Wide Receivers and Goodbyes

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Are you troubled by strange hockey trades in the middle of the night. Do you experience feelings of dread about N._H._l.. Free Agency have you or your family ever seen in New York guyland scheme. If the answer's yes don't wait another minute pick up your mobile device and subscribe to Lighthouse Hockey podcasts from espy nation today are courteous and efficient hosts <music> are ready to serve all of your islander needs and worries lighthouse hockey podcasts for New York islanders fans. Hello Welcome to the big review podcast I I am. Dan Pursued a joint here by Chris Flood Chris. How're you doing today? Honestly I'm a little bit sad. I'm a little bit sad and I'll tell everybody why this is Dan's. Last show is leaving us. This is his Swansong Swansong might be able to strong but yes. This is going to be my last official recording of the big blue view podcasts. If some of you might have seen on twitter I have started to write for warning sharps sharp football analysis. That's where I am going to be the season of going to be editing there. I'm going to be writing there. So that is something that is going coming to you. Take a pretty much all of my time so I will be shifting over to that officially. I've been writing there. You might have seen me tweet a couple stories that we've done there. We're so far but starting August first that's that's what I'm going to be doing so I will be ending my tenure at big review both writing on the site and doing this podcast so it just wants you quickly say thank you to everyone. Listening who has been listening since the beginning the first show was me and of Rivers McCowan talking about the Houston Texans game in week three because that was just kind of wear. The podcast was when we could get started. I think Chris wasn't available that week so we didn't officially start this podcast until the second week we were doing it so thank you for everyone who has been listening and has continued can you to listen as we grew from that point and doing all our draft shows and talking draft nonstop and going with us through not an easy season talk about West Year so thank you for everyone who has continued to listen the podcast is going to continue Chris or probably have more information formation on that at a later date. I know that's being worked on so there's going to be a Chris show. Ed is still going to be doing his show so this will still continue in some form. Just yes not with me so it's usually thank you everyone for listening. I would also like to thank Chris for doing this with me twice a week every week for the past what like like almost a year yeah actually yeah close yeah longer than six months probably would have shorter than a year but yeah so that is a news we are going to start at the top with and we are now going to continue with a regularly scheduled show where I think the only thing we can really talk about at this moment when it comes to the giants giants is what is going on at wide receiver you training camp has only been going on for a week and has the giants situation. Ah Wide Receiver changed drastically the first day of Training Camp Sterling Shepherd broke his thumb. He has been out at practice running routes. The one handed catches. He is expected to be back by week one but of course he won't be at full strength until at least week while we don't really know if that's going to it happened and then also later that day Corey Coleman Tours A._C._l.. is going to be out for the entire season and then we've found out over the weekend. Golden Golden Tate is going to be suspended or is facing a suspension for the first four games of the season for violating the N._F._L.'s P._d.. Policy that that was from what Tate said just a fertility drug that you know is an unfortunate thing but I think as we Chris. We talked about this over the weekend about just how rare it is for a case like this to be appealed and be successfully appealed and we were talking about that before we even knew what the situation was at you brought up to me that way free had something similar aware it was a fatuity drug and he appealed and the suspension was still upheld so even though tate was reportedly confident he had a good case a good reasoning. It doesn't seem like a per the N._F._L.'s precedent on subject matters like this that tastes suspension is going to be reversed so we are very likely to see him suspended for the first four dams yeah and the the N._F._l.'s stance on this is basically the players are responsible for what they put in their body and the N._F._l.. Really can't get into case by case judgment establishing any kind of precedent because was even if we do believe Golden Tate which we don't really have any reason not to believe him a lot of the compounds that are in the fertility drugs that trip the P._d.. Tests are also used as either masking agents or in post cycle <unk> therapy for actual eighties or steroids basically to help people who use them get their hormones is back in balance after being thrown way out of whack to supercharge their performance muscle growth or recovery and there are are unfortunately some unscrupulous doctors out there who will just take a check to write a prescription wish. That weren't the