Two Persecuted Pastors with Jack Hibbs and Rob McCoy
Thank you for listening to this podcast wine production. Now, available on Apple podcasts podcast one spotify and anywhere else you get your podcast. Hey everybody. Today, we are joined by Pastor Jack Cubes and Pastor. Rob McCoy two amazing pastors that love our country love the Kingdom of God and are honestly under huge attack right now persecution you can email me freedom at Charlie Kirk. Dot. com, all your questions. Thank you for supporting our program to be advertiser free on the weekend at Charlie Kirk Dot com slash support but just As I am doing this podcast, both these pastors are being threatened with the rest and the entire Church being shutting down because they're saying wide open email, US, freedom, Charlie Kirk dot com, prematurely, Kirk Dot Com buckle up Jacob's Rob McCoy are here. Here we go. Charlie. What you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus won't you know we are lucky to have charlie? Charlie kirks running the white. House folks. I WANNA. Thank jollies an incredible guy, his spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building. One of the most powerful youth organisations ever created turning point. USA? Not Embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this special episode of the Charlie Kirk. Show this is duo a combo that is legendary. Boy. Pastor, around McCoy pastor. Jack, hibs. To Heroes of mine heroes for our country heroes in. California. I got to know both before all this nonsense in our country started and these two men have their churches totally open. Fighting City government rob you never closed well, we did for. Like a week that's and Pastor Jack you did a small interval. Then you guys both opened and I had to apologize to the church young even doing that I felt bad about two and now you guys remain open and defiant against governor newsom. Yep. And whatever you're. Doing. Survey rock well I I would say especially Jackie prior in the same boat that when we were closed, we didn't know the severity of the covid nineteen at the time we are still processing the date at least for us. As soon as we saw that this was a scam. DEMOC. We opened and the non essential designation by Governor that was it I mean you cannabis essential and you make Bicycle repair shops and liquor stores essential and violator. First. Amendment at that. Yeah. So we're doing our churches blended through the roof. Bigger than ever bigger than tripled yet same fourteen thousand people Sunday San. You probably had a two hundred percent increase, right? Well, yeah. A tenth of history. So you had fourteen, thousand, one, fourteen, hundred. Listen it's the amount of conversions people come comfort people people walking in the front door starting to cry because they said, it was precious. We're home and these are people that some of them have never been here before and they're saying we're home because we sense God one woman said it. So perfectly, she is a nurse or husband is an LAPD and she says she was very emotional and she said I, said, are you okay she goes I'm more than okay. She said because this is the first. First. Taste of normal that we've had in months does my soul and my mind. Good Amen. So yeah, there are pastors that. are remaining closed. And they are committed to it. And they're saying this is dividing the body. What do you have to save Y- Jack them rough I I wanna I wanna cut those guys a big slice of grace by saying this whoever those pastors are. It is possible that they are an elder run church maybe the pastor doesn't have any say that's true. It's possible or there are they are the head pastor and and they are using things like. We can't open up because somebody could get sick. I would say someone is going to get sick if it's cancer it stroke. LISTEN WE'RE NOT GONNA prevent anything in the sense of people getting sick people get sick every day. All of a sudden nobody can get sick and nobody can die. We don't want to. Do Anything to harm people right my argument is this. On the pastor of this church. I know how to love our people more than the governor knows deliver people I want their welfare better than he does. The problem with his argument is there's no science to his argument it's changing by the day. and. Yet, we've been meeting for what ten weeks eleven weeks and it's just continuing to grow and we've had no reports of sickness. We asked people to stay home if they're sick if there's we say if you're sick, don't come right but we've given every Opportunity Charlie you know you walked around the campus for people experienced church bowl kinds of ways I know this I've spoke both churches now multiple times. Thank you. You guys are the few pastors in the country that dared to associate yourself with me. Thank you. Come on. It's true. Thought a pastor. They don't know yet jay run for the hills they don't. Rob You offer radio if people want to sit in the parking lot livestream if they can if they want to be I, think you have a forum where they can be socially distance or they say obviously Jack You have feel that they want to be socially distance outside jumbotron right field. So if they want the normal, they can do the normal if they want to stay at home they if they want to be in the parking lot. So there's almost like a menu of options absolutely same with you right freedom it's called freedom and what I find. So in my own opinion frustrating and repulsive on how some of these pastors have handled this rub is these pastors are treating their congregants like infants no. Yes. While said and saying, we know what's best for you. We're GONNA shut it all down because you don't know how to make informed choices. What's been your experience with Staying Open I think with the the passers at are closed and I'm GonNa take I'm GonNa take the direction jackass because I love hopes all things and I think especially for some of these passers whatever information they're getting that's causing them to make the decision they're making is not correct. when when we've had doctors on our livestream, we've had psychologists on our livestream when we've looked at the data and what's interesting is anything that's contrary to the narrative set by the governor is immediately censored and that you say you know all medical professionals are in agreement will those are the medical professionals at you allow on on on social media and then you censor the ones that have a contract, but you look at the data and this thing has a ninety nine percent survival rate with anyone. Who has contracted it right and go that we know of and it's actually higher. But just because cases are going up hostels, ations and Endesa are going down it this this is not worthy and you don't quarantine the healthy first time in American hidden in American history. So when they tell us that we're not essential, this is an ideological battle and pastors have to awaken that to that I don't think they know that Charlie I really just want to believe that love hopes things they just don't know it. And they need to awaken to it and and they need to step up. Yeah absolutely. True. The. Shirley, night talked earlier just in our conversations of life beforehand and things where it makes people feel comfortable to say politicians say this is essential. This is non essential. You said it in California, you can't have church and you can't sing out loud. You can't pray out loud but you can go down the street and have an abortion but. You can burn buildings in March and be well and I. Think. Here's the broader question. You know we've said churches essential mean is salvation essential. Yes why the church is not either at the church is an essential and it's not non essential. The church is transcendent in can't