Episode 78 Live Show at the Tarragon Theatre in Toronto

Automatic TRANSCRIPT

Yeah Hey sandy okay. So we're going to get right into it because we have a hard stop at two. I know a bunch of you probably going to see the play afterwards and and so this is really exciting. Because there's never we don't even see each other when record we talk on the phone and the ability of us to get together together in a room like this it's like it's revolutionary. It actually is. I see that we've got a real diversity of age in the room. There's folks in the room that remember a time where like community was normal that you would. You would spend time together right that you'd help each other out Out and there's a whole set of folks in the room for who communities like the headphones in sit on a subway. Try Not to look at anyone too much. Because they might think you're weird and you're not weird right and this is characterizing what life has turned into for so many of us and so the opportunity for us to be in a room together. I want to underpin how important that really is for our collective growth and also just feel good. I mean do you folks. You'll get sandy. You feeling good feeling mostly good. I mean I. I came in on a red eye last night or like this morning and then I got like two hours of sleep and here I am so I hope to be the funniest and most entertaining that I've ever been ridges which is like there's a higher probability of that was sitting next to her because she's funnier than that's good. But what are we gonNA talk about today. Well if you've been listening to the podcast you've been talking about the elections for the last couple of weeks in today. It will be no different because the election is very close. And there's been some things that have happened this week that we think that we should talk about but we're not just going to talk about the election we're also going to talk about the arts a little bit and how important it is for the arts to be involved in politics into reflect politics back to us in what how the arts can be a vehicle for social change because that's something that's really close to my heart and I think I think that we can all appreciate how the arts can really shape our world and so that's that's the setup that's right and so last October. Her last September October first. There was an election in Quebec provincial election. And I'm part of a left wing party in Quebec and this party always had really great connection with people when we talk to people about what we wanted to do with the province you know talking about free education and free transit and just transforming the carbon economy to be to be a sustainable economy. But we had this like perennial problem around artists. We could not talk to artists. There was a block and in Quebec City. I mean you kind of need artists. Those are the only people that are like cool because otherwise you're bureaucrat And everyone who's on the room that's cool too. It's I mean we need our taxes to be processed and we love them actually. We love the public services but we there was a there was a merger with with the Party which is called Quebec's leader with another party called upscale. SNL All and there there are plenty of artists and the collision of these. Two groups of people was incredible because all of a sudden we were able to capture the political align of this traditional Progressive Party in Quebec with the artistic expression of what does it feel like. What does it look like? When we're fighting against injustice? What does it look like? When we've won a something for once and I'll never forget being underneath overpasses in in Quebec City we'd placard set on easels and we had spray paint and we had paint and we invited anybody walking by to come and deface are placards in the middle of the election and we invited like ten street artists to come to show us how to do it without it being just like but what people created? It was so amazing that it became the look of the campaign the feel of the campaign and it just gave us that extra kind of spirit that we really needed to get past. Just talking about politics ticks all the time because my goodness politics are so boring and so we wind in the victory was enormous. I mean we won by eight thousand votes and if you're interested in campaign images and look look up Katherine Katherine Dorian. I guess in English and to to look at that aesthetic and I'm looking at the federal election and we're starting to see. See that with the excitement around Jagmeet Singh I think and it's it's launching people's aspirations for the old parties east to go away to just collapse hopefully maybe or to turn themselves into something different and I don't know Sandy Lake. You're you're not here anymore. More what do you mean your nine Schroeder. You've moved to United States. What are you seeing in this in the last last couple of weeks of this election like how has that artistic expression changed how people are looking or talking about being excited about politics? Oh that's a good question. I think that we are seeing like some art being made about what's happening in the election and in terms of like means and things that are people are sharing online that are really hopeful and and are trying to drive like a message about What are what the possibilities are for our future? And that is what I think is so important about the arts being Engaged in politics when we were gone is anything so much of what we organize is has to be done in conjunction with artists. And I'm talking about black lives matter here Because we always want a vision for what's possible in the future to be a part of what we do when we're organizing and I'm seeing not quite the same level Shirley in what's happening