My name is Lauren. I'm thirty three. I didn't want my identity to be the smoking mom my first experience with jewel. I do remember being like distance good. It's it's it's like a cigarette. But not I don't miss smoking. At all. Like, I can officially say it grosses me out jewel is the tobacco alternative that delivers nicotine satisfaction without cigarette. Asher lingering odor. Make the switch and J U L dot com slash sports. Warning. This product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical. Best. I n last the podcast. And if you are listening to us right now, you may hear in recognize your vendors theme music coming in sad day yesterday. We got the announcement. The marvel comics creator and founder Stanley died at the age of ninety five tough one. Obviously, it's really interesting to me is someone who didn't grow up a comic book fan in the way, a lot of purist did, but the way that the marvel comic book movie universe, certainly introduced that. And made that I think sort of culture, and the fans of it a lot more comfortable out in the open, it became something that because of Stanley and what he meant to that franchise and all the characters he created mental out to a lot of people. And so watching the outpouring and the reaction yesterday was it was it was honestly, a lot of fun, and it's a sad day. But it's a full life ninety five years old and the things he did in that time period, certainly exemplary. So we'll we'll get to talk about a lot of sports today. But I mean, how if you haven't been around or. Exposed to the marvel franchise in some way, shape or form. I don't know where you've been living, but ain't been on earth for quite a while. So certainly recipes to Stanley guy who gave a lot of us so much affected a ton of people's lives are very people few people get to do that on that kind of scale. It's a borderline religious scale the way you get to touch in effect the lives of people in a meaningful way. So great stuff there. And we certainly think of the family and the people who knew him the best in this time in the immediacy of what went on Stanley again lost and gone at the age of ninety five here. No, easy transition from that, obviously. But we get to talk about sports around here. It's first and last Michael junior on ESPN radio and the ESPN app and last night last night. I learned that being a New York area sports fan and being a New York area. Sports team is a lot like trying to outrun a bear. That statement that we always hear when you're running away from a bear in a group of. People. You don't got to be the fastest one. You just can't be the slowest one. And right now that feels like the bar to clear for New York area football teams as we watched the Buffalo Bills cut Nathan Peterman in exchange for Matt Barkley who just went out and gave you a performance the jets who just got whooped by that MAC Barkley squad and seem to be getting it from every angle we'll hear from their head coach Todd Bowles in just a little bit who is on ESPN ninety eight point seven New York yesterday. And then you've got the giants last night. Who were definitely not the slowest ones out running the bear. The giants. Get a win on Monday night football. Look at that. The giants get a win on Monday night football twenty-seven Twenty-three including a late game game winning drive by ally. Manning that brings up conflicting feelings in my mind is it worth the good that it feels watching ally. Manning get to succeed after so much has been said about him and against him at this point in his career about the future with this team. How it was a mistake to gamble on them. Does that outweigh the bad of knowing that every giants win at this point is really counterproductive to the future. Good of this team. Let's hear from Eli manning. We talk to our own Lisa Saulters after the game last night on his response to critics that have been coming out in droves. I'm happy to be playing football this. This is what I love to do. I got a great teammates have had great support and we came out one of football game. And that's what I told him. I said we've worked too hard not to feel the joys of winning a football game. And having a great locker room. We'll have a fun plane ride home and hopefully keep this feeling going first. And last here on ESPN radio presented by progressive insurance this year. We celebrate six years and over six hundred cars given to veterans giving thanks by providing independence for those who protect it. Learn more keys to progress dot com. Eli manning and spent years being a veteran quarterback in the NFL crafting very carefully worded answers by that. But for him in the guys in this locker room, this has to feel great for that group of people who has heard comments about their effort overall, the coaching staff and Pat Shurmur if he's the right guy for the job UI manning the face of that franchise for the better part of the last decade now being questioned not only about his future with the team. But what he can still offer you now and last night, we got a glimpse of that. Now, it wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination nineteen of thirty one for one hundred and eighty eight yards but three touchdowns for Eli manning last night, including a pair of Odell Beckham junior and that had been the conversation going into the game. The giants managed to rack up a lot of yards and just not a lot of points at this point and manage to change that and do it in a timely fashion, but sitting there 'cause I come in this morning and Allie who produces the show is a giants fan. I'm a fan of sport. And watching that ending in a game. Where I can't believe I watched the entire game between the Niners and the giants band is that say a lot more about me than it does about anyone on that field. But I watched the end of that game. And I watched that final drive that was littered with penalties. And really a lackluster game winning drive of sorts. But it still felt good knowing everything that we've been saying about he lied to look and say, all right. You