45. Guest Lee Wilkof: From Little Shop Of Horrors, Max Headroom, to Hart To Hart, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and beyond!
Webster's dictionary defines working as engaged in work especially for wages or salary and actor actor as one that acts tonight's guests certainly fits that definition who among us could forget his transcendent embodiment of the very essence of civic life as towns person in holy moses for which he was probably given wages or the existential dread he personified urban dehumanisation humanized in the role of screaming man on the subway in the marshall chronicles a series which i assume so redefined television that i never heard of it before today we we'll cover all of this and more because there is much more as director amanda charlton a previous guest on this program to discuss nineteen ninety-one silence of the lambs said in reference reference to our guest. This is what an acting career looks like and our guest is actor director. Lee will cough. Lee welcome <hes> happy to be here. That was chris surprised that that's who got introduced pacino well. They're going to be really surprised he was not in holy. Most remembered always houses. Have you ever heard of it before. I have heard of holy moses. Yes i did not remember member towns person i was actually there was a giant. There was like this huge shadow of a giant. They didn't have the giant giant who's got money. Relieved moved himself on townspeople. Wow and that was the scene okay. Well chris were born to play and then i met me loesch foreman for some movie movie i think it was cuckoo's nest and he said what have you done and i said i just got paid by a giant and i didn't get the how could have been in cuckoo's who is asked that would have been special chris. Did a humorous james lipton intro of you. I'm going to take a couple of minutes here just to do a more serious interview because lee as regular listeners of the pod will know the highest compliment. We can pay an actor whose i._m._d._b. Page we mine for the incredible we'll nuggets and depth and decades of service. You represent this probably better than anyone certainly anyone we've ever had on the pod yeah so we haven't had any hop op. I'm probably the oldest person than you've had on the pod problems not just here league obviously looking at around around line. That's why does back ax so many decades. You are the definition of the working actor lee wilco for those listening. Let's start in the theater. He originated the role of seymour in the original legendary three nine hundred eighty two off broadway production of little shop of horrors and also originated the role of samuel bic in stephen. Sondheim's musical nerd favourite assassins his performance. It's in the one thousand nine hundred nine revival of kiss me. Kate garnered him a tony nomination for featured actor in a musical other broadway credits include sweet charity movie version directed by bob fosse. I believe and my index was directed by botha's he wasn't supposed to he was the supervisor but he came after a week of seeing it and the guy that was directing directing the next day was bringing bob coffee in a while nevertheless and any broad gwen verdon on so to work with both of them how we just. I did all that jazz on the pot a few weeks ago. Lee was also in the front page. She loves me. Michael frayn's democracy breakfast at tiffany's the odd couple and most recently waitress yes. There's about fifteen other ones that i'm leaving their citing highlight elect his tv career spans from late seventy s nationally important television efforts like disco beaver from outer space and the tv version of animal house to nineteen eighty s hour long episode ix my favorites like heart-to-heart hunter scarecrow and mrs king perry mason matlock and enrolls in fascinating lee noteworthy series max headroom cop rock and beverly hills bunce a short-lived hillstreet blues spinoff starring a pre andy sipowicz dennis france the also turned in reliably funny and subtle performances alongside amidst comedy heavyweights like jonathan winters madeline kahn and bob newhart his recent tv credits include include era defining shows like high maintenance and the marvelous mrs mazel his film credits people include sidney lumet's final film before the devil knows you're dead howard stern's private parts school of rock this boy's life and the last seduction director john dolls first feature film kill me again and and lee's own directorial debut at true film yes directorial debut no pay nudity which we're going to discuss today and which i described on our pods instagram as both with a love letter to and cautionary tale about the acting life which stars an excellent cast of pro actors including gabriel byrne francis conroy nathan eighth and lane boyd gaines and germy shameless in an excellent turn as a veterinarian. I'm leaving out dozens of credits here. This is just to give you a taste of what lee has been doing in his career freer since nineteen seventy s and apparently managed to be a husband a father and a beloved friend at the same time which in this business is almost or even more impressive than the credits themselves more than that he seems to be one of those guys who everyone loves and respects any seems to have managed to keep his sanity and his sense of humor along the way lee welcome welcome to full cast and crew. Thank you clearly didn't speak to everybody but no we did. We just cut those those out. Do you have some like cantankerous moments where you've had sharp elbows elbows in it would be hard to be in showbiz for fifty years and not have those moments but you do seem to be one of those guys. Everyone is like oh. I love lee will believe it or not. I was probably at my crankiest doing when they asked. What's the favorite thing you've ever done at least on stage. They assume little shop right little shop was often fraught with drama just her summaries unreason and that's probably where my elbows were if they were sharp at all i was i was cranky and do you think that's because it was something new something that maybe hadn't been done before. Just just everyone was young probably because i didn't get enough attention to natural not nature was it was a was a difficult birth right right and i was at sea. It was really my first musical and luckily the assistant director came to my assistance. It was interestingly. It was a howard ashman his assistant. Her name's connie grappo and i called her. I knew i was in trouble. I was on the cusp. They didn't know what to do with me. It was like about a week before we started our first preview and i called her and little. Did i know that howard ashman said to her. I want you to work with him that same day he said. I want you to work work with les privately. I called her and <hes>. We've been married for thirty five years so she took that direction. She was like all right our today. It's a real calling so it wasn't fun. It was fun doing right but it was not fun rehearsing and it was. I almost got into yeah i did. I did a gun onto it. I'm got into a fistfight with the guy that played mr bush nick. He never liked me. May he rest in peace. I we had a gentleman named michael vale. He was the original mr bush nick and he was the dunkin donuts guy from well now time to make the donuts that's right that lie veil that guy he was great right and he was an actor and a real donor guy he was he had some other campaign he he did not need to do the donut guy then or after after ben during and he didn't wanna do only moved to the orpheum so in a new gentleman came on may he rest in peace. His name was high ends. El and hymie came in he was the only one that was new and he was assigned by a howard assigned connie grappo who is that i was living with author 'cause it was several months after we'd close and <hes> to to work with him to put him into the show and the first thing he said there were autumn work with women and that got help his case. I'm gonna change. It never laughed at his jokes and i do this warm up. I still do it and people tell me to shut up. Sometimes he well that yet and i have been doing it for years. I had i had my first first voice teacher in new york. He had me do that for an hour. That's all i do i. I don't know what the hell to do that. Anyhow i hi me. He told me to shut up one time quit doing that and i said it's not half hour yet and he said you little prick and we aren't. We came this close. Oh soi fingers are very close to each other but generally i'm interesting. I'm <hes> cowardly and i don't throw my weight around and grumble probably at home but i'm not a troublemaker really keep my mouth shut so your recipe for success is to marry the assistant directors at the advice you would give a young actor when possible ways whenever i did a show and then it ended with connie i would i would i would get involved with with like the assistant director of the choreographer because i wanted to know the inside dirt interesting with connie. It wasn't that it was connie. I needed help but it's worthwhile u._s. Firing exercises christie's where you're really needing help help and inside dirt. It's the same thing i've been dating people in a position of power on the shows you've been on i mean you don't know that i haven't i mean sure it didn't work out l. Quite as well and kinds of directors. Well not anymore but she wasn't theater. Director was a theater director. When howard stopped directing little shop he directed the the off broadway and los angeles and london and the national tour and then he handed over to connie and she did the national premieres in australia and south africa and canada and maintained like the national tour and then she went to yale drama school par augustan augustina well-known and she directed for several years regionally an off broadway and ran a theatre company and then about seven or eight years ago she started painting and that's what she does has no more show business for her. She's very happy that spent and i can understand it when she did. There was an out of town. I i don't know if you remember about twelve years ago. Little shop premiered on broadway with hunter foster. Alright and connie directed that out of town in in florida which i played mr bush nick in that one and that got very messy. I think that was the sort of enough well she didn't. It took years to stop but that was like in my mind big time. Show business really never had any interest. She liked working off broadway. <music> out of town right and little shop is coming back. I show coming back. You're you're promoting your posting. You're still in the little shop family. Little shop is coming back off broadway. Okay i played the role in florida and i played mr bush nick. We did it at the kennedy center last year which was really fun and they inquired about my interest unavailability and i <hes> yeah you said no well. I was kind of interested but we're going to indian nepal and it would've cut into that i would have had i said i maybe i'll do it but i need these two weeks off to go to indian paul. 