The Rise of RCA
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It's a perfect time to update to Windows ten with huge deals on business computers featuring Intel L. core processors plus free shipping on everything Cole Small Business Technology advisers who can help you achieve your business goals affordably with low monthly payments on the right tech- for you just call eight seven seven seven buydell that's eight seven seven by Dell or visit Dell Dot com slash business deals for semi annual savings <music> welcome to business on the brink of production from IHEART radio and how stuff works <music> zipping through the air the speed of light radio broadcasts were on the verge of changing communications for ever but even in the early days ace there was some static in the signal as the United States government worried about who controls the transmissions concern over national security led to an effective monopoly that tuned into what listeners wanted to year this is RCA on business on the brink. Everybody <hes> Jonathan Strickland. I'm Ariel casten and welcome come to business on the brink and today we're GonNa talk about. RCA this was a listener requests. Ashley wrote in to ask us to cover our C. A. and it's really interesting one. I've talked about RCA before in another podcast and <hes> it's partly I think interesting because unlike any other company we've covered so far on this show this was one that started off as monopoly not just a monopoly but a government sanctioned monopoly it was the covenants idea but in order to understand how we got to that point like why did this exist. We have to look at a little bit of background first of all. RCA is an initial ism mm-hmm okay so if it's an initial what is it Stanford Jonathan Radio Corporation of America which will come into play later when they changed their name to a point where it becomes funny to me but I think corporations now not going to say they're funny. It gets it gets funnier trust but technically they celebrated turning earning one hundred years old in two thousand nineteen. which is the year that we are recording this episode well? That sounds like a pretty great accomplishment to me. It would be if it was still a company but it hasn't been since nineteen eighty-six kind of like United Artists United Artists Yeah. We'll we'll talk more about L. The ultimate fate of RCA in the next episode. Oh I guess I should say that to spoiler alert. This is going to be a two part episode because we wanted to talk one about. RCA's meteoric rise helped in no small part by the fact that it was the only game in town but we want to talk about how it established itself and and moreover how the leader of our ca really established RCA as a power player in not just radio and in radio equipment business but business in general and then the second episode we'll talk about what done went wrong. Dunton Dunn's Oh <hes> this is where we get into the history and how the United States created our C. or at least allowed RCA to be created all right so I guess what happened were they. Did they create the very first radio. No no so here's what happens you've got the discovery of Radio Right which is outside the parameters of this show so I'm not going to go total geek on you and talk about thank you John but I could hood thank you John. So if you're not good I will do it okay. I'm I will be good. Okay all right so radio. Discovered people start figuring out applications wins for radio. They start using it to be a wireless communications tool where they could transmit morse code over radio waves. Previously Morse Code was transmitted over wires so that's that's primarily what radio is being used for in the early nineteen hundreds around the world. It was being used as communication. No one was using it to broadcast audio apart from the Morse Code <hes> clicks in whips which barely counts as audio. Yes yeah once in a while people would experiment with it but it was not a thing yet so we didn't even have pirate radio at this point. No no you just had blips as people were sending messages across across vast distances. Now there was a company that was a big big player in this radio communication space called Marconi named after after one of the disputed inventors of radio. You know who the other big disputed inventor radio was right Tesla. Yes I also WanNa must say <hes>. Jonathan did most of the research on this episode when I read it. I thought it said the macaroni company I was may have within a couple of places because my sometimes I make typos and correct them. I was just hungry and a little confused so okay so so yeah. Marconi the Marconi company's created created and it owns a bunch of radio transmission stations in the United States and again. This is really just for sending messages telegrams so here's the issue. The Marconi company was a British owned company. There was not an American company and I know one had a problem with that but then a little thing started to happen <hes> in the late nineteen <hes> tens era and that little thing was is called at the time the Great War in retrospect they call it. I First World War World War One. I guess it's also so called that so World War One breaks out in Europe and this is where the United States government starts to get a little nervous because because you have a vital communications network within the borders of the United