Psychotically Eclectic Author Brad Schreiber
Hey before we get started want to let you know that. The show is both on instagram. And under UNSTRUCTURED P. Please come by check. Check it out if you like to show say hello and tell me what you think. Thanks my name is Eric and this is unstructured. Or we have dynamic anemic informal conversations with some amazing people. Today we are joined by the author. Brad Schreiber who was self self described as psychotically ECLECTIC. He has written multiple books including revolutions end. Most recently music is power power. He also wrote death in paradise which I think was turned into a TV series. Is that correct. That's right. It was called North Mission road. Look at some the case is in the history of the La coroner fantastic them. It's great to have you on rabbi the way I am not at all insulted by being called psychotically collected because Britain role media and I'm an instructor on the literary consultant and Working in all different media is fascinating to me. Each one has its special challenges and its rewards you Acetate Institute Tourists Reminder Sand with some fun warm people like The Manson family. And I don't tour with the man in the family that I probably wouldn't like the tour that I conduct Eric I work with a company called Esoteric. That is the architecture architectural in La History Tour Company and Richard. Shaving Kim Cooper are amazing. People they're preservationists as well as knowing an incredible amount so I have a tour called Manson land that I've been doing with their company for about four years. And because it's so high high profile you know dealing with the Manson murders and has new information. That's never been published. It's sold out for four years The other tour I do do for them is related to revolutions end That's subtitle by the way on. That book is the Patty Hearst Kidnapping mind control. Aw and the secret. History of Donald to freeze and the S. L. A.. SLA being Symbionese Liberation Army which kidnapped Patty in a nineteen. Seventy FOUR TURNS OUT LONG STORY SHORT DONALD TO FREEZE The black prisoner who became the head had the SLA had drugs used on him at the California medical facility at Vacaville and then a CIA officer her in conjunction with Bill Prison decide to break him out and run him as a double agent. Now you I got confused on. Who is now? I know Coltman Westbrook is kind of figure had versus wholesale. Westbrook was the black. CIA officer who who who led Donald to freeze to believe that he was just going to be a double agent in the bay area. which was the center in seventies of far left activism activism and Ronald Reagan wanted to get the Black Panthers and the antiwar `terrorist locked up You know they considered considered the black panthers the greatest threat in the United States. And of course they were founded in Oakland. So I've done to our radio shows on this if in my responsibility to make coherent in in about thirty more seconds. No Way I'm going to do that is tell you that revolutions revolutions in is about a black man in donald the freeze who never had a chance became a double agent and sadly was wiped out along with five other white followers in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy four in Los Angeles in the largest shootout in. US history three and the white followers never knew was that lurch double agent. I'm sorry something about Waco was yeah. Was that larger than Waco. There were five there were five hundred. LAPD California Highway Patrol and FBI people firing being into a small stucco house in south central Los Angeles on May Seventeen of nineteen seventy four. They fired ten thousand rounds. Owns Eric into that house. And they received fire about one hundred bullets and finally and and this is the one thing that wasn't research search of other people I found out from an La Times report that what the Times reported as tear gas being shot into that. The House on East Fifty Fourth Street really was incendiary devices. Were called myrow technic grenades. There were meant only for outdoor riot-control like flash grenade. Thanks yes and they knew that if they fired in the house it would set it on fire but you had a primarily white police force in a totally black neighborhood on national. TV by the way forgot to mention that on all three networks showing five hundred officers firing into this House House to take out a double agent who they didn't want to live because he would have testified against the FBI the LAPD and so forth and so on a weird thing to hear because that means you're saying all the cops themselves were knowledgeable or Sir no not at all. They're only small group down to freeze had worked for something in the LAPD called criminal conspiracy. Section is a snitch. He it was a snitch. And again referring back to Governor Ronald Reagan and Ever younger was his attorney. German very militant their their attitude was anything we do to undermine the black panthers whether it's extra legal or not is justified because they're a threat so you know local law enforcement well the LAPD was like no other agency in the United States at that time Eric because they had FBI and CIA officers. Here's who would come to Parker Center and liaise with the LAPD about the criminal conspiracy section. And what they were doing because Oakland was what's the center of the Black Panthers and California had more militancy than anywhere else in the US. So it's this wild story. That is very very complex and I knew about it as a young man growing up in the bay area and finally I stumbled onto story by Dick Russell in Argosy argosy published in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy six that put together the final pieces and I went to him and I said why. Haven't you written a book and You said no major publisher's going to touch this Brad. I have all the documents but you know you're not gonNA get a major book deal in New York. I said well I'm obsessed with it so I'll buy your research off you. And he gave me it and you know it was the Rosetta Stone of research about the creation of the SLA was Dick Russell the Pi Dick Russell was and still is a wonderful political writer researcher. Now Roy on environmental mental issues Yeah Yeah but there. It's mind boggling and highly dense But really fascinating and Jeffrey Toobin Book came out the same day as mine. Of course yeah. Of course he didn't follow