know, what that oh line actually held up a little bit and protection last night. And we got to see Eli go down there and get them a win again in a way that mattered. And then I remembered it's against the Nick Mullins lead forty Niners that are all of two and eight right now. And I thought man. We're the slowest person were, you know, not the slowest person out running the bear at this point. And then I thought about all right? What does this mean for this team going forward? Because right now maxing out this team's potential, which we can hear Oto Beckham junior giants wide receiver talked about with the crew after Steve Young Suzy kolber and Louis Riddick about getting the most out of this team's potential nights. Like tonight. Tential of the giants. You see what you could have been or maybe can be in the near future. What is holding you guys back when I watch this guy should be great is kind of all those little things. Like starting to drive inside the ten three of your possessions. It's tough to go ninety nine yards or anybody in the National Football League. And honestly, we just we just put it together than I you say the near future meaning like the next seven game. Yeah. Let's gotta win seven more and whatever happens happens. That's all we can do only focus. We have this game one first and last Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. Now, this is where it becomes interesting. The giants are two in seven right now for all intents and purposes, we look at that on the outside and understand the reality which is your chances of making the playoffs after starting to and seven even in this year's NFC, east seemed to be pretty bleak. Games coming up the buccaneers at Philadelphia home against the bears at Washington titans. Colts Cowboys to end the season while it sounds like there are some winnable games on that schedule. It's not what we count on at this point the overwhelming amount of us who are outside of this locker room and have the ability to look at the season. It's all right. You've got a law season. Let's start jockeying for draft position. And looking at that. I was struck this morning. I'm looking at ESPN, stats and info. And I see right now the chances for the number one draft pick in two thousand and nineteen this coming spring over fifty percent chance that it belongs to the Oakland Raiders. And then in order of percent chance it's the raiders followed by the cardinals followed by the Niners followed by the jets fall by the giants with only two point eight percent chance at that number one pick. And I thought man. Is good as last night probably felt in the race that you are probably more concerned with if you were a giants fan at this point. You took a step back. Eight eight eight seven nine three seven seven six. What's worth more to you at this point? Because I feel like most fans when the season goes south to this extent. There's the fine line between wanting to have pride in the team that you watch on Sunday and understanding especially as we do. Now, we talk about the raiders openly tanking that. This feels counterproductive to the cause. And that while it's good to watch. When you take a step back. Even if it's not a quarterback, even if you think, you know, what the giants at this point really needed to save it all up and go for to a tongue of Loa two seasons. When they have the opportunity having that top draft capital is still more valuable than what you would get. Ending up as a middling near five hundred team. Even if things go unbelievably well towards the end of the season. First and last podcast giants. Get a win. A Monday night football last night. It is a low bar to clear right now to be the best thing going in Newark area sports. This is interesting to me tweet in the one eight hundred flowers dot com Twitter feed from John M Harris ninety who tweets in. Why is no one talking about Eric Dungy? Syracuse quarterback, I'm assuming he means both as an NFL prospect, and maybe just in general, I'm wondering has gotten so bad in New York that this weekend. Syracuse orange the probably gonna move up the rankings a little bit. But they're hosting Notre Dame at Yankee Stadium washer say Notre Dame's hosting that. We'll be the home team. But Notre Dame and Syracuse gonna play in Yankee Stadium in New York and a game with tremendous meaning in the college football playoff landscape next weekend. I'm wondering has gotten so bad for New York sports in New York football this year that people in New York might actually rep Syracuse for this game. Or if you're going to do the right thing. I mean there are ton of Notre Dame fans in New York. I feel like we're gonna grossly outpaces Syracuse fans, but that's just me. And that's because you've got the backdrop of things going on. We mentioned last night. There's this cognitive dissonance where yes, you're happy for Eli manning. But you understand we're at the point in the year. Now, we're only losing really benefits you Pat dapper tweets in and the one eight hundred flowers dot com Twitter feed, the New York Giants to come to Jesus and realize that finishing at around five hundred in the NFL. Does you little good? If you're not good enough to win a chip be bad enough to get a difference maker in the draft and build towards said ship. Trust me, I'm a dolphin fan. Excelsior. That's an interest. And so it becomes because we hear this all the time in the NBA when teams tank it's not the players will yen. That's the problem. We saw last night as you heard Oto Beckham junior after the here's auto Beckham junior after the game talking with Suzy kolber Steve Young and Louis Riddick nights. Like tonight C tential of the giants. You see what you could have been or maybe can be in the near future. What is holding you guys back when I watch this guy should be great is kind of all those little things like starting to drive inside a ten three of your possessions. It's tough to go ninety nine yards or anybody in the National Football League. And honestly, we we just put it together. And you say the near future