'cause that's pretty yeah. That's that's untouchable as incomes like if i got like like like this for example and i said i'm not really available available. They've moved on okay now. I have to say that's probably part of the secret of success and longevity. I don't know if you had that. Skill your whole life saying no saying no. They usually don't say no but this this india thing. I've been wanting to go to india i this is really just to its sacred. Just the way that you were telling that story i could tell that the answer was that as an actor as well until you get a certain amount of success success which you know i feel you have looking at this very impressive career but as as i said before like every job feels like it could be your last to carve out anything that feels like a real life feels almost like you're putting that at risk blaming it feels that way. I'm gonna be like very candid here. I don't work that much anymore. Certainly not as much as i want to and when something comes along even even though i've done it before yeah it's tempting because i still love to work. If i'd never done little shop before i may have thought of a different but i played the role twice and <hes> it's. I like to do things now because they have some meat on the bone and this is a nice role but not given up this trip. You had the great good for you. The reason we wanted to have you on was to talk about your movie. No pay nudity which diving into your career and your life it seems seems plucked from the headlines of your own experience. How much of the movie is drawn from your experience and how much is drawn from the screenwriters experience. Okay and give us give us. A press. Crisis is that the word chris sure press it up. Is it presses like a quick synopsis a summary or abstract text or speech inch there you go up. I believe i was certainly <hes>. I have lulls all the time i had no. I came up with. It's a story with the idea of being in it. Let me backup. I used to walk into the equity lounge where a lot of the movie takes place the equity lounge. It doesn't really exist the way it does. In the film. The equity lounges now called the audition center but for years up until about six years ago five years ago. It was this place ace. Were actors hung out. I used to go there because <hes> leader. I been i live in brooklyn and i'd go there for literally to take a leak and either way station truckstop for actor that's right. I didn't need to go there to audition because i have an agent but but they had open calls they're they're often so i went there and then there was a period of maybe twelve fifteen years where i hadn't been there and i went back and the same people not same type of of people the exact same people were sitting in the line literally for really yes literally a woman with a dog and a guy with the mustache i mean they were the same people because i i'd i i'd like there'd be people that i took in on and i'd go. They're here all the time. They live here so i said this is a cool idea. This might be a movie. It's a little inside he what the hell so i wrote this treatment and i brought it to ethan sandler who admit at williamstown many years ago him and his wife <hes> <hes> she wasn't his wife then kathryn hahn and i said ethan. Let's write this together will direct it co directed and i'm going to be in. I wanna play the lead lead so we wrote it together and then i don't know how much time passed maybe two years we had lunch one day to talk about the idea of directing it if we could ever get it made and i went to myself isn't gonna work out two of us directing. It just didn't feel right and i said ethan year writer. You're gonna get all the screen in credit. I'm going to direct and by that time. I may have decided that i wouldn't if i'm going to direct it couldn't possibly also be the lead and i just just it didn't feel right all right cut to i went and did <hes> the iceman cometh in chicago but six seven years ago and nathan lane was was playing the lead and all we did in chicago. I thought i was going to see chicago and spend my time going out every day and exploring tocado all i did was rest because the shows five hours long and i i open my computer in there was <hes> nope. It was actually called lounge at at the time and i open it up and i kind of polished. It and i'm gonna back up just a little. It was originally written for an actor. The role that nathan ended up playing lang <hes> his name was shaken. It was written for maury maury and i did. I play together in new york but more he had passed away and i said johnathan would you would you eat this if i if i could get this done i would love for you to did you know nathan before this. I know nathan i knew nathan before even moved here. I met met him. I was at college in cincinnati. There was a young lady that was at c._s._m. Who i had this huge crush on. She left school early. She moved to new new york. I chased her here and she was doing a review called jurors. Earth jeers jay z. Go to high schools. They'd go to high schools or my jurors. Musical michael is still something. I can work on. Those notes really soon okay great. It's really solid. There's just a few okay so she's working on jersey. A jersey the musical it's they did sketches and songs about the history of new jersey play at new jersey. This'll chris's ally take this from jersey. Oh you love the right. She said there's this guy i am. Entities like seventeen is named joe lane. He's amazing and i went to see her. Do it and there was this amazing young man. It was nathan so i met nathan in nineteen eighteen seventy two. Why many years ago is that thirty nine something <hes> thirty seven years ago you say so math is that's say that's already been established. No four thirty seven years ago. I met nathan chris ward. Seven and nathan has over the years thrown. I read that he was doing the iceman cometh and i call them up and i said always wanted to do what he said. What role do you wanna play and like like a schmuck said. I wanna play this. One character will the character. After i played <hes> he was asleep for four hours and forty minutes. That's what do you mean you. It's arrest in chicago actually did falsely auto for fifteen minutes anyhow nason. I you'll read it someday literally. He read it that day. This is great. I said wow nathan and likes it. Maybe maybe i can really get this done and he's reading. What is then amaury shaken role. It's not him. I told him it was written for maury up. He was not in he he he thought it was a great role and he's great in it and then i did kickstarter <hes> did did not raise the money which i know because donated to the starter and i had the email saying how much we were trying to raise four fifty we we raised to seventy very ambitious good when we knew we weren't gonna make it <hes> the woman that was helping me run at her husband at the last minute. He said that he was going to give fifty but he knew he didn't have to because they weren't gonna get on that. Journey raised to twenty made it for two sixty now. So how much did you end making it for. We made it for six. Hundred fifty thousand dollars kickstarter was valuable because i met some people on the kickstarter that introduced me to the people that ended up that being the main financiers got and we made it and <hes> they wanted a name of course we needed a name. There were some people that the at one point point alfred molina was interested but his wife became. Ill and i met with kevin kline who was like vacillating then. I got a list of people will assist or the the morning in the lead for the lien gabriel's name was on it and we got it to gabriel who was a little unlikely because he's he's irish when i hear the name lester rosenthal neha gabriel byrne is the first actor and i think you accept it. I mean i i accept that i just you just accept it. That's why he's carrying the dog in the first scene because basically after that you're on his on his right then when the dog dies whose dog was that that was a show biz dog you really i guess show biz have to get like a dog trainer very first shot in the phil. Yes he's warming up forty fifth street and he he crosses on eighth avenue. I have to say that's the one shot that i like devised. Say that i take it must have been very early in the morning. It was supposed to be at five in the morning. Okay and we were waiting for the dog and the dog wasn't there at five children dogwoods uh-huh upstate what's and she was not there and we're calling her to go out with the as soon as i can. The zebra got loose. She had zebra on her whatever her menagerie lose and she didn't get there till seven thirty and i was not happy because it change. It was supposed to be much i i or were you shooting. In the first nine days. We shot in the facsimile fact simile of the lounge that wasn't in the land wow no the lounge didn't along existed really where we rebuilt it. Literally in three days. We found a location down on wall. Also i thought because it feels very real. Madrid did the actors equity bills right and this looked so modern oh they must have just shot in the modern modern. I had this wonderful machi takeuchi. She was a wonderful production designer opponents on the wall or gray decor the chairs yeah it. It was amazing. Inclined would have been good in the boyd gaines role <hes> i love boyd gaines yeah and i thought boy gains. I thought they were all great addition to people because i didn't know any young in <hes> asian men in amanda show at jiong guessing leon and the african american young man. He's grays on element. He's kind of blown coming up since then. Yes and everybody else was friends. A few people had offered it to but they couldn't do it but i got the old man that's kind of the gatekeeper <hes> <hes> j._r. horn. He's passed away. He <hes> he died shortly. After we shot online he was perfect. He was perfect but he was like my fourth choice and joe gra fosse was not supposed to do it was maloney but he couldn't do it. Sorry joe but i know a lot of people because the mole people liked the script and yeah there's a lot of course and you could tell going back to when you talked about how much nathan lane loved it when reading it you can tell in his performance how much he identifies with that much how much he identifies with the themes of it how much he loves that role there is so much comedy but also real feeling that he invests it with that's coming from a very a real place for him and it's it's wonderful amazing. <hes> i'm really proud of it. It was really fun to shoot not not without its tension never with the actors ever and then post production it just went to shit could just went to hell really editing. There were problems with editing and they didn't like the editing day the my money peter and they want me to do a couple things. There's a scene where nathan anthony is kibitzing with the kid and explaining the beat up. That's based loosely. Apparently charles hit somebody very early in his career and didn't work for several years and joe papp hired him to work at the public cloud and i always love that story because i love charley burning and they wanted me to chop that up and yeah yeah and there's a couple of things i say to people if there's anything that you like don't like it wasn't my idea like there's a shot he goes on my going to cincinnati and then i wanted the next shot to be him sitting in the theater but there's a shot of a plane that drove you crazy crazy so those this kind of things and i went a little bunker mentality and it became it became us versus that bought we got it done sure and we got a distributor peter monterey media who just last week the gentleman that owned monterey media i found out he passed away and they sold it to somebody else and i had a conversation sation with them and they're going to try to revitalize again with d._v._d. So it's out there. We didn't make money back but i'm happy to say there's a thing called a waterfall the ordinary yeah you pay people back in the first thing that i was able to do and the only thing i've been able to do so far is to pay my actors their residuals. I'm really happy about that good for you. Let's let's play clip. Okay chris. What do you think is a good introductory clip for the movie. We were talking about the need lane story. That's a good one to start with because you also get so much about his personality nathan contributed some of the dialogue he kind of rewrote. This is mid twenties. Nth necessity must be strong. Improviser must be able to play the guitar. No pay nudity required. I mean god yes. I remember it well. I'm not saying that won't go to the audition i will. It's absolutely will not young man. Listen to me no matter what color you are. They will shit on you. They will do whatever they can to reinforce the idea that you are a worthless be powerless nc of fucking worthless piece of shit without power but they are wrong. You know how much power you had none a ton. They can't make you do shit stove. I you in a good kid up so all right the never do that shit ever seriously man. Why are you always you. It's a long story. I am going away. I made a very strong choice. One momentous apps too strong and i've been here ever since every morning good morning. Go on please. I was in a play twenty two years ago. I know you would to anyway. I was in splendid play in which i was transcendent. Costa was tragically miscast and worse. He was a lazy prick. Terry proctor remember him. You fucked. It's terry proctor was this lazy. Miscast brick's name and he looked like this really elite anyway. He was infuriatingly lazy. Did i mention that and he consistently fucked up this one wonderful moment where he was supposed to be polishing in a pair of shoes will i wax poetic about a recently deceased. Father was a very simple task and he fucked it up every night. No matter how hard we worked he wouldn't change. You wouldn't listen to are directed to me. I really tried to help him but he was a fucker not opening night he did up again during the curtain call it came out and started waving to someone in the audience grinning wildly <hes> snapped and i punched him in