in politics right now but I'm seeing some people engaging in that way and that's so important because you could feel you sense of despair about the way our you know our society's organized or the way that politics is going and know that there's something wrong but it's the artists is that will help us put together the the logic behind that and how we could what sort of vision for the future we could create and I think I did that so so so important. And you folks I mean we we read the script for the play that you're about to see and so you folks will hopefully see that a little bit of that afterwards as well Other things also happened this week. We yes they did they did did so. There is the french-language debate. Yeah did anyone watch the french-language debate a Little Cup of tea per demolished demolished off. No cable and of course speak French. I'm so bad at it. And of course we watch the English language to be did and you heard US talk about it. Maybe okay. Yeah so we actually. I would say that this week was like Assche ift night and day or day tonight like total difference. Has anyone else noticed that took. If you haven't we'll spell it out for you but there's been there's been a shift in the way that the parties are engaging so one to meet obviously is is doing very well and I think the you know the political media is recognizing that and we're seeing a massive search and so the Liberals are responding to that in a really interesting way oh are they trying to flank them on the left like they always do absolutely absolutely the nine. No that's not what's happening. They have gone to the right. Has Anyone else noticed that in this week the rhetoric that the liberals have been putting out which is again we are constantly criticizing the liberals on our show. Oh and like this is it this is. There's no real philosophical underpinning. It's just Kinda like which way the wind blowing today. Okay don't think we're going to be able to get those votes from Jimmy. But you know shears doing pretty pretty bad. So let's take those votes instead and that's kind of what's happening happening if you've been paying attention so there was an announcement in Quebec right like order known. Judo did some sort of or something. Yeah it wasn't an announcement so the French language debate and the way that the debate was organized quite calm. I mean a health. Most the post didn't speak French so they're kind of like that really brings down the temperature in the debate. Ah But they were not. There was no open season for six people to argue with each other. Always three on three and they mixed up the threes and And in one of the three on threes true just kind of was like you know what I totally support Quebec's immigration system because Quebec is the only province that manages immigration system mm-hmm. It's like okay and I fully support Quebec's right to screen immigrants. which if you live in Quebec and you're watching this debate we have a government that wants to impose a a French test on immigrants which is ridiculous because the most immigrants that come to Quebec come from where France right the come from France and if they don't come from France they come from French speaking countries I mean the by far the most immigration immigration to give comes from people who speak French and and so and then they're talking about a values earliest testing so trudeau knows this? I mean I wouldn't expect folks in Toronto to necessarily know this because it's kind of inside baseball politics within Quebec but does this and he was like yeah. I support Hort Quebec's ability to even further control their own immigration and after the press conference in English meteorology different questions. The rebel media was there and being all racist and good and the French journalists seized on this very. He's very quick moment of true because he wasn't responding to anything he just. FYI Way. I'm cool with what the CAC is doing. The CAC is our governing party. I mean it's super funding English. Actually but it's not that funny to tackle the time in French and sorry Mr. Trudeau like you support a values test and he was like well. I support Quebec. He has little sentence he says. Quebec's reducing migration. I support Quebec's right to control their immigration. It's a good thing and so he didn't necessarily say. I support the language test of the values test. But he's playing with with fire and I. It's very fascinating because I think you know it's all happening in French. I don't necessarily supposed to get outside of Quebec. I don't think that this is because it is is such inside baseball. I don't know if he thought that English journals would follow up on it. But I've seen a lot of liberals Tommy Ono. He said that that he's not supporting the values test. He's supporting the right to do. A values test very important distinction. And and he wouldn't even condemned the test because it doesn't he's like I duNNo. I'll I'll I'll let you know if I can done the test when he sees it. Even though this has been something that has happened for years and the last discussion about what would be on a values test was like as racist as you can imagine it would be so. It'd be very simple for Trudeau to say you know what. I think that this is going in the wrong path I would. I support Quebec right great to do this to have immigration. This is wrong and we need to change us. He didn't say that of course not but he did tell me that. He's not doing enough on racism just like it's it's just so it's like let's just throw everything to the wall and see what sticks and but the other thing that they've done is they've created these new materials you've seen this but they've created these new materials that were they've they're talking about their stance on on migration and so now the liberals have added to materials that that they're gonNA stop asylum seekers who come in the wrong way like who are like you know. They're adopting the language that the Conservatives have always talked about you know people jumping the queue or or like getting into Canada the wrong ways and other liberals have adopted that language. They're they're very much like we need to go after conservative voters. And it's like yeah. I know we all noticed that sheer tanked in the debates. Like he's obviously a shitty politician. Like Wow oh wow. What a rhetoric shifty? 