To the Hon. Chester A. Arthur; Respectfully, Julia I. Sand
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Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy v Wilson. And I'm Holly try when the eighteen eighties decades before women had the right to vote Julius San wrote a series of letters to president Chester a Arthur, the first before he was even president. I'm those letters might really have influenced his presidency. We'll talk about that a little later this all happened during a period, that's known as the gilded age that term was popularised by Mark Twain to describe a society that was very glittery on the surface. But also rotten underneath, it was a time of reform and progress some of the reformers that we've talked about on the show before where during this period. But there was also a lot of corruption and inequality in a very deeply partisan political process, and this story of Julius, and, and Chester a Arthur connects to all of that, before we get to Julius aunts, letters, we need to talk about Chester a Arthur's career before he became president, and how he wound up in that office. Because her letters, grow out of all of that he was born on October fifth eighteen twenty nine his father William was a minister a teacher, and an abolitionist and the family moved around a lot living in towns, in Vermont New York and Quebec Arthur, who was friends called Chet worked as a teacher and a school principal before moving to New York City to pursue a career in law. One of his first cases was known as the lemon slave case, Jonathon, and Juliet, lemon of Virginia, had brought eight enslaved people with them to New York. They were planning to emigrate to Texas, and they were going to get on a steamer in New York to go to Texas, but New York at that point, had abolished slavery and a judge ordered for the enslaved people that they brought with them to be freed Arthur and William w Evert's successfully represented the state of New York when the ruling was appealed. So the ruling stood that these people should be freed in eighteen fifty-five. Arthur also successful. Vally represented past podcasts subject, Elizabeth Jennings Graham and her discrimination suit against the third avenue railway company. Arthur didn't come from money, then he was always looking for a way to move up the economic ladder to that end in the summer of eighteen fifty seven he went to Kansas which was embroiled in a violent dispute over slavery. In spite of his prior legal work in his family's deep ties to abolition a big motivation, was that he hoped to make money that he was really thinking, he might get into some land, speculation. It wasn't so much about the principles of slavery there. He didn't stay in Kansas, very long, though. He was engaged to a woman named Ellen Herndon who went by Nel who he would later. Mary Nells father was killed on September twelfth eighteen fifty seven when the SS Central America sank off the coast of Cape Hatteras, after a storm after learning that her father had died nil wrote to Chester she asked him to come home, and he did the Central America had. Been carrying gold. That was meant to replenish, the supply in New York banks. So when the ship sank the loss of all that needed gold combined with existing economic issues, set off a financial panic if this sounds familiar, it is the same shipwreck and panic that came up in our Levi, Strauss episode not too long ago. And even though, Arthur's legal work had earned him some respect. He just didn't have the experience or connections to earn a good living as a lawyer during such tumultuous economic times looking for another direction for his career Arthur became more and more involved with New York's Republican political machine, if you're not familiar with that term of a political machine is the political party organization that has a boss or a very small, click of people at the top, and then a hierarchy of deeply loyal officials and supporters extending all through every level of the government and then out into the community. The name comes from the organization's ability to achieve its goals with an almost mechanical efficiency whether that goal. Is enacting some kind of actual change or just staying in power, especially in the nineteenth century, these organizations became synonymous with bribery fraud and corruption. They wanted to stay in power not necessarily because they thought they'd do a better job than someone else. But because they ran the government in a way that personally benefited the boss and his cronies at the same time political machines could inspire genuinely deep loyalty among voters, for example, the boss might hand out food and clothing impoverished neighborhood, making it clear who was to thank for that help. But when that wasn't enough incentive to get voter support the machine might also turn to intimidation, threats and fraud. Arthur got his start in all this working with publisher and Republican boss, Thomas, we'd, he was a huge proponent of what was known as the spoils system. And that system was also connected to the way political machines were working under this system, which is also known as the patronage system, elected. Officials and political bosses routinely handed out jobs to their friends and supporters basically as rewards this bread, a lot of inefficiency and corruption people were