a stupid fucking face and the audience gasped fell to the stage aged and then he tried to get out and i hit him again and then the other actors had to pull told me away and the curtain came down and he brought me up on charges it makes the papers and those are very bad thing uh laziness. I cannot abide laziness easiness but we do requires rigor concentration total dedication. Nothing less you remember that last time i worked damn what makes nathan lane so fucking good. Can you quantify why in the movie populated by other people who are very good at acting nathan in lane has something extra additional to me when i watch him. I don't think it can be but it's a thing it's a thing and i don't think it can be <hes> described is it skill is it innate personality advocates in eight. I think it's great i mean i think it's certainly that doesn't come from just he works on it but it's just ie's very complicated man. I know him a long time. I just think he he just has the gift the gift that inexplicable and yet at the same time. It's not something totally raw as you said i'm sure he works on it. <hes> and this is one of the reasons why the scene gene so much besides the whole punching out the idea that acting takes rigor and concentration and that that it is something other than just standing there and either looking good or juice. It's a profession profession. That's looked down upon a lot of ways or at least not taken very seriously so i think that the only by directors there at hand the general over the years that i want to remind you how hard they worked or talked about it or write the show you while they're doing it hard. They work but i was younger. I remember we get high and talk about acting and done that for years enough. It gets ingrained like he's comfortable. Nathan that i have ever had that conversation never occurred to me. I take it for granted with him and what's nathan's look based. Don here. Look is based on even though i've never watched. An episode is his name george martin yes short shorts doing george. Martin chris called. That's i just like the way the guy look. Can i said blood stress. I'm like that. I had never seen him. I didn't know too much about trying to make this quick quick. I got a two hour version of this story but sister of mine who really liked autograph books she can you my favorite george martin's going to do a signing. Can you go and it's like okay. We'll take five minutes whatever ever and i was happy going by the barnes and noble and saw that there was like a huge line. Oh gosh turns out to get in line ended up being there all day. Not knowing who this guy was is in order to finally get this autograph this creed gio thi this is in the midst of season wild and so when he did his talk talk about it was funny because he was like we have some people cool that have only know it. From the books. People only know from the show somebody you might be part way through the show or the book so try to keep all questions spoiler free so then the whole q. and a. was a nightmare because everybody not only in rat but nobody wanted to add to that guy he does it ends a lot of the whole barnes on union square multiple floors with people lined up all the way up and then finally when he was coming up you hear from the third floor you start hearing people chanting and screaming that king of the north oh my gosh here's this guy is coming up and then on the escalator is coming up and you hear those salaries and then the fishermen like gum drop of a man in the morgan mundy's suspenders and that greek fisherman's cap and the beard and like mainly cloudy a belt. Are you know a few inches above the belly and i was like this is this is when all of these people were waiting for and then he spoke and he was wonderful i don. I haven't read his pro so i don't know how good an actual writer he is but certainly his ideas that he said he was incorporating in the way he talks about people on storytelling was beautiful. I don't watch the show i just saw a picture of him and i'd worked a couple times and we got along great with an roth <hes> the the costume designer and she agreed to be the cost of designer on the film which was like a mazing and then the day. I went to her office to start talking about designs. She said <hes> i'm handing this over to one of my associates in the office office but she did dress nathan and gabriel and <hes> they agreed and i was involved in the fat suit but the fat that's it was expensive nathan's in a fat suit and i was told he paid for it and then we'd pay him back but wow it never we never did and he but he's in a fat suit but he based on that guy yeah insurance because i saw a picture of it. I love that you're confident enough to go with the choice. That's what he looks like base medium yeah. I'm not sure that's the hat he's wearing but i bought a greek fishermen cap like a year before we even had the money i just had it ready to knowing and and and i think i gave it to him but i don't think that's the hat he's wearing right now. He's great in it. Full cast and crew is brought to you by out of jack's smile a new comedy short video series from jackpot nick co writer and director of the sony pictures feature film space station seventy six and current recurring guest on grace and franky and sea nation out of jack's mind like follow at chuck comedy on facebook or chocolate dot com chocolate chocolate original comedy delivered daily we do alternative casting and chris had a couple of interesting notes from this movie when you can tell us whether these are true or not i had read. There was an article in the hollywood reporter when you were talking about the kickstarter and i think think at that time this is before gabriel byrne. I think you're saying the ted levine ted levine even remember how it happened. Ted levine ed levine for listeners from silence of the lambs among you can listen to silence of the lambs episode wherever you get podcasts. I listened to that one. Oh that's great. I love one. He listened to matz. It's the top of the form asia you get a lot of the same same same stuff. Humana charlton is but you're i get. Did you not uh-huh tat. Oh i didn't know him. I don't remember why i reached out to him but he did. You see the kickstarter video. We did a video. Our really funny video because ted is he's in the video. The video is head. I did nathan remotely and it doesn't really integrate well. I had had laurie metcalf in film grade. She had to drop out but i got frantic. She would have been francis conroy. Who's great idea was they were were doing the pitch to raise money for the kickstarter so ted was going to be the gabriel byrne character yeah and ted who was serving. It's tricky. I didn't know him. I don't remember why asked them to do it but he agreed to do it and then people said to me he's. He's a great actor actor but you're lucky because he's not very funny <hes> so i. Why would you be lucky because this a couple times where gabriel's funny yeah uh-huh. Why are you lucky if two oh you mean you're lucky that he ended up not doing it all. I see what you're saying yeah. Even though i'm sure he would have been great. If you're listening to this ted you'd have been great <hes> look if you made silence of the lambs. You'd be a little weighted down the thick with but he was he was <hes> he was. He was scary but you know interestingly. Thinly jodie foster tells the story that of all the people on the set when they were making the movie he was the kindest warmest to her. She was sort of adrift on this crazy set and he was nothing at all like his character and he would be humorous. I got to know him. We did that one day and i think it was so vague what we were doing the video breath and everybody was a little off their feet aren't they were the most uncomfortable moments when you kind of get the sense someone trying to marshal everything together. There's a bit collective disease or unease. That's beginning to emanate from your own project and you're wondering if this is it is going to it's going to stay like it's going to art or is it going for ray in directing actors. I my my confidence was a little shake well. I did want to ask you to start with a feature film. That's pretty ambitious. Yeah i mean maybe some shorts lay or assured. Never directed a play you familiar with the fifty second street three projects sheriff worked at the fifty second street project and that's all i ever directed so fifty seconds for project for the listeners is a project whereby incredibly talented broadway actors directors <music> and writers come together and work with underprivileged children to bring their stories to lane and adult actress do the place just i had. I have a feeling i could do it. I'd been on enough films and i surrounded myself with with the exception of a few people that were unbelievably skilled uh-huh and it worked out and on top of it. You know obviously speaks to you like you would say in this same story. I came up with the story of no pay nudity during dark period four or five years ago. I think it's safe to say i was struggling with not only working very much but coming to grips that certain dreams had not likely to come to fruition and my definition of success success as an actor had to be reassessed today in the last few years. I've made peace with a lot of these issues but i'm still an actor who wants to work and still find myself with certain fantasies of my youthful dreams i had how does a young actor being fulfilled. I found that a very interesting quote because you know as i said before i it's you have an enviable career and to think that there's still some <unk> dissatisfaction but all of these things the love of acting but frustration with the career elements there's so much in there that is so true to you that that comes out and i would think that any director director is going to do a great job if they know and care about what they're saying and it shines through in like in in i appreciate of did it was important to me if i'm gonna do it for the first time to do it about something that i really know right and i have another project that i that i would love to make it's about when i was fifteen. I mean i know now as well as i know this. It's another semi autobiographical film so i'm not going to direct the i have no aspirations to direct the star wars although if they offered it to me yeah you wouldn't have to come up the struggles struggles about the career that never goes away never goes away but along the same lines the beginning of the scene that we just played with what nathan's character saying about having no power and this perception in that actors have of themselves as having our perception which as directors but also the rest of the world really does go out of its way to reinforce. You didn't make a fantasy like it's is not <hes> gimblett. I'd about the profession but it's it's able to be loving in that way and recognize how frustrating that is while still acknowledging the amount of rigor that it takes. I look at that scene though and i go he's telling kid the beginning of his career not addition for something i look at it. I go oh is that. Is that a good message while he's telling him to stay pure to something to not do shed because you're not to not assume that you do have power it to have some out of standard for yourself. I think it is and that's why i i love the title. I think it's such a funny title. The idea of like the kid reads the things like oh. This part speaks nice to me. I'll do it for no pay and i'll show dick. That's very different than i'm just gonna. Go to every audition because i need to do something and it's desperation because it's about valuing being yourself and valuing the art and that's because i've already talked too much but one more thing that i thought was a wonderful <hes> observation. That's made here's in herschel voiceover specifically talking about out gabriel byrne's len right. It's a if anyone can remember her man lester lester but he goes lower lesser lawrence lawrence leicester's time in l._a. And he's talking specifically about him getting written off the soap opera and then thinking about it as a career in sort sort of the seat of bitterness that becomes planted at that point it was when they killed them off from that fucking soap opera that things went kaput it was all going doing well up to them and then they killed them off and never told him why he was out of work and that made him scare. Why did they kill me. Leon why why and then he worked less and then and only then he started using the word career career like rear a bad sign that that makes