052 Murder on the Orient Express by Agatha Christie
We wanted to read literally every every single one. Yeah very so it's wonderful. Yeah i read the whole thing. Two days harshly because victoria takes longer to read things. I i hope wes anderson as a young child thought to themselves study. He learns the word static. You might historical fiction dragon. Welcome to book club with julia. We are two roommates and friends since icicle who read a book entitled each episode this episode. We're talking about murder on the orient express by agatha christie. Now if you haven't read the book yet please pause the reading comeback. Because they will be major. Spoilers were w where the ending with a detective novel. It's not really. i guess. Spoilers lots of spoilers. So you've been warned. Don't sue in here. We go would like to dedicate this episode to instacart shopper today. Who brought me cherry pie filling. Even though i didn't order it that shopper. No i had to pikers pillsbury. Pipe crests sitting. In my french. And i was looking at them being. Like what am i gonna make with that. I bought those on a whim and sure enough. The instagram Goddess brought in from your pie. That's been part of my day. This episode is also dedicated to punching bags coming specific punching bag which we have set up in our basement and we filled up with an. We put a yoga down. We cleaned the whole area. We like put velcro on the walls and It's an amazing little space. And i just put my jams on and punch and kick the hell out of it and i use it for the first time last night and it was most satisfied. I felt in a very long time. And i'm very excited to get all my frustrations with this year out of my system. So i would like to thank the punching bag for all of its love and support in these trying times during these trying times so murder. Let's get into murder murder. We love a good trulia. Yeah i christie's been lingering on the edges of our to read on the podcast list for literally the beginning since the beginning. Yes and we're finally here. How do i am so excited. I didn't realize just how excited i was until yesterday when i started preparing for this episode and i suddenly i could just feel the excitement building within me because i realized that agatha christie was like a special interest of mine when i was little and i had no outlet for it like no one would listen to me talk about it and i was like you have to listen. Allied like no like no one had read them. It was super weird. That i was into it and so yeah so i'm very excited. I'm ready you're ready to talk you our yes. Everyone has certain. I mean they can always leave but like you have to listen to me but i'm here for. What was your experience reading murder on orient express if you remember the first time that's cool if not all the time since you've watched it yes so unfortunately i actually watched one of the film adaptations. I think when. I was like nine or ten years old like i was very young but it was when netflix's had the just started and my mom. This particular adaptation. It's one of the original ones from seventy was the first film adaptation. That was probably the one. And it's one of my mom's favorite movies and she loved these books and so she. Yeah that was one of the first thing she ordered. Netflix flicks preston watch. Was that film back when you ordered things on netflix. Yeah we yeah. I mean get into it more. I that my main memory of netflix is agatha christie. Shows so when i think it was funny because we watched them but my mom didn't let me read them for some reason until i was a little bit older so i think it was like in middle school when i started reading the books and the first one i read was the blue train i think and then i i read this one probably second or third because i was like well i know how it ends so i'm not that interested in reading it but i still wanted to because like you know. I wanted to see how it got put together. You know what. I mean. Like i i wanted to see and i really fallen in love with a writing style and everything i i wanted to sort of see the details of it more and So i really enjoyed it i. It's probably not my favorite one to read though it's really fun to talk about. It's really iconic. But it's maybe a little too mainstream. i don't know it's it's a little more simple reviewing it this week i realized like it's really straightforward whereas a lot of her other books are a bit more social a bit more twists and turns a bit more. Like more time passes more happens. I just really love agatha christie's voice. And so i will pretty much read anything. She rates so Yeah that's my. My main memory of reading. The book was kind of surprised at how different it was from some of her others. So yeah about you. You reread it recently. Yeah i was trying to remember the timeline of all these events. But i'm pretty sure happen was the library near me when i was in high school. They would you use book sales and It was at the age. I couldn't drive or have a car. But i could bikes places on my summer. Getaway was going to the library especially when they have the use book sales in. Just load up on things and if you listen back to our I don't know probably minnesota wasn't your shelves as well as other episodes are talking about. How like i went through a phase. Oh readers read these. Because usually when i was picking up at the spook sale was a ton of classics is set of probably like twelve agatha christie novels. I've heard this name pick. Ultra about jobs. And i don't i honestly couldn't tell you which ones i i or which order i think i read all of them between high school and college but all of them are very much like sit down and read them in pretty much a day. Maybe two and that's why we don't have much memory of the ms visit was just like one big gulp of just be like let me get away for a bit. And then Yeah but murder on orient express. Actually the copy. We have here at the apartment. Is my brother jeffries. No i do remember reading this one. Because i was home it was post college and i followed him to see my parents and i had finished reading the book i brought with me and i needed something. Read on the plane ride back and so i was just browsing jeffrey bookshelf. 