meaning like the next seven game. Yeah. Let's you gotta win seven more and whatever happens happens. That's all we can do only focus. We have this game one first and last Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app now, I don't sit here and pretend that the giants offense of line issues are behind them just because they managed to buy a little bit of time against. The San Francisco defense that has gotten after the passer, well some, but it's not exactly the eighty five bears and authencity the talents always been there with oh down with saquon. But outside of that, you know, we got the game winning touchdown caught by sterling shepherd the productions been intermittent for a lot of reasons than defensively you were still giving up yards to Nick Mullins last night. So I don't act like this is a team. That's got a lot of wins in the tank, but at the same time you've got a veteran quarterback, and you've got enough pieces to where I would worry me that this team might win more games than it should down the stretch. This doesn't seem like the kind of franchise. That's got it in it to actively tank. Get rid of people that would effort in that. So this seems like a team that's going to end up with a much lower draft pick than its fans would probably hope given the level of embarrassment. That's come at certain points of this year. Now the other side for the New York Jets. There's at least been hope that coming into this year getting your quarterback for the future, regardless of the outcome for this year. It's been about building and developing in the quarterback. But when you lose by thirty points to the bills things kind of change. And so a lot of us were looking at this by week for the jets saying this might be the end for Todd Bowles, but we hear yesterday the jets plan on sticking with their head coach through the end of the season and Todd Bowles joined the Michael cash show on ninety eight point seven ESPN and definitively said that this is not about him. This is not about his job. The react Kylie want to try to get the team ready, and it was a bad performance. And I'll be your first one that we didn't close with and we didn't play. Well, but at the same time at the colts, all I can do is the and focal get ready for the next game. And try to put it behind me and try to meet New England, and that's all I can do. And that's all I'm gonna do. And you understand again, the mentality from the inside make sense here. It's amazing listening to Todd Bowles you're Todd Bowles again talking about his job security when you listen to the way that he delivers these answers Todd Bowles has so long been renowned for maintaining the same facial expressions on the sideline in these muted answers. And I realized he answers an approach is all this stuff. Like a little kinder of a Bill Bella, Jack all of this. They Todd Bowles again making this not about him. I don't talk about my where the Knicks game the colts. And you're gonna take them to clean your life. Unfortunately, and things you grow from the thing you learned from someone that live with the rest of my life. The game is today, and we all are from the teen. But sit down south about on the get up off my button work harder and get and get my butt off the ground and try to win the next one. Like if you were to throw out the records, you would say these guys sound pretty similar in their approach. The problem is everything else is certainly different. But you get the idea the jets the jets hanging out with them probably ultimately than bright move. And even as we look back on it now because the cop is going to be the Browns. The buccaneers all these situations where losing is happening at unprecedented rates at rates that make fan base is uncomfortable. And you don't have the benefit of being Pat Shurmur who's a newly minted head coach. You've got guys that are saddled with the records that they brought into these situations. Even with a new quarterback like in Cleveland, and it makes you wonder what's the right way to handle these things when we have all this frustration in the moment. I mean, we heard from Damien Woody the other day our ESPN NFL analyst who still fresh. Straighted, but you know, pointed that frustration at the players and the frustration there. How do we we always feel like when things are going wrong? Something has to be done. But in this situation, you keep the staff on through the end of the year, knowing they're not going to be around. What does that do to a locker when you've already got as Damien Woody put guys that are out here campaigning for their head coach but not backing up on the field. If Todd Bowles is your guy, I'm won't fight for you. I'm not going to allow somebody'll something to put you on. I make you look bad and these guys talk about Todd Bowles. Like, that's there may and you go out there and get embarrassed embarrassed by the Buffalo Bills pensively a team too heavy Matt elite in I actually feel bad for Todd Bowles. I do, but I put more on this on the place because dammit, you you have to be a pro and you going out there and smoke, and I never advocating for anyone to lose their job. It's the stock phrase we have to say, I feel like that is that's the with all due respect. Talking about coaching conversation. Can we all just admit that? None of us are campaigning for coaches to lose their job in that people that do that are wrong. All right, good. Now, let's have conversations when you look at that situation. The one thing that firing a head coach during the season does is sort of remind everybody that your jobs are on the line because going through to the end of the year Todd Bowles going to be around for the remainder of the season. And maybe that helps the quarterback develop and that's it. But for the rest of this team that's already having questions about their effort thrown the message that send is all right. Were clearly mailing this end. We know he's not going to be there. How do they respond to that? Is what remains to be seen first and last podcast if you're a smoker? Switching