Season 8 Episode 6: Losing my Virginity (at 35)
The database podcast features real stories from real people of how they make modern dating work or not accepts owed while not only offer you a new perspective on dating. But will also change the way you date. I'm your host you eight for dating coach turned Dayton sociologists. You also hear commentary from my producer, Julie, traffic and other surprise co-hosts. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of dateable a show all about modern dating. Here's a topic. We haven't really talked about before which is religion and dating and sex. So our guest today wrote in and said verbatim. I was raised to believe that sex was for marriage, and then marriage should happen in the temple with a fellow Mormon if that doesn't happen half Fe, and you'll have those blessings in the next life one day. I realize the next life was not guaranteed and all I had was now. So we like to welcome Sarah to the show. Hi, sarah. Hi, she's thirty six years old currently lives into Pika Kansas for the last five years, and she's originally from Georgia she's currently single and actively going on dates, but also dating someone but haven't defined the relationship. So first of all give us a little background on how you're raised. And why you thought the marriage should happen in the temple with a fellow Mormon? Oh, that was just what I was told on my line. And with as a kid growing up Mormons believe that marriage exists in the next life. But if you want to be with your spouse and your children in the next life, and you have to get married in the temple under the covenant in a special way, otherwise your marriage isn't legit in the next live. So with that in mind, did you only date fellow Mormons? Well, I never really dated anyone Mormon or not. Plenty of Mormons date. There's like the Mormon aspect of my story. But then there's like the unique aspect of it. I don't know why. It's just seemed complicated to me not easy. It didn't happen. Very naturally dating. So I didn't really know how to go about doing it. I mean as a teenager in high school. There was no one today because everyone else was baptised then in college are really shot myself in the foot because I went to this really tiny conservative religious college. Where there just weren't that many guys to begin with Utah in this is true of a lot of campuses in Utah. Not just the one that I went to the guys have this varying. I dunno entitled attitude a very specific look that they want. I'm so curious about this because I grew up with a lot of a lot of Mormon friends growing up in high school, and they all net Thurs significant others in college. What is this specific? Look you're talking about. I'm so curious usually have to be blonde. A friend of mine that I went to school with. She says that she got married in her friends got married because they all adopted that look they died their hair dressed a certain. Way they wore makeup, they acted in a certain way that was maybe more demure stereotypically feminine. And even though they married really nice guys. Those guys noticed them because they looked certain way if Mormon faith you're not supposed to sleep with someone until marriage that the case frat, correct in then I guess just like is this something that you've always identified with like the Mormon faith or is this because of your family influence? I mean, I was raised Mormon. I believed in it fully for many years, a good friend of mine, my very best friend. She left the church put maybe six or eight years ago in so we talked about it a lot. And even though I was so going win at the time. I was fairly inactive. I still believed. I didn't go to church every single Sunday. And Wendy, I realized oh, I'm the only reason I'm still going to church is because of the people which also when I realized I really like people, I'm an extrovert all my friends and my family integrates. I am not need to stop living like one I just realized I didn't care about any of the. Believes in yet. I was still living. According to them the way that you think is sort of habitual in. I would still find myself. I guess we'll just wait until the next life. And then I can get married and have children in the realize, I don't even believe in the next life is why do I write in? Why am I not dating or pursuing a social life or respect life? If I don't believe in any of those other things in the just all kind of came together like the Bermuda. Triangle perfect moment all clicked into place. Now realize needed to change the way it was living in. That's why you wrote one day realize the next life was not guaranteed. All I had was now. So suffering had changed in the last couple months have sex for the first time a month before he turned thirty six tell us about that. I had just finished a biology class. I was just like there are only two things I know as I had a body that was designed for sex. In collaboration. I believe in the power of collaboration the creative power of two people working together is greater than the some of its parts, you know, synergy, and I'm just sick and tired of not of denying my body and pretending like, it's not important because the other thing I was doing with a lot of yoga and meditating e and all of those things just lead to me to be like, my body is all I have to experience the world. I don't know what a soul it is my spirit, even if I have one in my body has a clear purpose, it's designed for sex is designed to have babies. It was designed to procreate. And so even if I never have children, I wanna baby, but I would live if I didn't have a baby, you know, the clitoris is designed for pleasure in the field only organ like that. So basically, how did