'cause like what is this guy known for like if nothing else the lie that Canada is like super welcoming of refugees and welcome to all the refugees since trump said No more to people from these particular countries. which if you're not a regular listen to listen to our podcast talked about how that's not true and how that a false narrative that's not what the liberal government did and in fact had one the largest detentions of of of migrants during his his term When a lot of Haitians were coming up? Threw Rocks Rawson Ruxton road but that that that narrative has foolish shifted. Now now. They're talking about making sure that people are not not jumping cues or or like the the non existent cue that conservatives often talking about which is another funny little reminder of how the rhetoric of the Liberal Party does not match what they do because they will match. We'll we'll probably in the last three years their immigration policy. I mean if you look. At the number of Syrian refugees that came to Canada a a majority came from private sponsorships which the government has nothing to do with. And if anyone in the room is involved with private sponsorship you know how difficult and how stressful that process really is and they. They decreased the number of refugees that Canada will accept. They went back to the targets that that were created by Steven Harper and they want to strengthen the third party agreement the third country safe third country agreement with the United States where anybody coming from United States is just not allowed in Canada period whereas right now if you cross into Canada outside of a port of entry year at least processed and so I think the the the the the rhetoric which we're living in we're swimming in it and what we see on the day to day and this goes from the question of immigration refugees. He's from cost of living from the environment. It doesn't match up and we're told to like believe something that we can feel is not true. You and I like a lot of people call gas lighting. I guess I mean saying. I have some critiques around. The word about how it's used because it's always used and it could be just being lies. Lies is a good word are too but but it is. It actually is intended to make us question our cognitive abilities or experiences experiences. The experience of our friends the experience of our family. And when you when you generalize that across the whole country it creates a really Lee sick culture of people not understanding why the lies just won't stop because they don't match up with my actual personal experience and then depending on who you are the lies dough match with your experience either in a major way or in perhaps different kinds of minor ways. But this is what's causing. I think a lot the cynicism around electoral politics because we can't trust anybody. It's not worth voting. Voting is boring. It's not GonNa change anything thing I mean. I mean that's all true. I'm happy to actually defend those lines but But we have to vote. I hope you vote. If you haven't voted already. They say that or else people will be like the but but how do we Canadians take back our political system from the hands of these parties that have just been. I mean controlling Canada since Canada was founded like the same party founded Canada. In all of its flaws I mean today in the Global Mail. Does anyone read. Go Mail in this room. You don't be don't be shy. Okay I read the Globe and Mail even though I should Okay so in their opinion section today listeners. No one raised their hands today. There was an article from a woman who was like okay and this is election weekend which time elections let me tell you a story about the grandmothers confederation. I'm like I'm there. And the like the Grandmothers Confederation where the wives lives and the daughters of the grandfathers of Jenner and it was like well the daughters would not be the granddaughters and so it just talks about like all this women. I'm in went to Quebec City for the second conference after Charlottetown to create Canada. I'm like okay. I live in Quebec City. That's cool and and Blah Blah Blah and Blah Blah Blah and therefore go and vote. And so is this. This construction like women have always been there and therefore we should vote right as if it's like what that's not an argument. That's the national national newspaper two weeks before an election. The they had wives everybody. We should vote. That's the message coming from our newspaper. A record right and they're not gonNA publish. My Shit has because they've took you telling me no so how do how do we shake shake them enough to be like a good. Yeah and so trying to try to find a citizen citizen power again. What is citizen power? Look like in an era where volunteerism is impossible. Because we're working timmy. Jobs where we're actually disconnected from each other more than we'd ever have been and where we think that social media is going to be the thing that saves us in terms of revolutionary organizing or even just organizing to confront a politician and even just is like sifting through the quagmire of what the politicians are