isn't easy. You've tried vapes. Andy six they just didn't deliver the satisfaction you expected but jewel is different. It's not an e cigarette. It's a vapor product that actually satisfies plus Julie's simple to use. And there's no cigarette ash and no lingering odor as a smoker. You expect a certain nicotine experience. Right. Jill delivers give jewelry. Try check. O J U L dot com slash sports. Switch and be satisfied. Yes. You can't do both. Warning. This product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical first. And last the podcast never actually seen someone like twenty five million dollars on fire. Like, I don't remember the amount of cash that was supposedly in that room. We've all seen Batman the dark Knight. He's ledgers joker and all time villain. Some people. Just want to watch the Borrell burn all these different things. But there's that one scene in the movie where they go into a warehouse room, and it's the joker and all the villains that have stored their money with him. And he's got all the money in the middle of the room. And he's giving it back to them. And he takes his share and half. And he coats it and gasoline, and we lights it on fire. I don't know if that was twenty five million dollars or not per se. But that feels like what we're watching in Dallas right now is essentially you saw twenty five million dollars get lit on fire over the last few years. And now we get to watch the world burn. It's first and last here on ESPN radio. And it's time for straight talk. Brought to you by straight talk wireless. Best phones, best networks, no contracts because so much of the talk right now in Dallas is about Jason GARRETT'S job the future in viability of Dak Prescott. And we'll hear from Troy Aikman. Dallas Cowboys hall of Famer who joined the wheel Kane show yesterday on his comfort level with paying back. Because that's where we're at in the conversation now with Dallas, it's not this season. And yes, sure they got to win the other night against the eagles in primetime. The NFC still a division that they can win certainly. But this is a far cry from the Dallas team we expected two years ago the production in the last couple years hasn't matched that. And definitely the way. They've built this. Team hasn't really matched that we all said universally coming off last season. Dallas was old and slow at the skill position. That's why does Brian is no longer on the team. That's why you looked at Jason Witten retiring and joining the Monday night booth his greatest Jason win was as a player at the end of his career. He was an old player in a slow player. And that certain veteran status benefits you some. But we thought that was an improvement. They could easily make and didn't whether it was in the drafter free agency. We have yet to see the fruits of that labor. And so I say that is the backdrop for what we're going to hear from Troy Aikman. Troy Aikman went on the wheel Kane show yesterday, FOX NFL analysts and pro football hall of Famer and talked about his confidence in paying Dak Prescott. Yeah, I think those are hard decisions to make because of the amount of dollars that you're committing for anybody. It's not just accent. But we have a young quarterback. And then all of a sudden, you're looking at a situation where okay? Well, where do we go from here? Like, I said, I think the great thing when you're investing that kind of money in any player, you want to know that the games important to them that they're going to do all that they can't improve and and help the football team, and he certainly fits that category. So I would have no reservations to pay. Back. And I think you also have to look at it and say, okay. Well, if if it's not Dak Prescott at your quarterback, then than who is it. And I think Jerry has been you're really fortunate here for quite some time going back to being able to to have a franchise quarterback in Tony Romo was undrafted. And then have a franchise quarterback in deck Prescott who was taken in the fourth round. So so with minimal investment at least early on in their careers. He's been able to find guys we've been able to come in and play play a high level, and and lead this what ball to you first? And last Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app and certainly to start off absolutely an advantage. But we're at the point now where the Cowboys of wasted that. There's no longer an advantage to Dak Prescott draft status. There's actually only a disadvantage at this point. Now deck Prescott rookie contract because of where he was drafted. Was a four year two point seven million dollar contract that has him as an unrestricted free agent in twenty twenty they would have him next year for seven hundred twenty thousand dollars. And then the following year, you'd be an unrestricted free agent. It listen before next year if they want to sign him to a long term deal in Jerry Jones has been pretty open about wanting to do. So they could. And they might have to think about that a year early because you don't have the benefit of the fifth year option. Once you get outside of that first round. See this is the fine line in drafting Horder Bax and getting that production because early on you're right. We always say you've got to win the rookie quarterback's window that first contract. And when you look at all, right? What's a first rounder with a number one overall pick it and that same sort of timeframe look at Jared Goff number one overall pick that year his contract four years twenty seven million dollars. So you're paying almost ten times as much for Jared Goff. But you also have the benefit of that fifth year option if that's the road you wanna go down. You've got a cost controlled fifth year, which are golf whereas deck Prescott. Now that cost controls fifth year would work out to something at least in cash around twenty seven million dollars. But for Dak Prescott you get to that second contract quicker and any of the game that you had. So we're going to twenty five million dollars of savings in there. There's