How to Ensure that Your People Can Find You

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Welcome to design speaks the podcast that helps you discover uncommon inspiration take control of your creativity and create work gets noticed on your host. Brandy see joining me is my co-host Julie Haider this week. We're going to be talking about what you can do to help your people find you stay tuned for that coming up later in life show. Hi, Julie. Hi Brandy off. So Julie. Yes, would you think it was weird if the Geek Squad guy from Best Buy came to your house knocked on your door. And asked if you need help fixing your computer and you did not ask for him to come. Yes. I think that would be very weird and I would definitely be like dead. Please go away. What are you doing here? Did you fake that Geek Squad van? Yeah. Yeah, so I would totally be like if I needed your help, I know where to find you best birthday guy. But honestly, this is how we treat finding our people sometimes instead of letting them know what we offer and helping them know where to find us. We often show up at their door with our product or service and expect it to be a success and not super awkward or off-putting. So today we're going to talk about not being the weird Geek Squad guy off and so more on that in a minute, but first what have you been working on Julie? So I've had like a little bit of a break from shooting a loop minutes and I'm about to start back on that so lately, I've just been working on helping my couples figure out all the last-minute details and there's been quite a few changes because you know, the world is very uncertain right now. I bet a lot more people are doing elopement weddings. Are they is that like a trend that's like going up during coronavirus? Yeah, for sure. Lots of who who are planning a big wedding who don't want to postpone or just going ahead and getting married. But the thing I love about that is a lot of people are that's what they wanted in the first place, but they felt pressured to have a big wedding. So I'm happy for them that they're doing what they actually wanted. Anyway, that's fantastic. Yeah, speaking of things be different because of you know covet and stuff you and I have had to adapt quite a bit. Most of our season four season one was over resume. And so this season starting with this episode we're doing video now. So yeah for for those of you who are listening we actually are doing a video a full unedited God help us version of this on YouTube now, so this is our first one there's probably going to be some bumps for all of them. Watching over video because the upside to the audio is it's going to probably be a little cleaner and we're going to sound way more polished. But yes the bonus to the video is you get to see your smiling faces and Julie, please describe for the winners that get to see this video what they get to see behind you. Yes, I have a lovely closet here to my right your standard closet door and to my left. We have a tropical scene with wind blowing through the palm tree is the waves crashing on the shore. It's quite nice. I've been pretending that this is my window. It's not it's a green screen, but we're pretending it's a window. So you just had like a green screen life around my husband gives a twitch streamer. Yeah. He happens to have a green screen. So I commandeered it for the day. You also commandeered his gaming headset. So actually this one off That one's yours. You're a gamer Julie. I am actually I feel very intimidated like something's about to go down and I need to be careful. Don't worry. I'll go easy on you Faith. That's awesome. So so yeah, we're doing video now and I'm really excited. You can find it on YouTube. We'll have our we've had a a design speaks podcast YouTube channel for a while set up, but we just never really got around to put it in, you know putting anything out there. So this is our chance. I'm really excited to see be able to reach more people on video and just be able to put makeup on or I guess I know know the ups and downs are there like we can show up without makeup and that's great. But then sometimes it's nice to just like get ready. Like you're going to like a real meeting or something. So my normal so that's what that's what we've been doing over here. So that's really exciting. And I hope that you guys will check that out. So this week I've been inspired by so Michelle actually sent me. A episode. Do you know who Malcolm Gladwell is? I feel like I've heard the name that I don't remember who he is. I don't know much about him to be honest. He's he's got a podcast that's really popular called revisionist history that I've listened to like randomly over the years, but Michelle sent me this episode called Dragon psychology and I was listening to it and it's basically it's called Dragon Psychology 101. And the episode is basically about how the idea that Dragon's Hoard treasure. Right? Like they have a layer and they hide in there and they just hoard treasure and they kill anyone who tries to take it so they don't show it off to their neighbors. You don't ever know like what they have or how much they have and so this episode with Malcolm Gladwell. He's basically talking about Andy Warhol and hoarders and like Iraq is that like hoard collections that they never put out. They don't share them with anyone there just like in back closets and JRR Tolkien wrote a lot about you know smell. And the the hoarding of treasure and what that does to your mind and how that affects the dwarves and like all this stuff. So the idea of hoarding and I was listening to this and thinking, you know, it really inspired me to think about how people in general, you know, I think people like to hoard things but I think as creatives and creative