even put in this category that I I would add jack is not being rebellious and either my we are being obedient. That's right. We are commanded to not forsake fellowship with the saints we are commanded. Oh. But we're Allah Shit but no rub see you. You're a bad guy because you didn't obey Romans Thirteen. You see that's a good one I love that you brought that up. That's why I brought it he. TEED IT UP? Yeah. Okay. Let's look at Romans. Thirteen. Weeks okay that you're to obey all all positions of authority. They're appointed by God full agreement to that I agree absolutely, and that that their ministers of justice execute wrath on those who do to carry the sword. So they've got authority. And I get that. But there there are good and let's not forget this the beauty of America two hundred and forty four years under this atrocity. The Authority in America's down in the first three words of the preamble. We the people worthy. The Authority. They governed by our consent and they're constrained by the seven articles that constitution and when they don't abide by that it is our right and or duty to push back right now rob Jack so I am a being thirteen. Say here were you some pastor? Say we never should have dissolved from King George in the first place? Will then go to England. Seriously go to England but even those passers that are doing that are now standing in order to be philosophically consistent, they should go to Rome because the the people from the northern part of England should never have pushed back against. Roman, aggression here's a win win in an age in which we're in right now. Okay. We all were Bible. Students were studying the Bible we see what's happening in our day. When would be what would be the event that causes a pastor to throw off the yoke of? Of. Political encroachment and say now that's the hill I'm GONNA stand. So if you can't stand for this little bump in the Road Yep. Charlie. Check I was just GonNa say the best point is every pastor should have to answer what is your line then right so I mean, if it's not now than give us a set of circumstances be very specific of what your linemates. I have. One question for pastors who would state something like that. Should Rosa parks have gotten to the back of the bus? Wow. Was was, Reverend Dr, Martin, Luther King Wrong in in in fighting for civil rights. Was the abolition of slavery in pushing I mean we or Corrie ten boom under. Dollars Yeah yeah or then eight then what about Rahab protecting the two spies? Yeah. You can't use it. It just doesn't work that way that's convenience to stay within the realm and I understand that there's it. The body of Christ influences government but we're not dominion. It's not a theocracy goodness. No, and we've Been Delta means a lot of listeners have never heard these. Okay. Three million in prevent. For example, I've been A. You know people make comments that you use the seven mountains of cultural influences and and I pointed out to the folks who said that you'd comment that I said I'm the one who fed him that he he's not a dominion speaking of you Charlie. When when I comment on the seven mountains of cultural influence, I'm using it from a psychological perspective is dominion to a dominion. Est. is this idea that we are ushering in God's kingdom on the earth and there's a lot of people that hold that they. Do. Not, why do we not hold that? You would the reason why we don't and you don't. Have that conversation with the reason why we don't hold to that view is because we're a pluralistic society. An in this nation of a constitutional. Republic. Especially, with relations three, it says at the law is a Guardian Point is to Christ and say that schoolmaster and tell faith comes. In the meantime, we build these we build these laws. He civil laws to protect mankind because it's the laws of nature nature's God but there there isn't this one. Theocracy where we have people have to come to this realization. This choice Yep off listen patriotism is something that I could argue scout in the Scripture Dominion Ism is patriotism on steroids. It's illogical. It's where we're going to make a either a church or or of a nation ripe and ready, and so good that then Jesus can come back when we make it good. When in reality is. Sure was the salt and light of a decaying culture know from scripture. is going to decay but does that mean we quit no because there are events in culture like America like the founding of the United States or for that matter the. The holding back of God's judgement promised against Niniveh. Why didn't God smack down like you said through Jona they repented and so God reserves the right to pull back and he did that with none of forty years later judgment came. What we do is we are taking the word of God looking for Jesus any day but until he comes, we're going to occupy till. He comes says the Bible and Christ brings the Kingdom. We don't create it and then make it where it's a happy world for him to arrive and faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word about. So our primary calling people think that we're all about politics but for Jack and I are primary calling is rightly fight executive said that McCarty. You we always teach the Bible verse by Verse Shepherds After, book this is what Charlie said in the car if we listen if we pastors do not understand. The workings and the politics of the nation that he has placed this end. Then we are ripe to lose the freedoms to preach the gospel a perfect example that black lives matter. They have zeal. Nobody wants racism nobody wants prejudice in their church. We endeavour to keep the spirit, the bond of peace. If anyone is being abused because of the content of the Melanin of their skin and that exists we want that ended the try that's wrong. But but to think that you're somehow contributing to the end of that prejudice and racism by a black tile or sending money into black lives matter zeal without knowledge is foolishness you need to study realize black lives matters of Marxist organization. It's black lives matter. INC recalled L. because we never want to say something negative about a statement that has obsessive. We I'm very I go out of my Way Ever since we said it, their favorability has Gone Down Twenty points finish rob we we believe black lives matter and all black lives matter and isn't matter of fact you take the black American population at thirteen percent divide that in half male and female six and a half percent take it down to childbearing years on the for for black females. That's. Conservatively four percent four percent of the population is responsible for forty percent of the the abortions yet planned parenthood support M. Inc, and be a lemming supports planned parenthood, and it's a Holocaust on the black community. There needs to be outraged and in the passers at are putting up those black tiles thinking that they're saging guilty need to stand in opposition to abortion. Rob I said something to the same effect couple of weeks ago. I went out into the courtyard degree people after service and there was a beeline. Of Black individuals coming to me. Hugging. Me Kissing me no social distancing at all to say to me. Thank you for what you said today about INC because they have pimped listen they have pimped my ethnicity and they are destroying my culture. They're qualified to say that to be honest with you I have zero respect. For, a white guy telling me. About, Bill INC or or. True black lives matter. But they're not talking about the real truth about black lives matter they WanNa talk about INC and they're completely not qualified talk about it, and that's where that's where we pastors. We can have zeal without knowledge. It's foolishness we've got to study to know these