320 - Keeping Cool On Climate
At the end of the interview. I'll say like okay. Well thanks thanks for joining us. And then you'll say okay. You know this was terrible number again. And then that'll be like our that'll be like are fake ending and I'm not gonNA hang up on. You WanNa do little debrief at the end if there's a little bit more to talk about but that'll be our ending for the purposes of the recording. So now it's gone there all right. Saint SORT OF DOT com. You're listening to Science. Sorta episode three hundred and twenty our theme. This week is keeping cool on climate. I host Ryan joining me to talk about things that are science things that are sort of science and things that wished. They were science from across the pond. Not yet cut off from all humanity because we still got skype. It's Patrick really kind of forgotten how to use this thing on. It's on it's on your hair your with me. It's been too long. It's been a long time for sure time zones make things tough but now that we're all working from home I can. I can kind of shift my day around a little bit and we can make the sun is setting here at the Prime. Meridian is still high in the sky. Here in DC. We've been having a absolutely lovely spring in which I have very little desire to go outside. Do Anything Yeah. We had the same the three weeks good weather. That England has year have decided to come right. Now we're in lockdown. Yeah that's actually depressing me you've been on a real anti-car kick for people on twitter fired up your twitter feed is all just about like walking around and closing roads. Yeah I feel like since I finally lived in a place where you actually could get around. You know if I feel like in the US. We just built everything to the point where the car is basically in assessing. There's like five places you could live in the US where you wouldn't absolutely have to own a car and I think that's that's ridiculous others Chicago. Maybe I all your new passion I've enjoy all tweets and it has made me think a lot about the way we move people around. I've also been heartened by the increase in electric bikes. That I'm seeing around. I know that there's been some issues with electric bikes in electric mountain bikes and like national parks and on public lands but as far as a way to get people around the city pretty well. He's got a few hills. It's not crazy but like you can still get most where you wanna go and DC without breaking a crazy sweat using one of those electric bikes. I'm not much of a biker. Really so I think anything you can do to get. I know that bikers a lot of times have mixed emotions about e bikes and that cities seem to have mixed emotions about e bikes for some reason Especially I know. New York is hard on them in terms of deliveries like like food deliveries. They don't like people using e bikes some reason but anything you do get somebody out of a car is a good thing. I often say is like anything you can do to get people around the city without burning carbon. But I think it's more I think it's even more than that. I think that cars I mean you follow my twitter feed from for more this opinion but I think cars just take up a lot of space and scrape your city in ways that even if they were electric they would still be a problem. I see I I totally see that point the space. It takes the park a car. The space the how hard it is to cross the streets in North America because we got these multiple wide lanes because we decided that the cars the most important thing in the city and we relegate pedestrians and by to bury edges. And you take your life in your hands if you if you need to venture across the asphalt threatening reason. Yeah no I'm with you man I'm all about I mean. I'm excited about driverless cars. But that's a different issue that I think will help solve some of those problems of the safety aspect of things but Yeah d.c before everything kind of shutdown has and it still has them. I just haven't been using them. Has These Electric MOPEDS A lot of fun. You can't limited in what they can do. You can't take them on the interstate or anything but like you can get thirty on them and cruise around town on this little electric moped. It's Pretty Pretty Nice. I don't really have a problem. I mean I know we fight over like the the bird lime scooters or whatever and people using them on the sidewalks and I think we've still blinded to the fact that we'd given all the space to the cars that we just fight amongst each other over the little hook decent little piece of land. We have left. Yeah and nobody even thinks like. Wait a minute choir. We will get rid of the big pieces of metal. That only have a person right in the middle. I'm with you and I are. I've been I've been enjoying watching your evolution into a radical radical reformer of our cities and roads. It's good it's good stuff calling follow if people are looking for that. My issue is more the way we build like our development plan in in North America. So the the car is just. It's not that I actually hate cars that much. It's just that we build all of our infrastructure to support the car so if we would just I think a car is fine if you want to go from one place to another but driving around the place when you get there in the car. I think is a mess anyway. Let's let's let's have a real episode here. I mean this is sort of science right city planning and infrastructure. Yeah so I have an interview that I did with a PhD. Becker and introduce her in the context of people we're GONNA be talking about the work that she's done advocacy work in terms of talking about the seriousness of global climate change. It's going to affect people so it is. It is a good lead in in that sense the research she does and and I think the play the first half of the interview now and then Patrick and I will pop in for a quick drinks segment about midway through and then will at the end for our little feedback segment. All right cool. I'm excited to hear from my own. Here we go. I'm being joined by my Becker who a PhD candidate in the group at the Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics at Scripps Institution of Okay which is at the University of California San Diego. I was pitched you as an interviewee by my friend. Lauren would who does some strategic communications for scripts and she sent me like half a dozen different links for things that you're talking about so I'm really excited to start working through. Some of these topics was used with. Thanks for being here. Of course super excited to do this. Thank you for having me so normally. We'll talk about person science and then talk about maybe some of the more outreach activities but we can flip it if we want to talk about the op-ed you wrote for the San Diego Union Tribune. Wow I'm counting down that road cool so you wrote a commentary op. Ed. I don't know if there's a terminological distinction there but it's titled Why Ocean Lovers Should Follow Global Climate Conference and this is the cop twenty five conference that happened in December. We're recording this January. Where a bunch of countries but notably not the US. I believe went and met to come up with no resolution on what to do but climate. You want to introduce the concept better than I did was late introduction but sure as actually the. Us is still participating in those sorts of international climate negotiations. They just sent to smaller team to my understanding on they have in the past and younger team said can pulled out there Maybe big shot negotiators and sent Maybe lower level negotiators or a scientists the policy room to actually represent US interests. I'm a basically. This is a big international climate negotiation. I'm that led to the Paris Agreement. Almond the trump administration indicated on that it is formally starting the process to withdraw and So the rest of the world is still meeting and actively trying to reach the goals of the Paris Agreement and they meet once a year in this thing called the conference of part of the Parties. And so that's what. I attended in Madrid in December. This yes I did and I went to cop. Twenty four in Katowice Poland. The previous year in two thousand eighteen and scripts is really great at kind of advocating for their PhD students in Post. Docs to explore the realm of science policy in scripts sends probably twenty or so PhD students master students in post Docs to cops. Every year to kind of represent scripts interests Intel negotiators. What SCRIPTS OCEANOGRAPHY? Science is telling us about the effects of climate change on our oceans and things like the ice sheets yet to kind of just lend more science to an otherwise pretty policy and more fuzzy feeling conference. Okay cool and what was the experience like? I've never been to anything like that. I can is it. I mean in comparison to like giant conference like Ag. You like bigger smaller more. Intimate more people dress up. What's what's the feeling on the ground while no offense to scientists but yes people do dressed up better at up. Scientists sartorially challenged. Yeah Yeah I mean definitely with their own sense of flair but definitely saw him snazzier outfits at cop than it. Ag You so in terms of size. They're about the same. There were twenty five thousand people at cop which is empire with H you. I might have gotten that number wrong but Yeah it's