professionals. Sometimes we like to hoard like our knowledge. We feel like what like any particular way we do something is like our treasure and like if we share it with somebody we're losing something if we don't keep it to ourselves, but the opposite is actually true that we grow by sharing which is such a weird idea what it sounds like don't you lose by giving away but you actually get something back. So it was just it was it was a good reminder to me not to hoard the things I share. I think I I try really hard to give people a lot of free value. I also know that I can have the job. And see sometimes when I'm trying to create content to think like well, is this something like I should save for like my course or my Mastermind Korea or the like the people that I coach But ultimately like those things go deeper in a way that I can never go like on a podcast or in a blog or in a Instagram post or you know anything so long sharing bits of the treasure that I have here and there and really has really helped me realize that like, I actually grow more by doing that and I think that if if other creatives can kind of grasp on to that concept that like don't be a dragon like don't hoard all of the treasure that you have don't hoard your knowledge your skills your expertise just for the people that are going to pay you for it. If you have something to share share it it's knowledge is so valuable and I think that if you know if I can be an encouragement to to anyone with that inspiration this wage Just try and share more and you'll actually get more by doing that. So anyways, that's that's what I've been thinking about a lot lately. I love that cuz I'm all about Community wage competition and I love learning. So this is perfect. All the good things like Andy Warhol and JRR Tolkien. How is this going to find common ground and somehow it did anyway sidebar Andy Warhol was like a major home. So that was where that came in and they have like his entire collection of just Randomness in the bath, bath bath. And I'm not one who believes in the back by half Millions. So honestly, a lot of times I bring songs that it can be a little more serious or a little heavy or maybe they affected me emotionally or mentally and sometimes well more than sometimes creatively obviously, but this week I brought this song because I've been listening to it basically since quarantine started which is some months now, so it's got some staying power. It's really just light and it's about, you know, just hanging out and kind of gives you the vibe that you're just hanging out in the in the van with Scooby and the Gang and driving down the beach and enjoying the wind in your hair. Which off Gosh, I would give anything for that right now. But the point is sometimes it's fun to just have a song that is just for fun. It has a good good vibe good energy and just kind of helps you be in a good mood. All right, so that was fun. And you should go listen to it to Julie since you didn't get a chance to hear it. Okay. Yeah, if you like Scooby, I don't know some people don't wash I never really watched it. But I'm I'm not against Scooby. Okay, as long as not not against Skippy then we'll be all right. So, okay. So Julie, let's talk now we get to talk about the real stuff. Yeah. So earlier in this season, we were talking about how to find out who your target market is to dive really deep into that and that's really great foundational stuff. But what do you do with that information? How do you make it so that those people particularly can find you? Because if other people who aren't your target market or front of you, it's probably not going to be the best fit for either one of you and you don't want there to be crickets, you know, you don't want the yeah. I to to know who your people are and then they can't find you. So today I am really excited to be talking about like dog. How to get those people you are people. Yeah. So the the idea behind this whole season and we talked about this earlier, but again this this is almost like an episode 1 of sorts for the people are finding us on YouTube. We are we are very practical this season. So last season it was a lot of like creative confidence and a lot more internal how to find inspiration and there are a lot of practical things to that but this season we really wanted to give people like when you leave this podcast you can turn it off and go do something like go out and actually know write your target story or you know, figure out what your goals are and your purpose and all these kinds of things. So yeah today, we really wanted to talk about things like finding finding your people on social media hashtag strategies. Julie is like an amazing SEO Guru, so she's going to be talking about SEO will probably talk a little bit about like Google AdWords off. Text just to cover like the basics, but I'm going to I'm going to let you start with sort of SEO because I think that that's I think people get the general idea behind hashtags and I will talk a little bit more about how to use those strategically, but I think that SEO is probably the thing that honestly when people approach me that are not my people that they obviously did not read the description of what I do and they saved you help me with my website and I'm like no no I cannot but I know someone who possibly can depending on what that is. So tell us tell us about SEO tell us how people can use what they know about their person Their audience to help them figure some of that out. So SEO can see really young like intimidating and it does take a little bit of knowledge, but I think it's kind of fun. I don't know maybe I'm a weirdo if I don't I don't know what to say to your like a sadist if you log Let's see. Oh, that's like people that like to code. I don't