States but it is owned and operated by by a foreign company but an ally even so and so there was a lot of fear that communications could be uncompromised that it could result in spies spying on American intelligence. That's passing through if it's if it's passing through a foreign owned owned companies system there was no way of knowing that the official communication's through the US government. We're going to be safe. I see <hes> so do they just cut us off from all other radio communications. No they kind of went even more crazy paranoid than that so I shouldn't didn't say crazy paranoid. It was definitely ruthless so I you have the United States Navy saying that you know what we're GONNA do. We're going to have have <hes> the WE'RE GONNA enforce an executive order that President Woodrow Wilson signed <hes> and that <hes> that order was giving the Navy Authority to censor communications communications that were passing through the Marconi network so as you can imagine if you're a communications company censorship is not something you want to have happen. You don't obviously it would cast doubt on your ability to fulfil your promise to your customers so the Marconi company says this don't sound right so they challenged okay all right so it seems reasonable yeah yeah you're thinking like well that that you gotta take some steps to protect your business this can't be legal <hes> the navy ended up responding reading in a very reasonable way by shutting down all US operations of Marconi in nineteen fifteen for about three months that it's Kinda like hi Terry narrow definition of reasonable. It's like my threat that I would go into talking about the invention of radio hits. It's sort of you know the definite the stick not the carrot and <hes> they decided that it was too risky to trust that Marconi would obey the the executive order the the the authority at the Navy's supposedly had to censor them so they took all the assets the North American assets towers hours in the station. Yes all the all. The equipment being used to transmit communications. The government said this is no longer yours so this is a case ace where the US government effectively wrested the corporate assets of another of a foreign owned business away from that business. I okay so what does that even accomplish. Okay <hes> well for one thing failed the US military had its own communication system. I mean 'cause Marconi didn't have neymar. I'm pretty sure they were already more coating each other right now but now they could do it wirelessly cool and also also more importantly from national security standpoint. I mean I would argue that. This was definitely a crazy case of overreach <hes> yeah but this also met from national security standpoint which is it's hard to argue it did make the country more secure against foreign spies as you know for espionage from a from <hes> sabotage of communications networks. I mean I guess it's better to be overcautious than not cautious enough during a time during a time before but it is it's tough because you think about that. If we heard a story today about the United States government taking over. Let's say that it's a <music> a social network that was owned by a company that existed outside the United States and it's at a point where we're seeing a lot of chatter on social networks <hes> that the government might say well. We're GONNA shut either. Shut down access to this or we're going to somehow rest control role of facilities in the United States that belong to this company that would there'd be a riot there would be all right but I mean eventually the war is over right yes and then we can just return it no no they. They decided that what that it'd be better. If an American company owned it rather than a foreign company like well we could make an arrangement to return this to the formerly rightful owners of the equipment but if this should it happened again. We'll just have to take it back. Why don't we just create an all American organization to oversee it. Oh Man Poor Marconi well poor tesla tesla for everybody yeah <hes> so <hes> the decision was made that there needed to be an American American company or organisation to oversee these various broadcast stations and other assets so they a console consulted with a group of companies that together formed a partnership that would create this organization and those companies were huge. It's still are huge names. I'll radio companies right. Well all sorts of companies that were somewhat connected to the radio industry in that they would make the stuff that rate. Hughes would either PL- like the radio would play on her transmit through so they had a vested interest. Obviously these are companies that were making either either products or services that the radio industry would depend upon so it's almost like saying to Coca Cola like let's say all right coca-cola. You make soft drinks. We're GONNA make you in charge of all distribution of soft drinks throughout the United States and coca-cola says that's great all right so I know one of the companies is because it came into play in our CBS episode and that's Westinghouse dipped westinghouse was one western electric General Electric at and T. and the United Fruit company. How one of these things is not like the other? I you need your energy to Morse Code. People Jonathan Okay so full of energy. Here's the thing