big similarly overwhelming. I there there. Aren't things like poster halls or anything like that but there is an exhibit hall in that square scripts usually sits on the day to day And then there are also smaller breakout rooms where I think it's called side events are going on and that's where experts and other panelists can come together to discuss a particular issue. There press conferences about science about new programs to tackle specific agenda items and then there's an entirely different section of the COP. Which is the negotiation hall? Guess you could say. And that's where all of the Country delegates in a Lotta cases. Pretty prominent heads of state will kind of congregate. And that's where all of the negotiations on specific aspects of the Paris Agreement text or on implementation or texts related to the implementation of the Paris Agreement. Kind of take place. When you're there are people serious affair or is it feel more like a typical conference. Everyone's GonNa hanging out and having a good time the sort of summer camp vibes. Yeah there's definitely some of that so then Goshi Inside it's fairly serious. Do you get to go over to the negotiation siders that kind of sequestered. It is sequestered. It's not but it's usually dislike of fact of physical distance that you just have to convert by over to the negotiations side but most of the negotiations in the first week which week that island is chewy conference. I should say most of them are open and the the body is better actually presiding over this meeting. This conference decides kind of at various points throughout the two weeks whether they WANNA on negotiations on specific items open to observers and scripts is an observer organisation. So whenever it's open to observers can go but yet in the observer more observer heavy part of COP. I'd say that tone is a little a little less. Formal people are having pretty intense meetings or putting on pretty intensive Also so each. A lot of countries have things called pavilions which is basically where event spaces where they can showcase all of their climate or green initiatives on the also have things like coffee bars and five or even earlier bail assert deserve wine or beer and so there is kind of this jovial atmosphere in part of the cop but in the negotiation side. I think it's pretty down to business. News also a lot of protests are at least in Madrid. There is a fair amount of protesting going on. And I'm Greg Berg was for a little bit of it or at least a week. Maybe an so she kind of ammo. I guess you could say was that Politicians aren't taking the climate crisis. Seriously enough the part of COP. That was focused on her was a bit more serious than also bit. More press focused on so that kind of change. The mood a little bit too. You're able to get some politicians attention because it sounds like Nancy Pelosi and some other congressional folks from California came by the Criollos Fear Pavilion. Oh yeah so yeah Nancy Pelosi. And then Mike Levin and Scott Peters so Mr Levin Mr Peter is actually representatives in the San Diego area and our some of our representatives or some of the scripts delegates representatives and so they came by twice and then the second time they came by the scripts booth they actually brought a several other members of the congressional delegation. That came to sort of indicate like even though trump wants to pull out of the Paris Agreement where still in it Several of those members of that delegation including Nancy Pelosi came by our booth and it was. It was incredible moment and are groups is director Margaret Line and was there and we had brought this buoy that can actually be sent down to the depths of the ocean at to six thousand meters depth to actually profile the ocean properties. And so we brought one of those is kind of a proper booth and our director Margaret Lyons spent about two or three minutes just talking about this buoy with Nancy Pelosi and I was just I was Kinda Fan girling in the corner because two of these incredibly powerful and inspiring women were talking to each other right in front of me and it was. It was just a really amazing moment and something that I'm really grateful to scripts for awesome and so upon coming home from that you decided to what inspired you write about this in the newspaper. It's fashioned response. I feel like so at two of the other scripts graduate students. Who went to cop an eye? Eric Ferrara and Julia donor. We actually wrote the op-ed before we left for Madrid. And another of the masterful Scripts Communications Team Rob Munro had kind of encouraged. A few of us are anybody who was interested to consider writing an op-ed to kind of describe why this cop was really important for San Diego twice. Scripts really cared about this cop on. I should have said this before. But this COP COP. Twenty five was actually called the blue cop because had a really increased emphasis on ocean issues compared to previous years and so that made it a really important conference on for scripts to kind of represented science at and then also just meet it. So what we decided to talk about in the op-ed was how San Diegan And San Diego which is a city kind of built on the ocean economy and relying on the ocean for everything from tourism to military to To food at really needs to pay attention to because this is the cock. This is the conference. That's actually GONNA start to really consider ocean issues in a really meaningful way. A number of times never set foot on a beach on my gosh. I'm so sorry to hear that. There is part of the NERD economy for COMECON. I haven't been to comic con so I guess we each missed a medical aspect of San Closest I ever get to. The water is trying to get on any of the parties that are happening in the aftermath. But I'm always so busy with COMECON stuff that I spend time on the water. It's kind of sad now that I think about it next time. You come to San Diego comment on. You'll have to carve out a beach day. Pretty meet a lot of times what I was going to COMECON. I was living in Santa Cruz. So I had a surplus of beaches in my life. I wasn't for a Nice California beach. Law still pretty cold. Even I'm from Miami. Originally and the Pacific Ocean is not only terrifying. But it is way too cold for me. It's not a very pacifying ocean given its name or no definitely not good point so okay so you kinda wanted to point out. Why conferences like this was important for San Diego and San Diegan but what is the why? Why are they big deal? So what the whole I guess. Point of our op-ed ways and this was kind of an interesting thing to To train a navigate. I think while we were writing it we were trying to figure out how political we should go And whether we should just kind of keep it to the facts like keep it to the facts that multiple like San Diego's billion dollar economy is tied to the ocean. So if at cop something something gets decided that directly affects stay like long term planning for Ocean of vacation And monitoring via satellites for example. If that decision ends at meaning that we have maybe fewer at cur tailed observations of San Diego's coastal ecosystems or sea level. For example than not could end up affecting San Diego's economy and go is just it's built. I guess everybody here has a stake in the ocean whether they know it or not or whether they understand or whether they appreciate it or not I mean even now I is concerned incredibly spoiled by. I'm sitting in my office and I'm looking out over the ocean so every day I interact with the ocean and it's not just because I'm an oceanographer or in an oceanography. Phd Program. And I think a lot of people in most people in San Diego can say the same thing and our way of life is really tied to The sustainability of our ocean resources. And so if it. Yeah if any city in the country and we're kind of in this interesting position because we have several science institutions that are focused on the ocean in San Diego and we have the navy which is a huge user of Ocean Resource. Resources Also seeks to understand a lot about the ocean in basically for a broad spectrum of listeners. So not every listener is as you know. Shares POLITICAL AFFILIATION. That one might expect from a group of scientists but I will say that the Department of Defense Takes Climate Change Very seriously. They consider it a threat multiplier. They're doing a lot in places. Like San Diego in Norfolk Virginia to shore up their their heavy heavy investments in infrastructure of maintaining a military presence. There and if you're on a boat and you need a dachshund wear and sea levels are changing rising. You can't not take that seriously just because you don't like the politics of the work. Yeah that's exactly right and somebody in my group or in my wider group at scripts. He was in the coastguard before he decided to come to his master's here. I think the Coast Guard is actually funding. His masters and he is anticipating being placed at the National Ice Center. I think it's called. I'm so he's going to be one of the people or hopefully will be one of the people who's actually monitoring the drift of sea ice drift of icebergs which could affect the trajectory of naval vessels and international vessels around the world at least in the polar regions and so like studying studying. The ocean in studying ice in