him fear therefore he works which of course then feeds on itself in such a way that we then have this borderline bittered guys the beginning who becomes super embittered by the time his friend in quotes gets apart our friends to me their friend. I guess i only put it in big clusters very ungenerous throughout the whole thing and i think the whole arc of the movie is about his ability to become more generous by losing your hit of bitterness in the center a great cameo from loudon wainwright the third <hes> <hes> do i thought did such a great job of embodying the savior for leicester but then at the end kind of also not that he puts the knife in the back of basically he has a stage reading reading and it's a great opportunity for leicester unless it does pretty well but his co-star does even better and then in a phone call which i think is a great device key is still leicester's buddy <music> but he's delivering the news that they want a name like you said the financial backers of the movie themselves wanted to name right and he's kind of like yeah man fuck them. You know maybe we'll committee will change the he's going onto the next stage of success. Let's getting left behind and he's kind of blindly or willfully unaware of what he's doing to leicester in the moment yeah yeah loudon wainwright or read his book recent. If you read the book that he wrote a book you gotta very self lacerating tone like he is not putting himself up on a pedestal salat. All his book tells a lot of stories against themselves that are not hope dr whole areas lee wounding and sad and he's someone is pretty honest about having lived a life in pursuit of fame and success in all the cash prizes that go with that at the expense of the other aspects of life and he did a great turn in this movie with. I think a lot of that stuff going going on inside of him. I had called him very early. I know him peripherally of close friends with my old old friend. Daniel stern the actor and i wanted him to do the soundtrack interesting and then my change my mind like there'd be songs with words and stuff on. Maybe a few oh okay. I had a composer and i also had any song in the film. Might my main financier owned a record label up until about six months ago he he just sold it. It was called razor and tie sure you know razor and <hes> kids bop. He owned that wow cliff chen feld. When you own kids bob you can have your boutique indie razor and tie label to do all the bands. You really are interested in finance. You can find a movie. This is a uh more power to a couple of his artists are so he just sold the company that means he can finance your next film. He's not going to finance my next. Well don't say never i would. I now i can't it's. It's a romani delay. Here's this you know what a jerk six. Hundred eighty thousand dollars turned out to be a mench. He's immensely is a match and he lost money but but that's what you do when his ring when you finance an independent feature that's what you do when you invest in broadway. I mean for crying out loud people. What do you want your money back. You got to be a part of a movie. That's the trade off but loud over the years we'd go see his shows like at the winery and i met him and i knew he acted and i want him to it and the character is loosely loosely based on stephen sondheim saying he he's not portraying him but would've very successful what the most success i was so loosely and i had to tell loud and he's not really an actor not really bunnies. He's had a warning and i had to tell them. Just you don't have to talk so loud i otherwise he was he was great. Probably the hand that well though tell me how loud to talk mr talk as loud as i need. Thanks listen as an aside this loudon wainwright the third moment the you're the father of a daughter. I'm the father of daughter. Loudon has a brilliant song. I don't know the title of it because that's my daughter in the water. Oh yeah that's my daughter. You're in the water thinks she owns everything. That's smile everything. She knows i taught him and i thought you were going to mention rufus a tit man. Do you know that i know that one yeah. That's a good one. That's that's when rufus his son. Rufus wainwright was infants. He liked to nurse about yeah. No it's the reference. I'm getting all the the double the the trip. All the entendre yeah who is the other is that we say that guy for those actors that you recognize from atv or the first show that gabriel byrne's character goes through where he's just so unimpressed at what's going on which i mentioned chris the other day the show scenes joe higgins joel higgins the acting scenes the plays are so fucking brilliant and so chris from my heart as a you know spending ten years going to williamstown theater festival you can see a lot of theater which can vary they can all be winners and just the quick little hits of the way you indicated what is going on stage. I thought we're fucking hilarious yeah with someone. That's like no no no okay dad like just. We've all seen that play. We've all spent. Two hours was in forty minutes in our seat at that play joel higgins. Where do i know him from well silver spoons. That's what it was. He was the data on silver spoons and jaw. You're all i've known him so we we the crowd that iran ah around with when i was in los angeles i met joel he was part of that the crap and then i did the music man with him at the muny and we've and we've kept in touch all these years. He's great in that off. Gabriel byrne's attempt to he's. He's not really trying very hard to complement the performance which is another great thing about this performing as he said it's a little bit inside baseball. A great thing about that scene is the delegate line of he wants wants to be competently the phillies host supposed to but he also he also feels like there's some more vanity of like but i'm going to be obviously you you were. You were yeah yeah. There's you're in it. There's a lot going on in that direction and the very fact that the jokes that he picks up on it yes rosenthal. Oh man how are ya ya it. What's been up to this guy and i we go back for ever. We did talk talk in one thousand nine hundred eighty s to how shit oh this is darrel. Hey i'm going to catch up so we've been doing lately. Well ooh little this back. You know we say show you wonderful. When courageous work you saw my show aw we saw it and it was just while that play i mean it was and you and you were just there and you were reading and living in a scrape su- such a boss move. I just had an opportunity to make up for a bad post post show behavior. I literally like twenty five years later. I i went to see one of the very first previews of into the woods the production my friend was in it. He played the baker chip zion and went backstage and i i didn't like it. I wasn't really listening okay. I was not listening well and it was in rough shape but that's beside the point. I went and i was your honest well to him. I i was honest but james aims lupine came to say hello to him his dressing room the man that wrote it and directed it and i couldn't work up anything and james levine never saw me for anything. Oh aw he's never seen me for anything and i attribute it to that. I've you know you're my spirit animal now. This is what i struggle. I find it so hard to be complimentary implementary towards someone or something that did not earn the compliment unless it's my child seven high bar okay well. I did into the woods little less than a month ago. At townhall. We needed a concert of it. It was to benefit some organization. The cleveland music institute and it was all ohio actor was just one night only and i was in it was james bond there. He came to see it. I heard what you did not see. Twenty-five five years later i've learned to listen and i was going through the situation with a personal stuff and it's all about parents and their children and i was really i was listening to really hit me really hard and i saw the value and how beautiful it is and i i wrote a note. I said i heard you were there. No i didn't tell him i was that i knew he was there. I just wrote him. I said i got a chance to be in your musical. <hes> knowing that he was there was kind kind of pathetic. I know i think that's the right way to go and i said james i just want you to know that <hes> saw it so many years ago and i just was not a good listener but i got the chance to do it and it's it's quite beautiful but i made up for for. That's gonna going in for something right after we weren't aftermath. Try the james's seeing him downstairs. That's not why i wrote him but if it if it works that way because there's so much better friends remembers this all these years later that's so i bet you i bet my does really pathetic the way i behaved i think it's i i actually worked with young actors. I don't don't know once in a while. I give they ask for a little bit of advice and i say it is incumbent upon you with your colleagues. Do you gotta find something positive to say you. You have to you know when we were in a fraternity. We have to support each other right and i regret that i agree with you a hundred percent because if if nothing else even if the work work you don't care for somebody did somebody tried very hard spot off. I will say i have seen performances or things that is like you not work on you. The things that i thought you know ninety nine point nine percent of the time people are trying their hardest and they will look back later and becca boy. I wish i had done this but let them come to that themselves. Going back to leicester's dealing with the dad from hoon's like you don't get any points by thinking you are a superior by shitting on the work that somebody just did you not out and he's also lester is very obviously not listening in both of the plays that he goes to no he's. He's not even looking at the stage now. He's he's so in his own head. Yarn i in this yeah something along those lines yeah he's he's. I don't admire him a lot of the film. He grows a little. I wanted more. I guess this is a good column into the film. After he makes the turn he goes to cincinnati dayton dayton and he's the fool in some shakespeare shakespeare era truest and that's where he's helpful to his colleagues again. He's having fun on stage at that point. I was ready for more. I wanted him to go back and make peace with all. I wanted to see that right. Did you shoot more of him. Post the turn because i would have watched another twenty minutes of his return to his life. We just didn't have an ending. I mean i don't know if you noticed but the ending is a montage not a good way to end the film so you mean on talking talking about going into it. How are we going to end this. We'll figure that out. Later was a almost that i wanted hard to add <hes> i actually went back and did a few shots like lester with the dog and less than walking down the street with donna murphy and clearly they're seen each other. I wanted to write a scene with lester and boyd yeah <hes> having a a reproche mall and boyd actually saying they cut everything i did that would radio. We didn't have the money yeah. Nobody would go for it well. I wanted to do what you just yet suggested and we. I don't know why we just kind of let the ending kind of just like now. It's there you do it in. The turn is definitely made you see that like everything that is in the montage does show that there's yeah there's growth. Thank thank you for a moment because i'm watching the scene between leicester and his daughter and i'm thinking oh this is interesting choice this actresses making i mean it's just she's basically basically doing a laurie metcalf impersonation and so then when i'm googling. I'm like oh she's louima. Come dawn. Lawrie really grady's brady's great zoe perry zoe perry and her dad's jeff perry the actor jeff perry jeff perry. You know it was on scandal. I never watched it but nobody the step in wolfer. They were married to each other charles. Married and malcolm grow stopdown hold up jeff. Perry was on the greatest single season television series of all time. Oh what was that he's getting to it. I think he was mr kaczynski on my so called life that yeah tell me you guys. We watched one season chris. It was on only one zero unreason. Was that joe j. Jared jared leto was jordan catalano and huda jeff perry play. He played mr kaczynski. He was a teacher at the school he was brilliant in this series and in the colombo cinematic universe cinematic universe why and he also was in a columbo episode in one thousand nine hundred nine called murder smoke and shadows li. If