Ep.362 CYBERTRUCK Roadtrip ft. Chris Davies
Sira Thanksgiving and welcome to the cyber family table here. have some cyber mashed potatoes cyber gravy. A heaping helping of your favorite cyber drunk Turkey and this is a really bad gag. Sorry and welcome to the entry. Please podcast it. It's Wednesday November. Twenty seven. Welcome welcome. I'm David Riddick joining me is the little liverpudlian. Yes that is the demo. I didn't know that was a word that could he's longtime executive editor running slash Ashgar It's Chris Davies I. I was laughing at the cyber truck. Joe I was. I didn't know actually that you appeared on podcasts. Excite wasn't aware you like showed up on Webcams I have to construct. An elaborate face made out of old meets so Thanksgiving Week is perfect this because obviously I've been trying to affect my Turkey recipes so I use some of the leftover white meat from my from my face so convincing facsimile much much though people haven't seen me in real life so anyway sorry. Sorry David no you will be apologizing the whole show. I'm sure justice this get get them out. Thank you for joining US Chris Honestly I wasn't. I didn't think you would say yes but You know we'll see what what where this train wreck leads us Well this only this nation. Yes sorry this this week. Let's start with The Galaxy S. Eleven Because there's there's been this is our first. I think big substantial you know dripping hunk of news that we've had about this phone and and we've got just a whole pile of renders out there and I mean my my first reaction was well it. It looks like a Samsung phone. I couldn't tell you much more I yeah. I mean progressively throughout the the rectangle on the phones is just going to grow until it covers the whole back of a phone one and then we'll have so many cameras and most base for battery so I'm all for it. I've just decided I'm I'm done with that. Yeah the camera module really especially in the US eleven plus. I don't understand Dan why they've gone all Picasso on that one in particular the other ones it seems like lined up normally when you're taking photos of children and animals. They'll ropy distracted by the unusual arrangement of lenses and stare at the camera. That's literally only reason I can think of. I can't think of another good one either So it looks like the The S S Levin plus both have like five imaging centers on the back. So we have to figure out what all of those are her. I guess I I'm not really sure I I'm guessing that will be a very large resolution camera to take very long. Resolution focuses uses of your loved ones and then some optical zoom so that you can take a look of a distance and then a wide angle on in case you have a large family and then maybe a macro on in case their skin is good and you wanna get ready close to them and then the camera will probably be ultraviolet it so that you can see what their expression actually is. Yes and for the ultra wide is. We thought you were going to say if you had a very horrifying family I think it just to Max Weinberg in the chat points out that He believes that the reason the S. eleven pluses all one can do on the camera. Module is because of the one hundred eight megapixel sensor on there so they had to rearrange its face basically seems like a very reasonable explanations theme. Oh than than ause which is stub. Think I'm here I mean yeah that make sense. There is only so much that you can do with cameras is is in. Physics insists on having its way as widely Kotei discovered good. So yeah I mean you know of course works for something mobile so yeah I mean that that makes perfect sense Max. Thanks for derailing this with logic. Yes Max is The resident Samsung expert of the English. Speaking Internet I think it's safe to say so. He says that you will have a one hundred eight megapixel primary camera on the plus a ten x telephoto in ultra-wide and the time of Flight Camera. So that is that is four. I think there should be another one in there and the ultra-wide me now. Maybe maybe okay there should should be another one in there. There are five but I guess it's fair to say that Samsung is finally like going back to a focus on cameras which I feel like they've kind of missed out on the last couple of years a little bit. What you think? That's fair to say I think so. I mean I think they were doing very well for a while and then they kind of coasted slightly. But I think it's interesting that we've gone back to. Let's throw lots and lots of different senses. On rather than let's do computational things which kind of feels like. That's being this year's excitement. You know who who who can do. The most interesting computational stuff who can make my photos look better by putting a dedicated on. I love the look of since gone and dismay on your face. I'm just thinking the way I'm thinking about the way Samsung's cameras make things look and that's what's leading to the scorn dismay If you have a brand they do and it's bright and bold and yeah I'm on some people left us. It's basically the opposite of me. Me As a person which is why I think it find it so revolting save revolting there okay. Yep Wow because you'll delightful so I guess the opposite would be revolting Bolton M yeah it gives my skin tone like an actual woman to it which is kind of Nice makes it look like I haven't just been dug up from somewhere. So yeah I I mean there must be people who at least within some Sung Otherwise like they wouldn't do it. Yes so what I what I've heard about this and I think we've talked about this on the show show before as I was at Google flaunt for the pixel four and was talking to some people with some of Google's camera team and what they were saying was that we know these manufacturers Samsung Wallpa- other manufacturers like LG manufactures predominantly from Asia tend to make their cameras a certain way in terms of how voters process because people in their home markets. Expect the photos to come out in that way. It's what they want whereas when they look at how I'll say Google Pixel or an iphone. Does it. They're like no. That's that's it's too harsh. It's a little too. It's a little too unforgiving It doesn't isn't really pop and feel like super contrast to you the way that everybody in these apps like on social media and our countries are modifying their photos to look more like. That's why we changed our cameras to put out photos that look that way as soon as you take them. Do you think that that has some connection to the I feel like beauty modes in those markets worries. He may be they. Okay all less prevalent perhaps Yeah definitely I mean. Google camera finally does have one added it last year. But it's you know it's it's a thing that's obviously growing in the US so it's it seems like maybe we'll eventually will kind of converge on a happy middle ground. I think like the live filters in like the most most phones now like take care of most of that yes I feel like everyone else has been using them and I left out. And that's why I look terrible info table. There's with people and everyone else looks gainful maybe i. I don't know that I can never imagine being the kind of person who likes the way they look in the photo. I'm horrified by every picture of me. Yes well I'm being polite David today so I'm not gonNA go any further. Tom Dot wine. Yeah no that's I think you're right that the certain type of person who loves seeing photos of themselves and ohearing themselves on podcasts. For instance so yeah. Yeah so when one thing I want to talk about before we move onto so you guys. It's going to be a slow news day on the PODCAST and we had Chris on to talk about things that you may totally to not of. But I don't care because I wanNA talk about them But before we end the conversation on the S. Eleven Christie. Think like there is you know any kind of I. I look at the design and I'm like well that looks like every Samsung phone in the the last three years. I think that hurts them or helps them. Do you think it's the brand recognition outweighs the kind of very extremely iterative design language. I feel like the dead kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place in the sentence because the friends of the phone now is just screen. The back is predominantly movie camera Otherwise flat glass. Because that's