things in the scriptures whatever things are true. We saw just about the Gospel. I just preach the word you need to know the culture round you you. You need to understand these things. I could argue rob that just preaching the Gospel is not enough because you need to endorse your people. After you have preached the Gospel. To now go do the Gospel, it's not good to be a student a here. Only I think the Bible has something to say about that I'm Gonna I'm GonNa jump on that one. So I, get this all the time. I. Know You do too. I Hate I don't I don't do politics is I'm all about the Gospel as Oh somehow you and I are you're not and when we say the Gospel, if I were to boil it down and ask them that they would they would quote efficient to your saved by grace your faith it's a gift of God not of works a steady man should boast, and then it goes. If you believe in your heart confessor, their tongue Jesus is Lord you will be saved glory of the father if that's you raise your hand. God. Bless you in hugh professor God. Bless your hand. We do that. We throw the men out amen. Okay. I'm ANSA missing some elements that I would reach, but but I Were there. I'm limited on time. Book. And we recognize that we're centers and we need to be so were saved by grace your faith and we respond to that. Okay. Salvation by grace didn't happen in a Fijian's to his back in Genesis fifteen where Abraham God, who was a credit him as righteousness. So. We've got it in both places. So the question is, why did God gives the law four, hundred, thirty years later that's right because three to five million. Jews one slavery. Liberties not man's idea. It's God's is they cried out to God Senate Deliver Ten Plagues Red seas parted their food provided everyday water the closed on wear out Moses on Mount Sinai gets downloaded more lap five commandments relationship God five commandments relation with each other down entire community is in debauchery. He puts the moral law in the center of the community and for forty years they live without a police force or a standing army. That is why God brought the law and then Paul pointed out. In Galatian it's three and then five we stand faster for the Liberty Forge. Crisis Frey. The Gospel the Lord says not to make converts, but disciples make disciples and disciples change the world but you just Charlie this is your show, right? 'CAUSE I just work A. This is this is rob hit the nail on the head regarding what is Church these days? Just because we lead somebody to Christ, doesn't mean that we're making any headway because number one, we could bring a baby into the world and not feed the baby on starve the baby salvations one step it's the first step to the discipleship process, which is the rest of your life you're saved in an instant, but the rest of your life you walk in and. Let let me tell you what ends up happening. I grew up in suburbs of Chicago. When some of the largest churches on the planet went to a Christian school fourth sixth grade then went to a public school, and so I'm very familiar with cattle. Cull Christianity is what I kind of call it where do the cattle call once every couple of weeks come forward. When it's happening and I've tracked these people throughout the years. Some of them I know that went and did that is that there is a question process that happens in sets in about four to six weeks after the catapult conversion rates commonly do the thing on Easter or Christmas or whenever they do the big deal they all of a sudden startling kate love they get excited. They read the Bible in the morning they told their friends about it. Right they start. Wearing Christian t shirts, and then something happens a friend interaction something less than desirable suffering comes across or inevitably a societal question comes across their radar, which which the one that is probably go to college. What would they go to college or whatever it might is about, but it might not even be a young person be someone their fifties or sixties and they go seek out there pastor and go to the pastor and they say, Hey, look Palatine high school in Chicago. This is a true story. There's a there's a boy who thinks he's a girl and he suing to be able to go into the girls locker room and. I I did the whole Cattle Call I love Christ. Now, am I listen to Kayla and I know all the all the lyrics like all of them you know the goodness of God and everything right? It is it okay. If the boy goes into the girls locker room, 'cause is that Chrysler I want to be loving and forgiving real questions by the way legitimate questions and you know what the Pastor said in my local church. We don't get involved and stuff like that. Let's pray on it and so people but here's an happening. Knows that person that's asked him the questions Okay all right. The nickelback kind of think about me pray about it within months disconnect as they will because all of a sudden the tough things which church in the Bible or supposed to be able to answer. They have no interest in engaging in that. It's the opposite of relations. Three circulations threes at truth with the inverse is also true where it's lost a schoolteacher to Christ but the lack of any sort of. Interpretation of things that make sense in a very chaotic world people disengaged from Christ. So it's also I think can retract you away from Christ, not not ready to believe what you just said is true but rob, we've got Peter telling us that we should be able to give an answer to that. Now maybe wrong about what I'm about to say but don't don't crack me because I believe it. Okay if the Bible says that we ought to be able to progressive. Truth post modernist French garbage exactly. So watch this if the Bible says that we should be able to give an answer to every man who asked us if we believe that this doctrine of predestination is based upon God's foreknowledge. then. God can't learn anything nothing's going to happen without his. Knowledge having said that. I believe from scripture that what you just said is so true. Were the ones that are to give the answers to people. If we don't know the answer, we should find it because God's provided the answer I believe in some. Some way that this is kind of rigged I don't mean I don't mean in the sense of of a negative way, but if somebody calls and ask a question. And I don't know the answer bad on me because the Bible has the answer. Well, especially, every issue of life, the Bible, and especially, it makes especially in in the one piece of life that can. Complete I agree with all that the want these lights can be very turbulent, very uncomfortable, very heated, very emotive. Sometimes pathological is politics and governance. It's understandable because you everyone thinks they're right and everyone thinks that they want to go to the right direction and so the church is disengage because like well, that's too controversial. We'd never made sense to me because I went to somebody's megachurches growing up and they would have fire and brimstone speech about how hells a real place and people are screaming and dying. That's really intense, but you won't talk about. Abortion. Do. They really believe the. unafraid to tell people are GONNA burn forever. But perfectly, one final point on this does that people want clarity in all things in Christ brings forth clarity right? 