understand you. You just look at lines of of numbers and words all day. It's like a fun challenge, I think and I think part of the reason I do see it as a challenge and not just like, oh, I'm in a plug-in this keyword a thousand places on my website is because I like to take the approach of not just looking at the like obvious things but more creative coming in and thinking about other ways that I can find or I could have my target market find me when they're not even looking for we favorite thing to do. Okay, let's talk about that. Yeah. Okay. So I'm an adventurer lutman photographer. So obviously I try to drink for that keyword on my homepage and all that and that's like pretty basic SEO stuff which you can find good information about that which is basically just taking your title and sticking that in places. Yeah. Yeah putting those that keyword phrase into as many different places as you can and I woke You guys with all that because that's basic information. You can find so many places where I think it gets more interesting is kind of taking a step back and thinking what is it that you're black market? Like what? Okay. So when we were talking about your target market we drove into like what are the issues that they're facing like what are their potential objections to hiring someone like you like all these different things and they think if we look back at that information now, it can actually help us know like how we can sort of insert ourselves into where they're looking into their story. I like for instance for you Brandy. You don't do just plain old logo design. So yes, you could try to rank for some key word related to logo design, but that's not going to bring you literally going to do the opposite of I want. Yeah, exactly. And so that's really like not going to be an efficient use of your time. I would want to try and rank for dead. Design strategist creative coach. Yes. Yeah, but let's say your target market doesn't know that they need a design strategist. How the heck do you get to them? Yeah when they don't know that their life for you. So one of the things that I like to do is look at what problems they're facing and think about like what sort of things would they be Googling when they're trying to figure that out and he's just kind of like, what is the step before looking for you? So for an elopement photographer, we are usually one of the first things that a couple books before they get to like, you know, the song or Minor Details or like to booking like a forest or something like that, but usually they're looking at other things before they start to look for a photographer and I want them to find me in that stage not when they're looking for your Furs because that sets me apart from everyone else. If I'm the only photographer that they find who's giving great information, then I don't even have to compete against the other photographers right making of dead. Morning. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so I'm thinking about like, okay. So a couple is considering eloping or maybe they've already decided they are going to Loop what kind of questions do they have? In fact, they Googling right now. So for me that's stuff related to locations, or maybe there are thinking about like, oh, what dress would I want to wear or like what do you mean kind of dress? Should I be looking for? So for instance? I have a blog post that is about how to find an adventure elopement dress sensor. It's giving tips on like what kind of dresses are going to be really hard to, you know, high kick in and stuff like that and the things you need to consider about like fabrics and you know temperatures and Seasons that you're eloping all that kind of good information that's expertise that I already have if I was just having a you know a conversation with one of my Brides like that's information. I could give her so it's really valuable. It shows that I'm an expert and people are searching from that. I just looked dead. My like Google analytics yesterday and that blog post is really tripping right now because so many people are deciding to look and they're like crap is my boss is like, you know, the dress that planning to get maybe I need to make those changes. So they're asking those questions and they're finding that blog post. So I think that's a really amazing way to pull yourself out there for people to find you when they don't even know that they need to find you yet. Right. So knowing their problem like is is the first step in and hopefully by this point in in the journey that we're helping take you on this season. You do know what those problems are. Yeah, absolutely. So when I'm trying to think of that stuff, I really just like make a list of all the different things that all of questions people might have the kinds of things that they might be searching for and then you know, what do you do next with that? So that's where keyword research comes in and I know that can also sounds scary. Yep. How overwhelming it can be. Yeah, it's like I have especially for you know, who a lot of our listeners are independent graphic designers. So freelance or small boutique, you know or something like that. It's very much like oh my gosh. This is just like one more thing that I have to try and figure out and it can be it can be a lot and I speak I speak as someone who when I first started trying to figure this out and I still don't have it figured out. My SEO was probably not great on my website if I'm being perfectly honest because I haven't I haven't gotten this deep into it so long you're also like I'm taking notes for me and I'll say yeah, our audience is definitely going to get a lot out of this. So continue. Yeah. So for kind of combating the overwhelm, I recommend just like diving deep into this