you meet this guy that you ended up having sex flit on match dot com in what like need you? Go on match we looking for sex or were there other motives all event I wanted sex. I want to date someone experience on relationship is wanted like a normal life. That normal people have got it when you actually like met him, can you describe that a bit more. Did you tell them that you were virgin no because I had a goal. I had I was running a ton in my journal, and I had all these goals and plans and objectives. And one of them was that I was going to have sex for the first time in the guy would have no idea. I was urging and I did that I was really proud of myself. So he he had no idea. You didn't tell note in Wotton is that a goal just out of curiosity. I didn't you know, a lot of the sort of stereotypical stories about sex in your first time is like the girl doesn't know anything. It's sort of uncomfortable in its awkward sort of like he has this knowledge that he's giving to her. There's also this whole baggage. Like you take her virginity loser. Virginity in bullshit. That's none of that. Applies to me. I know how to have an orgasm. I know what kind of I'm losing nothing here who I just virginity is not some commodity that loses value or whatever. I was like, no, it would you said, you know, how to get an orgasm is that from my cell. Pleasure like other. How is it? How was the sex? It was good don't have been on this day with this guy. And we spent the whole night together in we made out in did everything. But we did that two days in a row. The name we got together the next week. I think it took two weeks before we actually had full penetration. He said I was born again virgin, that's like, yeah. 'cause he was like a long time. He's like like years like, yeah. You're too. Thirty six. So was it everything you thought it would be did it live up to speculations. You know, at least so far in my experience like all sex is good sex was I'm having sex. That's good. I didn't have an orgasm. I had a lot of fun and it felt really good. And I got kind of close sometimes, but ultimately, he had no interest in oral sex and giving relieving giving and I was like really this the twenty first century, man. Are you crazy? So you said that he didn't know that you are virgin, how do you know that? Well, I eventually told him, and I thought I was like half of me was like sure he must have figured it out. And the other half is like don't give him too much credit. He probably hasn't figured it out. But I was like I'll just go ahead and tell him, but he seems to be really interested in me in serious should probably tell them the truth about this. So I did he was completely flabbergasted completely shocked. Now, I kinda think maybe it was the wrong thing to do. I think it bothered him. I don't know. But we broke up. Why do you think it bothered him in? What do you think that led to the break-up we didn't have sex after I told him I had been a virgin oh, oh for two weeks? We didn't have sex. And then we broke up. How did the break-up end? He tried to go me. And I left a message saying call me back or whatever. And then he didn't inside to started texting him being kind of as a slight seriously, dude. And he finally emailed me. It was. So you guys broke up. What happened after this guy? When I was in Arizona, while he was ghosting me I had sex with two other people that I met on Tinder the nice thing about that is because my family's not around. It's easier for me, you know, hook up with people thought my family being all like horrified. So I got there on a Friday, and I left on a Monday about noon, I got on Tinder in talking to several guys to the conversations continued I have been reading these Taoist books about sex and one of the guys I was talking to was also reading those books. So that was the initial point of interest. We were getting pretty excited in wanting to get together. Meanwhile, been Texan this other guy seemed like really kind of obsessed with sex than really sorta. Physical visual type of person. And as I own seems kinda weird. But also, maybe that would be okay. So I made plans to see that the second guy I drove to his place and he texted me in cancelled. And it's like, oh for peach sake, come on. We ended up talking on the phone. He was like maybe tomorrow. And I was like that's not gonna work for me most likely, so I came home from the failed Dane's at about like eight eight thirty or something like that nine o'clock. A couple of hours later about eleven eleven thirty the first guy who'd been reading the Taoist books texted me and asked if I could come over. And I was like yes to. Have my friends? It's yes, you can borrow my car. She was totally in favor of supporting me in this venture. So I go to his place. You looked pretty close AMI had sex, and it was fine. It wasn't awesome sex. But it was fine sex. I came home in like Finally, I hooked up with someone can check that off my bucket list. And then the next morning about six thirty the other guy texted and asked if I could come over in security, guys, six AM. Holy shit. Wow. So like seven hours, I had sex with two different people in the second time was awesome. Sit it was every everything I had hoped for and having sex away. What what me to still good for all? I'm like not even awake before. I can't imagine like spreading. Your life. UA six thirty on narrowly by Paul time-line Europe. Like having soccer Tempe. I will no longer to you. I cannot even function six. Normally us enlighten us. I wasn't so good. Well, will they both were good? Every guy I've been with. I thought has been very good looking. But he was very good looking, and he was actually smaller. He was like five six, and