about the United Fruit company that that story is crazy. We'll have to do an episode about United Fruit Company at some point because you've heard you've probably have you ever heard the phrase <music> a like a Banana Republic okay. I've bought some of their close enough now. I've heard the phrase but have you also heard of things like banana wars. Yes okay so if you start looking into those things and you look at the conflict and the the controversy of American businesses in tropical regions and hell they destabilized entire regions in order to do business united fruit trade company are the United Fruit company rather comes up a lot in those but for the importance of this episode they also owned and operated their own radio and Telegraph company so that's why they were brought in on this as well and why this company that would otherwise seem like an outlier was an important part okay so all these companies companies come together and they are yup. They do that and by nineteen nineteen. RCA is a thing general electric would be the primary sorry owner of this organization not the sole owner but had like a majority shares essentially and <hes> in order to avoid having any problems with each other they all agreed they would cross licensed their individual patents to this company so that way no one a partner in the in the in the group would say oh no you can't use this particular technology unless you pay US X. amount of money and then we'll let you do seems reasonable so this way no one could hold out on anyone else that was the premise anyway <hes> and they then and had to figure out who is going to be the leader obviously. Marconi Tesla okay neither of those first of all neither them neither of them were considered search fit to be to own a company to run a company in <hes> in America at that time so no they turned to someone else who also would have seemed unlikely if you had just had a cursory look at his history and that was a man named David Smirnoff Sarnoff so close. I'm sorry I've very little sleepy. Guys Yeah Extra Funds. I made me look to make sure I didn't end up writing smirnoff okay. Please don't please please don't okay okay sarnoff. He he becomes the general manager and the reason he was general manager. Not President is that. RCA was not really independent company yet. It was this kind of group concern concern so is a weird it. It occupied a weird space in the in the spectrum that we look at for corporations yeah yeah because it was a it was a partnership. It was an organization. It was sort of a company I mean INC was in its name but Sarnoff was considered a general manager because it was operating under the auspices of these larger shadowy partners in the background aren't so Sarnoff was interesting because he was originally born born in Russia. Not In the United States. His family did immigrate to the states when he was just a boy though it wasn't like he had grown up and then and then immigrated upgraded to the United Steel he wasn't living in Russia. When he took over the company that would defeat the purpose keeping would've said hey what's up really? We're actually the really it would have been the the British company owners of the Marconi company. Say Excuse me what in fact is up quite understand what's going on is but <hes>. SARNOFF had been a kind of in the business since he was a child as a teenager. He worked as a messenger boy for a telegraph company. He then worked his way up to becoming an actual telegraph operator and he worked for the American Marconi company. The same one that the United States arrested all its assets from so I mean it feels to me like that's not succession planning but still a very wise move he's already already familiar why and he had proven himself to be incredibly ambitious and innovative he had quickly risen through the ranks over over at the <hes> American Marconi company so he was really like a good candidate like he he knew his stuff and he seemed like the kind of guy who was going to just push this this business to greater heights and in fact that's exactly what he would do and you have this note here that he even picked up a distressing from the titanic well. That's what he said Yeah. He claimed that in nineteen twelve he was one of the radio operators who picked up the titanic's Tannock's distress signals there were other reports that disputed that and said what he actually picked up was a response to the titanic's distress distress call so he picked up one of the rescue ships responses so <hes> he however would relay the story as being him him like sat he said it as a Telegraph Office for like twenty six hours straight or whatever okay this is a sidetrack. Let's let's get back to serve his partners so the two two businesses that he was really focusing on early on were <hes> essentially wireless communications so again it's still telegraphs and <hes> which would mean building out more towers and stations to build out more orvin infrastructure for that communication system in the United States and through its partners that was selling industrial radio equipment so we're talking thing about like against stuff for the transmission and reception of radio waves on a major scale not like radio sets that you would buy take home in tune in and but rather these were again the component parts for communication system and it's important to say that because at