Prelude & Feud on a 'G' Thang: Biggie vs Tupac
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Benjamin Zebina Breaks Down Twenty meeting SARS in the last twenty years We had a blast writing it and I hope you dig switched on pop dot com slash book to check it out all right on to the show. Welcome to switched on pop songwriter. Charlie harding and musicologist nate eight. Sloan growing up as a kid in the nineties. The story of Nineteen Nineties Hip Hop East Coast West Coast battles. The biggie reverse to park this was constantly in the news but honestly I was young. I didn't really know the real story. Understand the context or even the music at at the time and relearning. This history and music is something that I've always wanted to do. The podcast slow-burn tells the untold background on on essential political and cultural stories. And this season they're tackling east coast versus West Coast hip hop nineties. Musical divide that is embedded in the era. And what we want to know. Is what distinguishes these coastal sounds. And what does it mean joining us. From slow-burn season three is host Joel Anderson and producer. Christopher Johnson welcome ravenous. Yeah okay to start us off. Who are the players in? This feud I think for us. The much of the conflict between these two people in these two different regional rap scenes starts in nineteen eighteen ninety four when is shot at a New York recording studio to pack believed that the notorious Biaggi. I'M GONNA call him big from here on out. He believed that biggie. Sean puffy combs and their associates had set up that night because they were at a recording session for biggies group would call the junior mafia. And so it should be noted that there's is no credible evidence that biggie or puffy connected to the shooting but yet popped believe this or said he did and it's not long after that shooting that these real fractures between bad boy records. Which is the label that biggie represented and death row which is labeled the two-pack will come to represent started show and that's particularly after two pack? Names them in publications as a suspect. So that's kind of setting the scene and then to parks in prison not long after after the shooting because he was convicted of sexual abuse while to pockets in prison. biggie releases a song. Kaufman shots from the fleet to Click. The release of that song really complicates things and that's kind of allows this beef to kind of go out of control from there so no one thousand nine hundred four two shots that twenty five years ago. What else do we need to know about what's happening in the nineteen nineties? That will contextualized this. East Coast. West Coast feud and probably more specifically inside of hip hop precisely rap music. I think it's popular among its fans obviously sleep but it hasn't really crossed over to any sustained mainstream success. And so you have these two pretty successful in their own right rap artists to record record and biggie smalls. But they're still not quite there just yet. There are west coast artists especially from Los Angeles. Who have started to pull the attention of hip hop towards the West and especially towards southern California and some might say that there was a little bit of concern about about this amongst New York rap fans who felt like hip hop was theirs and theirs alone? That's where some of the rub or tension a hesitate the college beef but definitely differences in aesthetics and lifestyles. Let us a misunderstandings. I think between two different music scenes. It's not whole coasts hosts and even whole states. It's these different approaches to telling the stories of street life and acting out stories streetlife. That kind of became part of rap culture right not at the level of beef yet something below ground Turkey. Impossible Burger perhaps see described that we've got these coastal postal scenes hip hop of course his birthday in New York and as it moves to the west coast and adapts a new sound one that becomes extremely popular her. And what we want to figure out. What are the differences in those sound? So let's dive right into the music. You mentioned the song who shot Ya by biggie. This is of course part of the feud but also I think is instructive. What's happening for the East Coast? Sound Kim let's describe the sound. What are you all hearing? That makes this an east coast style. It just sounds very dark and foreboding and we'd describe it in the podcast something like here in like film noir Something you would hear walking down a hallway and a mystery movie. It's definitely got what I think. rappers call that boom BAP hiscock that sound to it. You can hear it in the drums and even the stuff that isn't drums literally. There's a lot of just percussion that sort of the tinkling galling. And all of that. That's in there is so like percussive. v- The liberal thin thick gives. Let's say with that classical boom BAP east coast sound. It's kind of these extremes teams which is what makes it so beautiful. You hear this in the production you know. I think a pity is in a production of groups like black moon in the beat. Minors talk the mind. The body politics whatever the flow switch. They they became really known for this very dark. As Joel says Nuwara Sound. It's