saying is kind of getting more and more difficult than ours like talking about the media like this is what sparked this in my mind. It's like you know. Has Anybody seen the analysis that we just talked about with respect to the shift from the liberals like have you read it in the Toronto Star. Have you read it in the Globe and Mail. Have you seen it talked about. And I don't know the Huffington Post Canada or something. No Mcclain's like no. How do you shifts sift left through all of this? If the very places that we are meant to go in like the public sphere to get not even the CBC great not even our public broadcaster to get through this stuff isn't isn't doing the analysis for us come to our podcast. But I mean you shouldn't have to. You should be able to get it from our our mainstream media sources and another thing happened this week take from the media generally maybe even talks about this beforehand. We never talked about our podcasts. Before we start talking just Zeno none of this is planned. Rosemary Barton Oh yes that's what I'm talking about okay. So has heard about this. Okay Nora Tele weapon so there's been a couple of things and so I might get it wrong but my favorite thing and I thought that this was just so illustrative of where the is in with with election Coverage and so we are out of the polls say that we are out of majority territory for the Conservatives in for the Liberals which I actually am like super excited by me. I think that's chaotic. Good I am down with that. And and so you know the putting out there like they're kind of feelers to say this this is a non starter. You must have this as part of your plan for us to work with you. You cannot have this sort of your your plan for us to work with you right kind of doing the the negotiations before we're in a minority situation government which is great which is great which is how are terribly terribly. Flawed system is supposed to sometimes work. And so you know the Liberals are one party that the that the very Mir certainly only walk to work with right. And it's like obviously and so Singh was like yeah I'll probably work with the liberals under some conditions and Rosemary. Barton's Lake Nick. Jagmeet Singh is a hypocrite because he will work with a party that has bought a pipeline as if like if he became the prime minister he would be the defacto owner of a pipeline right. And those actually. It was a headline. It was a headline an online news. Thing it was like Jagmeet Singh zing promises to work with leader who bought pipeline or it was like it was ridiculous. It was like what that's not what I was talking about. But that was that's a really like illustrative of of the kind of thing that I'm talking about in net like. What is that supposed to tell us? What does that headline tell us? which is that analysis? Tell us it's like it's as you know I'm well I think actually the the media does one hundred percent not. I respect that many of us or expects that many of us don't know how our political system works which I think is true. I mean we. We don't really have much civic education as we're growing up and don't necessarily know what it means to be in a minority government. What types of negotiations have to happen and so on and so that sort of rhetoric just I dunno seems a little quick eighty lake? You get to say that. Somebody's a hypocrite without actually explaining like what happens in minority government situation When there does need to be some sort of either negotiation or the government falls right and so what a what a weird bizarre way to frame an issue yes but no? That's not what I was talking about. Do you have any. Thus is the fact that she's doing the Yeah Burton in the CBC are suing the Conservative Party. Take a laugh is about talk to him laughing but yes so. They are suing the Conservative Party for using a clip that she alleges ages makes her she alleges that this clip has talked to make her look like a partisan hack back I mean and then but she's doing a party like she does that on her own. This doesn't make any sense right so we went to journalists go ryerson so I learned all about neutrality. And how it's like completely bullshit. I learned that they taught does the opposite. And and and just this idea that we talked about this a lot in the podcast rate so the public broadcasters a very good good place for us to take the temperature on Canadian society in what mainstream Canada embalm quote unquote thinks is the average Canadian and Barton. I mean she comes off as a partisan to me every single fucking time she tweets. So I'm not exactly sure how so the it's the conservative saying that. She's a partisan we're just like. Aw I don't want to anger the Conservatives right. I vote for you guys to do that. And I mean it's actually great that you Guessed wrong because now we have this other example that we can point to write like. You're saying that you're trying to make a joke meeting out to be this hypocrite which is like so ridiculous I'm I'm not a partisan and I'm GONNA sue the Conservative Party. It's just it's so bizarre and it's just like one of these things that I'm just so exasperated by our media and I just want there to be better coverage sure of everything you know just everything I just want us to be able to sift through everything without having to do so so much work which I guess will never happen in this type of society but one can hope and dream. uh-huh yeah and so the the idea that there's like a normative Canadian. I think we need to keep this in mind with reading this coverage right. It's like this mythical fifty five year old white man from fucking Berry Ontario Right. That is who they write for. I I I mean I just picked. I could've said London or Windsor. Yeah and and you