case but the N._F._l.. Can't really take a chance on somebody cheating like that getting a fraudulent prescription in saying well yet it it is for fertility and then them saying well okay yeah. That's what the prescription says so hopefully table either have his suspension reduced based or his appeal go his way but I don't think the giants can really plan on that happening and then just with the injury situation losing korey Coleman for the year the giants were hoping he would kind of break out having a full full offseason in their program really actually be able to play up to that first round pedigree sterling shepard breaking his thumb trying to haul in a low pass cost. That's just that's just kind of the giants right there and then Daria Slayton dealing with a hamstring and just all the other things that have happened. It's it's been a long or as a practice yet. The giants have gotten like a season's worth of news in the span of the first week and that's I think significantly going to shape what this offense starts to look like as we head into the rest of training camp and the preseason into the regular season Waikele said shepherd is expected to be healthy and he's targeting week one and the beginning of the regular season to be healthy and be able to be on the field and imitates tate's probably going to miss the first four games so the giants are going to have to figure out how to reassemble what they have at wide receiver when you look down what what is left at the depth chart can't be overly confident with what is there so before I think we get into the wide receivers and who who is left who they could Suspensions in everything happened basically a week ago Ingram and Barclay. were going to be the giants to most explosive players. I don't think there was really going to be anyone who could compete without in terms of just being able to make defenders miss take a pass and if they get a little bit of space turn a short pass into a long gain. Sterling Shepherd is a good reliable receiver. He can pick up yards when he has the chance but he doesn't have that just explosive athleticism to make a move and leave a defender in the dust like those two guys can golden tate is good in screen games. He's good after the catch but again he just doesn't have that same explosiveness that Angelman Barclay do so they might have been able to get a guy with that kind of potential adversaries slayton but again. He's he's a rookie and he's a late round rookie. You don't WanNa put that kind kind of you know. If our offense is going to be explosive you have to do it kid you don't want to put that on a rookie right and the importance of Barclay and Ingram it's going to be evident and I think that is what to watch for now going forward through the remainder of training camp. It's not going to be who stands out of this group at wide receiver. It's are they starting to move Barclay around more which like we said they did lash training camp and then once it got to the regular season that all went away so is Barkley going to be moved around a little more in the next few training camp practices. Are we going to see him lined up in the slot or be going to see him motion out to the outside or we're going to see Evan Ingram in different alignments it could he potentially wind up in the backfield is going to be in the slot more. Is he going to be on the outside more so this past week I was writing this before the injuries and the tate suspension happened. I wrote a post about Evan Ingram about how the giants should kind of go back to school on Evan Ingram and really look at what he did in college and what made him successful in college what made him a first round pick and one of that was using his athletic ability to use them as a mismatch in the passing game. I had two plays that highlighted one was just U._S.. Aid They seem pass right from the slot and he just dominated a smaller defensive back and that's exactly what you want to do and then I have a wheel route he had a wind up as a fullback h back kind but just slightly behind the offensive line and he ran a wheel route from the backfield and it it was just wide open down the sideline and it was there was a bad throw on the plate but it would have been a huge gain. It was still a pretty decent gain on the play so these are just things you could see Ingraham debord and it's something I think now a we would have liked to see him us more. I think now that's something he has to be used more in that way going forward and then went back and looked at the twenty eighteen season Ingram was targeted on only two seem routes to last year and both of the were big successful plays one came earlier in the season against Tampa Bay. We just got an opening against David David and had a huge run after the catch and then one was later in this season against Indianapolis all where he was able to beat Darius Leonard Down the field and and had to adjust a little bit for underthrown ball. If it was thrown a little better it's probably a touchdown but still a big that set the giants up at the goal line but those were the only two zebra out he was targeted on last year and I know some people were going to say oh well the offensive line there was not enough time to I think you're seriously the overestimating how much time it it