being appointed to positions that they really had no qualifications for just because they were connected to somebody in power or people were convinced to support someone in power by being promised job in exchange for that support Arthur's most obvious benefit from the spoil system, was still to come leading up to the civil war. He joined the New York state militia again, more with the hope of advancement than over the issue of slavery. He rose through the ranks and eventually became quartermaster, general, for the state of New York. He also became connected to Edward De Morgen, another Republican who became governor of New York Arthur was increasingly involved in Republican politics, during, and after the war by eighteen seventy Thomas, we'd was getting older than his grip as the boss was slipping moving into his place was Roscoe, conch Ling, who eventually became a Senator. Hitter. Arthur also had connections to William H tweed known as boss tweed, who ran the opposing and also notorious democratic political machine, known as Tammany hall tweed created a job for Arthur working as counsel to the city tax commission. He had an annual salary of ten thousand dollars doing nobody is exactly sure what? Oh, those jobs. Then on December first eighteen seventy one Arthur became the customs collector for the port of New York, president Ulysses s grant appointed him to the position based on the recommendations of Senator conquering, and the previous customs collector, Tom Murphy, Murphy was leaving in disgrace after numerous allegations of fraud criminal activity and firing customs inspectors to replace them with men loyal to Roscoe conquering in spite of this tarnished reputation he was allowed to name his replacement customs collector was an incredibly powerful and very lucrative role in terms of his own pay Arthur was earning as much as eighty thousand dollars a year, which is roughly equivalent to more than half a million dollars today and this included a portion of the fines that were collected and the goods that were received at the port, the federal government made a lot of money at the port to there was no federal income tax. So. Most of the federal government's revenue was coming from customs and most of those customs were coming through New York, collectors. So the government in general, and the customs collector, specifically had a financial incentive to assess fines and fees at the port or to seize goods for reasons that were either overblown or flat out made up Arthur had always had an affinity for nice things. He liked fashionable clothes and find food and good cigars later on after becoming president. He would have Louis comfort. Tiffany completely redecorate the White House and hosts state dinners that required seven different wine glasses for every guest. So this post as customs inspector really let him indulge. His love of finer things as he was taking a cut of all these fines, and the goods that were moving through the port some of those fines, and seized goods being just for completely fabricated reasons. People called him the gentlemen, boss. The role also put Arthur in a good position to do favors. For his cronies like waving their shipments through the port without their having to pay collected bribes and seized goods were passed around the Republican political machine Arthur also requested that his employees's, donate to his faction of the Republican party known as the stalwarts in this was supposedly voluntary but not really civil service rules, implemented, in eighteen seventy two banned these types of political contributions, but Arthur continued to request them, anyway, that cut of the revenue that Arthur personally got also disappeared. In eighteen seventy four after congress passed the anti Moity act that act followed an investigation into a fine that was assessed that fine was for more than two hundred seventeen thousand dollars and it had been levied against the firm of Phelps dodge Arthur, and several of his cronies had all gotten a share of this fine, Arthur's cut of it was more than twenty one thousand dollars. But it turned out that. The fine was almost entirely fraudulent corruption was threaded, all through American politics at this point, but Arthur developed a reputation for being particularly corrupt plus two Republican factions the moderates, and the stalwarts were increasingly at odds with each other after moderate Republican rather behaves succeeded grant as president in an incredibly contentious election. He nominated Theodore Roosevelt, senior to take Arthur's place as customs collector, but the stalwart faction of the Senate repeatedly voted against confirming him and Roosevelt died of stomach cancer with the matter still unsettled, Arthur was finally suspended from the job on July eleventh eighteen seventy eight during his campaign Redford behaves had pledged to spend only one term in office, so at the end of that term the Republican party needed to find a new candidate to run in the eighteen eighty presidential election, the stalwarts preferred former president grant and the moderates worried that. Reelecting gra-. Rant would cause more division, especially since that would mean he was returning to office for a third term. We haven't gotten into it, but his earlier terms, had a lot of the types of corruption that we've been talking about the