Rock's Backpages Ep. 66: Remembering Charlie Gillett + Johnnie Allan Audio
Welcome back pages. Podcast Muslims Barney. Hoskyns here as with pringle with just a Murison Bowie. Hello Bonnie study on Jasper Good Morning. Today's episode is a special tribute to the late. Charlie Gillet who died ten years ago this month and whose groundbreaking history. The sound of the city was published. Almost exactly fifty years ago. It's not much of an exaggeration to say the rocks back pages probably wouldn't exist without that book which was Lee the first attempt to chronicle what Charlie called the rise of rock and roll and the fuss but we give historical white to particularly American pop music. That had never been taken very seriously point. I think that's right. I'm probably gave me my copy. Nine thousand two when I was fourteen and it was revelation. It taught me about things. I had no idea particular nature of the independent American music business. And how black music was essentially a creation of the independent labels? It's pockets. I believe started. The thesis is that correct. Yeah I could big brother thing. That's true yeah record this incident because we originally were cited recorded all this week. No good thing that we are. I think we've finished by saying you. We're going to be myth offering and they saly Hamas. That's where we're supposed to sell foist. Whistle trio recovered this episode. Sixty six at one more six and we'll be in house thirteen. So should we get back on track with give it right veer off into this satanic? Yes so you talked about the thesis so one of the things we're featuring free on homepage. Is this great audio interview with Charlie from Nineteen Ninety nine? That BILL BREWSTER DID ENJOY. Pretty much tells the story. I mean if you if you care anything about Charlie Gillet. If you read the some of the City I learned law listening to this again and so the story I mean he is an amazing story. I mean he grew up in very very humble beginnings in the northeast of England. I mean literally in a coma. Hamlet with no running water electricity or any south very impoverished background and yet went to Cambridge. Yeah I think he started. Economics helped him with his record company. So he tells the story about how he ended up going to comedy university in on a post grass game and essentially rising thesis about the evolution of American Popular Music. And not then deed in a seamless but he did morph into this extraordinary book which was published in. Nineteen seventy and. He talks about that. In fact we weren't GonNa Feature Clintono of Charlie talking about Zama City. I came back to then turn this into redtop over the next year or so literally. Fifteen publishes oldman descent is kind of improve Kepa. Jasmine mobiles through serious. Any of that was still just walking. Right meanwhile I got myself a call them in record mirror rolling stone which I when it first came out of his meal. Kind of president the employee Anthony Stevens and then there was a rumor to British. Moonstone was going to be lodged with Mick Jagger late Sunday and I managed an interview meeting with him as he was deciding who was going to be the editor it may Mick Jagger in England was going to be the one who decided to the editor was. He was helping to finance the rolling stones so I went to meeting Saturday after about an hour. Waiting he came in gave me. The most cursory of glances spoke to whoever is in the office and more out again and that was to be kind of gave me a whole impetus again. Show these sums up Charlie. You know impressed. By Mick Jagger joins absolutely is unknown had such integrity. He was never bedazzled by fame any union quite well. Didn't you Bonnie I knew a bit? I've met some curfew times. And he's always absolutely charming yet but if you said something he disagreed with he would let you know much like not suffering fools gladly but he has finally load colouration for fools and we put it that way never did it. Insults Shaming Ni- but in fact we're also featuring all the tribe's the we pulled in ten years ago and Charlie died from a widespread and some of them really me. Charcoal is this. The one that taught his source at this point Cheryl Garret the editor of the Faisal Sissy Limited. If she ever anything made any kind of mistake she's got an email from shauna. I go but it was never. It was never meant to make feel small. It's just. He felt compelled to correct errors. Hillside the twenty mile radius on the BBC Radio London for longtime here to show honky-tonk shop our friend and colleague Pages Mawson collies worked for Charlie all Nazis onto the phones. And things like that absolutely not as violence show that. I got my copy of Bobby. Charles's Baz web awful and we're going to get onto joining atom. Laser promised land. Was this this tune he lay over and over again and it was a terrific show. I think he lost me. Lastly is when he did his big left tons. Wore ONE DB SLEEP WORLD MUSIC. But he's sending came ticket obsessed with African music and songs hopeful slightly. Lost Mirror point. Not Because I dislike music. But it wasn't my no. You didn't speak to me and in particular way but yes is Great. Show that he did become a real champion of quote unquote and one of the three pieces. So in addition to pieces about short by Charlie. He's been pages from the dog. Yes we've been grateful for that such an important faker. There's this piece. He wrote relatively late in his Royston career about the genesis of the term world music. And it's worth just brief equipment. They said in one thousand nine hundred. Seventy owners of several British independent record labels convened a series of meetings in is Lincoln pub to discuss ways to get their records into shops. Another late says we settled on easily. Will overriding the reservations of those who felt demeaned artists to lump African leaders? Together with Pakistani devotional singer. So he it's not ideal but he was. He become such a champion of particularly African music. I would say. But not exclusively. They should stop listening to little Anglo American pop music and Roots Music and I have to resist as well because I got