know if you're not if you're not the target audience Kinda hits you really obviously and you get you feel it right but the but it it's a self-reinforcing problem where we have no ability not to critically look at what's going on and that leaves us in this room. Many other people with with despair. Actually it feels like despair because because no one is saying what you're needing them to say no one is saying no one's giving you the analysis the that you need to hear like okay Eh. The Earth is dying all right. How many days do we have right? What what is being done in? Alberta accelerate our collective destruction right. Tell it to to me in these terms. Don't tell me that that there's been a year-over-year Prophets from the banks. Oh your of your profits from the banks. Where did they? Where did they make money from over me from my user fees right like Oh because they close the branch oh because they fired two thousand people and they're just going to put it all onto the computers now and again when you add this up across society I mean first of all it takes a lot like cut through with the bullshit so saying you're saying it takes a lot of work it also just takes a lot of time name which we don't have and and it leaves people going okay? Well I have to park my vote somewhere so I'm GonNa vote for Elizabeth Name Right or whatever. Whoever you're going to vote for for the elections are really good? Time for us to feel that excitement around politics and to be like none of this matters and so the second second this passes. I'm going to take that excitement and I'm going to get even more into the political work that I'm doing because either we push politicians is to do certain things or we don't and if we don't then they will not listen to us but every time in history that there has been a moment that felt desperate that felt unchangeable changeable or immutable. It was always changeable immutable by people organizing. That has always been how it happens and it always as feels impossible until it happens and and that's some of the work that we do in this podcast is to talk about how exactly to do it in through art is one way to do it of course and also just basic organizing which I think a lot of us have lost the skills to do. Unfortunately because we don't we don't know how to talk to people necessarily or we don't know how to organize people or we don't know how to name the exact person that is the cause of all of our woes which might be a gale Weston or it might be In my case Calvin elven Rovan askew with Air Canada. Because he's like maybe delayed by fucking thirty hours this week anyway or example. That's a hypothetical. Michael Calvin. I was looking at my facebook this morning and someone had posted that. They begrudgingly voted for the MVP today but we're really frustrated because there wasn't like a viable alternative that would really shift our society And I was like but there is there is the alternative is actually Louis US like the. There's never going to be that alternative at the ballot box. Like not the change that we want to see happens. The quickest when people force force it to happen. It's not from politicians. Promising it if you if you bank on promises like we're still waiting for childcare. When was that promise? The first time like in the nineties like the mid nineties sound like I don't know right like it's like you can wait forever or you can like get out into the streets or get into your community and talk and Organiz people. And put these policymakers these decisions maker these decision vision makers on notice that we're not going to accept a business as usual with whatever particular issue. We're talking about out. There is always a viable alternative. I used to think this way to where it was like. Oh God I have to begrudgingly. Vote and there's no alternative. But they're like the alternative alternativas us. It's a lot more work than just checking a box. Obviously and our society is set up so that we don't have the time to do the organizing that we really need to do. Maybe you're jumping from job to job. Maybe you've entered the GIG economy because that's all that's available and you're really struggling with time sleep deep and so on that is all built into the system so that it's difficult for us to organize but for those of us who can for those of us who can create those spaces aces wherever they are like. I look at the examples of like the lift drivers organizing a union. That's should be impossible. Astle right like the way that it set up the GIG economy. It should be impossible to be able to organize a union amongst A. Ah People who are doing these ride share APPS. But they've done it like it's totally possible. It's really difficult. But that's the alternative organizing ising in as many ways as we can as much as we can to to really transform the systems uh-huh that control. Our everyday lives is the alternative and we cannot see voting as like just the thing that we do. We can't can't so I just wrote a manuscript for booklets GONNA come out next year so you have to buy it okay. And it's it's a book. That looks sat that that well. It's a book that says there's no feminist movement anymore in Canada that it's been dead for years and gives the analysis this of what we've lost as a result and why things are so wacky so why can trudeau stand up and say he's a feminist with Oh being expected to be pelted by eggs. Right that's the. That's that's the book and one of the things that I didn't know much about but what I was writing. It was the fight that one abortion access in Canada. And and how you know. Abortion was decriminalised in nineteen sixty nine which meant that. You can have an abortion if you could pay for it which obviously meant that the