anger disgust. Sadness All of that. That's why I felt. I felt An inherent queasiness or revulsion bide the underlying act that occurred back in nineteen seventy nine or nineteen eighty But but I recognized immediately that it would be a challenge to be prosecuted. A case of this kind. This is Tim Delaney again. Just like seasonal Jacobson Klein used his own sperm but Delaney told US clients case was not as easy to prosecute there was no state or federal law. That said it was illegal for a doctor to do. What kind did to use his own semen? To impregnate a patient so delaney would have to find a criminal statute something in Indiana's laws that would apply Jacobin. Her siblings thought this is fraught. Klein deceived his patients. He promised them something mainly anonymous donor. Sperm and any gave them something else entirely but Delaney says. That's not a real thing. I've explained this a number of times to people. Involved here there there is no statute it under any law called Fraud Jacobin. Her siblings had other ideas though and she remembers discussing them with Delaney. The like my mom had been raped and you know your imagination and so I sit there and I think of my mom being in this room and the stock trader who is my grandparents age and Him going in the room in examining my mother and leaving and then coming back. I mean it's just a lot of people think of rape is like forceful and even as a woman you've i. I thought that until this happened. It's Outta rape. Can you explain. Why did it's just not? I mean rape requires a sexual actual act. That's perpetrated on the victim in this situation. This was a clinical act. The Sexual Act was divorced from the actual act to which you know they gave consent for medical procedure itself. it it simply isn't rape. They didn't consent just because the woman says Yes to one man that doesn't mean she's saying yes to another he kept saying well it's different. It's different and I said why can't you church with battery. I I know that they had also thrown out the battery by bodily waste as a potential charge the typical battery by wastes spitting on a cop for there battery as the Act has to be done in a rude insulin or angry manner he may have been grossly unethical when he did what he did but he wasn't angry angry at them. He wasn't being rude to them. He wasn't being insolent. He was doing his job in a way that I personally feel was reckless and and unethical. But that's what the statute says couldn't prosecute him for fraud compress cannon for Fried for Ray for battery for assault and about Delaney says. None of those ideas quite worked. They just didn't apply neatly decline case. They talked about deception. Ah Theft but pursuing. Those charges would have been difficult. One reason that client case was just complicated. You do hear from some members of the community that say hey they asked for an anonymous donor. They received an anonymous donor. They asked for Dr the got doctor. What's the problem now? You get the complete polar opposite reaction from some people. There's a interesting philosophical debate from a prosecutorial standpoint. That's a nightmare because because I know that if I've got twelve jurors sitting there in a room deliberating some subset of that jury is going to say they got what they wanted. What's the problem? And all it takes is that dissension within the jury and we're GONNA end up with without a guilty and that's not to say. I agree with that result. In fact I disagree disagree with that result. But you have to think about these things. The other major issue was the passage of time. Seasonal Jacobson was prosecuted shortly after. His Crimes Klein got decades after he deceived his patients his office to destroy the documents. And think about it if we if if you were. We're to charge any crime that had been committed in nineteen seventy nine in two thousand sixteen any defense attorney worth their salt would depose you and say. What color shirt was he wearing that day day? What did he say to you? Don't vague outlines what he said you tell me the exact words. He said what he was going to. What sample he was going to bring this round? And you'd have to say I don't remember and even if there were crystal clear eyewitness accounts of what happened the statute of limitations for theft and deception had passed Delaney. Just didn't see a way forward with any charges. Except for one on September. Ninth Two Thousand Sixteen Delaney and his team charged Dr Donald Klein with with a crime. His name finally hit the news. Dr Donald Klein seen here leaving court is her biological father. Women Turn to Dr Donald Donald Klein for fraternity treatment. Dr Klein admitted finally after all this time yes he did donate his own sperm at the question now is how many children are out there where the case was far from over. That's coming up on sick. I was scared I did not tell me Sick is a production of Wfan side effects public media and PR X.. Support from the corporation for Public Broadcasting Private Corporation funded by the American people is episode was reported and produced by Jake Harper. Lauren beavis additional reporting reporting from Araceli Gomez Diana additional research for this episode. Came from the book the baby maker Fertility Fraud and the fall Dr Cicely Jacobson by Rick Nelson thanks to NPR. And Jon Greenberg who works at now for letting US use his story about seasonal Jacobson or editors Curtis Fox and Dave Rosenthal original channel music by Jordan Munson designed by story or visit our website podcast dot org and find us on facebook and twitter at six podcasts. She likes sued. Please rate US ON APPLE PODCASTS or share with a friend. It really helps. I'm Jay Corporate Name Lauren. Beavis thanks for listening the.