'cause truth brings clarity truth in your direction truth in your choices and it confused society is one that will not embrace Christ confusion as a tool of Satan it's it's one of his most. Effective tools is confusion gender confusion, societal confusion, cultural confusion. He wrote the book write historical Confusion Right I it but Christ is clarity. Is Christ as truth? Love the the point is that when people don't have clarity on something that affects them materially sociologically psychologically and philosophically, and we are told that's a no go zone. They're like, wait a but I I don't get it. There's all these yard signs in my in my neighbor trying to tell the church doesn't have anything to say about this how you're trying to tell me that no clarity when it comes to when my property tax bill keeps on going up swipe through sacrifice my tie. My daughter has to shower with a man and you're trying to tell me that the church has no claritin didn't pull till Rub McCoy that the pillar in the ground of truth is found where in the church hurt. I. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA use this that we're both Chapel Pastors Catholic Chapel depending on whose history read started nineteen sixty eight chuck breaks away from the Foursquare Church. Nineteen sixty eight California. Reagan's governor. We had the fifth largest GDP on the face of the earth. It's the state of the future. Air Forces setting appear to space programs? I, mean it's unbelievable. You and I were born here. My, my father, my grandfather military it's it's the state. Chuck comes in and Sixty Eight. Now, what happened sixty eight reverend Dr Martin Luther King Junior was shot. Bobby Kennedy was shot. John can be shot and sixty three. We would have the rely massacre following year. We'd have the Kent State shootings we have Marxism infiltrating the nation. There is political turmoil all of the people the young people had put their hopes and dreams on have been assassinated. And the nation's in a meltdown and my father to three towards Vietnam. I. Remember him coming through Lindbergh field getting spit on I remember being at the Washington Monument. It's or thrown stuff at us with all the the hippie movement. And Chuck comes out and sixty eight, and he sees all these disenfranchise young people as a church is imploding people are checking into Western religions and. Trying to find themselves with drugs and everything, and so in the course of this. Chuck figures I'm just going to avoid politics. I'm just going to teach the Bible verse by Verse Chapter by Chapter Book By book faith comes from hearing hearing from the word of God, and his word doesn't return void a good approach that and at that tied, it makes a totally totally get it and none of those none of those hippies would have come in had been political and he gives them a systematic study of the scripture, sixty six books, and by the time he left this earth you talk through the entirety of the Bible. Many many many many many many times. From that simple. Calvary Chapel experiences ten thousand percent growth south of Van is, which is just about where I am south of analyzers three hundred, fifty calvary chapels, cavill sandbox. And there's eighteen hundred plus or minus around the world. We've got the harvest Crusades with Greg Laurie before he decided to leave the calories but still affiliated with somebody loves you. With. Gregoire with. Reese, evangelism, we're pre-trade pre millennial. The House is on fire. We gotta get kids out and and they're coming to Christ in droves. But. Chuck Avoids Politics. And all of us do. I you and I know but we everyone. But here we are what? Fifty, fifty, two years into this movement. And how is how is the ten thousand percent conversion, and that's that's conversion with transfer growth. How is that ten? Thousand Percent Growth affected the state? No longer, the fifth largest GDP where the six, we have the highest gas tax sales tax income tax, corporate tax we lead the nation in poverty homelessness pornography filming capital filming. Capital World. Here's here's the kicker authors of no fault divorce transgender bathroom bills, and the biggest of all, we've aborted more children in the state of California, the entire population of. Where's The power of the Gospel? We don't do politics. No, we don't do politics but died at home but Poe but Aristotle said the highest form of community is politics because it's morality and sociability and got pointed out in the new covenant. How do we get along well in the Bible speaks to everything. Rub You just said, we know it's fundamental at Sunday school stuff. Let Your light. So this little light of mine I'M GONNA. Let it shine oh no, no no, you're not. You're only gonNA shine it on Sunday and you might shine it on mid week service but you don't shut it on. Monday you don't shine at work and that's the problem. Where did Jesus say excuse me don't shine your light over there. No it's everywhere and we have dropped the ball on everywhere shining the light. And then Jesus says in the sermon on the Mount. That you're the salt of the earth. If salt loses, it's flavor it's thrown out trampled underfoot good for nothing. Any Roman soldier hearing the sermon on the Mount, which we the word salary sow Sawyer worth your weight in salt they knew as a currency. If you don't know the currency in each of these areas. You're GONNA be trampled. Underfoot. As a pastor, the currency for us in in the mountain of religion is. Or. The salary of the currency is truth that's right in politics which passers don't understand but I do because I've run four times won three races on baton seven fifty I can make in the major leagues. The currency in politics is one thing. Winning elections. You don't move the needle without winning election, and if you look at me and said, I can't vote for someone three times twice divorced. That's moral potiskum. And I look at you and I say fine but you're irrelevant to me as a politician. Your irrelevant, we're not voting for pastor and chief, but commander and chief well, I can't vote for that immoral man and I say, okay. Then takes Samson out of the hall of. Faith. Or David Yeah I can't well I. Say Samsung can't teach him in Sunday school. I can't find anything really moral about. He's prostitutes, but all night in the spirit Lord comes upon them. That's like mind blowing I. Where's Eva's mouth was find that woman is. Home schooled in in one of only two only one a to unborn children prophesied to deliver people Jesus and GM. Sin. Samson we we start we fail to communicate to. Christians that were were not voting for a president I think that's very deceiving. Way, to, look at it. Instead with President feels very autocratic right? We're we're voting for a government were voting for a movement rewarding for a philosophy, an ideology, an ideology especially more so than ever, it matters far less about the human being that occupies it and much more about the millions of micro decisions that go into either stabilizing or deconstructing an entire civilization. and. So I think this is president trump's pathway to victory is actually articulating. This is that he is nothing more than vessel for People Centered Government at that you might not like my tweets you might not like all this stuff will get over that. Okay. Because I'm a bodyguard for civil society in order for them to get to me, I'm going to guard the door on the bouncer if you. WanNa spit and I'm gonNA say things I shouldn't say but I am the size of a door frame and I can fight and they don't WanNa come after me and I'm going to keep you safe and stable and protect what is righteous and good. I think that's a much better way to communicate it because somebody who I don't like it well I I. I I for one I really really don't like the moral kind of judging game from Christians I, and I talked about this and I think it's the worst extrapolation of kind of the. Parts of calvinism will be honest with you were like I'm elect you're not elected. I'm so much better than you are I. I think the misapplication I'm just gonNA I grew up around those circles did and it drives me it's on. That's the broadcast I noticed come