politicians could pay for abortions wins for their secret lovers but poor women could not right and so there was does anyone about the Abortion Caravan. No Wow okay. Yeah a little no no so so a bunch of activists in British Columbia around a group at Simon Fraser University. Where like we are driving to you Ottawa? And we're GONNA decorate our van with abortion looking stuff not like the anti-choice movements and there. They drove ooh to Ottawa. This one thousand sixty nine. They took their inspiration from the on to Ottawa Trek. Which I'm sure you all know about as well no so the onto on to Ottawa? Trek was the nineteen thirties Where men were being put into labor camps and they were working under terrible conditions and and Communism was spreading in a super wicked way and the men jumped on the rails and they went to Ottawa to try and make their lives better? So so the the activists in the sixties like. We're going to do that in the the Abortion Caravan and get to Ottawa. And and we're talking. You know women who I think it was all women who were like nineteen twenty twenty one and they get into the House of Commons and they like high chains under their skirts and in their purses and stuff. You can actually hear the clip from the world at six from when this happened. It was mother's Day in one thousand nine hundred sixty nine. Seventy seventy seventy one anyway and and so they're just start chanting and the House of Commons and the world that six reporter was like his street and pandemonium hs made today in the House of Commons. And you no it's women really season activists so literally like abortions kill abortion illegal abortions kill and you're like whoa that was so powerful and and then they had this rally at the at a at Parliament Hill and Pierre Trudeau was was the prime minister and he was pissed. Because it was like you. Ungrateful Ladies Decriminalized Abortion. What the fuck you want? And so he tried to he he goes back to the court. Caravan goes goes back home and they have this meeting which is also recorded. And and he's like I did what you wanted. You can have your abortion and women's room says not like you can pay for an abortion mister mister. Prime Minister Trudeau poor. Women cannot and he says so right that the Royal Commission on the status of women the abortion fight the fight against domestic violence if I for childcare that all kind of in the nineteen seventies which then created what we what we understand to be the women's movement but even then what was it that got us access to abortion in the end. It was direct civil civil disobedience setting up clinics that did it illegally that we're constantly raided by the cops. That's the only thing that did it and the women's movement collapsed after after the victory in one thousand nine hundred eight to decriminalise abortion partly because a lot of white women were like well. I'm good I got my Boertien out of here and also because when you you don't have that big fight like sometimes coalition's collapse and the women's movement never came back in the same way I mean. It continued for a couple of years into the into the nineties and then an a an collapsed by the end of the nineteen ninety s and the turn of the century. And so I say the story because I mean it's one of those accesses that we have in our minds that's like totally our a right to have access to an abortion and that came out of a struggle that seemed impossible that came out of a struggle that require people to go to jail that require direct action that required courage and then what happened this week. The only private abortion clinic and New Brunswick is announced to be closed because unlike the United States where legal old versus illegal is the big issue in Canada. It's not illegal versus legal. It's access that's funded because it's a public service. And when we defined hospitals when we defend and private like cataract surgery and knee surgery in hip surgery we also privatize abortion services because those are all para medical services and so we are still in that fight in fact it's getting worse. We're still fighting for maternity leave. We're still fighting to expand paternity leave. You folks don't have child. Oh care I mean I have seven dollars a day. Childcare which is by the way amazing I mean I would pay like one hundred dollars a day because I mean kids lake. Drive me crazy but I mean my kids but like the difference in the society that has access to seven dollars a day care versus does not as is incredible is incredible cool and not came through struggle through organizing and through having good arguments and through really hard work and even stuff like education. I mean we both both worked in a post secondary education advocacy a lifetime ago. And you can see in this country like the effects Of having boots on the ground really organized movement to force change by just looking at the accessibility of post secondary education across across the country. The places where there's the most organized strongest movements have the lowest tuition fees and the places that don't have the highest like that's how it works. It's not it's not because one party is like necessarily surly a thousand times better than another on education though that may be the case. We'll see like there hasn't been very good. Promises says with respect to the election education besides the Greens promising free tuition But the difference is in accessibility. Eighty are are literally because of the ability to get people onto the streets and force politicians to to either make a change or to acquiesce. Es To what our demands are as people and so obviously in Quebec students are really organized and take to the streets anytime. There's spur spur that there might be an