for a day or two and just sort of, you know, getting your mind set on that and then just going doing everything you need to do and then you'll have a dog And and then you can go do that like as needed. So it doesn't feel like you know, you don't need to do this every day every week even every month, especially once you get kind of get this foundation. So you start with those questions that you've got and then I think you could probably like use your word map actually for some of this. Oh, I think I might have to have a side session and do this together. I'm interested in this idea. Yeah, so it's very much like brainstorming. So I I like I told you I'm nerdy about as the oh so I have a spreadsheet in Google Docs boy. Here we go off. So I start with like some basic key words that I think like be something that people are searching for so to just kind of preface this keyword research is figuring out which key words people are actually searching for on Google and sometimes like what you expected to be is what people are searching but other times it's not and so so this goes beyond just getting on Google like I did yesterday. And going graphic designers are and leaving a blank, you know, totally something you could do. Yeah, which PS like the fourth biggest answer that was pretentious. I don't know feel about that. Anyways, yeah. No, actually you can totally use Google for that. You know, like either leave it blank. He can see what it's Auto populating because that's going to be something that's search for often. And then also if you search for kind of like a more General keyword, if you scroll all the way down to the bottom of the the the results page it's going to give you some suggestions of like related searches. So usually if you start with something general it's going to give you something more specific. Sometimes that matches what you do and sometimes it doesn't but that's like a super fast easy quick way to do things. You're scared of using Google AdWords Planner. Yeah, honestly. Yep. You saying that the that I should use the word map for this then all of a sudden? I feel like not overwhelmed anymore. I'm like, yeah, totally doable. I mean I have a spreadsheet but if I'm writing it out like that, I think that could really help you. And like I said, it's just kind of a brainstorm. So I usually start with something that just comes to mind right away. And then so if you go into I personally just use the gear the Google AdWords Keyword Planner. I think that's what it's called. Now. They've changed the name. Okay. You could probably buy say if you just search Google adword. Yeah. Yeah. So obviously, you use that like they are wanting you to actually do a Google AdWords campaign, but I've never done that you don't have to do to use this Keyword Planner. So you just have to like pretend that you're going to do and then not actually go through with it basically wait. It's like window shopping. Yeah how to Window Shop Google. Sorry when you go into their you have two different options. One of them is to just like check the analytics on specific keywords. So you're supplying all those keywords and it's going to tell you how many times it's being searched per month and life. Your competition rate is but then the other option is I'm trying to remember exactly how they word it. But it's basically like you suggest one key word and then it's going to come up with other key words that I think are related and suggest this to you. So it's good to use both of those that'll kind of help you brainstorm. Sometimes if you're like talking about a really nice topic. Google doesn't have a good suggestions or any suggestions. So sometimes you really have to do the brainstorming yourself, but I feel like once you get started and get in the groove of it. Suddenly you're thinking about all kinds of related things. So what I like to do is Go in with a just an easy key word that I'm like yeah at this topic is probably something that people are thinking about I see if Google has any suggestions if they don't then I start thinking about it my cellphone. So for instance when I talking talking about the elopement dresses immediately, I thought like oh Adventure wedding dress, but I was like, I wonder how many people actually I you know the term Adventure wedding, right? Yeah. I totally didn't until you started doing it. Right exactly. So some people may be searching for that but not knowing what it's like officially call right even a low back pain in my mind had a completely different connotation. It's like people running away to get married in a courthouse and some other state and no one knows where they went. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so terms really matter because for instance if you are a baker and you were up to see a like that's a really fancy word that is nine out of ten. People aren't good enough. That might be your official title. That might be like, oh what your bakery does is the fancy pastry is when all that but what people are probably Googling is like where can I buy cupcakes near me or like where the best pastry wage stuff like that way more basic like they're not going to know those words. So it's really important that you find out what people are actually searching because you can ranked like number one for a certain word. But if no one searching for it, it's not going to bring your traffic. So it's really important to know which keywords are actually being searched unless you know that your ideal Target doesn't know those words and you only want people That does know like what a French pastry chef is called then that's yeah, so maybe if you were like a French pastry chef school, right? Yes off use those words, but for the everyday person they're just like where can I get a cupcake? So