this email from Charlie after. We assembled a list of the best albums of the notice. This must have been in the last year of his one embarrassing disgracefully voice and imbredded list is reminds me of the top one hundred dollars. Back in nineteen seventy two when only two black albums made the list actually true. I think he's talking about seventy five. Have we really not moved on even by an inch to embrace? The rest of the world concur disagree with him. I point he point. I remember with made that list in the first place. No no I'd say it's a long time ago. Roll type back with slight in terms of you know before Charlie got into music. What an honor. The sound of the city was I mean I I just. It was sort of Bible of the American music business. How these particular stalls in Jones of meantime had evolved from the forties to the the end of the sixties also incredible detail about record labels an almond juices and arranges in session. I mean this was like new. I mean even Grill Mockus when he wrote his tribute sense his tribute long about Easter. I mean made me feel so ignorant right right. I mean fourteen when I read it on. This was completely new to me. You know I never a day about any of this stuff. It was possibly one of the my gateway drugs into black music. Yeah I mean I always liked Latin music but suddenly this little world and stuff that I previously dismissed a bit snobbish British blues away hole in sections that cheese you know something. All of that evaporates. Yes so yeah it was very important. Book Me Yeah and I think so. Many people readily it along with his honky-tonk shirt. I mean he was so influential but in such self effacing way someone used the words offer facing he was the opposite of an EGOMANIAC he set up Oval Records Original Publishing Company. In some say full he had some responsibility for the emergence of Dr Straight Sir. He didn't profit from becoming one of the biggest selling on. It takes on the one of the skeletons in the library. We just going to pull sexton rising about Paul hardcastle or the big hit with nineteen and Lumina nine hundred. The first couple of paragraphs step backward needs to move number ninety two on a yellow page. Insult scrapbook less yours. Truly RECCO business. Good Guy Charlie. Gillet had records did a pool. I wanted she'd been stood talked to pull and dirt from first light whose am is doing great work. Johnson highways and a seven to one year before that and turn a hockey is often one of those men mentions that missive was making Claus. Talks to music. Those who knew herpin rises with their schedules then along came nine thousand. Nine hundred seventy was fitting them into is. Yeah so Charlie Gillet one of the good guys. Yochelson that yeah. He knows responsible for extraordinary of Electron Proton Zone. Should we go back? To the beginning the oval story because I think the set order clip features Johnny talking about Oval on how that Labor was formed. A friend of mine said if you weren't during these six seemed to me. I was doing quite enough. What else would you do? That's the only other thing that would be to run a record label. So why would we do that? So please seventy two. We went down to Louisiana in search of material which which which eventually came is another side of ood Cajun and Louisiana. Which eventually four so we went we went to Louisiana. To found a company is licensed to step on good terms. Came back to England and couldn't find anybody who might be interested in releasing but in the meantime some couple of listeners to my show and said you must go and see this band will kill. Iras went to see them. So that really really funny and good this every. Ev- all the kind of BAT BARRIER BREAKING. I was interested in these guys. Did you know they they would sink? Twenty tiny fingers. He'll down the company to go into something like the. I really hardcore modern jazz. Just blinking an eye and it was the endure as I see them. Came back on the radio set are good went again and a third or fourth time standing there in those days abound Medusa stage. Then go back on again and do the second an Indian tipple. This book came up to me support. You keep saying how good we are on the radio fucking managers. That was easier so I mean that's another feather in choice. Not they will ever been cut out for management but but he was the day fatso manager injury span for about a year. Pretty hard work because they were on a bunch of blokes until the roads clean mildly. These and other Saturday night was sort of the birth of swamp pop as a phenomenon in Britain. Is that fair to say that he kind of brought swamp pop to Britain in a way? So what did you learn from listening to the audience? But also this teaching he wrote for an Ma in late night before he describes how he went with his partner in Oval Gordon to Louisiana. Basically they would try to find something to release this Oval Label that they started and what was fascinating was find out that they went to New Orleans. Initially couldn't really find anything but he says one night in a bar on Canal Street. I nanny toward the green goals in the pool table when a version of promised land came on jukebox featuring an accordion break where Chuck Berry author of the Song had always played guitar and it just. It blew his mind and long story short. They got in touch with floyd swallow of Jin records based out in Mount well couple of hundred miles from New Orleans and they went out was a mate. Floyd within Lafayette Villa PLA Villa Plots V. Plat if you're speaking French. But essentially they did a deal with floyd and they put out this amazing compilation which are still having my original coffee. Another Saturday night which is all stuff. I've been recorded that by floyds for including promised lying to say that was birth of swamp. Pop I mean I think swamp pop probably exist is a term before but this album. I'm just thank you for British audiences you just but that's absolutely right. I think I think it wars and I mean I think God I think I doesn't promise Johnny Allen's version of promise is one of my favorite records ever sleep fantastic listener. Yesterday is just fabulous. Isn't