'cause most of my books were here in chicago and she had a copy of murder in the line express and i still have it. And i'm sorry jeffords. I was going to say i didn't realize your brothers because we've had it for so long it's been a long time So again i read this like on one plane ride mal at once and when we were like y'all stupid episode or for the company episode of the podcast was held to review it and then i was like i second. I don't remember remember it. I think it's something where like the murder was someone else might like all in the family. I don't know something like literally. Besides the fact that they're train which is obvious in the title and the cover. I had very little idea. Look ahead says a really enjoyable read. I highly recommend have reading a mesia and never being able to remember plot details because amaze me detective stories super time and time again. Yeah she literally came downstairs when she finished it and she was like julia they were all in on it and i was like. Oh god what is one of my favorite qualities about you. That i've learned while doing this podcast. Because it makes your pleasantly surprised by everything. And it's really endearing and i that's that's one for it so we just enjoy the novels sarah breeze to read. And it's fun to like. Try to pull apart the details. I mean i'll be miserable Being second revealed there was things. I remember like as soon as clue was discovered i was a member. This was like to throw them off. The trail real clue. And from the get-go i know like mary. Devon heavens the most like one of the most suspicious characters little time. Yeah but as soon as we meet here right. She's the one she's one of them. Who did it. what was something else. Yeah all them virtually all of them. Yes yeah oh man yeah. Mary debenham super sess. From from the get-go yeah well like you said the her books are just. They're just a wonderful lake. Lazy saturday afternoon. I'm going to read a murder mystery and you just read it all at once and you promptly forget it and you know it just like it. They just feel so good. And it's funny that it's books about murder that make you feel really good. But for some reason something about her style and her at the characters and everything it just feels very cozy. And i feel like maybe because feel so far removed. You know like i don't travel by train in like a first class coach shin. I'd never been to At the time of the novel is set in yugoslavia but I been to serbia. Croatia like not. There's not much here that is relevant. My experience in person who dies is not like some sad victim. Who's in the bronx three times. Terrible person and sarah read murders like this. It's just really fascinating. That's kind of like the angle which anoma marin like structure and how this book works like it's more about like perot and how his mind works piecing together the details that like really scary moments or vicious characters or like. I don't know we talk about gillian. Flynn her novel home. She's author of gone girl and sharp objects and The last one is also the author of dark places. Dark places is one that like. I only recommend slightly because like it's show dark and it also feels so like. Oh my gosh. This could be like someone. I know about on care about like that is like hits closer to home. Enjoying funds not was always sat in the midwest to like twenty thirty something year old women. And i'm just like i can't i can't on the second hand i'm like in the grips of for awhile. I mean there's some kind of out there parts to those as well but I don't know that's my comparison. Modern murder mystery feels very different than christie. These in like this came out in the nineteen thirties. Yeah it's like right after world war. One like upper middle class england like often in like the countryside like it's yeah definitely very far removed from our experience and it's yeah the way she frames it is. It's like a social puzzle. It's very rarely like scary. It's just like a peculiar man sitting on a chair talking to people and thinking very hard. And that's the a chapter. Called perot sits and thinks a lot of action in this story whether you are casual reader or total book fiend for seventy joined us for this episode of book club with julia in victoria. 