back to the I'm really good at taking you off track. No, that's okay one. We're talking about French pastries. I know just anything French in my mind's are my mind is gone. So step one know the problems and the people step to start easy go like find easy keywords to start with. Yeah and then move from there and as you're doing that and like trying different, so if it's location-based business try different like location keywords, like your state your city other related words to that, you know, like if you are in San Diego home Could be Southern California it can be so Cal it could be San Diego. Like there's a lot of different words that could mean basically your same area. If your area doesn't matter there's all kinds of other things created to all that too. So just like play around and put all kinds of things in there. It's just like a brain dump just put it in and see what happens and Google may tell you nobody searching for that and then you know, I don't bother with that key word or they might tell you like, oh a thousand to ten thousand people a month or searching for this. So it's just it's very Illuminating and it points you in the right direction of this is m e word that you need to be working on. I kind of I have had a hard time with it because it has felt very overwhelming. And where did you go to just like even figure out cuz I got on a Google AdWords search you're thinking that you sent me too and It was like not entirely they didn't really walk you through how to use it. No, so it's not intuitive. It's not intuitive at all. And like I would say I'm pretty tech-savvy like I can find my way around an interface pretty well like I do my I do my own WordPress website and stuff. And so I feel I felt going into it. Like I should be able to figure this out. Julie said life. It's pretty pretty helpful and I sat on there for a few hours and I just just like, I don't know what I'm doing like it's showing me words and it's showing me numbers, but I'm like, how do I know what's related to what so we're seeing people go and and we'll keep going on this obviously, but where can people go just like for that particular tool to actually help them figure out how to use it without seeing, you know, five days killing themselves trying to understand how even work. Yeah just to find the basic words that they need. Yeah, I personally would go to Google and look for somebody who's showing you exactly where to click because there's a lot of extra stuff that's related to Google AdWords that you're not going to need home. And so just for keyword research you really are only clicking on like three different things, but you gotta know where those are and I think visually seeing it like for me it's super easy to go in there and I just like click click here. This is the information I need but as someone coming in fresh and not knowing like what you're looking at your like so many buttons so many. Yeah, there's just a lot. Yes, so I would either find like a long post that has like step-by-step pictures that are like circling the things you need to be clicking on or just go to YouTube and find a video find somebody who's just giving you like the basics. You don't need something super complicated wage. I mean I could point you just some people on YouTube who I think are really great experts, but honestly like you kind of have to know what you're doing before you and see what cuz you're like, what are they talking about Louis? Yeah. Yeah, so just find something basic and visual. So once you so say you've gone through that step they've figured out how to use the Google AdWords thing. What's the next step? So I have this information now, I have the words have the key words that people are looking for to kind of help them. Give them a road map to find me but then what do I do with these words now? So now you're going to click on create some sort of content that is on that topic and using those keywords. So you can either if you're if you have a Blog on your website, you can do a blog post about that or you can create just a regular web page there not too different. Like Google isn't going to trade treat them super different as far as like, you know actually ranking. If you do a web page, you can make it happen. Like it doesn't have to be something that's linked from your like home page menu and all that especially if you're like only wanting people to find you through that. I would probably recommend This if you're trying to put out helpful information that you're people who are already following you and already checking out your website if you want them to see that too. I would put it on your blog because then that information is like clear to find for everyone. So if they're Googling and they come find you or if they're already familiar with our website both those people can find that information. But if you're just trying to get to have someone find you for like services that you're offering or something like that then it probably makes more sense to have it as a web page if you want it to not be linked on your main menu or anything then like it's a little more secret but people can still find you in Google that doesn't really affect that as long as it's like a page that Google's crawling. So if people aren't writing blogs, yes say say there's you know a Say there's a designer that just went freelance and they just want to find you know, let's say restaurants that need an update to their logo off. They need new branding. They need like they need all the stuff and they this person does not have a Blog they don't write. How did they use the SEO the F to help their people find them? Yeah. So for them, I would definitely say to create a web page start a blog. No. No, I took it a web page. And so in that case like they're