he was the smallest guy of the three guys. I have been with which actually is super nice smaller like height. Not. Yeah. Like, he wasn't so taught Vanik he was smaller and had great build and everything was very manly. But he wasn't so big. So I was like easy access like I could get to him at could reach him. There was that that was really nicely. He's almost also seemed like he was like a good size for me. There was a lot of positions. He just knew what he was doing. And I'm just going to infer here. Did he go down on you? Yes, analogous. It's really kind of cute and funny because he was making out, and he was all like all you wanna go. You wanna go down on me or something? I just like smiled at him. I swear if I could see my face like my eyes were twinkling like a cartoon. There would have been like a little text to mess with like little something clever in it. I don't know. What exactly? But I looked at him. I smiled at him in this such a way that clearly meant. Yes. But I'm I something like that. You just grand back in me and went to town. Nice. Just to have the timelines garrison. You lose your virginity at right before you're thirty six birthday. And this is in Kansas at whole what's the timeline of when you went to Arizona from the time when I lost my virginity, so to speak and the time when I had sex with those two other guys maybe a much. Okay. So you were like you got a taste. You're ready. Yeah. So you tripled your number in Amman? I did. Lesson tripled my number. Yeah. Doubled it twenty four hours. So yeah, you go girl girl. I know. I'm really proud of that. I think that like way to make up for lost time. I'm also really interested in what you put in your Tinder profile. Also when I was in Arizona. I got a lot of nice pictures. My friend was really invested in helping me take some nice photos. Okay. Also ahead. A lot of great photos. I look super cute and everything. And then none of them are in cars. None of them are with sunglasses on and none of them. Are you trying to look like a playboy centerfold? So I think those are all really big pluses. Did you have anything about like what you're looking for like hookups? You know, I I didn't. I just sort of talked a little bit about myself like tried to create like a picture in a story about what kind of person I was nothing about trying to double my number in the next twenty four hours or anything like that. And I don't really know why that didn't occur to me because I was looking for that in everyone. Else's profiles. Like, I match on people who were like looking for hookups. Okay. Mentioned they were building ships. Polly was like, yes, interested interesting. Okay. So you weren't necessarily putting your profile that you're looking you're filtering out of that. And then what about the messages, you're sending back and forth? Was it pretty straightforward. Hey, I'm looking to hook up tends to be a little bit different for every person. Like when I got back from Arizona. I was the Tinder profile was burning up. And I was texting a bunch of different people. Flirting outrageously within crazy people who are sending me dick picks and stuff. And I was like I don't know if this is really where I want to go with this. And they wanted pictures of my vaginas like no not going to do that. I think I had phone sex with that guy. Yeah. Who who who wanted the picture the Jonah in indicate that we didn't that didn't go anywhere just as well. And but you weren't getting dick pics. Already in might like twenty plus years dating. I just got my first dick pic the other day. I s stranger on Instagram, so. So. I don't. And julie's. But so I guess like since you bought back back to Kansas. What's been lifelike? Then my mother and sister, and I lived together like Lucy mon- Montgomery novel. So you know, I don't have a lot of privacy. And of course, they are used to me being a very good Mormon and don't want me to have sex here in the house, but they know you're having sex now. Yeah, they just don't wanna see it. And I think it's inappropriate God to bring someone here. So you told them about this change. I didn't tell them very well. Like when I spent those first two nights with the guy from match dot com. We did it at my sister's house 'cause she was out of town. And I was gone all night, and I texted my family. And I said, I'm fine naturally. They were very freaked out. And my mom was a nervous wreck. She stopped for sure I was dead or something horrible happened. So I didn't really break it to them very gently very easily because I didn't know how. And I knew she would just be so disappointed in meeting. So I was just like, I'm fine. I'm fine instead of like explaining exactly what was going on. And how does your mom feel about the situation? Now, I mean. Very very close when we're very tight and we've been to a lot together. And we're not the kind of people who really like have grudges or who like can be silent in mad for days on end. We get over our anger, really fast. So she was sort of like awkward and uncomfortable for a few weeks, which is quite a lot for us to being that upset about something for so long. Even though I'm sure in her heart of hearts, you know, she she's praying every day that I'll see the light again comeback to the church and all of these things. She's also kind of just happy for me that I'm happy in that. I'm living a life that pleases me. And when I told her about the sex, I had with this guy in Arizona, and then it was really good. She was grinning was happy for me. So the guy in Arizona had good sex with unexpectedly and surprisingly to me like talking, and we'll we were texting in. Then I told him as moving to Arizona, and he got really excited, and we