what you need for wireless charging I feel like there is a limit to what they can do And so may be makes most sense this within two to tap into something which is at least vaguely recognisable for people who recognized Samsung out in the wild because otherwise particularly quake point. Yeah that's true. I mean they're Zayn languages just so samy that I personally like I cannot. It's gotten to the iphone level where I cannot be sure which Samsung phone. I'm looking at unless I get really close to it and honestly sometimes I have to think is that the S. six or the seven. I can't remember what makes them different. Men's so slow to stagger that design language forward. But I guess there's also the fact that most people put their phones in cases so you never see what it looks like like anyway. This is true. I don't use cases to believe in cases like a philosophical like a religious life belief. It is yes I also don't wear shoes. I refuse to wear hats when it's raining And in fact the only sleeves that I wear those like Chris leaves that you pull when you are driving so that when you have your elbow on the window. They don't get some time man of many many any beliefs so now we're going to do a shameless segue into what we know we are here to talk about You know the my Hyundai APP and this will be a very short segway. I promise because the Mayan is one of the least interesting things we could possibly talk about. just got a major redesign which I'm sir everybody at Hyundai Including including Robert Sky or very excited about but The ANDROID APP also now supports Pixel for face unlock rob friend of the show. Even though he probably doesn't listen to it so you know we're we're seeing a lot of these APPs with vehicles. Now that allow you to do a lot of the remote stuff I feel like Hyundai was pretty early to the game for this Don't especially especially like being a budget brand like. This was fairly big deal for them when Blue Blue Link rolled out so it now works with the Pixel four face unlock. So I think think that's where we're going to segue and I wanna you know maybe talk a little bit about like smartphones in cars and then eventually just cars because that will keep my attention better So Chris like serving landscape cars. Obviously I think Tesla's APP is probably the most powerful one great now I think so. Yeah they definitely have invested obviously not so the digital I digital I could be derailed myself. Wow they've they've definitely invested out digital I. I don't even have anything after that. You're not even wearing a dress shirt. I don't think you're allowed to say digital I. Ah I can just clip onto my ear lobe. No they have. They put a lot of money into the driver's off our tax V and they expect back to that kind of thing from the phones. But I think it's definitely something we have seen other role to make his Weighing into mall and I think even more importantly doing it in a way that doesn't demand buck an extra monthly subscription or something. Yeah that's that's the thing with a lot of these. I've I've seen you know I know mercedes-benz for awhile hat. Do they still have the subscription over Mercedes like I do they said there was Mercedes may which does have different subscription components to some of the things difference. Usually you can unlock the car. Check stays at the windows with its Be Remote start that kind of thing from the and then if you want some of the more advanced stuff then typically you have to pay for that. Yeah so one of the more exciting ones. I think I've seen so far. I haven't driven you know any polls stars vehicles yet but it looks like the Pollstar to is going to have fairly impressive one they seem to be targeting Tesla Tesla pretty directly with their experience and it will be free. It sounds like yes. I think this is partly because the the hundred automotive retirement system which I I know you've played with I don't know what you feel about that time. I was kind of impressed by that. I think I think it seems like next Tesla the the most advanced implementation we've seen I think think Tesla's Tesla's still wins for slickness. There's no denying that the look of their interfaces. There's there's a clear focus vision there. They wanted to look at very particular killer way. I think with what you've seen. Based on android automotive so far is a more generic Very modular kind of looking platform. I feel feel like it's not it's not super slick not saying it has to be and in the world of CARB implement U.. Is like it's still light years ahead of so many of them right now. But so what brands do we know if being on board so far. I know we've got a Volvo and pulsar. Audi I think has committed to to teasing under those motive. I think interesting identity. How much of the the alley also showed news the UCLA from last week one of the features that they've just announced that rap is is the ability to temporarily enable some of the using the APP? Temporal Abelson the features in the car Whether that's a more advance to have crews or would affect different things neither do that pay paying the subscription ongoing. If you just want to for a month you can just turn it on through the APP. It's kind of an interesting. Yeah I'm not saying I necessarily expected from Saudi to be honest with you. micro transactions but for cars. Yeah I think it's a I think they would probably Roth's think about it as a way to upsell you after you've left the daily but yet just and I think that's. That's really interesting the times when you know maybe you want something Cadillac Super Cruise. You know if you're doing a long journey and you don't want to have to have hands on the steering wheel do you want to pay the upfront cross cost for that now. We all the time when you're not necessarily going to use it Yeah yeah definitely. I think that gets into the topic of you know where a lot of automakers are going which is cars as a service which I think is definitely like the biggest shift. We're seeing in the business right now. Do you feel like that's kind of the inevitable direction or do you think that's kind of something there. It's just an experiment. I mean I think that there are always going to be people who need tono feel. They need to own a car without because of where they live because they like his Akilah vehicle they have six children or something foolishly am but but I think that there's also big cohort of people who live in cities may be all who live in multiple places but the time between different cities different locations. Who may be? We want the flexibility of having a choice of different vehicles or having a vehicle sometimes pull not having to think about. Where am I going to get most of the time and so I think yeah the the there are plenty of interesting moguls? I don't think it's necessarily replace the kind of the traditional coaches elise plum but I think some of the costs subscription services that we've seen a very interesting because I'm contractually obligated to bring it back to phones occasionally. I think this does mirror a little bit of what we see with smartphones. Apple's had a lot of success I think with the IPHONE upgrade program and T. mobile and others have had similar programs where essentially you don't you never really own the phone a meaningful sense. You just kind of trade back in when you want a new one. which is I think you know? Somewhere to leasing. But funds are more service at oriented to begin with so it's kind of a fascinating parallel to see. I think the auto industry probably drawing upon on some of these ideas. They've seen come from technology more than you know. We're already part of the existing automotive business. Absolutely I think what's particularly interesting is not note tool to make a kind of doing the same way. So you've got some of the most luxury brands like Porsche. A CADILLAC had assist scheme scheme for wild What you could basically you pay a monthly subscription and then you get to choose from a long list of of different bottles if you want to change every week you can change that? Every week someone wearing white gloves comes in takes away your old dirty carbon brings you a brand new them and then you have someone like Volvo which by Volvo which which is kind of more of a traditional phone selective upgrade very much like the front program You sign up. He said you want this particular call. You pay a single monthly fee. Okay which includes the car in the servicing everything apart from gas basically and then after twelve months. If you want a different call you can have that one back and get a different well-known A two year agreement. I think that's really you know it's interesting but at the same time. Not everyone wants that said. The postal woman is just about to stop production shipping mid with you. Next year they originally the plan for that was going to be that it would be a subscription only scheme and then they hit the feedback people. Actually they wanted to own it. They didn't WANNA give it back so the not I'm not doing a subscription and it's just going to two hundred and fifty five thousand dollars X.. Volvo concept hybrid yeah. I really want to drive that Jp We we can get tried to tell me I would be able to drive it so I'm like fingers crossed over here for a loner once everybody else's done with them because it seems it seems very exciting. It's a really interesting interesting cough. I mean I think. Electric occasion is the future But I think there is. The future doesn't kind of arrive in one big lump it kind of trickles goes in like your wet yourself on a plane and so I think the idea of a performance hybrid. That has maybe some of the better qualities of luxury carbon than also that sort of the reassurance when it comes to things range of of gas engine I think there's a lot of there's a lot of scope to to kind of tape. BATOUTY's we move into our old electric he long musk's future. Yeah and I guess that kind of gets to the broader discussion. You know so again. I must. I'm forced to bring it back the smartphones smartphones. Were like this crazy transformative word of moment for personal technology. I've said this on the show multiple times before that really like I think to me like smartphones that moment when smartphones went mainstream that was like the model t that was a just totally changed the way everybody did everything in the way they interacted with technology and the parts of their lives they will take with them everywhere that was it was really it really really. I can't imagine living without a smartphone anymore and I think that's true of the vast majority of people now living without a smartphone would be difficult and annoying and you in many ways it would also to be healthier but none of us would ever want to go back. I don't know I mean I. I hate what you say about the health side. I don't know I feel like the research thing thing is too much of something absolutely but I feel like the upsides of what we can access to a smartphone. What we have with us and what you can do with it? I feel like you know with temperance. Great responsibility I feel like the benefits outweigh the costs. Yeah I've full disclosure. I just felt like I needed needed to give that argument some oxygen. I don't actually believe it. I know you've never believed anything you've said in public so no never not a single word of it but I feel like they were actually approaching. We already had one of those moments with with personal transportation with Carson. I feel like we are sloops. Cars move slowly. I mean it's not in the actual literal sense but now some of them do move slow at times but I think that we're like like coming up on this this moment where we're going to watch. There's basically going to be a tipping point and were it. Seems like we're getting there like quicker than I think most people would have expected. Initially Tesla's really been kind of the the engine behind that transformation. I don't think there's anybody that would argue. Even if they are protests anti Tesla or apathetic Tesla that Tesla has been the single biggest transformative force in the industry in terms of like POW every other automakers responding to electrification Asian do changes in vehicle design infotainment technology in general. And so you know. Obviously Tesla had its big unveil this past week and you were there right. I was not physically the now I know I sadly missed out on the fire and the the bladerunner theme and hitting hearing the glass shatter that would be the best part hearing the glass shattered. That was quite a moment which has been talked death on the Internet but it still seems perfect picked for Elon? Musk it seemed like truly the thing that should happen to him once. I can't remember how I saw a tweet about it but some saying well actually you know it's the Putts Elon Elon. Musk stood in front of a massively. Ahmed looking pickup truck with smashed windows sort of says it all about the future. This is this is the vehicle to Hustle your children into into you know and then behind medically sealed inside and and hope that the the have nots will not be able to batter their way through because they haven't hit the Dole with a hammer thirst for doing the window test. Yes you have to win their tests. I always windows has so if I were to draw parallel to phones I mean the Motorola Razor is a form form factor exploration. I talked about this with Michael Fisher on the show Last week I guess and you know we talked about like why people would want this. What would be polarizing polarizing about it? What would be the drawbacks? And obviously the cyber truck is actually a pretty good analog for that because there is so much about it that immediately screams. There are a lot of reasons. You shouldn't want to touch this thing with a ten foot pole and yet there has been such a dramatic response from the other side. Who seemed to be embracing the contrarian awesome of this vehicle? I would say this is a trillion vehicle. It is very much you know you either love it or he really really don't love it and I mean I must let me know I'd I'd I think the styling is really. It's done the eyecatching. I think that the video of the tug of war with the F.. Fifty I think less interesting was the kind whoever won the tug of war. Whatever reasons that might be behind that intensive physics but I think more interesting was just that difference in styles? It looks like they rendered the the the right of the screen weather truck as and on the F.. One fifty is such a familiar sight. Because you know it looks like so many trucks on the road because fold obviously nobody sells a absolute metric of them so I mean lots of them on the road. It's very hard to imagine. A Tesla cyber truck just pulling past you Yeah and I I know I'm I'm personally on the side of the fence that believes these cyber trek will not quite look as it does brighten. Now I'll absolutely not I mean it's that there are so many things about it wichita which ought not at all production ready with it doesn't have side mirrors in US regulations. Say That at the moment you must have a glass side mirror. which is what's holding off Audi and others who would like to cameras on the side instead of them? I cannot imagine that he will remind it gets in the market without bumpers of some sorts. I want to be the pedestrian industry. And who is responsible testing the safety crumple zones of incredibly strong stainless steel. You know that's the reports of college as opposed to break Kim when you crash because the car is sacrificial you the nuns you have inside knocked so yeah I mean I'm I'm very definitely we've seen the concept on. Lots of people have put look down one hundred dollars that they could get back to help fund production of local wine. And I'm very much looking forward to seeing Side by side talk about that turns out because no it will not look exactly like what we have seen. No almo- almost certainly not granted that won't stop deep brand from selling skins for it already Yeah good for them. You know I mean I think that speaks you know. That's that's kind of speaks to the expectations that concepts can can set set for people and I feel like obviously there are people out there right now who look at this truck and have decided that. Oh this is what it's going to look like. There is a lot of confusion Asian about that because Tesla was not open about the fact that it is a concept. I mean anybody who works in the industry knows looking at that. That's obviously a concept vehicle doesn't meet lighting eating standards visibility standards like could never sell it in Europe because like that thing has more sharp edges than like a pile of knives. But it's there are so many things about would have to change but I feel like a huge part of the Internet his latched on to the various specific ecstatic Elon. Musk who I think it's fair to say ee. Lon on musk is the person behind much of this design. It feels very personal to him. Yeah everything I've heard from people talking whether whether that's within several kinds of people who know people have it's this is definitely this is what e- wanted the truck to look and go you make this happen and I. I think it's interesting because in previous years we've seen previous Tesla caused has been just as most of Musk Fanta for the model for the model three blacks rex but all of those caused kind of has we sold them for the first time would come fairly close to what the production car and looking like. Yeah and I I think in in a sense you know we tesla has set this up to expect that that they don't really do prototype so concept cars so much they just kind of say look we have made this incredible things thing and he will want it because it does electric and and I wonder whether that has played some role there in Maine people thinking hang on. I'm GonNa get this incredible wedge. I think you're absolutely right about that. The Tesla has set that expectation but Tesla's designs have also I wouldn't say Tesla's cars are ugly but they are very generic in a way. The lions aliens are very simple There are lots of very gentle swoops. You know nothing too dramatic or edgy. I think they they play a lot with Tessa supplied with shape. I think more than a lot of automakers do you get the sense that Tesla could be shrunken down to like something the size of the toy and you could feel the shape of that a car in your hand in a way that would feel like a like a polished rock. Almost you know. They're very smooth cars because the loco fishing of drag. They've gone for oftentimes absolutely. Yeah on the Some things that make a lot of sense if you're making electric car particular. which is that you want it to be slippery through the one of the things that surprises me? Kind of the model three is how I always think it looks better in chunks raw as a whole if you catch size of one kind of between the causing traffic just see like the the side mirror brace bracket is really quite beautiful innocence. Some which are quite elegant. You know there are some angles on it. Whichever sweeping flooding and then we put it all together? It's like yeah yeah I think yeah it feels like actually we're going to go off on a tangent about this. When I look at the model three I always see two different cars? There's the rear quarter view. You which I think is great. There's the front quarter view which I think is well. I not as much of a fan playing aero-dynamics more on the front. I feel like in the back doc. I feel like they had A. They have actually a pretty unique. Look in the rear of that car in the front it is kind of a blob. Unfortunately d think that they went. He went extreme with the cyber truck because some of the feedback to the model. Why was that? It was just a slightly inflated mogul through your I don't know I mean it's I I feel like this probably the cyber truck design has been sketched on a Napkin for some years now. I don't know that it's a response in the model y which admittedly has been it quite harsh. I don't think that ugly. I don't know how long I would say that. That's that design has actually been finalized but he had. Yeah Yeah No I. I don't think otherwise ugly but I think it is very clear what it is related to Moso when you went from s two X. Yeah yeah which we know I. I called the Model X.. When it came out the machine that births model S.'s it's like the mother wail centuries? Yes it does look like it just opens up a Model S.. Comes out of the back of it. So what do we talk about concepts you know. This is something that we used to see Ed more with smartphones. We used to see companies. Bring us you know like new ideas that were a little crazy in a little on the edge and going back to the razor. I feel like that was actually the one where we did get a little. Bit of a preview It was three years ago. Three and a half years ago. Now when the When the first motos e dropped rice yes so so in San Francisco you know Lenovo had that event and you could go to this little blinova? RND talk that. They had right there and they had you know the head of their R D operation showing off like three different foldable prototypes. They had and one of them was a tablet. One of them was a tablets phone so it folded out to tablet folded up to become a phone. They were all functional They all look kind of Janke but they worked they were you know they were real and so I feel like what we ended up with the irony. You know with a razor which I think it's fair to say has received substantially more praise for its design than the galaxy fold has We ended up going very backwards with that. I don't think at the time you know. Many people were convinced that direction we're vocals were GONNA go toward this admittedly quite retro design language which I think is is pretty interesting components of the two I would much rather have a razer foam factor than a fold phone factor. I think the idea of having a big screen on a smartphone is something that people used to now and I would not like to give up but I also feel feel like carrying a big screen device is annoying sometimes On I think it would be more knowing if I was if I will women's men's clothes and had no pockets to carry a bag around with me incredibly annoying and so the idea of having something which is I've never really felt like. Oh I need something about about the size of an Ipod mini to carry around with me and I'm just folded up into a chunky phone. This goes into my pocket but I have thoughts about. This phone is big. You know I'm just GONNA hold its. It's all going to put it in my pocket with my keys. Yeah that's that's kind of where I fall on that spectrum but I know that other people feel differently there are a diversity of opinions opinions out there on it. I will say I think that the Motorola version for the reasons you cite has much more of a mainstream appeal. I think it's much easier to sell people that idea and say well now. Your phone is huge and it doesn't fit anywhere and you're constantly dropping it. Well what if we just made it so it folds up and so when you drop it basically as a case on it already and you don't have to worry about scratching it up. which all of STU if you keep your gene if you keep your phone excuse me if you keep your gene in your phone if keep your phone in your jeans you know that little that little change POCKET DOC at Rivet Hits it every time you pull the phone out. It's just the worst so I did find the price we pay for keeping a dime on us all the time. Yes it is I I just I find it. I find it curious that you know this. Radical form factor update for phones. You know the the direction that seems to be both practical bill so far. Is You know one we already explored. I'm not sure where I was taking that in larger discussion about design and concept cars. But I think that the razor blade the angle with no. I'm sure there was an angle. was that sometimes. You know the extreme concepts concepts that we say as valid in the long term perhaps as some of the maybe more mainstream ones which actually turned out to be deceptive in this implicitly. I couldn't couldn't have said it better myself. That actually couldn't say again. I've been yeah so I think that well. Let's let's talk about the future of phone. So I talked about this with with Michael Fisher Fisher last week and brought to the razor. We are of differing points of view on this in terms of what the future holds to me. I as much as I see some of the ball drawbacks of the big flat screen. That foldable like the razor solves. I also see the compromises that design introduces especially for the time being because plastic plastic and all of that kind of stuff you know just general reliability. You know how you have to design something folding moving components in everything even if all of that were solved loved I still feel like probably. These phones will remain expensive and at least considerably more expensive than our regular old bricks and that to me on on the conceptual level there's nothing that seems totally broken about the brick that needs to be revolutionised or am. I just not being being forward thinking enough. I think you're being realistic. which is important you know? And I think you're right that this is not going to be a mainstream foam factor anytime soon if a toll but I I mean I feel like if you go back to the first few generations of galaxy note and not size of scream and then you go back before that look at something like the Dell streak which I can still remember the vote missile donations by besides. Yeah I know and it was like it was back can win. The first ipod was coming out with news. This kind of like well this is. What is it what you know? Is it a fun as the tablets. at what is this the future and in a way it kind of did turn out to be the future because big screens have become ubiquitous. Now I don't know I feel like the there is a we have reached a kind of limit. The moment were in screen size. You can't go that much bigger because while I it's like wheels. Yes absolutely lupe because you know practically than used to you stop to lose things in return for the benefit of having more screen real estate and I feel like the the raw always going to be people who want a bigger screen and so a foldable device will cater to those people. But I don't think I I agree with that. I don't think this is going to be the future of phones. Yeah so I I. I drew an analogy when talking about this with Michael last week that I was a car analogy so I think it works and I I asked him. Do you think I think in the future you know because smartphones we've reached saturation the markets massive. There are just so many handsets shipped every year and manufacturers are struggling more and more to differentiate they're coming me more and more expensive but there's clearly a market of people who are willing to pay an obscene amount of money for a phone. You know people are buying the iphone. Eleven pro Max It's I'm sure it's selling very well so clearly. You know whether or not that's for reasons that are practical as much as well as the new iphone and I must have the new iphone but I thank you know the way I looked at the razor was say you know if this phone sounds like this will cost twelve hundred fifteen hundred dollars for the perceivable future or more but it becomes a little easier to produce them they become more reliable most of the kind of basic limitations behind them. Dissolve into the background. where it's like? Well you aren't giving up much. You just have to pay for it. Do you feel like there could be a category of essentially like I would tell them the sports cars of phones these exotic devices where you can support a business business can act as a halo product from the rest of your portfolio and maybe they don't make a ton of money but you know they're really what gets people in the door what people associate associate the brand with versus trying to make something like the razor mainstream. Yeah I would like to think that there would be a room. Always something exciting different even very you know one should by a first generation Motorola razor just seems like a given an probably no one should buy a second generation But I'm very glad that there are people out there who are buying them and Tina who have kind of disposable income to spend on something which is pop useful and partly just for the I love the attack and I think the sports car analogy is on the record. We're going to be people who is GonNa be a always a massive audience of people who need something reliable on who go down and buy A Chevy Malibu reliable anyway who who got a Toyota Camry which is a very solid gray recall does everything he would want it to But probably isn't going to get your heart rate going. You know. It isn't going to be something that you'd be like. Oh we must outside to the parking garage and see my Toyota Camry which is a shame maybe book more camry fetishists. But that's a that's Oh yeah the community I want to get into a niche within a niche. I think yeah there is. There is always going to be in caused this kind of group of people who want to have something which very few other people have and I think that's part of the appeal. I think if ironically if photos became mainstream would be a group of people who'd be like. Oh well I didn't want mainstream anymore. All I want whatever is next so there's always going to be like this cohort of people who a willing to pay more for something that very fewer people are. Yeah absolutely and I just wonder you know now that we've we've watched the market for smartphones really mature. You know the part of the appeal of upgrading. Your smartphone and has been in the last decade. There has been some pretty substantial improvements that have come a long. You know we've a lot of them are iterative but if you go back to an iphone four even I and compare the camera and the battery life and what the screen looks like. And all of that. You'd be like Oh this is actually garbage Guess cars move into. We thought it was great. Yes we did we I mean. The design was revolutionary. It was like totally like no other phone. It looked before which was cool but with cars you know the product cycles so slow hello and also the car itself has honestly changed very little in the last probably twenty five thirty years I feel like especially we started. Slow down outside of like the very exotic stuff where you know. Some exciting things are happening but for being a regular ordinary cars things haven't changed and so as the smartphone like really stabilizes realizes and just basically becomes a commodity I do wonder if we'll eventually see more investment income by companies into these halo style products in a way they were. They probably wouldn't have justified it before because it would be too risky. It would be too much of a diversion of business resources whereas today will you can say Samsung wants. Make the Galaxy S. eleven. Do we need to put all you know how many how many of our engineering resources realistically do. We need to put into this device to make sure I heard that it's competitive with everything else that comes out next year. And how much do we have left over for the really radical ideas. You know the things where we're spending a lot of money we're probably not making much and end you know we're making we're taking risks and I think that we haven't you know the phone hasn't become mature enough yet. I think we're just on the cusp of that. Perhaps I think there's something about you can either take a risk. Because he wants to make something that is punishable new for its own sake or you can see his well. Let's rinse those very early adopters to get them to foot. The bill full developments. That are GONNA filter down. I think we do you know. I think he actually the car industry is a good example about you look at some like Bhagat Safe Winstons owned by VW group. You know very few people are GonNa go out and buy it three and a half million dollars. Pathetic Sharon sadly cough. Aw but you know some of the things that The GOTTI has done in undeveloped that and has been able to to do that that they are very upset about you know that they can do only because they have these incredibly well-heeled customers those things do gradually filter on down through the whether it's a engine timing stuff different systems. Put the TAB. The Tab charges are managed that kind of thing things filter down from those incredibly expensive. 'cause into overtime you know the Audis and the porsches is on the VW goat isn't say whatever the a within the group so I kind of wonder whether policy issues that we don't have any of these big phone groups. Thanks for instance I guess the closest you get maybe would be like while away on you know where you have different tiers of of provider that there isn't really this kind of there is no you gotta of Afon Bruns. That is part of an overall group rarely can then filter down technology without diluting. The GATTY is doing obviously. It's kind it's always been a race to the bottom and electron ix. So you have to. You have to put the most with the least and that's always been the model but I I just I do wonder you know we. We've seen that happen a little bit with gaming. PC's gaming PC's have once again become quite expensive. If you really want to go all out you know we do see companies like Intel L. and amd bidding out products that are clearly all margin At the very top of their portfolios to people who are willing to pay and it's just about a willingness is to pay it's not about the practical benefit of the product necessarily. It's like I want to have the biggest fastest thing. Yes yeah no one needs to go not sixty in two point. Four seconds seconds as opposed to two point six seconds is being able to say to someone. Mine we'll do two point four seconds you know is the Type of person Not An unusual usual type of person. Who enjoys that kind of this kind of bragging rights thing about which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing? Yeah I mean it's it's a reality that keeps that market it alive which I'm very much in favor of Yeah no I will always be in favor of the. The Wang waving keeps sports car alive. I think that's a that's a reality. We must live with yes. I cleared having nice things and we like things so way. Fo- spanks thanks quote. Chris Davies wave those wings. And I know but it's a good one for the show. I think we we've met bar. I forget where I wanted to go after this the wing waving is totally totally thrown. Me Off here let's Let's take a minute to thank our sponsor ourselves The android please podcast live on twitch. Four Times a week You can catch us on Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays. Doing a podcast. On on Tuesdays we have to queue in Asia with cody and Orbin. We can't do it without your support. The best way to do that. 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If you want to be paid subscriber tears started five dollars a month and Yeah so twitch dot TV slash android police and if you don't use twitch and just want to give a shoutout being an email us at podcast android please dot com if you want to give us a donations. They thanks for doing so or doing Andrew please. Andrew Police Dot Com and donate button up there. Thanks for listening to the show. Show off I think I guess it's going to have to die fully. End the cars for the last quarter. This show here because it's the I know you're you're you're you're horrified hits. It's constant caused done you. 'cause you're Wales ashes just the worst so were you at the Machi launch at the La auto show. I was yes you do. You think I think that it makes a Lotta sense for food. I think that whilst they'll stunk purists very angry about it being cold a mistake I think it makes perfect sense for them. You know no I think as a recognizable brand. It's you know it's something that is very easy to tap into and and I think it's also unfortunately one of those caused. That looks much better in person. The pictures come. Because I know that you know you have been very reticent to set to St Louis I of the new Mustang Rocky. You have have been very quiet about that. I I do have to say that even if it does look better in person. Those wheels the Wheel Arches are criminal. I don't know how those made it in their very very strange. They offer strange odd decision. But I think as a car for Ford that this is definitely the most important vehicle. They've introduced probably recent the explorer. I think that's fair to say Yeah or even before him. I think it's it's a call. They definitely needed to do and they needed to commit to it and they needed to give it every possible opportunity to to kind of John Catch. Hold which you know calling it. A Mustang is part of that. Yeah so what do you think that you know for long term strategy if you look at Mustang sales of her last you know eight to ten years. Basically since the recession Mustang sales bounceback wants back for a little bit but they've been on a steady decline for the last four years or so and you know for with generation Mustang honestly aside from the switch to IRA independent rear suspension. The car fundamentally did not appeal to new fires. It didn't try to up the technology very much it was still just about. It's just an engine in the set of wheels. Let's be honest and attached to a brand. You know it's the brand. It's the engine. It's the it's the everything Mustang stands for and I do wonder. Do you feel like did the audience for that kind of car is shrinking. Absolutely yeah I think so. And I think the full rank Thorough plans for a hybrid mustang. which will be you know like an actual could rather than this? SUV's factor that will soon fall roll. They've said is kind of power of va with more like a V6 sort of sized engine engineer most so we don't know exactly what it's going to be like but I. I think that they recognize that. The audience out full dot sort of traditional coupon convertible is shrinking is dying. There are a few people interested in that so I feel like I think that you're seeing I think might might might take onto has been you with the younger generation of buyers are seeing people that look at cars I as a practical conveyance and second is a lifestyle choice where you know earlier generations often that was flipped because everybody could buy a new car they were all pretty affordable and so your car much more about making a statement whereas today a lot of people trying to get by without cars. They don't have to have one in if they do they. Kind of the the the one car family I would guess is on the rise. I don't know if I've seen satistics about that but do you. Do you know anything to support that. I think that there is definitely an expectation that people will be able to do more with a bomb vehicle the compromises we'll will be last and I think electric vacation plays nicely because you know the raw packaging benefits to stuff not no longer having a big fuel tank and a big Dessel diesel-engine fronts fronts and being able to Kinda push those electric Out to the PUCK. You bought trees underneath and just having a much. Bigger more flexible Kevin. I think that the definitely still people who have that sort of old school style. Look into the lifestyle. I I think. What's maybe changed as being the lifestyle has changed and that the cause that they identify with not those kind of the big displacement traditional pony cob muscle car kind of things that they want you know people who following the cutting edge trends may be looking for something which which is electric bill which has a kind of a more modern sort of spin on it? And that's why I think the I think the mustangs seen perhaps as being a little good old fashioned and footy answer the people who are coming out with a lifestyle I kind of attitude. It doesn't resonate with them. Yeah and I think that's you know. I think that's probably probably for for me when I look at the. We both live in California so we do have a skewed view of it. But we've rapidly seen basically tesla takeover as has the image car for the state like without a doubt everybody's aspirational vehicle. You have one if you are a typical non-core enthusiast person. It's a tesla like I. I just don't think there are many exceptions. That Real Los Angeles is a bit of a strange car market. There are some people there who still attached you. Know a lot of sentiment and value to certain luxury brands but I think the general population has really shifted to Tesla's. We know this is what you want to own one day. It's the car that you know. Says he feel like you've made it. which is what a lot of the traditional cars Mustang Camaro corvette used to stand for and a lot of ways at least a higher trims? So I think that's been a shift that probably he caught eighty feel like that. I mean I would say the big three off guard absolutely. I think that part of it. I don't know when you will last inside a Mustang or Camaro for that matter Iranian recently. Yeah Yeah I'm so sorry but yeah because you know one of the things that stood out to me when I saw the McCain was the the cabin is just looking ahead in terms of design and fit and finish in the technology and just the quality of you get into a a Mustang and the plastics achieve things breath limb in hard is very much the sense that they focused the spending on a big engine on the performance side of it and maybe the starting side of it and on everything else is kind of the coin is what cuts because like you said you know in the old days that these calls. We're very affordable and to do that. They had to make sacrifices somewhere. I think that that kind of attitude the speed and the performance in the sound is the most important thing has carried on. It means you get into one now. And he's like Oh yes yeah. Fords are probably the least favorite of of any current automaker they are. They're also very claustrophobic. For whatever reason I don't like sitting in their cars very much. They're they're quite one of the things things that they devote specifically talked about when we looked at the Mustang Blackie was the you know they have chosen a positive unusual for them kind of colors. Bright light writers it it feels more area inside and I think that anything is going to sway a lot more people because you get into it and you don't feel like you just sinking into this book. It's pots been black plastic caustic. The things that you'd actually you don't mind touching recoil from him in horror and I if I were to once again draw my contractually obligated analogy phones. I would say that if you're if we're on the cusp of the smartphone. I feel like a lot of cars right now. A lot of you know especially from American. Automakers I feel like late era blackberry and palm where it's like all of the things that these companies are doing are acceptable because no one has emerged to offer them a real challenge college and say you can look at this problem completely differently in offer a totally different solution which is in a way? What apple did you know? You can argue nuances about it. But apple release said well. What if we just got rid of all this legacy stuff that you think is necessary that you think needs to be here and throw it all out the window and it's just a screen now and I think that's actually really? What Tesla did there like? All these buttons and switches. They need to go Just put it all on screen. I mean it. Actually the apple and Tesla Analogy Ajay. Think works fairly well. There in terms of their approach it does but I think where it may be starts to To kind of full show his the facade. Long Tesla any it must have been saying that they want the rest of the industry to catch up. You know that they are so keen and excited about this idea of the rest of the world catching up releasing electric. 'cause moving away from Templeton Russian and I think that they I think they do that but I think that they end up then forcing themselves into more more extreme positions Vehicles like Siva truck. Because I think that when you are our small player yeah all of a sudden other people come along and things like you know sufficient range and performance and quality in the charging infrastructure which is slowly starting to get the When the when the low hanging fruit is picked off then you have to go from all kinds of extravagant sheltie things which I didn't think apple necessarily early how to do whereas I feel like we've kind of seen with the salvator particularly this sort of got we need to Kinda crank up the showmanship? We need to bring out a concept car because all of the things that we were doing that no one else was doing and we will point to him saying. Why aren't they doing this now? The kind of starting to do I mean I don't know I guess you could say it's kind of Tesla's trash can Mac moment went but I think I agree. The analogy does breakdown when really truly explored. But I think it's also you know like you said it's a function of cars moving more slowly slowly. Things take a long time and takes a long time to be responsive and I think with smartphones but we saw was apple. You know as a brand became highly associated with this says how you do it and I do think Tesla's still has that pretty commandingly so far you know they've they've they've defined the conversation which I think is the biggest thing you can do in any product segment you can say you can basically set the blueprint and I think that you know with certain cars you know like some some automakers like Ford obviously with Machi gone all in on Tesla's approach. They've said all right. This is what selling like we should sell. What sells that's an obvious approach whereas you have another brand like Porsche which is saying you know? No no we are going to take what we do. And we're going to apply it to this larger electric concept. If you driven the taken yet I haven't I I was supposed to and then I couldn't make it was very annoyed but I think the interesting thing the is the maybe push. It can do that because they are politics. Volkswagen group and so do they can do that because the folks is going to turn out however many tens hundreds of thousands of ID threes and fours. Whatever on they're going to be like a vast vast number of basic regular electric 'cause from Volkswagen group across its various Brunson poultry will be able to kind of cherry pick the best of those components? I think the car industry does move new very slowly but once you get up to speed with these kind of platforms auto tech Cha's like VW's some other companies. It means that they he can very quickly Say Well Okay we're GONNA make the hatchback and then we're also going to use the same platform extended slightly put music extra length possible batteries in some kind of a billion really. And we've got to make a different size crossover because we can just shrink that down all of a sudden they have maybe took them a while to get up to speed and once the the the the scaling I think is a lot easier for them to tesla will experience. Yeah I think that makes sense. I did remember what I wanted to talk about. I think it's good. I think it's a little bit to end the show on because it's actually related to our subject matter in some kind of way so I mean I'm sorry you know I. I'm sure everybody wants keep talking about cars cars endlessly but we are GonNa talk about cars just more mobile related sense so one of the things that we hear blasio unite both go to a lot of events put on by the likes of QUALCOMM. Welcome carriers and basically everybody. Let's say the larger five G. space which makes me feel icky say but it's true so qualcomm and all these other companies carriers especially talk a huge game about like V v C and five G. and enabling you know oh the vehicle communication and all sorts of things and I feel like ice just hear crickets from automakers on most of this stuff there seems to be live. Live very little interest in discussing product-development plants and where this technology stands with them and we see all these technology companies acting like. Oh you're going to see the stuff in the next few years. I don't I don't know if I buy that. What's what's your take on? How do you relate the cars? I think I mean I think the survey stuff on the kind of vehicle to infrastructure stuff stuff is really interesting but like you say we haven't really seen a huge amounts of of actual movements at that in terms of commercializing it. There's been a few if you know you can buy in particular the thing. The Cadillac C. S. has vetoed allows cadillacs to talk to each other. I think it's the interoperability thing which has which has struggled the fact that the five G. is nowhere near ubiquitous enough to. You know that if you if you're in a car and some the drive out of coverage when you lose your veto vehicle to infrastructure. What I would say is that we're starting to see it now? Kind of being -cluded in or on the road mapfumo popular calls house said like the new Volkswagen. Gol For instance dragging it back to calls again new New Gulf is going to have veto via stunned. You know and if you look at a number of those caused how's that they sell every year hundreds of thousands across Europe and this is kind of like all of a sudden you get to this tipping point. It just takes someone saying well we're GONNA make it default volt looking to make it's time to just like we saw with Fujioka in caused WIFI hotspots in the manufacturer saying well look we're GONNA put it in some people will activate it some people won't we can maybe use the Lt backbones deliver some things we can do something with it and the number of people activating it and paying every month will kind of balance it out for the people people who don't I think five G. has a I agree with you that we hear a lot of great toke from the carriers and from the chip makers and none none of them really have a particularly because the role of the the most of the people actually building those types into the products and until the cockpit. Decide that this is something. You've is worth enduring if you will pay for. They're not going to do. And I think the Casino for me looking at how cars fell you know. I live in an area where I see waymo vehicle because I saw Waymo as the other day it's I I've seen But you know seeing these cars obviously and learning about like you know. I'm sure you've heard about some of the a new next-gen lighter systems that are going to be a lot less expensive now because they won't require rotating basically anymore So you know as if you know anything about cars in a lighter I think light are sensors can cost upwards of ten fifteen thousand dollars apiece ludicrous like that is insanely expensive. And so there's been a huge tremendous effort by some start ups to really really scale down. That cost sounds like some of them are succeeding now and so to me. It's Kinda the same attention you have with smartphones and five G. when it comes to like on device computing power in a I in very sensors and new kinds of chips are putting in and in cars where we are getting to the point and obviously Tesla has proven to a reasonable extent. You can put enough stuff in a car locally that it can do a lot odd of the operations that were expecting five G. to help enable and so I do think there's some tension there were you. Have you know an approach of like we're GONNA jam car full of sensors and that's going to be approach. We're not gonNA worry about all of this vehicle infrastructure nonsense or complying with these standards. You know when we can just say one hundred percent foreshore under every condition connection or not. Your car is going to be able to respond to behave the way you want it to versus the other side where I think you know. Obviously I think Volkswagen is in the VW that makes sense because they're in mass market had economy cars where they're saying a modems a lot cheaper if we can just send and receive data. That's you know a lot less of an investment for us but you know you you wonder like well is the our economies of scale just going to make it such that not putting the sensors in the car just becomes foolish. funnily enough I'm so full will will the Mustang Marquee will loan with just a regular adaptive cruise control but down the line but one thing that planning to do is kind of a tesla style. autopilots tall comes off system. Though which will use attention monitoring sensor on the steering column. You'll be able to just it was people keep to the lane They're gonNA use some high position. GPS mapping from super crews and the building the sense in from the stocks so most trims of the car they haven't said exactly which yet but they will have things like the ultrasonic sensors and the Eh cameras and things but those have law and so they wouldn't confirm exactly how many lighter sentences there again to be interesting. But I mean like he's thank you say this is. This is very very unusual for kind of reproduction cough to including any light offenses just his up until very recently it was just a prohibitively expensive. You know it was not something really expensive and also they won't really you know spinning sense. That sticks out of the bodywork of the car is on the top of the car. Like top hats. It's aesthetically it doesn't work damaged easily. A light art center does look legitimately silly. It does it does. And so these kind of solid state sensors. That can be fed in that. A lot complaints The smaller companies the companies. The Tae one kind of supplies like people like that slipping working on the can just be hidden behind the body. We don't need to have kind of big cutout windows and things. I think we're starting to see now. The point what Tesla the Ford plans to just include thoughts on all of the the kind of the eligible models at some point the will be a phone phone were updates and they get enabled them. I mean that seems like kind of a game changer. In this is something that you know. The manufacturers mentioning names have said financially infeasible isn't really required for the systems and so to see a kind of one of the mainstream big three automakers saying no we're GONNA kinda use lied are in some sense. I think he's really interesting and at some point. Obviously you're going to probably have a situation where WAYMO Who I think it's fair to say they are the leaders on self driving a proven in a line live environments? You know waymo gets lots of deserve criticism for certain things but I think in terms of actual product and showing off. You know nobody's nobody's had more guts In terms of like saying just get her car and ride and see what happens you know. They've done that now. And it works And I know that Uber has already you know basically said is in some recent business filings and statements on the record like we're probably going to half the license license Google's technology. That's the way it's going to have to be if we want. self-driving taxis and I'm sure carmakers Fiat. Chrysler is already showing a strong interest in Google technology. You too so at some point you have to imagine that Google way mobile just have basically here list of specifications. Here's what your car needs to have and beacon licensed since you this package where they just become a bosh basically. Yeah and and I think people coming look looking at it from the smaller funds on the fence. Things may be. Don't really understand how modular is is. Some of the technology is the ultimate cause using the test is quite unusual for doing a lot of it in house and even then you know it uses census mother people at the RAW. If you have on adaptive cruise control system in your car or lane keeping assistance so blind spot monitoring is often just both from Tehran. Supply like Bausch oath someone like that and just dropped wholesale into the car just Stitched together like some on wrinkly Frankenstein's monster. Yeah so I think yeah there is. There is entirely the possibility of of of someone like waymo being like well. We're not going to make our own. 'cause I do that the economic data terrible in the margins on building in causes pretty bad. So why don't we just be supply for thing. That increasingly old cars are going to need to have. Yeah I think that's CNN kind of the future that makes it makes a lot of sense given where state of the market is in Tesla's obviously never going to share anything they have They have no interest in doing that. And why would they honestly you know. Yeah they don't they don't need that it's it's exclusive thing that they have. You can count on to differentiate themselves. I wouldn't share it if I were them. Yeah okay okay We're we've already run a little long this week so I would like to thank you Chris for joining us for this riveting conversations having not making me talk about phones constantly instantly yeah talking about phones constantly does make me sad And it probably makes our listeners. Sad to hear about cars but I promise we'll get back to phones on Friday. We'll have David Immel on the show and Welcome knows about car and he knows nothing about cars. I promise. I'm pretty sure this topic David does not know less about then cars. I wouldn't go if I can drive though which is always a shop really. Yeah that's shocking. Actually I know you heard it here. Maybe I well All topics we've talked about today can be found at android police dot com slash. Podcast were live four times a week at twitch dot TV slash android police Monday Wednesday Friday for the podcast around around noon Pacific. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the show. We don't send an email complaining that we talked too much about cars podcast android police dot com. If that's your complaint just at me at Rdr V. V.. Three on twitter please. Chris where can people find you. People can find me hiding and Olga Bush's on twitter at sea and Disco Davies movies. Give thank you very much for joining us once again and We'll be coming at you fried with her show like I said with David. Mo Until then it up be safe. Stay tuned and take everybody.