specifically wanting to Market themselves to restaurant owners. So that's like a very a very specific like a leased thing. And I think that's where you can really Excel SEO is if you try to go for a super broad keywords, like it's going to be a lot harder to rank for that because for one more people are trying Thank for those broad keywords, but also it's just harder to talk in a broad way through your texts on your website. Whereas if you're talking about something super specific like if that's those keywords are just going to naturally come up so much and Google's going to look at that page and be like, oh, this is definitely a page about this Niche topic. Yeah, having packages that are like very specific to a certain thing. Those are going to be easier to rank for yes, I would say because I do know a lot of designers that are that don't blog sites that just have a portfolio website. Yeah, my input on that would be use those words in a case study. So instead of doing like a blog post as you know, here's just like an article about this thing do a case study of a project that you've done before that is for a restaurant. Yeah, and you can that it basically just acts as a nickname. Ended portfolio so you can say here's what I did for this restaurant and then those keywords can pop in and out of that and it acts in a similar way searchable to a blog post. Yes. Yeah. I yeah, definitely. I think that's a really great idea and also, yeah, so when you are writing like obviously you want your keywords and it doesn't have to be like the whole string of like wage if it's a key word that has like three different words in it. They don't always have to be together for Google to know that you're still talking about that. Okay. I didn't know that. I thought that they did. Yeah, it used to that that way but home Google Bots are a lot smarter now, so it's more like Gary and amazing. Yeah, but so there's like a hierarchy with titles and stuff like that song. Basically it starts with like your each one title on the page is going to be like the most important and Visually it also is the most important so you definitely want to make sure that your key word is in that that's probably going to be the song Love your page anyway, so it just makes sense. But having subtitles is also important and I think that's a great way to like address the questions that you think that your target market is going to be asking or the topics that they're wanting information on and it also just like visually breaks up the page. So it's not just like a wall of text for them. Yeah, that's daunting and they're not going to let that soak it helps break things up. And then also like, you know, if you're answering a question that you see that people have Googled that's one of the key words having that question is a title or subtitle like our Google is going to like pay more attention to that. Whereas if you just had that same question just in the regular like paragraph text. It doesn't put as much importance on that. So it's nice helpful for like the Google Bots but also for just like user experience, too. So yeah well and our audience here is primarily designers so they should know. Yep. No, you know, you know how to create hierarchy out there. At least you better if you don't yes, just call Julie and I and we can we can help you out speaking of like broad broad words and categories and things like that. That's that leads perfectly into Instagram because I mean how many times have I know know how many times you've done it but I don't know many many times I've searched like a specific hashtag. That maybe is bigger than I thought not for my purposes. But just as an Explorer as a user and out there looking for things. I'll search something like creative process or designer say let's just say designer just to check out new designers out there and then random like the most random photos pop up on a gram and it's like this is not a picture of anything related to design. So what's happening there is? It's too broad and it's popular. So the thing that tends to happen Less on a webpage probably still happens, but less on a webpage and more on on like social media special program is that people will look for the soup like the trending hashtag. So, you know, even something like coronavirus or something that's got like a huge following of people. They will throw it on to their posts just to get people to see them. So that is the opposite of of what you want to try and do so, I would say five 4 to kind of transition from what Julie's been talking about. I think you probably still need to use those those same keywords and start to maybe transition them over into being hashtags. I've only started doing that based on my very limited use of the Google Keyword thing. But when you put in a hashtag into Instagram, it will automatically like over to the left or right or somewhere nearby it tell you how many people are using that wage tag. Yeah. So one strategy that that seems to work really well for me that I've noticed is using a mix of the really low number hashtag wage and the really high number hashtags not using the high number hashtags just because they are high numbers but because it actually is something that you do so like graphic design has a huge number because right Fortunately or unfortunately, a lot of people will identify as a graphic designer or say what they're doing is graphic design whether it is or not. We could talk about another time but it's a huge hashtag but often I still use it anyways because it's what I it's part of what I teach is what I do, but then there's also things like I have started always using my very own hashtag which is uncommon inspiration and that one I'm trying to grow so that when my when I'm talking to people that understand