anti grant wing of the party wound up splitting their votes between two candidates before eventually rallying around James a Garfield after thirty six rounds of voting. Garfield finally became the party's nominee Arthur was selected as his running mate, mostly to appease, the stalwarts and with the hope of getting votes from the state of New York in the election. Arthur accepted the nomination even though he was still grieving from the recent death of his wife. Thinking of the whole thing is an honor and a possible chance at redemption. This wasn't a particularly popular move, though, almost immediately rumors started to spread that Arthur had not been born in the United States that he was from Canada, or from his father's birthplace of Ireland, and this was not eligible to be vice president, this was such a convoy. Looted and weird and fascinating story. We're going to have a whole podcast on it later her AA in the end. Garfield won the election, but on July second eighteen eighty one not quite four months after his inauguration. He was shot by Charles j ghetto police immediately, apprehended ghetto who proclaimed, quote, I did it and I will go to jail for it. I am a stalwart an Arthur is now, president ghettos behavior, and statements were odd Radic beyond just the fact that he had shot the president, and he's often described as a disappointed office seeker, because he had been repeatedly turned away while trying to get an appointment as an ambassador. He was so persistent that the secretary of state, eventually ordered him to leave and never come back. But Chester a Arthur was Matori is in this whole system of spoils and cronyism. So in his convoluted logic and disordered thinking, ghetto seems to have thought if Arthur were president, he would get a job. And that's where Julia sand finally comes into this picture. We will get to her after a quick sponsor break. A ghandi. And if you're gearing up for summer, Macy's has a fashion blog called the edit to keep you on trend. And fashionable. Thank you Macy's pick up some new duds stay on turned in store or online at macys dot com slash the edit personally. I'm obsessed with the bold head to toe color a love yellow orange. Cobalt fuchsia and the other thing that's in this season is tied. I so that excites me as well. Pick up some new diets in stay on turned in store or online at macys dot com slash the edit and checkout. Macy's the at it for more summer fashion trends. President James Garfield live for nearly eighty days after being shot on July second eighteen eighty one. And during that time Chester a Arthur was at best kind of freaked out. He had not really even considered that he could become president, when he accepted the nomination just being the vice president was almost beyond the scope of his imagination. Arthur was on a boat that was taking him from Albany back to New York when the shooting happened as the boat was passing by a peer someone shouted across the water, the Garfield had been assassinated, one of Arthur's colleagues on deck heard, this, and came to the saloon to given the news and Arthur literally crumpled into his chair. In addition to saying Arthur is now president, Charles ghetto had told the officers who apprehended him that Arthur, quote, and all those men were his friends, and that ghetto would have the arresting officers made chief of police people had already been suspicious of Arthur's. Character. And then these bizarre statements that Atto was making. We're leading people to wonder whether the vice president had orchestrated this shooting. The general reaction in the press was stunned horror, both to the shooting into the idea that Arthur was going to become president. The Chicago Tribune called it a calamity so did former president Rutherford b Hayes in the word, calamity seems to be the one virtually everyone gravitated toward when describing a potential Arthur presidency that Arthur really didn't do much to try to take control of the narrative, he had always been extremely secretive. When it came to the press, so rather than making some kind of statement or stepping into lead is the president was incapacitated. He mostly hid. He was also afraid to assume the president's duties because he justifiably worried that it might reinforce the idea that he had been behind the shooting in a brief visit to Washington DC. He told the president's cabinet quote, I pray to. God that the president will recover. God knows I do not want the place. I was never elected to as quickly as he could he went back to New York. And then just tried to stay out of the spotlight as all of this was happening. Roscoe conquering was also in the news. He had resigned his Senate seat along with the other Senator from New York, in an attempt to derail the confirmation of Garfield choice for once again, the New York City customs collector, he hoped that the New York legislature would return him to office after he had done this, and the media was sure that if that happened and the president died, not only would there, be this calamitous Arthur presidency. But also the notorious Roscoe, conquering would really be running everything from behind the scenes thirty one year old Julius sand. It was following all of this with bated breath. Julia was the youngest child of Christian Henry sand, who had immigrated from Germany and Isabela. Julia