just dense and rich and even in the lyrics. Like biggie. Says it's hard hard to creep them Brooklyn streets. They could sounds like an image of Brooklyn especially bed stuy at night in the mid ninety you never quite know what's around the corner and that's the same with this. The song is a kind of soundtrack. The music is a sort of soundtrack for that sort of scene. It's not the only sound that was coming off of the East Coast. It's not even the only that was coming from biggie but this very much capture is a particular kind of east coast down for sure. BOOM BAP is a sort of very the open in somewhat vague term for some. It's a whole genre. But in that era it was used specifically to describe the sound of the beat and and it was that boom boom boom bap right that kind of sound. It's a simple but hard hitting back with kick and snare and one of my favorite. The examples of this with boom bap in the title is care S. ones return of the boom bap. That's right across Nova never went up. You know. Take one out noting how little is going going on except for one person on the Mike Spinning and really emphasizing the energy and the hard nature of this music and as he says right this is boom bap. He's never he's never gonNA pop. That's what you WanNa hear in a free style. You know what I'm saying. You Walk into the studio somebody that is gifted lyrically as big as and you wanna be able to hear the MC he clearly you know. The music can't drown out the MC with that kind of music right exactly. And I think it's also important to note the importance of lyrical dexterity. That's happening in this era right. Would someone like biggie where he is a true innovator on how rhymes work going across lines and better rhyme slant rhymes really moving beyond the Aba Aba sort of old school hip hop style to me. Also a part of what makes boom boom BAP is the way the MC hits the beat hits the drum with the lyrics. The boom bap is like a metronome. And you hear the lyrics that both artists are spitting in there pretty much like on the beat. The real hard pizza sounds like it's really moving like a drum it has has this sort of Tocado is very rhythmic. And it's a different sound then. I'm sure we'll get to soon the more sort of g funk. La Sound This feels like the right right time to move to the west coast away from the noir. Ish Boom Bap of east coast hip hop what we what we find musically in the west coast sound at this time. It's hard for me to say that there is a thing called the west coast sound as a hip hop fan from the nineties. AIROLA eighties nineties era. There was so many different kinds of rap groups coming out in the nineties even from California some of the men and women who pave the way who had the earliest success like. NWEA where you are that la sound but the new groups like farside and their recruits also from the bay area who had a different kind of sound. I'm thinking of all the hieroglyphics kids new take a C- alone and freestyle fellowship condemn does He. was he a man computerized diagram I know I am blessed. Fresh healthy forty two short. Yeah Yeah Right. You'll hear puts them go back to floor Tehran and so there are lots of different west coast sounds but there's that g funk sound which I think is what you're talking about. That definitely is a different kind of well. It's what it what what the name suggests it's very funky. It's evocative of a kind of parliament. funke delic sound lots of sort of slapping bay. Send like rolling keys and these sorts of things that that sound very different than that boom bap sound. There's probably no better example of that if you need to get the G funk sound than you're listening to nothing but a g thing by Dr Dre and Snoop Dogg. Snoop doggy dogg emphasis on that. High mogues. ugh style since line squealing the top and oftentimes Cindy funky Bass lines Parliament funke dialing the through line. Here's Dr Dray Right. I mean because we're talking about some of the earliest routes like if we're going back to Nwea then we're talking about the kind of music do deathrow. Did I mean the person at the sooner. That is Dr Dre. In a lot of what we describe that West Coast sound that G funk sound is music Dr Dre perfected over a decade essentially and even snoop. It's interesting sting. Hearing Snoop hit that song at the top that one to three inches above snoop doggy. Dogg and DR is ready to make an entrance so back GonNa have to pull the strap off to cook like he has this very rhythmic flow. He stepping into the beat in that ways like announcing himself itself to hit the drum in the same way. That boom BAP artists. Do I mean his flow is kind of definitive of a certain kind of southern California. Sound but he has shown both in his style and in the songs like respect for a kind of east coast style in east coast flow which is not to say that. That's all east coast heads could here. But he gets a lot of respect for mixing these two sounds. Let's turn this G Funk Lens now to one of the central protagonists in in our east coast. West Coast feud hit him up by to park from Nineteen ninety-six. Would we need to know about the song before we hit play so the thing about hit him up. Is that to parkhead along time to think about this song in this this album while he was in prison because remember as we