it and waiting is it was. It'd been recruited nineteen seventy one. So it didn't come out all not compilation to seventy four. And then and then you have this new traction in nineteen seventy eight in stiff hours. A single almost became ahead. They brought Joe Nieto's which we audio interviews dumb talk about that in a minute. We're talking I mean I think per Masan is I mean it was. It was a huge record for for so many people is still one of the greatest but it was on the beast of a cover of a Mohawk and yeah and it was only just you know just hearing it in this Song Canal Street. Fill that turned into this. Absolute classic an resulted in Johnny. Who is still essentially like a teacher visit Anita water some reader? Who's my guess? Is that right balance. They're not quite like. Hey hit it. When when Charlie I East Oval in seventy four single wasn't a hit? Then he released about a year later then seven shape they really stiff released it in conjunction with still wasn't ahead. Yeah just incredibly frustrating. It didn't sonically fit what radio pop radio play. I think that that's a simple problem things about it. I mean mentioned the Accordion Solo just got Sola by FELTON ratio. Who is also one of the office on Saturday? Night is one of the great things about I mean. It's great to see your response to it. Just heard it before. Didn't necessarily take in anything other than the cover song but actually listening to it properly is really got something. I think it's and it's interesting because there's another recording that he did that doesn't have anything like this same. That's right anything like the same magic and there's just something about that swings thinks it's interesting song. I'm Chuck Berry songs being covered by symbiosis. Don't true but this has produced. Two great covers. Johnny island one and Elvis Presley's which is just let James Burton gets also which makes the HASTA. I'm not in the backfield neck. Yes it's just great great lake home. Somebody go on the phone or I think it is something that is Elvis's version somewhat put pay. Maybe to Johnny's Avenue Challah success. But it's great that Elvis diddy and it is just it's one of Chuck Berry's greatest song almost tempted to just read couple of lines from from the lyric pure America. I love that line about I was on that midnight. Far Out of Birmingham Smoking into New Orleans. Absolutely KIGGINS THE ORLEANS. It's just our Anita. Brief Digression of Chuck Berry is ever more frustration. Ya Sisterhood Sellers with regard present. When he was one of the great American summarize yes and yet he regarded the whole thing the whole business with contempt. Yeah and it's just a huge disappointment. He turned out to be. Sasha unpleasant manner semi respects completely just briefly before we actually hear the speaking voice of Johnny Alam. I wanted to just to note this pace from nine hundred seventy charlie mentioned in the first. We heard that little raccoon mirror. Charlie was one of one hundred thirty four British Music Jones who were flown to New York to see Brindley Schwartz fill more on a bill that also included Van Morrison and quicksilver mass the breeze. Just talk about how it was one of the Great Khan seventies hype and they only just got there in time because the plane had problems. And they'd had two touchdown in flying they land deeds. Jfk by an EMEGENCY had to go in a bustle several taxes. So the film Maurice or they would have missed the entire point of there being that. He's pieces very funny. Saw something like great lights by voice terrible same old guitar. My notes scribbled in the doll to record the first impression. So he's just right and that's the first thing he writes down and then he writes Nicholas. Low Sings plays guitar was a superman shirt and has a trick of nodding. His head make his cover his face. I mean this is a tourist. Justin was interesting ways historical. Venice notorious vamps since this does hole might was it. Fame pushes was the management company slightly dubious Blogs Brizzi. Schwartz almost destroyed by this. They they would just take two pieces in the press. Yes I'm so. They then retreated pretty good at getting their heads together in the country. Whatever it is bonds reemerged as a public bond couple of years later a basically rebuilt reputation from the ground up. That's right eventually chunk than Kim. Grandpa backing band rumor and the neat low of course went on of quite notable success. So is admirable the way the British will can survive. Go completely and it's worth noting that choice radio show was at least indirectly responsible for you mentioned GRANDPA. Yeah so so he played. Charlie played his first demos. Ronnie played the first timers by Elvis. Still Wow wow. He had a hand in in so much success. He was upon those great shows on Clinton comb. That's right where I played football. So this is my lost memories really Charlie or sometime in the new tease. He ended up. He was nearly sixty years old and still playing football with people. Not Just Hall Fisher running around with this remotely group of Africans Ernst Bloch in America Bright. He just was his position. Defense never crossed the hall on. He was like the WHO is the. Ac Mullah Berets was a Franco berets. Coleman Sweetie you still incredibly fair I just sixty five is just awesome this Bernie Schwartz. He's he says met Robert. Chris Gov the village voice who told us he's the best royster in the state. Been Selassie. A modest are be critic for crawdads and other papers who tig sly and Jerry Butler and writes well about them good. Isn't that Noise Chris? Forever telling everyone is looking at some point dean of American brought critique she to us a little bit about the Jani Owl Nordia I mean this is coinciding with the seventieth stiff release and he. He's he's over here promoting it cliff white does the interview and he talks very much about the place where he comes from. Lafayette. He's a regional hitmaker. He said his first single leading days moon actually had some traction nation but that was the end of that he said he -cation he played as far away as Florida or Texas but essentially he was looking