the polar regions and climate. More generally is really important to you. I went to talk not long ago long ago enough that I don't remember all the details to give you a good explanation. What about to say but recently enough that I kind of remember it. There's this weird thing and you might understand the science of this better if so just cut me off explaining. But there's this weird thing like the ice sheets are in on greenland are melting. Necessarily GO UP AROUND. Greenland goes up in other places around the world and has to do with the thermodynamics of cold water versus warm water versus these like weird displacement wedges that occur like imperfect mixing of the Ocean. But but essentially you can't like it's not just towns in Greenland that need to be worried about. The Ice Sheet. Smelting towns are actually safer for longer. Because there's a weird dynamic that happens where the sea level doesn't go up locally until the very end of the melt. Yeah Yeah I don't know if this is. I don't know much about the ocean dynamics and the effects mixing in wedges and stuff like that but I do know and I was just at a seminar about this this morning actually So what's really interesting about these? Massive ice sheets is that they actually exert a gravitational pull off on the ocean around them and so that kind of when the ice sheet is at its maximum extent. It kind of sucks up all of this ocean water and then as it starts to melt and lose mass the ocean water. The water flows away the Isis heavy enough that greenland itself is GonNa Bounce back up from being off of Greenland is going to go up and the ocean isn't necessarily going to go up as well. So why and that means that goes not going up. Great and so what's interesting really interesting to me and kind of how? I can text July. A lot of what ice study is at places like San Diego in the? Us coasts are going to actually be affected above the average amount by melting ice from Antarctica. Which is kind of crazy. But it's because of this gravitational effects so because the US coasts are in what we call the far field of Antarctica that actually means that are going to receive a More than the global average of sea level rise counterintuitive to a lot of pimple. And so I think once once you explain it I think the logic of make sense but you have to. You have to walk people babies. You'd walk me through it. Baby stomach saw this lecture. And then just now because I forgot I'd forgotten about that Pesky little thing called gravity where it's head quite annoyingly does. And then there's the whole thing about being close to the equator water tends to bulge out because there are the spinning takes up more space. So there's a lot of factors that play that are gonNA make it harder for places that we think of is traditionally like hotter than Obama role. So one thing. I'm really curious about is. What was the response like? How did people in the community and the community respond to this op? Ed So I told myself that I wasn't GonNa read the comments but of course I did and went and read the comments. There was only one of them and it was very positive but I got a few emails from scripts professors or affiliates. Thank you for writing this. It's really important. Not only to scripts that San Diego understands the importance of this cop. But it's important to them as well and you guys did a really great job of kind of selling this and selling the idea of people following these climate negotiations more rigorous more rigorously or period. And so we didn't get a ton of feedback from the local community. But I'm hoping that it was positive. I don't I don't know if anybody actually ended up following cop but the good news is that the San Diego Union Tribune is starting to publish more climate related material. And I think there was a few weeks later. There was another piece published on climate the University of California's climate action goals. So we. We like to think that we're kind of getting the ball rolling on sort of scientists driven op-eds and I sort of snowball effect. Yeah maybe that dumb. Is this a method of outreach that you would encourage other scientists to consider even if they're not even climate scientists but just as members of their community definitely so obviously I feel like I'm coming from a pretty privileged position I have the backing or we had the backing of a big communications team in scripts name means a lot in San Diego already But I think that are if you're if you're passionate is writing than an op-ed is a really great medium for kind of expressing whatever it is about climate change or your science that you feel like people should know about 'em pay attention to I don't maybe maybe another four around would be. It would make more sense for other people but for me. Writing has kind of made a made more sense than than speaking only on this console will see and I think it's a nice way to kind of get your message out there without having to put yourself out there physically as much like he can still be looked up on and things like that but I think it's I think it's a really great way to reach readership in each people describes have people in place. We're able to put you in touch with editor at the tribune or like how did that okay? So Rodman relic that Communications Guy Who encouraged us to The first place pitched it for us which was really helpful. Because I wouldn't know the first thing about pitching I would guess if any if we have any you know. Scientists listeners who are interested in something like this and work for a larger institution. I'm almost positive that most universities and research institutions would have a media person whose job it is to make these connections. So if you're not sure where to start intimidated. I bet there's a resource already available to you. If you go track down and find exactly cool well. I think it's really amazing that you wrote this thing. I think it's the thing that scientists should be considered doing often just because politics aside. Politics is still local. And so like the fact that you put this out there for your community that you live in. I think is really impressive but I also imagine. It's probably a little stressful until I hit the send key It was and we were were three female. Phd Students and so. I'm sure there are people in certain factions San Diego. That would think like why should I listen to these three twenty something year old women? Yeah they're scientists but they don't have real life experience or they don't understand the economy or they don't know this or that and it's scary to put yourself out there but I think we have a real obligation when we know something about climate change when we know something about our planet and if we don't do anything to share it I think we're kind of leading our disciplined down and letting our planet down on thought that I often have. Is there a lot of situations in life where you can't help if you are privileged person you didn't ask for the privilege it is inherent to wherever you find yourself at that moment in your life and so like if you can't help having the privilege then you might as well do something with it? Yeah exactly I. Totally agree was awesome. Well I imagine after you hit the key you probably were interested in having a drink so I will go ahead and use that as my subtle transition and use that as subtle transition to ask you while we sit here on record this podcast. I can't see you so you're looking at the ocean. You've got a great view. What are you. What are you pairing with your view? Well I am not a huge alcohol drinker but I love coffee. I think I speak for most students and scientists generally when I say that I literally run on coffee and one place that I really loved visiting kind of after a long week of work. Is this place called West? Bean coffee roasters at its in bankers hill in San Diego just west of Double Park on and my partner is also Ph student in so we bike there on the weekends and if we need to get some work done we'll just hang out there or just catch up and debrief overson really delicious coffee single origin blend person. What's your roast profile? So I prefer brewing methods So I'm actually kind of I don't re- not very picky when it comes to coffee. I yeah exactly I used. There is terrible coffee shop near my college. I think it's closed now so I think I can say this but the coffee was literally like dishwasher liquid and it was just so disgusting but I was like well even though it takes that tastes certainly wakes me up so it's affected and so I just kept going and getting more coffee and everybody around me was like why are you doing this. Coffee stinks and it's like well. I'm awake so what do you want for me? There is a coffee. Roaster here DC that. I can't tell if they have good coffee or not because I find their name so off putting that I can't drink the coffee without thinking about the name lost sock Coffee Roasting Company. And he's apologized but like that's you know referring to the historical the cowboy thing of brewing coffee in a sock and just about that. Do you put the you take your sock off. Put The grinds on a sock and then throw it soak in water and it's like doesn't gross idea to me should. That's where the that's why you've lost your sock because you're using it to make the coffee that can't like every