back come back. I. Got it but I'm saying that there's there's a there's a point to how we communicate. Yeah. Well here's the thing too is. So, what ca for the Christian who doesn't engage the culture and vote and get involved? What's IT GONNA take to get them engaged? Is it when their child? Is Messed up by the Strip joint the the pornography store down the street is that what wakes them? What will wake them up? where? They could they put things in compartments I'm not going to get involved in that and I wanna I honestly want to know why do you think that's a good idea. Well. Edges it because you might get dirty they make tainted is Christianity so fragile that it can no longer engage the world around it. Is it so that week? Look maybe for some churches at has been communicated. Yes. In fact it is that week it if you're a pastor. And and you gotTa, do you know book report once a week? And you only thing you have to do is throw the net out that people raise your hand. It that's a lot easier than having to soil yourself by getting involved in the school board and the city council even though the Scripture says, pray for kings and those authority that we would live quiet and peaceable lives in all godliness and reverence, and you ask those pastors and that's a pastoral pistol you ask him can you name your five school board members and five city council members that you pray for by name? And the issues dealing with it, allow your community, your followers. To live quite and peaceful is no godliness and reverence they don't have. They don't know the names. But it, it's too hard to get involved and it's a lot easier just to collect the tithe and have people raise their hand and then feel good that you've been forgive your sins cast as far as ISA's from the West be remembered more, which is precious. But you know. What you were saying, these children are being burdened. But not raised and one an evangelist comes into town and you were talking about. The the Roi of the return on investment and put on an enormous. Program Outreach Evangelistic Program in the stadium. People come forward and follow up after a year a very small percentage of them and I've done this on many occasions in our church I. Say how many of you came to Christ in in in a crusade outreach type of event handful razor hand how many of you came to Christ because someone personally shared with you and walked you through it and the enormity of the room that. Raises. Her hand that's not the dismiss what folks do. That are Vangelis no I I. Well, remember at least this might fan I'm GonNa get in trouble for that Charl- Charlie Rugg in for my family the greatest evangelist has been cancer in my family not again, evangelism were commanded to do it. It's one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit not taking anything away from that. But what we need to realize also as God uses so many different things in the bottom line is that a lot of people come to Christ you talk about those who raise their hands in those you talk to the people I talked do by far have come to Christ because of crises There was some crisis of faith in their life either they didn't have any. Or. They needed some and they came searching. I gotta ask you this because you're fourteen thousand work fourteen hundred, and this is an and it's going to quote on both ends. Crisis. You know WHO's coming to my church now. People who had never darken the church because they're watching their country implode in there in crisis and they have lost their liberty and they wanNA know it source and they WanNa know what to do. That's right. That's evangelism that's absolutely right on and we have answers. Yeah and hope to prove that is that we've needed a bigger net on Sundays because of that truth. Yeah and by the way the people coming forward, I could not engineer this. Wherein a church. If, you could have the perfect world where this. So many of this ethnic group come forward old and young, and this ethnic group old and young, and this old and young and poor and rich cross, the board Ex. Exactly. You could have asked for this and that's exactly what's happening perfect mix white because God moving. It's an awakening cross awakening and the tragedy is some of our passers think if they if they remained silent and they think that they're going to offend someone. and Jesus said I didn't come to bring peace but a sword where to contend against. Against the evil that is enslaving are people it's still true rob. He said those it comes to accepting Christ and then walking on with Christ Jesus said. That there will be mother against daughter. And father against son because of that very reason. Because one wants truth one doesn't. and. So you have that reality but you're exactly correct. We're watching people come there in the midst of a crisis and do believe if pastors would open up. The fishing is fantastic. The the weather is amazing. See Are you nuts? It's in the middle of it. You know it's never been a better time in thirty years of ministry why we're open you know who the greatest evangelists are for liberty that are now darkening the doors of the church. There they would be considered. LEFT OF CENTER There skaters and surfers because their beaches have been closed and their scape barnum and filled with sand, and they're like, wait a minute what once I was able to do this. Now I can't, and that guy's telling me why and I haven't I don't know a single person contract cova or of IT and my entire mind tired joy has been taken. And now they're coming going, what do we do and some of the greatest proponents? For for this movement, contending with the governor are these business owners at started coming to the church in they're saying with these open California rallies that they've asked me to come and speak at they say we will prayer. And they ask you to give an entire opening teaching on what liberty is from the Scriptures and they're hungry. They welcome you I don't even have to ask I. Don't remember when it was. Maybe you do because you're younger and you have a memory. But at some point in time I had asked Charlie Hey, we need to really do something California. We can do this week and shake it up. And I think people like Candice Oh and another sprayers end. He said they'd be of a imagine if we just popped up somewhere. People Are Dying for direction and someone's going to get to them. It's either going to be the agenda of Hollywood or it's going to be steam. Someone's going to get them and we need to get them I. do believe California's redeemable because I'm still breathing what one of the things the church has gotten. So incredibly wrong and I think Mrs stepped. Is I. was told that politics will drive people away from the Church and what I found with our podcast and through turning point, and what we're doing is talk about a moral worldview we have organized thinking we've answers to complex problems than people want to know the source and we're actually bringing people's the glaciers throttle that we talk about and everyone has a different way of coming to Christ but they're actually millions of millions and millions of people out there that. Look at a chaotic world in a broken world. Then you might say something that makes a lot of sense over mentally or philosophically issue. We'll. You seem like you've got your act together. What else do you believe or what does that come from and the churches missing one of the greatest evangelistic opportunities there right now or probably fifteen to twenty million Americans. That would be saved by Christ if the church talked about politics, exactly. So there are fifteen to twenty million souls. That may or may not come to Christ right now in America because the way they were raised and the culture