carter. Christian sand had gone on to become president of metropolitan gaslight company of New York. So the family was well off and cultured. Julia had at least nine siblings, and in eighteen eighty one she and several family members were living at seventy six east seventy fourth street and a home that her brother owned she was educated and unmarried, one of her relatives would later describe her as a blue stocking, which was slang for an intellectual woman. She was also chronically ill. It's really not clear what her diagnosis might have been, but she had problems with her spine and a number of illnesses, that sometimes left her unable to leave her room at other times, though, she was well enough to travel to some of the areas. More fashionable resorts in springs to try to regain her health. You might describe Julius sand as a political junkie. She didn't have the right to vote, and there were no women in New York state legislature or the federal government, but she devoured political news, and she was informed about candidates and elected officials and about the issues of the day. In on August. I eight hundred eighty seven she wrote Chester a Arthur, a seven page letter. It began in part, quote the hours of Garfield life are numbered before this meets your eye. You may be president. The people are bound and grief. But do you realize it? Not so much because he is dying as because you are his successor what president ever entered office under circumstances. So sad, the day he was shot thought Rosena thousand mines that you might be the instigator of the foul act is that not a humiliation, which cuts deeper than any bullet can Pierce, then she went on to say, quote, but making a man president can change him great emergencies. Awaken generous traits, which have lain dormant half a life. If there is a spark of true nobility in you now is the occasion to let it shine faith in your better nature, forces me to write to you, but not to beg you to resign do. What is more difficult and more brave? Reform? It is not the proof of highest goodness. Never to have done wrong, but it is a proof of it. Sometime in one's career to pause and ponder to recognize the evil to turn resolutely against rise to the emergency, disappoint our fears and this letter sand. Also imagine what might happen if Arthur were shot. She wrote that no one would pray for his wellbeing. As so many people were doing at that moment for Garfield instead, she thought the American people would probably think they were well rid of him. This letter was incredibly direct and forward, especially considering that sand and Arthur, we're total strangers to one another. She didn't pull any punches about how disliked to distrust it, he was and how justified those perceptions were, but she also bolstered him up in imagined a world in which Arthur left, all of the wheeling and dealing, and corruption of the Republican political machine behind him when sand wrote this letter Garfield conditions seemed. Relatively stable, but also was not really improving, but then in the middle of August after being moved from the humid and swampy capital to long branch New Jersey. He took a sudden turn for the worse on September nineteenth, it became clear that he would not survive. Arthur got a telegram, from the attorney general informing him of this, which led him to shut himself up in his home later that evening after some of his colleagues arrived Arthur, left and went for a walk by himself at about eleven thirty that night when Arthur was back at home, a reporter, brought him the news that the president had died Arthur's response was this, quote, oh, no. It cannot be true. It cannot be. I have heard nothing after he got a telegram, confirming that, yes, it was true. He went to his room and wept in the early morning hours of September twentieth. Eighteen eighty one Arthur composed himself New York's supreme court judge. John r Brady arrived at about two thirty in the. Warning to administer the oath of office. A formal public inauguration was held in Washington DC, two days later and he got his next letter from Julia sand about a week after that. And we're gonna talk more about that after we have a little sponsor break. Hey, it's April Cassidy and if you're gearing up for summer, Macy's has a fashion blog called the edit to keep you up today on your summer wardrobe for me summer is all about color. So check out the edit for bold head to, to looks and yellows oranges, co bolts, and fuchsias, you know, cast I wear a lot of vintage. So I think is really, really fun to mix in a bright shoe or a bright, handbag to kind of instantly gives them a my favorite pieces that I wear all year round a fresh new summer look and don't worry guys, the edit did not forget about you bold floral prints are the go-to menswear right now. If you're ready to step up your summer looks it's as easy as heading in store. Online at macys dot com slash edit, so pick up some color in store or online at macys dot com slash edit. Julius fans next letter to Chester Arthur, she wrote about what she saw as the unique nature of his grief over the president's death. She noted that Garfield 's wife and family were all going through, what ordinary families had weathered for all of human history, Arthur's grief on the other hand also carried the weight of his new found and unasked for