this point. RCA's is not making stuff for the general consumer but one of the interesting things about technology is that when a new technology starts to blossom blossom regular ordinary schmos part of it yeah they WANNA THEY WANNA learn how it works. They want to get interested. They're fascinated by it and has it turns out building a radio. It requires a little bit of knowledge but not a whole lot in materials and so you started seeing people building their own radios and you saw the rise of a new species the amateur radio operator all right well <hes> tech guy. You're gonNA bring talk about that but first. We're GONNA take a quick break. Dell has something extra for small businesses up to forty five percent off during their semi annual sale. It's a perfect time to update to Windows ten with huge deals on business computers featuring Intel core processors plus free shipping on everything thing coal small business technology advisers who can help you achieve your business goals affordably with low monthly payments on the right tech- for you just call eight seven seven by Dell. That's 877-buy-dell Adele or visit Dell dot com slash business deals for semi annual savings all right so tell us more about this immature radio boom well it had had a bit of a delay on it because during World War One the United States said no because they wanted the airwaves clear for official communication's but once that was over the the ban lifted on October first nineteen nineteen <hes> and now the General Public Blake was starting to get interested at least the hobbyists in the general public are starting to get interested in radios and then on top of that. You had westinghouse one one of the partners bind. RCA that wanted to make radio sets for the general public but here's the problem. How do you convince somebody to go out and buy a radio JIO set you give them a free puppy with it. That's one way but I mean like you asked me that question childcare. That's how we get. You'd buy radio set but before the general public the problem was that were you. GonNa listen to Right. There's nothing there's nothing to listen to beeps and move are not yeah. DOTS and dashes are not very entertaining so so it meant that Westinghouse said well we need to do is create a station that would broadcast something that a radio that could pick up and play play and this is where you're talking about actually broadcasting speech and music real audio to these stations now a radio sets now to be clear on experimental level. This has already been done it wasn't like Westinghouse was inventing the radio set but no-one had done it on beyond the hobbyist level or beyond a couple of sort of almost like pr stunts yet but I mean he set up an actual radio station in nineteen twenty. They created a they got the licensed to operate the first <hes> radio broadcast station a this was where it was all new. The United States is having to come up with away to license the stuff because no one had done it before. The radio station was K. D. K. A. N. Pittsburgh Pennsylvania represent yeah I guess they're y'all and <hes> it went live on November second nineteen twenty and Sarnoff. RCA were not part of this yet okay but SARNOFF and I've had already proposed in his earlier work at the Marconi company something called a <hes> he was calling radio music box which was essentially a radio Cetin <music> so this was very much in line with things that he had been thinking about for years so he thought let's create more demand for radio sets. He arranged for the radio broadcast of a sporting event. which was the boxing match between? Jack Dempsey those world famous boxing champion <hes> MHM and he was going up against George Carpentier. There was a French boxer who had a reputation for knocking out British boxing champions also dipsy in this one oddly enough was considered the villain even though he was American and this was a fight that was going to happen on American soil he he was considered to be the villain of this boxing match. You know often we think in terms in that way and it was because he did not fight in world war. One but carpentier did interesting yeah <hes> Dempsey would win by knockout in the fourth round so bad guy wins all right anyway. RC A within <hes> <hes> try to leverage this to sell more radios sets and started to work so then you start to see entrepreneurs across across the United States establish their own radio stations and this was early on so radio stations were largely independent. They were just I was a a regional thing. They had a wide range of transmission power so in some cases you might only transmit a few miles others that might be a full region so that that means that you didn't have to listen to a lot of commercials on your radio right well especially early on you didn't because it was such a new idea but eventually got to the point where it was sponsored content and so you would have a company say all right well. We will offer to pay for the production of this radio content. If in turn you'll say our rename every X. Number minutes <hes> and then eventually you would actually get to radio advertising so radio commercials would start to become a thing by nineteen twenty twenty two and then by nineteen twenty four there are more than six hundred radio stations in the United States took off yeah so RCA's doing business like like gangbusters because