takes up to set up a system that can just go ten yards down the field. That's all yes it'd be thrown and then when I went and looked at Ingram's usage and how often he was targeted really ten or more yards down the field we fourteen percent of his targets came ten or more yards down the field when you look at guys like you know the Travis Chelsea's Zach Ertz George Kills Kittles. Those guys are all around like thirty percent of their targets happened ten or more yards down the field so if you are going to use Evan Ingram correctly and I think now you have to you need to start using him more creatively in that way yeah absolutely that's like you said that's something we have been harping on for months now and really the giants need to change their tendencies a with both Barclay and Ingram because right right now. They're the guys for this offense and that could be a tremendous advantage for the giants if they allow it to be because was N._F._l.. Defense just are not set up to deal with players like Barkley and Ingram especially those positions the reason the tight end has become a nightmare mismatch of position is because defenses in the middle are either set up to deal with the the run and put seven guys in the box lay downfield play their run fix and deal with blockers which basically means big base packages big linebackers strong strong guys or they play a light package to deal with wide receivers which again there's the whole other side of that conversation with the run game that we have talked about plenty but with tight ends like Erz and Kelsey and especially guys like kindle and Ingram they are way too fast for linebackers is to really cover. I mean you just said he ran right past theories Leonard and he is basically one of the best off ball space linebackers backers in the N._F._l.. And that was as rookie and then when you get defensive backs like he did in college guys like Ingram and cattle are also too big for defensive backs to really effectively cover so you that is just I don't WanNa say it's free yardage but it is a built in mismatch that defense is don't really have a way to deal with and then again with Barclay. He is kind of the same kind of mismatch he is too fast for linebackers he he's too big for defensive backs and playing running back and if the giants would actually throw to him out of the slot defenders these are really going to be able to get their hands on him to disrupt the route and the timing so he's pretty much always going to be getting a free release and if the giants would throw to him down field field in stride he's going to have that many fewer defenders he have to make miss he will already be up to speed which as we have seen is damned damn fast that right now is the way forward for the giants and they could be surprisingly successful running an offense through those two guys problem is they at least tendencies from last year they had absolutely no desire to do so Evan Ingram had the second lowest average depths of target Barkley was targeted behind the line of scrimmage basically all the time the giants have to rethink how they use those two players players just completely from the ground up yeah that's exactly what to watch going forward and if the giants are not starting to figure out how to use Barclay and Ingram better that you have to really wonder what they're thinking offensively and whether this offense is going to progress throughout the season because those those of your two key guys now regardless of how healthy Sterling Shepherd is going to be or what might happen with Golden Gate suspension and even if anyone else in this wide receiver group steps up these are going to be your two guys and if they're not used more creatively or more effectively then you really have to start In Tuesday's I talked to influential people around the world attack like Microsoft founder Bill Gates and other tech execs like founder of lime scooters the C._E._o.. Beyond meat we must have been talking a lot of reporters academics. I'm expect a major pressing policy issues tech like facebook's content moderation doing great youtube harassment plan or lack thereof and whether or not the government rake up Amazon twitch. Maybe it should and then every Friday I sit down with executive editor bone and Paul Miller for chat show we cover the latest in tech news and product reviews agreeing our other reporters around the verge. That show is party party. Listen to it. You can hear all that more. If you subscribe to the virtuous wherever you get your podcast love free to listen and join us so again subscribe to the virtuous wherever you get your podcast. We'll see there okay so we are back so talking about giants wide receivers injuries suspensions. Everything has hit this group. That was not a very it deep group to begin with so let's just run down quickly who is on the giants roster so outside of Golden Tate and sterling shepherd the giants now have Ovando Russell Russell Shepard Bennie Fowler Britain Golden Cody Latimer put them all in a group together those are basically the the veteran options who also are going to contribute on special teams and they are all kind of like the same player they all play the same role. There's nothing outstanding about. They're receiving ability their biggest contributions before