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But yeah so as i as we have alluded to this book follows a very classic sort of three part a structure that you often see in mysteries where you have sort of the setup of putting all the characters into place and then the murder and that's what sort of kicks off the second piece which is where you know the detective interviews all each of the characters involved in this case all the passengers on the first class Coach of the train and then big reveal at the end where the solution is presented. And so in the in this case the setup is you have air cool air q. Auto a little belgian man who lives in europe and he's a guy who lives in england normally in london. He's famous detective. Who's their particular about his mustaches. And he was just helping out the french troops in syria. Believe solve the mystery and he's on his way back to london and he gets on a train and sort of is shuffled around and he's really not supposed to be on this train but he meets his friend and it's this whole thing and so he's in a place where he is expected to be. And there's all these peculiar characters rights you set up your sort of these twelve people and they all have come from different backgrounds. Different ages different occupations social status accents. Whatever and so you get this sort of classic kind of cast and he you know you're sort of introduced to everyone through paros is and then this horrid american man who like even though you don't know what he's done yet you just know he's a terrible person because he's american which is very funny. You get a bad a bad feeling about him And he gets murdered and then poro the train gets stuck the night of the murder in a snowdrift and so then poro sort of takes over the dining cabin and interviews everyone one by one and then at the end and he sort of gives them a little tests and you sort of learn about secret identities and it's got all the like classic sort of murder mystery tropes and i would argue creates a lot of them so that sort of the plot. Oh and then you know you find out at the end that literally every character you meet was in on it except caro's friend like the conductor your conductor even the train dude who is like an on all the meetings and everything with zero and his friend. Yeah like every single person. has some other identity from the past and they're sort of taking out their revenge on this man who murdered a little girl and extorted them for money and but was acquitted because he had mob connections or something what's implied and so they take their revenge on some technicality. The yeah yeah yeah Also we find out like all the passengers on this train have been working together yet. They used to work for the family of the or related to the family of on the little girl. That was murdered america. This has happened a couple of years prior if you are familiar with like the charles lindbergh case yes. That's what. I was kind of alludes to that. It's kind of like Agatha christie's like that's fascinating. What if we envision it this way. Yeah so it's not actually the lindbergh way. It's called the armstrong family in the novel but was pretty similar area Really really sad situation. And so They've been like colluding together to pull off this murder embarrassing bolic of like twelve people under jurors over them to what's actually thirteen passengers Though the sister the sister of the mother of the child so the child to aunt she does not participate in the her husband stands at her place now each of them one by one stab mhm drugged punches. You yeah you would think the minute they say there are twelve stab wounds you go. That's a lot of stab wounds. That's like the exact number of passengers on this train. Number of stab wounds particularly weirdly. Also it's like oh there's ten right handed and left handed like nuts unaware they divide up like how does this down and at is super complicated until it's literally like the most like perot lays out. It could be this. It could be sown on the chain. The of the murder laughed. No one ever knows. Or it's just really elaborate thing. Yeah and then at the end when it comes out everyone agrees like we'll just tell the police when they get here. It was the first thing. Yeah everyone walks away in. That's that's well. Yeah that's the thing. This is one of the few books where like ever like they get away with it. Like poro figures it out but because he has compassion for them and basically they were operating in place of what the you know. Justice system was supposed to do. He says you know what. It's okay like wool. there's you put the evidence in place for an alternative theory. That's what we'll give cops and everything. But i think skimming back through it when they first find the body and they're like trying to puzzle through all the clues it looks really obvious like part of me is like when she was writing this was she was like. Oh no they'll figure it out too quickly. There's no way. I can get away with this. Because i'm like this is so there's twelve stab wounds. Each one a different spot a different depth a different strength. Some of them are left handed like some of them are obviously very weak. So their first theory is that there's like two people one of them's a man one of them's a woman. One of 'em's rain and one of them's left-handed but even that doesn't quite work and but it it's so funny to me that our brains don't like win presented with the like pretty clear evidence. We jump on things that aren't that important and ignore the most obvious explanation. I guess and i find that really fascinating like sort of watch. I like washing my own thought process in a weird way where like when i'm reading a murder mystery and i'm like my brain wants me to think this you know in like i'm really attached to this clue and i put a lot of meaning on this for no reason and we sort of get things. All jumbled typically if the author does a good job the right answer is very simple and very clear It's just all the other noise is figuring out what is noise and what is you know straightforward so. I was really fascinating. We have the two. The friend of perot is actually the owner owner question. Mark the manager overseer of the whole train company And he is catching the train. Back to I think he's on his way to france. is his found nation and