nothing to shake a stick at. But what did you do with it? Did you go out and sign a bunch of impact free agents? Did you go out and make a difference in your franchise? The returns we're looking at right now say, no, so what have you done, but waste time and money. So Troy Aikman while that point is well intentioned, it's incorrect at this point that Jerry Jones was lucky, but Jerry Jones is now wasteful in that time period, that's the difficult part. So when you talk about paying back Prescott. Now, it's interesting because the other aspect of this is how that ties into Jason Garrett and Stephen a Smith host of the Stephen a Smith show here on ESPN radio said yesterday coming off of that win might have helped save Jason Garrett in Dallas. And at the end a Dallas Cowboys. Yeah. You want to walk around acting like you save Jason GARRETT'S job. Do you really know that do you really know that Jerry Jones wasn't gonna find another excuse to keep Jason Garrett on board. Are you really sure that that's not what's happening before your very 'cause Dallas ain't winning a Dan thing. I don't even think they're making the playoffs. But I want you. I wanna make a bet that somehow, someway, Jerry Jones, a find a way to take care of his because that's what he does first and last Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app, and we know the one thing Troy Aikman did said that impacted a lot of us was this idea that an organizational overhaul was necessary. And what does that look like because Jerry Jones isn't gonna fire himself if you were going to fire Jason Garrett. It would seem strange. To me, the idea of not going full yard sale on something new because you would have the chance to and there have been questions about Dak Prescott and his long term viability. And if he is the starter that can take you to the places this Cowboys franchise wants to get back to if you were to fire Jason Garrett. Would it not then make sense to bring in a new quarterback as well? Let this team start fresh with a quarterback who would be back on that rookie contract who could be handpicked by the coach that you put into place, and who could grow and develop together in a way that I feel like is the most beneficial way to go about developing a young quarterback in a young team deck Prescott is worth a payday. I don't think that's an issue. But how you structure these things. But here the indication seems to be than if you're going to keep Jason Garrett. Why wouldn't you keep Dak Prescott? Because if you're okay with one thing, then you should be okay with the other. And I think that's the more than likely outcome. And is that good? If you could have one or the other if you're a Cowboys fan, eight eight eight seven to nine. Three seven seven six or at ESPN radio and at of junior fifty seven if you can have Jason Garrett gone, but it means starting over with a new quarterback. Would you take that over both of them coming back? The stability that comes with paying a quarterback and Dak Prescott who I believe is a good starter in the NFL and can be like the majority of NFL quarterbacks he can rise and fall to the level of the weapons around him last night. We saw this weekend. We saw him look better than he has the benefit of play action. Passan Ezekiel Elliott having a great game debt Prescott making plays like the majority of quarterbacks like the Andy Dalton's and the Joe flacco 's and to some extent, the Eli Manning's of the world that rise and fall with the level of protection and weapons around them knowing the Dak Prescott at this point is not part of that warrior elite like drew Brees and Philip rivers and Tom Brady and and. Aaron Rodgers the quarterbacks that can exist on their own elevate the team around them and make up for the deficiencies, if your roster would you rather have all of it or none of it becomes the interesting dilemma, and it's just a thought experiment at this point because they're going to bring Jason Garrett back more than barring some sort of unforeseen buffalo Bill style beatdown like the dig gave to the jets the other day. He's going to come back. They're going to sign by all accounts Dak Prescott to an extension and round and round. We're going to go with this. But based on what we've seen in that window advantage that Troy Aikman talked about with a quarterback that was cheap and young and Dak Prescott. I don't exactly have confidence going forward that the Dallas Cowboys led by Jerry Jones are going to manage the world post quarterback payday and the challenges that that brings for your roster. First and last the podcast ordin Damer in here on ESPN New York ninety eight point seven FM right here at the top of the hour. Five AM eastern. Get triple extra protection for optimal. Engine performance was shell v power nitro plus premium gasoline, and Gordon lots to talk about in New York right now for a city that has been suffering through as bleak of football season as we've had actually a boatload of somewhat interesting in the last couple of days, but I have to start and kind of talk about the elephant in the room at this point because as you might know around here and over golick and wingo, we were pretty in favor of one particular baseball player over the course of the season. Shohei ohtani. Now your. L rookie of the year. And I know that in something that's sitting pretty with you this morning is Miguel and do har- obviously losing out in that effort. Yeah. Well, look, I mean, it's not did not come as a surprise Shohei Ohtani for when he played he was very very good. Hewlett take a look at his PSU. The fact that he was able to pitch in ten games this year. It did not come as much of a shock that he won the award mostly because anytime you look at close votes for any really of the awards rookie of the year MVP Cy Young the Yankees involved in. It's a close vote the Yankee will lose. Now, I know that that probably sounds like some crazy conspiracy theory, or, but the facts there that out and this was another and really didn't even turn out to be very close vote because