this because again No major publisher in New York. No matter how much research you have is going to publish a book that criticizes Ronald Reagan The CIA The FBI the LAPD in my defense. I also criticized the far left. And how naive they were But there's a great great book about the C. I. A. M. K. Ultra drug experiments which are part of revolutions in it's called poisoner and chief inspire inspire terrific writer named Stephen Kinzer about Sidney Gottlieb who ran m. k.. Ultra for the CIA for twenty years and a very peculiar accuser guy. So that's kind of fun book and that just came out yeah. I'm starting to get a vibe on some of that. I know you've looked into my back catalogue in. I have some people on who deal with mind. Control and things like that Chase US and I have a book that was written by somebody at China. I think it might have been Cambridge. I can't remember the school why he was very deep into that really early days of Of the mind. Control Back Taylor. I knew about it as I say when I was going to San Francisco State I had the grades and got accepted to Stanford and and UC Berkeley. But I didn't have the money so. SF state was my only choice. But I did a lot of political research while I was in a comedy group. The Bay area called the burlingame Philharmonic Orchestra and It was just something that fascinated me basically started. I did when I was at state and I saw a presentation about the JFK assassination by and. This is kind of weird. An organization based in Cambridge Bridge Mass Moldy Assassination Information Bureau and they laid out a lot of the basic ideas than the forensics that were were proof that it was impossible for one person to kill. JFK So then all the alternative newspapers and KPFA and KPFK the PACIFICA PACIFICA radio stations in California. We're talking about the fact that this donald the freeze character was working for the criminal conspiracy section Shen and what about the drugs that were used on him as a prisoner and I had a big slice of the picture but again until I got Dick Russell's research I didn't realize the full story and you were doing parodies of the phone calls the recordings. SLA in your head or group correct. Yeah the Comedy Theater Group Burlingame Philharmonic Orchestra and we were at KPFA in Berkeley. And we we did. We did a bid called Patty hearst for crafts Philadelphia cream cheese and It it's it's it sounds like patty is on a tape much like the tapes that were being plated. KPFA that communiques from the SLA. And I think the end of the a bit was somebody else off Mike the pigs cheese it with crammed so I figured that the you know ultra hip people in Berkeley quickly would would kinda smile morbidly and say Oh. That's darkly amusing. We actually got calls from people going. Is this another. SLA Communique Nick is the ethylene making fun of Craft Philadelphia cream cheese. What's going on here? Well in fairness you have to admit this. Some of their messaging was kind of confusing using. Oh well you know one of the things I obviously. I'm politically rather far left. So far left and I'm ready to fall off the edge but in revolutions end I say you know you WanNa create an organization that is going to change America in a very militant era. You don't take on military names you also don't Rob Banks You don't kill the I black superintendent of schools in Oakland which which as people were reading revolutions and Difference was ordered to do may thickly. You know how it it is with a snitch. When you're on the outside your controller so you do as I say and if you don't we'll just leap at your snitch and someone will take you out on the outside aside? The freeze basically made a Faustian bargain. That no other black prisoner at Vacaville prison would sign onto because they knew it was a Faustian bargain and that they'd be as good as dead. The only reason that the freeze was the one who agreed is because he was targeted because he'd already been a snitch for the LAPD and they figured this guy's perfect for us and it was the only one to to agree to it. Even though other black prisoners were asked to run the SLA four him. I told you if an insane story and we could spend the whole interview interview talking about it but I'm glad that I wrote it because it stay with me for decades and then finally I figured if I don't write this nobody else else is going to and Dick Russell said you have my blessing and you have my research. Let's it's kind of a dark book you don't walk away feeling good. Yeah it's true. I mean I wrote a humor writing book. So what are you laughing at and You know that's that's my more up a book in the Niners ten that I've written but There's humor believe it or not in revolutions in one thing that I thought was kind of amusing or fascinating living with the attempted rape of Nancy Ling Perry. Well that's Kinda Dr to. Yeah where she. We're some kid. Try didn't know that she was a member of the SLA Rang the doorbell letter safe house. And she basically kicked his ass knocked out of his hand and and scare them away. But Yeah Yeah you. You rang rang the doorbell of the wrong house. Buddy but also the freeze will how can we put this tasteful. He was under under educated. Let us say and he was on drugs. He was a drug dealer while he was in Vacaville. They're giving him women to sleep with and they were given I. Yes yes this is definitely so this is from Dick Russell's research Anyway so quirky story. He is that he would go to other black prisoners. He trusted vox bill and he wouldn't tell them I'm a double agent. And they're breaking the out. He'd say I'm going waiting to break out of here and for my own Revolutionary Group. And then I'm going to have you come with me. Oh really what's it called. And he forgot the name that he was given by Colston Westbrook. So he said called the the the Lebane- Lebanese army got the name wrong. That's right I remember that. Yeah he I guess. He came across sympathetic in some ways. But I I don't know I don't have that much much sympathy for the group personally. Of course not because they were they were violent but it wasn't entrapment and basically freeze the day that he signed onto being LAPD double agent. Basically that was that was the end of his freedoms now back to the altar and all that I did find a book called spiritualism or SPIRITISM BY G H S. Two books are you follow. ESTA Brooks Yeah I'm sorry to tell you that. ESTA