this were to have come on special teams and then you have the group of really the three rookies than in Daria slate and who wasn't a fifth round pick and then Reggie white junior undrafted free agent you also Alex Wesley who is currently on the published you start start training camp with an injury us. He has not been on the field yet but you have those three young players and then right now you have Ombu editorial and T._J.. Jones who they mentioned they he just signed in their workout after all the news broke of what was going to be happening with the giants wide receiver group so of those guys Chris. Does anyone really really stand out to you dot particularly now. I'll say we both really liked Ombu at a table last year so it's good to see him back T._J.. Jones is intriguing because he does he does bring some special teams upside which catch you know again. That's not super exciting but they did lose Corey Coleman who was a good kickoff returner and it would it would help the offense out a lot if they can get those hidden yards back Ritchie. Y junior does have intriguing upside athletically but undrafted free agent at monmouth dairy Slayton easy dealing with an injury and really even before all the the injuries are tight suspension. I don't think the giants receiving core was really going to be scaring too. Many secondary's my feeling was they. They might sneak up on a defense that just didn't respect them at all and said you know you know what we will give you the pass we are not going to let saquon Berkeley beat us. They might have some good games if the defense does that but they're not gonNA keep any defensive coordinator up at night so that's kind of where the giants are also you forgot Demari Scott who the giants claimed off of waivers just before camp started yeah you're right okay so add him to the group of young players <hes> in that in that Slayton White Wesley role where maybe maybe one or two or going to come out. I think we'll see I don't think we're GONNA make Rosser projection right now but Daria Slayton likely to make the roster as a fifth round pick and then possibly either white or sky. I I would say probably would be the most likely to like like you said he's he's someone I do like the traitor there even at this point in the off season and and you kind of look at what the giants Rosser has like why not why not let Reggie White get some more reps and see what he can do. I don't see the downside in keeping him over over someone like Ovando Russell Alonzo Russell Russell Shepherd you know what those guys are so so why not allow Reggie white to have some more run with with the offense in training camp and see if he can produce because really you you have nothing to lose at this point but I'll go back to the two guys they he did sign because I think right now they might be there to best receivers outside of Tate and shepherd so I have been very vocally the fan of Ombu editor since before he came out in the drought when I was first doing dress up for bid we've you I was doing some draft. Videos on editor was someone when I highlighted as a late round guy. I liked a lot. He someone target yards added like a lot. which if you've been listening to these podcasts in our draft podcasts especially metric had that separates college wide receiver from their offense and editor came out very well in that nice with the giants he's been on the practice squad? He's bounce around a little bit played in the AF last year but I think he's someone who has has good deep spe- I think he can get open an down the field I think he's a much better route runner than a deep threat label would give him credit for and to go back to last year and we were going in training camp. He had a real good training camp last year for the most part and we were all asked to as a big review staff to make a bold prediction for the twenty eight season have my prediction was that on the editorial finish the season as the giants number three wide receiver so that was a complete swinging Amiss yes. He didn't even make the fifty three coming out of training camp because so that was a huge swing and miss as it bold prediction but you can see 'em high on the editor so I think if he is able to stay healthy which has also been a problem in his career so far if he's able to stay healthy and you can get on the field I think he can he can eat. I mean he's not going to step in and be like a number one and number two but as that guy you could rotate third wide receiver. I think he can be there and then as we move to T._J.. Jones that's kind of been his role also far throughout his career with the lions. He is only twenty seven years old. He's been a productive wide receiver and we got twenty. Six targets last year. Fifteen Games started three but he's a d._v._d.. Way Per football outsiders was didn't qualify for the full list of qualified receivers but of what he had was is going to be around like the thirty third wide receiver by Devi away which is per play efficiency so that's not terrible in twenty seventeen when he had had forty nine targets he was thirty first in Devi away so he does have that ability. He is someone who can also get downfield and the problem is it's. It's another another slot receiver. Another guy who works his best out of the slot in twenty seventeen