guy playing local clubs and it doesn't seem to mind that very much not thirty about the fact that he's happy to at least be having regional success absolutely. He's he's also very interesting about the whilst his music had Cajun elements wasn't pure Cajun. Music definitely nonsense. He'd booked Bosnia and again because they wasn't wolf entity Cajun enough. The we're talking about a white Francophone community essentially who very very often quite inward-looking and can isolated Muslim listened to that Clinton now where he talks about precisely that about what constitutes real Cajun music in his place the Pao due to their Two hundred twelve nightclubs in the Lafayette area in Acadia. That specialize in that I mean just to such an example. We played in this nightclub. Call the Cajun Cajun Club your between Apple Jalen Kaplan. This is on a Friday night. So the guy booked for like Five six months from that date on a Saturday night. Well the guy calls me back up two weeks later says hey man. There's little win the world you're coming on your side at night. This is why these are the people who run me out of here. He says they want Authentic Cajun music on that night and says they don't want to even hear of anything else. I mean there. There is a place About a mile from my house call Webs Neighborhood Lounge nightclub and he's not really loud as nightclub. It's strictly Cajun music. As where you'll see these people in their fifties sixties seventies and eighties. You know some of them walk in there with a walking cane. Hangup walking cane of all the music that the mini that cracks up there does. I mean it's interesting cliff white. Who's breaking on basic soul specialist? He's like how's depth. In terms of anybody he lumps ZYDECO. Which is the blacks Bush? Yeah music with Cajun. Music is the same thing which they kind of all renowned so they have similarities lows use of the coding and things like that wash boards and so on and so forth zydeco is can't blues. Yeah Yea Shin their executive for very obvious reasons that sort of leads to comes ation slutty bruce into view of race relations in Louisiana. That's the way I read it. He kind of Johnny claims that things are better than they used to be. In fact history has proven that. That's really not necessarily the case. I mean they can be better and still be all will will quite he talks about. He's asked to conference people understand. Cajun people speaking French silicon but it is very different is quite different. It's quite a different language just quickly explaining what cage music is and who the. Cajun people comes from Arcadian which were originally French. Who came from was basically driven out of Canada and went down because they refused to Kowtow to the present shots rider kicks out of Nova Scotia and they went the region around New Orleans where they were kind of welcomed. New Orleans itself was a French place originally before it was bought by the American Government Napoleon to sell it indeed because he had tried to the Haitian revolution costume so much money because he was such a fool about trying to reimpose slavery on the Haitian even run out of money and had to sell two. Yeah let's go frankly just for that very very useful history lesson. So they settled. They settled not much in New Orleans the cellphones they did settle in the violins small towns around they retain the language as you say incoming missiles slightly pigeon version of French of time. They did absorb losses. The local black culture many respects they brought with them accordions things for sure century French instruments ordinances and in the strictly Cajun Music Costa Fiddle yet. Well yes. I'm washed poets. Eight's a kind of music festival. Balto music very UPTEMPO. Lots of coordination lots of path rhythm and that is something John took from it. You know he wasn't appear Cajun and he talks about how high school he wants to do. Very much pure Cajun Don's garage. They can then he sort of suddenly hood rock and roll and was like Oh they soar. Elvis own appropriately the Louisiana hayride. That's GonNa turn a young man and he played up stealing occasion. He talks The sun states versus the you get Paulson's listened to actually wrong lovely speaking voice join us That he is a Louisiana native and Nationa sense on the he. He's pleased England permitting srecko but Astra's experience. Yeah you know. This guy who normally wouldn't play doesn't twenty miles from from these in London. Promoting this record so yeah and he talks about promised land itself and being risks. Unisom silent about that I took the stage at rulebook platelet at the end of the the end of the podcast. But he's very museum in front of his conquest tough audiences these these balls out in the suburbs right. Yes No boondocks about singing land of thousand doN'TS and inviting people to sing along but then there's some guys maybe Kim Is is a lot of cajun singers. Who would try to make it a little bit outside of that space change? Their names on basically dropped French parts of their names. Johnny Allen had a French surname and other people also kind of rethinking their names in order to try to. You know elise that could pronounce the names. What's interesting is that that black women says either courses had been discovered this positive rediscovering blues people buy low maximum delights such who runs the South Biologists. So we in this country were much more aware of the black artist conception is broken dukes of this world then we were in the White Cajun stuff. Not What Charlie? Philip found interesting was as much as the white stuff just never left Louisiana so significant way. Yeah completely I mean because we were wearing New Orleans music Dr Jon Allen Toussaint the Nieces. We talked about the other week all of that sort of stuff but this Merle. Yeah and it's worth ninety. There's quite a big difference. Actually I mean not just musically but culturally and in terms of the cuisine Cajun. Creole are two games in in many respects of course because they're geographically closer together. They have sh element yet. They come from different. I mean startling noting that even the slave south