time the coffee. I'm like I just told good coffee. That's so oh yeah I totally get that? I would think that so bad name would work if it were like some sort of laundromat. Coffee Shop Hybrid cute. Exactly go find your local farmers market or whatever. I'm just like I'll get a cup of coffee because I need something walking around the farmers market but like I'm not happy about it. Well as people who've listened to the show I am a bit more of a of a beer drinker and I'm a few hours ahead of you as well so it's not inappropriate for me to pull something out because I'm here on. East San Diego to DC and one of the people who are regular listeners will be familiar with Abe and I I found out about this place in Maryland called the Brookville beer farm and I was like I want to go to a beer farm like we go to breweries all the time but a farm sounds like delightful so we took one of these alarmingly warm winter. Weekend Days We've been having here in DC. And I told I found I found the borough find the hiking. Trails found us a nature area to go hike around and then afterwards we went and checked out this beer farm and it actually is a working farm and they grow a bunch of the ingredients for the beer. They like give the spent grain to other farms that have like animals and some of the spent grain for making dough for pizza and stuff. So it's really cool. It's really fun. Spot very picturesque and it was reminiscent to me of like. Some of them are farming. Esque style like wineries in Virginia Shenandoah area. But this is focused on beer and in Maryland and so I got a pack and I picked one that is called the barred. Owls they have a bunch of different. Like Bird Ole themed beers but I thought like bartow the labels on like a nice snowy winter background. I thought like I'm talking to a person who thinks a lot about ice. I'll had a frost. It's a white which is not a style ever really enjoyed. But we'll see if maybe this is the one that breaks the mold. Wait what is a white IPO? I'm a terrible San Diegan for asking this question because everybody here knows everything there is to know by as but I think it's an like an American but with wheat and to make it more a wit beer but yeah it's not style that I've been overly fond of in the past but I think it's like it's sort of like if a blue moon had a bunch. Hops shoved down its throat scripts and so this one says that. It's a why brewed with fresh grapefruit hopped with Mosaic Unreal hops. And I also I do really like Ip as with grapefruit. I think the great hops is a nice pairing so willing even want to try and it is not bad and I just. I don't know the legal. So pretty I know als- als to me or like the they exist on that Uncanny Valley of either the most majestic serene looking thing or they're utterly terrifying an alien and so if I wanted to escape the terror of the owls and trade them for a larger but maybe less threatening bird. The Penguin I might head down. And that's You might see some of your research happening. Wow unfortunately I don't do anything with penguins and I've never seen one but you've got a zoo nearby that's has some renown to roam around. You could yeah. I actually haven't been to the zoo yet. So on my on my bucket list. We world-class zoo. I segment with Maya. But it's been a while since Patrick on the show. I thought why not bring up the interview with another quick drink segment because it would not be an episode of science. We didn't talk about what we drinking. Patrick I believe you. You've tried an experiment. A have an experiment. Yeah so super excited about you. Know all the in Quarantine Social Media. It's been all about the fermentation right. There's been lots of sourdot Bros. postseason. Now they're their wares. So I don't know how I wound up down this rabbit hole but I got down a rabbit hole of firming things and I wound up with reading about Ginger bug which is just fermented ginger that you can use to make ginger beer or you can add it to other sort of juices or sweet drinks to to make up. Its jitterbug like A. It's like a starter but yeah made with ginger right so it's basically a hour to exactly. It's a sour dough starter. But you're making it with just like grated ginger in some Water Cup Cup and a half a water WARTA. What what why can't even say water anymore? Water Salad said I have to say water here or no one understand what I'm saying. Yeah so you like a cup and a half of bad sitting in a mason jar or something day you put. Like a tablespoon of grated ginger in a tablespoon of sugar and into it and stirred up you do that for about five days or maybe a week and you should see the to be made some. Your Ginger is gonNA float to the top. And that's how you should should know that things are active in there and it's it's a so is the bacteria just ambiance or are you're not introducing like a yeast or anything right. No I didn't so well we'll we'll see how experience goes but I didn't the directions I read so I was reading from the I think it was zero. Waste Shafran your waist kitchen. Something like that That was the blog that I read. And no they. They seem to think it's long as you is. You don't have like you know if you've got chlorinated water water you should let it sit for a while with the weight you switching to the accident. You sound like Simon. Pegg on car giving report one water right one cup of Water. Where where we where? The bacteria the source you're renting microbes. So yeah you may have trouble if you have irradiated ginger for whatever reason so. They recommended organic ginger. Just because it wouldn't have been treated with something anti microbial most likely and if you've got chlorinated water never be able to speak again. Thank you after. Let that sit for for a day or two. Sorta let the chlorine sort of evolve off of it. But I didn't have either one of those issues. Appar apparently didn't have either one of those issues when I was making the Ginger Bug. After about three days it stopped smelling so nicely gingery and started smelling a little funky bikes. No yeah like Sour fermented sort of you know. What's the stuff they like? Here the edgy. Might Marmite so. I thought it was. I thought it was working pretty well so after after that. You just want to get whatever sweet drink. You're about to add this to so if you're making sort of traditional ginger ale you adjust chop some ginger. Boil it in. I don't know a couple of cups of water. Ginger Ale not ginger beer ginger Beer Yup I. I'm not really store why they would be different things but it ginger beer. You Chop Chop Ginger. Boil it at some sugar to it stirred up you. So basically made like a a ginger flavored syrup you sorta strain the ginger out of there And then you add a good amount of of cool water to that and the reason for that is you need to. You need to cool down that mixture before you add your ginger bug to it. Yeah so that's a step. I'm I'm concerned about so it felt cool enough to me. I think about one hundred and twenty degrees Fahrenheit is about all the east can handle and it felt to me so I went ahead and added at ginger bug but maybe I was a little impatient. Not sure then you then you put it in to use. Put it into bottles after that it ferment. For a couple of days if theory there is like CEO to be produced. So you're getting engaged and produced in alcohol at the same time. So you're supposed to sort of your bottles every couple of days so the first time I I sort visited one of my I hear sort of the gas escape and then the second time I did it. I didn't really hear anything and so I like. That's not what expected also couldn't really see any bubbles happening in my in my bottles but here I have the finished product like one of those girls bottles I did. Yeah so it's a super thick. This is not talking. What is it smells? It smells good ish show. Does this remind me of have you ever done done? The Chia visit like throwing water and they make like that gelatinous. No must any of that stuff. I've for since since we've been lockdown. I've fermented hot sauce from using some Harrah's garlic and carrots and that's really good and I had a bring me some anthem. Gums able to stabilize it into like an actual. You know looks looks like something you could sell? And then I made some jarred narrow some fermented Jarrah cool. But I haven't met with any other day. Those have been my firm project. So far I haven't mastered ending else would have created here is Very Syrupy and knots carbonated and probably not alcoholic. Yeah I don't know what to compare that to exactly but it's almost it's not quite. It's almost like if you try to do home. Kan Jam you know you sort of. I don't know added a little lemon juice to this. I don't know if created some sort of Pectin with this with the sugar and the I don't. I don't know what's going on here but it didn't. It did not firm it adequately so here I got to figure out now so I can't feed him my ginger bug and so what I might do is just once I get that sort of going again. Just add it to these bottles and see what happens there so I don't know if the gingerbread just wasn't as active as I thought it was or a screwed up at step in my water was too hot when dad that onto it in there. Yeah she'll be able to get it going again. It's what I think. Well Good Luck. Thank you. I'm having a a beer in honor of you on one of our last outings