So he gets pulled into it in your book yes. He was not really accounted for in the on the regional. Planning groups have the The person who managed still company the aboard manned the we also have a doctor who was in a different car. The trained by conveniently. There's a doctor who can come in like a time of death sin in help investigation and we have both of them standing in kind of as the reader but also really annoying. yeah because they. They're really they're really dumb they just want to jump onto the most obvious explanation is like oh doesn't italian on board. He must be front. He's from america he's probably from chicago. He's probably a mobster dancer. That's the answer. It's the italian is really would talk to him yet. Yeah pardon me is also like not oh chicago. But i'm like okay this time in the nineteen twenties yet. yeah -talian man from chicago. You're in like you someone who was in the mob and if you weren't in it yourself yeah so we have those characters kind of jumping in and being like oh. It must be a woman being. Is this strong enough for me. to do. Stabbing is is not the english way is not their mo like had. They're so much cultural stereotyping Mainly like it's kind of exposes like well that's problematic. That's not the solution here. Not the answer to jump to conclusions. Though i mean we'll get into agatha christie as a person in a writer but no like she is a white upper middle class a british woman in the early twentieth century on her. Reading is not frightening of problematic. Stereotypes india is some other novels to have some questionable race discussions or lack thereof. Em but it is interesting that she's kind of like exposing the Can't think of his title but measure book and the doctor in there like prejudices Like their need to just have an answer. Though in reflection. I realized in a very very unrelated case today the mysterious case of the two packages i ordered that never arrived Almost like they must have been stolen. I had two packages both say they arrived on friday. One from usps one from ups. Neither of them actually are on my front porch. Someone must have stolen them. And i'm like okay. I was venting earlier this morning when i was realizing these packages were lost and like. Maybe it's a coincidence. You know there might be other explanations Someone stole them. And i'm like. I just wanted to believe someone stole them and the and the answer because i need answered along with my day and i literally thought student i like. I'm being the doctorate now. I've let me find some things to blame on. So i can feel like even though i still have to do the same work reporting the incident and be like. Hey mike. Actress never came but like to have that internal belief they were may feel more threatened about it in a way then just like yeah now really anything. Investigation of man. Yeah like one of the one of the things. I love about puerto a character. I mean he's so particular and like very fussy and you know like you. He's not like a ray of sunshine but he The way that he observes people is like. It's he's never the one stereotyping people if he does. He corrects himself later. He realizes that he was being prejudiced or something like he. He like if you watched the way that he observes mary debenham at the beginning right. And he isn't looking at her race or her class or her gender. I and making assumptions. He looks at her mannerisms and the way she talks and her Her the way she interacts with other people in her self assuredness and her stoicism and the way she emotes and like the way that she sort of moves like he he comes to the conclusion. Like oh this is a woman who's probably works. She's very self assured. She's very good at traveling. You know like she can take care of. That's his assessment of her And has no thoughts about like what her job is or you know who her class like. He doesn't like look at the italian man and go mob you like his counterparts his watson's if you will and i really enjoy that about the him because it's ardley revolutionary in a way. The for these books that were written in the nineteen thirties to have a character. Who's a bit of an outsider And he often gets a lot of hate like he'll have british people calling him. British people have a racial slur for the french and Not the most people would care or know that but so that they'll call him that then he'll be like i'm not french. I'm belgian He's from like the french part of belgium. And he. yeah he's like very very much an outsider everywhere he goes and he sort of spends all his energy studying people and he sees like people's character more than he sees. They're sort of external. Trappings if you were and widow. Mary devon he'd like he recognizes her inconsistency herself announcement off more than like oh that's the way englishwoman are but he sees that she's like panicked when they weren't gonna. They were delayed on. He happened to be traveling on a train with her Into what is now That train was delayed slightly like ten minutes navy and she liked panic. I have to make my connection. And then later when they're on the orient express. they've all to other trains. She's a coolest cucumber when they get stuck in the snow storm with snow bank and can't move for her too. She's like oh like that. Is life like whatever making when we make it and he's like but you just like panicking lays ago when we didn't we almost make this chain but now we're here and you're not yet Ho said this was the destination not wherever you're going right. And so that's like his one moment unlocking the case but then also like is his own skill. A