there in just the typical evangelistic music big lights all that doesn't there everyone is made different by got everyone has different interests and like there are people out there I communicate with them they consider themselves to be hyper rational. Right they can. Only I only believe in things that work and the apologetic movement. Lee Strobel has done great work with them. But however, there's also people that are they look a lot more in day to day life. Show me something that works something that I can actually make sense within my own life and when I go to college campus I said, well, there's only two genders. The and some people they'll mind and all that and some people love it. Some people say, wow, I guess you're right I've never heard that so. I know exactly. Where to come up with the? Two genders I never thought I. Am the enemy wants to keep his on the four walls of the church. They don't want us to have an influence in the universities. An instant point where we just allow them to push and witless down and were just here and and were arguing over an ever decreasing piece of the Pie. And God says no get out there. It contend for truth if you were Satan himself in, you looked at the landscape of this world. What threatens you if you're. Satan. Is it politics I think Satan's pretty terrified of politics fall into the wrong hands the good hands. Is it is it media he's got that. The cheer he's not threatened by the Church and the church used to be eight terrorizing force of the Kingdom of help. The church used to cause hell to tremble when it prayed other prayer meetings anymore. What you mentioned the Gospel earlier you got people going in and out of the church they can't even tell you what it is that they believe in. So how can you be saved if you cannot tell me the gospel. I've been a pastor for almost thirty years. And I have stood behind that wooden box and I have preached the the entirety of the Gospels, all sixty, six books in entirety. And when you get to passage, which says, you'll be persecuted reviled bluster you from my namesake, right? I've read that I'm never faced it. Until I stepped into politics. That passage never meant more to me when I stepped into politics and ran for the semi Mike Mike Car Keyed I got death threats windows were broken. They sued me, I was pursued followed. Inundated. With. Obliterating Mail my own party came after me I saw the worst of humanity I was betrayed I mean, it was awful. We went through and the and I've never felt closer to the Lord more prayerful and saw people's lives inspired and moved. then. When I stepped into the into the Public Square. Satan was never concerned about me being behind that wooden box as the walls were closing in on me rob I gotTa tell you the Christians the real Christians I know in Washington DC and in Sacramento? Their stories exactly that story and I gotTA. Tell you. There's there's men women in in DC that I know that I admire them so much because I couldn't take kind of heat they love the Lord and they love this country and they love what's right and they're doing something about it. If it costs them their lives, they die every day and I am blown away by them. I would love to see that more in the American. Western. Church. You know what's killing him though in the reason why we're losing more and more representation in a constitutional republic is because the the lack of proper teaching from the pulpits, how to operate in legislation that you win by increments and the and because they're single issue and they're not broad understanding of how to move the needle the minute one of these conservatives votes in CAPAC- they don't like not understanding all the dynamics of what they're up against the immediately. Them we eat our own and then we people left abandoned and the church doesn't support him. They don't they don't go out and and walk precincts for them. They won't even let them come and let them pray over them in the services. I think it was Walter Martin who said the critic Walter Martin now I'm going way back. That was back with cruise listeners was a corporate. He was the father of the apologetic movement of Modern Day. Wilder. Martin said as I look around I, see the Christian. Church is the only one that shoots its wounded. Yup that's got to change. But. Right. Now, a lot of a lot of pastors hide behind government orders with zeal and a passion that I'd like to see for the Bible all of a sudden you know we've got to obey we've got to obey the president or we've got to obey the governor. We've got to invade the mayor when. I'd I'd love to see that commitment to obey I. Mean. I. I have this question a lot for Christians and obedience to convenience. Yeah, I don't. I don't live Christians have struggled from thirteen dull. So. Let me just give you let. Let me just ask the CEO. Bible believing Christian like Joseph Bartering Anco. Bondarenko Monitoring I was mispronounce. Evangelists in Russia and did he did he was he doing what the Bible told to do he was daily to Soviet law everyday absolutely. Sorry better. Yet let me let's let's pretend that one of his converts which he had many and disciples who was in the Soviet government. They go optima say I need you to go to that village and go shoot ten percent because I time. Go take your gun and go shoot ten percent of the village. If you go do that are you doing what? God wants you to do? So I find. No. Doesn't really I it doesn't confuse me Christians. Scripture sausage for our good. They're therefore are good. So the the decree or suggestions made from the halls of power no more church. So we we must obey the so we're not going to church anymore. So. Even though Jesus said behold I've sit before you an open door. I firmly believe that pastors don't have the authority to close the doors of their church just my conviction I think back at a biblically that sends stand with you when you say all your your defined, the government tell that. To the Church in Vietnam who meets in secret is because they're getting tons cut off so that they don't kill them. They just cut their tongues off so they can't speak but they meet anyway. Tell that to the church that meets underground on North, Korea or Saudi. Arabia or. It's illegal punishable by death. They meet anyway to tell me that you're going to tell them. You're disobeying your government. Some would some Christian said at your disobeying Romans Thirteen Stop Media. Just have a that's the extrapolation of their current argument trying to de-legitimize you. Will I wonder? I wonder about that the. They're welcome to hold that position because they live in a pluralistic society where they have that freedom, you have the right to be wrong they have the. Liberty to be that fool. That for two hundred, forty, four years have been fighting for that and they they get to hold those views. And have the First Amendment to be able to do that. And if you're pacifists people fought so that you could be a pacifist. Really convenient it's true. Yet is what kind of what kind of governments never happened before where the founders are either a Christian or they know about the Christian life and they come to an agreement where it fits the government that they're going to hand you fits for the most ardent believer and the most ardent atheist everybody gets the same rights that's never happened before why they were comfortable in their faith view. Their worldview was good with them to the point where hey, you're an atheist you can have the same rights that we do. We're not threatened by that. What was it wasn't it? When Bob McEwen And you look at four percent of the population. We been here for two hundred, forty, four years we represent four percent of population. But because of the freedom we've