what that means they will be able to search through everything. I've created wage based on just that hashtag. So what is your experience? I have I have just recently really started to strategically use hashtags to find my people now that I am transitioning over to be more of a creative coach and speaker and hopefully writer very soon. But, you know being a podcaster and stuff there's there's like a lot of birth. And every time I put out like a post the captions change because it's not always about the same thing. So how have you used like the key words and your hashtag strategy to bring people find you on social media versus finding you on just Google? Yeah, so they are definitely related. I will say like one thing that I find a little frustrating about Instagram hashtags is it tells me how many posts are are with that hashtag, but that doesn't tell me how many people are searching that right? Yes. So forget how many people are using it not who's actually caring about it off. Yeah. So if a hashtag is heavily used by other Adventure aluminum photographers, but actual couples aren't looking at that hashtag and they'll new look for it. It wasn't a matter of how many, you know posts are when they may not help me. So it is really important to again go back to like what like thinking as your target market. What will they be looking for? And what kind of hashtag? Alias so I try to kind of follow people who I think are my target market and like create a relationship with them on Instagram. And so if they post a photo I try to look at them tags, they're using and make note of those and a lot of times they're unrelated to my field, you know, like related to the outdoors different hashtags like that that aren't like a little related but they're Outdoors related. So it's like common interests. And yeah, so I have I have like a a whole database of hashtags and it really is a mix of things and I think throwing in a little bit of everything in a strategic way, I don't write just like picking random things and we just throwing stuff at the wall. Yeah. No, that's not exactly not how we work around here, Julie and I know that's so the the the downside and I just want to make it really clear like the downside to going after big hashtag is not just because they're big but it's because you will be lost in a sea of all of them. Hashtags, so I could search graphic design and literally be scrolling for probably days and never hit like the end or maybe even hit anything. I'm remotely interested. In fact, I had been using design process because that's what I teach and what I found when I was following that hashtag is that people have people more closely associated with design process to Industrial design, then they do graphic design. So I I'm now in the process of trying to figure out my hashtag strategy so that people find like you said, they don't know that they're searching for design process. Yeah. So what I've what I've arrived at most often is that the problem that I'm helping solve is that people have creative block them know how to get started and process that I teach solves that but they're not going to be searching for that. So I searched creative block or you know, things like that and that has a far far away. Smaller number of of uses than the other and then you can actually find your people that are like, you know, I hate my life sitting at my desk hashtag creative block off like yeah, you are my person. Yeah, exactly. And I also asked the people who inquire with me like how they found me and if it's through Google or Instagram, I specifically asked what they searched and that is really Illuminating to tell you like this is what like my actual real life target market person found me through this hashtag and it doesn't need only use that hashtag from here on out. But you know at least someone was looking there. Yeah and thought to look there so that's a good step further because I actually I think every single person that finds Instagram and I answer every email or inquiry obviously on my website and I always ask them. Like, how did you find me? But I don't often ask if ever I've maybe have asked a couple of times like dead. What like sometimes they'll say I found you with hashtags, like that's all they'll tell me and if they say that I'll say like can I ask like which hashtag it was but I don't do that for my website. I just bought like someone else I found you through like Google or LinkedIn. I'm just like, okay that's good to know. But yeah, I think going that step further really is helpful. Yeah, and another thing that I'm like trying to do more is thinking outside of the box of like if they found me through another account on Instagram, I like like featured or you know, somehow like showcased her linked or whatever. What would that account be and like, you know, if another adventure a little bit photographer like shouts me out like a core great, but would someone like hire me based on that. I don't know, you know, but like what are the related things like it goes back to your target market and like what their hobbies are wage? Values are like what are the things that are important to them and they spend time thinking about and looking at and all that. Where can I be showcased or like collaborate with someone in that dead industry and then people be like, oh and maluma photographer. That sounds interesting. I'll go follow this person when really like they were originally following a backpack account right like crazy dogs account or something like that. So I think like thinking outside of your industry of like a place where you could collaborate with another account that is related. But unrelated like the peripheral stuff like not just in the center. Yeah that makes total sense again, not random, you