twenty two of his forty nine targets came from the slot per sports info solutions and fourteen of his twenty six targets last year a came from the slot so he's someone who has done his best work there if he's going to be playing without tate and shepherd than that works you can put someone in there but then if he's your number three once tate and shepherd come back now you do rotating three is is who do their best work from the slot. So that's another potential problem. You can have a come maybe five of but that's getting a little ahead of ourselves but that's just kind of projecting the type hypoc player T._J.. Jones is I think he has some ability. He has shown that he's been a productive receiver so far. He's been more of that number three option but I think those are those are two decent editions. I think especially when you look at the rest of the giants receiving core and when nothing else really pops off off the page so why not give those shot yeah absolutely we pretty much seen what the rest of they're veterans looked like and it was not really exciting. Cody Latimer can win fifty fifty balls down field but the idea it should be that your receivers creating a separation that they don't have to be winning fifty fifty balls then Fowler's kind of the same die Russell Shepard in Lonzo Russell. We'd we've seen them. They've got some size and athletic ability but they're not really the guys so if you're in this position why not just take the chance see see what you have avenue the young players see what you've got in the guy who just brought on. Maybe you can fit the pieces That to us and B. The X. receiver that the giants just don't have on their roster right now or at least they don't have that we can readily see <unk> dairy Slayton can't put that downfield speed to use and forced defenses to take a take a defender out of the tackle box and maybe lighten the load on Saquon Barkley just a little bit because I think we know the giants are not going to stop running Barclay into heavy boxes. It's at the point where you just say Oh. Why not I say give give guys like like Reggie White? The shot not give Darius Slayton a little more. He's been dealing with bit of a hamstring injury so you don't want to push him now because you feel like you have to with the wide receiver situation so you I definitely want to keep him in a controlled environment. You don't WanNa push a hamstring too early in training camp because that's something that could easily winger into the season but <music>. I'm definitely a fan of giving those guys. The shock giving someone like Edita was shot because like we said you know what Russell Russell Shepard Bennie Fowler you. You know what those guys are. You can keep maybe one or two of them. At this point. Maybe one maybe two who knows they're still going to have their role role as a receiver in contribute on special teams but if you're looking for something I mean this offense is probably going to start slow so having all these different different combinations in training camp <hes> you you you should just see what works and maybe something does and maybe doesn't but it trying to figure out what works is not going to make your offense any worse than what it could potentially be right now so they were going to end with some potential of free agents and I know the they did have a bit of a workout and they did sign the two guys but they're still kind of a group of veteran free agents out there. I'm just going to run through the list and again. We're we'll just see if anyone stands out so right now we have a camera meredith who was just recently released by the saints a Chris You you just read an article wondering if the giant shooting look at him then it's names like peer Garson of Michael Crabtree Terrance Williams Mike Wallace streeter and then there's the Kelvin Benjamin question it was widely reported the giants were going to reach out to him and invite him into that wide receiver workout apparently that that did not happen he it was not one of the procedures who worked out obviously Benjamin is a former first round pick of Dave Gettleman Kelvin Benjamin also not a very good wide receiver. He's one one of the worst separators in the League when you look at next Gen stats and wide receivers who have qualified for their full season as stats over the past three years ears. I think Kelvin Benjamin has three of the I think six lowest average separation numbers of those three seasons so not not great not the kind of receiver you want to put on an offense that should be creating space especially in the short and intermediate regions of the Field Kelvin Benjamin. I mean just doesn't have that the separation ability so I really don't think he should be an option and then you have that other group of potential wide receivers probably come with some some character concerns. I think we could say that's a group of Dez Bryant Martavis Bryant if he gets reinstated and then we aren't Karoo who was released by Miami. He's this guy who'd never really caught on with the dolphins. He had some deep potential when he was drafted. Never really caught on. I think there was some work ethic issues. There were some injury issues so I think that's a group of like three guys. Giants probably going to stay away from if they believe culture