again they're selling the actual transmission components so they're doing really well and then their various partners are selling. I love the the radio sets so everyone's happy great and his story. No we got whole much more to talk about but then sarnoff office thinking all right well what if we create a network of radio stations so not just these independent ended stations that are everywhere what have we we create a network so that we can make content in a centralized location and then broadcast that out two different stations in this network and then you can have the same radio content going out to listeners across an entire seaboard or or even across the entire. United States it sounds like a good improvement in the process yes it also would cause headaches for RCA later but but they decided we're going to make a network. We're going to actually create two networks but they're. GonNa be lumped under the same designation that designation and was <hes> the National Broadcasting Company started off as the radio network not a TV network and <hes> it's interesting because there were two parallel independent networks under NBC. They were called Red and blue so I'm like yes. It was like versions. Lou No they were largely similar but over time they would have slightly different programming really it was just a way of organizing the networks they had different kind of central radio stations as their HQ but you had two separate ones you had the blue network the red network but they were both NBC so they were both identified as NBC one of the other interesting things we can actually talk about now for right now because here's the crazy thing about NBC. You can argue that. NBC was the creation of all three of the classic major United States networks so you know we've got the four now you would argue you have NBC ABC CBS and Fox Take Fox out because for a long time it was just ABC NBC and CBS again we covered that in our CBS episode yeah so NBC he was very picky about what programming it would carry and you had this talent ellen agent named Arthur Judson and he was frustrated because the talent he represented he wanted to get them on NBC but NBC wasn't picking them up so he thought well hello fine. I'll go my own radio network and he did. He created one. It was called United Independent Broadcasters and he founded that 1927 but <hes> it didn't go over well. He wasn't able to really get good financing for it. It was losing money and so then a a wealthy dude named William S Paley comes along and he ends up buying the United Independent broadcasters re works at renames it and calls the Columbia Broadcasting System or CBS so the reason CBS existed in the beginning was because there was is this group of talent that couldn't get work in BC so if NBC had hired them CBS maybe never would have existed existed which is kind of interesting that if you want to hear about that listen to our CBS episode yes back back to RCA nineteen twenty nine. They got majority share in the victor. Talking Machine Company made victimless victimless gramophones so if you I'm sure you've seen the logo of the dog cocking its head looking at the photograph yes that's Victoria. Yeah which I know is the RCA logo yeah that's because it was the victor talking machine logo then RCA acquire them and then they used that logo for some of our particularly for RCA records for some of their their divisions so yeah that <hes> logo by the way is specifically called his his master's voice and the dog's name is nipper upper so-called because he would nip the backs of legs of people who came to visit Nice his master <hes> yeah funny little story so this would be the moment when RCA would actually get into consumer electronics this rise of radio RCA was again looking at just doing the industrial stuff. Yeah I mean they were like toying with the idea yeah and their partners were selling <hes> consumer electronics. Thanks so like Westinghouse was doing it but RCA itself had not been doing it up to this point but now they bought a company that was making consumer electronics so do they start selling but this puts them in competition with Columbia right. Yes it did and it would get pretty ugly so Columbia. Now is is in competition with them on two different fronts. There's the consumer electronics front in the sense of the gramophones and Victoria listen things like that as well as the music that was being sold for those things. That was one level of competition the other being that now are. CA A is operating or is the parent company of NBC and NBC is competing against CBS Columbia had been part of CBS <hes> so yeah this would be the beginning of a fierce competition between RCA and Columbia but we'll tell you guys about that right after this break break. Your calls is here sports business and everyday life there arrears for at all if it has to do with rules you can learn all about it on the podcast with me. Your host seem bland. Each we break down the calls that sometimes drivers crazy and the what when and why of the rules behind you'll you'll see the world of sports officiating in a way you haven't before you'll hear from some of the most influential people in sports and the perspective perspective on officiating and how the rules impacts the way to play sports aren't your thing. We'll even take a crack at breaking down some everyday every day. Life Fools to trust me. There