know, like yeah really look into your target market and like what kinds of things like, what does their personal Instagram account look like? Who are they following? Yeah, and that is one of the questions that we did make sure to tell people to answer when they were creating. They're like ideal audience if who else do they fall off? On social media and why so not just other people like you but what other kind of things like what for me I I might be looking at what kind of like planners do they use cuz the kind of people my target audience wants to have something physical that they can you know work with and they have a planner and they don't just use them under on their their phone or whatever. So yeah, so things like that, so lastly before we wrap up just briefly what is alt text cuz we sort of touched on the fact that we would talk about that just a teeny bit for maybe I'm guessing most people know what that is, but for the people out there that like this is all new to them. And they especially mostly have images like portfolio type stuff on their website. How can they use alt text to kind of drive people as well? What is all text? And how can they use? Yeah. So I'll text is the hidden text that you can go in on your end of things and put into an image, but nobody's actually seeing it when they're looking at your website suck in years past people tended to cured stuff that but the actual intent intent for all text is if someone is hearing impaired and they're having their computer read off text to them the computer is going to read what hopefully is a description of what that images. So Julie would say wind blowing in breathe behind right here. Yeah, so I think you can use it as both you'll cancel stick key words in there. But you also need to make sure it's accurately describing the image and not just saying, you know, like a whole string of keywords that even isn't even a real sentence. So make it a real sentence May describe the picture but totally throw some key words in there. Yeah, like how you would describe it to someone. If you were actually talking to someone having to describe that exactly. Yeah, and when quick thing I want to know about that too is you don't want to have the same this also goes off like the file names of your images that can have key words in it as well. But with all text and your file names for the images don't just put like the same name and then just you know, 1234 guilty need to have guilty. They all need to have separate different names and that's an opportunity to put a wide variety of specific keywords in there. But if it's all the same thing you're going to be competing against yourself and that's so okay. So I I think I'm going to have to have you do like a An SEO singing with me. So let's plug for you. Tell me about this and I'm probably going to need to do one with you. But yeah, so since I am nerdy and I like to talk about life and I love like problem solving and figuring out like what is you know the right strategy for people to use for their business I do offer SEO checkups, and that's like a one-on-one call that is an audit of your website and going in and specifically saying these are the different things Page by page that you can change to make a difference. So starting with if you don't already know like what keywords you would need to go for we talked about that and it's all based on who you're trying to reach and like what your goals are. So yeah, like on a nice one on one call of like helping you figure it out. So you're not feeling lost and it goes beyond like me just telling you how to do these things but actually like specifically for your business here the different steps that you need job. To make a difference in your SEO. So my students have had a lot of success in gotten a lot of growth which always makes me super excited. So I'd love to work with anybody who's feeling like I want to do it themselves, but they're really not sure where to start and they're intimidated by things so you can go to seo.com and find out the information about the checkups and I will put the link to that on on our show notes. So that will be available to everybody and I'm probably going to do that right now when we hang up go schedule that with me because I definitely thought basic understanding but I could definitely use some some more some more goodies. So hopefully we've given people some new ideas on ways. They can help people find them metaphors without them metaphorically showing up on people's doorsteps. Don't you asking for their business? Cuz nobody likes that I feel bad for like The solar sales guy that has to knock on everybody's doors cuz yeah, door-to-door sales not really a good idea. We're not in the fifties people make it stop no choice. So, okay. Off off again that was movies in the back by half noise. You can find this song and lots of other inspiring music on our Spotify playlist. Just search music from design speaks. All right everybody. That's our episode for today. If you enjoy this show and want to support us become one of our exclusive patrons over a patreon.com slash slime speed where you'll have access to some extended episodes and fun moments tips page design speed is produced by Kenneth Nippon and Dakota re of production by the podcast base. Thanks to Colin from vespertine for our theme music you can find vespertine wage Apple music, and Spotify designed space is a project of Brandy see designs. It is recorded and produced in the shadow of the watermelon pink Sandia Mountains near Albuquerque, New Mexico. You can leave us a name on Instagram at design speak podcast, and you can find all current and past episodes at design speak podcast. Thanks again for listening until next time. off

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