mentioned earlier here that he thought that Biggie and puffy where co-conspirators into shooting that happened him right before he was sent to prison. So he's imprisoned stewing all over this. He's very mad. It biggie and Puffy and so he releases an album all eyez on me double album has about I think twenty eight songs on it hit them. Up is not one of them. Hit hit them. Up comes out later as a B side and it is pretty much it. It's almost unprecedented in hip hop distracts attracts. Because it's very literal it's very profane and it's just it's it's incendiary essentially and so yeah. I'll be interested to see what you're able to play play. But it's been the first verse from him up. Click you claim. They claim to be bat. Boys between Yeah I think we can take it by the amount of things that we didn't hear the two pockets and not happy with big all right you know even to this day. Hey I'm forty one years old. been a hip hop fan my whole life. I mean I can't think of a more disrespectful. You know song that was directed at another artist in the history hip hop and maybe no vassil lean but ice cube yellow buick GMC. You'll lose your train. Thank but it's not nearly as profane or as literal is to parkway you can literally here to pocket the end of the song last. Minute is just him yelling. You know yelling at biggest drawback the biggest thing. That's just I mean. He devolved into hysterics. Essentially it's just a screed. Yes a screed you a tirade tirade. If things are things are looking good lyrically in terms of The relationship between these two artists. I WANNA I do WANNA we were talking about sort of the sound of to pock and especially sort of like the death row. La Sound going. On I want to zoom in on that and just play the intro of the song and we can hear actually take quite a bit in common what we heard earlier in the race new doctrines. It's very funky Bass Line here. Sort of Moke style base and again look a little bit more in the background. But you have that high whiny lead tone as well now. Something we've heard all over Dr Gray sounds mighty mighty we report in this is the g funk sound through and through for me yeah it's you know it's interesting. I love when someone might feel different or not. I mean the the sample of course is from the song. Don't look any further from Dennis Edwards. who was in the temptation and that Song I think is that from a junior mafia journey? Mafias get money that we were sleeping. Oh interesting okay. Let's get my money remix to. That's not that's not even their original version version of get money but yeah and so we're getting the same chord progression the same style based but slightly different note so it seems like they actually just completely remade the track. So this is digging being on track that features the Torres B. I G actually taking that and using that as the material Yeah no absolutely I mean you know again. I mean from the lyrics to the production to the execution. The only thing that you could really say about that track as it to park just wanted to get across the point that he was mad to that point like like Christopher said. There's not a lot of art to this. It's just it's it's raw anger. It's something that you know even today. We haven't really seen in rap again. We'll just quickly. We all say it actually reminds me of not something from the hip hop tradition but a song by John Lennon written after the Beatles broke up called. How do you sleep which which was a distract against Paul McCartney and it is brutal? I mean and it's not like similar to this. It's not always like very clever like at one point when he just says The sound you make is music to my ears. Ouch and he says he says the only thing you've done was yesterday and and I'm not a bills fan but this might be the way to give me into it. You know a little beef. I didn't realize they were doing it like that. The fact that two pockets sampling. A big track back in his distract in order to just add further insult to injury and the fact that we maybe heard this g funk in y'all were like the the non maybe altogether this pointing to me that there is a tension here. There's this west coast east coast feud but when we start to zero in on the musical the differences between those two styles. It seems like they have more in common than you might think so. We're thinking let's take a short break and when we come back let's dig into into this tension like feud more of a personal feud or is it more of a musical feud is is paid content for sponsor. Get over there Meghan. Hey I'm Megan Kista my sweatpants Angelique Crochet and this is streaming strong straight. Talk brought to you by the DEL. XPS Thirteen two and one let the laptop tailor made for the binge watcher in all of us. That was amazing. It's so interesting. How movie soundtracks like really do change? The dynamic namic of what we're watching everybody attached to different movie music straight up but we can't talk about movie soundtracks without talking about Star Wars. Oh Oh man it soon as you said Star Wars all I can hear is the imperial March right for all of these action films and space operas. Each character has their own kind of tone within the music. We you always Kinda new. Han Solo is coming. You always kind of new in darth was coming