is something here forever. Listen to good calls on apple podcast on the iheartradio APP. Wherever you listen to podcasts. We're going to get some ugly stuff Yay Kaz Sarnoff. It is a sort of take-no-prisoners kind of guy. He seems like it very very driven driven a good word for it so nine hundred twenty nine big year here for RCA for one thing RCA would buy a chain of movie theaters called the Keith Albee orpheum chain of theaters and also acquired the film booking booking offices of America then took those two things and collided them in a weird way squishing them together to create a new thing something that Ariel on I know a lot about this but that's a different show and merged them into a new company called Radio Keith Orphee orpheum pictures better known as arc. Ao Pictures <hes> anyone who's a big fan of rocky horror picture show like Jonathan Yup. They're very familiar with our KO 'cause they're. It's referenced lot in that particular movie all right so why did they. What did they get into the theater business busy. This is this. is another one so you remember how westinghouse needed to have something something to play on radios in order for people to go by radio sets yeah very similar. RCA had come up with a way to pair audio Joe with images in film okay so they needed a place to present that audio exactly they they needed to have theaters that would run run the equipment that would show these films because otherwise they were having to come into competition with established film companies that were also trying to market their own audio to film <hes> technologies so this was a race to establish the standard. I mean I've I've been to a lot of movies. It seems like RCA is the standard it is it. It eventually became that so it ended up working. RC was able to establish that it's it's methodology would become the basis for the standard of a film audio and I won't go into how it works super technical but it was just imagine that you have all these different companies. They're all trying to become the standard. They're all competing as very frustrating. Oh strating right if you're if you own an independent movie theater you might have to operate several different types of projectors in order to be able to show any any given film because it could have been shot using a different standard or a different approach by standardizing it then movie theater operators were saying. Oh good now I no no matter who I get a movie from I can show it in my theater because it will work on the same piece of equipment so it's very important and RCA of course wanted to be the company company to do that because you can make booze of Buck goes by licensing out that technology nice yeah. We're really well. We're not done with nineteen twenty nine by the way Oh yeah ask so. This was also win. A sarnoff became interested in studying something that had not yet fully come into being and that would be electronic traumatic television. <hes> there had been mechanical televisions. I won't go into that either now but it is weird and there weren't a whole lot of them not a lot of people own mechanical television <hes> but the electronic television seemed to be pretty promising so sarnoff met with a westinghouse engineer and remember. Westinghouse was one of the partners and this was a guy named Vladimir Zorkin. I'll have you heard about the inventor of TV I I. I have a little bit again. We talk about like. CBS made a TV RCA made a TV and they had some fights over Vergara the that's going to be a part of this conversation so so that's what I know about the invention of TV so if you ask the averaged edged like tech savvy health history buff person who the inventor TV as they typically say Filo Farnsworth and that's that's fair. Filo Farnsworth did a lot to create electronic TV Vladimir Zorkin was also working on the same concept <hes> at the same time and the two of them. We're both kind of rushing to develop like Edison and Tesla or Marconi and tesla for anyone else in Tesla Tesla yeah and and in this case Farnsworth would be the Tesla of that and that he was given a a a raw end of the deal because Sarnoff ends up bringing sort for over two. RCA Okay so he's working leaves. Westinghouse joins RCA RC creates a whole are indeed division. That's where it gets to a uses as personal laboratory and they also decide that in order to squelch farnsworth breath so that he can't cer- key can't stand his competition. They are going to fight file a whole bunch of lawsuits against Farnsworth intellectual property lawsuits <hes> Farnsworth fully believed and ended up being right that his claims were valid that he was not violating their intellectual property. They were infected violating his intellectual property but here's the thing about those. Ip lawsuits they drag on for a very long time yeah so Farnsworth was kind of a broken man by the end of it but it seems it seems like a an unwise battle to be having aim because this is around the time of the Great Depression Right Yep does having well but in Great Depression was hitting a lot of businesses really hard but there were certain businesses businesses that are actually doing fairly well movie. Theater businesses were doing all right and so it was radio because people want an escape so they were pouring in a lot of money into rnd for television in fact a crazy amount it was like fifty million dollars