character is like like you were saying like analyzing understanding how a person operates and trying to remove that lens of prejudice external parts of them when you can see and he's so observant of who she is the person even before she was of interest to when she was just another person troubling he was able to then recognize like with things didn't line up with With herself well. Yeah and i mean this is a great example because you have all these characters like this sort of eclectic cast rate and they all have like a persona that like kind of performance you know they all have this new job or new marriage or new like they all live in a different country. Now you know what i mean like the they they have this sort of outer layer of like i am a military man or i am. I mean. there's one the mother or the grandmother who like an actress. She puts on like this whole show of being a housekeeper from america. Or the countess like she. She's like married. This man has a new title. Has a new nationality like everyone is sort of putting on this outer shell because they're trying to make it seem like they don't know each other they have no connection give themselves a back story for why they're there and where they're going and whatever and koro is the only one who can see through all that bullshit you he's like and looks at their character As a human being. And yeah. I think i mean it's particularly important in this story. You know where there's so much emphasis put on the false clues and the false narrative and the false persona of each of these people that he has to sort of fish through but yeah. That's kind of a theme you see throughout her work is like you know. I think a lot of the genre besides like sherlock holmes basically a lot of like mysteries of her. Contemporaries were very much in the stereotypes. Didn't really get much deeper. You know we don't know their names or read them anymore exactly because it you don't connect you it as a human being. You're you're like well. I'm not that facade. So what does it matter. You know but these you can read it and like. I'm nothing like this person outside. But i perfectly understand their struggle on the inside and i think that's what makes this book so fun is. You're sort of peeling back all the layers on each of these characters and it's really a character study in away because so little is happening otherwise yearning. They're literally got on a train like they're just sitting in a train car talking like that is the whole book. It's the bulk of the book. So how do you make that interesting. You know they're not sort of like a hardboiled detective novels or something. There's a lot of like running around and guns and jumping over fences. And what have you and you know this is like sitting in a room talking but peeling back the subterfuge of you know. Who are these people really. Yeah it's even more simple than most of her books like most of her books have a little more going on. You know it's like poro is happens to be in the space or he's been invited there for some reason Sometimes he's called in after the murder happens sometimes he's already there. Sometimes his friend is there and is like hey. We need a detective but the bulk of the narrative is him like hanging out with rich people and they go. They do things. They have activities like people's daily lives sort of continues on after the funeral. All and he's just sort of in their space talking to them and news quietly through everything and observing. And so there's a bit more action you know in a bit less poro sits and thinks you know And then at the end all of a sudden there's this reveal and you're like oh my gosh i never would have seen it coming but this one is very very barebones leg and the the way. The book is outlined. It literally tells you like there's a chapter called the murder. A murder is occurring right now and get the title on. The orient express is a murder berry. Here we go and the yeah and like you know. There's there's like three sections of the book for each of the stages of detective novel so kind of exactly it and maybe it works because it had never been outlined like that before but and so she was the first one to be like. Hey this is the structure of mystery novel. Here you go. Here's her inspiration. Here was via reading some notes on like you know. She had travelled by train to these places the orient express and had experience getting stuck in the snow and whatnot but So if she was just like sitting thinking like could a murder happened here down or if she sat down from a more maybe structural perspective. Of like i'm going to challenge myself to nears interesting these abols let me try something different. I'm curious like how that all unfolded for because it could almost be a play like this could very easily be a play because there's one setting there's a very limited cast of characters you know like the whole like second act. You wouldn't even have to change rooms or turn the lights off like you chips and it could be one of those plays where it's just like one long scene for an hour or something you know but you know obviously a bit longer. The kind of. I don't know it kind of feels like a play where it's like we are in act two But yeah i. I am very curious. What her like if it started with the conceit sort of you know you wanna talk about. Agatha christie was an english author who was born named agatha. Mary clear miller than eighteen. Ninety two upper middle class family She was the youngest of three but she was much younger than her older siblings. So she's at home by herself in was home which was unusual for the