before everything got shut down a an I and our wives and dog went on a hike out Maryland. We went on a heck specifically because I saw a I wanted to go to and I was find us near the spirit and we'll go hiking. Go for you. Yes and then we did. That sounds awesome. We did the hike and then there ended up being brewery even closer to where we finish the hike. It was literally around the corner from the parking lot of where we hike and this is Pine Brewing and blending company and this is one of their limited offerings called a proper Porta historic London. Style border one quarter porter trump trump appointees not scripted hermitage one. They successfully fermented it into keep revenue in thanks. I don't know exactly. What makes us a porter historic London style versus modern American style? I don't know maybe I should have left it out at room temperature. What they it was called porter because the porter's drink it and who are they people who load things at Docks? Carry a special kind of beer like why couldn't they just drink? I have read something about this but I can't remember why that style got associated with was cheaper strong or something. I don't remember sorry. No curiously googling right now furiously but halfheartedly. You're right it does say that you know. The name originated due to popularity with street and river porter's but I guess it's not crazy that things would have been like that I guess if you're only ever hang out with borders and you'll decide you like drink in the same thing that becomes associated with you but it just seems weird that like something that makes sense you're sending it. It's a payload that you're sending to look idea that just like Oh only coal miners. Drink this beer. So that's coalmine style right hand. It says that stoute's were just like stout was an adjective for the porter type of order. A strong porter mean for people who are familiar with airport or as A. It's a dark beer. It's Dark Ale. That's usually dark because of the type of malt that gets used using to hoppy a lot of times. They come out like roasted flavor. Chocolate flavors coffee coffee and they're pretty big range in proof like you can get some barely doubts. Are you know basically why this one is a reasonable? This is only five point eight percents. I think I could finish this and still go and port something around. Maybe that's the historic style. Because I feel like the weird trends in the microbrews seen over over Britain right now but I feel like we went really hard on the high gravity stuff in microbrewery scene here in the states and then now we're kind of pulling back from that and realizing like maybe people WanNa have more than good the they tend to be low lower gravity here just because I mean of the pints are are twenty ounces here right. They're not sixteen ounce bike so you're drinking drinking. Yeah you're drinking more and I don't know why so. Things tend to hover around like three and four percent like they've microbrewery receive. Is I think become a bigger Dale here in the last ten or twenty years so The gravity are creeping up but historically Monday beers are bit weaker. And but you know it's also the culture of you. Just drink them all night long. So I'm guessing no not anymore. Able to take people can call the pub and have a beer brought out or whatever. There is one pub in town that I'm aware that is delivering. Like I mean basically growlers crawlers. Have Become Pretty Handy in these times. I don't have a brewery in walking distance here at my apartment. But I have to say that are both in walking distance take out in crawlers and growlers and hit them up once or twice so far very cool. Well I don't know how to transition back to my interview with Maya except to say that it'd be discussed experiments. That didn't fail some spirits develop. I was GONNA say in yours better. We're going to go with that part to interview. Go let's come back and listen to my. And maybe she can tell us about some experiments. That didn't fail. Okay so I guess. Many people maybe even my own perception of Antarctica continent covered and penguins. But it's really a continent covered in ice and the penguins. I'm guessing actually exists more at the fringes of the cotton. And so. Can you tell us a little bit about your research. And what is your doing down there on the southern continent of course so. My research is generally focused on the floating ice shelves of Antarctica. So these are just the bits of ice that are sitting on top of the of the ocean and the actually through contact with the sites so the bedrock itself or the I guess the rock that forms the continent itself and then contact with highs in the sea floor. They can actually can hold back. That I That sitting on top of the the continent itself not floating on the ocean. So that's the ice that grounded ice the ice that if it were to mount if it were to flow into the Southern Ocean would contribute to sea level rise so I'm really interested in the various processes by which these ice shelves so those floating masses of ice gain and lose mass and so I shall stability In those processes of Massar masking are really important for teacher projections of how much sea level rise we can expect from the Antarctic continent. So are your questions in terms of the scale in terms of timing and if so what is the scale in the time like how much are they gaining and losing over what period of seasonally yearly Katie? So I'm focused. On two main processes one is a small-scale cobbing process at the front of the major shelves in Antarctica so the biggest ones and the ones that actually have the highest potential to hold back grounded ice. And so these cabin events iceberg lasts. Shedding events are triggered by elevated ocean melting. And we think that that is on a seasonal process that That elevated melting bet kind of coincides with warming of the ocean. Amir the Ice Shelf Front but the feature that develops in that eventually leads the calving event. Kind of forms over the course of several years and then At some point the ice the Ice Shelf won't be able to take at the sort of stresses that are induced by the presence by this melting. And then the cabin event will occur and then the other process that. I'm focused on is the freezing of ice onto the base of these ice shelves actually from the Ocean Water and so I'm using the bottom up and then floating. Yeah so so. The ice shelves are so they flow off the continent and are they floating on the water or are they more as more of it being held up by the continent and the shelf itself is strong enough to support its own weight yes so they are floating on the water but there are also in contact with the continent itself like the topographic constraints. There a lot of them are invade kind of envies little Guess Caverns you could say that the Antarctic continent forms and so yes. So they're in contact with rock. N That produces can of sidewall friction and that friction actually can propagates upstream as like something called back stress. And that's that back. Stress is what holds the grounded ice that's upstream in place and so I shall can one of the ways that shelves lose mass is through melting. A at their bases by warm ocean water soap there floating there's an ocean cavity below and warm water can intrude into that cavity and then flow up and eat away at the ice shelves. Basis GonNa Float to the top of the water column on that part of the ocean have the warmest water encroaching on the bottom of the ice right. Yes that there isn't some salinity contribution. That's making it more dense than other water and so most a lot of what hear about in on this field of Ice Ocean. Interactions is basal melting of ice shelves by Warm Ocean. Water base jumping is just that melting from the bottom. Yes exactly and Oh Chicago refers in glaciologist. Had worked together kind of to identify the characteristics of the water masses that actually eat away at the ice shelf bases But some of in some in the rate look circumstances these water masses can actually lead to the freezing in place of seawater and that those frozen water can actually stick to the ice shelf space and that forms a layer of ice called marine ice And it's actually a warmer than ICE. That develops just from snowfall and flow of ice from the grounded. Portion of the continent does the salt get incorporated into that ice as well. 