started talking on the phone, and then it was like kind of escalating like we were moving towards an actual relationship. And I was like, okay. We'll that's exciting. Everything's. But hey, I actually have this day on Saturday. This all happened over the weekend on Friday. They have this day on Saturday. I made quite a while back before things started to go somewhere with us. And he just was all like a well, good luck with that. And he hung up on me. And I was like I don't understand why he thinks he has some right over who I can have sex with or some say about that kind of thing. Just because we have such he's gonna think the us having sex meant we had made some kind of deal. So what are you looking for right now? Well, what I'm trying to do. I think is cram like sixteen to twenty years worth of experience into a couple. So that I can move on to having a real relationship. Yes. Yes. I that's exactly my thought. I'm like you have a lot of catching up to do. Because. Most people my age ready to settle down. And so I'm already at cross purposes with type, you know, so I'm just trying to hurry up. And so I'm really kinda focusing on younger guys who are not interested in settling down because like with this other guy. He was a little bit older. He was definitely looking. He was telling me things, I barely know this guy, and he's telling me how he wants to be, but someone forever in seems to me, those are not the kinds of things you tell someone that you barely know that you met through a tender hookup. I thought I mean, the stereotype is that guys just want sex. I think everyone move I think most people want relationships in some people don't in those can be either gender. Yeah. In the you're looking for just sex, and you're not a man. So so what else is on your catch up? Lists will call this a catch up list. Yeah. Let's see lasts a week and a half ago. I met a guy on bumble who was in Pali mutation ship. We met at a coffee shop we talked for about an hour and went to the park, and he went down on me. Some check that off the list sex in public and. Just pure oral sex with a stranger awesome. That was great. And then this weekend last night. I met a guy from Tinder we met in we had pizza. We went for a walk. And then we went to the lake and made out in my car and had sex have stopped. This definitely Arizona things except flowing. Okay. I had a total random guy that I snuck into my house and had like if any of the sex they've had would be called bad. It would be that sex. Like, I didn't even have a good time. I gave him a good time. And I kinda liked that. And he texted. He's texting me several times went into get back together with me again. But I can't be motivated because I'm like s not can be out trying. You know, what though this happens to the best of us? You're just getting all at once. So wait way way. Even that is not does not bother me. I still consider that a success. I I had sex with this person. I gave my sister my sleeping pills because she was really stressed not sleeping. Well, I just harm. They're not like addictive, strong or anything. And I was all like, an useless. And you should listen to this guided, meditation and take these pills you. Can fall asleep. And then I snuck this guy into my house and we had sex and then I walked back out. Again. I was like I'll have done that don't need to do that again. So I've had sex with six people have had phone sex with two different people slept. Eight people. Can I ask I'm getting really close to the microphone right now. 'cause I wanna get intimate with helmet. We went down on you at the park logistically explain to me how that happened. Well, I sat on the picnic table and leaned back, and then he just kind of leaned over Ming, what time of the day was this. It was about nine thirty or ten o'clock at night were there. Other people around with park was this. It's a part. It's also connected to zoom in. It's pretty quiet. There was some teenagers that went by earlier. And then we saw Z worker at one point. But at the time back. Fifty of the incident. It was pretty quiet. I hold on to notes. So you said e people to fund sex six regular, what is the timeframe on this again, why don't we take a quick break? So I can tell you about some of the best mess CARA I've ever used that would be the caution mascara by our glass cosmetics. It's vans vegan formula never flakes. Smudges even after wearing it all day. The tapered brush delivers endless linked intense volume and lift it's a game changer. Y'all SF mentioned before I know where much makeup due to sensitive skin. So the little makeup. 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Now, the middle of October, and I had sex with this sixth person last night for total six in person to virtual so two months is that two months or three months while that is pretty good track record here. I am. So impressed right now. So I guess you mentioned like how your family felt about this? What about your friends like I know you had the one that was very encouraging era Zona, but what about some of the morm- Mormon raised friends? So my two really good friends that know about this each of these friends have been married for about ten or eleven years in each have four children in neither of them are LDS anymore. What is L D S latter day, Saint Mormon oh, okay. They only had sex with their husband and they've only had sex with their husbands occa-. So as as my one friend up in Oregon said you have surpassed me in tripled in like a week. Intern. Her husband, actually, they just they left the church like the same time. I did this summer, and they are contemplating opening their marriage because they're very very close in a make each other happy in