before the civil war New Orleans is remarked integrate Sissy and actually became less than scrape off the civil war yet but the failure reconstruction had particular ramifications on on Louisiana New Orleans and Virginia's very nice interview mostly about what we were described. The great welcome role teens absolutely just ought to finish before we move just justice this little among the attributes that came in when Charlie died ten years ago wars from Dave Lewis Editor of the. Let's up in funding tight but loose and it just again. It's just it's Kasich Charlie mess. This days that he wants inadvertently took home the might of pizza grand. He read a piece in the anime about singles and led Zeppelin's resistance to them while at the same time. Singling out the fact that is aptly more force to be reckoned with. Grant Misread this criticism of his boys and took umbrage and wrote a complaining lesser the following weeks enemy with typical Kanda. Charlie replied POPs. Let's up and would like to tell me what they've liked to have written about the shoulder smoking ten years since we lost Charlie and fifty years since the brilliant sound of the city was published. That's right now. It's it's it's it's great it really is. It's the boy of early rock and roll scholarship. Tell us what's new in the Lawrence live? We'll start off with pita loom for Herman of Home Hermit or piece of no one. This is N. P. But Chris Volz Melody Maker and sixty five and he comes over as an impossible to all the R&B funds. I'll say I think homes it's definitely only true R. and B. Group left us if they want to talk a protest anti cigarettes and God in Henry the eighth month minds and I do it all without age of pills or drugs just coffee and cocoa tons out. Thank you look. He basically busy end up living in America and it turns out. He became friends with Alex. Chilton I know is absolutely nothing would surprise. I I quote on facebook quote of the day and two three responded saying that actually he became friends not to smoke shooting some other really interesting people. I no longer know the double barrel piece of some. But if it's only Alaron stuck right eden and Kerley beat. She's just running through the singles. Just come also recently been released and it's interesting. This is from December sixty six and she just picks on top of things is gene Clark gone from Group to group Jean Claude Soliciting himself his first alert is a Beautiful Ballad entitled echoes. A beautiful thought provoking lyric and lustrous arrangement. Add Up to a possible. I hit total for GM. Now Your Big Gene Club fancy. I mean it's it's very nice to be the time someone saying. This is a really really good record. Yeah it was a great record. I mean actually it sort of untypical of Jean Claude. It's so lush. Might ALMOST BAROQUE RIGHT. California porn and with these arrangements. Think by Leon Russell Right. You're right right so this. I think there's even an oboe and strings very very much of its Tolan was it. He didn't he. Wasn't this striking out us. You know we talk about for the podcast about how he was a really important part of the early birds the defined as as brighter. And but Donnie owner. Just a pause she also right even rights recently about ten minutes recorded meekly and now one on. Its way up the charts. The butlers Broomfield second. Release for what it's worth so we'll have to listen to this one for a while before you really feel it. But it's definitely worthy of the top twenty lists as she says written about ten minutes. This is written in response to the sunset strip riots which adapted live only about a month before this. This comes out so it's a very very quick release about a specific event. It's just it's an historic dancing style. Stephen Stills responding to the threatened closure of this tiny little club Hon. doors bright's wasn't like they were protesting about you know. Put anything on important persecution minority. That'll club was going to be closed. And they will march down the street and heavy handed any combs instant agitprop on the back of folk protests and stills did literally he writes very quickly and nothing could was recorded very armistice can sit guns and I mean. Do you think it's a great record reservations. I kinda like it is sonnet is quite nice. It's not guitar line. Something's happening here. It's goals Stevenson. Bulls could be David crosby bullshit but this was the size of the heads expanding but it isn't chaotic. La beat is very interesting and they really covered those riots. They're about to three nights of it and there are less pages full of it. They will then interview kids about recipes. Interesting time I think Neil Young was actually bundled into the back of a of a police car van and taken down your local nick but I always think that Neil Young's equivalence just what it's worth. I'm also Britain and ten s right. I think he's you know infinitely more powerful about a slightly more important event absolutely. I'm yeah probably has something to do with something happened in what it is an exactly. There's a man with a gun older moving onto the knife. Seventy three bronze thirty old friends who've looks back paid for three hundred peanuts viewed by the mall. Ray Fox Cummings is one of our rights. I'm really COMINGTON joy of joys nine or stolen we do. He was very early kind of no pros of the mother. Who Pulled Bowie? Sort of you know. And Lou Reed and people like that. But this is broaden ferrier he says Britain was once quoted as saying that will each time he started with the cover mut inwards was going to be the third. The idea comes first and the government has to express idea. Used to find right chick for it off Brian Dick Word Chick. Webb is instinct. Because I'm not sure it has actually left the bound. Witnesses few takes place it seventy three so he might have just because obviously he's not on Strand. It might be not transitional mode. Yeah Yeah Move. Young enemy nine hundred seventy seven one of my favorite writers. Brian case involving Stan Getz. He says is that much fries. Tom Require a nice guy. Told Stan Getz has a really bad. Very bad reputation. Scott's doing doing