'cause I mentioned the snow. The snow is not going to have any soult right exactly. Yeah it is so this marine is is much more saline and it's also because it's warmer it softer and so that means that it can actually kind of form more and it can take stresses just kind of breer e- add yeah exactly and so that can actually change kind of the. If there's a big enough marine ice than that can actually change the viscosity profile or the overall I guess strengthen rubbery Innis of the ice column in a given Ice Shelf. And so it's a an important structural element. And I'm looking at mapping the presence of this marine ice mass On Ross Ice Shelf. Which is the biggest ice shelf by area in Antarctica? Shelf is like a steel sheet like it's this rigid thing. That could be could be deflected if you put in a force on it but instead you're just welding a bunch of like very malleable copper. To the bottom of it. And that's the properties of responds to different stressors and stuff. Yeah exactly and a couple of other shelves have Marine Ice Layers. That are over one hundred meters thick and so these. Yeah and when we're talking about a said the Ross Ice Shelf We think that the marine ice layers maybe on the order of tens of meters thick but the amory shelf in I think in some places the marine ice layer is almost two hundred meters thick and the ice shelf itself is like maybe fifteen hundred meters thick in that place. And so that's like a seriously that might be wrong. That ratio might be wrong. I might need to look that up but it's like a seriously big portion of the overall ice thickness yet. So that's that's great background. A big picture next question would be so what are your actual methods for measuring what it is you're measuring. And what exactly are you measuring so for the ice front process the cabin process? I'm using at least curves. We having it sounds like cute twee but like these are huge chunks of ice so yes that these are pretty small and pieces of ice on picturing James Bay chasing ice like waves being formed. Sort of stuff. Yeah so there might be small waves on being formed and you might be able to pick up the energy release associated with that on like a with a seismometers for example. But they're not the huge cobbing events that we think of that we've seen in the in on videos order. Yeah Yeah. New Problem They they are still big in the scheme of things. But I'm there fairly skinny and they kind of form along pre existing weaknesses. I shells. Yeah and so. I'm using all Tim. Etry data from a both airborne and satellite campaigns to kind of masks. The surface feature that we know is associated with this sort of cabinet event and so that ultimately data is basically dressed Data shows the height or elevation of acidic surface. And so we can actually see how the surface changes is near the front at how it changes in height and that gives us a clue that this process elevated ocean melting. Might be happening here use. Your assumption is the ice sheet. If the altitude of the ice sheet of the top of it goes down your assuming you've seen melting but if it goes up you've seen new ice Maria forming so I think I mean we're talking about the coming right. Yeah I I don't think I actually explained like the feature itself very well so What we're looking for the in the allocation data is this little uptick in the surface right by the ice shelf front and so that uptick. It's like A. it's called a rampart moat or it's been called that by other people With uptick being the Rampart and then a little depression immediately inboard of that rampart called the Moat Rampart. Looks like an old fort exactly users. Sounds very game of thrones. He now Rochelle exactly. And it's a little weird it's like. It should be flipped in my opinion. Because if we think of the the thing that you want to keep out as the ocean and the moat should be outside with ramparts. That I don't know maybe maybe I'm getting my architects wrong that you need to include like medieval literature and history. Phd Candidate on. Your as your collaborator on really at regretting. That my none science person on my committee was inevitable but so we're looking for that rampart moat feature and that feature develops because of that elevated ocean melting. That I was talking about. That's in and we can actually use repeated altimetry profiles to see when the calving that has occurred or at least two kind of narrow our identify a window over which that cabin period to material out there with a ruler. Or what's the so? I'm using satellite data mostly from this mission called the Ice Cloud and land elevation satellite It was a satellite on launch by NASA and it was operational between two thousand and three and two thousand nine and we actually are. Nasa actually launched a follow on mission in September of two thousand eighteen and my adviser is a science team member for that mission and so I got to use the data almost as soon as it was available because of that which is really fun. Really Cool And I got to go to see the satellite launch. So you are you literally. There's like waiting for an email. That is like the satellite emailing you. What it's like so no I have to. I have all the data and I have to sort through it all myself. I wish I were good enough. It machine learning and automation that I could just write something that would look for it for me and it could just email me when it found it. Yeah I think I need like little minions for that attended some meetings recently. That are like kind of big picture. What's the future of geosciences moving forward with specifically with thoughts on marine learning? And A and like. There's talk about rewriting job curriculum from jump to basically be a coding degree that your data says usually earth science state. Wow I don't think that's a bad idea. My undergrad degree was in Earth Sciences. And I didn't do any coding at all and I feel like it just wasn't in tune with how the sciences are going. So maybe that's not such a terrible. Yeah you either need you to collaborator. Who can handle the big data stuff or you gotta learn it yourself and if it's hard to pick up when you don't get it in Undergrad. I mean I was fortunate. I had kind of a a math heavy geoscience education but I didn't have any specific coding but fortunately a lot of my earth science stuff has to do with like ecology and our has become the defacto language of ecologists ca analyzing data. And it's open source so I wasn't I was able to. There's a lot of resources out there for figuring out how to use are so. I'm not a great coder but I can get done what I need to get done in the environment and then apply all. That's all we can ask window or at least that's how I feel. I have a friend who was doing a post doc at the Smithsonian and she she was such an our guru that she basically like if she saw you open illustrator. Because you couldn't get to make figure that you wanted to make you come over and be like no. We're going to figure out how to do some code talk. If you have to open illustrator kick you out of our group for her. I learned learned so much from just it was sort of playing already. Know How to do it in illustrator. And she's like exactly so you have nothing to learn their like figuring out and you can't. You can't argue there. I couldn't figure that time. Well that's awesome so so big picture results. What are you seeing in the data that you're getting from these altimetry measurements that you're taking on the sheet shelf shelf so we're seeing this feature this signature of elevated ocean melting across the ice shelf front which is really cool not only does it kind of validate this existing model that somebody else had developed or Michael Author had actually developed to kind of explain How icebergs with similar features could decay by. Yeah it's it's really cool to kind of see the feature in real life and see cabin events arise from it in so the big picture implications for this is so Ross Shelf. It's the biggest ice shelves and it has one of the highest buttressing. Our restraint potentials for grounded ice since it's really important in terms of ice sheet stability. Yeah we need it exactly and so if this right now it's in studies or it's relatively in balance and so it's not losing more mass than it's than it's gaining but if something were to change for example if the ocean the top part of the ocean near the front got a lot warmer just due to climate change. If that were to happen then we could see this process. Play a bigger role in in theory. This this casting process could lead to a massive retreat In the right conditions. I'm not saying that's happening now. But in a warmer ocean that could actually cause the ice front to step back and that would reduce the overall potential of the ice shelf and that would lead to the acceleration of the glaciers. The ice streams that are feeding the ice shelf into this other notion that would directly contribute to sea level rise and when you say warming oceans obviously the ocean is absorbing a ton of carbon dioxide atmosphere. Keat I think if we lived on a planet with smaller oceans no one would be able to ignore climate. Change the way that we try to ignore it now. Just because the ocean is such a huge repository of energy and carbon dioxide. The is really buffering us against some of our own worst habits but I think that's that's one trend but the ocean is a huge body of water. So it's going to warm relatively smoothly. I imagine there's a model for your for the Ice Shelf. Ross Ice Shelf. Where even if the ocean doesn't warm up significantly if the currents change in the way that warm water is moved around? The ocean could really throw a lot of heat under the shelf. We don't want it. Yeah exactly and it's kind of a feedback So there are still a lot of feedbacks in the climate system that we don't know about or that we don't understand fully but if you have just a little bit of warm water that can enter the cavity below in ice shelf or access. The front of an ice shelf melted than that creates that that adds mass and ads pretty cold freshwater into the surrounding ocean. And that will that will affect the circulation. The regional circulation of the Southern Ocean Also affect a deep water formation that kind of occurs as a result of the existing