time. According to the two sources i read. Don't really schooling was unusual. I don't know didn't seem that unusual to me For women. I well i Maybe for her class like not being upper cost the upper middle class She spent some time in france as when she's around five by her father died not too long afterwards. He series of heart attacks when she was eleven fairly had already had some money. Issues is actually one of the reasons. They moved to france to rent out their family home And after her father's passing money and she just kind of continued for her and her mother at twenty. She moved to cairo with her mom. They live around marie months of like kicked off some of her Social interactions and was able to make other british funds there who are just to join their social scene when she came back to england in nineteen twelve archie christie who. She married two years later in nineteen fourteen. He immediately went back to where we're one. He was in france as part of the royal flying corps and she worked at a hospital red cross hospital during this time and she specifically worked in the dispensary. And that's where she got her knowledge of poisons i'm naturally influenced her writing and she started writing when she was around eighteen short stories but it was a after her marriage into a little bit older author. She got married. That poor perot was born as a character and her first book a while to right end to publish like many authors feel everyone. They pitched six times when people turned down in finding someone said yes and everyone else is sad for it. yeah Her first book mysterious affair of styles came out in nineteen twenty and going back to the about poisons. I haven't read that one. But apparently poison poisons are part of the storyline there. It was reviewed in the pharmaceutical journal around. This time is also in her daughter. Roseland was born so when her first book was published the publishers liked it so much. They immediately contacted her for five more as she continues to write. And in nineteen twenty two. She had an opportunity through her husband's boss to go on a world tour. Basically and promote the british empire exhibition Would happen in nineteen twenty four. So if you know like the world's fair in the us kind of like that but it was like britain mainly look at our massive empire in such promote that they traveled to places like cape town and hawaii and random factor. If i'm agatha christie is that she was likely one of the first if not the first british woman to stand up on a surfboard. Random saying you know. Women didn't do activities like that in the brownies like being in public much less like go surfing. Ambush learned to surf in cape town and read about in her autobiography Her experiences surfing. Hawaii has like a fun. Tidbit found Unfortunately 1926 her mother passed away in this kind of like a crisis moment for her her husband was away on business and when he came back. He's like oh. By the way i fell in love with someone else. They've been having an affair with one of our family friends and so she's like flake full meltdown. Having problems and this incident where she goes missing for eleven days Everyone's looking for her in the media. This point she's a prolific author Christie and chief is found like two hundred miles away Staying in a spa resort town under a different name claiming that she was from south africa and is really mysterious and she never writes about it in her autobiography in your dressing. Anyway of ethically like not remember what happened others luxuries in a car accident in hyde. Like a a type of ninja. She the cognizant what she's doing she bipolar like. There's a lot of series. I'm there of what actually happened So eventually her and her husband divorce and in nineteen twenty eight. She takes her first on orient express. she was tobacco and She has a great time. There gets to know. Some archaeologists like only agatha christie honest with like casually meeting archaeologists. Yeah i'm she goes out another time in meets max. Malla one who she later marries And and she spends much of her life travelling back and forth between his archaeological digs and their home in england with her family. Her daughter has child so that she becomes a grandmother in. It's lovely all in all. She writes sixty six detective novels. Yucky and ford story collections. And she also had the longest continuous running play on west. End the mouse around two nine hundred and fifty two and did not close until march of this year due to the pandemic. so thank you for britain. That crazy streak almost would have hit fifty. Just five that a continuously running Yeah mine Saw the mousetrap when she traveled to england in like that eighty years and then wasn't the eighties seventies eighties and then when she came to visit me at the end of my study abroad and we were walking around. She's like oh the bow strap and she was like. Wow it's still running. So the ah. That was when. I was introduced. Oh my gosh. it's been like twenty some years more twenty thirty years nestle running. I didn't realize it was fifty forty eight years while she altogether has sold more than one billion copies of her books and another another billion in generation while he is said to be the most most read. Arthur after the bible and shakespeare that does not surprise me in the slightest they. I think they publish that on all her books. Now yeah i mean that's quite the claim to yeah man. I mean okay. So her life story makes so much sense because she has like mysteries that take place on airplanes. That take place in egypt shows a few in egypt take