Brooks in. My research is one of those guys even middle of mind control. He's like Sidney gottlieb kind of character. He's like the Louis Jolyon west of UCLA who did Mind Control Control Experiments. You know the CIA gave huge amounts of money. The Not only to you know what you would think be. You know typical prisons prisons but also to universities you know to journalists William F. Buckley was on the CIA payroll Eric. So you get a sense of how insidious their influence was back. Then the unabomber. If I recall was part of the experiments show me say. I've heard that as well home so so I guess you get A sense of Reagan and of course Nixon being president and their sense of militarism and paranoia toward what was considered to be a possible revolution. And I don't think we'll ever see it's like again in. US history for literally. Yeah yeah literally I was just GonNa say Eric People like Reagan and younger and Richard. Nixon believed there was going to be a military attempt at overthrowing the US government which I think is absurd. Well they were being. There was a a lot of people who are feeding that stuff too. It's like I couldn't help but think of parallels with Colin Westbrook and how he was sort of running you know donald freeze but then. There's some speculation about Krishna. VENTA being influence on Charles Manson and all of these guys had this running theme of well. Okay I'm it's hard to get my thoughts together but I found it very interesting that you were talking about the worries of I guess you say Black Revolution and they were emulating the situation with the SLA. But Charles Manson was emulating that situation or his family's emulating that situation as well in the opposite one of the things I talk about on the Etro tour a bus tour of Manson land God bless Richard and Kim because they have introduced me to people in the La Sheriff's department and the it once again it's the Black Panthers it turns out that there's an angle by which Manson's since followers especially the quote unquote girls were trading dynamite found in abandoned gold mines in California uh with Black Panthers And in exchange the girls brought back to Manson's group guns and one day the Black Panthers there's greeted Manson's girls with the dynamite and said thank you. Now get the hell Outta here or before we kill you. And that was the end the relationship so the L. L. A. P. D. and the La Sheriff's both could have arrested while they did arrest Charles Manson and his followers initially and then let them out and then the infamous murders happen they could have kept them in jail and basically my research reveals through. You know Richard in Kim helping me that the LAPD and and the sheriff's Department thought that there was going to be an a violent engagement between Charles Manson's followers and the Black Panthers and they left them out. They're hoping for that engagement. So that they could sweep up and arrest any black panthers so so there's a similarity in terms of the theme of we'll do anything to break up the Black Panthers enters Between revolutions and and of course the Manson murders and would it be fair speculation. I've always kind of felt that Charles Manson himself was nowhere near as dynamic or fantastic as as billing. Well if you're talking about as music music Eric I would tend to agree with you. I think it's pretty bland Charles Manson again. I like because I've I started writing in writing feeder when I write a non fiction book I want the protagonist no matter how negative to be three dimensional. Sure and and without apologizing Charles Manson. You've got to remember that. His mother was a prostitute never knew his father he was raped in jail and within the reformatories and he was not a normal guy before he got out of his teams. I agree so one thing he learned was how to manipulate violate young women to to tell them they were beautiful. He learned from Dale Carnegie. He actually worked for a while for scientology. What was wild he were you got cut off? Yeah he was he was a guy who worked for scientology in Hollywood. And we're and we're trying to recruit people and that didn't work out so well my good friend Paul Krassner who we lost. Not Too long ago had done a lot of really great articles about the SLA in about Manson found out that Manson was let go by scientologist because he was a a little creepy but he wanted the reason he studied. Eric is he wanted to learn how to manipulate the the women that would basically become his family and again without going. Too far down the rabbit hole. The Manson land tour talks about the fact that he watching completely in control of the family. Exactly why Tex Watson and Linda Kosabe Ian were running drug deals without his is knowing it Tex Watson introduced Charles Manson to Sharon Tate. We wasn't a random murder so if you take week if you take Quentin Tarantino's amusing movie and you take Tom O'Neill's chaos book which is twenty years of here. All all the people I met and I still don't know what happened. And you set all that aside and say this guy was a lunatic who manipulated people. And he was burning people on drug deals and the people in his family got out of control and and killed people without his authorization nation. You have a better understanding of what Manson was about. And if you look into then Bouli. OC who wrote helter skelter which sold a couple million copies sir. You understand that. He was accused of prosecutorial misconduct. Because he he was trying to use Susan Atkins as a star witness. And the man tonight said you testify against Charleen. You're in big trouble. So all of a sudden she was unreliable liable and Buluwayo say was stuck with Linda Ca Sabin and he said you know. Put your hair up in pigtails and look innocent. Well forget the fact that you were one of the biggest LSD dealers in Boston will forget the fact that you and Tex Watson were burning people in drug deals in Los Angeles Angeles and you will testify that Charles Manson ordered the murders. And if you do that we will give you immunity. And if you don't do that you you will never see the light of day again. This pretty common honestly it's unique to The Manson family. I mean they're always trying to flip somebody sure but in essence they're flipping. Linda Kosabe Ian to lie so so actually Bouli. OC is also Guilty of of Leaking stuff to the press which could have created a mistrial and