there's one thing i could complain about your career no column on our out. Please tell let me at least went out for a colombo. You're in that world. Maybe we can transition to some t._v. Work the hour long procedural years where colombo on nineteen teen literally they ryan have peter fox were very close. I think that's that forever never went out for one. I'm <unk>. It's not like i remember every audition i've ever had because it's been you would remember on it up and muslim men get but i would remember colombo. No full cast and crew is brought to you by behemoth from monkey brain comics behemoth is the dirty dozen meets the fly with little spiderman thrown in kids are turning into monsters and the government steps in to keep things quiet. Some are never heard from again but others are forced on suicide missions on behalf of a world that hates hates them as part of project behemoth. Find it on monkey brain comics dot com or call today. Let's talk a little bit about some of your t._v. V work okeydoke. I'm going to start by just playing a brief little clip here from the introduction since we've done national lampoon's vacation on the pod were we're interested in the land poon. We've talked about it a bunch and this i was i'd never heard of this which i guess is one of their early television specials done for h._b._o. Commit <hes>. I don't know this big wooden space ship or something landed and then this beaver got out of it yeah lever the curious grabbed appears suddenly in the thermal inversion above large looking city. It's only passenger her beaver from beyond the stars guided. Perhaps by the unseen for destiny beavers cleft has floated for eons from galaxy to galaxy coming arrested last on the fragile surface of this green watery planet in a little known corner of the universe is the viva's mission. Why as been brought here we go see ah i love that song by the way disco beaver from outer space. It's one of your cast members wrote that song. I think allie platon she's gone now at a sang get. I didn't know she wrote it and her husband josh white yeah it'd be ever heard of the joshua light. Show yes no if you go to the fillmore east which i never did 'cause i wasn't living here then but there it was a light show and it was very psychedelic light show okay and josh kind of invented it. I remember her from doing one of the boys and you could probably even watch sure joshua light show the kind of the effect that it made and like tie dye and paint the it's hard to describe but the way this happened undisclosed <unk> from outer space. I was in a show. I had done a few things here in new york. I got cast in a show called the present tense it was a sketch show and then we would improvise sketches and then a play right by the name of jeffrey sweet would rewrite them and they would be the sketches and also there were musical numbers. Some of the contributors abusers who alan menken weekly chain because this show we did it for about a month most interesting thing about it at least to my mind is that it was produced by a man dan name roger ailes. Yes roger wanted to be my manager really roger roger atv roger ailes. Here's what roger was doing at that time. It was mayor loyal nineteen seventy third street right off the park central park west. It's right behind the dakota okay. It's a big building in it they did. I'm sure they don't now nice amenities for the insurer now. It's a two bedroom so we we had done like a workshop of it. Roger was a producer roger was at that time primarily but he did the mike douglas show for years and he was working with politicians and make an helping them get media savvy and one of the guys that worked for him was steve rosenfeld and he directed the present tense and roger produced reduced. It and roger wanted to be my manager and we friendly. Did you have a manager at the time. He wanted to be a german agent. I got an agent by being in in this show this show it puts you on them out me on the map. I the review in the new york times. I got six paragraphs six. Yes i do remember this and i got an on agent and i got allow tension in norman lear came to see it. Norman lear flew me out west and that's what i always wanted to do and that's why moved out there. The show closed abruptly got an an o._b. I got a drama desk nomination. One of the things i did was sing that song that i mentioned to you addressed as a hostage ju- singing this kind of pathetic song called possum pie and i did another scene where i went blind norman lear stand up and pay attention. I was on a blind date with a young woman and i put a pinas genus on my nose and i had a little puppet and i just went hi. Hi hi sorry. This is how you got. The party is and why did i mention this because it away so norman lear had a show. I don't even remember the name of it. He flew me out. They do audition and it didn't work out. It was all in the family and he saw the hasidic thing and he was like i was going to be perfect but we were talking about the national lampoon so between the kind of off broadway production of the present tense and the final off broadway rodgers was having trouble raising the money and i i in the interim auditioned for the national lampoon show which had been performing down at the village gate for years they were doing a national tour right and i got cast in the meatloaf was doing it and i got cast in meatloaf sparked he'd been doing in new york and i got cast in it and that's where i met the people what he meatloaf then yes and i got cast in his part and that's where i met matty simmons young ran national lampoon and he liked me and the present tense happened and i didn't do the national lampoon national tour but he put me in this go here from outer space. Put me in delta delta so delta house was the tv spinoff of animal house. You play einstein. Let's play a clip. It was so over the top that the network after like the third episode came to who i think matty and they went gotta tone. This kid down down amongst over acting on a mate for the i was why i it was kinda. Talking like this and acting like it was so nerdy that it was it was like a martian. It wasn't like human we way too much fun. I'm sure cloudy here need to poly sci paper supposed to be tomorrow morning long medium idiom or short pages okay. I have here a twelve pager on the treaty of abreast hosts out of the university of michigan nineteen sixty. It's only been used twice and never at favor guaranteed a b. plus for seventeen fifty theft. I deliver a tight with your name on it. We'll take it can't you. It's party time there. You have it in many ways. The prototypical typical lee will cough guest player role which you would then do on innumerable t._v. Shows always playing some variant of sort of the doctor the scientists that tech guy the guy's gonna explain some very complicated business the nerd most of the time walk into a room and drop some. I did that in an episode of heart to heart love tarzan robert wagner took to me. I was only supposed to guest on that and i think i ended up doing like fourteen to them and would have continued to do more but little shop came along our tires before little shot. I was cast in it about nineteen. Eighty eighty one niche mich- and i left to do hard sues you yup. You played stanley freese in hard part. That is what you call him and bobby be or rob r._j. R._j. All these are j. Whenever may she rest in peace natalie would come. He would say your girlfriend's here and he would bring me dressing room and we would sit across from each other and you would just i would just you all apart. No i wouldn't even talk. I wouldn't know what what to say. It was so i'm with natalie wood wishy nice she she was a doll. They're both night. She was very shy he was. They were great. Stephanie powers didn't like me really oh. She's so fun on the show she didn't. She didn't go for me. She probably wanted the comic relief to herself could figure it out or maybe she didn't like because r._j. Like thank you and i think i mean she was she was not he was so warm to making an. I loved whenever i could. I would spend all my time like at the feet of lionel stander. He's lionel stander. I mean the first actor to be blacklisted. He's it's just just was just. I was like heaven just just being in his presence in here's a little of your highlights. This is this is your life -ly. This is a little highlights highlights of you as stanley freese in on heart heart yes mr heart. Staling freemason wanted to see me hanley freezing. Yes i did well. What can i do for you. You you name it. You got it. Whatever you say whatever it is whatever you liked. Would you like mister heart. Fever cheers is going over this in your way. I guess they weren't a big enough fan to let you have your lines comparable that they made of all your moments. Let's say you're getting very good jazz tickets from yes that's right. I'm gonna jazz and say this is a white man dancing with the stephanie powers. No it was her first tv show. We'll figure out her name. Amy madigan emmanuelli really her first her first tv show. I can't tell whether putting the theme from cheers over this is a compliment to you <hes> <hes> because they love you so much. They just want to like see you not hear you. I don't know it's very strange. Choice everybody in your name so you're in l._a. At this time i moved to l. a. Right after the present tense disclosed <hes> i had an uncle that lived in ventura and he had a deli in oxnard and i worked at the delhi by day and i would drive into town how it was called our gang deli but it was called a deli but it was a license that officially from the little rascals were you in violation as adelie knowing on cole who i love the statute of limitations for infringement increase. I don't think uncle pete license. You use the our argonne characters. No had the font. I think it did happen to have we sandwich. I don't think the sandwiches were and there was like two jews in oxnard so you and your uncle sixty miles having sixty miles audition in at night and he'd give me the day off. If i had an audition wow and i gave myself six months and nothing happened and right before i was gonna leave i did the gong show which unfortunately really we couldn't find a clip on on that doesn't well it. Does exist can not not that episode well. I think you can buy oh maybe a d._v._d. Of the complete gong show but we didn't go that extra mile. What did you do on the gong unit very -fensive character. If i recall i had done this character in the present. Tense elvis had just died right and we came up with. I play the banjo. I had written. This song. Apropos of nothing called possum pie is going to be the next elvis on the gong show no in ladies and gentlemen. We've just lost elvis but someone is here to take his yeah to fill his his cut off his head. Marsha morrison walks out things on the banjo possum pie so i decided i'd sing it on the gong show and it has some some lyrics lyrics which today would perhaps be less than politically correct and it's sure and my god gong j. p. morgan course made some <hes> even more double entendre drea response to my double entendre and then then i tell the story that happened the next day but i know it happened within the next week. I got got offered it can't have you can't do this anymore. Because of the nature of the business because you have to go to the network and you have to sign things i got offered to pilots on the same day i i wanted them was that you would audition for privy addition. Previously one of them was for norman lear was called apple pie and i took the dramatic show called webb w. w. e. base the woman that produced <hes> they said was the prototype for faye dunaway in network. Her name was lynn boland oakland and she was a network executive. It was her answer to the kind of horrible person that they dunaway was in network but she was so oh antipathetic it was played by this actress named pamela bellwood who i think went on to do dynasty and i played the head of research named harvey perlstein face loosely. They claimed on fred silverman <hes> who was running n._b._c. time. I don't know why put it on the air because my understanding was he loathed it. He loathed that. I remember we'd day there was a big n._b._c. Party and i went up and tried to speak to him and <hes> ah probably the biggest blow off i've ever gotten in my life so nine hundred opera about pamela bellwood head of special events programming at transatlantic broadcasting company a t._v. Network jack kylie's they had a programming gus dunlap head of the news. Dan castillo is the sales chief walter. Matthews is the head