place on boats that take place on trains in the middle of the middle east. A lot of them take place in england but she also she's clearly very well traveled because Her even just like her knowledge of people from different countries is pretty impressive. So yeah that makes a lot of sense for like a sushi is yet but she had so much very light experienced advisor. She was traveling to other knows. Jane austen's reading decades before advocacy even born but I think like jane austen novels. That happened in like little towns in england goes anywhere near a sea captain. We don't really speak of their time anywhere else. Besides it just so so much england and also for her character to be belgian is interesting to you like you mentioned some of the british Prejudice against a french in french. Speaking people and One source i was reading and he was actually her like foundation's website or something like that Was saying that when she was working for the red cross hospitals when she likely interacted with belgian refugees. They're kind of inspired that character for her Yeah so it's fascinating Yeah i should say the stat on. The back of the book is the most widely published after shakespeare in the bible which when it comes to stats about books it's pretty nitty gritty but pretty Important to distinguish actually read versus which is published. 'cause there's stories that have been around us oral traditions for way longer than any any agatha christie novels that have been you know more widely right read or listen to over now melania then but i mean she lack like those authors from the modern age. You know what i mean. Like twentieth century on the most read the most published person is a woman it is. It's pretty cool. You know like shakespeare has like two hundred years on her. You know so. It's it's pretty darn cool. I yeah i am the fact that like her books still hold up like yes. There are some problematic racial things more. I think from the perspective of lake. She is very much victorian woman which is like the the height of the british empire and so like the general british The way the way english people talked about other countries in their empire was terrible but for the most part she's like her characters hold up like her even the way she writes. Women is very admirable for someone in the nineteen thirties. You know like she Brealey gives women a lot of credit. And they you know it makes sense because she had was employed and traveled a lot and had you know probably did a lot more than most women of her time but she didn't mention her. Other perot is one of her main characters but not all these detective novels about him Miss marple is another one of her major characters that reoccurring and she's got others as well. Someone of that aren't part of this either though series and so i think just calling out that like she doesn't just write about women as part of these cases but actually as active detective is pretty cool. Yeah that's one of one of the things i wrote in my notes is i feel like her power as an author is like she really understands the power of people who are ushered in some way you know what i mean. Who like based on their nationality or miss marples and like a spinster. And she's not pretty old woman. She's like in her seventies. I think could. She's the main character of these detective novels. Like the power people who no one gives any credit to their like Will you can be. I'm not intimidated by you. Oh you're you know you even have a line in oran express where they're like He's just somebody foreigner and they don't they don't think he speaks english. They don't take him seriously and with miss marple they're like. Oh she's just a harmless old woman. She's probably a little crazy a little out of it She can't know anything you know. And so don't tell things like the the characters sort of incriminate themselves by revealing too much of themselves to these very astute sort of outsiders and so their practice at like interpreting. People's behavior like the way miss marple solves cases is she understands like she. Notices patterns and people's behavior and social make comparisons to village. Life should be like. Oh well that was just like that one time when mrs so and so tried to give a basket of flowers to this person but this person was secretly really offended by it because they wanted this thing and like even though it's like she finds commonalities in people's motivations and like like human human beings are pretty simple in some ways like the way that we operate and our watson are drives are fairly similar you know sort of the outside stuff is different and social like take something that seems very quaint sort of village quarrel and extrapolate things about human beings and then put them in this new context of this murder and then she'll figure things out and people think she's crazy nothing to do with that. What the hell are you talking about miss marple. And then she figures it out and they're all like what right for people who were loving murder on the orient express. What would you recommend the next. Yes okay so if you really like the englishness of the mystery and less the murder i would recommend pretty much anything by pg wodehouse but specifically Leave it to smith or peace or smith depending on how you want to read that. It's the p. silent if you read the book. It's absolutely hilarious. It's much less serious than an agatha christie book. they're still an element of mystery to it but his books are very very funny and they make fun of upper-class english people if you like the murder part and less the mystery than