Behind the Scenes Minis: Stoker and
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Welcome to stuff you missed in history class a production of iheartradio. Hello and happy Friday I'm holly. And I'm Tracy. Wilson. This week we talked about Bram Stoker. Finally we did and thought we had done it before which we didn't before we did not because let me tell you I sure would have remembered that wall whitman stuff. Yeah. It's pretty great. I is. Is there. Like a compilation of these letters like are the letters. Is defined read because I'm fascinated I, found excerpts of them printed in various books. Different authors have used different ones, but I one to include there is literally part of me. That was like can piece together all of these letters and maybe this episode is just a staged reading of his strange letter and then we'll do a top and a tail on it but that seemed weird I love this idea I want to read a little bit of one. So you understand how sort of odd they were because he did go on and on about how Amazing Walt Whitman was but then like at one point he includes the following passage. I am six feet, two inches high and twelve stone wait naked and used to be forty one or forty two inches around the chest. I am ugly but strong and determined and have a large bump over my eyebrows. I, have a heavy jaw and a big mouth and thick lips. Sensitive nostrils a snub nose and straight hair. This is odd to include in a letter new my opinion and I here's the thing. I. Don't it's funny to me but I also don't WanNa make fun of it because there is an earnestness to it an openness that is kind of refreshing. It's very stream of consciousness. It's just so arresting intone. To have someone speak of himself this way it it's very. I don't know it's a strange thing and it's it's one of those things that a lot of people use as analysis when they talk about whether or not. They believe that he was possibly a latent homosexual or not. That gets into such a tricky area because I feel like I completely understand the desire for representations in to identify people in the Lgbtq a spectrum throughout history to recognize that they have always been part of the world and and part of the things we talk about and but in the case of Bram Stoker, I always feel a little odd about it only because I feel like he didn't know. What was going on with himself? So it it always feels a little bit. This is not what it is but in my heart, the thing that makes me trepidation about it is it almost feels like when you label a child is like. Gifted or you know what I mean, and then the kid doesn't have any say. But that label gets put on them and becomes part of their identity that they have to live up to or or reckon with in Bram Stoker's case it really does seem like he was not coping with a lot of things going on. Subconscious. So there's also a difference between interpreting someone's written body of work and like having things they wrote about their own internal life, right? There's two different things. Yes and people can definitely read work income to profoundly different conclusions than the author intended then when they wrote something like that. Oh. Yeah. So like that that's one of the ways that it gets tricky when somebody's. When somebody doesn't have a lot of introspection. Left behind ray or read well and I think, and that is to say I I. Absolutely. Don't WANNA sound like I am denouncing anybody who looks at Stoker's work with the critical lands of if this is you know in some ways informed by his sexual orientation being one way or the other, and then kind of looking at the text and what that could mean in that way. Sure. It's just the I always feel a little bit strange when people make declarative statements and go he was this guy he might have been, but even he didn't know. Well it also one of the things that's really important to like. Not Assign people, identities that they they did not have access to in their own lives like that gets really tricky Oh yeah. It comes up on the show all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why I have like the almost motherly thing with Bram stoker where I'm like, no no, he didn't. He didn't know. He's like this giant man. I'M THE SUBJECT OF DRACULA I HAVE A SIMILAR RESPONSE TO DRACULA. As I do to the work of HP lovecraft. In general well I, enjoy adaptations of the thing quite a lot and much more than I enjoy reading the thing directly and a big reason for that with Dracula specifically is that Bram stoker would do this thing. He would just have these extended passages that were like a common person in quotation marks speaking in some kind of accented dialect he loves. Series much and for me, personally, it is painful to try to read it. Like in some cases, it's barely comprehensible and I remember I read Dracula I'm actually read it in two different classes in college but for sure one class in college and I just remember slogging through these passages that were like sort of how bram stoker thought this like you know uneducated dockworker talked and I was just like I cannot deal with wires. That is one hundred percent valid. A one for one comparison to lovecraft. But just the fact of like enjoying adaptations more than enjoying reading the thing itself is this still true. Now have you read any of the the supplemental work that his I believe it is his great grand nephew Dacre Stoker. Has Written I. Don't think so he has written some stuff in recent years. That's like some sequel action. And some other supplemental stuff. The actual text of Dracula is also a whole other thing that can be discussed in terms of its own history and what got edited out versus got included again versus republished in a slightly different way. There is The original version and I I haven't done a comparative analysis on any of this but I was reading something that talked about how in the original version despite. Stoker having been so meticulous about these timetables, their timelines that don't add up and that may have been an editor kind of being like, no, no no but not, and then in subsequent versions where it was re edited, and perhaps some of the added back in it makes a little more sense on the time line But I like I said I haven't done a comparative on that, but it's an interesting thing to consider as well as that whole madness with the Icelandic. Powers of darkness is a very enjoyable thing and great for this time of year. So yes, sir the other thing I wanted to mention that is interesting about him. That doesn't get talked about a lot and I didn't go very far down this particular rabbit hole is that as he and his siblings aged his mother Charlotte woj ahead of the suffrage movement kind of became a women's rights activists now which is pretty interesting. The kids she had mostly like home-schooled the kids up until they got to a certain point. And was clearly