is back in bending over backwards Stan Getz buffs. Signed GETS IS NOT PRETTY INTERESTING GUY. He says all music all up foams must've logic foreign content. You can't let's all hang out. You've got to be selective. That's his anti free jazz tape right. You know very action. He wanted you know he he he he was I. I love his tone. I think he's getting time. Other user gets slightly unfairly sometimes. You just seen as the Bosnian Y- quite true. There's a really nice. Bosa was actually a very quite small part of his book. And there's a really nice record with Gerry Mulligan which I think he's actually. They're both on have lovely tone. It should nice straight ahead kind of. Do you know what year that's from? I know so six sixties or early is awesome. Maybe fifty. Because he had his he and Ben. Webster seamless unique sounds of Old Town Plaza and now a million miles from each other. He says the older you get you realize it's not the mouthpiece it's you that you thought tapping your head. You want something. That's not there. He used to go to the mouthpiece manufacturers then literally come struck them how to carve his. Chrissy takes the sound of the Saxophone. Human sound breath. You hear literacy. Now he's an bronchitis expected to begin a really hard time actually had already. Roslyn jaw bowl chat with him and Brian case who has had previously been very critical of the bus stop. She that was ridiculous. I think came with interview with much. More respect for standards and uses did get played on a law in London. Air Plot Romney's distant place his his flat in London owner Christie. Taking sound of the saxophone. Like oh Ken Kayla. Who's actually Max come co-produce on time on the introduction of digital recording interviewed by Tim Sullivan for the Boston Globe? And they see one and this is the whenever in full digital recording was absolute the future that it was inherently the best way to record and he says basically what you'll get from the time you put might in front of an instrument until the person whom listens to it should be identical now in this piece. Jim Sullivan is actually kind of interesting. Critical of what he's heard in terms of populaces killian type of classical music case with digital recording. But he and other people he talks to a war field when you mulched threaten. He don't classical music business. Music record. Straight straight many stopped tracking digital things. Don't sound quite right and this is nice as you want. These which is presumably is before compact discs so the vinyl pressings of digital recordings right-to-die box. You'd drop which I think from the before you before. That was thirty seventeen. John was very first pop. Brio best a big deal civility on the line and I couldn't sticker car. They're all along you yesterday. Recorded sticky pressing for certain time right could not completely dismisses things. It's the horrible. Sounding record is very anti readies whilst now. There is a huge revival in this country in particular country in America very much to all analog recording techniques even going back to the reason taping songs I think actually just recording has been cracked. I think over just taking a long time and we're talking about thirty thirty almost about forty years thirty five years but I don't listen remediate record digitally winsome way that I did back in the eighties and the nineties. Two things I'm festival. Cds's got much better remastering digital from analogue sauces. Come so much better news but also just the software that we were calling them digital recording now compete. None of these were like thirty two track digital tape machines bit different Different and also the way people manage it in computerized cents emulate. I'm looking equipments. And so on so forth I think digital sounds sounds pretty good now in but it took a long time together. You can definitely make it sound good and I think also computing power is just so much greater days that you have a lot more headroom that you can create on a on a digital recording month. Probably you could just technologically speaking previous. That's right I mean. The digital domain is just evolved so much that inevitably things are gonNA get better from the quality of digital reverb to this sorry about that digression some aspects of Production Geek. Speak speak musician. Nasc- three one cow cooper interviewing. Our very own edgy. Ground as he groped some really interesting guy. I mean he was a pioneer black musician. In Britain in the end of the sixties Vince ban equals. Then he sobs labeled little kinds of things. It's been a fight for him struggle. He did very well this point. He's now living in Barbados. He's got his own studio there and he says they don't WanNA ask. If there was ever Blattman in English music industry who tried an even came miss the obstacles they can say yes to me just to be able to live and create can be the biggest slap in the face for a man. Who's against you? He's a. He's a tough guys. Yeah you know a lot of time for love his music by the time to him as usual. He's very interesting absolutely to now. Talking about black guys broach foot. And so this is going to call it off my full name and Richard Silvester. Those initials to dodgy so great belt number nine. It's very nice. I never loved fro. Should calmly toil us. But he was of this group of black British artists who really light hard rock. We never once hostile. Maybe possibly write some songs with polling Henry. Be An bank chimes. She wants to that point. Be a hard rock since Baraka missing. It's never talked about for that. Was Their Richards. Pasta and just never would never cut Osman. Jasper I both really love. Kozlov Toy. Just buying a sound funny. There's that's great scene. Which is how. I think you introduced it to me. It from the film Alpha Pup Alpha Papa with one of Steve Steve Greatest moments. He's the whale costly also. Remain with Jack. You're ready creepy driving cuddly toy and he sort of an and he's it some brilliant that it's almost glorious. It's a magnificent task. But he does it so beautifully that it is like a homage to this truck plant at the marquee when cuddly toy was