over over the course of more than a decade but still and they were still doing quite well with Radio President Roosevelt be FDR Franklin Roosevelt <hes> where he was using radio to connect with citizens who were enduring economic hardship so is creating sort of a national identity using radio so people didn't have a whole lot of money to spare bear but those who were saving up would often save up to get something like a radio set it would help them get entertainment. They would get news so it was still a a booming business okay but how were consumer electrics doing. Howard the TV's doing because that's what they're fighting over <hes> they didn't really do much of anything at all all at first because <hes> coming up with a brand new technology that's expensive at a time when people are enduring severe economic hardship turns turns out not the best time to launch a new product kate suited. Rca Do in the interim they focused on the radio stuff <hes> as much as they could but they weren't able to really move some of their other products. They came out with a new type of record player that would play records at thirty three and a third revolutions per minute second okay. They used to play at seventy eight revolution. That doesn't seem very good going into this would also require technical description in by the way are the important. The interesting to me is that RCA tried to come out with a thirty three and a third RPM record. It did not do well because they tried to launch it in the Great Depression and nobody could afford a new radio or new record player essentially so they didn't go anywhere and for a longtime the thirty three and a third. D- <hes> version of records was just off the table all right but so that was another failure on our part they weren't making any <unk> headway with TV yet <hes> they were not doing well with the phonograph they were still doing well with radio but <hes> we'll we'll wrap this episode because we're already running long and we have to get into the decline of our next one but we're getting up to nineteen thirty two still great depression era but the US federal government now was starting to get a little little worried about our ca because ca was so dominant it's industry. I mean they were made up of a bunch of really big companies. Yup and they were like incredibly powerful. The government said you know what you're essentially a monopoly and they. RCA's like <hes> yeah you made us and the government said no no no that was like a couple of administrations ago so technically weeded and make you and so we'd like you to break up now and a RCA did not break up but the partnership that formed Rca what they do is they sold their their stake in RCA to RCA itself also RCA the entity buys up its own shares so spinoff kind of like yeah spinning it off so that it becomes its own independent company and RCA would become the RCA corporation. Which is why. I think it's funny because it's the Radio Corporation of America Corporation it just in case you didn't get it. The first time I see here's David Sarnoff became the president goes from general manager to President of RCA. 'CAUSE RCA now is its own independent company and he would continue to lead RCA and that will become very important in our next episode and if you've listened do a lot of business on the brink. You probably already anticipating where this is going to go. Which is where we tell stories about. How changes in leadership can have a big impact act on a company yes but in the meantime if this is inspired you to ask us to talk about a different company you can email us. Where can they do that. Jonathan and that could be it feedback at the brink podcast dot show also you can go to the brink podcast show and look up all kinds of information about Jonathan. You mean our past episodes anything like that. Yup and we promise that in future episodes area will talk a lot more than I will. It's just the this particular particular when I went bonkers because I've got so many notes on this and it's like there's so much technical information and you are at like a technical maven and yes. I just didn't want to get too bogged down in any of the technical details of and that's that's you know it's it's tough because when you're talking about a company like RCA. It's it's business. History is deeply tied to technology was creating but yes in our next episode. We'll find out how this this company that started as monopoly. Ah got spun off and was still a very dominant player in the space and would continue to be so largely because of David Sarnoff. We're going to see how that could go to a point where I would say that. Since one thousand nine hundred six doesn't even really exist anymore. I and I look forward to that all right. See you guys next time. I'm Jonathan Strickland. I'm Ariel Castro. Ask Business on the brink is a production of iheartradio and how stuff works for more podcasts from iheartradio visit visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows my name is Danny Shapiro and I'm the host of family secrets secrets a podcast about the secrets kept from US secrets. We keep from others the secrets we keep from ourselves family secrets is a show where you can hear a powerful stories of heartbreak healing and hope listen to season to a family secrets on apple podcasts the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcasts.