How to build a sustainable city: lessons from Singapore, with Estelle Forget
Hi and welcome to sustainability explored about Gaston Sustainability of innovation in business and economics at blaze where we explore all the sides angles and shapes of Sustainability Mighty. Ms Nina and. I'm the podcast of the show. You're listening to the episode thirty one season three and today we have a super interesting discussion coming up on the concept and key components of sustainable and smart cd with the examples of Singapore. I invited aesthetic. Fauchet known and established professional in the fields of urban planning and Smart Tedium Climate Change and sustainable development for this episode. Estelle is the founder of Couples Institute Laboratory of Multidisciplinary Innovation of the sustainable city and regional. Planning Erica police come next. Architects engineers city planners sociologists economists and other actors to create a collective intelligence for the benefit of the innovative vision of sustainable development of the territory or the seats. Their collective ideas make it possible to said the specifications of the public order to which the companies respond during tenders style is also an associate of the economic social and environmental console and as well and Knight of the Order of Arts and letters for her innovative work in the context of police and in particular train all future architects into southern twelve. She founded stuff planet. Muhak which specific specialized this in sustainable development business support and we will touch a little bit the topic today the topic of Malkin CD development and the differences between Casablanca niece for example Into southern and fifteen. She helped to organize the climate change. Conference Cop Twenty. One of the United Nations for the French government French climate teen she mobilized both private companies and public institutions to work together and create a good outcome for the global climate agreement. I can't wait to get this interview. Started feeling very lucky privileged and super excited to talk to US tell today I wholeheartedly inviting you to join our discussion and sailed through it together with us. My guess. Today's budget Today we are talking about sustainable. Smart sieges a Stanley's originally from France. I had the lot enjoyment while doing background research on her and beaten the articles and videos which videos infringe now established based in Singapore which the best place to learn about Sustainable models of sieges women sustainability and. I'm hoping for a very fruitful and interesting discussion and it's always interesting for me to learn how my guest guilt got into Sustainability Studies. I know that you have started from lawyers practice. You did something in finance. And then what moved you what? How was your transition towards sustainable? Cd's thank you And not to invite me in this task for us. In fact I was interesting. Buy Low when I was young. I was also curious Sir by economy and the finally because I was born in nineteen seventy four. I always knew the crisis. And the at this time might chose was pragmatic avenue. Secure job and after seven years on the bone can finance sector. I would like to give Mo- meaning of my life and the decided to go back to university and to do what I love to do learning because I have a would going personality I seen. I love care about hotels. Michael League Advice me to today's development and at this time. I didn't know anything about sustainable developments who I resume lies with master degrees in sustainable development at the University. Pavlou she know and what I learned during this master changed my life totally I wanted to change the world and contribute at my level to build the bitter world and the during the study trip in Nederlander I discover Yuban planning. I realized that I found my coyly wire. Finally the reason is clear. If sustainable development impact every single every scene is the in the city I e means People Food Transportation Energy Economy social community. Everything is in the city and We need to find a balance to help people to be balance if the Design people cannot feel whaler and the city can be prosperous environment as a direct impact on our behavior and the mindset and it is very useful for me to have a background in low and finance to address the issue of the sustainability especially for city and territory were governance and the economy of very Santa's as well political issue in your definition. What is a sustainable city as sustainable city or follow my point of view as Houston about teaching? Need to integrate busy seeking. But it's very important to reminded. I mean a sustainable city I need to have a good design and unintelligent your run planning and intelligence. You're planning with an integrate integrated vision. What will be for example my country on my city in two thousand fifteen the firstborn tease whoever long vision long-term vision and for example in Singapore. We know that in two thousand fifty on the right now. It's a ongoing disease. The country of the smart city. And the you know. Maybe the Sheila's author cynic Count Essay Down New Federal Window for one. Who doesn't know where it's going? Whatever the country of the city the preservation of the natural and biodiversity is a censure and Yuban planning or Dorado A to define a fair place for human as part of the biodiversity which doesn't mean that the earth is only the the UN home trust. It's a long vision. Saddam is to integrate the preservation of natural and the bio biodiversity. That was a decision. Should be translated into into a messed up. Land set included infrastructure and services provide from a population of rice. Show around three thousand people. What it doesn't mean that at the local level you cannot be creative. I explain new data Quite technical because I eat. Your vision is not translating the master plumber with long-term vision and the infrastructure antiquated inside. And you care about the population ratio about three thousand people on the local level. You cooled of Ubon Development Very Very Archaic and the and the bad but the a c t for me sustainable. Ct must meet the principal. Need of the people as defined in domes- slow he a need says Theresa Chaz needs Social needs stimulates self actualization needs. Only for my punch. You wants to have some D- Master planned you may consider using new technology over technology is only on the AD. Owner technology cannot heal the city. That have been badly designed. It means that long vision integrated biodiversity and the and the preservation of land to be at the service of the population and to find a solution for the need to translate the vision in the masterplans with the infrastructure at the level of a smaller ratio of population. And I think it's very important for me to explain the bags Dabezies also European planning before to talk about smart city and new technology because Yuban designer like her medicine for the city and the technology. It's like a vitamin and the as you know. The timing can play a big role to manage the city to promote new services to the possibility to have more efficiency. Seventy bets You cannot put determine with body didn't Yeah I know that. You're the head of for Young Company consultancy at a couple of days Given that would you just mentioned the design is very important. Technology comes afterwards if we start with the design who is in charge of taking these decisions. Who is the driving force of seeking transformation? Which kind of body organs government government's? Where where does it start? Where does your company enter isolate? Think that I When I talk about the vision. It's not necessary envision confront professional division for me to come from Gouvernement. Why because our elected usually by the population and the need to know and to explain what they want. The country for example told the future yours and your question is very interesting because it's a way for me to try to explain the the responsibility between each people in the supply chain of the smart city of the fabric of the city because sometimes it's not clarify and the when it's not clarify. This is terrible on the on the local site but I is the government all Mayor Vision. I want to be. I want to to do night. City I want to build my city my country smart all. I want to be of my citric city Ikea Tropicana city. I don't know whether you were and after that this translation. It's a walk between three kind of poppulation. I governments gone professional and so popular action and Danny to work together. I two as the need to population and usually provisional can ask the need to the population in linguist gouvernement to find the best solution. What is the innovation at White Camp? Sign the bit solution for Almir territory ends up after that that created a master planned but the first input it's politics but of course the political decision needs to be adapted to the needs of the population. The program on the city is usually you have. You can have a mayor you want to to create an economic building in the in the city and at the end just to be for him for the population. This is only and the. It's for these reasons that you can preserve this kind of a situation is your vision is clear down and the dissolution is button right. You're just the politicians come and or the mayor is there for four years of supposedly. He doesn't take usually the long term decisions. I want to completely remake the city. So that it's comfortable first of all. Ben Sustainable Than Smart Than Integrated Technology. But they always start with nine one this bridge or one this economic building and that will be. I will be remembered for that. Where does this change from mental change should come from that? It's the question of goods. What is interesting in Singapore? I can give you a concrete example incident gap pool. Singapore's asks you ten years old. It was not contrary at the end. It was a small island with a lot of Slammed I c. h. e. percent of the population lived in the in the today fifty years little eighty one percent of Singaporean. As living in the age you are owner of the house. It's very interesting to seize that Lincoln. You the father of singer who as a real vision for his country but division was not five years six years. You was for one hundred years because he considered a designs that senior post story when he passed away. Singapore steel continue on its case and digging for long-term vision and each ten years. Division changed a little bit. But it's the only solution to sing globally the city and you're right. The electoral calendar for the mayor is a real problem. But it's so decisions when I talk about Vision Divisions Continue and the mayor need to understand. Here elected do population just to edge. The people to be appeared in the city to leave well during vast. You know what I mean but yeah. I think that this is the first problem when you talk about a sustainable city and its decisions at Of Today on the world I never a given I. I don't know a sustainable city because a lot of initiative very interesting and we can talk about it but at the end because the problem is the short term vision. It's complicated to to a real assistant city because the need can change depending of the need of the population because as I explained the need of the population is the mass low needs. Of course this population changed and now we are. We use new technology and human needs the basic needs to the same. It's to hit to to move to you. Know regarding this need is not complicated too long vision to plan New Territory End. Twenty grade or saw the demographic change like a prospective in fact the two factor. I is division. What do you want to do? And signals a factor is the evolution of your demographic and after can plane. You know to be to sing the city and to be In charge of to be Yuban planner. It's the Knicks of the missing in one hundred. Secondly it's a prophecy because you don't know what will be the recent of the decisions at EU thicke right now. The result will be in the future. It's all these reasons. I two of long vision into play to plan for the long term. It's very important because you can just write in your team in a couple days. What kind of professionals come under the same roof to do been played in sustainable urban planning side twee are most talk catalyst to create the city right now? You need to have a lot of competency of skills. And what is complicated? It's to look for a while in the same direction and to manage the the difference. Kill for example. We can bring some architect. Your Ben Planner Economists Ingenieur note of engineer. A Lotta lots of kids and the out job is to be like a cat at least From the social perspective what makes a CT safe? I think that the first point is education and prevention if his a by education and Prevention Yuli meet the risk of insecurity in the city disinclined to we'd be maybe due to protect people and technology. I sink can help to educate and improve a wellness and those who to onto the risk for example regarding the Dorsal sees that as a French company as developed A DASHBOARD FOR EMPTY-HANDED SEVERAL CITIES TO EPA Mayo to manage the CIT in real time for example. In your time you can change the duration of the red lights battles on the traffic. You can monitor utilities by bullying make recommendations to reduce for example water on the energy consumption and the also you can for example a look at the the elderly people who aren't shows Dass Chilean life by shaking the use of utilities all doom. Cg SAFE now three Peter. I think that's really education and prevention low of course and the new technology. You know a- curious that you should mention Three distributors for the safety and specifically mentioned technology Came to my mind that this is how a Singapore combat nineteen because they were able with the use of Technology Cameras. Big Data A to trace every infected citizen or lead. They found one infected and they can trace back everyone who they contacted with him. This is one of the reasons they were able to flat curve. So I so what? What's your take on the technology and I A- pro or against you think it's GonNa do humanity in the city any good or shall we rather start being paranoid. I devote I believe in in progress. Fourth and with these regards. New Technologies are definitely in barrels of progress. If and only if we use it to under good based on the for the good cool technology as I explain can aid to be more virtuous Tool dangerous depending on. What will we critics? Give me you wanted to leave. I don't want to leave in a dystopia in the world as described in the Novella Nineteen eighty-four from Joel and the I'm not fun to monetize. The data is a real business for compagnie right now but for me it's bad business and sustainable we. We need to preserve the snug data as global public. Good for my point of view but I believe in progress and to take your exemplary level Singapore and the coronavirus. It's not just a question of the technology disappoint was the question. I think of the trust with the government population development because development of Singapore are very proficient And That explain very well clearly. In remember in January I give a lot of information and we take care. Each foser and after technology was very good to tracking of course and to help to win you sink about trade king for example so where suit to prevent the other people that you are in Be Seek ended. So it's not too bad at some point on your career. You organize launched an initiative with a miracle miracle You to a group of students from France Being went into Morrocco to Casablanca the group from Moroccan Students K over Moroccan students came to France to exchange ideas. News Eliot Denise unless you're visited Esab Lanka and I was surprised to say the least. How different they somewhat similar. Seated is using their waterfront. In niece uses long prominent people have access to the beaches to the water. They run along the shore and in Casablanca that that is just blocked by concrete fans. No one knows what has happened in behind. There is no view on their ocean. There is no way to see the water. I remember reading a book on Urban Planning on. Sustainable fifty in someone was saying if the city is blessed with water access. It should use it for for common reiter so. I grew up with this ideals the water in Ctbt River Sea and ocean is the big is a great blessing. A what do you think is the reason for such a different approach. In similarly same CDs like Lease Casablanca L. Regarding the cheap penny of Casablanca and the niece for example disease found no seen prevents secons. Ceelo or the keys from mckinney. Who'd yoga planning decision and accept the like a vision competency or technical capacity to integrate global issue? And you're right and it's for this reason that the beginning I explained that division is imposed on the planet occasion. The plan is important. Also because when it's designed in in the concrete it's down you cannot change. It's not like you have a draw on the packer it's done it's finished it's the case in Casablanca but the the for me. It's a lack of vision competency and technical capacity and the it's showtime vision for example as you know in case you are being more better. It's interesting to for the business but it's not the global of vision you but at the same time Casablanca till Casablanca and it's a beautiful Oughta city. I get to see because I didn't feel safe on the sloughed. This is also you know. It's a siege. Like any other pets. I couldn't be there low but it's true that sometimes you have been planning X. Quite a specific to Morocco and the between the same time in France. We have also Nin In cities. I seem that the problem of lack of vision and competencies of technical capacity is not the problem of one country bachelor snowball and regarding the student we do in Casablanca. The project was to find a life of the whole the slaughterhouse at 'twas to promote miracle American heart and the artist one pre last question. They win report. Says like seventy percent of global population will be in the CDs by two thousand fifty. I'm mistaken so basically in thirty years than nothing with the coronavirus crisis I see that more and more people talking about moving to private houses somewhere in the rural areas to have their little plot of land. What do you think that trend will be We go into still be wanting to believing in the CDs or the current trend will reverse it his think about it. In nineteen fifty. The worldwide population was around two billion. Five of people. Today as you know we are saving going to civilian Media Nizing. You're more or less we coronavirus and the we will be almost ten million in two thousand. T- accu explain end. The these data could give us a reasonable idea of depression on under unvarying months east. So we consider that we need to eat to drink. Water beetles red wine to leave on the. If we consider that the capacity of the hearse Take time to regenerate we must preserve land and biodiversity. It's not an option and to reduce the pressure on the environment. Then don't see t's not a an option intact and This is a really crucial to promote the concept of the entity Yuban planning and to sing very well and strongly the design of the city to the rational. A concept yes. I think that this is my own. Swirl density is not an option and the technology cool the notre result the facts that we need to keep land to feed ten billion people. And it's not because you need filed the city's at jewel in the city and You know or the Infrastructure Services on to C. T. and we need to keep the London presented. Biology vestige range will be very dependent on infrastructure to having yes some infrastructure the democratic changes the big deal even though now it really looks appealing to have a little plot at little house to be able to go outside even in your own tiny you tiny garden. It's hard to that. Also don't see a for a lot of opportunity for civility for the population to leave depending Your city I will do to preserve the natural in the city as the case in Singapore in Singapore skins out high density. But never never you feel to Haydn Institute really what I sees at Singapore. We'd surreal success. Story it's a because Yuban planning contribute to the development of syncopal industry of Sangha Pool should be inspire love of country and often often. I heard that yes. But Singapore. We'd smalley loan the Weezer. Six billion of Six million people at the end. It's not a question of size. It's a question of ratio of population. If you are a vision and a good ratio of operation to sink your yoga planning you can imagine like a consumers. Union city a lot of development for your country does each not appropriate. Really feel like I should visit because it's hard to mentioned everyone talks about Singapore eight three one I actually approached with this topic was living in Singapore. I already interviewed my classmate Singapore in class mate. Who gave me a lot of background on the governance on House in Newport works on the history and why and how they arrived to this point today in it feels like let's The lace and It's what when I talk about when I explained Singapore when I'm writing a book about syncopal end the best practice of Singapore to share with France in particular people. Think no it's not possible as such success is not possible but yes it's true it's true and it works and senior worlds very well and I'm not here from syncopal. I'm here to talk about sustainable end the spots. I can say also that. Singapore is not really a sustainable because because a lot of sink but if you compare with a the country with the the fact that Singapore has no resources the only resources that Singapore have is the population Anzac fifty years ago. The population was not educated. Like now and in fifty years syncopal her the worldwide place. It's incredible the school a out in the good around. The worldwide chess is incredible but Yuban planning was a base of Singapore. Tell me it was probably the less question I know. We're running to the end of the interview When will you be out? Maybe in two months in French one less question your own book recommendation for Sustainable Urban. Planning what would you suggest? I'm curious about economy. I read a book from the Ed Lesser. I don't know if she knew had lesser is unequaled AMIS sent he wrote a book titled The trillions of the City and district Our great invention makes us richer. Smarter Greener has shown up here and this book is bursting with the inside on policy presided to the vet and as you know. French love debates and I think it's a good amazing. Thanks so much for your Participation on this show thanks for your time and sharing your wisdom. It was very cool. I'm glad we had this wonderful discussion today. On a sustainable. Cd's thank you very much. Thank you I really hope you enjoyed this episode and learn something new today from our guest Estelle. Maybe you got inspired and motivated. Maybe you have questions. If so please do let me know me or tell you can find both of us on Lincoln variously. I would also like to use this opportunity to invite you to check out the other related episodes. The one I mentioned earlier. Orbin sustainability with golf tear young. My classmate from Singapore who takes a seat is in view on Orbin environmental and social development of his home country. I also now read in a book. Called the the new urban crisis how our cities are increasing inequality deepen aggregation and failing the middle class. And what we can do about it by Richard Florida that I'd like to also recommend on this topic while we are waiting for the book stealth to come out in two months as she said other than that. I would also really suggest episode called green inclusive and open economy. Wise Sustainability is not enough interview with Ralph term to get perspective and broader understanding of Modern Day economy and more recent episode. Also that I want to suggest to look to advice to listen to beds the episode from last week called circular economy challenges and systemic change. Wisc Leona how we deliver your from. It climate gig about how the economy will change during and after the covet. Nineteen pandemic what to expect. How can we go? How can we all make it happen? So the greener and more sustainable future to come. I truly hope this. Three episodes or been sustainability with young green inclusive an open economy with Ralph term and Circle. Konami with CLEON. How WE W will get? You inspired to take some positive action. If you like the episode. Please consider subscribe sharing leaving the review in the rate in us on the blood from. You're listening on. We're now available on slightly more than fifty platforms in previous episodes. I asked the listeners to leave this podcast review on chaser in order to raise some funds for meals on wheels of Nineteen Response Fund. Today would like to take a moment to think Andrew Julia Mattie and Victoria for taking their and leave us. A review together retraced two bucks which is still better than nothing. Thank you all again for listening for being with us today and until next time take care. Stay tuned stay healthy and most importantly stay home until next week goodbye.