Charles Manson could've walked and and part of all of this. I guess the best way to wrap this part up part of all this is that they had a legitimate fear the LA DA's office and that fear was if Charles Manson was ripping off people with drugs and Tex Watson and Bobby Beausoleil went crazy in drug burns and killed somebody in a panic. Charles Charles Manson is an accessory and in one thousand nine hundred seventy and accessory to murder could get eighteen months. Can you imagine what the world interest in the Manson murders. What would have happened if the La da even if they got convictions actions against the others? If Charles Manson only got eighteen months they had to lie and say that he ordered the murders nothing. He's a good guy and then it should have walked free but there was no way in hell and again it's ever younger. Are Powell who worked with Ronald Reagan and the SLA Soleil was ever younger. Who basically went to Buoy Osi? Who was two years in the? DA's office went around the DA. who was in charge? WHO said? Hey it's just a bunch of drug burns and and younger realized that Bouli Osi was saying not only. Could it turn our reputation if Manson gets accessory but it will make our reputation in our careers if we say. He's the Spin Golly who hypnotize people to murder rap thing. They're just a bunch of burnout to screwed up in drug burns. And that my friend is the inside nine-story of the Manson murders. Since truthfully nobody would really care if it wasn't for Sharon tate same way nobody really care about the SLA without Patty. Hearst this is this is very true which is a kind of a sad comment because when you when you think about you know what the LAPD in the CIA a were doing. It's terrible it. It's a horrible history and people should know more about this stuff but again people perceive it as radical politics and it doesn't sell and so forth and so on ask you about that a little bit because you you know admittedly elise year I guess Somewhere to the left of Bernie Sanders. We're looking at practical guy. I know that when Elizabeth Warren says I I want Medicare for all that she's making a huge tactical error the politician because to not recognize. That's how powerful the health industry and big Pharma is in. This country is to just be naive. Like they're the things that you and I want in World Eric and then there are things that are possible given the system. You can't boil the ocean now. That's not where I was going where I was going to sit. I I look at you know a lot of stuff. There happened there in. It's obviously from the laugh. Door would be perceived as left. But they're also have been some Bruce Miss Justices or you know real questions about things going to the right and you know a lot of people say that Waco way out of hand and there are there. Instances like that because Waco kind of generated forget the other one ruby rich sorry Ruby Ridge route in college by most as terror waivers and they were hard core right winging borderline Nazis. I I know of that but I'm kind end of wondering if this is not a government. That's anti laughed. Maybe it's just it's a government that's anti anti-government does that make sense it. It's kind of. I'm curious because I've been on Shows we're the host is far right but what they appreciate about. My research is that I'm saying look at what these agencies have done in the name of justice and the law so you it's kind of you all of a sudden there's a middle middle ground shirt now of course if I talked about you know forgiving college debt. They go get off my show. But you know there's this interesting middle ground on of of people who do not trust the government and of course you know if Congress is at sixteen percent and you know. Donald Trump's impeached reached obviously. There's a huge movement in this country. Rejecting trust in government. The question is how do you change the system to make it better. there's so many things that prevent that lobbying You know campaign finance reform. you know citizens united there. There are so many things that enabled this system that a lot of people say. Hey lobbying thing is a form of graft it's a it's a an industry paying someone in order to look at the bills that they wants. Shouldn't it on the floor of Congress. Well that doesn't sound very very democratic to me. But that's the way our country operates so wild well DI radical but then you say okay. How do you change the system? And frankly my opinion is you're not going to get rid of K street in Washington D. C.. Where the lobbyists are what you have to do if you don't like what's going on is to create a huge financial? PAC you see a pack a Political Action Committee for whatever it is that you wanna change because the only way in the system that is controlled by money. He's to have more money money and more influence. And that's the way. I think we change things if you WANNA get automatic weapons off the street or you know change healthcare healthcare whatever. You're not going eliminate the system that we have. It's a system based on money and influence and favors. So how do you convince. It's the senators and representatives to vote for you you go. We're going to give you more money than they give you. It sounds completely insane incorrupt. Uh but it's actually a practical approach to where we are with democracy in two thousand nineteen right and one thing I've noticed is there's only one city in this country that no matter. What during a recession or during the good times said always grows? DC It's booming. They're always growing they're building. There's always something going up there and it's kind of funny because that's one area that produces almost no tangible tangible goods. It's lawyer Heaven there. They they give birth to more lawyers probably than anywhere else on lawyers. There's lobbyists account. It's yeah exactly so moving forward. I think that some would also argue that you can. Dan Influence politics via culture. And that's kind of. The premise of music has power correct. Yes yes the subtitle on that being Popular Songs Social Justice in the wheel to change. I don't know why I came up with the phrase will to change range but it it just resonated because people have such a negative attitude toward and there is a movement of authoritarianism going on in the world. We know that there's a mass migration of peoples based on not only climate change but