responsibility. She wrote, quote, what we all endured during the terrible months of anxiety just past U2. endured intensified thousandfold by the reflection that you were the one human being to benefit by his death that you had been opposed to him that some believed you capable of having plotted for his cruel end you were alone in your sorrow perfectly isolated. She went on to praise his conduct during those last weeks of Garfield life in which he had by all appearances voided scandal in anxiously hoped for the late president's recovery. She suggested that people's opinions of him might be chain. Changing, but Arthur's presidency got off to an inconsistent. Start as we mentioned earlier in the show. He wanted to renovate and redecorate, the White House before moving in Louis comfort. Tiffany's team removed thirty barrels of China and twenty four wagons full of furniture in the process, which people considered extravagant he continued to associate with Republican stalwarts, especially when he made trips back to New York leading people to wonder whether their worst fears for an Arthur, presidency would turn out to be true thune, though, he started shifting direction when conquering demanded that Arthur replaced, the customs collector for New York with someone of his choosing Arthur, refused, not long after he took up the cause of civil service reform people had already been trying to reform the civil service system before Garfield assassination. But while most people had concluded that Utah was mentally ill. They also thought that this very corrupt and favouritism based civil. Service system was at the heart of his illness. Consequently after Garfield 's death civil service reform became a major political issue with Arthur, who was a man who had directly benefited from the existing system, being one of its champions sand praise. This commitment in her letters sands letters ranged from almost casual conversation to specific matters of policy on October twenty seventh eighteen eighty one she wrote a letter in which she named herself his quote, little dwarf, a reference to the idea that a court jester who often had some form of dwarfism was the only person with the power to speak the truth to the monarch in another letter in the fall of that year. She suggested that Arthur come to visit her. She also discouraged him from visiting his old political cronies in New York, and encouraged him to take care of his health in the fall of eighteen eighty two she told him, quote, remember that you are president of the United States, work, only for the good of the country when the first version of the. Chinese exclusion act, which banned immigration from China to the United States passed congress sand, urged Arthur to veto it, which he did on April fourth eighteen eighty two calling its terms, quote, a breach of our national faith after that, sand wrote to him that the veto delighted her, although her letter also revealed her own prejudices, it said, quote, I sent for a horse and there, being no heathen Chinese around showed by superiority to race prejudice by taking a colored fellow being out to drive. He never thanked me though. And probably expects to be rewarded such as the demoralizing effect of civil rights, humans are complicated. Congress tried and failed to override Arthur's veto of the Chinese exclusion act, and then passed a revised version that restricted immigration from China for ten years rather than twenty Arthur, signed that version into law on may six eighteen eighty two sand did not disguise her anger over this saying. Quote. When you vetoed the Chinese Bill, the better class of people throughout the country were delighted now you sign it. And what is the difference as it now stands in quantity less, but in quality, just as idiot in unnecessary? As the first the czar of Russia might well respond to your remonstrance against the persecution of the Jews with an expostulated against the persecution of the Chinese dish. She was like this Bill is almost exactly the same as the previous one except that it shorter. You deal. Not long after that, congress passed the rivers and harbors act of eighteen eighty two which marks nineteen million dollars for things like lighthouse upkeep and navigational buoy, but the act was also viewed as funneling, a lot of money into the hands of corrupt local authorities when Arthur vetoed it sand wrote to praise his decision, saying that she was deeply moved by his taking such a correct action under such huge pressure from congress to do the opposite. This time though congress did overturn the president's veto also in eighteen eighty two federal prosecution began in the star route scandal, which was a bribery fraud and corruption scandal connected to mail delivery, basically as the United States expanded westward mail delivery needed to expand along with it. The federal government contracting with private carriers to handle these long remote, western routes this looped back around to the spoil system with the contract process just. Retooled with bribery, and corruption and cronyism including contracts being issued for routes that didn't exist and contractors that didn't actually do the work that they were being paid to do the first investigations into this had started under president grant in eighteen seventy two but it was during Arthur's administration that this corruption ring was finally shut down. There was a whole series of federal prosecutions as the investigations and the trials were going on. Sand advised Arthur to quote suffer for the sake of truth, and eighteen eighty two was also the year that Chester a Arthur visited Julius sand. He went to her home in New York on August twentieth of that year. His sudden appearance rendered her speechless something. She chastised herself for in letter. She wrote later on, although they did discuss some of his recent political decisions while he was there. She was also highly vexed that her entire family happened to be at home that day and dominated the president's visit in a later letter. Sam suggested. That she hoped for another visit maybe this time she could paint the president's portrait on January. Sixteenth, eighteen eighty three Arthur signed the Pendleton civil service act which was the nation's first comprehensive civil service for foreign Bill. It made the selection of certain government employees, the responsibility of the civil service commission, not of officeholders themselves. Exams were also implemented to encourage hiring that was based on merit instead of favouritism. The bill's scope was limited it only covered Washington-based federal jobs, along with customs houses and post offices, that had more than fifty employees. This was only about ten percent of federal jobs, although subsequent administrations have expanded the scope of this act dramatically fans letters, reveal her pleasure at his signing this Bill into law, but also some skepticism about whether he would uphold its terms this reflected, the prevailing attitude among the general public as well. Because with Arthur's history, it was really hard to believe that he was committed. To the Bill that he had signed. But as the summer of eighteen eighty three war on, he started assembling, this new commission, and avoiding his own political cronies, as he was doing that knee also started implementing, all those reform measures that he had promised sand wrote her last known letter to Arthur on September fifteenth eighteen eighty three Arthur's presidency continued until March fourth eighteen eighty five if he ever wrote, her back, she never mentioned it. And no such letter survives. So we don't really know whether these letters directly influenced Arthur's decisions as president, but his actions, very strongly suggest that they mattered to him early in his presidency. He had been diagnosed with Bright's disease, which was used to describe various types of nephritis, there was no effective treatment or cure. And by the time he got sands last known letter he was exhausted. And in severe pain, Arthur made kind of a half-hearted campaign for re election, but the Republican party did not select him. Mm as its candidate this ended a complicated and definitely not altogether positive presidency. But it also was not at all the presidency that anyone had expected when he took the oath of office. P died on November eighteenth. Eighteen eighty six the day before he died Arthur ordered his son to burn his personal papers, almost certainly because he was ashamed and embarrassed over his earlier political career, Chester a Arthur junior supervised, the filling, and refilling of three burn barrels, adding new papers as the previous batch burn down, but Twenty-three letters from Julius sand were set aside in a special envelope labelled in Arthur's handwriting, Julius and died in may of nineteen thirty three at the age of eighty three. She was buried at Greenwood cemetery. In Brooklyn, four years later, Chester a Arthur junior died, and Chester a Arthur, the third who went by Gavin inherited what remained of his grandfather's papers. He. Became intensely curious about these Twenty-three letters from Julius sand and their special offer loop on February tenth nineteen thirty eight. He placed an ad in the New York Herald Tribune to see if he could find any of sands relatives. He finally heard from a nephew, who had actually been there on the day of the president's visit this nephew, suggested that sand had kept her letters to Arthur, a secret from family and friends, and that the family had no idea why the president would have visited them in about nineteen ten the library of congress undertook an extensive search for any of Arthur surviving papers at that point. The library only had two documents that bore his signature over the next few decades at gathered, a small collection largely from the descendants of Arthur's, correspondence, but also from Gavin Arthur, the library obtained, Julius sands letters in nineteen fifty eight Gavin Arthur left the remainder of his father's and grandfather's papers to the library upon his own death in nineteen seventy-two. He. The last surviving descendant of president Chester. Arthur, we'll end on a quote from sands letter of August. Twenty eighth eighteen eighty two which really sums up how Julia Sam saw herself. She was a quote poor little woman who has always been the youngest of her family who consequently, if she lives to be fifty will always be treated like a child, who would have no comfort in life, if she could not occasionally scold some very big man. I like the idea that was like Noam scolding this very big man. But I'm definitely doing it anyway. Do you have any scolded listener mail Goldie at all? This is a very recent listener mail. That's mostly about a much older episode, but I wanted to read it because it connects to something that we said today, it's from J J starts off talking a little bit about some kitties. Jason. Hi, Holly and Tracy. Let me start off by saying that my husband and I and our four cats are huge fans of yours. Our middle cat Pippen is so sassy and full of spunk that we've taken to calling her Pippen, fry our youngest cat olive is called olive e Wilson because she's the quieter more reserved one we obviously have too much time on her hands, especially in winter. I find that I'll story very charming. I do to my family and I live on a small farm in north central Minnesota. It gets bitterly cold here in late winter. And when it does I always give your schoolhouse blizzard of eighteen eighty eight episode. Another listen, I love this episode. My farm is nestled in the rolling hills and lakes of Minnesota's central lakes region. I can count at least three one room schoolhouses within a ten mile radius of my home since I live in an area that was hit hard by the blizzard, it's natural, that I'm drawn to this topic. I've seen a few blizzards since moving to Minnesota, but nothing on a scale of eight hundred eighty eight blizzard, the thought of going through that experience with nothing about horses buggies, oil lamps and no modern forms of communication is horrifying to me. It must have felt like the end of the world. Anytime someone in the area. Asks me about the blizzard, I always drew them to your episode possible episode idea. I've searched the archive and can find nothing related to Louis comfort, Tiffany stained glass guy, not his father, the jewelry designer. You should put him on your list of possible episodes. I'm an amateur stained glass artists, and I really admire the windows of lamps of Tiffany, most people know of Tiffany, lamps. But what they don't realize is that the majority of these lamps were designed and constructed by a team of women called the Tiffany, girls Clara Driscoll was the head of the women's department within the last ten years. It's been revealed that she and her Tiffany, girls, not Louis Tiffany were responsible for the designs of many of Tiffany's most iconic lamps, take a dive into the topic. If you get some time, keep up the good work, you guys make our days, a little more, brighter shea, and also Eric. Thank you so much shea. And Eric for sending this note, it was a total coincidence, that this came in over the weekend. I was working on this episode where we talk about the president just Ray Arthur, having Louis comfort, tippety, totally redecorate, the White House. But he actually wound up on my topic to do list. I think it was late last year where it just seemed like every time I turned around somebody was talking about Louis comfort, Tiffany, I went to a thing called history camp. And there was somebody there that was talking about a historic building restoration here in Boston. That was an entire decoration work done by Louis comfort, Tiffany and then shortly thereafter, I was walking through town. And one of the churches that has all the stained glass windows, done by Tiffany was allowing people to come in and look at the windows, and like he just kept coming up over and over, and it was, like I feel like the universe is telling me to do a podcast on Louis comfort, Tiffany. So I don't know when that might happen, but he is on my list. I'm still very honored that a kitty is, you know, in any way referred to with my name, it's my book. Yeah. I have a cat named after I've two cats named after two of my favorite imagine ears at Disney and I know what an honor it was in my opinion. Names. So it means a great deal to me. Also, we split those cats up over which ones, we think are like me, and which ones are like my husband. So I understand this logic completely that doesn't sound like too much time on your hands to me at all. No, we currently have no cats in my household, but we are currently hoping to change that in the relatively near future. If you would like to write to us about your kitties. Podcast or just to say, hi, we're history podcast, but how stuff works dot com, and then we're all over social media missed in history. That is where you'll find our Facebook, Pinterest, Instagram Twitter, all that stuff. You can come to our website, which is missed in history dot com and find the show notes for all the episodes, highly, and I have worked on together and a searchable archive of every episode ever and you can subscribe to our show on iheartradio app or apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Stuffy missed in history classes, a production of iheartradio's. How stuff works for more podcasts for my heart radio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And Danny Shapiro, my new podcast family secrets, just wrapped up its first season. And it's filled with stories about the secrets that are kept from us secrets that we keep from others and the secrets, we keep from ourselves if you've been waiting for the right time to binge them all now's your chance. Check out the episodes of almost bonus interviews, and stories and keep an ear out for the next season in August. You can find out more at family secrets podcasts dot com, and you can listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts.