028: She Believes with Debbie Lindell | The Living Room
Tools for living room to grow a space of grace to become everything. God wants us to be. You're listening to the Living Room. Podcast with Joanna. Weaver episode twenty-eight well the Pastor's wife called fulltime ministry. I love hearing from women who lead well especially women who have that very special relationship with God you know the ones I mean the ones that you can literally sense. This girl walks with. Jesus Will Win I. I met Debbie Lyndale. I knew she was someone special. And in today's episode she shares the journey. God has taken her on both personally as well as in ministry from an insecure twenty year olds who preferred serving in the shadows to a mega church pastors wives to a woman willing to step into a calling for which she felt ill equipped. I know you're GonNa love our conversation because you guys were all call to be minister. All we have to do is be available to God willing to step forward rather than shrink back. Well I am so honored to have my dear dear friend. Debbie Lynn Del with me today. Debbie thanks for sticking with me girl when cat nephew issues recording this episode. Oh my goodness God must want to do something through this next forty five minutes or so or he's got a big plan for our conversation. I love bugs. Sure you know I'm trying to learn how to do that. How to receive those delays in those interruptions as coming from him rather than resenting them all the time and just trusting that he's up to something that I don't know yet. We don't like hiccups. We like things to go smoothly. And don't you think so I? That's always probably been one of my biggest battles is. I think I've always thought that God's will should be easy. How has it been in your life? Well I think sometimes I want God's will to be my will I think the biggest problem for me? Just learning to distrust him you know. The the beauty of walking with him and completely surrendering to him is that we can no he is or deigning and ordering every step as proverbs says the Senate righteous are ordered of him and so we can be confident that when we do face a situation that just as unexpected or a delay or oh man just something. That isn't going quite like we had hoped We can entrust that to him and know that he's GonNa work it out for good yeah So I've I've experienced a lot of delays in my life. We were talking about that off line. Just you know we both have written books and it seems like often when you're trying striving to do something that God's called you to do that whether you know we talked about is it the enemy or is it. God you know using a delay for his purpose. I think it's both I think the enemy hates. When we're striving to do the will of God anytime we set our our heart and mind on doing God's will. The enemy is at work to thwart the plan of God. I mean you can see that throughout scripture and if you've walked with God at all those that are listening you know that to be true. The enemy hates when we're choosing to honor God with our lives and to do his will and so I think it's and and both ends both and and there's a spiritual battle in the unseen world you know and it's so today we you and I both believe that God wants to use this for his glory and so we're excited to see what he's GonNa do exactly. This is our third podcasts platform. We've attempted to reward after losing a whole interview yesterday so girls. You're in for a treat and I think I how how appropriate because we're GONNA be talking about your book. She believes able leaves. And Oh my goodness I love this book. This is the book that actually I I met you and you're just starting to work on it. And what a journey You know just all throughout I love. Just how very honest in open you are and yet constantly constantly pointing us to the one who's bigger than we are the one who's more capable than we are in the one who wants to empower as can you just Can you just share a little bit of your story? That brought you to she believes. Oh my goodness a journey. Honestly where to begin? I I am constantly Growing in my understanding of God's left for me and Grayson his design purpose for for me. How he intentionally created me on purpose for a purpose and walking by faith in that and so the journey continues yes But I was raised in a Christian home I was actually raised in a pastor's home and My Mom and Dad pastored several churches small churches but they love Jesus with all their heart and taught me to love God and to honestly they taught me to live by faith But as well I had to embrace that faith for myself as we all have young and I think she believes it's kind of a just a representation of every girl's journey And every girl have God's desire for every girl to totally and completely understand his love for them and to to live in In a place where they they not only Have memorized GaAs word which I have his word sitting in my lap today. They have not only been taught the truth of God's word but they've completely embrace it for themselves is so that's so big because I know for myself I had the head knowledge. But you get it from my head to my heart and you talk really honestly about even though you felt called to ministry you and your husband John Pastor and incredible church called James River in Missouri. And just the journey you kind of just share parts of the pieces. You felt called to ministry and yet you. You were really intimidated. My goodness yes. and you know that our Our history can affect our Our confidence you know in things that happened in our lives we can focus on what people say about us or our experiences and we can forget that the truth of God. God's word overrides any experience or anything that has been set over us but when we first went into ministry John and I were just twenty years old. We were married when we were nineteen. We were high school sweethearts and then John John was saved when he was sixteen so he didn't have a background of understanding the church world or pastoring where I was raised in in church and in a pastor's home but walk through some some difficult experiences with my parents And so that kind of created insecurity in me with regards to going into ministry and we Had our first interview for our first position when we were twenty years old. We had only been married. I think we'd been married six months and We were interviewing for a youth pastor position and we. The pastor asked us to meet him. That was any doing us. The lead pastor of the Church that we were handed a minister Pardon me the pastor that we were interviewing with for the youth pastor position we met at a restaurant in town and I remember getting ready for that interview I was so so nervous and I think I changed clothes like four or five times. I wanted to dress the part I wanted to look the part and I. I remember thinking if I'm just if I don't say anything if I'm quiet hopeful. He won't realize that I might be a handicap. You know to to John and to what God was calling John to do and and so I went in to that interview. Just like okay. Just keep your mouth. Shut Debbie. It was easy to do because the pastor pretty much focused all of his attention on John in for for the hour long interview. He really never looked at me or he didn't ask me any questions and I was like thrilled with that. I thought this is awesome. So got done with the interview and he said asking John. The questions he said. Chun Oh my goodness. I'm so impressed with you. You you're you're very articulate and I'm just you now. I just see God's hand on you and I think you'd be a great fit for this position that we need filled and said I just gotTa say on a scale of one to ten. I would rate you as a ten year incredible and I was like yes. Oh my goodness how incredible my husband is. And I'm just so proud of him and and Y- Yes. I agree one hundred percent with what you're saying. Well then He. He turned and looked at me. The pastor did for the first time in the interview really focused on me and he said but I've gotTa say if I was GONNA rate your wife he said I on the same scale. I would raider at a four. Oh Wow and I was like man. How does he know? I haven't even said anything and he can already tell that. I am inadequate that I don't really have all that. It will take to be effective in ministry and he just in those few words confirmed what I believed. Wow It'd be true about myself so All that to say. Is You know the enemy wants us to doubt God's truth about who we are he. He will do whatever he can. I two that was that pastors opinion and it came out of whatever he was taught and what had been spoken over him or I don't know his history but he obviously struggled to honor women and to believe In into to encourage right right I think I think a lot of times. Especially in that era. There was that pastor's wife Persona little cookie cutter back saying and you played the piano and you did this. You did that and if you didn't fit in then then maybe it was hindering. Yes it was going to be a head. Threats are you would not be effective in in whatever role that they felt like you should. You should fill all that say. We ended up taking that position. If you can believe it I remember when he when that Pastor said those words. John Patted my knee and Under the table and I knew what he was saying he was saying. Debbie don't don't you don't I don't believe what he's saying is true and we went home that night and prayed about it and felt like God was leading us to the. This man was not a bad person. Yeah Yeah And God we took the position we served under him. It was difficult but this he this pastor loved God yeah he wanted to honor God with his life and God wanted to use him to teach US things That we would take into ministry key taught us things that he didn't that we knew we did want to be if that makes sense. Yeah and and so I'm thankful for those that year and a half two years that we were under his leadership and also God began to use that season to cause me to Evaluate his truth about me Because I had to come to a place where I believe the word of God what anyone would say over me or speak over me or or my past the things that I've experienced that had created insecurity in my spirit. And you you know we can. I knew scripture Joanna. I knew psalms one thirty nine by heart. My parents read truth over us over their children and spoke truth arres but honestly until we believe that truth for ourselves we can have it hanging on the wall. We can have it memorized but until we believe it. It's not gonNA radically affect our thinking. And and so you know she believes shares a lot of that journey And really I did not. I started to understand that I was thinking wrongly about myself Through those first few years of ministry but it took years and years before I fully embrace the truth of God's word for myself and said Okay God I believe you have Perfectly an intentionally created me for the purposes that you are calling me too and that with with you in me I can do all things that you've called me too and And do them effectively through your power. That is were at work in me and once I honestly chose to believe that for myself. That's when I saw God opened doors That I would have never imagined would have opened. I love it's so ministry so one of the things that I I see I see it in my own life to is the things that I've struggled with what I think are liabilities. I think are going to keep me from being effective are actually the places that God uses most and I see that in you. Debbie like you know that girl. You see that girl who's struggling. You know her girl who feels inadequate you see that girl who who just wants to kind of be invisible and you know how to dry out and I was just thinking last night of pre God. Please let your view I. I was thinking first of all for those of you. Who are listening you know. Her story is really beautiful. They went on to to to pastor at different situations planted a church. It didn't really go very well. Not Springfield and then began to fulfil just this as. Tory. Now have over. Twelve thousand people worshiping on a Sunday morning. Multiple Campuses You have a prayer meeting. That has five to six thousand yet. The thing I love about you. Debbie is you are still you are still that girl with heart wide open and you are that girl who. I honestly think I think you the heart behind James River Bash. Because I walk into this Mega Church and I feel the love that and I think far from being a liability girl. You're not just a Tan. You're like you're like nineteen point nine nine amazing gift to the body of Christ. But you look back and you think how you could have left that insecurity. You could let what you thought about you. Define you with. That man confirmed about you. You can just stayed in that role but instead you you said Lord I wanNA think differently What would you say to that woman? Who's going wow I I feel so inadequate I was telling you yesterday that in so many ways though I come from a different. I'm not the shy girl. I'm the too loud grab that intimidation my own. Cash that constantly Assane Joanna you need to tone it down. You are way too much My own fear that That my motives are not pure and I know myself so well that I can actually get paralyzed by myself. Awareness in Ghazvin do not seem thing he's been seeing Joanna. Will you believe what I say? Yeah above what thirteen? How do we get our? How do we get there? Well you know the enemy comes to steal kill in destroy and he is constantly wanting to stop us all from just you know walking in victory in living out the call of God for our life. Whatever that looks for looks like an any girl's life some whatever guys called you to. It looks different then Joanna and me but the enemy hates it he hates to CS flourishing and he wants all of us to be hiding hiding and and To to honestly keep us keep a secluded and feeling ineffective and insecure. I mean that that is his oh he can do that. He has one and over the course of Minnesota the course of my life but if we just look at even just James River when we came to James River John and I were we were I would say. We were broken leaders We were we were. We felt very in inadequate for the task of pastoring. We had pastored for two and a half years pioneer church in Kansas City. That was extremely difficult and Just we we tried so hard. We made nineteen thousand phone calls. We knocked on. I think we knocked on about five thousand doors and we had we had to a two three and four year old during that time When we went we took we started the church and we knew no one in Kansas City area. And I I give that backdrop just so girls listening will understand what we're experiencing now. It supernatural. Yeah but at the same time it we had to choose to have faith even through the difficult seasons and times in our life and in the journey so just because I say man you need to believe God's word and if you believe God's word for yourself and the truth about what he says about you then it's all going to be like. Oh this is sunshine resident. You know we have to keep trusting. Even in the difficult seasons is so We ended up Leaving that her Feeling God calling us away from that Church that we launched in Kansas City which was really difficult because once we said God were done which was about a year and a half in. We only had thirteen people in five of them. Were Lindell's so that we had eight people after a year and a half On a Sunday morning. And so you I mean that's not very many people sitting in a gymnasium of a brand new school so it looked pretty empty. Every week was very difficult once we said. No that's when the church started growing and once we said we're done the church started growing and by the time we left that to come to that church to come to James River. There was a hundred people had that church in God had sent another pastor to take the church which we were. We were so grateful so when we looked if we looked at that season through human eyes we felt like we failed. You know but but then we now looking back at it like God was teaching us reliance on him because I can honestly say when we went into it. We thought if we check all the right boxes if we you know set up the chairs perfectly if we if we we have good worship and whatever and good preaching then people are GonNa come and God was teaching us. He's the one that builds the church and I in a way. We're getting on a side note here but somebody must need to hear this. You know it is God working in and through us but we as well have to learn to keep our hands open. Guide she now. It's it's you working through us as if we rely only on ourselves. Were not going to see the supernatural power. God made manifest in through our lives. So it's and both it's US believing God can use us in his S. trusting completely in his power to flow through a US but getting back to James River when we came to James River. Then we we felt so weak so broken and the Church. Leave there were. There were only eighty people in the church and when they interviewed us for taking the lead pastor of the Church. We were just like. We don't have much to take. Yeah we're we're worn out. Were we feel week? We feel like we failed and it you know. It's such a beautiful contrast that other interview but they were like you know we believe God uses wake people and we believe you are called to lead and we we WANNA we want you to come and we believe you will come. God's going to work through you and worked through your experience of the past to to bring about his will and built his church here and so on that alone. I mean seriously. We didn't feel like we had anything to offer. But we came on a on their encouragement. Yeah so much you know I. I think if we can embrace the story God has for us. I feel that often I know for me. I entered ministry. I was called to be a pastor's wife just thought God was going to do amazing things through us that it was going to be glorious and to be honest we haven't had that using growth but my husband is always just kept reminding. Joe At join. Our job isn't to be successful as to be faith a so true and you know. He's the one that built the church. James River is no better than any other church. Yeah it he has sovereignly. Chosen that here in this particular community. He wanted this. He wanted to reveal his grayson in a different way. You know because number. He loves numbers because in the word of God. He talks about numbers a lot. So numbers are important to him and every person is important to him every single person so numbers matter in that they represent people but he I mean I love how Gods Church churches represent to me. I've you kids. They all have a different personality. And they all represent him in different ways Into every leader out there. That's trying so hard to be faithful. God is using you and you can't evaluate it off of just what you see because I look back at that time in Kansas City. And I'm like God was he. Was that churches now. A active and involved in in doing great things for him there. He used us to lay the foundation in laying. The foundation was a hard art but we came in going to James River going. Okay God will here we are? We are much. We don't have much to give but God we give what we have and we just ask that you would touch it in supernatural blessed and in. He did things we never imagined he could ever do. And he he led me to places. I never imagined I would go which you know you knew that your life too. I win in going. Don't I don't WANNA lead? I don't want have anything to do with leadership I John. I'll do whatever you need to do behind the scenes but don't give me a microphone and don't be in front of people and and so I for those first several years I just I honestly I hid you know and I. I love serving so I. I was enjoying serving. I served wherever I found a need and but I knew deep in my spirit God was calling me to to more But he had to change. Change ME I. I love this part of your story because you really did not want to step into what God was asking you to do. But I've had first hand experience of what God is done through just that willingness to obey. Can you tell Ya that well Yeah I guess I would say I went kicking and screaming For the first WHO Gracious. Probably twelve years We had what we called women's ministries and It it was effective in that the women in the church. Were you know lead and Bible? Study taught to study God's Word and prayer groups and I mean it was beautiful. It was it was very it was very it. Was the girl of the Church meeting together. Which is powerful in important. But we weren't. We weren't seeing it very effective in reaching out beyond the four walls of the church. Does that make sense? Yeah Yeah and and so I. I say this carefully that I was I was somewhat bored with it and I. I did not blend. I didn't love women's ministry. I love IT I. I went because that was what you were supposed to do. If you were a good pastor's wife you were a part of it and you needed to be there and present and you know Joanna during all this these years of ministry where administered an with in that paradigm. I I was God was teaching me To believe that he could use me. You know and so that that's a backdrop for what I'm saying this story I'm telling but anyway my mom led the last six years of the women's ministries before. It took over. She was leading it and she was so effective impresses that she was diagnosed with breast cancer and had to step down. And I I remember being like Oh God what are you GonNa do? You'RE GONNA End John. Coming to me. My husband had saying Debbie. You've got to find somebody fast. The church was about renting about two thousand. So you know there was quite a few women in the church and he said you know you need to have you need to find out who God wants to lead this quick and I was like okay. Yeah I do and so. I just was praying. Oh God you need to find somebody Xiaomi who she is quick and and you know not at all thinking it would be me and actually I would say I put blinders on because it was like. I put a sleep mask on my face because I did not want to see where I didn't want to see what I knew. He was saying. I mean honestly I could sense it in my spirit but I was ignoring it and I was ignoring it really well. Yeah And so I found this girl to that. I felt like Oh. She'll be amazing she she was. She was just incredible. She was an author herself when she was in the church and she loved whims ministries. And so I asked her and she said sure I'll take it and she wrote up a plan for a year and I was like Wow Hallelujah. This is amazing God. You're so good. The day. After she accepted the position her mom died in her sleep in. She called me the next morning. Her mom was incredible lady and she called her name her. The girl's name was Pam. She called me. She said Debbie. I just have to tell you I'm going to have to To to not take the position because my mom passed away in the night and and I'm just letting you know that. And she said I'm so sorry and and We prayed together was beautiful time but I got off the phone and you know. I'm just being honest here. I was like God. What are you doing you know? I'm now what you know. And so I went back to prayer and long story short. I took a day in a hotel room and I was just like Lord. I need you to show me what to do. An eight hours on the bed in this hotel room which Kirsi purpose just to be with God because I needed his hell I needed. His help is a leader. I need help to look differently at my situation. I needed to look at it by faith in in. Not In my own Thinking I needed look at it through. His is eight hours in God radically and I can say radically changed my heart and it was like a light bulb went off in my mind and my thinking and my spirit and he called me and what he was calling me and I was running and once I said yes it was like my whole heart change. It was like I was completely different person. Why could not wait to to tell John? John God's changed me I am the one he's calling. I am the one he's saying. Debbie lead and I will give you the everything you need to to accomplish my well. I went from wanting to run from leading women to being so excited. I could not wait to see what he was gonNA do. Yeah but it took me. It took me being obedient. It took me saying yes it took. It took me intentionally spending time with him. He man for him to change my heart And for me too. It just embraced the truth. What he says about all of us that he has designed us to be enough HERP ASLI created us for what he has called us to do and given us everything we need to accomplish. His will And so that was that was the beginning and I can't say well it's been all amazing. It's been hard sometimes hard days and there's been days when I still feel like. Oh what am I doing it so far beyond me and I'm in from that point on the Church's grown in there's moments where like it's outgrown my ability and then God says now it hasn't outgrown mine I loved that hasn't outgrown mindset. Just keep looking to me. Keep spending time with me and I'll keep providing everything you need I think this is so important. Debbie because we always are looking at at what we're able to do in this situation and we miss out on the miraculous and I just WanNa just camp here a little bit because I feel like there's some girls out there that have just been kind of trying to be invisible to God and God's talk and jammies and it may not be big things. Girls may be little steps of obedience and you're I can't get my head around it and I just would encourage. I think this is an important point. Get alone with Jesus boy. He talked about because we we need to. There have been so many moments pivotal moments. I can go back to that. I had to be face down on the rug. I had to get along with Jesus. I had to find out what he thought and what he wanted because he really is. I need you here. This girl's God specializes in changing our hearts. Yes to that woman out there that struggling in her marriage she doesn't love that man anymore. Get alone with Jesus lead in your heart that woman who who has stepped out in bathe and failed and felt like I am never going to believe or trust guide for anything again. I'm just GONNA to hold on until Jesus comes get alone with. Jesus yes leaded fuel your heart. Let Him heal your heart beautiful. Yes yes I can I can say I. There's no I don't think there's any battle or any difficulty that cannot at least You can see attorney when you take when you take time away just to in Gaza. I think about when the kids were thirty months apart. We had three kids within thirty months. Thirty one and and you know that. Get along with God Statement when you're a young mom little ones at home. You're like how in the World Am. I GonNa do that you know. I think if you're intentional and looking at how you spend your time you can you can carve out five minutes you can carve out ten minutes. We can all do that in in maybe today. Somebody listening right now. You're you're in a very difficult circumstance or you're you're struggling with emotion maybe you're even struggling with like desiring to just end it. All I I have had those moments where the enemy is. Put those thoughts nine and I'm telling you if you go get your Bible. Go in the bathroom. If you have to shut the door in open the scriptures open scripture up and if you have to open it to one thirty nine that the Psalm one thirty nine and remind yourself maybe you know those versus but remind yourself that God made you he or danger days and he has a plan for you and he wants to work even through these difficult days. Yes challenging days. And and you're right Joanna there the presence of God he's in it's it's so amazing what it will do sometimes even even now. There's days in our marriage. John my marriage where it's just like this is so hard. Diablo stays up. There are a few and and you know it you know. Thankfully they're few and far between but there. There are moments where the enemy wants to put his foot in the crack in the door. And just do you know. Get his get us thinking in ways. We shouldn't think you know. Towards our mate towards our marriage stores children towards towards ministry towards towards towards maybe even the position at work that he's called you to whatever it is he. He loves us to have wrong thinking. And and so I'll just get in the car and go for a drive turn worship music on and I'll find a parking lot somewhere that's secluded. There's a there's a little church that is about. Oh two miles from where we live. And I'll drive. I've driven over there a couple times over the years and got my Bible out and put worship music on and just God I need to be in your presence right now. I need you to rewrite my thinking. Pour into me. Your will your thoughts and it's amazing to me how five ten minutes in his presence intentionally turning off my cell phone just focusing on him and leading the Holy Spirit Speak Poor. His grace and love is his truth over. Me Can can change a circumstance. It happens by changing me. It starts with me exactly and I think we're like yeah. I don't have time but I think if we would realize okay. Take the time that you're GONNA be miserable and in turmoil now sat in prayer put gas. Put that impair. Because I just don't think we understand for privilege. We been given to come bold guests to the throne of grace and find help in our time of need. Ichiro it's not about self help it's about ourselves and I think for me like looking beyond what's going on and praying what you were talking about. Lord Change Me Wire My s. Because I get so fixated on everything. That's going wrong that I missed that. God might be stirring up something that he wants to do in me so good and it's not like when you come out of that time with God that the situation around us zapped mysteriously just goes away. Now it's your heart is changed and you have this confidence. That God's GonNa Help You. He's going to give you the words to say your husband or or you know just creative ways of of Influencing situation but here's the deal God wants us to rely on him burst Amien and often like you say we want to go to our our ability the ability within ourselves to right a situation and he's like no. I want you to come to me because I have I have. I have something I want to show you that. I WANNA reveal to you You know there's a verse in Stephania. One Dixit John and I were talking about a couple mornings ago and and That book is very interesting. It's a prophetic. It's a prophet definitely was a prophet God is speaking about his people and he says he was angry with him them. He says they no longer asking for my guidance. Or seeking my blessing God long for his children to look to him I e men and he never fails to respond ever when we looked at him. It'd be it may not happen overnight. But the wonderful thing is is when we commit our way to him like Psalm. Thirty seven says when we literally roll our care over and we're sometimes sometimes I feel like the Lord is like I got my hands on his situation and it's almost like get this picture of my mind of this surgical place you know and all of a sudden what really needs to happen. Is they need to Zap the guy. The Dead Guy. I feel like God's like clear like get your off Joanna. Yeah to resuscitate old something that first of all maybe just needs to die number one or you're trying to breathe life into something that only I can breathe life and my time in my way and if you will get out of my way to and you're GonNa see me an and so for me like being able to commit that to the Lord and then when my flesh wants to pick it back up again to clear clear get my hands off. I this just segues beautifully into your new book. She prays a thirty one day journey to competent conversations. Because I would venture to say that. There's some girls out there. Even girls who have been Christians their whole life that would say I like what you're talking about that I I don't think I have that kind of intimacy with the Lord or or maybe they're even like me and they would say. Yeah I love the Lord and I feel his presence in but I'm not a very good prayer. I had this idea of what a good prayer warrior was and I didn't fit that and so even though I was talking to the Lord all the time I wasn't fitting the mold I thought and so I just love this book because you just bring it down to such a sweet simple practical relationship with the Lord when you think of prayer what are you talking about when when you want to encourage women to have confident conversations with God Well you know I I would say in in leadership one of one of my desires just to see girls have a a close intimate relationship with their their heavenly father. And you know it takes intention -ality and I used I think of it almost like a marriage. You know the the the word of God talks about how we're his bride of Christ and so our relationship with father. That's one of the ways he describes it and so when you look at your relationship. You're you're closeness to guide. You can look at it somewhat like a marriage In it takes intentional Times with your spouse to cultivate a close relationship and that's sacred that's very special in beautiful and and and personal And when it comes to prayer I think so often I would. I would say this about myself as well we can. We can struggle to think that our prayers to be perfect and we think about what that almost like gods of valuating keeping keeping score on how articulate. We are and the words we use and our sentence structure. And if you're an if you're like to write it which both of us do you can kind of analyze you know out of this sound with this sound right and but I think I think that all of us can tend to do that no matter what and and feel like we're failing to conversation with God and and and it is God just loves to hear us. He loves to communicate with US. He loves to be with US and he is not analyzing any. Ah Years just like Oh wow she is wanting to be with me and you know the beauty of our Christ relationship are intimate relationship with him. Is that it's anytime anywhere. Yes and and so you know I I have just so grown in. I just talking to him all the time you know. And and listening for his voice Britain thing for his guidance and and so the more. You're with him the more you're you understand him. The more you just like the marriage right example or it could be a friendship. Y- God's our relationship with God is called a friendship too so you can look at it that way but when when you first get to know you're getting to know a friend you know the conversations you have with them are how you get to know them right in the more you converse with them. The more you understand them. It's the same way with God. And and so you know our our personal times with personal devotional time with him You know devotion towards is just an immense love and intense love for them that you long devotion is his long to be with them and so are devotional time with the with the heaven. Our heavenly father is is so important because it is in that time that he can. We really get to know him. Exactly that feeds all the other time you know Amen. Well I was looking through through this book and I thought you know what I really think. This would be an amazing discipleship tool because you really just talk about the different aspects of prayer and then you just got some practical interactive things that I just thought you know what this is what we need. I think sometimes an oil I love the word of God I value the word of God but if we only have the word of God were settling for a monologue. God is speaking to ask but when we learn out a poor out our heart him it does become that holy conversation. Yeah however I don't know about you but I've not ever heard the audible voice of God and so I used to think that God was at speaking to me. What would you say to that girl is like well? People tell me that God's wants to speak but I don't know how to hear him you know I think the Voice of God is so multifaceted We have to be careful to think. He has to speak in a certain way because I think he can he can. He can speak through you right now to me right Whether that's through which he has still Anna just in our conversation. I'm so encouraged by it too. That's the voice of God right. The Voice of God could be a friend in your life that saying. You know you need to think about this. This is hurting your relationship with God. That's the voice of God You know the Voice of God can be through a a book that is is graced with the word of God in it and Is Truth to us to encourage us in our faith. That's the voice of God and sometimes there is whether it's like an audible voice which I believe God can't speak in an audible voice. 'cause he's got. I don't WanNA limit him but I too like you would say that is very rare in my life. I think there's I can say there's two times in my life where I felt. I heard God speak to me. Was it audible? Was IT in my mind. You know I I don't know but I know it was God right right and you know it was God and there. It's been a long time since I would say that. I had an experience like that so sometimes we can go. Well is he still speaking to me? You know because and yes he is. We don't want to limit how God speaks. You could be in. This has happened to me. I've been in a grocery line ready to check out and buy groceries. Felt in my spirit. I should pay for the girls. The girl in this instance who is purchasing groceries and frienemie actually in the story. That's coming to my mind. I think is in. She believes but there was a girl in front of me who I sensed needed me to pay for her cupcakes. I paid for her cupcakes. Didn't know who she was found out later she attended the church. I didn't know that tended our church and had no money that day. It was her son's birthday and she felt God told her to go in the grocery store by cupcakes. And she didn't know how she was. GonNa pay for them. Wow Okay so did I hear audible voice. That day no was God leading me and speaking to me through his spirit. Yes even though. It's just it's you know. God's Gaza Big Guide and he. He speaks to us through a lot of different ways. He you know. Do you ever look at a sunset and just fill him speaking to your spirit. I'm a big guy. My God I'm GonNa Take Care of you. I made the sunset you know I made this. Or you're standing by the ocean and you see the power God displayed in the waves in you sense the Holy Spirit speak to. I'm big enough anything you're walking through. That's the voice of God. Amen Amen and and so you know. We don't need to make a complicated. Yeah I was just thinking that I was thinking we keep trying to make God fit our little paradise fit in our little God box and what we think and and we do the same thing to ourselves. We're like I've got to be this and I've got to be that and it's not it's not about checking off the boxes comparing yes. Haring are experience with other girls around us. You know your your responsibility is to follow. Jesus your responsibility and calling us to be in his presence and to seek him with all your heart then however he wants to lead you is his responsibility exactly and hence so we can get so wrapped up in a well. God's doing this in her and Gods God's speaking to her this way you know what that's GonNa Hinder you from hearing what God speaking to you so you really careful with. I can fall into that trap you know and I have to. As we talked about earlier I have to write my thinking. Hey God wants to work in Ne- Personally Amen and you know I I just it occurs to me. We're living in a culture even a Christian culture that we think that that phrase God wants to use me mean something big and extraordinary and I look at what God's done through your women's ministry and now you're having designed for life events to in Dover and how many thousands of women Oh my goodness we well Joanna's amazing. We have a record number registered this year. Eight thousand seven hundred something like that already or eight hundred eighty registered so. It's IT for next October. That's for next October. And we're recording in December and were. Yeah it started with three hundred seventy four girls years ago. It's amazing and I would say to every girl out there. Just keep walking leap walking in. What God's called you to you know so often I see girls. They look at this goal for their lives. Like an and I describe it as like. They're climbing a mountain and they're looking. They're looking at the summit and they're like I WANNA be there. That's where God's called me too and it could be that God's called them there I I don't know but the problem is they're not keeping their eyes on the path and and the path is so beautiful if you if you use the analogy of climbing a mountain if you've ever done any hiking you know when you start at the base of the mountain it's very wooded and it's hard to see it's hard to see where God is leading in this with this illustration but but you have to focus on the path because there is beauty in every step there. There's there's responsibility in every step. And if you don't focus on the path you're GONNA YOU'RE GONNA potentially fall off the edge nervously. You'RE GONNA miss out on the view. The gorgeous gorgeous view around the bend. And because your eyes are so fixated on the summit and and so you know when God called me just to use this as an illustration with God called me to lead James River. The women have James River I felt him speak to me that someday autumn which are auditorium says seeds three hundred three thousand four hundred people that someday the auditorium would be filled with women we had never had an event that was more than a few hundred and I was like. How would that ever happen? And I doubted. That could be possible because I'd never seen it happen. But he he said I'm calling you to this and I want you to start stepping out in faith and so that I did that first year. We had no money. I had no team and I started that this conference and and just trusting that God if I would if I would step out in faith he was big enough to do the rest and and so in there again. It doesn't have to do with numbers it has to do with obedience. Enduring wet has got speaking to you. You know it could be a variety of things. But it's it's stepping over your questions and being trusting that if God's leading you to do something he he's going to provide everything you need to accomplish his will So it's it's an incredible story. Huby and I I just I love ministering to two women and I love seeing them grow in His grace and grow in faith and growing confidence in him and that's what she praises about. I you know. Prayer is the baseline for everything. Amen has a believer man. So that's my hope for every girl they would. They would grow in their understanding of WHO? God is and what he can do in through them. I love it Oh my goodness. I could just talk to you forever but I just I just want you to know God. His used you significantly in my life in in some pivotal ways. Al I thank you for not for not staying comfortable for not just saying you know what? I'm just a shadow kinda girl. I'm just the background kind of girl that you were willing to let God call you forth and step out in faith and and you know again. I just want to say to those listening. Please don't get enamored with the huge dream. Yeah because you'll miss his presence along the way. Yeah and I think you can hear in Debbie's heart in her voice just how much she loves. Jesus and isn't that you girls listen you ministry girls. Isn't that what we want to replicate? Yes that's what we want to replicate and I would love to. Have you pray over our girls out there As we close our podcast time together. Well let me say first. Every girl who's listening God has a planet purpose for your life. He wants he wants to use you in whatever setting you're in he wants to use you to bring the atmosphere of faith into your homes. Yes in tier workplaces. He wants you to embrace the truth about who he created you to be so you can represent him to the world around you and it may look different from Joanna and I it. It's a big deal to God. He men every platform of ministry. Whether it's to our families whether it's being a servant in our churches were whether it's in a work environment every platform is important. Every platform has the potential to build the Kingdom and reveal. God's grace to the world so heavenly father right now I pray for every girl listening and maybe a guy out there to guide you every person within Within range of our voices today. God I pray that the words that we have spoken that they would go deep within their spirit guide that maybe for for someone out there that just fill has felt like getting up. Felt like they're not enough felt lake that they can't go on. God I pray right now that you had occurs God that you are with him that your presence would just invade that space right now. Wherever they're at God they would send Hsu God God that you have created them to be enough and you want to provide all that. They need for whatever they're facing today. God I thank you God for every leader out there. God I pray that our conversation would have sparked a just an excitement within them it enthusiasm within them. God for what you WanNa do in and through them God that navy the things that you have places. Maybe you've planted a seed of an idea in their hearts and they're like how could that ever happen? I don't feel like I'm I don't feel like I would. It takes God cut. It's you're working in and through them. That will accomplish. It helped them to look to you. Guide Bhai Faith and then to take the step. Maybe it's just one tiny step by step. Maybe it's it's sharing that dream with someone Godwin ever it is God. I pray that you would help them to do that. Got Him we give you. Glory God give you glory got for all that you are. God we just praise you guys for for your goodness in your grace. It's at work at all our lives. God We thank you for this opportunity and we thank you for what you're GONNA do in Jesus name okay. So what did you think is beautiful heart or what I can tell you from firsthand. Experience deb is the real deal you can learn more about her books and our ministry especially her designed for live conferences. Over at the show notes. Joanna WEAVER BOOKS DOT COM forward slash zero two eight. If you have a friend WHO's fulltime ministry? I hope you'll share this episode. You can do it by clicking on the three dots at the bottom of I tunes or the Upload Simple on spotify in other podcast players and hey if you're in leadership yourself I'd love to invite you to be part of my leadership email list. You'll get a backstage pass to sample sessions of my Bible studies as well as access to the merry hearted leader weapon are in free devotional. I've created just for you. Just go to studies DOT Joanna. Weaver BOOKS DOT COM and sign up there. Well no matter what realm of influence. God is giving you whether it's big or small. God wants to use you right where you are my Brennan. Just draw close to him and let your ministry being overflow of your relationship with guys because you guys. We replicate what we are. And I want to point people to Jesus because that's the only way that any of us will ever learn how to laugh and laugh and lead like Jesus see you next time.