of operations and harvey perlstein is the research head lots backstabbing amongst this group characters and the actors were richard base heart. He was the head of the news department and guy name alex cord award and andrew prime. These were like they played a lot of cowboy roles. Yeah and web was the first show zam or w. E. w. w. e. b. How did the norman lear apple pie ever go to series. It went to series we were the first show cancelled that season and apple pie was cancelled the next apple pie with room mcclanahan dabney coleman. I didn't know who they were and i- i fancied myself a serious act of course and <hes> <hes>. Did you see what stanley freezing did harvey. Perlstein didn't do much. I am lebel. Would i have seen with her and she went to lynn. Bolan and lynn boland rowland said he doesn't know how to act. I really i'm going to say this. I had no idea what i was doing. As i didn't know what the hell i was doing and i was not particularly. Well trained. Luckily ahead a little kernel of ability. I really was not prepared. I thought i was going to be a sitcom guy. If i do anything this is what they'll do with. I have a lot of people the neurotic people have some idea of what they're like if they're going to be a star where it's going to happen right and i thought it's probably going to be in sitcoms. I think did like three of them and i always it was never enough time and they need a lot of her soul. It just didn't work. It didn't work out that way. It's fine. It's funny because watching you in some great sitcoms like newhart yeah. Where are you played elliott gabler the literary agent i was his age. It has an effortless feel. You seem on the screen to just be completely at ease amidst among everyone. I was not a real carry. It's funny saying this but i was not really teams like the apple pie. One actually was a sitcom for the nonsense ause talk about a fear of flying created as as you had mentioned this birdie persona that was fashionable for a while and that went out of fashion pretty quickly but i played a lot of those kinds of roles but made real characters out of them. I was talking to jason yesterday about how having watched that episode of hunter. Yes where you come in as i mean it's a good show. There was a clip of me yeah yeah. We're gonna play it. Oh i had never seen fred dryer and stephanie cramer. Do you know how she spelled her name s. t. e. p. f. a. n. really anyway. She's she's insane. She's the team is you're seeing the one thing i remember i think i'm smoking and chewing gum coffee which ruins both the coffee and the gum as you delivering exposition and it makes the characters so alive and so much more than just this position dump that potentially could have been a lot out of the business that jen's a little extra to it so you won't be acting. Maybe it becomes the character gives it some distinctive and feels like oh. This is a real person. I didn't play elliott gabler here on your coffee. Help you satisfied. You just drove them out of the room surprise. You did want to share credit for that. Sometimes i wonder if my aunt lillian didn't have the right idea of ah dick great to see. Why aren't you writing elliot. What what what are you doing here. The publisher wants pillow talk now so i came out to get you you you didn't have to do this. You're my client. I'm involved. I care and this way. I can write off my ski weekend so hand over that little monster. They can't my collaborator and i are having some artistic differences. Oh god well now. What are we gonna do. Elliott joanna high will will work it out. She just wants to make a few changes and i'd rather die. I dick you're obviously too emotionally involved. What you need is a disinterested third party to read that book and then make a final decision volunteering. It should get this over with it. I don't think you wanna go along with it. The best i can do is talk to her all right. Do what you have to but if you have any problems just remember. I care care. I'm involved lake slopes there you go. I thought you're great. You're going toe to toe with eight comedy legend agenda great deliverer of lines and you are in the scene with him and it's seamless to me. I mean i'm not saying it's the highest of art art but i'm saying bob newhart and i think you are you are in that scene with him in a great way i appreciate that i think i may have mentioned to you got back to me. He didn't in want me to be on the show anymore. That's how you know you were good. Yes that's right. You don't want to share the good see. I always thought he didn't think i was funny. Little scene where i came in the shoes. That's the only thing i remember. I have no but i do remember remember this. It's a suit that i think they wear when they downhill. You are george the why don't you show the guys how to play monopoly sure thing. It looks nice paint job that one is always stuck in my thing because because i thought i was going to do a lot to do i was happy to be in his presence really he's. He's incredible boy. We've got a chance to work with a lot of comedic great. Madeline kahn was another one rebel madeline jonathan winters and madeleine. I had no memory of what i did on it but i have memory of her special or is it was a series. I think it really just did an episode and episode. Can i the biggest the biggest crush on her. I mean she was just she is brilliant to divide and sweet and and i remember she asked me if i had a girlfriend. Lee and i think it was married. What year was that. I think there was married. I i was with connie. It was by nineteen. We had a little league flirtation sure and that was special to me while you're looking up your notes on whether you were romantically intimately involved with your own wife or not meddle in wayne craves excitement in her mundane life leading her to try every fad dragging her friend doors along or husband charlie a romance novelist watching watching things unfold with his buddy robert whose doors x one season and out yeah but i was that was thrilling. I worked on. I don't even is it listed. The show was canceled the day. I was working. We never shot at it was called chicken soup and it was <hes> jackie mason a we mentioned hunter which i love this is another role for you like you do this exposition in the scenes and this one is quite a lot of exposition. Yes a lot of words. There's no. It's just it's. I'm sort of like this. I mean you have a lab coat. You have allowed to assume oh. You're a doctor some kind. I think they call. He called me doc. Do remember him and he was. He was very nice guy. You're right hundred there is something about that last last phone message from the hague really correct. It's about eleven thirty a._m. Listen maybe at the corner of east. It's brooke and delano an empty lot there. You'll be real pleased by watch how lilo message blaze up. Hey this is the rat put on quite a show really boy well. We're all real pleased by to see how you got your highest spikes on the words you'd give the most stressed dressed to the first word in a sentence important words punchline eleven a._m. Calculator lilo oh now now watch the very last message. Hey really it's about eleven thirty. Am listen meet me at the corner of east brook orlando. Almost all the words spike hi so what you're saying is that the last message was not the rats voice. It was imposters. No no no it's the rats voice all right but he never said those words in that order really a threat about eleven thirty. Am listen meet me at the corner of easterbrook brooke delano epilogue. There will be real pleased by now. Did you hear those clicks. I re recorded the message and pushed up the volume now. Those clicks are what edit sounds sounds like it seems like someone was taping the rats voice and took the words out of context edit them into a new message which was played over the phone and into willie's answering machine that that would account for both the excessive stress on so many words and the absence of background music borrow this machine duck hunter your reputation breakable objects. Harping gum chewing is really disturbing. It's like i'm eating a piece lisa steak hunters. A good show fred dryer great charisma never want really wasn't an actor. He just couldn't have been nicer guy. <hes> he was <hes> it was between him and ted danson for <hes> for cheers oh yeah and another and he seemed to be like a guy. He didn't give a shit but he gave take it too serious now. He didn't take himself serious after a successful professional sports career. He's like this is what you guys get all upset about. Who is actually hitting. I think this is great and he was a cop constructively shell. The concept of the show is who are very innovative at the time was a cop who breaks all the rules never saw that before yeah he keeps breaking stuff and getting sort of flustered with due process cast and crew was brought to you by two different guys on a bench approach a new comedy series from american vandal star ryan o'flanagan two different guys on a bench where ryan talks to ryan on the bench. We leapt comedy simple folks. Two different guys on a bench videos can be found now on facebook at chocolate comedy like and follow chuckle for the latest and greatest short form comedy. The videos juggler original comedy delivered daily. Let's get to something good while i was gonna ask about. You've been both the single episode player. You've also have been regular on quite a few shows. Can you talk about the difference in the mindset when you're aghast. We are a foster child. Okay some shows. You're an unwanted foster. Child is just like they leave you. Some shows your embraced but i understand it. It's not easy being a guest being regular. It's a nice feeling you're part part of the family. You know everybody's name for me. My greatest experiences at least in in the theater are the dressing room. You know <hes> the cast and being regular is always <hes> ferry. I always felt so comfortable coming on and guesting. I always spell off balance. Yeah especially on these shows that have been on here for the last thing that i really guest on maize maize. They were very nice jason. I loved what i got to do that. One was i was lonely but so what i mean i like what i wanna do is being a regular on. This series is really fun when you're talking about being a regular series what about doing a film. We have a more substantial role. Does that have a similar sort of comfort feel yes and even though it's for too often but a couple of films was a film called chattahoochee. I was down in south carolina for a month. That was great and do you like the vagabond existence or is it hard to be away not because it hasn't happened that often. The only time i really have been away from my family doc was i went off and did wicked for nine months and then seven months and that was to pay for junior and senior year of college but i didn't make i never made it like a concerted decision not to be way of national. Tours didn't come up that films. I always loved going going on location. I got to go to bulgaria to do this. Film copland grey zone which is still mutt my most kind of proud and special moment directed by tim blake like nelson tim's use me in three of his films and i just did a play that he wrote at the public i did this play called socrates so tim's been very interesting. I think phil really wonderful to me and really a wonderful man and an interesting film director but i love going on location to when you end up with something like ally mcbeal. You're living in l. a. at the time no we left l._a. In ninety two shot that in l._a. didn't they david kelly liked me from something and and brought me out and started using me and then we had a little weird little falling out you and david kelly. I'm not a not charles was at the same time alley mcbeal was on. He did this little thing. It was like a clip show called alley and they wanted to use a clip from ally mcbeal on allie of me and my agent at the time demanded the be paid certain amount of money <hes> and and david kelly was reported to me said i don't want to ever hear lee will coughs name again woah mcnamee and i wrote them a letter because i had this nice relationship with because he then he stopped using me on ally mcbeal and the ladder and then he brought me back on oh he did. I did seven of those. You could probably go to ally mcbeal convention appearances. If you wanted wanted to possibly could i get. My name was nixon district attorney nixon. I always lost and yet you still got reelected listed did on his thing. I wonder what the hell it was so. It's like a clip of the it's like a