a lot of ways, but also not in other ways. So they haven't really acted on it yet. They don't really know what they're gonna do precisely. But I think just feeling that freedom from the burden if you like you're trapped with this one person for the rest of your lines because children together that's been lifted off and she feels so much better. And I think he does too interested. I've been her about her whole experience in mind. And so that's been reflecting on me in. I'm what I'm looking for. So they haven't they've been relatively like understanding in a way, even though that they have a totally different background of being married for years. Yeah. They've been very supportive. I think my one friend in Arizona. They're both very supportive. I think the keep their concerns to themselves 'cause they're like decision to be safe. I think sometimes they're like. Oh careful 'cause they don't ever really express that the mostly they're just happy for me. And they think it's really fun until I keep me updated. Are you using protection? Good looks the mother very motherly came out thing getting on birth control was such a nightmare. I became more reaching feminist like all this is so wrong. If a man can go into Bronx store and pick up some birth control without getting anyone's permission and pay a couple of bucks for it. Why can't I get get? Someone's permission pay all this money. Why do you have to get someone's permission to go to the doctor in your old prescription? So what if you learned about yourself from the last two and a half months since you've been having said that first night with the match dot com guy when we're sitting in the park same park where the other guy went down. I mean, we can have ago we, you know, he has to hold my hand. And then he asked to kiss me. I was totally game for all of that. We started kissing. I was really into it. I wasn't scared. I wasn't inhibited. I was very aggressive. I guess you could say, and then I was all. Like, we were kasha, which we had some place to go. And I was like, I know me too. And then I remember my sister was out of town. We could totally go to my sister's house, I told her about it afterward. She was very understanding continues, a real sport. But anyway, answer 'cause my other sister who she she had sex when she was a teenager, and she did not did not live the same lifestyle that I did as a teenager. But anyway, so so we went there. And I mean, I just took my clothes off. I was completely uninhibited touched him told him what to do to me so answer to that question. What have I learned about myself? I mean, everyone is sexual everyone is or can be good at sex. But I kinda felt like I found my calling in life. It's like I'm really good at this though. This is so ridiculous. But it's but in my heart. I believe I'm natural. I'm just good at this. Yup. I told the guy in Arizona that had the really good sex with. He was all I how many people if you've been with like, do you hook up a lot and everything? Like, look, you're the third person I've had sex with ever like, wow. You're really good at it. So you said before that you knew how to like give yourself an orgasm. Like did. You watch porn you five raiders learn I don't know if this is actually true. But this is how I remember it. My sister, the black sheep of the family who is always watching are rated movies and stuff like that. She brought home movie American pie, and that rekindled my interest in masturbating, and I would read romance novels so just through experimentation using my hand I figured out how that all worked until so masturbated for years. I finally got over feeling guilty about that and feeling guilty for not feeling that guilty because that was really the as I don't even feel that bad about it. And I feel really guilty about. That it was going to say is that something that's like, a no, no in Mormon culture. Also, assuming. Generally, speaking standard is that, you know, you should not masturbate. But I imagine probably individually there some kind of leeway not how people really feel about that. And did you watch porn? I've only watched porn very much as an adult. It just doesn't do very much for me. Ultimately, that's interesting makers, everything you've done in the last few months are like categories on you porn. Get into the house. To spend money in wasn't worried about anyone knowing maybe I nine access to good porn, but what I have seen which is just like stuff on net flicks. I mean, I've seen a few like racy. I'm not accessing right Netflix. We talk about the same net. Flicks. Bromance? And then I think there's a category called steamy. And then there's like maybe five things to pick from that. Would maybe be called soft porn. Oh, good to know. The hottest thing was between these two girls. And one of them was wearing a strap on that one was pretty good. I thought that one kind of did stuff for me. But most of the time is that something he looks to with two is that something on your list, porn note with another woman or porn one. Like watching more porn, or when I listened to a couple of your dateable podcasts about the girl who realized she was a lesbian that in conjunction with my friend time about an open relationship. I was like oh my gosh. Maybe I need to people to me all of my needs. And I got really kind of plumbed by that. Because I thought my God, I can't find one person. Now, I have to find too. So under like one was impacted like you're finding more than enough people. Yeah. Fine. I want something more than just a good time. I would love to go to takeaways dogs. I think like one of my take is like your dislike experimenting kind of catching up now. In a lot of stuff. You said the evolution