circulation density driven circulation. Mostly and so if we if we add mass and if we add fresh water to this ocean that's actually going to affect the entire global current system and not in turn could lead could in theory lead you changing conditions near the Ross Ice Shelf and so it could kick in to place on some pretty critical feedback that we don't we don't really know very much about trying to figure out what was going to say is the more knock on affects you. Add to the system the harder to predict what's actually going to do. Because if you think of if you think of the feedbacks and the knock on effects like the pegs in a game winco or you can't really you can maybe guess if it's GonNa go left or right once or twice but at a certain point after a dozen plink heads you really know where it's GonNa go. It's too difficult to string all the predictions together in a way. That is has any predictive power. Exactly and that's why it's so important that we act on climate change when I mean. Don't know everything but we know enough to know that. Were literally tampering with our climate system. And there's so much more that we don't know and that's what's really scary And we don't have time to say it all out. We don't have time to figure out all of the science having once the effects start. It's already too late. Yeah exactly exactly. It's this kind of ties back into what we're talking about before I just like we were saying all politics is local. It sounds like all ice melt is local but also has worldwide effects. Yeah definitely I'm from Miami originally and my I grew up on a barrier island just east of the downtown area and it's pretty clear that what I'm studying in its Other people in my group are studying is going to lead to the inundation of my hometown which is kind of crazy and that's a huge motivator for me not just studying the science for the sake of learning more and getting to go to the coolest place in the world but I. I wish that I mean I love Florida but I think see that technically from Florida as well I was born in Florida Panhandle Guy. Though so cool nights nice well the ruled coast as we like to call it or the redneck Riviera as yeah. I'm I'm from. The part of my job is that from the part of Florida. That's actually Alabama. Yeah I I'm not from. I'm not from the retire. Retirees and Cuban sandwiches part of Florida. Right exactly well. That's where I'm from. So this is my sister lives in south. Florida now and she's got a great Bagel shop right nearby. Gee How did this pop up put cool? Yeah but so. It's kind of yeah. I think it's an important. It's important to have that motivator for me especially because I don't really I mean I love the science but I don't really plan on continuing to do it like I think. The motivator of climate change in the necessity for climate action is too great for me to just like stay in academia Tower continue to. I mean unless I I found unless I were like Kathryn. Heyhoe who actually at scripts last week in his the most incredible scientists slash science communicator. There is I don't know I don't feel like this is yeah. I don't know I just think that more money intas need to step out of their comfort. Knows if you'd like to another I would support that because she's a really impressive person. We haven't had her on the show yet but she's on my list so he would be so great like literally the last week. I was so inspired by her. I was yeah I was just walking around. Didn't yeah I WOULD IMAGINE. People are going to be inspired by everything. You've talked about As well your sign okay. So so just a few more questions to kind of wrap everything up to questions that are sort of related if people were to remember one big picture takeaway message from your research. What would you want that to be and then same question but about your advocacy okay so the big takeaway about my research that I liked highlight is actually what you brought up that gravitational effect and I'm this idea that different masses of ice will affect different coastlines in different communities in different ways so greenland will actually end up having a a higher a disproportionate sea level rise effect on the southern hemisphere an Antarctica. Which is the sleeping giant of sea level rise? It has many many. It has like six times. Sea level potential is greenland six plus times. And it's going to be the kind of critical piece of the sea level rise puzzle for Northern hemispheric coastlines. Like places like we grew up and then in terms of advocacy. What do you want people to take away from the work you've been doing? I guess I feel like something that I've really learned in this going to find something that capping heyhoe said so. I hope she doesn't come on your show that would be sometimes acquire as louder than a soloist like helps to have multiple voices saying the same thing to make it louder for those in the back right here rate So she talked about this kind of spectrum of outreach and kind of finding at that point on the spectrum where you're comfortable where you're not pushing yourself too much on an yourself putting yourself in uncomfortable situations and I think I've kind of I didn't think very much of the op-ed format before I wrote this one but I think that's a really great kind of stepping stone in it was a really. I was very comfortable with that format and so I think it's really important to find where you're comfortable. I'm also signing that uncomfortable. Like speaking with policymakers to a certain degree Which is kind of crazy. I wouldn't have thought that a few years ago but I think finding where you are in the spectrum and like what you're willing to do And She Catherine Heyhoe put this really nice way like for some people that could just be that just that could be just continuing to publish Your research which is relevant to climate change or not but for other people that could mean running for office and so I think Her point about finding your niche in that is really important just continuing to work at that level is really great value in occasionally putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. That's for me. I've been doing science outreach in this podcast format for ten years. Now it's something. I'm very comfortable with so like comfort. Some comfort can sometimes lead to complacency. So I've done. I've been doing things in the last year. Or so that. Like you said talking to policymakers things like that. That are less comfortable for me. And I think there's there's value there to be carving triple A. for you will. I think I think it's building on what you said where it's like find the thing that you're comfortable doing and develop that as a skill and then learn the ways in which the development of that skill can help you in places where you might feel less comfortable walk so for. I feel like I've gotten pretty comfortable at speaking on a mic when I'm alone in a room and nobody's here. So how do I like that that ability to string a thought together and hope? It's all in the goal of giving myself less to edit. How do I just say something that can serve me well in a meeting? With policymakers where I can't go back. And Edit I have to say it right in the first place and I have to make my point quickly and clearly and so like if I think of it in those terms you know the skills I honed by doing something that was comfortable for me also helped at the Times where I was in situations that were less comfortable but still important and worth pursuing. That's a great point. Solved Science one last thing is what do you have coming down the pike and find out more about your work in the in the wide world of the Internet? If they're curious to learn more yeah well. Hopefully I'm going to graduate That's always the hope. Yeah I'm hoping to graduate THIS CALENDAR YEAR. Which is scary to say out loud and that involves publishing some papers that. I've been procrastinating on but after that. I really actually liked to do something like what you're doing Ryan. I am applying for a I. Don't WanNa say this out loud and they don't get it but whatever A Noah Marine Policy Fellowship. And I am hoping to live in. Dc At least for a year or two test that out. But I'd really like to just kind of transition into some sort of climate sea-level rise advisory role. I'm not really sure at what level I want to start at the federal level. Just because that's what interests me most but I could very well end up advising my hometown or something like that in there Sea Level Rise adaptation but yet in terms of might online presence. I'm a little slow on the social media uptake I don't have my on twitter or on website but you can Follow my group on twitter. Sometimes it contribute to this account at Seo Glaciology and we post a lot about what we're doing at meetings and then we also have a few threads on what we did at cop at international climate conference. That I was talking about earlier. Yeah and there's some pictures of me with Nancy Pelosi or and a large group of people about some serious goal vibes. Let's awesome. Well thank you so much for joining us to please. Don't hesitate to reach out. I will take you to my favorite coffee shops around the the district and I want to go to the beer farm. Yes we can definitely go to the beer farm. That's a little bit further outside the district. It's so funny when