compilation of the last year they sold into. I think so god mcbeal was a huge t._v. Show did really out there stuff yes well that was sort of his signature narrative. They had the the first. I <hes> co ed bathroom. They all like be in the bathroom at the same time. I was on the show. We have that in hampshire going back. Yeah i know max headroom. I work with the same people because we worked yeah. We were part of the network and we all i say ninety percent of my scenes scenes or around a conference table and we would watch a screen. I mean it was it was the technology did had not caught up with the idea of the show right yeah dan yes and it was excruciating so we spend a lot of time just hanging out and kibitzing. I was just watching. We've we've been watching since fantastic. It's really the ideas that are in there and some crazy out got away with when my daughter was literally in the delivery room rumors. This is all they wanted me to be on the set so was eighty. She was born in eighty seven so it was probably eighty six eighty eight i did. I don't know how many of those i think there are thirteen episodes all told in your in every single. One of them reminds me. A lot of brazil in the lights. Through the glass is in the sort of atmospherics. I said to chris the other day. I can't think of another show that did more with obviously less of a budget and i think he had to do with the ideas behind it like they ed very definite point of view and so you forgive a lot of the nothing severe but the elements that fall short just because the idea is so compelling in this world world where television has taken over everything you know what's funny and i mentioned jay probably board hearing. There's a book that i read recently that came out in eighty seven called amusing ourselves to death which was about the rise of television vision. This is about the same time and i didn't realize until reading it. How relatively new in eighty seven television still was and there were people hadn't quite thought through uh-huh in possibilities that were there. There were a lot of things that we take for granted now. At that point we're still so new alive so the fact that this show and actually this go beavers matters face the fact had these meta things about what it's like to be watching television to get the images and the fact that everything religion entertainment politics in max headroom all become part of television decided by ratings was very of its time and fresh nato even if the scripted and always explain everything you kind of go with because there's such a strong sense of the world you had mentioned about a limited budget. The producer called me at home. When they got picked up for a second season he literally she called me and i agreed to take a certain salary for the second season without consulting. My agent was going to kill me. What are you meeting with greek and did he called me. You know i wanted to be on it just a really interesting weird. I like things that are weird. That's why like wild rock. It was so weird. I heard it has the weirdest opening sequence of any t._v. Show i think i've ever seen it's like randy. Newman in like a studio environment not with the cast is there are some cast members stephen bochco and like the executives are like groupings and <music> who go back pay in order. That's the intro segues to cop pop-rock not police action but it makes a certain kind of saying. I understand that <hes> the final episode they break out of character do something similar sort of. I guess it makes ah kind of i mean as much sense as musical about cops on television could possibly make but it makes sense because you know even at the time. There were a lot of cop shows. We'll take advantage witting separates you and it was ahead of its time. Cop shows like this are overwrought and heightened and that's the same landscape ape of a musical and so it's not that jarring when the moments of song occur it works. This is a little bit of a courtroom gospel number. I believe you're in this yard. Isley has the jury reached verdict. We have you on hit <music>. You could see now who's got <music>. We have seen all have this ball aw fool escom and this abuse of a child. I was confused. Yeah i got so you ma. I wanna make it clear. I wanna thank your ah yup. Uh-huh ah oh the i took a walk and i know it's like derailed gorgeous on copper but i'm telling you if you watch some of these episodes towards the cop side stuff the action interpersonal stuff of the cops and the d._a.'s and all this stuff it's executed at very high bochco esque level and then the musical numbers to me. We are often pointedly dramatically at kind of brilliantly staged on the record for congress thing that happened with cop rock. I addition probably probably for steven bochco show. You directed monday castle. What a what a what a newcastle rose scape from new york why the the last starfighter steve bochco his show was did he have n._y._p._d. Blue yes yeah okay. I auditioned for that. Probably twenty times never got cast showed totally should have been in the n._y._p._d. I totally agree somehow. They were gonna cast me in. You got back when you did law and order for like thirty episodes or whatever right i did. I think i was on law and order. I was maybe i'm guessing and i don't think s._v._u. I i did i did the first season of the original and i did their last season odds. You're a judge i was a judge. I was an assistant d._a. I was a principal alive. I love how they bring back the same actor to play like different jails in the same university like wait a minute. That guy was a judge. That wasn't necessarily what happened. This thing that happened with voted. Yeah i got the motive. They wanted to make sure i could sink yet. I'd already done little shop lobby that if you know what he did what i had to do was win the sing for mike post. She's and i also pressure to get that audition. I went to some place down in westwood and made a recording of myself singing good lovin by the young rascals to sing that one line then seriously they were taking it very seriously and all those people that were singing <hes>. They're all session singers in l. A. and they came up to me and they went. You can sing and i went. I know the allies in and then i sang <hes> i wasn't supposed to singh. He's guilty because i'm his lawyer and greg abbott was he said. Did you saying he's guilty. I'm going to have to shoot this all over over again and i went wait a minute. No i'm his lawyer and even i think he's kept it kind of were does work but he was furious at me. That's hilarious. Beverly hills butts is a curio for me because i was a huge hillstreet blues guy and this was sort of the classic classic ill fated. Ill conceived spin off. Let's take this great greedy new york peripheral character in this show that's totally working and throw him him into a completely unbelievable scenario in los angeles to calm and maybe it'll be a show. I think that's that's my no memory except really that <hes> what's his name was great. Tennis fan couldn't have been nicer. I think i could tell he didn't give a shit about i mean he. He's a person that he knew he knew what was having no idea what i did. Here's a little of you in what episode number four of beverly hills wrong wrong show my god mr fred luke kuhn. Excuse me norm bus. I'm working on the inner. Cal air disaster your client. Marian harris called what about you. I told her not to speak with you anymore. Just a minute of your time mr mccombs right your clients got a problem on your problem right now mr macos excuse me you got any idea how these cases work of course they accumulate data making offers to who lower not higher they just lower. We sat oh there's low offers and then there's low offers. These people play on people's feelings. People are grieving. They don't wanna wanna fight secrets in a closet. They don't want discovered or week lawyer sayeh family lawyer people are leaning on him for support but he don't know beans about aircrash crash. That's not true look. You're supposed to be her old family friend. Could i suggest you do a friendly thing and refer her to one of the pros like <hes> jacob ravitz. You're kidding nick. Hey a dog is getting nearly four times. What your clients get look. Rabbits may be good but i'm good too and you could believe i'd step aside of marion. Dan harris wanted me to but she won't the woman saint how's that i mean she's a simple loyal honest person mr bunce yeah but but overall so you think you could describe mrs harris as saint and nobody joke. You could give it a try. I mean courts short term memory. We lost macroom. She don't want this thing in court. At dennis france men talk about a guy who is selling some material that i think we can all agree. Here wasn't quite up to like n._y._p._d. Scripts under the he's not it's. It's a pretty soft cell say he's moving. He's getting through the day here i had had. I can't tell you what was going on in that same. I have no idea what i'm a lawyer. I think you're i think you're a lawyer. Her lawyer doesn't make sense because somehow you're gonna use your statement that your client is a saint something or something any dresses awesome adly especially in los angeles. That's how he's a duck outta. Water dressed ducks episode. This is his l._a. Garb ask dennis. France survived it to then go on to become anti sipowicz for probably ten years on n._y._p._d. Blue that's he doesn't work anymore. I don't know and seeing them in. You got if i was him. I know he didn't need to know. He's a chicago guy from chicago yeah. He hasn't worked since n._y._p._d. N._y._p._d. Blue choice god more power to him. Well i mean he did work from nineteen sixty five on hayes tire until two thousand i five should we move onto latchkey t._v. Lead this is is our segment where we provided you with a dated copy of tv guide. We'd like you to cast your mind back to. I don't know where you latchkey child or. Did you have parents at home. When you came komo from school. Mom was home almost home book. We avoided her. We just town. She's not home really we just we went and watched t._v. Okay so <hes> be provided. A snack and you were free to do till was time when my dad got home and then we had to do our homework lot of discipline it would be great if in the episode the addition i gave you which is probably eighty five. It'd be great if you were in something that was listed in this thing so let's just see what you're the home when i got home i have to watch denmark's star-spangled look at denmark's week long celebration america's independence day wait which end markets are independent and that's to watch and then there was a movie on at the same time so i'd go back and forth it's called ham bone and hilly and i just just the tightest the dry van i would watch bugs bunny and woody woodpecker course yes <hes> because i love what he would pecker really and yeah more than bugs yeah. I loved woody woodpecker here. A lot of people claiming woody deserve this sir. What was his thing he was. He was like so. He's like a wise cracking yes yes. He talked and he he he did not observe the rules subversive okay con- yeah he would not be bound by regulations and and you peck a lot like the trees when i so an accident woodpecker. I was very disappointed. That would always be a lot of explosion of wood chips on quick. This is in the neighborhood. People think it's who is that leave shown us. It's like that. I like this this illustration. It's actually for a like a lubricant company in oil. Oh you got it. I got it made in ohio before raising arizona killer and hi both have the same tattoo and i think it's that same tattoo we should do raising arizona and then i'd watch father knows best. Are you familiar with that. Of course i never seen it and greenacres. Shahjahan red blooded man. It was more about the surreal like a talking pig. The comedy was very really out there. It was really really <hes> what's his name. I love him. He was from he was from wish mount mountainous eddie albert eddie eddie albert. Josh ogle bore pat pat haney. All these character guys always loved the carrot as always always attracted to the character which the greatest that guy you ever met in your acting career like. Did you ever meet an m emmet walsh. I work work with law she did. We call them ma'am. I did a film called chatahoochee which starred <hes>. I mean i had thanksgiving with gary. Oldman <hes> dennis hopper wrestler gary oldman compromise it was he had some he had he had some days but generally very sweet jazz hopper gary oldman and emmett wall and you are in a movie together