like, I it feels like you're trying to cram it into a short period of time, which is totally makes sense given your experience. But I think the reality is a lot of people have had maybe more years experience have gone through more longer waves of like just having casual hookups or not being in the mindset of relationship in the eventually that shifts. But I think what's interesting here is that you're trying to kind of navigate all of it at once. So it's just a different approach based on your background, my other Vegas. Takeaway is like your family on. This was kind of actually brought this up on Margo in elisa's episode of like just what you've been taught all your life might not necessarily be what works for you. And that could be religion. Or that could just be the way you were raised, but we all grow up with. School of thought. And then at some point you start questioning that school of thought do I really feel that way too. I really buy into these values. And I think that's something we should think about on a daily basis, and that's what makes us become stronger in our own identities is because we actually own up to our identities versus something no given to us. My takeaway is I think a lot of times when we are in between relationships were dating we say, we're like casually dating or we say, we're hooking up. But what we really should be saying is I'm experimenting right now. And I think that's a better state of being because what you're saying has really inspired me to think like, okay inbetween relationships or whatever you're looking for. There is a stage where you're like, I'm here to catch up with us some of the things I don't know about even though if you've been having sex Rabbin relationships where your whole life. They're still stuffy don't know about. And I think it's great to have that mindset. Hey, I am just experimenting. I'm not trying to date the same people over and over again lesson experiment and be curious with each other. And that's exactly what you're doing. I commend you for it yet. I think like a lot of times like are even stating with your friends, I have been in relationships for pretty much like years with one person only suckling person a lot of times what happens in those places, not always. But you wonder what else is out there? What other things would you? Learn about yourself or what experiences could you have. So it's important. I think in everyone's life, whether it's for a condensed period of three months or spread over three years, or whatever that timeframe is to experimented really get to know what you like. And what you need Pam. Do. You have any other takeaways from this whole experience. Definitely the thing about I'm learning. I'm experimenting in many ways. It can't answer. The question about what I want. I think maybe I'm starting to narrow it down. But but most being I'm just sort of in exploratory mode. That's what I've been telling people. So I told the guy last night so exploratory, and then the other thing too is what I realized was I needed to pay attention to what do I actually know based on my personal experience. Not what I have read or heard what other people think or say or experienced it has to be true based on what I actually know y'all end in what I know do not align at all with what I have been raised to believe in the church yet, or what they said, you know, what they said we'd be happy when make you happy was not what was making me happy. And when I realized that an left that lifestyle behind I just became so incredibly happy in free. And I I've always been a strong person in had a sort of strong sense of self. But oh, gosh nothing compared to how confident I feel now how where I am who I am. And what I want and how I interact with people. What makes me happy in the truest me so way better way to live. Yeah. I think probably like by other takeaway before we go to a question of the day is just like you don't ever really know anyone's experience the best thing you can do is just like live in that moment. Like the fact that so many folks that you had sex with had no idea that was your first time. It didn't go to yourself confidence or impact you in any way. Like, that's really powerful or able to kind of be your true self to show out despite any I would have to say, I kind of attribute that to my mother she never had hangups about sex chain was always very open and she talked to us about sex. And so I never thought sex was bad like a lot of Mormons have trying to be guilt en- hangups. But I never did. Of course, I read a ton about how to have sex when my mom found that out the other day. She was like my gosh. Of course, reg, I never read a book about sex. We were pretty good at it. And like different strokes for different folks, man. Never really had hangups that way. And I it a lot of that my uninhibited to her. Okay. Let's do a quick question of the Daf. That's when comes from navene JR. Says I'm a thirty one year old virgin in his making me self conscious about dating when I'm on dates I freeze up when it's time to give physical due to my inexperience how do I get over this and get more confident? Should I tell dates about my inexperience do I get to answer that question? I feel like I have tons of job. Please. Please give advice for her people are different a friend of mine. Who's actually in the same kind of situation. Who's about thirty three years old? Choose all like she asked me like do you get bored kissing because I'm like where is this going? I'm like, no, I don't get bored kissing. I think of kissing like yoga a meditation. Like, I just wanted to be in the moment in be present. And use my body to communicate something I could never say it with words, and