Johnny I think we've got twenty five of the first place votes. But anytime that there is seemingly a close vote. It always goes against the Yankee and the reasoning behind it, always changes. It was not that long ago. Two thousand three was Decky Matsui's, ROY. Rookie year. And it was a very close vote that time the Yankee lost there as well to on hell Barreau and one of the reasons behind the voting going for Barua was that while you know, Matsui technically, he's a rookie. But you know, he was a star Japan. He was an established player coming to the United States. So he's not really a rookie in the truest sense of the word. It's funny. I've not heard any of that reasoning behind Shohei Ohtani this time around. It is amazing. What Gordon I think I speak for all of us when I say, I hope eventually something good happens for the Yankees here. Because this continued Rodway feels wrong. Look, it's almost like the game the movie quiz show. Right. Where the people are saying, well, you know, that there's all these rules in place in and it sounds like it's a crazy conspiracy. But we went back and looked and it actually turns out to be the case every single time. So it look it. It is what it is. I don't think Yankee fans are all that upset about it is only one award that the Anki fans really care about. And unfortunately that award was won by the Boston Red Sox this year talking to Gordon Damer ESPN. Ninety eight point seven in New York on the shell Pennzoil performance line. We're putting our tin foil hats on around here in the bottom of the important issues. And let's go from that news. That's got you fired up some some sound that may do the exact opposite. This point. We heard from New York Jets head coach Todd Bowles yesterday. He joined the Michael Kay show on ninety eight point seven talking about his job status. And this is him after we heard yesterday reports that the New York Giants jets plan to stick with Todd Bowles through the remainder of the season. Kylie. Trying to get the team ready, and it was a bad performance. And I'm your I wanna play that we didn't close well, and we didn't play well, but at the same time at the colts, all I can do. The HUD and focal get ready for the next game. And try to put it behind me and try to meet New England, and that's all I can do. And that's all I'm gonna do Gordon when you hear that sound. How does it make you feel? I mean at this point. It's not even really a fair. Interesting sports conversation to have right. It'd be like the jets. It's pretty clear if your jet fan, even before this past performance, which is the latest rock-bottom, it seems like every time you think, well, I can't get any worse this that jet somehow, go out and find a way to make it worse than that. But I mean at this point it's clear if it's now if it's two weeks from now if it's six weeks from now, Todd Bowles is not going to be back as head coach. I would just look at the direction of the organization that's kind of what we've done since. That's that lost to the to the bills that performance against the bills on Sunday was that it's almost an easy out to just say at this point that Todd Bowles has to be gone as if that was the only thing that has to be fixed. I think this latest example of the jets laying in against the Buffalo Bills. You know, it wasn't that long ago. It was. Four years ago Rex Ryan's final year. They basically had the same kind of game. They went out and just got destroyed by the bills back then it was Kyle Orton this past week. It was Matt Barkley. It. Looks like to me it's a bigger issue than just simply the coach to me. It's a question of whether or not after this year. That's the only change you make or whether or not Mike McCann, the jets GM also has to go as well. I am I asked Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app talking to Gordon Damer on the shell Pennzoil performance line. And I think that's just hit yesterday. The lost this weekend was so bad that usually the easy route. Because whether it was what we saw in Cleveland with with Hugh Jackson and Todd Haley getting let go dirt cutter in Tampa Bay right now. It's usually easy to point to the head of the snake and say cut that off and we'll work out the restroom there. But this lost this weekend was so bad people turned on the players pretty quickly. I thought whether it was Damien Woody. The former jet talked to my father might go senior yesterday. The ir seemed to go the way of the players in a way, it usually doesn't especially. Defensively with the amount of talent on this roster that we assume is going to be there like Darren Lee, and Leonard Williams and Jamal Adams, and these guys aren't going anywhere for this team. Yeah. And some of the big signings the jets made after last season bringing in Tremaine Johnson who is at least so far not really lived up to the dance billing and the contract that he's gotten every Williamson certainly is not really stood out in any way. No, look, there's a lot of issues surrounding the jets, and it's funny because a lot of times people will say, well, what do you want Todd Bowles to do? Right. He doesn't have a whole lot of talent. And not pensively. I think that's probably true. The offensive line is not very good. They don't have really any playmakers on offense that you'd say. All right. You really have to game plan for that guy. But the defense is something where I do think that you have talent and Todd Bowles reputation as a defensive coach, and yet he has not been able to get anything out of that either. When you go through the list of things that you would think is important in a head coach that doesn't really seem to be anything Todd Bowles in his three. Plus years here as the jets head coach coaches done well talking to Gordon Damer on the shell Pennzoil performance line. And all of this. You know were understandably looking at this situation. I think like you said looking at this the long term direction of the franchise of the right way to go. And then we've got the team across the hall from them in MetLife. In the