is as important as they have said so of that group. Does anyone even standout to you there because I I don't think anyone does for me. Yeah no not really I might take a look at somebody by like the Anthony Thomas even though he's he kinda straddles the line between wide receiver and running back <hes>. Maybe feel Riddick 'cause he's out there as you know. Maybe this is a bit of a <hes> extinct designation but as a slot back even though yes the giants do have a ton of slot receivers at this point they kind of have to cast their net wide and take any advantage they can get because we're well into <hes> Mick Mick Jagger territory with you can't always get what you want but if you try you might get what you need so him maybe Carlos Henderson it kind of the ultimate one year wonder her back in two thousand seventeen at Louisiana tech but maybe he still has that ability sammie coates is out there justin hunter two guys with size and a ton of athleticism but have just never put it together at the N._F._l.. Level it's not ideal yeah. It's not great and I think probably the best path forward for the giants right. Now is to keep the group that they had they brought in the two. You guys and now wouldn't cuts start to happen in training camp and maybe you can pick someone up off a roster that isn't going to make a team that you could could find useful to add to this group there. There might be a couple and that's probably going to be a better option than a group of veteran receivers like like what is is Michael crabtree going to add to the giants and someone not only just coming off an Achilles but someone of veteran wide receiver. I like what I don't. I'm not sure sure I understand the point. I know kind of said earlier like you can just say you know what why not for some of these guys but if you're looking for some of the older things like Michael Capture after your especially a Kelvin Benjamin. It's like what what's the point. Are they really going to add so much that bringing in a veteran guy and blocking someone like a a Slayton or reggie white is going to is going to make that much of a difference. I'm not sure it is so I don't see them going into the free agent market again I see them probably sticking with what they have and as underwhelming as a group as we've said it is hopefully you can maybe see if if someone is able to step up and if if it's able to get going and you do that on top of potentially a better usage of saquon Barkley in the passing game better uses of Evan Ingram than I think you can still work around and have have a passable offense but it's just it's just accepting what you have what is going to work best for you and then figuring out how to make that happen happen and I think that is going to be what we should be looking for. As the next couple of practices have been for giants during Training Camp Yeah I would even I project that forward is that that's the main thing we should be watching through week three of the preseason you know when teams start to play their starters for most of the game they start to game plan as if it was an actual game that matters that's I think will be when we get our clearest idea of just what the giants might be thinking how they might be looking at fitting all of these pieces together and and you know really whether or not this will be an Evan Ingram and saquon Barkley offense with receiving core moving to a secondary are- position almost like receiving running backs and tight ends. Were honestly worth them last year yeah. I think that's probably going to be the how this offense stays somewhat success. What words it's at least it's best path toward success this season so we will see if if that is the path they choose to take while everything else plays out so we are going to end this episode here? Thank you guys I of four listening. You can get this podcast wherever you get your podcast Pres Rate Review if you have not that helps this podcast <unk> out greatly and it's going to continue to help as training camp is going in the regular season comes and more episodes are going to be coming out on this field and that we have ed onsite he you will be coming out with with a bunch of podcasts from there. You can find big view at big view dot com you can find a twitter at big review can find big review on instagram at big underscore BLU underscore view. You can follow me on twitter at damp due to you fall Chris on twitter at Raptor M. K.. I thank thank you guys for listening. I will not be talking to you again but Chris will and the rest of this podcast will so seriously I thank you guys so much for listening to me. You can continue listening to this podcast as it continues to grow strong throughout the season so thank you guys for listening goodbye appreciate you. Are you troubled by strange hockey traits of the middle of the night. Do you experience feelings of dread about N._H._l.. Free Agency have you or your family ever seen in New York islanders game. If the answer is yes then don't wait another minute. Pick up your mobile device and subscribe to Lighthouse Hockey podcasts from S._p.. Nation today are courteous and efficient coasts are ready to serve all of your islander needs and worries lighthouse hockey podcasts for New York

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