authoritarian authoritarian and anti immigration policies. And it's not just obviously about the wall in the United States it's everywhere it's A. It's a really he tragic movement and so the will to change means. What are you willing to do to try? And be part of a movement and people. People are so disgusted with politics. That I started thinking people are really moved by music so I decided to do a book that covers covers in the last hundred years every genre of music that's ever had popular quote unquote protest songs. I prefer to call them. Socially socially conscious songs protest song sounds like the whole books about the sixties in. It's not starts with you know Woody Guthrie Joe Hill and Pete Seeger and then into the folk revival Bob Dylan and by says but we've got everything we've got Tom Lehrer and smothers brothers and comedy. We've got hip hop music take with NWEA and grandmaster flash and there's even country music in this book so you know Jeannie. C Riley's Harper Valley. PTA was probably the first socially conscious country song to talk about small-mindedness in in small towns that kind of revere country music and feel that You know they're the salt of the earth and it was a a woman who who had never had a hit Harper Valley. PDA is basically a song about a woman who is being condemned for wearing short skirts. And she goes up in front of the PTA and says oh well how come so and so had to leave town so quickly with with her boss not explaining it. And how come you're always you know nipping gin. How come you walk around naked? And you leave your blinds up so It sold two million copies because the only hit for Jeanie Riley in her career but even in country music mayor's been socially conscious music. Why would actually argue that? Like the Dixie. Chicks are braver than many the artists. You put up because she went against the grain or I'm sorry she. They went against the grain completely the country music air. All right though. You're right though it's Natalie maynes you're talking about. WHO said you know in London? This is ten days before the invasion of Iraq. Air She. She's In Shepherd's Bush in London. She says we want you all know that. We're a shame that the president of the United added states is from Texas. Where the Dixie chicks are from well the country music establishment radio stations the fans? They all turned on them. And in Barbara Coppell's documentary. Shut up and sing. You see when they get a death threat when they're in Dallas. Alice and that's why. I'm saying that they were braver. I mean there's a lot of people who quote protests out. Look Rolling Stone is is not going to trash you for protesting government in any way not like the country music industry if you're going to go against against of traditional style president so that I think there's different levels of bravery and they just wanted to point out that I do think that was actually brave. Yeah and they're actually one of the last two acts that I talk about in music is power or the Dixie chicks and Green Day and Green Day's American. An eighty eight is a really interesting example to come after the Dixie chicks because even though the Dixie chicks were attacked their following album. I'm not ready to make Nice. Actually won a bunch of Grammy's and by the time. Green days touring American idiot and then eventually gonNA musical on Broadway in which some of the characters are decimated by American society including one of them being soldier coming back wounded from Iraq. They benefitted by the passage of time in Iraq so that the lack of weapons of mass destruction. And You Know Oh Colin Powell you know not telling us the truth in front of the UN and you know. Bush saying that the nine eleven attackers connected to Saddam when they're actually from Saudi Arabia which is a client state of the United States. The Green Day by the time they tour for a lot of people who were super critical of Natalie. Maynes just saying you know George W Bush is an idiot All of a sudden they were. You're welcome not only in Europe but in the United States now admittedly. They're kind of hard rock with punk punk. Rock and country intriguing. Music is more traditionally patriotic people. Exactly they tend to be right exactly. And that's why I was saying you know it's like you're you're not going to find many people in the pucker world getting upset if you trash Bush or trump. Or anybody like that. No changing. You know it's fascinating. I mean. Look this is my attitude Eric. When half the people in America don't vote? Anything is possible in terms of political change. If you find a way to motivate the people who have given up on the system apathy is one of the biggest problems uh-huh we have. Yeah but something about apathy but You know what's the point ain't exactly well I look locally. That's part of things funny. Yeah well one of the people. I work with who was very politically active and gets his own chapter and music powers Frank Zappa. He was trying to create a late night. Like show Called night school and I was going to be as head writer. He was fascinating he he grew up. You know the chapter on him. I talk about how he grew up on the grounds of the edgewood Arsenal in Maryland which had huge tanks of mustard gas like a mile. Away from their house and and ZAPPA's the father actually had skinned tiff that had been done with chemicals because he got paid extra if he agreed to be a Guinea pig. And had these you know skin tests. That's with chemicals. Done so and Zappa himself had asthma as a child. So by the time they get to California you can imagine the the shaping of the psyche of this guy who saw this horrible stuff that the government was doing that was directly affecting his family. He was kind kind of ones though himself right. He didn't do drugs. I mean is bizarre and wonderful and strange and scatalogical as his music was he didn't do drugs He he told his band members. You know we're GONNA Rehearse the hell out of this stuff. 