been given this form of government designed with a creator in mind. And understanding that that man is an eight sinful and you have to separate the powers because power wants to concentrate and pushes it down to the individual to have that relationship with God complete freedom like they had in the Wilderness Ten ten commandments. Simplest as possible and government was to be limited. And because of that freedom, you have skyscrapers around the world because an American invented the elevator you have buildings in the desert because an American. Invented air conditioning. You have the Internet because an American invented it you can fly there because American invented the. You can go on and on and on because of this freedom. and. Then you say, well, no, you know social socialism is more like Jesus Woah I'm sorry what that's a violation to the ten commandments shall not steal national covid. You're not doing your homework pastor. Dig into this stuff. Go beyond your myopic view and do something in a greater capacity for your people are they. Are, Charlie. Are they that naive or is it that? Likes. have become more important. It's the social pressure of. An, my liked and Jesus. warned us about this. He warned US beware when all men speak well of you. You went through this personally Charlie with which time with the pastor, a member with the pastor that came out against you on social media because. I don't see any names their. Big. Pastor. Came out against me even though he liked me once and decided he didn't like me as soon as he got called out for the fact, he liked me. But off we all watched that happen. That's Okay I. Honestly I'm so at peace with it, he's the one that I think is having to pay a price for being a coward but yeah, look what what is it? Yes I think I think it's a couple of things number one they're poorly staffed. Is the first. Problem. I think that these churches are poorly staffed and they hire these young. Incredibly, naive social media driven Christians that went to either Wheaton Calvin or Taylor, and they do nothing but economics American history or culture, and they were the skinny jeans. No offense to that. We're skinny jeans and on right now I know but they they staff them all throughout their church and like a virus it spreads and as the first problem number two, I think that they. Didn't do it. You an rob did for decades leading up to this moment and at Least Inc American first principles into their you know teaching throughout the last couple of decades to their congregation has been completely unaware of how to interact with any of these. There's a lot to be said for what you just said because for me personally noticing for you is for me I spent. I spent decades in the secular world working for corporations. That vet preparation was fantastic for. Church ministry life yes and I learned early on from Heaven Marine? Corps dead you. Don't work son you don't eat. That's right. Well, my goodness my dad was not a Bible believing man until. Week before he died but that's run out of the Bible if a man does not work neither shall he? Yes. So well, some of these pastors look they they entertain. Of Fairy Dangerous. Version of Thomas more's. Utopia. where? Maybe, we can have heaven on earth. There's nothing biblical about this. We can get really close to hell on earth I mean we really can't. We don't know how close but we can get in that direction. Let's put it that way. Just go to the Soviet. Union. You just abolish villages and people started anything what how inhumane it is if someone starves to death notice that is weeks of crying out in suffering I mean starving to death is a torturous ways you can kill somebody forty, million people died of starvation. Soviet Union in a decade, which is not an uncommon thing in communist China Today we'll know and so you study again the past I. I struggle with this because they should know better they should they don't and they're weakened or cowardly, and I don't give them excuses anymore I don't. They decide they do not want to know. And they are ideologues more than they're actually in the pursuit of truth if you are really defending the ideas of Marxist Leninism after what we have documented this is no longer theory is no longer some fun crash, right? It's no longer is no longer like a coffee shop actress on your complicit it just isn't not now either. Actually. So naive should resign as a pastor that you should absolutely because you are not in a position to guide people at all or you know better and you are doing the, you're carrying the water for the enemy because they're if you look at where Satan wants what ideologists Satan actually want to see grow, she wants to see a belief in no God because that is one of the greatest things you could possibly accomplish each carried more water for Satan than anyone could possibly imagine saying God is dead right and. There's a lot of different ways you can skew pass that but secondly, I think that niche. Satan, what is a huge advocate in in almost the evangelistic position of secular nihilistic humanism absolutely and I mean. So absolutely believe in nothing nothing matters. All that really matters is yourself indulgences The government is just and look at Peo. DOLGIN. That look at people today who indulge in their choice they're pleasure they're they're almost automaton like that's rather almost catatonic. They are unplugged. There is no reality to them. They haven't sweat haven't suffered people look isn't something we need to learn how to suffer. We need to learn how to eat look maybe the economy is GonNa go that way. But the way where the whole thing's going. Here's one of the things you and I are going to talk about in just a moment, which is the what we're supposed to do for maturing people are soon to be maturing people is thought to remove the CO remove the dangerous from the Jungle Tanta removed the jungle at all, and then put them in a safe box, and this is what I'm saying right now. Should he so incredibly self evident that it doesn't need to be said but workplace where needs to be said where someone? Seventeen eighteen you shouldn't try to create an environment that is easier, even more relaxing or more comfortable for them. First of all, that is immoral unrealistic dangerous, and it actually is societally suicidal should do is try to make that person the strongest possible person you can to be able to encounter the suffering endured the suffering be able to have an aim said they can get through those moments and they can almost have her roic journey through. It said, they can understand that the suffering is inevitable. And I'm now stronger person university has the exact opposite. The university actually tries to say you know what? The suffering is not inevitable. It's not what's wrong is the society. So let's try to remove all the different systems of suffering Mrs anti-biblical anti-god antichrist's all right zander. Christian. They. Coddle them they wrap them in bubble, wrap summit on them, and then have them go out when parents do this to. Parents do this too and I talked about the Salat and parents. have way over pandered to their kids they helicopter them, they do them a disservice, and then we wonder why they're twenty years old and they cannot hear an opinion. They don't like without screaming belligerently and so to finish the point you then you now have an entire generation of Christian pastors that have been raised in this entire world where they have been deceptively taught. A. Very careful way I saved us let's just say a false intersection of the Bible and Marxist doctrine. And I know these documents very well I know it drives these people and. There is a part I think it's my first or second Peter About beware of false