I think the other thing too about kissing one. She can just follow his lead. Like, if he does something with his election, and she can just do that. With her lips. If he does something with his tongue. She can just sort of mirror. It also just like go for like. In. I don't know if you could really do it wrong. Right. As long as it's don't lie there lifeless. I've I've had guys. It's like, oh, man, you ca- SOGA, and I love kissing kiss. So good now say lots of girls is lie. They're like corpses. Their fish their lips are like dead. So I mostly know just move your lips around. He's your tongue. Yeah. I mean, I think like my thoughts on this is that you necessarily have to disclose this information either. Like, it's really your information. When you go on a date with someone you're not like, hey, I've slept with sixty five people. So why should you? Why should you also disclose your inexperience have slept with zero people? So I don't think that needs to be communicated. But I think we can all communicate what we do like and that comes from getting to know your own body. So when you are getting physical someone even though you're you have some sort of inexperienced, you can still say, oh, l like when you do that unlike it when when we do this, you know, where in your buttons are. That they need to push. Right. So definitely communicate that and instead of thinking about your inexperience go with what you know about your body. Right. And I like what Sarah said earlier like because of like years of getting exploring your own body, and like reading books, even like, you have some experience that might not be like in person to person experience, but it's something so like just playing off of that. And that combining it with what you like I'd be curious what you guys think from a guy's perspective. I know navene wrote in as woman, but a guy that has to be a little more in control. What are your thoughts? There of ways that they can get over the spare. Well, I haven't opinion on this to what I have found is that men are not very good at being in charge of most things work, much better. If I just take the lead. Okay. There you go done some fun girl has willing to take. Just fine. Sarah. You know, I think everyone appreciates a little bit of owner abilities always a little bit sexy in than tends to make you feel confident in. So, you know, if you expose a little bit of that in just say, what do you like or what do you want? An I I tend to ask that lot. What do you like what do you want harder? Softer faster slower. Ask a lot of questions. I think it definitely I see where this can be intimidating for man or woman, not having experienced past a certain age, but at the same time like I think the key might be to not over. Thank it. Like, I'm trying to think back to like my first time. And I think like when you're over thinking something like it tends to not go, sir. The way you have envisioned, but if you're just let colleague let your body move in a bit more free form than things can just go in the way. That naturally proceeds I really love that. I think our bodies have a lot of intelligence that we need to turn our minds off. And listen to our bodies a lot more. We listen to our own bodies than we listen to our partners bodies. No have the experience to lead than you can have. Them lead by asking them, those quite Evans like Sarah was mentioning what do you like what do you like it when I do this? How does this feel constant feedback will help you just pay? They're just providing a guideline for you in just take it. Also, I think the thing to note is even if you slept with like satellite, hundreds of people, right? Like, not everyone's the same new experience the same anyways. So I think getting caught up that you haven't had a lot of experience actually almost relevant because your experience is going to be the first time with that person anyway going. Yeah. And I only got so true. I always say, you know, your number is not so much definition of how experience you are. Because you could be with the same person for ten years have tried everything on the planet, but your numbers still one versus being with a hundred people doing the same position the same regular sex all under times. So it's the number's not indicative it's more about how how in tune you are with your own body and your. Body in. That instance, I think it's a key is just getting out of your own head. Yeah. Alright, let's wrap. This update you so much Sarah for shearing your sexual escapades vaca. Pay. Sexcapades? I took lots of notes I'm so inspired to dry your bucket. Lists. Scary right. It's a little scary to just do these things. But it's awesome. To also be like, I am in control my life, and this is my life. Now, I'm going to be present. And I'm gonna be bold about it. We invite our listeners to also tell us about what are some the bold things. You've tried recently. Let's all inspire each other to be curious and to experiment. So we love to hear from you. And have you as a guest on our show? Okay. We're going to wrap this up and stay low your action item for this week is to identify what from your past has been hindering your love life. Maybe it's the lack of experience. Maybe it's the mistakes you've made. And then we frame these hindrances as experiences have made you who you are today. Use your passes away to study your own personal development and own it want to continue the conversation. I tag us in any post with hashtag stay dateable, then head on over to our website dateable, podcasts dot com. There. You'll find all the episodes as well as articles videos and our coaching services with vetted industry experts. 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