really really interested in in making sure that you know they were not a super wealthy family they got by and they were fine. But even with her daughter, she was like education is more important than dowry like I. Value yes. She's very interesting and I would love for somebody to do a really deep dig in on her and and do like Barry Lengthy annotated biography I don't know that it will ever happen. Maybe it exists and I just never found it possible. That is our Bram stoker discussion for the week and hopefully was fun addition to the October. Laura that we tend to cover. This week, we have an interview that I did with Dr Catherine Sharp Landeck, which was so long in the works. I alluded to this a little bit in the episode way way back when she came onto the show to talk about the women, Airforce Service pilots, which that is still in the archive. We are not bringing it back as a Saturday classic this month because it's October and I feel like we're just we're doubling down on the Act Tober a little bit this year for the most part. Because I, know for a lot of people. That's their favorite episodes of the year not just holly definitely hollies favorite episodes of the year but every October, we get so many emails from people like I love the October episode so much that like we're we're focusing the Saturdays on Halloween stuff to. you can definitely go find those women airforce for service pilots interviews in the Archive. They are still there but yes, she had mentioned Jackie Cochran shortly after that I was really reluctant because was just afraid it was going to cover too much territory that had already been covered number one. In the earlier episode, the Jackie Cochran appears in she's not in there for that long. It's not that much about her at all. But then number two she was just such a character in so many ways. I. Don't think this came in the interview, but there are accounts of. Some of the people who were flying with the Wasp and they would be at the airfield training and this car would drive up. And Jackie, Cochran, would step out of it just looking so glamorous and like she was in a uniform but still somehow looking so incredibly glamorous. Is I was captivated by her whole story with all of that. The the listener mail that you read in that episode about Santa Nece made me laugh and I didn't want to derail the episode but. We haven't done the last several years but I used to every father's Day my dad and I would go deep sea fishing. and. I have talked about my dad before he's a very no nonsense man and his rule I have mercifully never gotten seasick on one of those trips even though things have gotten dicey for people on board. But the thing that my dad will always say is I don't care if you puke puke off the side. because. If you puke in the back, it's churned up in the wake and then you. You, It just makes me laugh so much thinking about it Yeah. I don't I've never been on a cruise. So I want to go on one just to see if I get seasick or not. Well, we were GONNA but it got cancelled because. is my grandfather on my mom's side who is sadly no longer with us, loved to deep sea fish. So much. But he also had such terrible seasickness that he would literally said his line and then just lie there on the. Until until he needed to do something to attend to it. You really can I love deep sea fishing for me. It's kind of one of the few times you will ever ever see me truly relax Oh. Really. Yeah. Has One I mean I, like being on the water but to so when we go, you know it's a little charter boat and it's like there's no Internet. No, one can email me or call me no yeah. No connection to anything. So all you can do is just hang out. Yeah and it's like my brain just goes all right. I got no recourse. I May as well. Just. Out So on the when I have been on cruises? Cruise ship, you can get an internet packaged usually pretty expensive and very, very slow Internet. and. The first one that I ever went on I paid for an Internet package to be able to check in with work and that I don't know what nothing I was doing was that important? And it took me so long to connect any every time I try to check in with work that I was like I wasted too much of this trip. So it's like I'm not going to do it that way anymore. and. There were a couple of them where I really did totally disconnect. Who knew how contact the ship in case of an actual emergency but I was not having any kind of email or anything like that while I was there and it was really nice to just be like people cannot get to me right now and I'm going to not think about this at all and then the most recent cruise that I took was the opposite of that. As a pandemic was declared in the middle of it and. I was like well, I'm just GONNA so much for relaxing. Yeah I had gotten a cell phone package from my my cell phone provider I gotten a package for use on the cruise ships so that our pet-sitter could update us every day. And I was like well, I'm going to use all of these minutes finding out what's happening with this pandemic and being worried about whether we're going to be able to disembark from this ship which we were indeed able to do. Anyway we had. We talked about that whole story on that whole earlier episode where we talked about the fact that we're living through a pandemic still it's October that was in March. I'm only laughing because. I don't know what else to do. Your. Folks who have emailed us recently have asked whether we are still doing. Okay. You're still doing. Okay. You and I are both very fortunate to be able to do our jobs from home and have minimal contact with other people still, and like I have the double fortunate in having already been set up to do that before we even. Had To. So. we hope our listeners doing as well as possible. Yes indeed. So, if you would like to email us about the Sunni there podcasts for history podcast, iheartradio, dot com rollover social media at the history. Find Our facebook twitter instagram you can subscribe our show on apple podcast iheartradio APP at anywhere else get your podcast. Stuff, you missed in history classes, the production of iheartradio for more podcasts from iheartradio, the iheartradio, APP, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Or with Amino, Brown is a weekly podcast brought to you by Seneca Women podcast network and iheartradio. I'm your host Amina Brown and each week I'm bringing you hilarious storytelling and soulful conversation US censoring the stories of black indigenous lots x Asian woman each week we are going to laugh consider and reflect upon the Times join me as we remind each other to access joy effect change and beat inspired listen to her with Amina Brown on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to be on the be a podcast from iheartradio I'm your host Bobby Brown. 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