New York Giants that go out and get a win on Monday night football last night. Gordon, how much is the image of ally. Manning getting to win a game. After everything we've heard about him worth in the face of a win that probably costs you draft position above all else. At this point. You know, I hear what you're saying. And I completely agree with you. Because you as soon as that game is over you think to yourself. Oh, boy, all of a sudden. Now, if you if you win that game, you take a look at their schedule. Unlike the jet schedule, which was actually easy in the beginning and gets harder as it goes, the giant schedules kind of the reverse of that. So now all of a sudden you beat the forty Niners on the road. You're looking at that buccaneers game. You're looking at a couple of other games where you're thinking to yourself. You know, this team just on talent alone. What you'd probably be able to get to four or five wins? And what does that mean for the long term future in terms of the draft? But just for ally manning sake, a guy who's done things the right way. It was nice to finally see at least one night where he's not getting kicked while he was doubted felt like there was a lot of piling on. And maybe that's because it was so obvious, but at least for one night, anyway, it's good to see that ally has something to kind of hang his hat on this rough season. Absolutely good to hear from you. As always, Gordon, we appreciate the time. Man. Thanks, my first and last podcast, first and last podcast did songs this morning's in honor of the passing of marvel comic book creator Stanley died yesterday at the age of ninety five Stanley who gave. Untold amounts of people a universe to where they could go and find someone find a hero that worked for them. It's very Stanley was very interesting guy. You heard him talk. Very progressive viewpoints. A guy who was aimed to make the marvel comic book universes inclusive a place as possible, and you know, that university for awhile felt very niche got opened up to a lot of people in the movies. And he's just a guy that I feel like had a great impact and live to ninety. I looked up. I didn't realize because you see Stanley in these cameos in all the marvel movies. It's the obvious Easter egg. Everyone goes in there expecting I never realized he was ninety five and is a good long life that impacted a lot of people so recipes to Stanley absolute legend of the game think of all his family and his friends in this time period. First and last Michael junior here on. ESPN radio and the ESPN app. We're presented by progressive insurance. Protecting your small businesses a big deal cover. What you've worked so hard for. Visit progressive commercial dot com. Yesterday in the NBA. I heard something that made me stop. But really I heard one thing that made me stop. I saw another thing that made me go Hm. Both of them interesting in their own, right? The first thing that interests me was something that I heard from Kyrie Irving. Now, the Boston Celtics. Have it started off the year the way I think a lot of people would have imagined. The Boston Celtics who last year took the Cleveland Cavaliers lead by LeBron James to the brink in the Eastern Conference finals Boston Celtics team who. Did not have the benefit of Gordon Hayward during the regular season at all did not have the benefit of Kyrie Irving during the postseason but road performances from Terry Rozier, Jason Tatum and the like through a playoff run. That's all right. We built up a lot of depth. There's a lot of quality guys on this team. We think we can build around going forward. But so far through the early portion of the season. We haven't exactly seen that return right now. As you look at the standings in the Eastern Conference, the Celtics, and I know it's early but sitting at six four and a half games behind the Toronto. Raptors who? Two-mile Hornby Tutut the number one seed last year in the Eastern Conference added a superstar player and got better. I don't know how that wasn't going to net them positive results. But we thought the same thing about the Celtics, and that's obviously not the case. And so it prompted Kyrie Irving to come out and say, and you're gonna have to listen closely to this one it's not the best sound in the world. But when you listen here, Kyrie Irving insinuating. Something that the Boston Celtics need right now. Right now. Nice. If someone who's fifteen year fourteen year. Helpless, grace along. Kyrie ain't that you. Like, I correct me if I'm wrong here. But. When you bring Kyrie Irving along. And I get not a fifteen year veteran. Cough cough. Not LeBron James. Kyrie Irving league for long enough. Now where in that championship bring that he got with LeBron James former number one overall pick. You're there to be the leader. Like the rest of these guys that got all that experience last year. It was valuable. It was nice to see Jason Tatum. Who's a prospect that was much like Irene coming out of college. A guy that certainly people looked at it and said, yeah, he could be one of the best coming out another Duke grad, but they're young. Kyrie Irving was brought there to be the leader to be that championship voice much in the same way. When the Brian came back to Cleveland, he was for those guys learning how to win at that level was something that was discussed understanding how to go through a long season how to prioritize rest and all these different things. So that when you get to the postseason you can play your best basketball when it counts because that's what teams in this stratosphere have expected of them. So I was a little confused when all of a sudden hearing this from Kyrie Irving like we just got through yesterday when the seventy Sixers acquired Jimmy Butler from the Minnesota Timberwolves hearing, Stephen a Smith ran doll is in the health adult is in the health. This dog statement. And this is a league that prioritizes that dog mentality. And I don't we don't have the benefit of the fuller sound bite on this. So maybe kyri Irving expounded more, and