prophets. News is Second Peter Chapter two and three I can't think of a better. Example of that. If you read the book, the Gift of pain and it was written by Dr Dealt with all the lepers. Missing Book No I have not. So he says that that if you WANNA live in a world where there's no pain. Good Olympic colony the right there on because Hansen's disease takes away all fear on them and they don't they don't die from from. the disease itself would they die of his infection because they don't know when they're stepping on a nail or burning their hand because pain is gone trae and they're they're just rotting and so when we take away this gift from God of pain in a fallen world to show us that we're not doing what we're supposed to be doing. And and we and it's what air still calls the doing good and feeling good feeling good is you look at someone who's struggling with with bondage to heroin and the feeling good thing is to give them more heroin. The do good is to take it away from them. No let's give them needles and now you've got all these walking zombies. That they're feeling no pain but they're going nowhere in life and they're they're they're nodding in the streets and defecating themselves and we call that good government. That's awful. We're responsible for what we're doing to these citizens. And you don't enable them. Amanda. Doesn't doesn't care for his family you have consequences you have responsibility. There is there's a you must work. This is what we're supposed to do on this earth God. made us that way the self worth invite how many kids would be lifted up out of depression if they if they actually worked if they had chores if they sweat and I mean sweat actual sweat working and had to get. A callus. A callous on your hands. Yes. Is a great thing and and so I'm GONNA do not seem to lab at the service here but he wrote in a phenomenal book called Anti Fragile and I never liked the title I still don't I. Think it doesn't do service to help phenomenal the analysis that he puts forward or he frames that most of the world is fragile and the only word he could think of that would be the opposite. Of Fragility would be anti fragile and his argument is that things that are anti fragile survive and they get stronger and they have meaning and responsibility whereas most of society tries to create a hyperextension of fragility and if you're able to actually be anti fragile by the greatest generation was no matter what you throw at me we are going to survive no matter what it is no matter what two World Wars Fine Great Depression bring it on. Korean War. After that one, we're good and so there is an acceptance of the toughness that sets in the dried. There's a mentality of will don't lessen the pressure's on my shoulders. Let's get my shoulder stronger. So I can be able to endure that even better and we have done such an incredible disservice two generations now and I think for Christians as well. It's that what? What? What pastor does embed teaching to church. It's what a parent does. Do a kid when it's like my child would never. Not, my child if the kid comes home and says, you know what? This would happen men arm about you guys. But when I I I didn't WanNa come home and my parents what happened because the I thought from my dad was would you do? You're dead was patriotic. He lay down striped t stars. Also there's a there's a much deeper point. What you're saying though is that you respected your father because there is discipline in order and hierarchy. Eventually. The maturation process that hierarchy actually. Goes on its face where you actually end up becoming the caregiver for your father and that's biblical. However, what's happened now is we now have entire social media movements that tried to instill. Let's say disintegration for an eight-year-old. The father mother hierarchy rebel against you're not just repeat rebels even the right word. It is almost revolution against your credit revolution against your parents who mortem time in their fourteen year olds that say I hate my parents they're a bunch of racists. The social media companies and they're getting emancipated age fifteen and they're leaving their parents and this is getting glamorized all notes getting glamorized. Matthew's Gospel. Jesus. Actually talked about that. So enclosing Rob Jack before we have to go into the next fun thing that we're doing, what can Christians do if they're stuck in a church that is being led by a coward or by a comment by the way, the next thing that we're going to do we could get arrested great isn't it? Amazing? I mean today today. Yeah. I don't really care some I tweeted it out at this point I'm just like. Your questions what should they had actually want arrest US 'cause they they understand the prince they actually understand martyrdom and they know that if they arrested us that would be. Such an unbelievable mistake yet today, the Church has to be led by pastors who are willing to divorce themselves from. A peer pressure from likability to have an actual vision of passion a calling from God that is worthy of their life when you have a pastor who's dead. Then you're going to find a church that's alive. while. I would take it one step further to at I. Love that Jack That's like just made that up. It's A. Doggone. And good preachers barberie preacher steals on taken that. I I would add this that. In these trying times. When when when I watched men like Jack Others that for me? My biggest struggle Charlie and I wanna say this to all the folks in Christendom. To avoid it being about politics completely. Remember this and never forget this. It's people are not the enemy there the opportunity. So when you stand stand in humility that you're doing it for the people that revile you and despise you and you're standing so that they can protest in that freedom and that's why you're doing it be broken in that regard. This isn't a pride issue. And be willing to give everything up for their freedom even though they despise you for what you're doing. Do It anyways 'cause you love Them These are two American heroes. Everybody Pastor Jack Pastor rob their churches are open their flourishing. They're bringing, people to Christ? And like you said, maybe these mid more and more pastors are coming around on not enough. They was more dig into the wrong direction. That's fine. If you go to a bad church. I should say at church south to said, if you go to a church led by someone who is currently being deceived. I've made the opinion that it's okay to withdraw and find a church that someone is being led by someone company got to good southern California options right here when the largest metropolitan areas in the country. So just leave the church, pull your tides, put it to someone that wants to actually fight for what is good in the World Cheryl. Thank show good things with those who instruct you don't you subsidize people that Are Confusing because you're withdrawal from that, actually might bring them to the right directions. Good were all right. Thank you everybody email us freedom at Charlie Kirk Dot com to metallic Kirk Dot com get involve a turning point USA TEEPEE USA DOT com consider supporting our program Charlie Kirk. DOT, com slash support we do twelve to fourteen podcasts a week help pays for our productions even everything. Thanks much everybody, God bless. Thanks so much for listening everybody please help out Jack and Rob. You can email me freedom a Charlie Kirk Dot com I can give you options on how to help them. We're posting links at Charlie Kirk Dot, com deal to help rob and Jack who are. Being threatened with arrest right here right now please consider getting. VALA TURNING-POINT USA Teepee USA DOT COM CB USA DOT COM. Thank you guys so much for listening God bless.