right but like the songs with lyrics can actually amplify the movie thereof like I was thinking about Jackie Brown opening with across one hundred Tenth Street. That is the sickest Intro to any movie pretty much ever as one of the greatest songs too but for you. Do you prefer score over lyrics. I could definitely be just emotionally manipulated by a score like whenever I'm going going through an existential crisis which is constantly all. Just listen to the I heard Huckabee soundtrack on a loop. That's that's real. I understand my brand. which is crisis? I need a cinematic soundtrack while you're crushing emails. Listen with smoother streaming and booming sound on the Dell XP XPS thirteen to in one laptop powered by the latest tenth Chin Intel core processors. Find out more at eight hundred buy Dell. Today's show is brought to you by in culture. A new podcast from Microsoft exploring innovation in Popular Culture Richard today artists fashion designers gamers musicians and more who were using textual reimagined entire industries while creating things. We've never seen before season one of Microsoft's in culture podcast is available. Now listen and download on your favorite podcast APP okay. So if this isn't totally necessarily a G funk sound that West Coast what is a quintessential to pock track that would played encapsulate that G funk quality for US whenever I think of like the music that people consider Gangsta Rap West Coast g funk I think think usually for me the building black parliament funke delic but maybe you all might feel differently or Roger Troutman and do you think that it's right that it's like a particular the kinds of parliament Funke delake songs now all of them but but there are some definitely have that. It's very Cynthia Soun- those those keys writing over the Tom. That's not necessarily the sound that you hear Zap and Roger. Listen you know we call that like the West. Co- Co Sound. But I think about EP. MD You gots to chill someone I tell you very much had that so called G funk sound but it's it's APMT all right guys. What I love here is that I tried to set up a false binary of coast west coast and say that we have boom BAP versus g funk and we can't even settle on definitions of these these sounds i? I think what we've discovered. Is that actually. These things claps onto each other a whole lot more than it might seem at first what I want to share some music that I think breaks support this division. Let's look at some of the things that they actually have in common. The first thing I wanted to look at was this idea that g funk and boom bap might actually have common ancestry and we can look at a track like Africa Mombasa's jazzy sensation in here. Both that really funky sort of parliamentary kind of of baseline boom bap kick in just one. I'll the hands so beyond that. We could look at the fact that both artists both to pock and biggie often are actually sampling from similar sources. Of course one of the most sampled artists of all time is James Brown and of course both of them drop them that. So here's trapped by to faulk. Got Me track available the city streets. It'll be Jimmy. And here's the the sample which is the spank by James Brown. Thank you can go to big you. Who is featured on totals? Can't you see also on bad boy. Records the big talker. Here's James Brown's the payback. The which interestingly enough is actually one of the vocal samples on Kendrick Lamar's Amar's Cancun depth a west coast rapper using the sample which had been used by east coast. Rapper but would it goes. It took them so we have both. Maybe some common ancestry in earlier old school hip hop in the sounds we also have Commons route material. The other thing that these artists share in common our producers and easy moby one of the most important producers of this era work work with both Tupac and Biggie and we can hear his sound of the EMU S.. Twelve the quintessential nineties drum sampler onto pox temptations moby made. I love that we actually get a stroud easy moby at the top of the track and we can also hear his production on biggies the machine gun funk so when I when I see that we have a common ancestry in music is drawing on that sort of funk. Sound boom bap happening earlier in the eighties. We have the same sample sources and and they're working with the same producers. I think upsets the narrative of a East Coast West Coast divide and shows that there's actually perhaps things in common that are happening within within the music. Yeah well there was never an aesthetic beef right. There beef wasn't about different a difference in. I don't think my from my understanding. Their beef wasn't at least not primarily about styles It wasn't about my styles better than you know. Tiger style can defeat your dragon style. It wasn't like in fact you know to park From what I know about his music really starts to take on a so-called west coast sound when he joins death row a lot of his music before or that had all different kinds of sounds in a way that's different from like snoop right who kind of had a particular sound for a lot of his his especially earlier music. I was surprised price to learn on your show that his early MC name was even. Mci New York. Yeah I mean he had so many different influences he worked with