there was another flatter through somewhere mixed in all this. But just on this alone. This idea that the Celtics, and that's not even to say in a leadership role. They need that. There's always maybe the benefit of more voices. But on the surface. This is something that to me. Just sounds a little bit backwards because kyri Irving left Cleveland to be out of LeBron James shadow to be a guy leading the charge to be the voice in the locker room. So when you say, yeah, feel like we need something while I appreciate that level of honesty. I can disagree with the sentiment based off what you're supposed to be with this team first and last Michael junior here on ESPN radio and the ESPN app. The other thing I found really interesting yesterday. And because yesterday so a lot of sympathy get doled out, and I think rightly so. Tesla Vert for the New York. Nets a horrific injury. I won't watch as soon as people say don't see this injury. I don't see this Indra. I've Washington of injuries in real life to not need to be a part of one and internet video. But tears liver, quite frankly is a guy I didn't know much about before this happened. And so to hear the outpouring of emotion and people talking about what a great man what a great player he was going to be and how much this nets team was relying around him. I mean, Joe Harris his teammate was talking was at a loss of words is words. I mean, we didn't talk even when we came in and a half time is. There's nothing really to be said everybody, you could just feel it the motions everybody, you know, guys were crying come in. I mean, it was really that horrific. Just to see just I like, I said the circumstances to everything just type of person that cares is and what he's been for our team. Just you know. You're heartbroken. And you're just overwhelmed with the motions to be honest. And you understand this when it comes to things like horrific injury. And we saw this Gordon Hayward to start last year. We all understand what this means and how we're supposed to respond. The only appropriate response is sadness is being upset for this player for the team for the teammates that have lost a guy likely for the season. In a way that we all can identify. This is bad this feels unfair. This is one of the the more unfortunate parts about sports is that injury is ever present. Where it gets unclear for me is the way that we respond to something like Marquel Foltz. And I only say this because I've watched in recent weeks as we have all myself included to an extent had a good bit of fun in the NFL at the expense of a guy named Nathan Peterman. Nathan Peterman who was just released by the Buffalo Bills yesterday. Nathan Peterman who has underperformed as an NFL quarterback and his job status now reflects that but Nathan Peterman who also became someone of phenomenon because he got a fun nickname like the Peterman, and it became easy to pile on. That's what we do. We kinda rose people nowadays, it's internet culture in two thousand eighteen we all sit up here, and we sparked somebody up on the internet, and we have a good bit of foam at the jokes. And we go off there. And that's why last night. It was interesting to me watching the way that we reacted to Markelle Fultz free throw video for anyone that hasn't seen a video Marquel? Fold shooting a free throw in last night's game. Pump fakes on a free throw that sort of flinch that people some people like into Charles Barkley's golf swing all these different ways to. Indicate this is a guy still dealing with confidence issues so much. So that conveniently around that time it was made clear by the shooting coach that had been working with him this off season that they were no longer working together in a professional capacity almost trying to distance himself from what clearly is still something that isn't fixed as much as we wanted to hear about it this off season, and in this instance, I saw kindness. I saw people that genuinely seem sad for a player that had so much expected of him. That now seemed like such a far cry such a show of himself. And I thought while it's encouraging to see humanity afforded to players in a way that doesn't often happen. I was wondering why it seems. So inconsistent was it because we expected Mark helpful to be good. And he's not as a number one overall pick. Because from thirty thousand feet, and I understand part of this has to do with that mysterious shoulder injury that we never got a ton of clarity about but clearly factored into this. But we also acknowledged a lot of this has mental. I mean throw in as many interceptions as Nathan Peterman did over the course of his young career, certainly seem mental. And yet in one instance, we looked at the situation, and we afforded kindness, and we afforded that sort of humanity to Marco Fulton. It wasn't universal. But it was the general sentiment around. It seemed to be all man poor Marquel? Foltz where it was. We couldn't roast Nathan Peterman fast enough. And I'm just wondering why we selectively apply this. What about Nathan Peterman? Yeah, he underperformed and now he doesn't have a job because of that. Well, it seems like at this point. It'd be fair to say that someone could do Marquel Foltz as job better than him. And yet we don't seem to go down that path as readily as we did with Nathan Peterman, and I'm just trying to understand why. Now, there could be legitimate reasons that I'm missing and maybe the presence of injury and. That portion of last season is one of them. But it seems like one becomes this endearing story that people root for and cry from the crowd for him to shoot the ball. And the other is trying to get this guy out of his job as fast as we can. I'm just trying to figure out why I'm not pretending. I have an answer. I just from my vantage points. Very selective humanity applied to these situation. And I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. Thank you for listening to the first and last podcast. You can listen to subscribe to all ESPN podcast in the listen tab of the ESPN app. First and last.