buzzfeed unsolved is superfund lava good sort of battery retailing of an unsolved case And then if you really like. If you're more into like noir mysteries than i would recommend a veronica mars the tv show the books and the reboot. They're all amazing. I love them to death. So yeah those are mind. I'd recommend just the rest of agatha christie's novels to yeah that'll that'll take you through twenty twenty two yet. Another one that came to mind when we were talking today was miss. Fisher's murder mysteries which is sorry. That was a really dramatic reaction. I just love those show yeah. Julia introduced me to the show along with our friend really back like end of high school. We watching it. I think it only ran for three seasons. It's wonderful i honestly. If you need a place to start in terms of agatha christie's either. I would say read them in order because they sort of go chronologically or one of my favorites is called the willow. God i thank god what is wrong with the take three. If you need a place to start with ariana christie's i would say either go in chronological order or one of my favorites is called the hollow Think that's its new name. But i really really loved that one and then i think also the silent witness is one about it where a dog is the only witness to a murder. This is great. It is great four. Yeah those would be great places to start as well. I already kind of mentioned what. I'm currently obsessed with now that we have are punching back in the basement. Julia used to go kick boxing gym. Well we would go together. I think we actually were both at the same time like ever different schedules. We both went to jim. Enron and opposite of kickboxing in getting back into super fun. Julia in our roommate bought me. These awesome nice wraps from hands in the gloves in natasha. These bad ass Gloves that are like black. But then they have like shiny pink flowers on them is. It's just so mean to have like. Yeah it's a boxing and has flowers very me and now the hang on velcro in our our little workout studio. I'm blessed with everything about it. I can't wait to it up posters. Yeah that's the next step is decorate other thing. I'm into Delaney fischer is a pastor in entrepreneur. Who just started a podcast called efficient auto And if you like things for entrepreneurs or starting around hobby or side thing kinda like we have here with the podcast or just really until efficiency That's really her thing. And one of her episodes like how to get a time back in your day. The full title is something like that generates She's got worksheets. And like how'd you sit in. Thank me flex. Wireless into the podcast. So the air like working on yourself to doing it and made me realize that. I don't like shopping like occasionally like a couple times a year. I enjoy pre covid like going to An outlet mall with my mom. And like we'd have girls day and go shopping but like Rarely enjoy doing that. And i hate like adulting shopping. Like a hate is running errands. I've buying groceries so stressful for me. Like don't do you need to get into it. But i'm really grocery shopping. Stresses me out even go read and just listening to her talk about ways to like thinks what things do not like doing like what ways you can either pay someone else to do it for you or find another work or work with people in your life so like figure out a trade off system. That might work better for you know. I'm an employed adult i can. I guess my frugal mindset was like. I don't want to pay money for other people to do things for me so much joy my life when i dislike. I'm just gonna order from target. Just gonna have instacart the groceries now until forever. I mean never suffered in a grocery store again cited. No more stress. Shopping is kind of my My goal moving forward now as decreasing holiday shopping. We'll see how chew. I can stay to it but for now. Yeah or you just take me and we do it all at once like we didn't grow around into the bunch of yeah a cool okay things. I'm currently obsessed with Finish the crown season four in two days. I'm it was amazing I mean i love the show regardless but it's getting into like the time when the season was like the eighties. The earth the early to mid eighties. And so you're getting. This is like the era of margaret thatcher and diana princess diana and which is stuff that like i know about you know from school or popular culture. We're getting into stuff that is connected to me And they did an incredible job with both of them the casting and the writing and everything and i loved it. Someone please watch it at. Dm me about it. And you'll talk. 'cause i need to share And then i also The podcast i've talked about in here a bazillion times wolf three fifty nine. The writers creators have a new anthology series called scene. It's a fantasy They sort of created their own magical reality That has the fe and but sort of also integrated into our world and magical schools and all that kind of stuff and so each episode is sort of a monologue from a different person. Fun kinds is just thank you so much for listening. If you would like to check out any of the recommendations. We gave as links to other things. He mentioned through the episode. You can find berkeley with jd. Dot com all the show notes. There you can also go along to see what we're reading next and Catch some cool. Means and chile leaves our stories instagram at. Jv a big thing. He's a gregg. Berger sound engineer for making a sound good and creating all of our original music and other big thing you felon for a design. Thank you so much listening had. Us on next episode is happy reading.