you living here I'm not. I'm not a city kid by birth and development but I've had to kind of grow into a city animal with where I currently live but like you drive twenty five miles outside. Dc like it's it takes it takes longer than it should drive those twenty five miles but once you're out there it's back in the boonies pretty quick. Once you make it easy we will get coffee and then we will take that coffee and fuel our drive out to the farm and we'll have a great time so ready awesome. Well thank you so much for joining us a lot of fun talking to you. Hope I think people will get a lot out of our conversation and have agreed now so much for having me. This was a blast so that was my interview with my thank you so much to Lauren would for coordinating that interview. She has helped me and hooked me up with various folks from scripts over the years and has a really good really good sense for when we're going to have a good conversation somebody so I definitely appreciate her being on the lookout for us in that way. Not a lot of places to to follow my on the Internet as you heard feedback for her about the episode you can send that feedback straight to us and we will forward it along to her and if it's really something special you might hear about it on our final segment house. The show where we tackle the feedback comes in from all corners of the Internet. And Patrick you want the review or you want the handle thesis duty. What are you feeling? I'll take the review help as much as I can with on thesis. Jd but you take that off. Well now let's do the reverse because there might. You never know when stuff okay. We started kind of switching up a little bit where you never know. What's GonNa come in the Paleo past segment itself? That might also be useful in figuring out thesis. So we're actually kind of reserving theses to the end now okay. Nothing ending strong with a poorly defined Improv. Game between people who aren't trained yes and okay. I got an eighteen review from Jack. Do Twenty four sounds like another person that you'd be giving portions to over Entre Coup Jack. Do Twenty ball all right. Jack Do Masumi. That's a I'm going to go with the male pronounce. We've never we've never known we've always struggled the entire length of the cats says this podcast. The super inspiring exclamation point five stars great review already. I'm going to go further them. Science sort of his honestly one of my favorite podcasts. I've been listening to the past. Six months or so Miss Arabists aren't that won't but in that time it's become one of my top bathes. The subject matter and discussions are really well thought through and put together as an environmental bio major. This podcast mixing want to go out and continue to learn more about the world and all the interesting things has to offer. Thanks for the inspiration. When you're welcome Jack do twenty four. Thanks for the review. Yeah and thanks for setting environmental biology. That's an important to be healed. It's going to be crucial. I think we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA need to know what's going on so get out there and figured out and then come on the show and tell us about it. Please do all right and when you finish. I'm assuming you're going to have a thesis. So we're you know the sort of patriotic and you can support us by going to Patriot com slash science sort of and if you do so at the Avocados army level or higher we will give you as a reward. Live on the show. A made up these. This episodes thesis goes to Lindsey. Who says in her patriotic profile? I believe in being childlike without being childish. I love nature and wildlife. Sounds like somebody who would be into environmental biology? I didn't play in that but this is exactly why we do it that way. Do you think the same person you jack. Do as an alias. All right let's see so now now usually sort be have these titles coincidentally things we talked about on the episode in which pieces has been bestowed. Ride yes so it's all. It's all weaving together with things. We run on the show. The whatever we know about the person right. Maybe something about like. The environmental biology of something in Antarctica has to do with children like being childlike without being the pedia. -MORPHOSIS PENGUIN TATUM Of Extreme Philip east culturing penguins crisis fear or service. Penguins East Culturing Ping went after. He's culture feel a yeast culture on penguins some sort of parasite so I know about this show. Let's see let's see more of Penguins Colon. We explained what PD Amorphous is. Because I'm not sure we can be more is win. As an animal or species reaches reproductive maturity floor. The AFFORD EXPRESSES ADULT CHARACTERISTICS. So like in a it would be like if in frogs if Tadpoles reach reproductive maturity and started reproducing before ever going to the frog stage. And then you would have this new species of tadpole things and all of a sudden it would be sort of adult. Tadpoles which is not really possible. Currently right Tadpole is by definition. A juvenile frog Is that Helpful Ryan. Yes you can add. Add to it or has this picture. -morphosis penguins exploring the environmental biology of childlike chicks on Antarctica's Ross. See I like it. I couldn't work in fermentation but I think that still ties in a few things for Lindsey. That actually sounds like a good study like every once in a while we come up with something. Sometimes they're ridiculous but like this. There was a species of penguins that was evolving to be a more childlike version of themselves into adulthood. Like I'd WanNa know I'd WanNa know about that. I'm nice yeah I mean that would that. That is a science paper nature paper. Good Job Lindsey might be the most the most well. The most cited of cited study so funny. If we started at the next level of we start giving out impact factors to our patrons. Actually I realized very quickly my headed I would just US ranking people who support the show and that feels wrong. I don't think so. Maybe we won't do that. But that's a great thesis. I actually think there's there's there there and blown away by our listeners. Oh how could the science do is especially when it seems like it could have been made up on the spot? Patrick you got anything else going on in your life or things watching things from it poorly hanging right right or not. No I don't have any Any Internet project suite of follow the. Don't think just feet if you want. Let's see man angry about roads? Yeah that's right or I. I think I just taken the red pill. Yeah taken the red pill. I've seen what life can be like a town. You can walk around all right. Real talk read. You don't ever for yourself as a red pill. That's the men's rights people like the guys who I am aware that they call themselves that but I didn't realize they had co opted the term so fully that you weren't allowed to make a matrix reference anymore. I mean it is ironic that they have co opted. A reference in what in hindsight seems to be very clear allegory for like coming out as Trans World Weird I guess. I don't know what to tell Ya. Yeah so all right so we can back up so yeah good. I think people realize not men's rights activists Patrick. Well unless you're unless you live in a country where you have no civil rights anyway then. I guess I'm for men's rights as much as anyone else's Do carry on do what you do. Internet. I just keep taking over things that we try to use to make allegories illusions to and turn them into horrible things. Good Job Internet this. The show is on the Internet. You can find it at science sort of dot com where will be show notes for this episode and links everything that we talked about and including social media and Patriots and paypal donations and other stuff so if that is of interest to you go check that out and if you enjoyed this program be sure to a next time where I can. We've already recorded. It's I know we're talking about Komo. Chicken little sneak peak. We we not really in the business of giving teasers but we could try it see if it what's in the appetites Hippos but not where you think art come back for that Because you'RE GONNA win. That episode comes up. It's going to be full of a whole lot of science sort of try that again. Why have we? We're like perfect unison. Didn't sound that way from here. Cool I just intuited that you were GonNa give me a kind of lackluster melancholic. Sort of and I just went with it and I was exactly right. Cool science sort of DOT COM for show notes links to all the stories. We talked about and ways to interact with the host guests and other listeners. Science sort of is brought to you by the Media Network of podcasts with audio engineering by ten jobs of the Encyclopedia Brunch podcast. That's all for this week. See you next time on science aura. The NARNIA. There's a certain type of kids story where this happens. Where like within the context of the story? The kids grow up. But then it's undone by the end of the story and they go back to being kids and I'm like that would mess me up so much right because the kids. I'm already like he's a king like a your teenage again. The first Monje does that too in a way that I'm just like wouldn't it really scar you and make living your life linearly very difficult crazy for thinking about the so much or well. What's going on here probably?