increase to tuition fees and as a result They have the only free education in the province of this as Zaps in candidate through the sage system. THAT'S A POST-SECONDARY FREE POST secondary education and the lowest the lowest or as Newfoundland right now the lowest I think they're the lowest tuition fees. It's either Newfoundland or Quebec the lowest fees in the country. So we have to wrap up soon and I think that the way to end is to talk about joy and how one of the things that attracts me. To living an activist life is the fulfillment and the joy that it gives me because I find it fulfilling and joyful and and injecting jammed into the stuff we do so sandy. I know you've done a lot of joyous things in your life. What what was one of the things that brought you some of the best joy intensity intensity so if you're not familiar was An action that we did black lives matter did right outside the police station when we were we. Were trying to get some policy changes in some the media to pay attention to a particular case where The police killed Andrew Angelescu a black man outside his apartment within seconds of arriving to the scene. And so we did this thing who we see we created an occupation Nathan Phillips Square. You might not know because if you if you saw like the the news and everything with respect to to this action. It was in front of the police station we actually did it at Nathan Phillips Square. I like that was the idea and it was. It was fun. We had like a day of concerts planned. We also plan to end the action within in six hours. It ended up being two weeks so it was fun. Though lake that's part of Riley you can only continue to do something that's so hard because it's like the hardest one of the hardest actions of ever planned it if it's fun if there's joy there if people can come together and generate some sort of like magic together and you know we. We were having so much fun that night and we didn't get any media because Rob Ford died that night and you I mean I laughed. Rob Rob Ford died that night. So we didn't get any the media and the police moving in and it's Nathan Phillips Square so it's kind of far off from the street and no one can see us all these cops and we were just like you know it'd be really funny. Funny is if we went to the police station into their instead because it's probably safer. It's like closer to the road. It's like you know better in terms of like the message that we're sending and Ha- wouldn't that be hilarious and then so someone says that at around ten PM or something and we're all laughing about the possibility of that and then two hours pass and we're like let's go fuck into and we did it and you know like the sustainability of that action literally. Those two weeks was only because because we were able to generate so much joy I remember I was at this event for Some like labor union organizing at some point alive dear. Maybe and Angela Davis was there and she was like. Oh I want to hear more about the Toronto chapter. Tell me what's going on at that particular titular moment I was feeling really shitty and I was like Oh and she was just like Oh no you have to find the joy again. She's like like the the the thing that takes us through organizing and she's been organizing her whole life right. She's like the thing that takes us through. Organizing is the joy and you had it at some point because you guys have been so successful so you need to find the joy again like go back figure out how you can find it. Go back to the community. Figure out how you can generate the joy together because you'd never get it alone you can't just go find it. It's something that comes from being together and what a great way to like rapids back around to the beginning like being together is a way to generate joy. You can't do it alone. That's part of why the isolation of the way that our that our world is being constructed attracted right now in the direction that we're all moving in society to become more isolated feels like despair and why we have like these mental health issues. That seem I'm to be getting worse and worse. We need to come together to build that joy and to to organize to get rid of all the stuff stuff that's creating the despair in the first place. I'm just going to say my favorite moment was we are closing Gold Street. A Ryerson University as three and so called street was kind of a minor street had no purpose but the city and the university. We're like we're not doing this. And so we had a multi year campaign to close it and and one morning to close it. We ordered a bunch of sod and we covered the street with grass and because students are kind of like you know it's eight. Am You're right. They head down. They didn't notice up and it was just like oh right we brought soccer balls Hula hoops oops and people were able to go onto the street in their bare feet and and enjoy it and allow people to see that it was possible now. We almost got charged with vandalism vandalism which was the only thing they can nail on us but but that street closed in the morning and you know of course it's been closed now for eight years. It was a huge success. So so that's the show the show and if you don't know about sending dot com check us out. This was a free show funded by our patriots. So I do have to the hope if you've got some money Feel free to check out. PATRIOTIC DOT COM R. E. N. dot com slash Saniora. Every dollar that comes to us like helps with recording and producing and doing stuff like this so thank you so much to the playwrights. I hope that the play today and of course you don't see it. Today is is wonderful well and as well to Tehran for thinking about us in for inviting us. Yeah Yeah

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