'cause his charts were incredibly complex flex unusual time signatures and you know just phenomenal music and agreed variation you know he wrote classical music as well eat. Eat the Sin Clavier Fin Clavier. Some people say but I call it the same clavier which at the time you could load in any tone and you could play it on. The keyboard for the sound of breaking glass could be processed into the clavier and you could play breaking glass On the keyboard In any event he was kind of a remarkable guy to work with and you know show up at his house where writing session and he had fee span and C. Span two on and he'd be listening to the debate of you know the Congress and he it'd be Briley you. That guy is full of crap. I that guy just took money from selling so he was so knowledgeable about the corruption that he was obsessed with it. Ah amused by it. And of course he's a great hero because the Parents Music Resource Center which was trying to censor rock music lyrics with with timber them covers Tipper Gore right. Al Gore was was on that committee and tipper was part of PM. Morrissey so James Baker's wife Secretary of State James Baker that Zappa took tens of thousands of dollars in one thousand nine hundred eighty six dollars out of his own pocket to fight you know what the PM Marcy was trying to do and partly through. His efforts failed so he was rather patriotic. He put his money where his mouth was about politics. Also Kinda came across from what little I know touch cynical put touch. He was very cynical but he wasn't so cynical that he dropped out of trying to change the system. This this was is a guy who's more libertarian. than he was democratic he wanted he wanted the country to keep its hands off of you know his pocket book which is a very Lubar -tarian value and don't forget I mean he was a combat. A composer conductor a musician and engineer producer looser and a distributor of his own music. And then he went off into when he did video he also funded that himself. That's typical Libertarian Shall we say combination intern. Because somebody who is so self reliant and smart will often skew libertarian. Because they're in the motive. Leave me alone you know. Well a lot of musicians have been ripped off historically because they didn't pay attention to the contracts they were signing and that was I'm in charge and I will do all the necessary footwork in order to look over contracts because I want to be the boss. I'm wondering what he would think of spotify and things like that now he would hate it by the way John McLaughlin to wonderful electric guitarist who was using the mob each new orchestra and I got to interview him for music power talking about Jimi Hendrix and mcglaughlin told me that that's he knows who had a million hits on spotify and get pathetic royalty checks. Oh yes they are not being compensated. -tated fairly so in essence. Unless you're one of the very few who break big and you get a lot out of television promotion. You can still be a band that gets a lot of renown and a lot of hits and a lot of sales and you. You can barely make a living. And that's a very sad change in the music industry and and mcglaughlin also told me another thing which I agree with with and makes me a little sad. When he left Miles Davis and he started working with his own band the Mojave Snow Orchestra? They used to pair them. mm up with country rock bands and hard rock and folk rock and in a way they would team up people it with with other people that weren't in their genre and people's attitude and going to live music was oh this is going to be kind of interesting. Let's see who's supporting John McLaughlin and sometimes it worked and sometimes people said I don't care I just WanNa see John McLaughlin but you won't see that anymore anymore. You won't see mixing genres in live. Music acts in the US anymore. That's too bad some of that was created by I don't know if you've seen I think it's called corporate radio but in the late nineties. How all of the radio stations you know? Change the laws up and they consolidate its. He had clear channel and groups like that to wind up owning like every radio station. The same town will look. Jazz is music in the. US is always going to be very select and it's always going to be more popular in Europe that's just about tastes. What clear channel did was it? Also eliminated this jockeys influencing the playlist because all of a sudden it was corporate and all of a sudden. The corporation Shen owned more formerly independent station. It's the same artists right around the early eighties are still there. It's time you know you. You know you're talking to a Guy Eric who's cranky. Not a hippie. I I kinda missed the whole hippie thing. I was too young for that. But but the ethos of experimentation and open-mindedness is very important to me as a creative person. So whether I'm writing or I'm working as literary consultant and finding out what the client wants to do and encouraging them no matter whether it's you know something that's very specialized and we'll have a big audience. If the client wants to do it. I want to help them get there and I grew up on radio in the bay. The area in San Francisco so we're talking about Cam. PX KFI IN THE FIRST TWO FREE-FORM FM stations in the country. And those guys would walk into the studio Eric and go okay. Well you know I just heard about this band. You know the pen tangle and they kind of are medieval evil England folk music but then we're going to follow that up with Jimi Hendrix and then it will be Odeta and then buffy Sainte Marie and they would play such a unique combination of music that you could be exposed to stuff you would never hear otherwise and that's not really possible anymore and it makes me really cranky but at the same time I hate to say the independent artists are out there Youtube has been a channel for some artists who never would have gotten discovered come out and by taking a hit us you know the money out of out of it now. It's really kind of. They have have to really believe and really go at it because they're not gonNa do it for the bucks we'll let me put it this way. I think that this is the best time ever in history to be a fan of music because spotify and Youtube and all the different methods of dispersing music. It's fantastic you know. Oh you don't just listen to your. Fm Am radio anymore but the problem goes back to John. McLaughlin talking about spotify. It's harder than ever to make a living as a musician. Same thing is true in books. You know there's been a retraction and publishing it. Sounds like we're going around and around. It's it's it's the corporate talkradio you know. It's five or six companies owning all the major publishers. If you said to me Brad you can publish your own book right now. And and put it on kindle. I'd go great. Do you think you're gonNA make much money. As as getting a book published the by a Major New York publisher probably not unless you're yelled unity and left. Money is what I'm saying right. It's a weird. Yeah it's it's a crazy Z.. Balance I was GONNA say unless you're James and she managed to pull one out. Yeah yeah or you know. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions. E Book Publishing Eric is Actually a very great place for Genre Publishing You know dark gothic stuff. Very sexualize D- novel Romance novels especially those. Because I feel like those are the novels. People wouldn't read on the train because the cover would be up but how nobody Kazuya. That's right that nobody can see that salacious artwork on the cover. Those are also driven by incredible fandom. So and that's that's part of the effort for bands and authors who aren't with the nature label or publisher. Is You gotta find a way to find your audience and it takes a lot of work. It's really a fulltime job. So you need the money to hire you. Know Somebody who's great with with publicists. You know who are really connected or someone who can manage your your social media network and and that's something you have to do every single day so when I work with an author who says well. I want to write this book Allen Self Publish it I said well I'll help you get it as good as you can with my notes which you know that it's GonNa take a lot of work Oh No I don't WanNa do that. I only want to write the book. All right. Well then hire someone who's great great with social media you know. I want them to know what they're up against. Well can we discuss efforts saying because I think it's important there's a lot of creators who listen this is a podcast And it's a similar principle. What I believe is it takes a good three years or more to actually take hold and I'm speaking of especially from like a podcast area but books probably? Aren't that different either. Take some time will. I'm sorry to say again if we're talking about the model model of the big five or six in New York publishing you have a very short window much like if you're making a studio movie in Hollywood it you'll be in stores. Only as long as the book is selling well now. This is of course aside from Amazon which drives online sale. So if you write a book and nobody's heard of you and somehow it's a breakout success. They'll keep it in the stores as long as it selling. Don't forget the volume of books. Being in published traditionally means that. If it doesn't do well you got two months three months. You know now you can still be a success. If you you have efforts to use social media to drive people to Amazon Barnes and noble and all the other online publishers are fraction. Action of what Amazon is Amazon's the big dog. Yes eighty twenty rule In first mover advantage. But yes. Yeah so you can still. You could still fail in the stores and still have a financial in creative success If you drive online sales but you've gotta find your audience audience and in its fraction. Aided you know well audiobooks also have really taken off. Yeah I noted when we talked before before we started recording. That you like listening audio you listen to the audio revolutions end direct and that was incredibly fun but I learned a number number of things about the audio book industry. I didn't know and one is. They go really fast. You're recording being A. You know what was it is eight or nine hours revolutions. And I went into studio here in Los Angeles. That's part of you've The the Producers House he has a home studio. And you're doing six hours of talking today and I'm like can I have a break here. Yeah you can have fifteen minutes to have some hot tea and then we're back in those work we want. We want you to finish in four days brutal and could God God you know I'll be. I'll be lucky for my voice. Start cracking at the end of this interview but it was also incredibly empowering and and I know that it's a different experience here. Someone read a book to You than it is to to read it yourself. And some people have an inclination to e books and some Mike Physical and so Mike Audio. What's timing thing? It's the same reason. PODCAST SIR are very popular to you. Could do two things at once. I can be reading a book while mowing the lawn while doing dishes. We'll drive into work. that that allows me to time into the day. You know what's really ironic ironic about it though. Eric is that radio. Drama is not successful still as a medium in this country and this is the Golden Age podcasting. I'm looking developing a podcast by the way For Death in paradise my book about the La Karner Nice. That'll it'll go. Well Yeah and you know true. Crime Kinda drives podcasting. so that's kind of a natural fit but I love radio drama and you would think would so many people listening to podcasts. That they would be exploring that avenue as well. So it's out there Laura I believe is audio drama Lot audio drama. It's coming up I. I hope so because it's got big programming from from radio stations. Oh no no no no. It's independence but what's happening happening is. It's big enough that like podcast movement. Which is the largest conference has a track? Just radio drama Yeah I was lucky enough to A gap the science fiction work two of my favorite writers Ray Bradbury who I knew before he died. Really wow I I did a short story. It's called the one who waits about a well on Mars than habits the spirit of all the dead Martians. And then when an American American NASA crew land on the planet the Voice of the well takes over each of them psychically. Until they're all doc dead and they join with the will as one very spooky and and then the other is probably my favorite science fiction writer Philip K Dick Dick. He had a short story that I did for NPR's well called Fails pitch and this was you know. Usually Asli Science. Fiction isn't very funny. They're usually very dark or it's driven by hardware and violence but fails pitch is a future future where you walk down the street in your town and there are robots better constantly going. Hello Eric Hundley I would like to offer you my services and they try and sell you on stopping and they drive you crazy. And you'd Alenia loan in everywhere you go are fails robots and if one gets in your house they don't have the lead. Have you been open with that. Have you been on facebook lately. It's