shock g you know and digital underground which is like another other influence in his music. Now you can tell from my rich of season this is just the so. Yeah I mean we. We tend to think of two pockets of west coast artists. What we're talking about of the eleven months that he was on death row and it's a sliver over of his actual career but it ultimately was the most popular and so that's why we remember it that way but I mean it just shows you the east coast versus West Coast was always very reductive like Christopher said I mean Seattle's on the West Coast? We've been nobody's talking about like the Seattle Influence of West Coast music talking about L. A.. And we're not talking about Baltimore's influence on music. We're talking about New York right. Yeah I think we could grab a track of two soldiers story which you talk about on your show and really hear that boom BAP I. I'll ask a couple of things so if you go back and you watch the the source awards and we talk about this in episode three and you see when snoop gets up with dray to accept its producer of the year right all right and you know they're being they're being booed it at least a part of the crowd is booing them and snoop basically says you know hold up hold up. Aw Thank God no love Dr Dre and Snoop Dogg and the reason he seems to be kind of taken aback. DOC is is what we're talking about now. which is that yes? We know that there's something that's brewing between these two scenes but in snoop's mind I mean you see in his face I think he meant it. Oh really like he was totally flummoxed. Yeah are sound and we love you right for a lot of people. People who divide is almost not only arbitrary kind of ridiculous well which isn't to say that like there was not some legitimate condescension for rabid fans. One important thing to remember that night is that outkast got booed at the same awards. Show nineteen ninety-five sores. Damn would you talk about snoops surprise. Is he like wait a minute. I understand why you guys don't like us. I mean this music music show. Yeah in the sales have proven it. And we've done shows out here and we see that you love us and so what what does he say. So let it be known no-name we'll give east coast. We don't Oh what a part is the privilege. It'd be known in musical evidence for this affinity that you're talking about that. That snoop was as you know so shocked that might come in the form of a big track that really has a g Funk influence and it's actually called going back to Callie I mean it sounds like drake could have produced. That much is App San I think is that more bounce. Yeah it is. You know who did that. Track right easy mobis movie no way distract a quick funny story about it is that this is right around the time that easy Z.. MOBY is falling out with bad boy. Because easy moby was like one of the early batboy producers. He I guess you could have called one of the hitmen puppies hitmen which is in house production team so easy mobile. Got His start that way but then he started working with Pock East worked with some other people. And so then you know things Kinda you know. Faded faded out in that relationship but at any rate he was helping he put together going back to Cali that beat submitted. It said he never heard anything back from puffy. Never heard anything back from big then. The album gets released and he's like going back to Kelly. That's crazy. He didn't even know the name of the song he had no idea what the name of the song was going to be or anything and so he was like Yo like like. I would've never named the song that that was. He felt that that was incendiary. Or whatever. But I've used that word a lot today because there's because that moves going on and it to me it's it's also super interesting that like a lot of this music that we're talking about. That's getting so widely sampled by these two different coasts is music that's made by black artists who were from neither coast like if we're talking about Zap Rides Apple Roger Who are from Ohio? And you know James Brown obviously obviously from the south like this music as getting brought into a beef that's happening between these. Two coast is pulling off of music. That's from I'm neither coast really and at some. That's feeding that sound now. Yes it's being rebuilt in remade by artists from both coasts and inbetween but to me. It's a says something about like again. Just how kind of arbitrary in some ways now. The beef went from arbitrary very very real quickly for people lost lives but in the East Coast West Coast thing in terms of the sound. Just doesn't resonate for me as a rap Fan p from Detroit. You know what I mean. It's kind of like. Yeah well I mean yeah it comes to represent west coast sound with these dudes from Detroit. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah and like that. You know Big POPPA is e brothers Philly they from philly really. Oh the ozzy brothers are pro or at least I record. Label issued brothers are also from Ohio. Ohio my black right. That's all right Mama. It doesn't made me think the Midwest has the biggest claim spunk of got Midwest is holding down right. I don't mean to be reductive if you're in to say that the East Coast and West Coast meeting somewhere nicely in the middle but it that that narrative I really don't WanNa be reductive right. There is a boom bap sound. There is a defunct sound. There are geographic tendencies towards those sounds. But it wasn't as if these were happening in regionally specific ways this popular music. Both Suga An puffy were making music for everybody to buy. They wanted to make money off of these records and they were GonNa make stuff that sells and I think that part of the way in which these sort of hyperbolic narrative of East Coast West Coast Division is evidenced is that the backing track to that feud is actually kind of the same thing and I think that for me that the music is so often drawing. I'm from similar influences that they're actually crossing over between styles. Both artists really shows that there is affinity at some level at least at it an aesthetic level and that the feud really does feel like the headline should have been like big verse to pock. That's real but the east coast I west coast and I don't mean to say as you put it like their offense that had affinities as well but it sets up this binary that feels not does just doesn't hold up when we listen deeply into the music that's absolutely right that it it doesn't hold up and I mean even I mean some people might argue the say the two-pack for US Biggie was a beef was it's not actually a beef. It was very much a one way. Beef the two-pack had would biggie. biggie was very taken aback and did not understand what to pack was mad at him and some people can say that it was just performance out onto pox part because what we learned from that be for from that conflict. Is that beef sales in rap. It's driven a lot of other career. Fifty cent has made an entire career out of beefing with people and so it helped people to see that there was money in that but it also showed people that you. I have to be really careful in like you. Can't you know play with fire too much. But it is lucrative can be profitable to start fights and wrap every now and again so the art of the beef remains alive and well do we still hear G funk in modern hip hop do we still hear boom bap in modern hip hop go sound man. Modern modern I mean the firm no to the extent that I listened to contemporary hip hop. I'm sure it's out there air but I think that it's just sort of morphed in like you know it's much harder to tell the regional influences on music now that like a lot of music sounds the same. It comes from a lot of the same sources going back to what we're talking about in terms of to pock you know using Music that certainly people had known from junior mafia and from biggie to throw shots at Biggie and hit him up and like you know obviously beefs weren't new to hip hop win to pock came around and and came for Biggie. A AH thinking about the beef between chaos one boogie down productions on one side so making the Brooklyn so taking Wall Street and the juice crew Queens bridge cats on the other side this task. It's like you know if if we remember this beef that that Mc Shan makes a song of the basically says that hip hop starts in Queens Bridge which is so fascinating and then of course cares one boogie down. Productions is having none of that coming from the Bronx and in the beginning of that song of the bridges over he samples the bridge And so this is a kind of thing like in hip hop and I think also in black music you hear it in Jazz Jazz. They call it quoting and hip hop call it sampling. But that they're all these sort of extra extra lyrical messages that are sent back and forth to fans into artists between each other and also inside the lyrics but outside of the lyrics to that you hear basically kind of signifying that is invoking all kinds of things just in a sort of a tinkling of Of some keys or a particular porn lick that means so much especially between fans and so this is not this is not a new thing. When does it with hit him up? We started that question with is there a g funk and boom BAP happening and I I did identify a little bit but it feels like it is a bit on the margins and and just do things that that I think are important to note would be certainly Kendrick Lamar right Dr Dre Poggioli and we can hear from good mad city on the song the art of peer pressure a very clear clear G funk reference but it's just really the beginning of the song before he goes into another beep yeah we have G funk in Kendrick but he's gotta be quoting his producers gotta be quoting his entire neighborhood and community and the whole world of hip hop because he is just so dextrous in his knowledge on the boom BAP side. The only thing I mean obviously it's through and through embedded within within hip hop but the style that I hear it most is in this sort of underground I don't know if it's underground but this spotify five playlist Muzak world of Lo fi hip hop. So here's a track call whenever by some trees and it's kind of like I'll just play it madden. You've walked into a piano lounger then someone has taken a care as one beat but just slowed it down in half and it's Kinda drunk drunk boom bap in that in that world of of of Lo fi hip hop music. The players actually beats to relax slash study to has eight hundred thousand subscribers on spotify. There's definitely cultural influence of that music. But it's happening not at the level of top one hundred hip hop but rather sort of background study music. I think that's right. Yeah I mean they WANNA play the club's lounge music. Boom BAP has gone from hard hitting two. Now it's lounge music. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah I mean. I think that they're probably still artists out there who are doing Like that old boom bap Who's Oh Yeh eh think it's cute kit or somebody says Oh Bobo Bat like it is the music for sure? It's the production but it's also the emceeing and especially in a boom bap style uh-huh where you basically have like two or three instruments in one of those is the MC that people when you see people nodding their heads at a boom bap show for Bloomberg performance if they're not into the MC as like an instrument The way that he or she is is really spitting on the Mike is is kind of controlling the crowd like an instrument does so. Yeah like we hear music that says okay this is boom BAP boom bat slow down but without the MC you know what I mean that may be one of the reasons that we hear less of it right because there's less like I don't want to be the kind of person that says that music has changed in that way but they're just not a lot of dudes that spit like that anymore. That's not you like this. Imagine a guy like to live quietly trying to make a living in two thousand nineteen rambling now. You know what I mean like. That would be really difficult difficult because I think people are much more much more emphasis on the actual beat in the music and it being sort of funky and like unique but like to be a really effective effective on boom bap. You've gotta be like a really gifted lyricist and there's just not. I'm not saying that people are not capable. But that's not necessarily. What will you will hear on the the charts anymore right now? Yeah just occurred to me and I can't believe that I didn't think of this like that when I saw like we all well. Many of us did black. Thought's IT's performance at hot ninety seven. Eleven minute spit. That he did last year was you'll see some ice cold some winners you too. I never thought I winked grammy with the roots. I never thought I would be getting on to my old. You told me well you better go on the truth. I am walking affirmation that imagination. They should have to for me it really. There's no shame for me and saying this I kinda got a little teary eyed in the wave if you will talk about going to a classical performance or seeing a beautiful piece of art and they get a little weepy. Like if I'm standing in front of the Mona Lisa and I get weepy. It's okay it it to me captured so much about the perfection of an aesthetic and especially a boom bap aesthetic that and to so for me to know that both see it done on like with pinpoint precision and that it's still alive and well in someone like black thought and in his hands made me feel really good if it really happy but that's a a really good example and some of the other stuff that he does on his new album newish album with ninth wonder is boom bap ish. Black thought is way too technical and and Dine Dine like there's a dynamism to him that is different than the boom bap sound but he he hits it in a certain way. He's very much on the beat. He doesn't go around a live from what I have heard. But he's a good contemporary example. But he's also an Emoji. Yeah I mean he was around long enough to make fun of Biggie. Biggie was long on right on Christopher. Joel this has been such a great discussion about the both real and imagined borders of West Coast and east coast hip hop in the nineties. It's been very you're opening for me to to really delve deeply into this. These sounds and their around their context. So it's like ever GonNa Change how I think about this iconic feud where can people hear more of slow-burn pretty much anywhere. You listen to podcasts. Qatar website you can go to apple you can go to stitcher radio. Yeah wherever you get your where you get your podcast you can hear it. There's an episode week. We have eight episodes the final episode roadway aired December. Eighteenth right. Well this has been fantastic. Thank you so much. Go our pleasure. Thank you for having us on his a lot of fun. This episode of switched on populace produced by Charlie harding. GO CHECK OUT SLOW burn. It is awesome season. Three live now are amazing. Amazing engineer and editor is Brandon. McFarland Meghan Lubin production fellow Bridgette Armstrong producer Nishat Kirwin lists Kelly Nelson executive producers. We're proud members of the VOX media network. Find more of our show wherever you get podcasts. And we'll be back in another another week every Tuesday we come out with a new episode if you want more go to switch on pop dot com hit us up on twitter at switch on pop. That's it you also next week. Thanks for listening. This episode is brought to you by Dell. XPS Thirteen two and one laptop the laptop for the binge watcher and all of us from the infinity edge screen to the booming bass to the unparalleled battery life. The Dow X. P. S. thirteen to one has you covered plas- it looks real good with materials machined aluminum carbon fiber or woven glassfibre and weighing. In at under three pounds the outside is justice fanciest. 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