matt craven guiding gary klar frantic arm and <hes> pam sounds good pam read <hes> it was directed attended by getting mick jackson. It was destroyed in the editing room own really <hes> but it was a hoochie in one thousand nine fifty five florida. A korean vet has a breakdown is incarcerated in a maximum security mental health prison where patients are abused and is a good story. Yeah i played most of my stuff was was with gerry or in dennis senior inmate and i'm an inmate had to do crazy. I was crazy. Shout my wife fucking hand home the dow so yeah i work with amit and he was probably the most what's the word well first of all he would not eat thanksgiving with us why we all loved him and he didn't he just was he didn't enjoy the love. Love didn't think so thing was the owner he was such a loner but that's a thing. Isn't it actors like you wanna be alone in the crowd. You want to be alone on the set. I think he wanted not to be alone but he <hes>. I couldn't figure them out but i hear. I don't think she's wanted to sit at his feet. I always loved the older character guys. Everyone did god he's been in so many when i did the front page of the front page down and there was a character. Guy's name was ray sara. He was also a bag man for the mafia and one day he brought to me and concurrently with being an actor. One day brought your valuables before the show and he said i got twenty three thousand dollars in small bills and stage management wouldn't hold it for him and those are the guys i loved character. Guys got in raising arizona story is that he had this huge part in their first movie <hes> similar simple bowl and then he said i wanna be in all your movies and they really didn't have much for him to do but they gave him the scenes in it because those scenes are pretty <hes> <hes> extraneous but not that he wasn't warm but that he was just sort of he was he was by no means yeah he wanted to be alone and it was made me sad the most famous person i ever met with cary grant ooh big i was doing sweet charity in los angeles and after the show actually always told by like the publicity people don't talk to him. He's going to be downstairs his own talk to him. And of course i went up to mr grant. I said that's a mr grant. Have we ever met. I said no. We've never met he. We've met i went. I remember and i said you watch television and i said you see me on tv because we have this nineteen eighty five hunters drinking coffee and you know john go carry hunter and scarecrow and mrs gain like all those guys always watch that stan would drop acid and he was famous for dropping. James wants to do like a one person show where he would extol the virtues of acid. I never heard of how i believe. At some point later in his career he did sort of a an intimate evening with cary grant tour where he spoke and i think during talk a lot it on acid. Please go on with your time when i would watch the first few few minutes of west side story. The movie risen greats no no that's all we need a remake of it. Well puzzled. I'm sure i one wasn't great. I know this isn't that the whole thing that's gonna fight. It's two hours romeo and juliet with greece gangs in the streets yeah mark right. Yes okay like a less funny greece. I would watch the first few minutes because it's pretty funny now. I am in this however in something. I am in this time paradox of him like i'm gonna use challinor first lady of the world it works. Maybe it was is a t._v. Movie it was about nor <hes> after he died and you played eleanor rose at home. Now jean stapleton who i didn't know at the time then i met met her son. Who's one of my closest friends named john punch and then i became quite friendly with gene and i did this tv movie although i looked looked at my i._m._d._b. And it's not on there it's not on there. Why is that. I don't know who did you play. I played a reporter. I don't i didn't have a name all lines. I i had lines i actually edited today and i added it and hopefully it will be on because then. I'll have one hundred and one i._m._d._b. Credits if they to make eleanor the first lady. I know minutes even though i'm not credits because i remember when we were in that sure sure let's keep moving. I i would watch take me. The same way with star roy was in it cut you out. I get residuals for this. I've been cut out if i get residuals from this laughable sound system works chris yeah yeah. I get residuals from like i was. I love him. He xanadu that i was cut out of you were in xanadu you <hes> but he was then another couple of hours. We're gonna have to we're going to have to and i don't remember i headed blew the day i worked but they cut me out of it but i- residuals. I don't remember you'll remember no. I mean granted at xanadu living newton john's part and colds. I remember shooting it. I mean i remember where we shot it. We shot it on the lot at universal and i remember i was walking walking and talking to somebody i don't remember who but a minute but my point is i still get residuals but eleanor first lady the world the reason i'm sure a minute because they shot got it on the kiwi to down in long beach. I i was there so i know i'm in it and then i would watch best of groucho just because it's groucho groucho and i think you're a weird small child who's into groucho marx of course then for some reason i would watch japan today japan today japan's japan today. Is there any other any slugs on the stories. They're covering no just as magazine show and then i would watch beverly hillbillies and then i'd go to bed. That's a pretty good tv tv day and nice and varied yeah. He's like japan today and beverly hills. He wants a little information about the world but he also loved when i was as a kid. There was a guy on in cleveland on friday nights goulart. Oh yeah guardian gherardi is worth names dad paul thomas anderson and he he would show horror movies three times a year he would show the black and white original version of little shop of horrors which is why i was familiar with it when i not staying when i got a called and said do you want audition for this musical blog. Lardy was like a pre elvira type. That's present local local yokel and i'm pretty sure he was high and he would blow he would he would be able to do some sort of technology. The movie would be on we'd be watching it. He would insert himself itself in and he would blow up like firecrackers during the breaks little lady soga another fun fact about that little shop of horror movie jack nicholson send correct was in it. Yeah that's right. They shot that film <unk> myth is and i believe in two days and if you watch the scene in the dentist's office the dental chair falls over and that's the end of the scene. They didn't want to shoot it and also you. Are you going to do better than that. That's a grade paid by them when they did little shop actually on the west coast of the play the people from the original came and saw that was pretty great. That's so fun so that must've been when nicholson was like a contract. He didn't see it. Yes he he did he did lots of roger corman. I even ron writing and directing. That's all right now now when they made the eighty six version of the movie. Did you have any expectation. Hope real heartbroken when i hi what's his name rick meraz <hes> i was no because i didn't think you'd never get the move you don't get the movie but hopefully i hoped and howard ashman claims and i believe that he pushed to have your may but rick moranis china's was the nerd of the hour done ghostbusters but the woman that played audrey yes yes. I was more disappointed when i didn't get to do london. I thought that was feasible. Uh-huh never seen the movie i saw when it came out good member enjoying it so like it and they did <hes> somebody arranged private screening room. Wow i remember crying for like the first five minutes because i was disappointed and then i went and they're doing it again. Yes you you be involved in some promotional way. I will fight and tried to be considered for mr bush nick but they'll go they'll go with. I don't know the living in a time now where that gets a little bit more respect and courtesy as a casting choice. I mean who are they gonna get. I will talk down mencken and i will say the put me off a list. Yes he seen me. Do it a couple times. So don't you think i mean the the point of doing these revivals. Now is to have the whole experience of complexity element into certain legacy elon name free. It might be possible now. Did i tell you that i saw you in little shop of horrors ars in probably must've eighty six eighty seven. Were you in it. Then i was at the orpheum well i did. I did it when it opened there right and then i filled in when someone is on vacation and you may have signed on for the next five years. I know that i saw the one where the things came down from the top the monster off the no the back the top so that was the orpheum orpheum but i wasn't doing it all the time time. I didn't save my stub. Did you see alan green. I don't think so she was she worked long. Got thirteen or fourteen but it was a longtime guy was thirty nine thousand nine hundred eighty two okay and <hes> so you would fill in. I would fill in when i did at six months in new york six months in in los angeles then when i came back to new york whenever somebody went on when the seymour went on vacation rather than using the under study who understudied other characters and they would use who's make excellent latchkey t._v. Thank you thank you and i'm so glad that you got to see you. See yourself as the first lady of the world. That's like a nugget of oh really in it. I mean he was really sad. Thing might be cut out. I don't know if i'm in the cast list of xanadu but i was in. It and i get residuals residual. They cut you out of the movie. They have to give you the residual that's great. It's weird. It's not listed here. Santa do a lot of insanity to go eight. Scenes deleted contain gets a scenes deleted credit. You don't get a scenes deleted. What about davis rules with the great. Jonathan winters memory <hes>. I don't think i had anything. I didn't have scenes with him. I mean i'm disappointed that i didn't get them. No no no no memory of doing doing the show really know that weird now. There's a couple of shows that i just cannot tell you what i did on more than i. I can't even most of them. I have a slight light memory of something that when i if you had scenes with jonathan winters you i would in the construct which i guess is randy quaid plays. He's a widower who has three children and and he lives with his dad. Who's jonathan winters so john winters has all these incredible scenes with the kids right the one. I saw he was giving them like terrible. Just making it up right on the spot go away. Somebody was telling me they did a show. With jonathan winters another sitcom he'd have his own camera and the camera would stay on him and it would cause you could never catch and then they'd edit it and it would be inserted. He would do fifteen minutes. It's sad we just had vacation and randy created such a great comic actor and now. I don't know what to the dark world yeah well. Let's risk it sometimes risk if you live out there on the edge isn't i was gonna follow. The dental chair falls over and you along with it. Okay chris has a special way of taking us out. We often go out on a final line and i thought appropriately. Thank you very much for joining us for about your work and forgiving jason and me as well as our listeners a ground truth view of acting as an art a profession and the life. It's it's not that lester. Rosenthal stage name lawrence rose disagreed with the acting teacher when she said do something else with your life. He knew she was right. It was going the life of rejection and humiliation and injustice it is for all of this and that's that he tried to figure out a way to do something else with his life but he couldn't it was in it was in his blood and not a wary was born. This is where lester rosenthal would end up here amongst angst his people thank you for listening to this episode of full cast and crew. I hope you enjoyed it. If so drop us a line you can email us at full cast and crew pod at gmail.com or find us on twitter at at full cast and crew or on instagram foale cast and crew or of course find the podcast on facebook and if you really really enjoyed it take a screen shot of your favorite episode on your podcast player and forty to a friend so so they can subscribe and figure out what you're always laughing about and if you didn't enjoy it i dunno drop his line anyway. I can take it.