the same thing. Yeah and so. It's the story. One Guy who hates what side societies become in a sales robot gets into his house and won't leave until he finds the contract that have the sales robot fix everything that's life life and eventually he kind of loses it goes. I'M GONNA take my commuter rocket. Go to that vacation planet and get away from all this. So that's sales pitch and Philip. Philip K Dick was really I think maybe the greatest science fiction writer because the variety of concepts humor humor versus dramatic He explored Mind control he explored the identity of what it is to be human. You know he eh. He was just beyond most writers. What I think is funny? I kind of consider Philip K Dick to be like the velvet underground of of science fiction. You know the old saw the velvet underground not meet people bought their albums but everyone who did started a band Yeah Not many people read Philip K Dick but everyone who did was the SCIFI writer. Yeah but they do now. And what's really tragic about it. Is You know the the van Gawk principle you know. Yeah now you're now you're painting self or you know eighty million dollars but during your lifetime. You are this poor charting that you know well. Philip K Dick was living in an apartment in Fullerton in Orange County. I I been to it. It's no great shakes Powell and once he died bladerunner bladerunner comes out. And now you have to pay plenty to get the rights to even a short story. I don't think that radio series I I wrote sales pitch for could could actually be done today because it would cost too much for the rights it was produced and aired on NPR You know when you could actually afford to pay for the rights. Now you've got to be you know deep-pocketed and of course there are very many film and and Television projects based on his work. But all of it has come after Porterfield left us so I feel bad about that. Wow now to well for today. We're up to wrap it up because we're going to run. We could go on for four hours and and unfortunately not Joe Rogan. Can't and I I'm going to have to take a lot more lozenges if I do that. Exactly so To wrap things up bad curiosity about the guy who wrote a blurb on your book t Jefferson Parker. Wonderful Jeff Parker and I. We're on a panel when death in paradise my book the La Karner came out and we became good friends. I wrote an interview with him up up for the writer magazine and then when I was doing revolutions in I sent it to him and he loved it. He he He started out in journalism as a lot of very successful. Mystery and suspense writers. Do Conley I think's another one Prankul Conway is also another. That's right so so he knows how to tell a really well pay story but there are elements not only of drug cartels and sheriff's deputies. He gets into you know demonic possession. He gets he has three poetic sense. And the one thing I can tell you Eric when I interviewed him is He doesn't read a lot of true crime or suspense fiction. He reads novelists and I think that's pretty interesting that he understands that the dimensionality of characters is something you'd see more in literary fiction and his training as a journalist list teaches him how to really pay a great novel so that you're turning the pages and the blending those two styles I think is is something that really makes him well three time Edgar Award. Winning is the only ones. Yeah yeah very low key guy. I can't believe how ego lists. He is 'cause I've met a lot of Showbiz people who I admire. But you know you kind of want to slap them with fish sometimes because they're just arrogant and Jeff Parker if you just bumped into him somewhere you'd say oh you're kind of a surfer. You have probably a surfboard company that you own on in in Huntington Beach No. He's one of the great you know. Crime novelist of all time. Very cool guy. That's awesome and what is coming up next for Brad Schreiber. Well I'm working on a memoir. That takes place when I was seventeen to twenty two years old and a lot. Lot of crazy stuff happened Also I have a partner and we're taking death in paradise and developing it for both a podcast cast and for television cool and and I love doing. I'm GonNa continue doing the tours for. So Turek there might be a Manson book in there somewhere because the research that I've found from France and land like stuff I've found for the LA and revolutions in still it has been published so again maybe it's up to me. Sit Down and do the damn thing. It'll sell Manson cells there. There you go. And I recognize ignites that too radical politics in the seventies probably doesn't sell as well as drugs in Hollywood and all all the madness connected to the Manson story. We'll fantastic now. People can follow you at Brash. CYBER DOT com. Yeah Yeah I used to working. KCET as a writer producer. And I pick up. The phone was rushed. I go wherever wherever you have ended up from when Brash cyber fiber so that's my website. I'm I'm at Brad Schreiber on twitter. I Have Archives of my writing if you WANNA go to huffing and poster Mr Medium. I do journalism there. But mostly it's Through my website that I connect with people and have samples of my work can and loved hearing from people. You know I love that people come back into your life sometimes. Six seven years after you worked with them shifting principle fantastic and a breath. Thank you so much for coming on. I really enjoyed it Eric. And thank you for the six to ten hours. You have to spend learning about me no worries I enjoyed it me too. Thanks for listening. And if you like what you heard please consider subscribing for free and I mean for free it is always free. There's no billing anything else you can subscribe in your player of choice which is probably right in your hands or you can good unstructured pod dot com and there are plenty of links there. Thank you so much much and in the spirit of sharing. Here's a couple more shows. You may want checkout. Am Studio Steve Veronica and we we have a podcast all about about podcasting we cover everything related to the craft. How to start a podcast improve the podcast? How to promote PODCASTS and how to reach a bigger audience so come come check out our podcast? pod Sound School. We're on all of the podcast players or on our website. POT SOUNDS COOL DOT com. We are dedicated to provide our pot skis. With up to date EC. 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