a hit and they didn't have much going on beyond that tra- bright but he's still by rushing back this way with a new. I'm coming out soon. And there's the lead track offer is a duet with beverly annoyed. So Andrew Richard Silvester Roach his full name. Yeah is he still? He's still going strong and probably still think right. Versions company toy could be as late. It's fabulous Steven Wells Interviewing Nikki. Six Mick Mars of Motley crue but not included. Just come up with these bullshits met. Marcus I mean look at me. If you were a chick what you think of fucking sexy would you WANNA fuck make? I wouldn't know Nikki. Success Interested in. Hey baby let's do it all night long more like get it over with an order. A Ham Sandwich is opposed by guns and roses lead singer whose name. Taty escape route coming out with ax coming out with the homophobic stuff that you did and and six says it sounds fucking week on. I GONNA stop putting down buck people homosexuals just to be shocking week principles and got quite last piece. Ninety five is some reynolds interviews journals will for the Wadi Bani. Utah me on his gray folded which is about a hundred versions of the grateful. Dead Dark Star stretched and more than imposed on this this this this this extraordinary calling. Donald Baird with commissioner grateful dead yes could dock stars. My favorite one of my favorite bands is low. The dead live and succeed sixty nine hundred sensation. Good at times in a link. Be Awful but it could be brilliant but this is a really really interesting use of modern technology bait essentially song cling to produce this now before as a very interesting interview before great folded hidden a singled plunder phonics where he take him a lot of different pop songs and so just pulled them apart and donal constantly using these techniques had been hit become a lawsuit from the first copyright holders had released it as a nonprofit CD seven hundred of being sold. He had to get rid of the destroyed rest and destroy. The masters really is constant school. Apparently you can get it. 'cause those seven hundred got out and people then so nice help it. I like. I'd love to hear it. I mean he's already interesting guy channels. Well you know. I seem to remember commissioning. Jones Savage Raviv Gripe felt right Emoji when I was when I was the rave reviews at its. I didn't know much about. Donald will the tool savage expressed an interest and I do remember applying funding absolutely fossil. Interesting idea I for raccoon say literally dozens if not hundreds of versions of does he went removed from all different areas and just pulled out from right. He plundered plunder funnest Hungary's from. What sixty eight right up to ninety one ninety two different live live recordings as one bit where he piled so many on top of them and then squeezes them? Hoping is like a single bang but made up your own comrades. Man You really interesting. He's also the plunder phonics thing. There are still people doing that sort of thing. Not Just mashing up to pop records but really kind of taking elements from you know ten fifteen records and con of creating this whole new thing that they're out there doing that and I think you know it's a lot easier to do that with a technologist also the Internet. You know it's impossible to shut down. These can just go and do it. And and actually people started to realize that it's pretty beneficial to record to be come popular in other ways rather than trauma short claim copyright and say. Oh this is you know. This isn't allowed. Or whatever says in this piece that he didn't get much feedback back from the dead Vasquez Garcia. Just died in there. Too busy during the Garcia's death Thomas because it's five yet He died in. I Five Five Stanton. Tom Com Sampson. The Chemo plans on divisional. Dogs are released golden touch saying how much she liked it but I like the fact that gave him permission to the deafness that credit very much. It's it's an interesting piece. I really recommend if you can find grateful. I think that's on spotify thinking. Listen it's very very interesting thing. That's my lot. Just go for just a couple of things I which is. Missy Elliott live in Birmingham. Stephen Dalton goes to see in October two thousand six and it sort of mixed review. I think basically the show had really great elements because Michelle is really great. Yeah but also there's a lot of terrar- around it and there wasn't extended Tina Turner Karaoke bits and just sort of didn't really WANNA come together for every sense jolting show-stopping anthem such as get your freak on there were two or three cheesy downstream genes and banal generic audience boosting chance Admittedly the floor show Dynamic Nana Jessica but no substitute for Elliott's avant-garde beats and beaming charisma writer and Stephen Ultimate points out. That it is remarkable that someone like missy Elliott who is so has such a broad canvas of different musical ideas that she uses for her to be the biggest female rapper. Carnival time is is actually really interesting. Because she's done such a progressive different thing. I mean hut career sort of his little peak around ninety nine. Two thousand with it sort of went off the boil and then she but she has come back with interesting releases. Yeah I say her albums always very patchy but I. I'd say the same about a little current rb artists. I mean I think that. Let's say Liz exception. Last album is actually pretty much fabulous through and in fact has missed. Alien Tony I mean. Obviously the Oslo has also been Houston cars to someone to come. I like her. No misleading. I mean I've always loved carrying A. There's something terribly mentz likable lovely about her. I wish I liked her fame carefree free comments fantastic first three albums. I mean I thought they were incredibly fun. Can't and small and funny and she was just different. Yeah very eccentric. She says every taking a bit of a back seat really. Yeah over the last few years. I think we're still waiting for a new Al Muzi year ago about about a year ago. Which was really great and says fund great video with Youtube and so and so forth it is hard for all our basis or hit. Papa sustained careers just the nature of the beast. Us Is this enormous term autism. Lucky got three years going to real productive. What have you done for me lay it? What did you do for me lost weight? Well examiner She's also I think she goes into business mentoring. Other people producing she. Even though she uses outside producers on this first realms a number of outside producer Timbaland particularly. She is able to assert her possibility. Musical personality is what was definitely evidence does not yeah so we love. Mris people sing perfect clean bound. Bit of a lateral move but clean bit live at Shepherds Bush Empire here in London. Of course around the corner from Hair Collins to see and there's sort of electro dance bought with classical flourishes. That's what a string group. Their focus from Cambridge University. And Don's records you don't have to attack Donald Records but with strings is the beginning on the end of what they do. I mean Kelvin seems to enjoy it gets three out of five stars and sort of like mixed reviews. Bit a bit strange. The fuse nearing Cango. Stray Rehana a tale of getting Gygi Wallis records and UK. Shanty vote the hooked on classics. Classical disco era. And Mozart's house has a hoedown. Ish Madness not dissimilar to Switzerland's eurovision entry a little bit random moreover this sold out gig proves that a band can't use their fans up in the balcony of the teenagers joined by rather be paid a fierce double dip Honcker with the Covenant House Anthem. Show me love are shunted by a crew of rugged types who continuing party started at Prince Harry's pad. Yeah well the way you described. The music doesn't tell US BRAS try. Roku polk was a massive massive. Hit on a record that as a pop record. I actually quite like the rest of it is pretty sort of middle of the big act. Jack I mean you know at the same time is disclosure and rudimentary looking a big thing and that sort of new? Uk House seen we liked disclosure. We liked disclosure although they and then other albums have been again. I'd I've not been super interested by their stuff so it sort of slightly in the naming seen I find anyway well. They did a good record with Mary. J. Blige they did record with her. That was one of her better records. I think interesting stage. Why both for two hours lost of the things I picked out was actually you added Bonnie. Which is Jack White speaking of People? Who Like analog recording meeks but I just picked it out because it's buying Gill independent and I think he wasn't great writer and the first line is who does Jack White think he is. Well judging by the cover to boardinghouse reach a smoothly airbrush Tim Electric of Keanu reeves which rather flutters both men in complementary ways of writing funny sort of comparison to draw to chaps. That's it for me. Well thank you so much. Thank you both. This has been the Rox back pages podcast and mark. You're going to talk out with the second clip from Johnny Allen. This is what we were told earlier. So keep this quakes are basically his stay Jackson. How works audience and how he looks knows who to avoid working with Bernie see next week pending on. Yes I mean we all still here. We haven't been commanded to work from home. But we may all be self-isolation may be this time next week so stay tuned if this is the lost episodes for a little while. We hope you've enjoyed it. We will hype vaccine and we will see then bye-bye days. I get the audience involved. I find that This this has been a key thing you know as far as the reception that we get in playing these nightclubs. The people expect. I believe the expected of now right to get them involved in like we'll do a song and I'll walk off the bandstand off the stage and and just get somebody Sing Song of the bike on this shocked. The heck over here we'll do like You recall this phone. Thousand dance should not much. Okay here. Here's saying no you know all the people that kind of that kind of thing and they really big that right now. It's so places someplace. I wouldn't dare call the station do that. You know because I I walk off and hand. It has to be selective and I've learned after doing it for so many years. You have to learn your audience and I. I have to kind of study the audience before going through this routine. You've got to watch you know I've got to watch who I can do this. Too and Kate. Yeah Yeah right guys sitting there looking at me like that. I don't dare to do so. You've learned that hard experience. That was Johnny Allen in conversation with cliff white in nineteen seventy eight concluding. This week's rock back pages podcast. The hosts will Barney hoskyns pringle and there was co hosted and produced by Jasper Murison boy the rocks back pages. Podcast is part of the Pantheon. Podcast network you can find thousands of articles as well as hundreds of full thirty interviews ROX BACK PAGES DOT COM out. Sorry hey everybody. This is Brian Regan host of the podcast side gems. Which is now a proud member of the Pantheon family of podcasts. I've been a freelance entertainment journalist for twenty five years now and I often ended up in conversations that go off on tangents suddenly discussing someone's outside passion or hobby something you didn't know about and leads to revelations about their character and about their life outside of their art often had to cut those details out because the story had district word count for a specific focus to hear the entire focus of the podcast is just on their side. Pam Or side jammed for example. Alison Chance Frontman William. Divall spent some time talking to me about reading history which led him into talking about his public school education and how it was so terrible in highschool that actually managed to get into a private school for free to his life could take a different course in this series of podcast. You're going to be hearing my interviews with musicians of all different backgrounds genres talking about everything from surfing to collecting antiques to stargazing. I hope you enjoy side jams. Please tune in regularly and I'll have a lot of interesting guests in store for you.